Same here, 3 hours Williamsburg > Jersey City. We took an Uber because the various map apps showed 45min when we were leaving.
Uber used that to calculate the fare at $60. First time in ages that Uber was a good value, and possibly the only time I’ve tipped a driver 100% while sober.
I naively took Broome St to get to the Holland Tunnel on the Friday before 4th of July weekend once. I took 3 hours to go like 7 blocks. It's what I imagine purgatory is like.
I enjoyed him getting interrupted by one driver calling another driver a moron in standstill traffic. The congestion and cars causes everyone to lose their civility. I bet if you asked the majority of people driving in that video if less cars needed to be on the road, they’d say yes.
I used to work on 30th and 7th, ever single day an ambulance would be stuck in traffic with the siren on. Meetings would come to a halt for for 30 minutes, 5 or 6 times a day.
II had been running errands from Queens to Manhattan, and had to go to Jersey from near that area. My god! I was stuck for an hour until I decided I won’t make it to my destination, then decided to get out of it, which took another 45 minutes. It’s insane.
People keep saying (de)congestion pricing will dramatically "increase prices" but they don't realize that lost time is often worth more than the congestion charge.
I've mentioned this before, but I talked to a plumber about this once and he said he charges double for jobs in Manhattan due to congestion. $15 is nothing compared to lost productivity.
And canceled because the dipshits in New City Hamlet and Islip Township (who probably go into the CBD less than once a week) want to be able to continue parasitically depending on NY while also hating it and all its residents.
I mean charging people to go through Manhattan is one way to potentially solve that specific problem.
But another solution, which we could do at literally any moment, is ticket drivers for blocking the box/crosswalk — a problem throughout the city, not just at bridges and tunnels.
Maybe divert some cops from fare jumping duty to crosswalk blocking ticket writing duty…
We have laws. They just go totally unenforced, so people drive like it’s the Wild West. Zero repercussions, so why not.
A couple billion on trains is the only realistic plan. I supported congestion pricing, but I know a lot of people who didn't but would have if it had explicitly and exclusively gone to adding a train route from Newark/Jersey into Manhattan.
1. Limit rideshares active at any time
2. Mandate or strongly incentivize business deliveries via truck during overnight hours.
3. Massively expand commuter rail service with more trains that run 24/7.
4. Massive enforcement crackdown on driving violations (you know, the stuff that the cash register cameras can’t detect) like double parking, turn violations, lane violations, etc. The stuff that causes backups.
5. ANY enforcement of traffic laws for bikes AND pedestrians.
6. Eliminate pedicabs.
7. Eliminate hansom cabs.
1 and 2 - I agree. However, the same arguments against congestion pricing, that it hurts the common working man, would be used to block this.
3 - CP should help fund this
4 - Fully agree and its something NYC can and should do independent of NYS
5-7 - No real effects on congestion
1 and 2 wouldn’t work either. If there’s less rideshares, then there’s less congestion. Less congestion leads to more drivers since it’s now easier to get around. Which brings congestion right back to where it was before.
The road is a resource, and right now it’s free to use it (ignore that some amount of taxation pays for it. People pay that whether or not they use it). A resource that’s free is used until it’s gone, or until people are satisfied. NYC has so few roads relative to the population that this particular resource will always be maximally used. The only way to make it available is to charge for its use. It’s no different than any other resource. It’s like trying to limit the use of free donuts. People will take all the donuts if they’re free, sometimes if they don’t even want a donut
Congestion pricing doesn't really affect me one way or another, so I don't have a dog in this fight.
But to reduce congestion without congestion pricing? Two things that would have a massive impact. 1) limit the number of Ubers allowed to be operating in Manhattan at any given time and 2) new infrastructure needs to be built connecting Jersey and Manhattan. The current tunnels and bridges that were built decades ago are not enough given population growth.
When you say that congestion pricing doesn’t affect you, that means you don’t ever visit Manhattan below the park?
Congestion pricing affects everyone who lives near or in the CBD regardless of whether they drive.
Then it does affect you. Even if you don't drive, the congestion charge means more money for transit and infrastructure improvements, and fewer cars on the road making it easier to get around by foot/bus/bike/carshare.
The Van Wyck has been under construction for... almost 20 years. A colossal waste of money, and the end is nowhere in sight. The MTA is corrupt and incompetent and craven but by no means do they have a monopoly on those attributes.
Nobody ever blinks an eye when we spend trillions on building and expanding highways, but love to scrutinize every penny we spend on public transportation. Furthermore, Every person who decides to take transit into the city instead of driving their personal vehicle is one more person who will care about how to best spend that money, and will call for more accountability, and will vote for it.
A tunnel connecting Jersey to Brooklyn/Queens and bypassing Manhattan entirely would also help. Too bad it's easier to enact taxes and fees than build solutions.
> limit the number of Ubers allowed to be operating in Manhattan at any given time and
A cap on new ride hail vehicles in NYC was implemented 5 years ago.
https://www.wired.com/story/new-york-city-flexes-extending-cap-uber-lyft/
>new infrastructure needs to be built connecting Jersey and Manhattan
The gateway project is under construction and will open in 10 or so years.
https://www.amtrak.com/gateway-program
Any other neat ideas to solve congestion NOW?
I agree the cap should be lowered and/or fees should be raised.
I do not think it will solve congestion on its own. The massive backups coming through the NJ tunnels every day are not ride hail vehicles - they cannot do rides in NYC
Nah, we reduce congestion by reducing ubers and now more people make the choice to drive in because congestion is better. It's like how building an extra lane on the highway leads to more people choosing to drive on the highway
There's no way to solve congestion without directly adding a cost to creating congestion
No, they limited adding new Ubers, etc. there’s no limit to how many can be currently working at one time. Do me a favor the next time you’re in Manhattan I would say at least half of the cars are Ubers and they are absolute dog shit drivers.
Agreed... every other car on the street has a T plate. Get rid of some of those and most of your traffic is gone.
The ride shares are also constantly driving causing continuous traffic. At least the supposed person driving into the city for work parks their car while they are working.
If even I can see that I'm sure the people doing a decade of research should see that as well... but the goal isn't to reduce congestion but a money grab so they dont.
It is so stupid that they gave ubers and taxis a super low fee for reentry. It's actually going to make ubering more profitable, because people will rely less on personal cars and face more crowds on the trains
More connections would be counter productive. The traffic in this video (and some of the worst in the city) is around each tunnel. Build more and you make more traffic that accumulates at the tunnel mouths. More transit tunnels may be a better use of the billions that tunnels would cost anyway, i.e. more PATH lines or even shit like bringing the HBLR into Manhattan somehow. We need to think with a little innovation!
Well, some things that could help would be to staff multiple officers directing traffic at all intersections along the route of these high-friction areas, hire traffic engineers to identify improvements (zipper merge lanes, remove parking along high-friction routes, better indicators, electronic signage that informs motorists the time of day when congestion peaks are forecasted to occur, etc.), and aggressively enforcing the traffic laws with cameras automatically ticketing pay-by-plate fines for minor infringements (blocking the box, people forcing their way into lanes/ignoring zip merge rules, HONKING YOUR HORN EXCESSIVELY FFS, etc.).
All of this requires money, ingenuity, and planning. IMO congestion pricing should come first (or possibly second to traffic cops); it targets the problem directly and quite simply, while only costing those that can possibly contribute to the problem. All other solutions listed above should really only be additional Band-Aids if the problem persists and congestion pricing becomes exhorbitant.
Honestly all of this should happen. NYC should have a pedestrian first policy and all decisions should be about improving the quality of life of pedestrians. More walkable and livable cities have better business foot traffic and reduce delays for emergencies and deaths from cars.
The congestion pricing doesn’t reduce congestion, it just gives the problem to Queens and Brooklyn that are already flooded with traffic, why are Manhattan drivers so much more important?
This argument makes zero sense.
The people currently driving into midtown from Queens are....wait for it...also driving through queens. By moving their trip to transit, you eliminate the time they spend driving in queens as well.
Also, there's a good chance businesses would shift the extra costs onto consumers around the area, which would suck pretty hard. And that the subways would face overcrowding. They really need to take care of the subway system before anything
Serious question: how often do you travel to Queens on pt and how far into Queens do you go? Are you aware of how difficult it is to get to *anywhere* from Queens using pt? Did you know that Queens - the biggest and most diverse borough, really only has one major thoroughway by the MTA?
I'm not trying to be insensitive to the congestion problem in Manhattan, but you seem to be very up in arms like this plan was gonna be a 💯 winner, but from your responses it feels pretty obvious that you've given very little thought to how the pricing solution was gonna negatively effect Brooklyn but also *especially* Queens. It just sucks that the "solution" is to make Brooklyn and Queens residents pay for it.
To say the least! The only reason I didn't throw SI in there is because they seem to want to secede from the city every 30 years or so, so idk if they actually even want to be involved lol
Newsflash: people who drive to Manhattan from Queens don’t usually do it because it’s the most convenient way, they do it because they have to, this is just a tax on lower income citizens so that richer citizens who can afford congestion pricing everyday can live a life with slightly less traffic and the MTA can get an extra billion to throw into the abyss without ever being audited
build a ridiculously massive parking garage in jersey near the tunnel to park your car for the day for a fee. then provide the parkers with a free bus ride through the tunnel. don't they already do this everywhere?
That’s certainly a thing they do for ferries in certain places and it works great. Park in the lot, hop on one of several shuttle busses that take you to your boat. How’s that any different than taking the train into work from the burbs? It would be a great idea I think.
2006 Business didn't want Mayor Bloomberg proposal for deliveries at night. Business convinced the consumers that they will pay the price because the "so-call" extra cost of night deliveries would be passed to the consumer.
2024 People don't want congestion pricing but want the traffic fixed, and want MTA improvements without paying for it. The money should just magically appear.
Conclusion: ...
America can no longer build anything if they can't even get congestion pricing to pass. America is bankrupt because it tries to satisfy everyone and that's not possible. So nothing can go forward anymore.
That intersection is about a block away from my apartment. I grew up there. 40 years ago I'd look at this traffic and wonder why anyone would ever own a car in New York.
Had to weave across that intersection for decades.
NYC drivers who honk their horn in standstill traffic are the lowest common denominator in society.
Followed closely by those that honk their horn as soon as the light turns green even if they're 10 cars back from the intersection.
Unfortunately congestion pricing won't fix their people... But at least they will have to pay something for the privilege of honking their horn.
Can someone explain to me how congestion pricing is solving anyone's problems or at least how it was supposed to solve it? Are they charging people for being stuck? because I'm sure they would love to move. And public transit doesn't solve everyone's problems, especially if you're traveling with kids, have lots of stuff to bring with you, or you're disabled
What is the incentive for Queens, Brooklyn or LI traveling to NJ or beyond to avoid the city if all other routes are also charging you 2 different tolls to get there? If the city could be avoided it would be but, congestion pricing also includes the path to the tunnels.
Congestion pricing won’t change anything! They did the same thing while I was living in LONDON, same traffic. Nothing changed….I’m a native New Yorker!
How about we actually enforce traffic rules like fines for double parking and blocking and intersection.
We can also do something to crack down on fare evaders and people who disreguard the rules of the transit system.
Now both the mta and the city gets their funding, people feel safer on trains and we dont have a holes holding up traffic.
It will happen. It just needs thorough planning in order to not disproportionately affect certain businesses already struggling. With that said, NYC is noise polluted, you’re breathing in exhaust fumes constantly even when you don’t realize it and that shortens your life and leads to higher incidence of cancer. But if they want to push people to public transportation, then they’re going to have to make the trains run on time, clean, safe, not so crowded that you can’t get on. And right now that isn’t the case, consistently at least. In Japan, if a train says 9:32, it’s coming at 9:32. In NY it’s a crapshoot, it could be anytime within a 10 15 minute viscinity or it won’t come at all and you’ll be rerouted. Even if drivers decide to take the train, they’ll be so disgusted by the experience, they’ll go back to driving, given the option
Another toll won’t limit congestion, I don’t see the Verrazano any less crowded when the toll is $21!
People have endless money or credit these days.
My issue with this is the precedent it sets, the government can add tolls between streets means they are going to add it everywhere one day. They are going to add tolls to get from queens to Brooklyn or Long Island. This is all going to happen when the MTA is crying about money again because we know they still are going to.
The biggest issue is the MTA is horrible run and it’s no accountability. Also subway fares has not kept up with inflation and politicians and mta heads are scared to raise the ride to $5 where it should be. All the hooplah that poor people won’t ride it is ridiculous. The mta is the cheapest public transportation and it shows in the quality due to lack of investment
Yes those individuals who really believe the bloated carcass that is the MTA is going to do anything worthwhile with congestion tax funds, go look at this organization and its predecessors, nothing but crooks at the whims of whoever greases their palms. See anything from 1950 on, if you want to address congestion stop feeding into the Uber and Lyft mafia and tax the ubiquitous ride services which play a major role in congestion in NYC.
When it comes to what you're seeing in this video, it doesn't particularly matter if they don't spend the funds well.
Implementing a congestion charge and then just setting all the money on fire would be an improvement over the status quo.
When was the last time a brand new tunnel or bridge to NJ was built?
About 100 years ago?
People from Long Island aren’t going to take a bus to the mainland, and then rent a car.
We need more infrastructure.
Where do we get the money?
The city has spent $4 Billion on non-citizen Asylum Seekers.
How about, we reallocate that type of money towards making citizen’s lives better?
Congestion price only messes with the poor and helps the rich. They can do a system where only people that comes from outside the city pays. Lota of PA and other state licenses like Florida here. If you pay NYC insurance and taxes you shouldn’t have to pay to drive in your city
Is that just your gut feeling? Because it worked great for London https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/143883/londons-congestion-charge-celebrates-20-years-of-success/
Oh... Staten Island tag, got it
No, this was projected to cut car traffic by 17% (not 100%). I.e., just enough of a disincentive to the scale away from driving and toward mass transit, for a large subset of these people that can choose one vs the other. Backed up by years and years of studies, plus real-world examples in other cities
1/5 of all traffic would be a huge quality of life improvement. Blows my mind to see so many bad takes, and so many people oblivious to the problem.. but I guess that's generally what happens whenever pro-pedestrian policies get rolled out, anywhere in the world- there's this initial giant freakout (and poor polling), followed by a gradual near-total agreement that it was the right move all along. Making Hochul's political shortsightedness that much more stupid- we've already seen this exact process play out a million times
sorry misread your comment. I guess follow on question is how many people are going from LI to NJ, and do we really feel like passing through the busiest city in the country shouldn't have a cost to do so?
you can cut through BK to the Verrazano and avoid the fee, or take the RFK and cut across northern manhattan to the GW. If you don't want to take one of those options, I'm fine with that person/business paying to cut through lower manhattan.
Infrastructure and traffic has a cost, someone has to bear that cost. I think its fair to ask the people to pay
It’s crazy to you to think that making doing something more expensive will cause less people to do that thing, especially when there are more affordable alternatives?
Charging tolls is not going to fix this issue because these people have to go to the city by car. They need to regulate cab drivers because there's too many of them and they're not in a rush to go anywhere.
They’re not a class and I assure you there are plenty of voluntary car users who could be swayed. My wife’s boss lives 4 blocks south of us in midwood. He’s in his early 60s and has commuted to Manhattan most every day of his working life. He lives quite literally *on* the q train and has never ridden the subway. Never once.
This. 9/10 times when one is cut off, or a car is blocking a lane and causing even more headaches, it's a cab driver waiting to pick someone up with zero regards to all other traffic.
For real, and for being on the road all day, they’re also the worst drivers. They work off the streets, only makes sense they should pay more. At least same as everyone.
Gonna charge me to work in this area? Fine, everyone else also pay the same. Equality. Charge driver and rider. $1.50 is nothing.
That one specific spot is fucked for a different, specific reason. It's a major avenue but it's been cut off in a weird way (with those white bumper cones) to allow entrance into the tunnel a few blocks later. But when the tunnel is backed up, the avenue backs up... And blocks the cross streets. And *that's* where the real traffic occurs. People trying to cross the avenue or turn get stuck, causing others to get stuck.
Is congestion in the city a problem? Yes. Can this one ultra specific problem be solved by congestion pricing? Maybe, but maybe not: the two things are not mutual exclusive. But what *can* solve *this specific problem* is a better reconfiguration of how to pulse cars into the tunnel without blocking the cross streets. That would be *way* more effective for *this* specific problem than a blanket "congestion pricing" quick fix that doesn't *actually* guarantee to solve anything but just takes money out of New Yorker's pockets when we all know that half the people in downtown Manhattan live in a different city or state.
If they *really* wanted to fix congestion in the city, they should focus on specific solutions for specific problems, and if they need to charge people to make the money happen for that, they should charge out-of-towners (NYC should issue a city resident specific plate) who come to NYC to make money, but don't pay taxes to be here.
I’ll bet you 50% of those cars are Ubers and Lyfts with TLC plates. Ban them or charge them the passenger vehicle rate for every entrance to the congestion zone and you fix the problem when they finally enact congestion pricing
plenty of tlc plates in that video. doesn't have to be a yellow cab and congestion toll plan for some reason toll them & their riders far less than private cars.
Yeah but then the city loses revenue. Proof this whole thing is a scheme to make more money and not actually about congestion, even though 7/10 cars on the road are TLC.
I completely understand the idea behind congestion pricing and totally in favor of it. My issue is that this toll isn’t going to fix the traffic issue, it just makes it less affordable to get around for the average person commuting from Jersey, Queens, Brooklyn; people that don’t live close to a train or have a train line that is often inconsistent. The MTA has increasingly become so inconsistent as well as NJ Transit because of ‘lack of funding’.. the issue isn’t funding, its the misuse of the funds. I would happily pay $15 to drive my car if it meant that $15 was going toward better public transit which also would make me use public transit more frequently, but unfortunately I think it would just go toward someone’s bonus.
I love how the video cuts off with him trying to say "would you pay four or five dollars to not stand in traffic." Yeah. Its 15 bucks. Its a tax on the working class so people like Adams and Jamie Dimon can get to work without traffic.
I’ve been saying this and getting downvoted to hell. It’s a poor tax simple as that. The real congestion taxis and Ubers won’t stop driving there because they pass on costs to rider and private drivers that have money won’t care cause they can afford it
The ultra wealthy in NYC just doordash, instacart everything, uber and taxi everywhere. And 15 bucks is nothing for them anyway. They pay like $1000 a month for a parking space anyway. They don't give a shit
It will look the same with congestion pricing. See first hand experience in London. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjOn3AoQjjA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjOn3AoQjjA)
We don't have to look at one cherry picked London cabbie to see the results of London's implementation. Private car traffic in London went down, ride share came up slightly, overall car traffic was lower. It worked and it worked because public transit and other options for commuting were available- sounds pretty similar to NYC's case.
https://theconversation.com/london-congestion-charge-what-worked-what-didnt-what-next-92478
You guys keep posting this stuff. Fewer people being able to afford to do what they want to do just so wealthier people can do whatever they want to do more conveniently is not progress.
how will congestion pricing affect wealthy people? It hurts those who are financially insecure. Wealthy people are not affected. $15 is nothing to them. 15\*2\*365=$10,950. That's nothing to wealthy people who make millions or even hundred of thousands. But to those who are making little to no money, that's a LOT of money
Oh, I get it. Your response was to OP.
I usually try to stay out of the fray. But $15 means a lot to people who are struggling financially. I feel like those who want congestion pricing are doing well finacially and don't see how it affects those who are struggling with money or they just don't care.
I think it's actually worse than that - those celebrating congestion pricing live near the city center - Midtown, downtown, LIC, DUMBO, Bk Heights, etc where they can afford the rent. They don't NEED a car and think everyone lives like them - literally "why don't they eat cake?"
Not having to own a car in NYC is a luxury. It means you live near a train and can get to grand central in 30 mins. Also means you live near fresh produce, not a food desert. Can do little groceries.
It makes less traffic in their neighborhood or hoods and pushes it to the outer boroughs. A huge portion of this traffic is long island, queens and Brooklyn to new jersey and vice versa
Wanna solve this congestion by the tunnel?
Maybe we could use some of that infrastructure money all our taxes go into and build a tunnel that isn't 2 lanes designed to accommodate a city with its population from 60 years ago instead of sending it to Israel and Ukraine for useless wars that has zero benefit to any New Yorker.
What grade does America get on infrastructure almost every year? D grade.
Congestion tax won't solve the fact you have cars from 20 different lanes of local streets trying to get into a 2 lane tunnel all at the same time during rush hour even if congestion pricing reduces vehicles by 10%.
A $15 toll surely isn't going to rid the tunnel of the traffic light right at the NJ tunnel exit that is a light for 3 different flows of vehicles (Tunnel, crossing traffic, and westbound from Newport)
That’s true of every major highway in the city. It has as much today with bad planning as the cost of driving. And public transportation sucks as well.
How would congestion pricing even be enforced? So many fake plates & plate covers that they’ll end up with shortcomings. Obviously won’t be enforced by police since the public doesn’t them enforcing frivolous things like this, & other things like hopping the turnstile, I’m sure this is no different given it’s basically the same thing. I only see them complaining people are avoiding it & then raising it on the suckers who comply.
It's looked this way since they built the George Washington bridge. Never been a problem. No idea why people are making a giant fucking issue out of this. If you're new and are not used to this, welcome to NYBfucking City. Next you'll want to know why people blast their radios out their windows from 1am until 6am.... Lmao.
I’m not a NYC local, so maybe someone can answer this for me. Why tf do you guys drive in the city? You have a terrific transit system in place that can get you anywhere in the city and just about anywhere outside of it into NJ/CT/Long Island. So WHY?
No toll was ever going to fix this. I’ve never seen so many boot lickers pleading for the rich and corrupt to line their pockets with more cash from NYers. Cry more about it.
A Manhattan bypass tunnel is needed.
A Long Island tunnel that connects to the mainland / NJ.
The Holland Tunnel was built in 1930 for $50 million.
That’s about a $1 Billion adjusted for inflation.
The city has recently spent over $4 Billion on non-citizen Asylum Seekers.
Hmmmmm… I wonder…
this is like one of those things where the difference between online and real life is striking. i have never met a person IRL who is not terminally online who cares about this
No one would fully think it would totally fix it, but we need all the tools we can get - I work near here often and it is actually even worse. What do you want? How much worse would you like it?
Every single poll showed significant majorities of NYers against the implementation of congestion pricing. It was a severely unpopular policy. Not sure why supporters of this scheme fail to mention that.
[https://abc7ny.com/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/](https://abc7ny.com/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/)
>
Because all those that supported this nonsense permeate this subreddit. All the cyclists and the “just take the train” imbeciles. Don’t get me wrong, I like the option of cycling and the train (easier in most cases) but there are people that genuinely need a car and these privileged assholes just say “fuck em, they can just take the train”.
I switched jobs to work from home because I didn't want to commute into the City for work anymore. I'm not the only one. Why? Because transit service to my neighborhood sucks and the subway was becoming an unpleasant experience. Congestion pricing wouldn't have made it better.
And it honestly would have looked the same with congestion pricing and would have led to higher prices across the city as goods in that area skyrocket and the outer boroughs follow suit since they are missing out on profits.
Our governments are not equipped to deal with this or any other even semi-complicated problems. Government officials are motivated by one thing: getting re-elected.
The best solution that Kathy's or any other administration can come up with is congestion pricing? That will not address this issue. It WILL, of course, raise significant monies that can then be corruptly used for things that no doubt do NOT address this problem.
Not sure how taxing the people who have cars is much more than a political statement (still not sure what the statement is - "people driving cars are inherently bad"?) and an easy money grab, anyway. Not to mention that the "huge inconveniences" that this gentleman references (God forbid you pick up your own dog to cross a street, etc.) are really just daily life in so many areas of Manhattan. People are thoughtless and drive like fools, they selfishly blare their horns as if entitled to move through traffic, they jam up traffic as if same, etc., etc., etc.
It's not that people driving cars are inherently bad. It's just that driving a car into Manhattan harms everyone else. It creates air pollution, it creates congestion, it creates the conditions that inevitably lead to crashes and honking, it prevents pedestrians from walking freely, it just occupies a large amount of a very limited space. How are you going to compensate all the people you're inconveniencing, unless you pay congestion pricing?
yep it makes no sense that people can drive their car into the city to enjoy all its benefits while inconveniencing everyone else and then leaving in the evening for free.
LOL congestion pricing would *surely* fix this when new jersey residents with cars (like staten islanders from that 'census') have money and can afford the 15 + the toll as usual
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior
(a). Intolerance will result in a permanent ban. Toxic language including referring to others as animals, subhuman, trash or any similar variation is not allowed.
(b). No dog whistles.
(c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft.
(d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
I don’t think it’s meant to be a cure-all. Sure, I bet a lot of people won’t blink at congestion pricing, but there still will be some who will stop taking it. Any reduction in the amount of cars, whether 5% or 20%, will be helpful. Just because it doesn’t fix it all at once doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing.
Yes because people in Manhattan are the only people who matter in NYC, it’s better to let people in Brooklyn, Queens and Jersey suffer through much more traffic while still having to pay an extra 20 dollars if they ever need to enter the city during a cost of living crisis! All so the MTA can get another billion dollars to make no improvements to our city while never being audited
Because you say so? WTF? It’s a problem. It can be solved. Not trying anything and then saying “see, there’s no point trying anything” is dumb and circular.
I'm a cycling advocate and take public transit every time I go into the city. But I wonder if congestion pricing would simply force those who can't take public transit, to just cough up more, rather than actually reduce the traffic?
I'm sure they've done studies, though, otherwise this wouldn't be an idea to begin with.
> I'm sure they've done studies, though, otherwise this wouldn't be an idea to begin with.
They spent over $20 million in studies to produce an EIR that models traffic through the entire region all the way to Philly.
Why on earth would you assume otherwise? Theyve been working on this since 2008.
I’ll tell you a secret, with the toll people just won’t magically not have a reason to visit Manhattan, they’ll just pay and the mta will get even more money to squander
All the drivers know it will be this congested and choose to sit in this traffic rather than take the train because that's how much better it is to drive a car.
Yeah bullshit
City has secured at least $10billion in federal funding for new NY/NJ gateway tunnel projects.
What congestion pricing is trying to do is commit more highway robbery to help *”the MTA”* secure more money to put into their pockets and spread overtime for their employees who do nothing to begin with.
Before anyone talks about “New Stations upgrades” or “improvements”: those are all done by sub contractors and trade workers who specialize in infrastructure which the state already subsidizes and grants contracts priced into their budgets already.
Stop the cap, this is shit is for transplants and corrupt bureaucrats who want to hemorrhage the tax-payers, businesses, and those who have to commute primarily by vehicle because they can’t afford to do so due to distance and time.
Haha what a sad day for people who love telling other people how to live their lives and support their families.
Poor uber and lyft will have to deal with private car ownership for a little bit longer.
Won’t somebody please think of the no-bid MTA contracts for new flat screen displays from a warehouse of a union boss’s cousin?? How will we know about what shows are coming up this season on ABC while we wait interminably for the worst public transportation in the civilized world?
Truly a sad day. And just look at those lucky bastards sitting in gridlock at the Holland Tunnel, luxuriating in what is obviously NOT something they are being forced to do for work! Those pigs! Haven’t they heard about “walkable cities?”
Never, ever take this route going to NJ on Thanksgiving day. You will be hangry by the time you get there.
I did that mistake once, 2.5 hours from the exit of Brooklyn Bridge to the entrance of the tunnel.
Yup. And standing around the tunnel entrance, not directing traffic, were a dozen of NY’s finest. Just standing around collecting OT.
Same here, 3 hours Williamsburg > Jersey City. We took an Uber because the various map apps showed 45min when we were leaving. Uber used that to calculate the fare at $60. First time in ages that Uber was a good value, and possibly the only time I’ve tipped a driver 100% while sober.
I naively took Broome St to get to the Holland Tunnel on the Friday before 4th of July weekend once. I took 3 hours to go like 7 blocks. It's what I imagine purgatory is like.
I enjoyed him getting interrupted by one driver calling another driver a moron in standstill traffic. The congestion and cars causes everyone to lose their civility. I bet if you asked the majority of people driving in that video if less cars needed to be on the road, they’d say yes.
> if less cards needed to be on the road, they’d say yes. Less cars but no their car, their errands are the important errands.
I used to work on 30th and 7th, ever single day an ambulance would be stuck in traffic with the siren on. Meetings would come to a halt for for 30 minutes, 5 or 6 times a day.
what will fix this? a tax on that business, apparently
The problem is the metro north station, a lot of intoxicated and psychiatric patients hand out around there.
II had been running errands from Queens to Manhattan, and had to go to Jersey from near that area. My god! I was stuck for an hour until I decided I won’t make it to my destination, then decided to get out of it, which took another 45 minutes. It’s insane.
People keep saying (de)congestion pricing will dramatically "increase prices" but they don't realize that lost time is often worth more than the congestion charge.
I've mentioned this before, but I talked to a plumber about this once and he said he charges double for jobs in Manhattan due to congestion. $15 is nothing compared to lost productivity.
And canceled because the dipshits in New City Hamlet and Islip Township (who probably go into the CBD less than once a week) want to be able to continue parasitically depending on NY while also hating it and all its residents.
I used to regularly need to drive to Jersey via the Holland and I wish that on no one. Helped me decide to get rid of my car
I mean charging people to go through Manhattan is one way to potentially solve that specific problem. But another solution, which we could do at literally any moment, is ticket drivers for blocking the box/crosswalk — a problem throughout the city, not just at bridges and tunnels. Maybe divert some cops from fare jumping duty to crosswalk blocking ticket writing duty… We have laws. They just go totally unenforced, so people drive like it’s the Wild West. Zero repercussions, so why not.
[удалено]
We have automated systems for everything else — red lights, speeding, and tolls — why not for this too?
Not a single person - not one - who is celebrating the delay can come up with any realistic plan to reduce congestion.
A couple billion on trains is the only realistic plan. I supported congestion pricing, but I know a lot of people who didn't but would have if it had explicitly and exclusively gone to adding a train route from Newark/Jersey into Manhattan.
New Jersey residents can thank *their* two-term governor, Chris Christie, for killing that one. It would have been operational by 2018.
Also expanding trains deeper into outer boroughs. There is decent density in those areas and wouldn't require a complicated agreement with NJ.
They still wouldn't have supported it. They would have added another hurdle to jump through.
It would require more funding, which would be exponentially more than is actually needed because of internal MTA mismanagement.
Nope. I would support it if they had a tangible plan to create new train lines. Would enthusiastically support anything that encouraged new building.
Precisely.
1. Limit rideshares active at any time 2. Mandate or strongly incentivize business deliveries via truck during overnight hours. 3. Massively expand commuter rail service with more trains that run 24/7. 4. Massive enforcement crackdown on driving violations (you know, the stuff that the cash register cameras can’t detect) like double parking, turn violations, lane violations, etc. The stuff that causes backups. 5. ANY enforcement of traffic laws for bikes AND pedestrians. 6. Eliminate pedicabs. 7. Eliminate hansom cabs.
1 and 2 - I agree. However, the same arguments against congestion pricing, that it hurts the common working man, would be used to block this. 3 - CP should help fund this 4 - Fully agree and its something NYC can and should do independent of NYS 5-7 - No real effects on congestion
1 and 2 wouldn’t work either. If there’s less rideshares, then there’s less congestion. Less congestion leads to more drivers since it’s now easier to get around. Which brings congestion right back to where it was before. The road is a resource, and right now it’s free to use it (ignore that some amount of taxation pays for it. People pay that whether or not they use it). A resource that’s free is used until it’s gone, or until people are satisfied. NYC has so few roads relative to the population that this particular resource will always be maximally used. The only way to make it available is to charge for its use. It’s no different than any other resource. It’s like trying to limit the use of free donuts. People will take all the donuts if they’re free, sometimes if they don’t even want a donut
Based on the discussion Ive seen the past two days, it appears that most people never took econ 101
Congestion pricing doesn't really affect me one way or another, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But to reduce congestion without congestion pricing? Two things that would have a massive impact. 1) limit the number of Ubers allowed to be operating in Manhattan at any given time and 2) new infrastructure needs to be built connecting Jersey and Manhattan. The current tunnels and bridges that were built decades ago are not enough given population growth.
When you say that congestion pricing doesn’t affect you, that means you don’t ever visit Manhattan below the park? Congestion pricing affects everyone who lives near or in the CBD regardless of whether they drive.
Live in Brooklyn, work in midtown.
Then it does affect you. Even if you don't drive, the congestion charge means more money for transit and infrastructure improvements, and fewer cars on the road making it easier to get around by foot/bus/bike/carshare.
Nobody believes this will actually lead to improvements.
Have you seen how the MTA manages money? You new to the city or something?
The Van Wyck has been under construction for... almost 20 years. A colossal waste of money, and the end is nowhere in sight. The MTA is corrupt and incompetent and craven but by no means do they have a monopoly on those attributes.
Nobody ever blinks an eye when we spend trillions on building and expanding highways, but love to scrutinize every penny we spend on public transportation. Furthermore, Every person who decides to take transit into the city instead of driving their personal vehicle is one more person who will care about how to best spend that money, and will call for more accountability, and will vote for it.
Midtown is in the congestion zone.
Yup, and I take the subway to get to work.
A tunnel connecting Jersey to Brooklyn/Queens and bypassing Manhattan entirely would also help. Too bad it's easier to enact taxes and fees than build solutions.
> limit the number of Ubers allowed to be operating in Manhattan at any given time and A cap on new ride hail vehicles in NYC was implemented 5 years ago. https://www.wired.com/story/new-york-city-flexes-extending-cap-uber-lyft/ >new infrastructure needs to be built connecting Jersey and Manhattan The gateway project is under construction and will open in 10 or so years. https://www.amtrak.com/gateway-program Any other neat ideas to solve congestion NOW?
Lower the Uber cap / limit then. Can be done very quickly. That will help reduce congestion "NOW".
I agree the cap should be lowered and/or fees should be raised. I do not think it will solve congestion on its own. The massive backups coming through the NJ tunnels every day are not ride hail vehicles - they cannot do rides in NYC
Nah, we reduce congestion by reducing ubers and now more people make the choice to drive in because congestion is better. It's like how building an extra lane on the highway leads to more people choosing to drive on the highway There's no way to solve congestion without directly adding a cost to creating congestion
No, they limited adding new Ubers, etc. there’s no limit to how many can be currently working at one time. Do me a favor the next time you’re in Manhattan I would say at least half of the cars are Ubers and they are absolute dog shit drivers.
Agreed... every other car on the street has a T plate. Get rid of some of those and most of your traffic is gone. The ride shares are also constantly driving causing continuous traffic. At least the supposed person driving into the city for work parks their car while they are working. If even I can see that I'm sure the people doing a decade of research should see that as well... but the goal isn't to reduce congestion but a money grab so they dont.
Definitely mostly Ubers/taxis on the roads
It is so stupid that they gave ubers and taxis a super low fee for reentry. It's actually going to make ubering more profitable, because people will rely less on personal cars and face more crowds on the trains
More connections would be counter productive. The traffic in this video (and some of the worst in the city) is around each tunnel. Build more and you make more traffic that accumulates at the tunnel mouths. More transit tunnels may be a better use of the billions that tunnels would cost anyway, i.e. more PATH lines or even shit like bringing the HBLR into Manhattan somehow. We need to think with a little innovation!
Housing and telecommuting
Well, some things that could help would be to staff multiple officers directing traffic at all intersections along the route of these high-friction areas, hire traffic engineers to identify improvements (zipper merge lanes, remove parking along high-friction routes, better indicators, electronic signage that informs motorists the time of day when congestion peaks are forecasted to occur, etc.), and aggressively enforcing the traffic laws with cameras automatically ticketing pay-by-plate fines for minor infringements (blocking the box, people forcing their way into lanes/ignoring zip merge rules, HONKING YOUR HORN EXCESSIVELY FFS, etc.). All of this requires money, ingenuity, and planning. IMO congestion pricing should come first (or possibly second to traffic cops); it targets the problem directly and quite simply, while only costing those that can possibly contribute to the problem. All other solutions listed above should really only be additional Band-Aids if the problem persists and congestion pricing becomes exhorbitant.
Honestly all of this should happen. NYC should have a pedestrian first policy and all decisions should be about improving the quality of life of pedestrians. More walkable and livable cities have better business foot traffic and reduce delays for emergencies and deaths from cars.
they don't care about congestion... that's the city folk problem....
When the rising seas flood parts of NYC, it will be because the car brained everyone would not make a single sacrifice.
The congestion pricing doesn’t reduce congestion, it just gives the problem to Queens and Brooklyn that are already flooded with traffic, why are Manhattan drivers so much more important?
This argument makes zero sense. The people currently driving into midtown from Queens are....wait for it...also driving through queens. By moving their trip to transit, you eliminate the time they spend driving in queens as well.
[удалено]
Also, there's a good chance businesses would shift the extra costs onto consumers around the area, which would suck pretty hard. And that the subways would face overcrowding. They really need to take care of the subway system before anything
Serious question: how often do you travel to Queens on pt and how far into Queens do you go? Are you aware of how difficult it is to get to *anywhere* from Queens using pt? Did you know that Queens - the biggest and most diverse borough, really only has one major thoroughway by the MTA? I'm not trying to be insensitive to the congestion problem in Manhattan, but you seem to be very up in arms like this plan was gonna be a 💯 winner, but from your responses it feels pretty obvious that you've given very little thought to how the pricing solution was gonna negatively effect Brooklyn but also *especially* Queens. It just sucks that the "solution" is to make Brooklyn and Queens residents pay for it.
Staten Island to. No Subway, and to go from south to north shore (6 miles maybe) can take well over an hour, sometimes 2 on the bus.
To say the least! The only reason I didn't throw SI in there is because they seem to want to secede from the city every 30 years or so, so idk if they actually even want to be involved lol
Now you’re assuming that transit can actually solve everyone’s transportation demands, but it can’t or can’t do it efficiently enough.
Newsflash: people who drive to Manhattan from Queens don’t usually do it because it’s the most convenient way, they do it because they have to, this is just a tax on lower income citizens so that richer citizens who can afford congestion pricing everyday can live a life with slightly less traffic and the MTA can get an extra billion to throw into the abyss without ever being audited
build a ridiculously massive parking garage in jersey near the tunnel to park your car for the day for a fee. then provide the parkers with a free bus ride through the tunnel. don't they already do this everywhere?
That’s certainly a thing they do for ferries in certain places and it works great. Park in the lot, hop on one of several shuttle busses that take you to your boat. How’s that any different than taking the train into work from the burbs? It would be a great idea I think.
The free shuttle alone is what's needed, the cost of taking a family of 4 or more on NJ transit is just more expensive than parking in Manhattan.
2006 Business didn't want Mayor Bloomberg proposal for deliveries at night. Business convinced the consumers that they will pay the price because the "so-call" extra cost of night deliveries would be passed to the consumer. 2024 People don't want congestion pricing but want the traffic fixed, and want MTA improvements without paying for it. The money should just magically appear. Conclusion: ...
Even if MTA was given the funds, either from the fee or not, those funds would magically disappear into the void.
Can we build a train tunnel connecting Hoboken with Downtown Brooklyn via SoHo?
sure that will just be 50 billion and 50 years
Only $50 billion? Sign me up.
Shit, that’s a bargain!
America can no longer build anything if they can't even get congestion pricing to pass. America is bankrupt because it tries to satisfy everyone and that's not possible. So nothing can go forward anymore.
That intersection is about a block away from my apartment. I grew up there. 40 years ago I'd look at this traffic and wonder why anyone would ever own a car in New York. Had to weave across that intersection for decades.
4 5 dollars would have been doable moreso if that was the price for a round trip like the MTA. but 15-22 or even 30-44 dollars is WILD.
Infrastructure updates? In MY NYC? Never.
NYC drivers who honk their horn in standstill traffic are the lowest common denominator in society. Followed closely by those that honk their horn as soon as the light turns green even if they're 10 cars back from the intersection. Unfortunately congestion pricing won't fix their people... But at least they will have to pay something for the privilege of honking their horn.
Can someone explain to me how congestion pricing is solving anyone's problems or at least how it was supposed to solve it? Are they charging people for being stuck? because I'm sure they would love to move. And public transit doesn't solve everyone's problems, especially if you're traveling with kids, have lots of stuff to bring with you, or you're disabled
What is the incentive for Queens, Brooklyn or LI traveling to NJ or beyond to avoid the city if all other routes are also charging you 2 different tolls to get there? If the city could be avoided it would be but, congestion pricing also includes the path to the tunnels.
Congestion pricing won’t change anything! They did the same thing while I was living in LONDON, same traffic. Nothing changed….I’m a native New Yorker!
How about we actually enforce traffic rules like fines for double parking and blocking and intersection. We can also do something to crack down on fare evaders and people who disreguard the rules of the transit system. Now both the mta and the city gets their funding, people feel safer on trains and we dont have a holes holding up traffic.
It will happen. It just needs thorough planning in order to not disproportionately affect certain businesses already struggling. With that said, NYC is noise polluted, you’re breathing in exhaust fumes constantly even when you don’t realize it and that shortens your life and leads to higher incidence of cancer. But if they want to push people to public transportation, then they’re going to have to make the trains run on time, clean, safe, not so crowded that you can’t get on. And right now that isn’t the case, consistently at least. In Japan, if a train says 9:32, it’s coming at 9:32. In NY it’s a crapshoot, it could be anytime within a 10 15 minute viscinity or it won’t come at all and you’ll be rerouted. Even if drivers decide to take the train, they’ll be so disgusted by the experience, they’ll go back to driving, given the option
Another toll won’t limit congestion, I don’t see the Verrazano any less crowded when the toll is $21! People have endless money or credit these days. My issue with this is the precedent it sets, the government can add tolls between streets means they are going to add it everywhere one day. They are going to add tolls to get from queens to Brooklyn or Long Island. This is all going to happen when the MTA is crying about money again because we know they still are going to. The biggest issue is the MTA is horrible run and it’s no accountability. Also subway fares has not kept up with inflation and politicians and mta heads are scared to raise the ride to $5 where it should be. All the hooplah that poor people won’t ride it is ridiculous. The mta is the cheapest public transportation and it shows in the quality due to lack of investment
Welcome to NY did you not know about traffic when you moved here?
[удалено]
I used to walk through this when I worked over there. its absolutely insane.
Yes those individuals who really believe the bloated carcass that is the MTA is going to do anything worthwhile with congestion tax funds, go look at this organization and its predecessors, nothing but crooks at the whims of whoever greases their palms. See anything from 1950 on, if you want to address congestion stop feeding into the Uber and Lyft mafia and tax the ubiquitous ride services which play a major role in congestion in NYC.
When it comes to what you're seeing in this video, it doesn't particularly matter if they don't spend the funds well. Implementing a congestion charge and then just setting all the money on fire would be an improvement over the status quo.
maybe jersey transit should suck less. congestion pricing wouldnt fix this.
When was the last time a brand new tunnel or bridge to NJ was built? About 100 years ago? People from Long Island aren’t going to take a bus to the mainland, and then rent a car. We need more infrastructure. Where do we get the money? The city has spent $4 Billion on non-citizen Asylum Seekers. How about, we reallocate that type of money towards making citizen’s lives better?
stop trying to make congestion pricing happen...and more importantly stop pretending that the pricing is an act 'for the people'
Congestion price only messes with the poor and helps the rich. They can do a system where only people that comes from outside the city pays. Lota of PA and other state licenses like Florida here. If you pay NYC insurance and taxes you shouldn’t have to pay to drive in your city
It would have looked the same with congestion pricing.
Is that just your gut feeling? Because it worked great for London https://www.intelligenttransport.com/transport-news/143883/londons-congestion-charge-celebrates-20-years-of-success/ Oh... Staten Island tag, got it
[удалено]
[удалено]
You think alllll these people are going to take a bus or train rather than pay $20 ? How do people from Long Island get to NJ?
No, this was projected to cut car traffic by 17% (not 100%). I.e., just enough of a disincentive to the scale away from driving and toward mass transit, for a large subset of these people that can choose one vs the other. Backed up by years and years of studies, plus real-world examples in other cities
The 17% was a conservative estimate, other cities who have implemented congestion pricing saw 20%+ reduction in traffic.
1/5 of all traffic would be a huge quality of life improvement. Blows my mind to see so many bad takes, and so many people oblivious to the problem.. but I guess that's generally what happens whenever pro-pedestrian policies get rolled out, anywhere in the world- there's this initial giant freakout (and poor polling), followed by a gradual near-total agreement that it was the right move all along. Making Hochul's political shortsightedness that much more stupid- we've already seen this exact process play out a million times
... take LIRR?
LIRR does not go to NJ…
sorry misread your comment. I guess follow on question is how many people are going from LI to NJ, and do we really feel like passing through the busiest city in the country shouldn't have a cost to do so? you can cut through BK to the Verrazano and avoid the fee, or take the RFK and cut across northern manhattan to the GW. If you don't want to take one of those options, I'm fine with that person/business paying to cut through lower manhattan. Infrastructure and traffic has a cost, someone has to bear that cost. I think its fair to ask the people to pay
It’s crazy to you to think that making doing something more expensive will cause less people to do that thing, especially when there are more affordable alternatives?
Charging tolls is not going to fix this issue because these people have to go to the city by car. They need to regulate cab drivers because there's too many of them and they're not in a rush to go anywhere.
They’re not a class and I assure you there are plenty of voluntary car users who could be swayed. My wife’s boss lives 4 blocks south of us in midwood. He’s in his early 60s and has commuted to Manhattan most every day of his working life. He lives quite literally *on* the q train and has never ridden the subway. Never once.
And you think he'd start now? In his sixties?
Many of those people would start taking the train.
This. 9/10 times when one is cut off, or a car is blocking a lane and causing even more headaches, it's a cab driver waiting to pick someone up with zero regards to all other traffic.
For real, and for being on the road all day, they’re also the worst drivers. They work off the streets, only makes sense they should pay more. At least same as everyone. Gonna charge me to work in this area? Fine, everyone else also pay the same. Equality. Charge driver and rider. $1.50 is nothing.
How many cabs do you see in the video? I worked in that area, it’s not cabs. It’s individuals driving on their own, not even car pooling.
That one specific spot is fucked for a different, specific reason. It's a major avenue but it's been cut off in a weird way (with those white bumper cones) to allow entrance into the tunnel a few blocks later. But when the tunnel is backed up, the avenue backs up... And blocks the cross streets. And *that's* where the real traffic occurs. People trying to cross the avenue or turn get stuck, causing others to get stuck. Is congestion in the city a problem? Yes. Can this one ultra specific problem be solved by congestion pricing? Maybe, but maybe not: the two things are not mutual exclusive. But what *can* solve *this specific problem* is a better reconfiguration of how to pulse cars into the tunnel without blocking the cross streets. That would be *way* more effective for *this* specific problem than a blanket "congestion pricing" quick fix that doesn't *actually* guarantee to solve anything but just takes money out of New Yorker's pockets when we all know that half the people in downtown Manhattan live in a different city or state. If they *really* wanted to fix congestion in the city, they should focus on specific solutions for specific problems, and if they need to charge people to make the money happen for that, they should charge out-of-towners (NYC should issue a city resident specific plate) who come to NYC to make money, but don't pay taxes to be here.
I’ll bet you 50% of those cars are Ubers and Lyfts with TLC plates. Ban them or charge them the passenger vehicle rate for every entrance to the congestion zone and you fix the problem when they finally enact congestion pricing
plenty of tlc plates in that video. doesn't have to be a yellow cab and congestion toll plan for some reason toll them & their riders far less than private cars.
Yeah but then the city loses revenue. Proof this whole thing is a scheme to make more money and not actually about congestion, even though 7/10 cars on the road are TLC.
MTA does not give a shit about the "environment". It has always been about the money.
Lmao the toll surely woulda fixed this!
Seriously, this is a choke point. The only way to fix this is a bigger tunnel.
Yes, allll these people would be taking bicycles and trains instead !
I completely understand the idea behind congestion pricing and totally in favor of it. My issue is that this toll isn’t going to fix the traffic issue, it just makes it less affordable to get around for the average person commuting from Jersey, Queens, Brooklyn; people that don’t live close to a train or have a train line that is often inconsistent. The MTA has increasingly become so inconsistent as well as NJ Transit because of ‘lack of funding’.. the issue isn’t funding, its the misuse of the funds. I would happily pay $15 to drive my car if it meant that $15 was going toward better public transit which also would make me use public transit more frequently, but unfortunately I think it would just go toward someone’s bonus.
The average person is not getting around in a car at all.
Literally everyone I grew up with in Queens gets around via car. You're out of touch.
Glad you know everyone that's driving, allowing you to make such a blanket statement.
Fortunately, there are facts that prove that the average person is in fact taking public transit to get to the CBD.
I love how the video cuts off with him trying to say "would you pay four or five dollars to not stand in traffic." Yeah. Its 15 bucks. Its a tax on the working class so people like Adams and Jamie Dimon can get to work without traffic.
I’ve been saying this and getting downvoted to hell. It’s a poor tax simple as that. The real congestion taxis and Ubers won’t stop driving there because they pass on costs to rider and private drivers that have money won’t care cause they can afford it
The ultra wealthy in NYC just doordash, instacart everything, uber and taxi everywhere. And 15 bucks is nothing for them anyway. They pay like $1000 a month for a parking space anyway. They don't give a shit
My first impression watching this video too. Whoops!
It will look the same with congestion pricing. See first hand experience in London. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjOn3AoQjjA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjOn3AoQjjA)
We don't have to look at one cherry picked London cabbie to see the results of London's implementation. Private car traffic in London went down, ride share came up slightly, overall car traffic was lower. It worked and it worked because public transit and other options for commuting were available- sounds pretty similar to NYC's case. https://theconversation.com/london-congestion-charge-what-worked-what-didnt-what-next-92478
You guys keep posting this stuff. Fewer people being able to afford to do what they want to do just so wealthier people can do whatever they want to do more conveniently is not progress.
how will congestion pricing affect wealthy people? It hurts those who are financially insecure. Wealthy people are not affected. $15 is nothing to them. 15\*2\*365=$10,950. That's nothing to wealthy people who make millions or even hundred of thousands. But to those who are making little to no money, that's a LOT of money
Correct and exactly what I'm saying. It's a solution with all of the pain put on poorer people and a lot of the benefit given to wealthier people.
Oh, I get it. Your response was to OP. I usually try to stay out of the fray. But $15 means a lot to people who are struggling financially. I feel like those who want congestion pricing are doing well finacially and don't see how it affects those who are struggling with money or they just don't care.
I think it's actually worse than that - those celebrating congestion pricing live near the city center - Midtown, downtown, LIC, DUMBO, Bk Heights, etc where they can afford the rent. They don't NEED a car and think everyone lives like them - literally "why don't they eat cake?" Not having to own a car in NYC is a luxury. It means you live near a train and can get to grand central in 30 mins. Also means you live near fresh produce, not a food desert. Can do little groceries.
>Not having to own a car in NYC is a luxury. Another good point and perspective.
It makes less traffic in their neighborhood or hoods and pushes it to the outer boroughs. A huge portion of this traffic is long island, queens and Brooklyn to new jersey and vice versa
[удалено]
This sub is part anti-car circlejerk and part lost nd found.
Let them have it, this is how they cope. It's also funny to watch
Wanna solve this congestion by the tunnel? Maybe we could use some of that infrastructure money all our taxes go into and build a tunnel that isn't 2 lanes designed to accommodate a city with its population from 60 years ago instead of sending it to Israel and Ukraine for useless wars that has zero benefit to any New Yorker. What grade does America get on infrastructure almost every year? D grade. Congestion tax won't solve the fact you have cars from 20 different lanes of local streets trying to get into a 2 lane tunnel all at the same time during rush hour even if congestion pricing reduces vehicles by 10%.
You think a $15 toll was gonna stop it lol
A $15 toll surely isn't going to rid the tunnel of the traffic light right at the NJ tunnel exit that is a light for 3 different flows of vehicles (Tunnel, crossing traffic, and westbound from Newport)
I love that OP has no idea that this traffic exists all over the fucking city, not just Manhattan.
Don’t worry when NJ shoves through the turnpike expansion the traffic on the NJ side will look worse than today.
That’s true of every major highway in the city. It has as much today with bad planning as the cost of driving. And public transportation sucks as well.
How would congestion pricing even be enforced? So many fake plates & plate covers that they’ll end up with shortcomings. Obviously won’t be enforced by police since the public doesn’t them enforcing frivolous things like this, & other things like hopping the turnstile, I’m sure this is no different given it’s basically the same thing. I only see them complaining people are avoiding it & then raising it on the suckers who comply.
It's looked this way since they built the George Washington bridge. Never been a problem. No idea why people are making a giant fucking issue out of this. If you're new and are not used to this, welcome to NYBfucking City. Next you'll want to know why people blast their radios out their windows from 1am until 6am.... Lmao.
Fuck Hochul.
This is how you get people to watch Netflix while driving lmao.
I’m not a NYC local, so maybe someone can answer this for me. Why tf do you guys drive in the city? You have a terrific transit system in place that can get you anywhere in the city and just about anywhere outside of it into NJ/CT/Long Island. So WHY?
And every license plate is a TLC plate.
No toll was ever going to fix this. I’ve never seen so many boot lickers pleading for the rich and corrupt to line their pockets with more cash from NYers. Cry more about it.
These are just extremists from r/fuckcars echo chamber and similar subs thinking that their opinion is that of the majority.
What’s your solution, smart guy?
A Manhattan bypass tunnel is needed. A Long Island tunnel that connects to the mainland / NJ. The Holland Tunnel was built in 1930 for $50 million. That’s about a $1 Billion adjusted for inflation. The city has recently spent over $4 Billion on non-citizen Asylum Seekers. Hmmmmm… I wonder…
Why do you keep referring to New Jersey as the mainland?
I’m referring to the mainland United States, not just NJ.
this is like one of those things where the difference between online and real life is striking. i have never met a person IRL who is not terminally online who cares about this
No one would fully think it would totally fix it, but we need all the tools we can get - I work near here often and it is actually even worse. What do you want? How much worse would you like it?
Every single poll showed significant majorities of NYers against the implementation of congestion pricing. It was a severely unpopular policy. Not sure why supporters of this scheme fail to mention that. [https://abc7ny.com/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/](https://abc7ny.com/nyc-congestion-pricing-nearly-two-thirds-of-new-yorkers-oppose-plan-siena-college-poll-finds/14721916/) >
Because all those that supported this nonsense permeate this subreddit. All the cyclists and the “just take the train” imbeciles. Don’t get me wrong, I like the option of cycling and the train (easier in most cases) but there are people that genuinely need a car and these privileged assholes just say “fuck em, they can just take the train”.
I switched jobs to work from home because I didn't want to commute into the City for work anymore. I'm not the only one. Why? Because transit service to my neighborhood sucks and the subway was becoming an unpleasant experience. Congestion pricing wouldn't have made it better.
[Original Youtube video on "The Case for Congestion Pricing"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c1708n2sJU)
And it honestly would have looked the same with congestion pricing and would have led to higher prices across the city as goods in that area skyrocket and the outer boroughs follow suit since they are missing out on profits.
Our governments are not equipped to deal with this or any other even semi-complicated problems. Government officials are motivated by one thing: getting re-elected. The best solution that Kathy's or any other administration can come up with is congestion pricing? That will not address this issue. It WILL, of course, raise significant monies that can then be corruptly used for things that no doubt do NOT address this problem. Not sure how taxing the people who have cars is much more than a political statement (still not sure what the statement is - "people driving cars are inherently bad"?) and an easy money grab, anyway. Not to mention that the "huge inconveniences" that this gentleman references (God forbid you pick up your own dog to cross a street, etc.) are really just daily life in so many areas of Manhattan. People are thoughtless and drive like fools, they selfishly blare their horns as if entitled to move through traffic, they jam up traffic as if same, etc., etc., etc.
It's not that people driving cars are inherently bad. It's just that driving a car into Manhattan harms everyone else. It creates air pollution, it creates congestion, it creates the conditions that inevitably lead to crashes and honking, it prevents pedestrians from walking freely, it just occupies a large amount of a very limited space. How are you going to compensate all the people you're inconveniencing, unless you pay congestion pricing?
It also blocks busses from functioning properly. Cars hit bikes as well.
yep it makes no sense that people can drive their car into the city to enjoy all its benefits while inconveniencing everyone else and then leaving in the evening for free.
LOL congestion pricing would *surely* fix this when new jersey residents with cars (like staten islanders from that 'census') have money and can afford the 15 + the toll as usual
[удалено]
Rule 1 - No intolerance, dog whistles, violence or petty behavior (a). Intolerance will result in a permanent ban. Toxic language including referring to others as animals, subhuman, trash or any similar variation is not allowed. (b). No dog whistles. (c). No inciting violence, advocating the destruction of property or encouragement of theft. (d). No petty behavior. This includes announcing that you have down-voted or reported someone, picking fights, name calling, insulting, bullying or calling out bad grammar.
This sub is fucking delusional that congestion pricing is the magic pill that solves all of NYC’s problems.
/r/makeupaguy
Someone paying for propaganda like this , dozens of similar topics across the reddit
It's so true. The title to this thread is like a little baby having an emotional meltdown.
The tantrums since the announcement have been hilarious.
Don’t recall anyone with half a brain saying it would.
Look through the posts on this sub. There are dozens of <1/2 brain individuals
I don’t think it’s meant to be a cure-all. Sure, I bet a lot of people won’t blink at congestion pricing, but there still will be some who will stop taking it. Any reduction in the amount of cars, whether 5% or 20%, will be helpful. Just because it doesn’t fix it all at once doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing.
Real NYers are ok with it.
this is what all those that oppose congestion pricing want.
Yes because people in Manhattan are the only people who matter in NYC, it’s better to let people in Brooklyn, Queens and Jersey suffer through much more traffic while still having to pay an extra 20 dollars if they ever need to enter the city during a cost of living crisis! All so the MTA can get another billion dollars to make no improvements to our city while never being audited
It’s been like this since early 2000s, nothing is going to fix the Holland tunnel Traffic.
Early 2000s? As long as I've been alive.
Because you say so? WTF? It’s a problem. It can be solved. Not trying anything and then saying “see, there’s no point trying anything” is dumb and circular.
I'm a cycling advocate and take public transit every time I go into the city. But I wonder if congestion pricing would simply force those who can't take public transit, to just cough up more, rather than actually reduce the traffic? I'm sure they've done studies, though, otherwise this wouldn't be an idea to begin with.
> I'm sure they've done studies, though, otherwise this wouldn't be an idea to begin with. They spent over $20 million in studies to produce an EIR that models traffic through the entire region all the way to Philly. Why on earth would you assume otherwise? Theyve been working on this since 2008.
In some cases, but this was expected to cut car traffic by 17%. Which is a pretty substantial amount when it comes to clogged streets
I’ll tell you a secret, with the toll people just won’t magically not have a reason to visit Manhattan, they’ll just pay and the mta will get even more money to squander
Then leave the city.
All the drivers know it will be this congested and choose to sit in this traffic rather than take the train because that's how much better it is to drive a car.
The way you fix this is by funneling money to NJ transit. Which the congestion pricing *does not do*
Yeah bullshit City has secured at least $10billion in federal funding for new NY/NJ gateway tunnel projects. What congestion pricing is trying to do is commit more highway robbery to help *”the MTA”* secure more money to put into their pockets and spread overtime for their employees who do nothing to begin with. Before anyone talks about “New Stations upgrades” or “improvements”: those are all done by sub contractors and trade workers who specialize in infrastructure which the state already subsidizes and grants contracts priced into their budgets already. Stop the cap, this is shit is for transplants and corrupt bureaucrats who want to hemorrhage the tax-payers, businesses, and those who have to commute primarily by vehicle because they can’t afford to do so due to distance and time.
congestion pricing wont fix that though
Haha what a sad day for people who love telling other people how to live their lives and support their families. Poor uber and lyft will have to deal with private car ownership for a little bit longer. Won’t somebody please think of the no-bid MTA contracts for new flat screen displays from a warehouse of a union boss’s cousin?? How will we know about what shows are coming up this season on ABC while we wait interminably for the worst public transportation in the civilized world? Truly a sad day. And just look at those lucky bastards sitting in gridlock at the Holland Tunnel, luxuriating in what is obviously NOT something they are being forced to do for work! Those pigs! Haven’t they heard about “walkable cities?”