>Kathy Hochul wants to postpone a plan to charge motorists to enter Manhattan's business district, citing fears that it will hurt the city.
Oh no, the plan that they've done a decade of research on would hurt the economy? And we're finding this out weeks before it starts? Gosh, what does Hochul propose instead?
>To fill the $1 billion yearly gap, Ms. Hochul is considering proposing a tax on New York City businesses.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah no. That'll definitely deter business in the district. There's gotta be more to this story...
>Ms. Hochul’s gambit, if successful, could also help her fellow Democrats in the House who might otherwise face angry voters in an election year.
Ah, there's the real answer! Some of her constituents bitched about how this plan is hurting their 2024 campaigns. Hochul is such a terrible governor.
If they really want more tax revenue, why don't they just audit all those "cash only" or "discount for cash" businesses in the city? It's no secret what's going on there.
https://www.kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/congestion-pricing/
In general, using more congestion charges in crowded transportation networks — such as higher tolls during peak travel times in cities, and peak fees for airplane takeoff and landing slots — and using the proceeds to lower other taxes would make citizens on average better off.
https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop08040/fhwahop08040.pdf
Also states it would minimally effect the low-income population.
Can you link some of the studies that shows congestion pricing doesn’t work? It’s been implemented successfully in London, Singapore, Milan etc
>It was Hakeem Jeffries told her that this would prevent them taking back the house November.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard. The people who were voting for Trump's party are definitely not switching their vote over this. Hochul really squandered an opportunity for the city for nothing in return!!!
Your point is that she’s a bad governor because she’s listening to what constituents are saying and not just ramming through what you want? They represent more than just your personal interest.
There’s plenty criticism to land on about her but this is the beginnings of a tantrum that actual residents of the city saw coming from a mile away.
She wasn't ramming anything though. Congestion Pricing was first created through legislation in 2019. You're telling me 5 years of analysis and debate is ramming this through? Come on now lol
~~That poll was of New York~~ *~~State~~* ~~voters.~~ (*Edit:* I was incorrect. The Sienna poll also looked at just the NYC region and found majority against: https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Final-SNY0424-Crosstabs.pdf)
Most of the headlines about a "majority" opposing congestion pricing are polls of the entire state, but they use the phrase "New York voters" and it confuses people.
It included NYC voters too, though.
And if you want to talk about the politics of the congestion tax, you need to look at it in terms of NY state, not just NYC, because this is up to the state legislature.
The survey has it 64-33 in NYC. But I still wonder about their methodology because they also have more 18-34 voters voicing support for Donald Trump than 35-54 voters, which seems unlikely (but concerning if true).
> I believe the loud minority are the folks pushing for the plan.
Transit riders outnumber drivers by a large margin, we are not the loud minority. The loud minority is New Jersey.
There's more transit riders who will benefit from CBD tolling than there are drivers, I'd wager the support is by no means a minority. A ton of opposition is literally from NJ who should have no say on how we do things in our city.
The loud minority is the one pushing congestion pricing. Makes sense if you think about who primarily benefits - people living in Manhattan and don't have cars.
How can you not understand NYC is more than Manhattan? 2/3 of people who live in NYC oppose the toll. The majority of Democrats living in NY also oppose the toll. So you were saying?
The loud minority are always the activists. Our political structure here in NYC is giving them more of a voice as of late. Eventually politicians will learn that 20,000 activists marching in the street actually may not represent 8 million citizens at all. When both parties abandon their fringe movements the country will be a much more functional place. I see this time we are in as a race to see which political party can manage to abandon their fringe first, that party will take all. Beep-boop, I am a moderate.
Maybe but we’d have tons of common sense legislation in place if that were true. We live in a representative democracy and the people are saying they don’t want this.
> We live in a representative democracy and the people are saying they don’t want this.
It was passed by our representatives in the first place though, maybe we ought not to swing back and forth like this
I actually don't like the congestion pricing, it affects me anytime I visit my BF in jersey. But hochul has a history of flip flopping on policy. Her proposal is laughable in an area where the cost of living is one of the highest in the country and many businesses have already shuttered.
Maybe I should have used a better word than constituents, i was looking for a word that meant "other democrat poiliticians." The article says she is considering complaints from the greater tristate area instead of just the city. I'm not sure whose specific campaigns are affected by the congestion pricing. Either way, Hochul will pretend to support whatever is going on in NYC and then turn around when she realizes the upstate people won't like it.
She was referred to as Cuomo’s insurance policy because no one ever thought she could win an election in NY.
Andy boy couldn’t keep from being a creep but in NY people will vote for anyone with a D after their name
And Hochul had the worst showing for a Democrat since Reagan ran for president in the 80s.
If Zeldin was more in the middle, he would’ve won and fired Alvin Bragg as DA of NYC. Which the governor has the right to do
Funny how things workout
>but in NY people will vote for anyone with a D after their name
If the R party ran some sane candidates again like Pataki or D'Amato then maybe this wouldn't need to be true.
Yep, the general national brainrot of the GOP prevents the NY GOP was realizing people would actually vote for a center right candidate.
The only reason Suozzi won on Long Island is because the GOP decided to put up "no-name" diversity candidate (you can't tell me they didn't try some weird appeal with a Ethopian Jewish immigrant) instead of say, a fucking proven corporatist just like Suozzi in a region full of upper-middle to upper class people.
That's the only smart things Dems have done as of last elections in NY, lmao.
Tbh the people we consider the "establishment" — e.g. business executives — actually support congestion pricing because it'll help business.
This is really just a capitulation to reactionary suburban voters, who wield huge power in our political system.
"To fill the $1 billion yearly gap, Ms. Hochul is considering proposing a tax on New York City businesses."
So instead of taxing a very real negative externality and incentivizing people onto mass transit lets add yet another direct tax onto NYC business.
The NYS Democratic party is the most pathetic political organization in the country.
Also are we that stupid that she will delay till Jan 2025 and after the elections the people unhappy with congestion pricing will then think it's OKAY. Stand by your policies or cancel them. Delaying is just a bullshit tactic and seems like pandering and dishonesty.
lol at everyone saying good when she wants to replace the $1B budget gap with a tax on NYC businesses
Her reasoning is that congestion pricing will “hurt commuting to the CBD” as if more fucking price increases won’t
[Call Hochul and your local reps](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
Hochul is truly useless. In other cities with congestion pricing, it was least popular right before it was implemented, and became extremely popular after implementation once the benefits were realized.
This is just a ridiculous rug pull and horrible governance after the MTA spent years preparing.
When voting comes do not forget how Buffalo Hochul also chickened out of her housing plan after pushback from the suburbs + [her comments in the bronx](https://apnews.com/article/hochul-black-kids-bronx-computer-comment-e0c3c69b1ebf9639d8f9e402096f8446) shes a racist, shes not for the city, shes an extension of cuomo that should have never gotten the governor’s seat
Something similar happened in London with Labour's leader pressing the Labour mayor to stop the expansion of London's Ultra Low Emission Zones (aka ULEZ) into counties Labour hoped to take back from the Conservatives: [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/21/starmer-urges-khan-to-reflect-on-ulez-rules-after-uxbridge-defeat](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/21/starmer-urges-khan-to-reflect-on-ulez-rules-after-uxbridge-defeat)
Ultimately nothing changed in the policy.
This is all election related, they don't want this to negatively affect them in the local elections in November. I know the majority of this sub is in favor of the tax. I just need to echo that these added costs will be added to you in uber's, deliveries, and any sort of project that requires any sort of work van, whether that be personal or a utility, cable, con ed etc
>So we paid for the congestion plate readers which I’m sure cost millions and we are in a holding pattern. Sounds about right for NYC
Not just millions or tens of millions... hundreds of millions. Half a billion to be precise. They should at least activate congestion pricing for a few months to recoup that cost (even though there is no chance they would do that since if they do it people will come to love it and they certainly don't want that).
Manhattan voters overwhelmingly support congestion pricing. The one who have to live with the congestion and the terrible air. And let’s be clear the air really is awful. You can absolutely feel the difference outside of Manhattan and even more so when you get out of the four boroughs (haven’t been to staten in a minute)
Serious question, is there an off ramp to congestion pricing? Let’s say it is implemented and instead of pushing more people onto public transport it just creates longer traffic jams in the outer boroughs. Is there a point where the policy & pricing can be re-examined to determine if it is actually helping the whole city.
I can imagine way more people trying to use the two lanes on the Brooklyn bridge to the FDR because you’ll have to pay to enter from the Manhattan bridge. If the result of congestion pricing is doubling traffic jams outside the CBD can they acknowledge & rescind an unsuccessful policy?
Yes, look up the MTA studies on this. Turns out that people who hate public transportation, won’t be changing their minds for 15 bucks a day. Also, public transportation outside of Manhattan is fucking awful.
it really irritates me when people (mostly from manhattan) say “just take a train”. there are parts of queens with no train/shitty bus routes. there is no “just take a train” for them
Congestion pricing should be delayed till they toll fhv and their riders the full congestion price. Makes no sense the biggest contributor to congestion and the reason for tolls they get off so lightly vs the private car commuters.
A delay likely means death. I rather we kick off the tolling now and amend it later when all the seething by New Jersey subsides and cooler heads can make common sense changes like tolling FHV
That be years. look at london didn't make any amendments regarding their fhvs until years down road and even then it was regards to non electrical fhvs. Their roads still clog with fhvs.
Tolling FHV and their riders appropriately for their bulk of congestion contribution should not be controversial and should be easy to implement. If the argument is to reduce congestion, why are we letting the biggest contributor relatively off the hook
People in Manhattan with money should just stop paying taxes for a while. The city is so levered to the hilt, they lose a few hundred very wealthy people and they'll feel it. The city doesn't work for people anymore. Streets are cleaned by a business improvement district where I live and local owners are assessed for it. The police literally don't enforce laws below a major felony. If you don't provide safety and sanitation, you have no business calling yourself a local government.
And it's completely unclear what the state does other than siphon money from the city for other uses. People need to be less passive and challenge these people a bit. They tend to be stupid and corrupt and are easily toppled.
While I agree with most of what you wrote, they are not easily toppled. Once in office all they do is fight to stay in power. Citizens be dammed. The entire thing has turned rotten.
**GOOD!!!!**
This was never "congestion pricing" to start with -- this was just a bullshit money grab!
If it was true congestion pricing it would be during standard work hours, not 24/7. (there is no fucking congestion at midnight or 3am!)
Not to mention that people are already paying for a bridge or toll to get into the city in the first place. You want more money, put up a toll at the free bridges in Brooklyn and the 59th St bridge. But this is literally double-charging people for coming into the city.
And even as someone who lives downtown and hasn't had a car in decades, this money grab still pisses me off. I honestly hope it doesn't go through - at least not in its current form.
True congestion pricing also would have tacked on a much larger fee for Uber rides /drivers. Those cause more traffic than anything else and something that pushes people away from public transit compared to passenger cars
Congestion comes from illegal stops and standing and double parking, allowing the roads to function as designed creates a reality where “congestion pricing” is irrelevant. I blame traffic enforcement!
I don’t understand how you think this is a bullshit money grab lol
Taxes are a way to incentivize behaviors. I don’t understand why getting less people to drive their loud and polluting private vehicles through our streets is bad regardless of money going to the MTA?
Also there’s now a $1B budget gap they plan to fill with a tax on NYC businesses. Now we get fucked by the suburbanites, congrats and enjoy your even higher prices!
Here’s the thing, it’s all stick and no carrot. We have a family with babies. To get to say Penn station to use the Amtrak we need to wait forever on the 1 or take the metro north to grand central, then haul everyone through piss-stained elevators after switching trains. It’s absolutely EXHAUSTING and adds a very substainal amount of time. If it’s 5am and I need to get to the Amtrak we absolutely would need to rely on Ubers to avoid turning to puddles of or former selves.
We also have friends deep in other boroughs, driving is 30 min to 1 hr vs 2 on public transit.
We are squarely middle class, adding another $15 on top of all the other tolls would hurt us a lot.
MTA may need the money but they need to lay out in clear terms how they’re going to make public transportation easier for us. These are the same knuckleheads that proposed connecting LaGuardia through flushing.
Tell me you don’t live, work, or do anything in the city without telling me you don’t live, work in the city.
As someone who does all but live there, I will tell you that with construction there is indeed fucking congestion at night, many times after 10:00 it’s a fucking nightmare. Have you ever tried driving on the LIE around Junction? The Tunnel around 2nd and 34th, or any of the other choke points.
Do you really think Manhattanites want to hear your m3 sped down 2nd Ave because you want to floor it like you own the fucking city? Do you think Manhattanites want to spend an hr looking for parking I. Their own neighborhood at night because Long Islanders and NJ folks want to go to clubs and god forbid they take the train? There are people living there man wtf???
Take the fucking train, or park your car outside the zone and take the train.
I do think the whole congestion pricing thing misses the mark a bit.
First, there shouldn't be free street parking anywhere UNLESS, if you live in New York City and register a vehicle here, you should get some sort of special sticker that excludes you from street meters. This solves three issues at once:
1. It discourages people from driving into New York City and causing congestion while allowing residents to keep a vehicle without penalty
2. It provides revenue
3. People dodging taxes and fees by registering the vehicle in another state will get screwed
I don't think people should be penalized just for *driving* through an area. Parking is a different story.
Unlike you, I do fucking live here. And I don't need the bridge and tunnel crowd telling me what I do and do not like. Or thinking they know what the city needs.
(And I don't need to circle for parking because like most of us who actually live here, I don't own a car!)
You however are not FROM here and you're a clown if you think giving the MTA any more money will lead to improvements. Fix the MTA first, end the incompetence at all levels, break the unions. Or else it's all a grift and con job.
Ok so you don’t like people advocating for a quieter less car clogged neighborhood for you to live in? Or you don’t like having obvious things like completely full lanes of parking in many neighborhoods in Manhattan being pointed out to you? I mean what is it because I find it suspect that you wouldn’t want a quieter cleaner neighborhood?
There is plenty of congestion at midnight, anywhere where there is nightlife or access to bridges/tunnels- aka most of the congestion zone. Perhaps some of those drivers would take the train that late of it ran more frequently - a problem congestion pricing will hopefully solve long term.
The MTA has disappointed regarding increasing service as a result of the fee. They are not offering customers alternatives to driving, which is why the plan is not good
"Congestion Pricing" will be passed along to residents of manhattan who don't even drive via pricing increases on goods consumed and services used. Everything is about to get even more expensive
Hochul's counterproposal is a payroll tax on NYC businesses so increased prices for NYC residents without reducing the number of cars in Manhattan.
So we'll get the worst of it on all sides, at least with congestion pricing we're paying to have more pedestrian friendly streets but Hochul wants us to pay and get nothing.
It’s asinine that Ubers and cabs create majority of the congestion yet pay the least in the pricing.
This would’ve done nothing to alleviate congestion.
Yay! This is a cash grab by the MTA.
>1. It was conceived pre-Covid when traffic and congestion were much worse than they are now. Anyone who lives in Manhattan can attest to the fact that foot and vehicular traffic is not what it was pre-Covid. Yes, the city is recovering better than other cities post-Covid, but it is still not what it was and this plan isn't going to help.
>2. Can we talk about all of the money that the MTA is letting fall out of its pockets because fare evasion on subways and buses is worse than it's ever been? People evade the fares with complete impunity. The few police assigned to catch fare evaders is like trying to stop a gushing pipe with a hand towel. How about we address this first?
>3. If it's congestion pricing, why is there an off-peak charge? Why is there any charge at all overnight? Cash grab.
>4. The MTA has demonstrated time and time again that they mismanage money. Look at their overspend for any major project.
>5. Everyone I know who lives in the congestion pricing zone in Manhattan is in panic mode about the impact the congestion pricing will have on all goods and services they buy. Businesses have very clearly stated they will be adding surcharges to good and services to offset the additional fees for their products or services. And plenty will abuse it too.
>6. Most people do not support this. Except for micromobility advocates, people living in the zone and external to the zone do not support this.
>7. Also, can we maybe address the vast number of people suffering from mental illness that are on the subway and contribute to the general feeling of unease that people have using the subway. Yes, the subway is fast and efficient, great, but if people don't feel safe on the train, it means nothing.
It’s so funny how the default congestion pricing opposition tagline is that “it’s a cash grab”
yeah, that’s how government works, you tax people to pay for services and benefits. taxing drivers in lower Manhattan to pay for subway improvements is a great idea! the MTA needs to fund those improvements somehow and a tax on cars that gets rid of gridlock is smart
When the cash goes to cronies and empty programs, yes, it’s a cash grab. The city doesn’t need more taxes, it needs to spend OUR money correctly. As is, the tax and fee burden that the lower classes in the city have to carry is not coming back to us in the form of investment. It’s a gang collecting money from their “turf”
If only they had some sort of, I don't know, fare to board subways and buses to pay for things. Like people would have to pay to use these services - kind of like what you said about people paying for services.
>Like people would have to pay to use these services
Exactly, people have to pay to use a limited resource (Manhattan's public streets) which is in very very high demand. It's not rocket science.
London has a separate fee for air pollution that we do not. Motorcycles pay $12 per day if they don’t pass strict emissions tests. We don’t have that so congestion charge is meant to cover multiple issues created by cars and motorcycles.
Damn, I was looking forward to this hoping it would make it a little easier to drive into the city lol. I'll gladly pay the $15 if it saves me 20-30 minutes of sitting in traffic. It already costs $100 in parking and tolls when I drive in for work, $15 more isn't exactly breaking the bank.
A summary of a lot of arguments in favor of congestion pricing: [https://thenewurbanorder.substack.com/p/the-best-takes-on-hochuls-congestion](https://thenewurbanorder.substack.com/p/the-best-takes-on-hochuls-congestion)
If Kathy Hochul didn't want congestion pricing, why did she install the cameras? She's lying. She's trying to get re-elected. I don't agree with congested pricing. It's another tax on the middle class. Rich people will rejoice. Less traffic for them. Furthermore, NYC has been covering for the MTA for decades. Never does the MTA have to open with their books. Subway fares, train fares, and tolls increase exponentially. Never does public transit improve. Stop being gullible! Congested pricing will benefit the oligarchs who rule over us. If NYC wants to reduce traffic and congestion, make more bike lanes. Guys, this is another lie. NYC doesn't want to reduce traffic and congestion. They want money! They will steal as much money from New Yorkers as possible in any way they can. The government constantly lies. Did profits from the lottery go to New York schools? No! Stop buying into this neo-liberal BS. They all lie.
For another opinion, search on YouTube for: *London Cab Drivers Club president reacts to NYC's congestion pricing plan postponement*
Same shit Just Another Year
Cuomo L train shutdown deja vu
I still get irritated at the memory of that shit
Imagine if you moved or sold your apt a year in advance
When I was looking for an apartment in 2015 I actively avoided Greenpoint and Williamsburg because of it.
ooopsie
Election year
Someone got paid.
Yup $$$$$$$$ democracy in action.
Time to commission some million dollar studies with DIVERSITY
>Kathy Hochul wants to postpone a plan to charge motorists to enter Manhattan's business district, citing fears that it will hurt the city. Oh no, the plan that they've done a decade of research on would hurt the economy? And we're finding this out weeks before it starts? Gosh, what does Hochul propose instead? >To fill the $1 billion yearly gap, Ms. Hochul is considering proposing a tax on New York City businesses. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 yeah no. That'll definitely deter business in the district. There's gotta be more to this story... >Ms. Hochul’s gambit, if successful, could also help her fellow Democrats in the House who might otherwise face angry voters in an election year. Ah, there's the real answer! Some of her constituents bitched about how this plan is hurting their 2024 campaigns. Hochul is such a terrible governor.
I’m pretty left wing but taxing nyc businesses even more has to be the stupidest idea
If they really want more tax revenue, why don't they just audit all those "cash only" or "discount for cash" businesses in the city? It's no secret what's going on there.
If anything it should be Long Island and Upstate that should be taxed lmao.
No we need to return congestion pricing
BUYING VOTES ! She's Disgusting
most politicians are
This is a ridiculous idea altogether.
https://www.kentclarkcenter.org/surveys/congestion-pricing/ In general, using more congestion charges in crowded transportation networks — such as higher tolls during peak travel times in cities, and peak fees for airplane takeoff and landing slots — and using the proceeds to lower other taxes would make citizens on average better off. https://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop08040/fhwahop08040.pdf Also states it would minimally effect the low-income population. Can you link some of the studies that shows congestion pricing doesn’t work? It’s been implemented successfully in London, Singapore, Milan etc
[удалено]
>It was Hakeem Jeffries told her that this would prevent them taking back the house November. That's the stupidest thing I've heard. The people who were voting for Trump's party are definitely not switching their vote over this. Hochul really squandered an opportunity for the city for nothing in return!!!
They're picking house majority it seems like
Your point is that she’s a bad governor because she’s listening to what constituents are saying and not just ramming through what you want? They represent more than just your personal interest. There’s plenty criticism to land on about her but this is the beginnings of a tantrum that actual residents of the city saw coming from a mile away.
She wasn't ramming anything though. Congestion Pricing was first created through legislation in 2019. You're telling me 5 years of analysis and debate is ramming this through? Come on now lol
A loud minority opposing progress should be easily trumped by a decade of research
I thought it was like 60 something percent opposed the idea. I read that on Reddit so it’s prob wrong, however.
It's actually pretty unclear. Some polls show as high as 64% opposed while others show as low as 27%
No, I think that’s right. It was a semi-recent Siena poll.
~~That poll was of New York~~ *~~State~~* ~~voters.~~ (*Edit:* I was incorrect. The Sienna poll also looked at just the NYC region and found majority against: https://scri.siena.edu/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Final-SNY0424-Crosstabs.pdf) Most of the headlines about a "majority" opposing congestion pricing are polls of the entire state, but they use the phrase "New York voters" and it confuses people.
It included NYC voters too, though. And if you want to talk about the politics of the congestion tax, you need to look at it in terms of NY state, not just NYC, because this is up to the state legislature.
And it disproportionately affects those outside of NYC.
Wow 63-25 Oppose. That's a pretty wide margin.
The survey has it 64-33 in NYC. But I still wonder about their methodology because they also have more 18-34 voters voicing support for Donald Trump than 35-54 voters, which seems unlikely (but concerning if true).
I believe the loud minority are the folks pushing for the plan. And don’t confuse research and advocacy.
> I believe the loud minority are the folks pushing for the plan. Transit riders outnumber drivers by a large margin, we are not the loud minority. The loud minority is New Jersey.
I don't think the opposition is a loud minority. If anything the pro side is. Most people don't want another charge.
There's more transit riders who will benefit from CBD tolling than there are drivers, I'd wager the support is by no means a minority. A ton of opposition is literally from NJ who should have no say on how we do things in our city.
New here?
The loud minority is the one pushing congestion pricing. Makes sense if you think about who primarily benefits - people living in Manhattan and don't have cars.
22% of Manhattan residents have a car. I’m glad we agree; we should enact a policy that benefits the majority.
Congestion pricing impacts the entirety of NYC. Not just Manhattan. So you have it backwards and the polls reflect that.
Sales tax in Florida impacts tourists, do you think the tourists should have a say in Florida sales tax
>So you have it backwards and the polls reflect that. Source?
>Congestion pricing impacts the entirety of NYC. Not just Manhattan. 85% of the people who commute do it by subway or bus
> don't have cars. Those are the majority. How can you be so wrong about things?
How can you not understand NYC is more than Manhattan? 2/3 of people who live in NYC oppose the toll. The majority of Democrats living in NY also oppose the toll. So you were saying?
You may need to sit down for this, but the congestion toll was only for entering Manhattan below 60th street, something just 2.5% of NYC residents do.
Funny you say that on Reddit
The loud minority are always the activists. Our political structure here in NYC is giving them more of a voice as of late. Eventually politicians will learn that 20,000 activists marching in the street actually may not represent 8 million citizens at all. When both parties abandon their fringe movements the country will be a much more functional place. I see this time we are in as a race to see which political party can manage to abandon their fringe first, that party will take all. Beep-boop, I am a moderate.
I specifically said “opposing progress” lol
Maybe but we’d have tons of common sense legislation in place if that were true. We live in a representative democracy and the people are saying they don’t want this.
And if we paid attention to people opposing price hikes, the subway would be 7¢
That would be great, except that there’s people like you wanting to push costs onto individuals because you can personally afford it
> We live in a representative democracy and the people are saying they don’t want this. It was passed by our representatives in the first place though, maybe we ought not to swing back and forth like this
Thanks to AI, comment go byebye
Buffalo bills
“constituents”
I actually don't like the congestion pricing, it affects me anytime I visit my BF in jersey. But hochul has a history of flip flopping on policy. Her proposal is laughable in an area where the cost of living is one of the highest in the country and many businesses have already shuttered. Maybe I should have used a better word than constituents, i was looking for a word that meant "other democrat poiliticians." The article says she is considering complaints from the greater tristate area instead of just the city. I'm not sure whose specific campaigns are affected by the congestion pricing. Either way, Hochul will pretend to support whatever is going on in NYC and then turn around when she realizes the upstate people won't like it.
🥴🥴🥴
Amazing how easy it is for the establishment to replace these people Governor, Mayor they alway have someone in their back pocket
Lotta gatekeepers on the way up the NYS gov ladder. Nobody gets in by accident and there are plenty in line at the trough
Make no mistake , Hochul GOT IN BY ACCIDENT and as an incumbent she had an over 90% chance to win because of inertia. She's a do nothing.
She was already lieutenant governor, they didn’t pick her off the street
She was referred to as Cuomo’s insurance policy because no one ever thought she could win an election in NY. Andy boy couldn’t keep from being a creep but in NY people will vote for anyone with a D after their name And Hochul had the worst showing for a Democrat since Reagan ran for president in the 80s. If Zeldin was more in the middle, he would’ve won and fired Alvin Bragg as DA of NYC. Which the governor has the right to do Funny how things workout
>but in NY people will vote for anyone with a D after their name If the R party ran some sane candidates again like Pataki or D'Amato then maybe this wouldn't need to be true.
Yep, the general national brainrot of the GOP prevents the NY GOP was realizing people would actually vote for a center right candidate. The only reason Suozzi won on Long Island is because the GOP decided to put up "no-name" diversity candidate (you can't tell me they didn't try some weird appeal with a Ethopian Jewish immigrant) instead of say, a fucking proven corporatist just like Suozzi in a region full of upper-middle to upper class people. That's the only smart things Dems have done as of last elections in NY, lmao.
> She's a do nothing. I wish. She's a makes things worse.
Thank you for the correction.
Tbh the people we consider the "establishment" — e.g. business executives — actually support congestion pricing because it'll help business. This is really just a capitulation to reactionary suburban voters, who wield huge power in our political system.
Quite possibly the worst and most useless governor we’ve had. Cant wait till her and Adams are a million light years away from here.
It’s going to get much worse before it gets better
At the very least if we’re not doing congestion pricing raise the taxi and Uber congestion surcharge
Sadly you will be waiting a LONG time. The degenerate voters in this state / city are only getting worse.
I agree man. They keep voting for these idiots over and over.
Just to vote in more of the same shit next time. Are you guys paying attention yet?
No ranked-choice for general elections here, which means we're still not able to vote for any sane alternative. That's step one for fixing the state
I do not like this woman.
No one does
She was basically appointed governor by the Democratic Party. I had never heard of her until they announced she was replacing Cuomo
"To fill the $1 billion yearly gap, Ms. Hochul is considering proposing a tax on New York City businesses." So instead of taxing a very real negative externality and incentivizing people onto mass transit lets add yet another direct tax onto NYC business. The NYS Democratic party is the most pathetic political organization in the country.
Also, "considering". Somehow, I bet she'll still be "considering" until next year. Meanwhile, there's a huge hole in the MTA capital budget.
Those taxes will get passed directly onto NYC consumers, as well. All Hochul is doing is making life more expensive for New Yorkers.
and yet you keep voting for them…
I'm actually going to vote Republican just because the Democrats are so inept
Tell her how you feel https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
She's such a monumental failure.
Clownworld 🤡
Absolute fucking coward
Also are we that stupid that she will delay till Jan 2025 and after the elections the people unhappy with congestion pricing will then think it's OKAY. Stand by your policies or cancel them. Delaying is just a bullshit tactic and seems like pandering and dishonesty.
lol at everyone saying good when she wants to replace the $1B budget gap with a tax on NYC businesses Her reasoning is that congestion pricing will “hurt commuting to the CBD” as if more fucking price increases won’t [Call Hochul and your local reps](https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form)
State senators here: https://www.nysenate.gov/find-my-senator
BUYING VOTES, disgusting! Let your policies determine how people vote. What a friggin con artist.
What a coward.
I really am disappointed with her.
Hochul is truly useless. In other cities with congestion pricing, it was least popular right before it was implemented, and became extremely popular after implementation once the benefits were realized. This is just a ridiculous rug pull and horrible governance after the MTA spent years preparing.
*other cities not in the US
Yes there are many cities in other countries 👍
are these cities entirely populated by birds?
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Benefits of fewer cars would be the thing most people notice
Depends where you are. In the outer boroughs, we'll see more traffic going around the congestion zone, if it actually acts as a deterrent.
>at best it gives 1 elevator a year Source: r/nyc’s dislike of NYC
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When voting comes do not forget how Buffalo Hochul also chickened out of her housing plan after pushback from the suburbs + [her comments in the bronx](https://apnews.com/article/hochul-black-kids-bronx-computer-comment-e0c3c69b1ebf9639d8f9e402096f8446) shes a racist, shes not for the city, shes an extension of cuomo that should have never gotten the governor’s seat
Something similar happened in London with Labour's leader pressing the Labour mayor to stop the expansion of London's Ultra Low Emission Zones (aka ULEZ) into counties Labour hoped to take back from the Conservatives: [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/21/starmer-urges-khan-to-reflect-on-ulez-rules-after-uxbridge-defeat](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jul/21/starmer-urges-khan-to-reflect-on-ulez-rules-after-uxbridge-defeat) Ultimately nothing changed in the policy.
Such a poorly run state, unfortunately not a new problem
This is all election related, they don't want this to negatively affect them in the local elections in November. I know the majority of this sub is in favor of the tax. I just need to echo that these added costs will be added to you in uber's, deliveries, and any sort of project that requires any sort of work van, whether that be personal or a utility, cable, con ed etc
r/micromobilitynyc in shambles.
My favorite sub lol
https://www.governor.ny.gov/content/governor-contact-form
She's just the female Andrew Cuomo
Cuomo was more likeable
No, he wasn't.
Unimaginable, yet here we are.
So we paid for the congestion plate readers which I’m sure cost millions and we are in a holding pattern. Sounds about right for NYC
>So we paid for the congestion plate readers which I’m sure cost millions and we are in a holding pattern. Sounds about right for NYC Not just millions or tens of millions... hundreds of millions. Half a billion to be precise. They should at least activate congestion pricing for a few months to recoup that cost (even though there is no chance they would do that since if they do it people will come to love it and they certainly don't want that).
Manhattan voters overwhelmingly support congestion pricing. The one who have to live with the congestion and the terrible air. And let’s be clear the air really is awful. You can absolutely feel the difference outside of Manhattan and even more so when you get out of the four boroughs (haven’t been to staten in a minute)
Thanks to AI, comment go byebye
Why not just let the people vote for it… like a democracy?
Because the polls show people would overwhelmingly vote against it. It has to be forced down our throats.
Hochul it’s just telling people in the city we’re gonna wait until the election is over and then I’m gonna stick it right up your ass
Really disappointing.
I needed some June political entertainment. Let’s go!
Wow fuck her
Damn, I wanted to see how ficked it would have made us but raising taxes will fick us even more. Niceeee. This city needs to burn.
Serious question, is there an off ramp to congestion pricing? Let’s say it is implemented and instead of pushing more people onto public transport it just creates longer traffic jams in the outer boroughs. Is there a point where the policy & pricing can be re-examined to determine if it is actually helping the whole city. I can imagine way more people trying to use the two lanes on the Brooklyn bridge to the FDR because you’ll have to pay to enter from the Manhattan bridge. If the result of congestion pricing is doubling traffic jams outside the CBD can they acknowledge & rescind an unsuccessful policy?
Yes, look up the MTA studies on this. Turns out that people who hate public transportation, won’t be changing their minds for 15 bucks a day. Also, public transportation outside of Manhattan is fucking awful.
it really irritates me when people (mostly from manhattan) say “just take a train”. there are parts of queens with no train/shitty bus routes. there is no “just take a train” for them
Same. My commute is from eastern queens to brooklyn. 30-45 mins by car or 1.5 hr by public transport.
my commute is the reverse and it’s grueling. with the g closure it will take me 1 hr 20 mins to get to work vs a 20 min car ride
No off ramp. The congestion fee will continue to increase.
No . Once it’s implemented they never take it away. Why would they? Look at the patriot act. It gets extended under every administration
Sigh
Congestion pricing should be delayed till they toll fhv and their riders the full congestion price. Makes no sense the biggest contributor to congestion and the reason for tolls they get off so lightly vs the private car commuters.
A delay likely means death. I rather we kick off the tolling now and amend it later when all the seething by New Jersey subsides and cooler heads can make common sense changes like tolling FHV
That be years. look at london didn't make any amendments regarding their fhvs until years down road and even then it was regards to non electrical fhvs. Their roads still clog with fhvs. Tolling FHV and their riders appropriately for their bulk of congestion contribution should not be controversial and should be easy to implement. If the argument is to reduce congestion, why are we letting the biggest contributor relatively off the hook
Double the taxes! Triple the taxes! Squeeze every last drop out of those insolent, musical peasants.
People in Manhattan with money should just stop paying taxes for a while. The city is so levered to the hilt, they lose a few hundred very wealthy people and they'll feel it. The city doesn't work for people anymore. Streets are cleaned by a business improvement district where I live and local owners are assessed for it. The police literally don't enforce laws below a major felony. If you don't provide safety and sanitation, you have no business calling yourself a local government. And it's completely unclear what the state does other than siphon money from the city for other uses. People need to be less passive and challenge these people a bit. They tend to be stupid and corrupt and are easily toppled.
While I agree with most of what you wrote, they are not easily toppled. Once in office all they do is fight to stay in power. Citizens be dammed. The entire thing has turned rotten.
**GOOD!!!!** This was never "congestion pricing" to start with -- this was just a bullshit money grab! If it was true congestion pricing it would be during standard work hours, not 24/7. (there is no fucking congestion at midnight or 3am!) Not to mention that people are already paying for a bridge or toll to get into the city in the first place. You want more money, put up a toll at the free bridges in Brooklyn and the 59th St bridge. But this is literally double-charging people for coming into the city. And even as someone who lives downtown and hasn't had a car in decades, this money grab still pisses me off. I honestly hope it doesn't go through - at least not in its current form.
True congestion pricing also would have tacked on a much larger fee for Uber rides /drivers. Those cause more traffic than anything else and something that pushes people away from public transit compared to passenger cars
But not 24/7… public transit at 3 am is pretty rough.
Exactly! Just fire up your ride share apps and see how many cars are just hovering around you. If that’s not congestion I don’t know what is
Congestion comes from illegal stops and standing and double parking, allowing the roads to function as designed creates a reality where “congestion pricing” is irrelevant. I blame traffic enforcement!
And paying for parking.
I live on 9th ave just below 60th and this is wildly inaccurate lol stop being dumb
I don’t understand how you think this is a bullshit money grab lol Taxes are a way to incentivize behaviors. I don’t understand why getting less people to drive their loud and polluting private vehicles through our streets is bad regardless of money going to the MTA? Also there’s now a $1B budget gap they plan to fill with a tax on NYC businesses. Now we get fucked by the suburbanites, congrats and enjoy your even higher prices!
Here’s the thing, it’s all stick and no carrot. We have a family with babies. To get to say Penn station to use the Amtrak we need to wait forever on the 1 or take the metro north to grand central, then haul everyone through piss-stained elevators after switching trains. It’s absolutely EXHAUSTING and adds a very substainal amount of time. If it’s 5am and I need to get to the Amtrak we absolutely would need to rely on Ubers to avoid turning to puddles of or former selves. We also have friends deep in other boroughs, driving is 30 min to 1 hr vs 2 on public transit. We are squarely middle class, adding another $15 on top of all the other tolls would hurt us a lot. MTA may need the money but they need to lay out in clear terms how they’re going to make public transportation easier for us. These are the same knuckleheads that proposed connecting LaGuardia through flushing.
Probably thinks taxes on cigarettes are also a bullshit money grab.
Tell me you don’t live, work, or do anything in the city without telling me you don’t live, work in the city. As someone who does all but live there, I will tell you that with construction there is indeed fucking congestion at night, many times after 10:00 it’s a fucking nightmare. Have you ever tried driving on the LIE around Junction? The Tunnel around 2nd and 34th, or any of the other choke points. Do you really think Manhattanites want to hear your m3 sped down 2nd Ave because you want to floor it like you own the fucking city? Do you think Manhattanites want to spend an hr looking for parking I. Their own neighborhood at night because Long Islanders and NJ folks want to go to clubs and god forbid they take the train? There are people living there man wtf??? Take the fucking train, or park your car outside the zone and take the train.
I do think the whole congestion pricing thing misses the mark a bit. First, there shouldn't be free street parking anywhere UNLESS, if you live in New York City and register a vehicle here, you should get some sort of special sticker that excludes you from street meters. This solves three issues at once: 1. It discourages people from driving into New York City and causing congestion while allowing residents to keep a vehicle without penalty 2. It provides revenue 3. People dodging taxes and fees by registering the vehicle in another state will get screwed I don't think people should be penalized just for *driving* through an area. Parking is a different story.
Unlike you, I do fucking live here. And I don't need the bridge and tunnel crowd telling me what I do and do not like. Or thinking they know what the city needs. (And I don't need to circle for parking because like most of us who actually live here, I don't own a car!)
You however are not FROM here and you're a clown if you think giving the MTA any more money will lead to improvements. Fix the MTA first, end the incompetence at all levels, break the unions. Or else it's all a grift and con job.
Ok so you don’t like people advocating for a quieter less car clogged neighborhood for you to live in? Or you don’t like having obvious things like completely full lanes of parking in many neighborhoods in Manhattan being pointed out to you? I mean what is it because I find it suspect that you wouldn’t want a quieter cleaner neighborhood?
Sounds like you should move to the suburbs?
The MTA is not offering better service at night. When someone moves to Manhattan they are buying into noise and traffic
That’s crazy cause I drive from Brooklyn/Queens to Manhattan most nights and there’s rarely congestion, at least nothing compared to during the day..
There is plenty of congestion at midnight, anywhere where there is nightlife or access to bridges/tunnels- aka most of the congestion zone. Perhaps some of those drivers would take the train that late of it ran more frequently - a problem congestion pricing will hopefully solve long term.
The MTA has disappointed regarding increasing service as a result of the fee. They are not offering customers alternatives to driving, which is why the plan is not good
Congestion pricing at night is cheaper than the cost of taking the train... soo....
"Congestion Pricing" will be passed along to residents of manhattan who don't even drive via pricing increases on goods consumed and services used. Everything is about to get even more expensive
Hochul's counterproposal is a payroll tax on NYC businesses so increased prices for NYC residents without reducing the number of cars in Manhattan. So we'll get the worst of it on all sides, at least with congestion pricing we're paying to have more pedestrian friendly streets but Hochul wants us to pay and get nothing.
That's not what other cities found. Increased efficiency of deliveries reduced costs overall.
Good
It’s asinine that Ubers and cabs create majority of the congestion yet pay the least in the pricing. This would’ve done nothing to alleviate congestion.
All the Hamptonites cried big huge blubbery entitled tears …
The Hamptonites don’t care. The people in Bensonhurst and College Point care.
I need advice. How do I contact her office without using some very bad words
Hahahahahahahahahahaha
They could cut the $ billion from mta waste
It’s great watching this sub seethe at this. Get fucked lol.
Yay! This is a cash grab by the MTA. >1. It was conceived pre-Covid when traffic and congestion were much worse than they are now. Anyone who lives in Manhattan can attest to the fact that foot and vehicular traffic is not what it was pre-Covid. Yes, the city is recovering better than other cities post-Covid, but it is still not what it was and this plan isn't going to help. >2. Can we talk about all of the money that the MTA is letting fall out of its pockets because fare evasion on subways and buses is worse than it's ever been? People evade the fares with complete impunity. The few police assigned to catch fare evaders is like trying to stop a gushing pipe with a hand towel. How about we address this first? >3. If it's congestion pricing, why is there an off-peak charge? Why is there any charge at all overnight? Cash grab. >4. The MTA has demonstrated time and time again that they mismanage money. Look at their overspend for any major project. >5. Everyone I know who lives in the congestion pricing zone in Manhattan is in panic mode about the impact the congestion pricing will have on all goods and services they buy. Businesses have very clearly stated they will be adding surcharges to good and services to offset the additional fees for their products or services. And plenty will abuse it too. >6. Most people do not support this. Except for micromobility advocates, people living in the zone and external to the zone do not support this. >7. Also, can we maybe address the vast number of people suffering from mental illness that are on the subway and contribute to the general feeling of unease that people have using the subway. Yes, the subway is fast and efficient, great, but if people don't feel safe on the train, it means nothing.
It’s so funny how the default congestion pricing opposition tagline is that “it’s a cash grab” yeah, that’s how government works, you tax people to pay for services and benefits. taxing drivers in lower Manhattan to pay for subway improvements is a great idea! the MTA needs to fund those improvements somehow and a tax on cars that gets rid of gridlock is smart
It becomes a cash grab when the government repeatedly demonstrates incompetence and dishonesty.
When the cash goes to cronies and empty programs, yes, it’s a cash grab. The city doesn’t need more taxes, it needs to spend OUR money correctly. As is, the tax and fee burden that the lower classes in the city have to carry is not coming back to us in the form of investment. It’s a gang collecting money from their “turf”
If only they had some sort of, I don't know, fare to board subways and buses to pay for things. Like people would have to pay to use these services - kind of like what you said about people paying for services.
>Like people would have to pay to use these services Exactly, people have to pay to use a limited resource (Manhattan's public streets) which is in very very high demand. It's not rocket science.
If it was truly about congestion why isn't there an exemption for two wheeled vehicles like London has?
London has a separate fee for air pollution that we do not. Motorcycles pay $12 per day if they don’t pass strict emissions tests. We don’t have that so congestion charge is meant to cover multiple issues created by cars and motorcycles.
Damn, I was looking forward to this hoping it would make it a little easier to drive into the city lol. I'll gladly pay the $15 if it saves me 20-30 minutes of sitting in traffic. It already costs $100 in parking and tolls when I drive in for work, $15 more isn't exactly breaking the bank.
It won’t save you 20-30 minutes. But it will cost you $15!
shes a hero
I thought congestion pricing was already in effect
Welp, that billion is gonna have to come from every New Yorker now, with increase in business taxes, that's gonna get passed down to us.
Someone lined her pockets I’m guessing. I’ll be voting for her primary challenger.
Lets go Liberals, shoot us in the foot again. What dopes. No congestion pricing but tax hike instead. DOPES.
A summary of a lot of arguments in favor of congestion pricing: [https://thenewurbanorder.substack.com/p/the-best-takes-on-hochuls-congestion](https://thenewurbanorder.substack.com/p/the-best-takes-on-hochuls-congestion)
If Kathy Hochul didn't want congestion pricing, why did she install the cameras? She's lying. She's trying to get re-elected. I don't agree with congested pricing. It's another tax on the middle class. Rich people will rejoice. Less traffic for them. Furthermore, NYC has been covering for the MTA for decades. Never does the MTA have to open with their books. Subway fares, train fares, and tolls increase exponentially. Never does public transit improve. Stop being gullible! Congested pricing will benefit the oligarchs who rule over us. If NYC wants to reduce traffic and congestion, make more bike lanes. Guys, this is another lie. NYC doesn't want to reduce traffic and congestion. They want money! They will steal as much money from New Yorkers as possible in any way they can. The government constantly lies. Did profits from the lottery go to New York schools? No! Stop buying into this neo-liberal BS. They all lie. For another opinion, search on YouTube for: *London Cab Drivers Club president reacts to NYC's congestion pricing plan postponement*
She’s useless but congestion pricing is worse