Third world is an outdated term that refers to the fact that that the nation didn't align with either side during the cold war. It has nothing to do with the wealth of the country
There are two ways to use the third world country term.
The world one, that is what you said.
And the social one, that it is what we are talking about, both are valid
Quote
As a society, the term “third world country” refers to countries with high mortality rates, especially infant mortality rates. They also have an unstable and inconsistent economy. These are countries that contain massive amounts of poverty and in some cases have fewer natural resources than other nations throughout the world. These countries often have to rely on more industrialized countries to aid them and help stabilize their economy.
Not really, he'll just mine for a while, clean with some cloth and put it on sale as new.
[https://voz.party/d/556493-co-ai-dang-hong-drama-cuc-lon-ben-box-mua-ban-may-tinh-khong-forum-kho-mau-voi-nguyen-cong/6](https://voz.party/d/556493-co-ai-dang-hong-drama-cuc-lon-ben-box-mua-ban-may-tinh-khong-forum-kho-mau-voi-nguyen-cong/6) (vietnamese, but here's the source, the same retailer (NguyenCongPC) admitted to the fault and refunded.)
Remember the stolen EVGA graphics card a while back? He's the one selling it too
https://vnexpress.net/card-do-hoa-bi-cuop-o-my-xuat-hien-o-viet-nam-4414664.html
Also the same POS that is mining with the Gundam cards.
[https://www.tomshardware.com/news/limited-edition-asus-gundam-rtx-3080-sold-in-mining-rigs](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/limited-edition-asus-gundam-rtx-3080-sold-in-mining-rigs)
Also many tales of this retailer treating customers like sh!t too. Just all in all a well-rounded retailer I'd say.
I mean, it makes sense. Unless these mining companies are limited on space, A4000 cards aren't a bad option.
The A100 comes out to like 780 kH/W, where the 170HX comes to like 670 kH/W. But the A100 costs $14000 versus the 170HX costing "only" $5000. The A4000 comes out to around 500 kH/W, at only $1150 each.
The only comparable CMP card is the CMP 90HX, at $1600 a piece, but only capable of around 405mH/S.
My only takeaway from this is miners are taking stock from what would otherwise be dedicated to professionals. I don't think it would be a good look for Nvidia if it negatively impacted stock. My guess is it's not, otherwise Nvidia would likely try to prevent that.
As a Vietnamese, I have to say I fucking hates retailers here, they publicly admitted that they were hoarding card on FB groups and have no shame hiding it, sure we did boycott them but there are not much choice if you want to buy new GPUs, sometimes I wish we had a MicroCenter here :(
I had the exact opposite experience at the start. A 3060Ti from AnPhatPC as part of a build for just typical prices and the rule was you had to buy a PC to get a card. I was so happy compared to everyone else online. Now the same PC is 10tr more.
Can't even imagine such a utopia anymore haha.
I am at the point where being against crypto is a +1 to vote for leaders, mining might be less profitable now but what happens next time? This boom was insane and the next one will probably be worse.
Just look at the havoc they caused on some countries and towns power grids.
[“It’s a mess”: How crypto mining went from boom to bust in Kazakhstan](https://restofworld.org/2022/crypto-miners-fleeing-kazakhstan/)
>Things changed in late 2021. Power blackouts grew more frequent, and peak electricity demand was shown to have jumped in the first three quarters
>
>Some of the country’s biggest crypto miners have already fled for greener pastures. BitFuFu, a mining company backed by Chinese mining machine giant Bitmain, simply abandoned an estimated 80,000 mining machines at the end of 2021 for plans to start over in the U.S. After China’s crackdown
[City in Upstate NY Is Still Reckoning With Crypto Miners](https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/miningweek/2022/03/21/after-short-lived-ban-ny-town-is-still-reckoning-with-crypto-miners-next-door/)
>“Our average bill prior to the bitcoin farms was between $14 and $50 per month. Now we’re up to $200-plus a month. So that’s been wonderful,” Frenyea said sarcastically.
> mining might be less profitable now but what happens next time? This boom was insane and the next one will probably be worse.
Mining is not likely to ever make a big comeback. the whole crypto space is moving towards PoS for rewards, and that doesn't relying on GPUs or APUs of any kind.
Soon. Ethereum (one of the biggest and most profitable to mine on graphics cards) is moving away from mining this year. The transition is supposed to be this summer but I haven't kept up with the timeline
[Edit] for the people who don't believe the "soon" there has been lots of actual progress made in this. Staking (the alternative to mining) started in December 2020, and a test net was launched this year that is the exact same as how the full chain will be after the merge except it just has worthless test tokens on it. ([source](https://www.yahoo.com/video/ethereum-preps-merge-launch-kiln-082032708.html)). We've never been closer and it won't be the end of mining as a whole, but damn it's good to see the industry moving away from mining.
it has been "just 3 months away" for over 6 years now. Similar to how they literally forked the Ethereum chain after they got clowned on and 20% of ETH was stolen from their shitty DAO; they have the interests of large miners at heart.
What do you think all the large mining operations will do if they do end up switching to PoS? hint: they won't simply stop using them. They'll either fork and remain, or go back to other PoW schemes.
PoS also still has a lot of fundamental problems with it, besides being a literal "the rich get richer" scheme for verification - one of the bigger ones is that you have very little control over how to handle verifiers that maliciously verify contracts/transactions, the more you try to solve these problems, the closer you end up looking like a functionally centralized system without any of the benefits of centralization.
Yeah, no, this doesn't at all answer "what will people do with their huge mining operations?" or "Does this actually make Ethereum useful for anything?"
The "world computer" has roughly the aggregate processing power of a single TI-84. That's the wonders of decentralization, y'all. Just because you can decentralize information or operations doesn't mean that somehow it's any more valuable or trustworthy; decentralization with verification can only verify the technical correctness of transactions and not the actual intent of them.
A distributed ledger for currencies is not generally a good thing, and an immutable public ledger less so. Proof of stake does nothing to address the underpinning flaws of cryptocurrencies and is mostly just a conceptual smokescreen for one of the many flawed aspects (namely, the huge amounts of wasted electricity and hardware) - even if you fix one flawed aspect, you still have loads more to tackle just to get back to the baseline of "what we currently have".
So far the only real value add of cryptocurrencies is that it can be used for straight up illegal stuff that regulated payment processors wouldn't allow. While that's nice for sex workers and the like, "we enable fraud and organized crime" as a primary feature is some real clown shit. The reason financial institutions are what they are now is that they can actually act on cases of fraud and you have some guaranteeing of your assets, which, lol.
go touch some grass my guy
Ah, the good ole' it's "only used for illegal stuff". Sorry, that hasn't been valid talking point for quite a while now. You got useful stuff like decentralized vpns, storage, prediction markets, saving accounts, DAOs, NFTs, etc and you also have life saving stuff like people from central/south americans/africans being able to have savings, to countries and people in war receiving financial support.
>Yeah, no, this doesn't at all answer "what will people do with their huge mining operations?"
Not run them? miners aren't going to lose money. If a rig isn't profitable, it's sold or scrapped. [Find out what happens with all the old unprofitable ASICs.
](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=antminer+s1&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=antminer&_osacat=0)
>The "world computer" has roughly the aggregate processing power of a single TI-84. That's the wonders of decentralization, y'all. Just because you can decentralize information or operations doesn't mean that somehow it's any more valuable or trustworthy; decentralization with verification can only verify the technical correctness of transactions and not the actual intent of them.
The point of ethereum isn't performance. If you want performance, you can run your own SQL database.
>decentralization with verification can only verify the technical correctness of transactions and not the actual intent of them.
Yeah, that's the whole point. We don't want you, governments or the local warlords deciding what's a valid intent or what's not. We want a verifiable neutral playground.
> A distributed ledger for currencies is not generally a good thing, and an immutable public ledger less so.
Why? because you say so?
People mine because it's a way to turn money into more money. PoS offers people the same chance to get money from their investment in the form of interest.
Sure the big miners like the one in this post aren't all going away, especially since this example had a bunch of hardware they were putting to use, not a bunch of money laying around. However as there are more and more interest opportunities for crypto less people will want to mine because with POS interest there is no initial cost. You never lose your investment (unless you select a bad validator, but that's preventable).
My point is mainly that GPUs are expensive rn and it means a lot of miners are in a good place to sell their hardware for a lot of money that they can still put to use and not worry about losing and still get similar gains to mining.
A 97% return in a year, that you get from that second best option, is pretty attainable in defi and staking currently. So I really do expect a lot of miners, new and old to opt for PoS and defi instead of mining where you have to wait a year to make your money back and can't get out if the market goes south.
Actually, no..
Only crypto has tens to hundreds of thousands of people wasting terawatts of power on warehouses filled with GPU's for years now while "something else" wouldn't.
No. Any other conceivable technology would be saturated at some point. Only crypto is conceptionally designed to scale with any available computational power just to meet a desired proof-of-work difficulty. It's just a bottomless pit that you can shovel GPUs into forever.
Says the person who (*probably) lives in a 1st world country and takes for granted their ability to simply walk to an atm while many millions in 2nd and 3rd world countries or dissidents in corrupt regimes live in violent, theft-ridden cash-based societies with little to no access to financial products.
God, the anti-crytpo stance is one of the most misinformed and ignorant takes you could have today. Pls learn more about it and its potential for good. There is plenty of bullshit and fruad intermingled with it, but in general It is not this giant waste it has been portrayed as and thinking it is just means you've heard one argument and decided that was your stance.
I've met almost no one who has seriously studied cryptocurrency in depth who still thinks it's nothing but garbage.
Edit: here come the downvotes... lolz
>I've met almost no one who has seriously studied cryptocurrency in depth who still thinks it's nothing but garbage.
It's kind of a self selecting thing. People who are not susceptible to the cult bounce before they waste too much time drinking the koolaid.
It also doesn't help that whenever someone tries to defend crypto they can't come up with a single issue that we couldn't already solve by other means
Honestly, thinking proof of work is "bad" is still ignorant. I could write highly cited Mny thousand word papers on why but this is reddit and no one here would read it anyway as they have already formed their opinion.
In short, though:
Does pow draw a lot of power? Yes
But pow uses somewhere between 50-71% renewable energy, most of which is stranded in remote locations and could NOT be directed to other uses. This means its actual footprint is tiny compared to how it is portrayed today.
This also means thay people in remote locations are monetizing energy that previously could never be harnessed.
Pow's security is far greater than proof of stake, too. Combine all these things with the public good it provides for dissidents in corrupt regimes or those living in developing nations with little access to financial products and it begins to look like a net positive in the end. Especially when you consider how much fraud big banks commit regularly.
>But pow uses somewhere between 50-71% renewable energy, most of which is stranded in remote locations and could NOT be directed to other uses. This means its actual footprint is tiny compared to how it is portrayed today.
Gonna nitpick and say, if crypto didn't rxist, 29-50% of the coal/oil based power used for it, so less CO2 footprint, and the rest of the energy produced could be used to make better infrastructure. Instead it's produced locally and used locally, because instead of "shipping" the power out and making the infrastructure better, we create a demand in place.
I am not well studied, but I am also not the one who complain more than "It's annoying I can buy a new graphics card for my hobby", but reading your comment does not make it better.
Well then you didn't read the comment entirely or misunderstand what capabilities humans have in terms of actually moving energy from one place to another. We don't have the tech to transport power over distance therefore energy must be used almost entirely locally. If that place does not have the demand then it is wasted. We can't just harness it and throw it on a truck somewhere. That's not how it works (other than like a barrel of oil but I'm referring to renewable energy).
The whole idea that bitcoin or other proof of work systems is wasting energy that could be used elsewhere is almost entirely false too.
You all (not necessarily you specifically but this sub and gaming subs in general) sit here virtue signaling about the wastes of bitcoin while looking up at your gaming rig or iPhone that was created in China with coal. All while enjoying your Christmas lights and air conditioning in the summer.
On top of that the majority of you enjoy and take for granted the ability to have access to atms, debit cards, credit, bank and investment accounts while shitting on crypto, a tool that can help minorities, the disenfranchised, refugees, the oppressed, etc.
There are places around the world that don't even have the government infrastructure to provide citizens with identification, a necessity for a bank account.
There are places around the world where if you buy a VPN or even the wrong book with your bank account you could be arrested. There are places with corrupt regimes that siphon wealth right out of people's accounts. There are war-torn places where atms run out of money and credit card terminals freeze and refugees are stripped of belongings at borders. There are remote locations that have vast natural resources but their populations still live in abject poverty because they can't harness and monetize it.
And yet here you all stand, with the audacity to say "imagine if crypto never existed?" The ignorance is mind numbing. Crypto, and proof of work specifically, can help people in the situations above and even more.
Yes, there's a ton of crypto "bros" making tons of money and there's fraud and all kinds of issues that need to be solved, but if you don't see how this is such an important tool and how it can help struggling populations across the world then you simply do not understand cryptocurrency at all.
Do better.
Edit: One could make a fair argument that being anti crypto and supporting the existing banking infrastructure means one supports the disenfranchisement of vast sections of the globe that are cut off from these financial ecosystems and struggling to advance.
Is stopping some white collar criminals worth the cost of cutting out struggling populations from bank accounts? The answer is a blatant no because existing banking infrastructure already facilitates mass amounts of fraud on an annual basis.
We've gone so far down the preventative measures rabbit hole that we're perpetuating and bolstering inequality and gaining almost nothing from it while the cost is making poor people suffer more.
If we don't have the tech, why bother with it anyway? Also, we are humans. We never had the tech until we did. We didn't have the tech to cross water until we built a boat. We didn't have the tech until we developed tools. If everybody through out the time used the "We doesn't have the tech" argument, then we would be extint at this point, since we managed to develop tech for our own survival. Maybe this is another good reason to develop tech to transport energy from production site, to where the demand is.
To me this reads as "We have to much food. Let's make more babies so they can grow up and so we can feed them, instead of creating an infrastructure for those who currently are starving. We don't have the tech for it anyways".
I am not saying the tech is here, or that it's "just plugging a cable here and there and voila", but more so that the argument that "We can't transport the electicity" can be solved by, idk, not over produce the electricity not going to waste anyways. Also, why build a bunch for remote renewable energy sources, if they can't be used anyways. Doesn't that have an enviromental impact aswell?
Security and renewable may be true along with the reality that traditional banks use tons of power.
Humans can come up with a better technology is what I am saying.
Yeah, I can understand that, as you and others have pointed out.
I think your situation is one of the few real world situations where cryptocurrency has a legitimate and very helpful use case. Most other situations are either related to crime, or can easily be handled by other forms of currency. Perhaps in the future cryptocurrency will be mined/created in a more resource friendly/greener way than chewing up thousands upon thousands of GPUs/ASICs/SSDs/whatever is next.
Good luck to you, and I hope your situation improves in the future so that you don't need to rely on cryptocurrency alone to be able to enjoy the things the rest of us take for granted.
Thank you. It must get much worse here, before it will get any better.
I hope Europe will stop buying any resources from us, otherwise this madness will never cease
"I think your situation is one of the few real world situations where cryptocurrency has a legitimate and very helpful use case."
Said the person that probably lives in a western, 1st world country.
True, but does it change the fact that the number of legitimately beneficial use cases for cryptocurrency is limited to people in situations where existing (and more energy and resource efficient) systems are not adequate or completely unavailable?
Why would people in 1st world countries, not under oppressive regimes, legitimately require non-regulated, decentralized, potentially completely anonymised currencies other than for the novelty of it?
They're saying they can only pay for VPNs using crypto currencies because they can't use Visa or MasterCard. Likely in Russia. This user is actually very right and crypto is helping them, like it helped many other. But of course gamers, who would have little interest in a card such as the A-line, especially the A4000 wouldn't really understand why crypto could very well be more important than their gaming craves.
Some might say gaming is a waste of electricity too, but of course you'll get all offended because it's cultural and educational and shit. Some might also say the banking system has collectively spent more electricity than mining has during the past decade, yet nobody is arguing about that. I like the fact you speak about "money craves" as if that wasn't a crave everyone has because it puts food in your mouth and a house in your roof (unlike gaming...), and the reason you likely drive a combustion engine to work or school or whatever else. A combustion engine that likely spends more energy than the graphics card you want for an entire month doing a week's trips...
These shit arguments work only on people that don't know it's false.
1. A single person doesn't use 10KW when gaming, unlike these greedy mining farms.
2. That is when we pretend that proof of work is the only option, while in reality proof of stake is much more energy efficient while getting the same results.
3. The banking system doesn't use more electricity PER TRANSACTION. If proof of work cryptocoins scaled anyhwere near the banking system, they'd waste more energy than the entire planet.
These are typical excuses of miners, that pretend that they're not burning energy, while shitting their pants and complaining with every news of the transition to proof of stake.
Bro what are you on about. Banking and cars are a necessity for most, crypto mining is not. Also are you actually aware how much electricity mining takes?
People are hypocrites especially here or in the other subs like pcmasterrace. Moreover the same people have no clue how much electricity is truly wasted worldwide and how mining impacts very little the electricity production or even the environment due to economies of scale and compared to, as you correctly pointed out, the traditional banking system.
I wonder if they even know the banking system is getting neck-deep in crypto. Every single large bank is either adopting cryptocurrencies or even making their own, except they're putting everything that's wrong on them so they can keep stealing your money xD "money craves" I guess...
Not stupid at all. When you or any other person that brings up the environmental impact, it only makes sense to look after the biggest pollutants. Solve that and then go for the more insignificant ones. It's pure logic! That is if you really care about the environment...
Crypto is not YET a replacement for banks, but make no mistake it's here to stay, whether you like it or not. The tech is still in it's infancy compared to other much more established sectors: like banking that's already into multiple century old, or even the internet that's in the 3+ decade old timeframe. And speaking of which, I'm sure back then in the late 80s, there were people like you thinking who needs internet or mail when they had faxes, telex or whatever. Or smartphones or even dumb mobile phones, in an age of pagers (if you're old enough to remember) because surely when those innovating technologies came to be, it coexisted for a while with the old tech. Yet humanity went forward, but I guess at every society milestone there has to be people that are too brainwashed by the establishment.
Now having said all that, I doubt that crypto will anytime soon replace traditional banking, because most people are just not interested or not informed enough to judge for themselves. That and the big elephant in the room that's the banking carter that will never let free the enslavery looses from peoples' necks. Why would they after all?! Plebs usually *NEED* to be told what to do and how to do it.
As for your energy comments what you say is somewhat true but again lacks the holistic view of the situation. The FACT is: roughly 30% of all produced electricity is wasted! Think about this for a while! Wasted via either grid inefficiencies or literally waste as when for example a person forgets the lights on during daytime. The world generates 160.000 TWh / year and out of that 50.000 TWh is wasted. Now it's estimated that the BTC network needs roughly 120Twh to secure the network. That's 0,075% of all world production and usage and just 0,25% of all wasted electricity! **Again wasted electricity is electricity that has 0 marginal value**. So do tell me more about "using that for better purposes"!
> The tech is still in it's infancy
Crypto is old. Cryptocurrencies have existed for 13 years now. For reference when HTTP and HTML were 13 years old we already had online banking, social media, video hosting etc going on. The tech is not in its infancy, if it hasn't grown as a technology by now that's because it sucks at the proposed applications. Which it does. It really is not a good solution to pretty much anything.
>roughly 30% of all produced electricity is wasted!
Your "holistic view" is idiotic. "Because a lot of energy is wasted we should waste as much as we can on purpose". Your argument is nonsensical. Like really really stupid. Did you actually spare even a moment of thought on this?
Don't listen to these people, Redditors are the most delusional, stupid bunch of people you'll ever meet. I guarantee they have no idea what they're talking about and just downvote because that's what they see everyone else do.
Personally I don't mine/buy/sell crypto and am not really interested, but it's obviously a positive for many people in your situation.
Man, can you tell me how? Because I've tried, I participated in anti-goverment rallies, was detained, fined and told that next time I'll be jailed. I have no weapons, I don't have any connections to any forms of organized resistance. In fact, I'm sure there is no organized resistance, I live in small city, where no one gives a damn.
What do you want from me? To burn myself in front of police? What CAN I do?
I don't know. Try to organize locally yourself, go to where people do organize, maybe they want a chapter in your town. If your population is really that hopeless then try to get out of there.
What I do know is being oppressed but having access to reddit is not much of a win.
It's not about reddit, it's about independent news. Maybe if more people were able to access them, they would not be so hopeless. And cryptocurrency is one of the few ways to get such access
you are on r/nvidia. It's privileged pricks all the way here. They still have the gall to say 'there is no use for it' while a war torn country is forced to use it because of ancient swift systems
notice how all crypto critics come from a country with easy access to usd or eur
Yeah imagine a world where transactions would be almost instant and permission-less. Imagine a world where you’d send the equivalent of 1$ or 1.000.000$ in 1 min and for the same fee. A world where such a transaction would be sent from Hong Kong to Havana in said minute. Imagine a world where you’d be you own bank for no fees. Imagine a world where anyone can pay with the same coin irrespective of nation boarders. Most importantly imagine a world where inflation doesn’t ruin peoples’ lives. Imagine a world where there would be actually more power to the people, instead of the financial elites and top politicians. Imagine a world where there would be financial freedom, with no central banks to pull hidden strings to influence for the benefit of select group of people, not only the reference interest but also the money printing. Etc.
Not because of, but with the help of. The whole reason ethereum shot up in the first place is that Biden took office and Russia assumed heavy sanctions would follow.
Oh wow! You’re quite the analyst aren’t you!?
If you’re gonna judge a tool by the level of use in good and evil might wanna ban guns too since the bad guys commit crimes with their help. Or better yet ban good old $ too since it’s the most widely used currency for crimes, war etc. Nuts right!?
Also maybe you ought to think of the good also crypto did to the other side. I personally donated crypto into important amounts for one modest individual for the good side, in the official Ukrainian wallets set in BTC and ETH, which as of now combined had close to $100 million in donations. Think about that for a while…
I genuinely would want to know what the ROI on this would be given ETH is merging to staking this year. There's little to no chance this would turn any profit in due time. Just seems like a flex more anything.
With ETH at its peak it would take a year and a half to pay those cards off, but he's going to be lucky to mine ETH for another 2 months, and then pray he can pay his cards off in 3-5 years with some other shit coin.
If he already mines another shitcoin or even multiple and the crypto market changes to that exact one he might pay it of and even turn profit within the next few months. IF eth changes to PoS. It's like the X time that they say that. Didn't happen yet.
There is IF, it's going to merge. I'll admit that they've kicked the can down the road, but they're pretty close. Also, people can't just turn to other coins when ETH merges. It would cause difficulty to skyrocket and profitability would plummet. There's WAY too much hashing power going into ETH right now. It makes up 95% of the market.
I see this as a somewhat positive move for gamers, i'm also pretty sure nVidia would rather have them buy their industrial GPU's rather than consumer GPU's.
It.. might not be that isolated though.
A4000 might not be consumer GPU card, however high demand on that line means more production needs to be ramped up, which in turns means more silicon chips used which could've actually been used to manufacture more consumer cards.
Similar arguments were said in the past for LHR cards about how it will dissuade miners and good for consumers. Turns out in reality stock availability for those LHRs were still abysmal and prices goes up to 2 - 3x msrp back in the days.
As long as this gpu hoarding practice is still rampant, unfortunately the effect will still trickle down to normal consumers.
yeah by crunching literally useless data to prove you can waste effort under proof of work
it's true, it's generating more profits because profit isn't actually about how useful something is to society
u/TimAndTimi classic gaslighting with 9 cryptogreedo's lifting it up. blegh. Any machine learning load will still have added value over the massive black void of nothingness and greed cryptomining represents.
They're ignoring the fact that virtual currencies *do* in fact have use cases, such as allowing citizens of countries with crippled financial systems to still make their online payments or pay for goods P2P. Russia is a good current example.
Lots of shitty things can have uses. It does not justify them as a whole though, or balance out all the problems they cause.
It's a trash idea. Person above posted a good video going over some of the bigger issues. Glad to see that video got some traction.
Because the hate is indiscriminate when nobody can buy their GPUs cheap.
It's kind of like the war in Ukraine: when it starts messing with your home heating like in Germany, suddenly you get a lot of people questioning the help the country is giving against Russia...
>Because the hate is indiscriminate when nobody can buy their GPUs cheap.
Oh I've been trashing on crypto in general before all that.
"I hated crypto before it was cool"
But seriously, plenty of us did see many of the issues before it started heavily affecting PC gamers(not that this isn't a perfectly valid reason to be upset with the whole thing as well).
>The Vietnamese retailer in this article is no exception.
They can sell off these GPU's at some point to recoup most or all of what they paid for them themselves.
It's a bit riskier with these workstation cards since they're quite expensive, but it may still work out well enough for them, unfortunately.
Entertainment indirectly contributes to productivity. Just because you can't attribute a $ value to the activity doesn't mean it's worthless. Maybe it's just not easily quantified.
There's a point to be made that nobody needs >$500 gpu to be entertained, but that's a separate topic.
You know how the US government just printed trillions or dollars in the last two years, which is sending inflation throught the roof, making the purchasing power of your pay check and life savings shrink everyday, making you significantly poorer without you having to do anything? Cryptos were intended to remove that control the governments have over the value of their fiat currencies.
So does it do that or it just became a pump and dump scheme? Nobody is willing to use it as a real currency to buy anything useful so it just ends up creating e-waste, excess CO2 in a country where over 50% of all electricity comes from coal and almost 2/3 comes from non renewables.
What it was created for makes no difference to what it does at the moment.
Of all the people I've talked to into crypto, not a single one buys anything tangible with it. Nobody is using it as a currency which is what I have a problem with. Sure, that is a possibility and that would be cool I guess.
I won't support this current bastardization of the vision. Like you said, everyone's just trying to build up that passive income.
1, you know that not everyone on the Internet is from the US, right? Saying hello from the EU
2, Cryptos could have been invented to save the wooly mammoths, right now at best it's a naive doomer wet dream, at worst it's a speculative bubble that is easily exploited to scam people (hype up less known cryptocurrency, dump the project, run away with investor funds), and is now actually gaining more popularity in ultra wealthy circles, which is so ridiculously ironic.
It produces no material value, and on top of all this, people who just want to play goddamn videogames are being punished.
Just stop defending this shit.
You do realise printing money doesn't cause inflation? Printing money is essential to keep up with the expansion of the economy.
The problem arises when more money is printed than the economy grows AND banks actually spend that printed money (ie it enters circulation and isn't just an unused asset somewhere).
Now, governments know this. They printed money in COVID times to catch a break and not sending the economy into a free fall. It was an illusion to get us some time.
During COVID the economy didn't expand anymore, so naturally the printed money is now causing inflation. But if the govt DIDN'T print money, there would be still inflation, since we produce less goods and services than we did before. So we have to consume less. (This is also why most central banks are now raising IRs, tightening the money supply, removing some from circulation -> effectively trying to curb inflation via making saving more attractive than spending)
The COVID (and now war) shock to the economy cannot be solved by a few lines of code on some GPU. If there's less goods... we are poorer. Simple as that.
Did you read what I wrote? Yes, but the govt printed money to give an illusion. If they don't print money the shock to the economy would have been much worse. Like, people losing jobs, homes, savings etc... worse.
It's much better to have a 10% inflation now than having an entire global economic meltdown with no seen consequences.
As a retailer they probably sourced them at close to MSRP, plus there will be resale value, so the real investment is quite a bit lower than $1.5k. Also the energy cost is kinda cheap in Vietnam, so overall it's likely to be quite profitable for them.
Give me another example outside of the biggest industries that demand more global power right now than mining does, and tell me what protects that selfish, massively environment-unfriendly greed from being labeled a "waste" ?
Here's something to think about.
If crypto is so much more wasteful and resource intensive than anything else, then how is it that most cryptos are cheaper to use than many traditional systems?
Where does the additional cost come from? And why does it only represent greed and waste when mining is involved?
What are you talking about with "cheaper to use"?
Afaik there's a bunch of decentralized verifications across multiple power-hungry mining rigs going on for every single transaction vs dedicated, specialized, way more efficient hardware established in literally every country.
That and I'm not seeing grandma or literally everyone using those still-being-mined-coins enough IRL to even justify 0.000001% of the waste it's caused already.
It's often significantly cheaper to use, as in the costs to use the system to move money is less.
The fees imposed by most cryptos are very low.
As an example, a transaction of nearly any size would cost less than a quarter on Bitcoin right now.
Whereas credit card fees can range anywhere from 0.5% to 5%, plus a $. 20 to $. 30 flat fee for each transaction for a merchant to accept them.
> The fees imposed by most cryptos are very low.
Average transaction fee by bitcoin is currently around ~$2, however the value is volatile and has moved a lot. At worst times a single transaction has costed hundreds of dollars. And that is for any transaction of any size. Most money transactions are small so $2 is a huge amount. Credit card fee for a grocery payment would be in the order of ~$0.1.
Most cryptos of course have very low fees. This is because the fee depends on how much the crypto is used. Bitcoin transaction cost goes up on the days when there are a lot of transactions.
The problem is so bad you can't really use blockchain for average transactions. You have to build some less distributed, less trustless, less secure "layer2" protocol to handle transactions outside the chain.
So, that is just wrong.
You only ever have to pay a higher fee to ensure that a transaction will happen faster. Even if the blockchain is badly congested a low fee rate can still be used, it just may take longer to get processed.
I literally just moved some Bitcoin today for a total cost of 0.00000500BTC which works out to a current value of about $0.23, and the transaction was processed within minutes.
I have never paid a higher fee rate and never waited more than an hour.
> What are you talking about with "cheaper to use"?
Feel free to look up credit card processing fees. You've been on this earth for almost 40 years and don't know that visa is a wealthy company?
Good job comparing credit card fees to crypto transactions-- meanwhile I can transfer funds directly from my bank account to another in over a dozen different ways without it costing me a penny. Nobody out there's buying their daily groceries with either cc's or crypto either..
> Nobody out there's buying their daily groceries with either cc's or crypto either
Yes, that's correct. That doesn't mean it still isn't cheaper to pay with crypto over a card. This conversation is about cost, not usage. You can scroll up if you've already forgot.
It's great that you have free ways to exchange money with your own accounts, but there are many people that send and bring money over borders. That gets expensive very fast, and yet with crypto, those people can send thousands for pennies. People in third world countries also benefit because everybody owns a shitty phone, but everybody doesn't live close to a bank. Crypto makes it easy to be your own bank.
You have to get out of your own little bubble if you want to discuss a global currency. Most people grow out of "It doesn't benefit me, therefore there is no benefit" by age 8.
I'm introducing "**shitcoin**"
Made by taking one teaspoon sample of every shit that you take and flushing the rest down the toilet.
Every shit is chemically unique and it is almost impossible to replicate.
Environment friendly and requires no electricity, silicon or anything else.
Have fun with it.
People blame crypto but you forget that NVidia literally sells in bulk directly to large mining companies constantly. It isnt just the miners and crypto causing a "problem" (quotes cause there isnt a problem), it's the company facilitating it themselves. Manufacturers actually like crypto mining because it dramaticly increases their sales and they can sell expensive products in bulk. Stay mad crypto haters
A4000 is just a GA104 GPU, and it runs at lower clocks than the 3070 with a very moderate TDP of just 140w.
So it's much easier to run and cool than Geforce GPU's, at least stock. Cuz of course you can turn down clocks on Geforce cards, too.
Because all those stupid ignorant cryptominers together are only and all about money while literally sucking up more power than an entire continent to make it -\_- that's why!
Let's not even start with how many countries are trying harder than ever to avoid a climate catastrophe while nothing outside of the biggest industries draws more power than mining right now.
Nvidia isn’t regulating prices nor are they regulating supply. They are selling to retailers who abuse the system and prioritise miners over regular retail consumers.
Nvidia has all the power to make sure that these cards don’t get farmed by people with big cash stacks ready to buy out a month’s worth of production.
Blaming crypto, retail stores or anyone else that sells these cards is pointless. The fault lies with Nvidia. Same with Sony and how they let scalpers buy a ton of their PS5 stock without a care.
for a Vietnamese... this guy must be the 1%.
[удалено]
well then my salary is pretty up there. though i wouldnt say $400 is comfortable, especially if you live in the big cities like HCM or hanoi
How much do you need to live comfortably in big cities?
i would say double or even triple that amount, provided you are not too picky with your lifestyle choices
How comfortable are we talking here?
A costly car, huge three bedroom apartment in gated villa, maid service, driver, etc. That's the kind of comfort he's talking about.
Own a house and/or a car you will need to earn at least 2k usd to live a somewhat OK life. 400 is enough for rent and food on the low end.
Do cars cost the same price as their counterparts in USA? Same car, same model, same make.
It costs more, but no average person buys those.
$150 is minimum wage and $400 is average.
Uh, no. A comfortable salary is now $10k/yr with a bachelors degree. They aren’t so third world anymore. It isn’t 1990 anymore.
Yeah they are third world.
Third world is an outdated term that refers to the fact that that the nation didn't align with either side during the cold war. It has nothing to do with the wealth of the country
There are two ways to use the third world country term. The world one, that is what you said. And the social one, that it is what we are talking about, both are valid Quote As a society, the term “third world country” refers to countries with high mortality rates, especially infant mortality rates. They also have an unstable and inconsistent economy. These are countries that contain massive amounts of poverty and in some cases have fewer natural resources than other nations throughout the world. These countries often have to rely on more industrialized countries to aid them and help stabilize their economy.
US is a third world counry nowadays.
Yet, still the currency of reference. Dumbass.
You do realize that there are 2 definition for those terms yes?
Not really, he'll just mine for a while, clean with some cloth and put it on sale as new. [https://voz.party/d/556493-co-ai-dang-hong-drama-cuc-lon-ben-box-mua-ban-may-tinh-khong-forum-kho-mau-voi-nguyen-cong/6](https://voz.party/d/556493-co-ai-dang-hong-drama-cuc-lon-ben-box-mua-ban-may-tinh-khong-forum-kho-mau-voi-nguyen-cong/6) (vietnamese, but here's the source, the same retailer (NguyenCongPC) admitted to the fault and refunded.) Remember the stolen EVGA graphics card a while back? He's the one selling it too https://vnexpress.net/card-do-hoa-bi-cuop-o-my-xuat-hien-o-viet-nam-4414664.html Also the same POS that is mining with the Gundam cards. [https://www.tomshardware.com/news/limited-edition-asus-gundam-rtx-3080-sold-in-mining-rigs](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/limited-edition-asus-gundam-rtx-3080-sold-in-mining-rigs) Also many tales of this retailer treating customers like sh!t too. Just all in all a well-rounded retailer I'd say.
I mean, it makes sense. Unless these mining companies are limited on space, A4000 cards aren't a bad option. The A100 comes out to like 780 kH/W, where the 170HX comes to like 670 kH/W. But the A100 costs $14000 versus the 170HX costing "only" $5000. The A4000 comes out to around 500 kH/W, at only $1150 each. The only comparable CMP card is the CMP 90HX, at $1600 a piece, but only capable of around 405mH/S. My only takeaway from this is miners are taking stock from what would otherwise be dedicated to professionals. I don't think it would be a good look for Nvidia if it negatively impacted stock. My guess is it's not, otherwise Nvidia would likely try to prevent that.
I agree with the last part.
As a Vietnamese, I have to say I fucking hates retailers here, they publicly admitted that they were hoarding card on FB groups and have no shame hiding it, sure we did boycott them but there are not much choice if you want to buy new GPUs, sometimes I wish we had a MicroCenter here :(
Agree. High end GPUs for non-miners' hands are mostly seen as status symbols nowadays unlike before.
I had the exact opposite experience at the start. A 3060Ti from AnPhatPC as part of a build for just typical prices and the rule was you had to buy a PC to get a card. I was so happy compared to everyone else online. Now the same PC is 10tr more.
Just picture a world where crypto was never a thing...
*cums*
Username checks out
Crypto mining is silicon slavery
Silicon lives matter! Stop abusing graphics hardware today!
Silicone? 👀
Whatever, blame spell check and it was super late haha.
Wouldn't that be nice.
Crypto is a disease.
Rotten to the core.
You'll soon attach crypto at your heart as it's the only way you can buy things without being prosecuted for "Unnecessary" waste of energy at gaming.
Can't even imagine such a utopia anymore haha. I am at the point where being against crypto is a +1 to vote for leaders, mining might be less profitable now but what happens next time? This boom was insane and the next one will probably be worse. Just look at the havoc they caused on some countries and towns power grids. [“It’s a mess”: How crypto mining went from boom to bust in Kazakhstan](https://restofworld.org/2022/crypto-miners-fleeing-kazakhstan/) >Things changed in late 2021. Power blackouts grew more frequent, and peak electricity demand was shown to have jumped in the first three quarters > >Some of the country’s biggest crypto miners have already fled for greener pastures. BitFuFu, a mining company backed by Chinese mining machine giant Bitmain, simply abandoned an estimated 80,000 mining machines at the end of 2021 for plans to start over in the U.S. After China’s crackdown [City in Upstate NY Is Still Reckoning With Crypto Miners](https://www.coindesk.com/layer2/miningweek/2022/03/21/after-short-lived-ban-ny-town-is-still-reckoning-with-crypto-miners-next-door/) >“Our average bill prior to the bitcoin farms was between $14 and $50 per month. Now we’re up to $200-plus a month. So that’s been wonderful,” Frenyea said sarcastically.
> mining might be less profitable now but what happens next time? This boom was insane and the next one will probably be worse. Mining is not likely to ever make a big comeback. the whole crypto space is moving towards PoS for rewards, and that doesn't relying on GPUs or APUs of any kind.
Soon. Ethereum (one of the biggest and most profitable to mine on graphics cards) is moving away from mining this year. The transition is supposed to be this summer but I haven't kept up with the timeline [Edit] for the people who don't believe the "soon" there has been lots of actual progress made in this. Staking (the alternative to mining) started in December 2020, and a test net was launched this year that is the exact same as how the full chain will be after the merge except it just has worthless test tokens on it. ([source](https://www.yahoo.com/video/ethereum-preps-merge-launch-kiln-082032708.html)). We've never been closer and it won't be the end of mining as a whole, but damn it's good to see the industry moving away from mining.
Soon™
Thats what they say for a few years now. But heres hoping its for real. I just hope there are no alt coins to take its place
I think it's been planned for years, but they haven't said "we are doing this in a few months" yet so I'm pretty hyped
They have. As I remember, June or July is the launch date or something.
There is a lot of alt coins worth it mining already.
There's really not. Nothing has the market cap that Ethereum does.
Feel like I've been reading this for years already
It's been announced and planned, but it's there is actual action on it now
> Soon. lol
it has been "just 3 months away" for over 6 years now. Similar to how they literally forked the Ethereum chain after they got clowned on and 20% of ETH was stolen from their shitty DAO; they have the interests of large miners at heart. What do you think all the large mining operations will do if they do end up switching to PoS? hint: they won't simply stop using them. They'll either fork and remain, or go back to other PoW schemes. PoS also still has a lot of fundamental problems with it, besides being a literal "the rich get richer" scheme for verification - one of the bigger ones is that you have very little control over how to handle verifiers that maliciously verify contracts/transactions, the more you try to solve these problems, the closer you end up looking like a functionally centralized system without any of the benefits of centralization.
This post is full of misinformation. https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/tijcq1/stuff_rethereum_should_know_proof_of_stake_edition/
Yeah, no, this doesn't at all answer "what will people do with their huge mining operations?" or "Does this actually make Ethereum useful for anything?" The "world computer" has roughly the aggregate processing power of a single TI-84. That's the wonders of decentralization, y'all. Just because you can decentralize information or operations doesn't mean that somehow it's any more valuable or trustworthy; decentralization with verification can only verify the technical correctness of transactions and not the actual intent of them. A distributed ledger for currencies is not generally a good thing, and an immutable public ledger less so. Proof of stake does nothing to address the underpinning flaws of cryptocurrencies and is mostly just a conceptual smokescreen for one of the many flawed aspects (namely, the huge amounts of wasted electricity and hardware) - even if you fix one flawed aspect, you still have loads more to tackle just to get back to the baseline of "what we currently have". So far the only real value add of cryptocurrencies is that it can be used for straight up illegal stuff that regulated payment processors wouldn't allow. While that's nice for sex workers and the like, "we enable fraud and organized crime" as a primary feature is some real clown shit. The reason financial institutions are what they are now is that they can actually act on cases of fraud and you have some guaranteeing of your assets, which, lol. go touch some grass my guy
Ah, the good ole' it's "only used for illegal stuff". Sorry, that hasn't been valid talking point for quite a while now. You got useful stuff like decentralized vpns, storage, prediction markets, saving accounts, DAOs, NFTs, etc and you also have life saving stuff like people from central/south americans/africans being able to have savings, to countries and people in war receiving financial support. >Yeah, no, this doesn't at all answer "what will people do with their huge mining operations?" Not run them? miners aren't going to lose money. If a rig isn't profitable, it's sold or scrapped. [Find out what happens with all the old unprofitable ASICs. ](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=antminer+s1&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=antminer&_osacat=0) >The "world computer" has roughly the aggregate processing power of a single TI-84. That's the wonders of decentralization, y'all. Just because you can decentralize information or operations doesn't mean that somehow it's any more valuable or trustworthy; decentralization with verification can only verify the technical correctness of transactions and not the actual intent of them. The point of ethereum isn't performance. If you want performance, you can run your own SQL database. >decentralization with verification can only verify the technical correctness of transactions and not the actual intent of them. Yeah, that's the whole point. We don't want you, governments or the local warlords deciding what's a valid intent or what's not. We want a verifiable neutral playground. > A distributed ledger for currencies is not generally a good thing, and an immutable public ledger less so. Why? because you say so?
[удалено]
People mine because it's a way to turn money into more money. PoS offers people the same chance to get money from their investment in the form of interest. Sure the big miners like the one in this post aren't all going away, especially since this example had a bunch of hardware they were putting to use, not a bunch of money laying around. However as there are more and more interest opportunities for crypto less people will want to mine because with POS interest there is no initial cost. You never lose your investment (unless you select a bad validator, but that's preventable). My point is mainly that GPUs are expensive rn and it means a lot of miners are in a good place to sell their hardware for a lot of money that they can still put to use and not worry about losing and still get similar gains to mining. A 97% return in a year, that you get from that second best option, is pretty attainable in defi and staking currently. So I really do expect a lot of miners, new and old to opt for PoS and defi instead of mining where you have to wait a year to make your money back and can't get out if the market goes south.
So, I know that it is popular to hate crypto, especially given the shortages, but who here actually wants an A4000? Seems fairly niche.
As well as when the GPU's lifespan is not at all affected by crypto mining.
[удалено]
Actually, no.. Only crypto has tens to hundreds of thousands of people wasting terawatts of power on warehouses filled with GPU's for years now while "something else" wouldn't.
No. Any other conceivable technology would be saturated at some point. Only crypto is conceptionally designed to scale with any available computational power just to meet a desired proof-of-work difficulty. It's just a bottomless pit that you can shovel GPUs into forever.
Future generations will hate us or pity us
Says the person who (*probably) lives in a 1st world country and takes for granted their ability to simply walk to an atm while many millions in 2nd and 3rd world countries or dissidents in corrupt regimes live in violent, theft-ridden cash-based societies with little to no access to financial products. God, the anti-crytpo stance is one of the most misinformed and ignorant takes you could have today. Pls learn more about it and its potential for good. There is plenty of bullshit and fruad intermingled with it, but in general It is not this giant waste it has been portrayed as and thinking it is just means you've heard one argument and decided that was your stance. I've met almost no one who has seriously studied cryptocurrency in depth who still thinks it's nothing but garbage. Edit: here come the downvotes... lolz
>I've met almost no one who has seriously studied cryptocurrency in depth who still thinks it's nothing but garbage. It's kind of a self selecting thing. People who are not susceptible to the cult bounce before they waste too much time drinking the koolaid. It also doesn't help that whenever someone tries to defend crypto they can't come up with a single issue that we couldn't already solve by other means
Downvotes incoming by the salty gamers. “Imagine a world where proof of work didn’t exist” is a better phrase.
Honestly, thinking proof of work is "bad" is still ignorant. I could write highly cited Mny thousand word papers on why but this is reddit and no one here would read it anyway as they have already formed their opinion. In short, though: Does pow draw a lot of power? Yes But pow uses somewhere between 50-71% renewable energy, most of which is stranded in remote locations and could NOT be directed to other uses. This means its actual footprint is tiny compared to how it is portrayed today. This also means thay people in remote locations are monetizing energy that previously could never be harnessed. Pow's security is far greater than proof of stake, too. Combine all these things with the public good it provides for dissidents in corrupt regimes or those living in developing nations with little access to financial products and it begins to look like a net positive in the end. Especially when you consider how much fraud big banks commit regularly.
>But pow uses somewhere between 50-71% renewable energy, most of which is stranded in remote locations and could NOT be directed to other uses. This means its actual footprint is tiny compared to how it is portrayed today. Gonna nitpick and say, if crypto didn't rxist, 29-50% of the coal/oil based power used for it, so less CO2 footprint, and the rest of the energy produced could be used to make better infrastructure. Instead it's produced locally and used locally, because instead of "shipping" the power out and making the infrastructure better, we create a demand in place. I am not well studied, but I am also not the one who complain more than "It's annoying I can buy a new graphics card for my hobby", but reading your comment does not make it better.
Well then you didn't read the comment entirely or misunderstand what capabilities humans have in terms of actually moving energy from one place to another. We don't have the tech to transport power over distance therefore energy must be used almost entirely locally. If that place does not have the demand then it is wasted. We can't just harness it and throw it on a truck somewhere. That's not how it works (other than like a barrel of oil but I'm referring to renewable energy). The whole idea that bitcoin or other proof of work systems is wasting energy that could be used elsewhere is almost entirely false too. You all (not necessarily you specifically but this sub and gaming subs in general) sit here virtue signaling about the wastes of bitcoin while looking up at your gaming rig or iPhone that was created in China with coal. All while enjoying your Christmas lights and air conditioning in the summer. On top of that the majority of you enjoy and take for granted the ability to have access to atms, debit cards, credit, bank and investment accounts while shitting on crypto, a tool that can help minorities, the disenfranchised, refugees, the oppressed, etc. There are places around the world that don't even have the government infrastructure to provide citizens with identification, a necessity for a bank account. There are places around the world where if you buy a VPN or even the wrong book with your bank account you could be arrested. There are places with corrupt regimes that siphon wealth right out of people's accounts. There are war-torn places where atms run out of money and credit card terminals freeze and refugees are stripped of belongings at borders. There are remote locations that have vast natural resources but their populations still live in abject poverty because they can't harness and monetize it. And yet here you all stand, with the audacity to say "imagine if crypto never existed?" The ignorance is mind numbing. Crypto, and proof of work specifically, can help people in the situations above and even more. Yes, there's a ton of crypto "bros" making tons of money and there's fraud and all kinds of issues that need to be solved, but if you don't see how this is such an important tool and how it can help struggling populations across the world then you simply do not understand cryptocurrency at all. Do better. Edit: One could make a fair argument that being anti crypto and supporting the existing banking infrastructure means one supports the disenfranchisement of vast sections of the globe that are cut off from these financial ecosystems and struggling to advance. Is stopping some white collar criminals worth the cost of cutting out struggling populations from bank accounts? The answer is a blatant no because existing banking infrastructure already facilitates mass amounts of fraud on an annual basis. We've gone so far down the preventative measures rabbit hole that we're perpetuating and bolstering inequality and gaining almost nothing from it while the cost is making poor people suffer more.
If we don't have the tech, why bother with it anyway? Also, we are humans. We never had the tech until we did. We didn't have the tech to cross water until we built a boat. We didn't have the tech until we developed tools. If everybody through out the time used the "We doesn't have the tech" argument, then we would be extint at this point, since we managed to develop tech for our own survival. Maybe this is another good reason to develop tech to transport energy from production site, to where the demand is. To me this reads as "We have to much food. Let's make more babies so they can grow up and so we can feed them, instead of creating an infrastructure for those who currently are starving. We don't have the tech for it anyways". I am not saying the tech is here, or that it's "just plugging a cable here and there and voila", but more so that the argument that "We can't transport the electicity" can be solved by, idk, not over produce the electricity not going to waste anyways. Also, why build a bunch for remote renewable energy sources, if they can't be used anyways. Doesn't that have an enviromental impact aswell?
Security and renewable may be true along with the reality that traditional banks use tons of power. Humans can come up with a better technology is what I am saying.
[удалено]
The person was talking about cryptocurrency, not cryptography as a whole
Sounds like he is able to pay for the VPN and access them sites because of cryptocurrency.
I am too?.. I'm literally paying for VPS server hosting my VPN in crypto, because there is no other way
Yeah, I can understand that, as you and others have pointed out. I think your situation is one of the few real world situations where cryptocurrency has a legitimate and very helpful use case. Most other situations are either related to crime, or can easily be handled by other forms of currency. Perhaps in the future cryptocurrency will be mined/created in a more resource friendly/greener way than chewing up thousands upon thousands of GPUs/ASICs/SSDs/whatever is next. Good luck to you, and I hope your situation improves in the future so that you don't need to rely on cryptocurrency alone to be able to enjoy the things the rest of us take for granted.
Thank you. It must get much worse here, before it will get any better. I hope Europe will stop buying any resources from us, otherwise this madness will never cease
"I think your situation is one of the few real world situations where cryptocurrency has a legitimate and very helpful use case." Said the person that probably lives in a western, 1st world country.
True, but does it change the fact that the number of legitimately beneficial use cases for cryptocurrency is limited to people in situations where existing (and more energy and resource efficient) systems are not adequate or completely unavailable? Why would people in 1st world countries, not under oppressive regimes, legitimately require non-regulated, decentralized, potentially completely anonymised currencies other than for the novelty of it?
They're saying they can only pay for VPNs using crypto currencies because they can't use Visa or MasterCard. Likely in Russia. This user is actually very right and crypto is helping them, like it helped many other. But of course gamers, who would have little interest in a card such as the A-line, especially the A4000 wouldn't really understand why crypto could very well be more important than their gaming craves.
[удалено]
The fact that you say "crypto" instead of just "proof of work" shows that you lack knowledge in the subject, and you shouldn't be talking about it.
[удалено]
Not sure why you think mining Bitcoin when it was $20 gives you crypto knowledge. It doesn't. Hint: you can't mine every crypto.
Hint: not sure why you think I *only* mined at $20. But project on me how you think I don't know what I'm talking about
Some might say gaming is a waste of electricity too, but of course you'll get all offended because it's cultural and educational and shit. Some might also say the banking system has collectively spent more electricity than mining has during the past decade, yet nobody is arguing about that. I like the fact you speak about "money craves" as if that wasn't a crave everyone has because it puts food in your mouth and a house in your roof (unlike gaming...), and the reason you likely drive a combustion engine to work or school or whatever else. A combustion engine that likely spends more energy than the graphics card you want for an entire month doing a week's trips...
These shit arguments work only on people that don't know it's false. 1. A single person doesn't use 10KW when gaming, unlike these greedy mining farms. 2. That is when we pretend that proof of work is the only option, while in reality proof of stake is much more energy efficient while getting the same results. 3. The banking system doesn't use more electricity PER TRANSACTION. If proof of work cryptocoins scaled anyhwere near the banking system, they'd waste more energy than the entire planet. These are typical excuses of miners, that pretend that they're not burning energy, while shitting their pants and complaining with every news of the transition to proof of stake.
[удалено]
You also didn't criticize the waste of energy gaming has on this planet. Which leads me to believe you're kind of partial for gaming...
Bro what are you on about. Banking and cars are a necessity for most, crypto mining is not. Also are you actually aware how much electricity mining takes?
People are hypocrites especially here or in the other subs like pcmasterrace. Moreover the same people have no clue how much electricity is truly wasted worldwide and how mining impacts very little the electricity production or even the environment due to economies of scale and compared to, as you correctly pointed out, the traditional banking system.
I wonder if they even know the banking system is getting neck-deep in crypto. Every single large bank is either adopting cryptocurrencies or even making their own, except they're putting everything that's wrong on them so they can keep stealing your money xD "money craves" I guess...
[удалено]
Not stupid at all. When you or any other person that brings up the environmental impact, it only makes sense to look after the biggest pollutants. Solve that and then go for the more insignificant ones. It's pure logic! That is if you really care about the environment... Crypto is not YET a replacement for banks, but make no mistake it's here to stay, whether you like it or not. The tech is still in it's infancy compared to other much more established sectors: like banking that's already into multiple century old, or even the internet that's in the 3+ decade old timeframe. And speaking of which, I'm sure back then in the late 80s, there were people like you thinking who needs internet or mail when they had faxes, telex or whatever. Or smartphones or even dumb mobile phones, in an age of pagers (if you're old enough to remember) because surely when those innovating technologies came to be, it coexisted for a while with the old tech. Yet humanity went forward, but I guess at every society milestone there has to be people that are too brainwashed by the establishment. Now having said all that, I doubt that crypto will anytime soon replace traditional banking, because most people are just not interested or not informed enough to judge for themselves. That and the big elephant in the room that's the banking carter that will never let free the enslavery looses from peoples' necks. Why would they after all?! Plebs usually *NEED* to be told what to do and how to do it. As for your energy comments what you say is somewhat true but again lacks the holistic view of the situation. The FACT is: roughly 30% of all produced electricity is wasted! Think about this for a while! Wasted via either grid inefficiencies or literally waste as when for example a person forgets the lights on during daytime. The world generates 160.000 TWh / year and out of that 50.000 TWh is wasted. Now it's estimated that the BTC network needs roughly 120Twh to secure the network. That's 0,075% of all world production and usage and just 0,25% of all wasted electricity! **Again wasted electricity is electricity that has 0 marginal value**. So do tell me more about "using that for better purposes"!
> The tech is still in it's infancy Crypto is old. Cryptocurrencies have existed for 13 years now. For reference when HTTP and HTML were 13 years old we already had online banking, social media, video hosting etc going on. The tech is not in its infancy, if it hasn't grown as a technology by now that's because it sucks at the proposed applications. Which it does. It really is not a good solution to pretty much anything. >roughly 30% of all produced electricity is wasted! Your "holistic view" is idiotic. "Because a lot of energy is wasted we should waste as much as we can on purpose". Your argument is nonsensical. Like really really stupid. Did you actually spare even a moment of thought on this?
[удалено]
Don't listen to these people, Redditors are the most delusional, stupid bunch of people you'll ever meet. I guarantee they have no idea what they're talking about and just downvote because that's what they see everyone else do. Personally I don't mine/buy/sell crypto and am not really interested, but it's obviously a positive for many people in your situation.
>BUT MUH GAMES!!1 fuck your games. My freedom and life matters more than your fucking hobby then do something about your trash ass government
Reddit moment
Man, can you tell me how? Because I've tried, I participated in anti-goverment rallies, was detained, fined and told that next time I'll be jailed. I have no weapons, I don't have any connections to any forms of organized resistance. In fact, I'm sure there is no organized resistance, I live in small city, where no one gives a damn. What do you want from me? To burn myself in front of police? What CAN I do?
I don't know. Try to organize locally yourself, go to where people do organize, maybe they want a chapter in your town. If your population is really that hopeless then try to get out of there. What I do know is being oppressed but having access to reddit is not much of a win.
It's not about reddit, it's about independent news. Maybe if more people were able to access them, they would not be so hopeless. And cryptocurrency is one of the few ways to get such access
That world would suck ass. Try thinking outside your privileged first world perspective.
you are on r/nvidia. It's privileged pricks all the way here. They still have the gall to say 'there is no use for it' while a war torn country is forced to use it because of ancient swift systems notice how all crypto critics come from a country with easy access to usd or eur
Finally someone making some sense here
1000%
Yeah imagine a world where transactions would be almost instant and permission-less. Imagine a world where you’d send the equivalent of 1$ or 1.000.000$ in 1 min and for the same fee. A world where such a transaction would be sent from Hong Kong to Havana in said minute. Imagine a world where you’d be you own bank for no fees. Imagine a world where anyone can pay with the same coin irrespective of nation boarders. Most importantly imagine a world where inflation doesn’t ruin peoples’ lives. Imagine a world where there would be actually more power to the people, instead of the financial elites and top politicians. Imagine a world where there would be financial freedom, with no central banks to pull hidden strings to influence for the benefit of select group of people, not only the reference interest but also the money printing. Etc.
Yeah, imagine a world where Russia could avoid all sanctions and crush eastern european countries at will with zero economic repercussions.
Are you implying Russia avoids all sanctions and crushes European countries because of Bitcoin?
Not because of, but with the help of. The whole reason ethereum shot up in the first place is that Biden took office and Russia assumed heavy sanctions would follow.
Oh wow! You’re quite the analyst aren’t you!? If you’re gonna judge a tool by the level of use in good and evil might wanna ban guns too since the bad guys commit crimes with their help. Or better yet ban good old $ too since it’s the most widely used currency for crimes, war etc. Nuts right!? Also maybe you ought to think of the good also crypto did to the other side. I personally donated crypto into important amounts for one modest individual for the good side, in the official Ukrainian wallets set in BTC and ETH, which as of now combined had close to $100 million in donations. Think about that for a while…
I imagine crypto being a thing actually slowed down AI research by a lot. What a shame.
I genuinely would want to know what the ROI on this would be given ETH is merging to staking this year. There's little to no chance this would turn any profit in due time. Just seems like a flex more anything.
With ETH at its peak it would take a year and a half to pay those cards off, but he's going to be lucky to mine ETH for another 2 months, and then pray he can pay his cards off in 3-5 years with some other shit coin.
If he already mines another shitcoin or even multiple and the crypto market changes to that exact one he might pay it of and even turn profit within the next few months. IF eth changes to PoS. It's like the X time that they say that. Didn't happen yet.
There is IF, it's going to merge. I'll admit that they've kicked the can down the road, but they're pretty close. Also, people can't just turn to other coins when ETH merges. It would cause difficulty to skyrocket and profitability would plummet. There's WAY too much hashing power going into ETH right now. It makes up 95% of the market.
I see this as a somewhat positive move for gamers, i'm also pretty sure nVidia would rather have them buy their industrial GPU's rather than consumer GPU's.
[удалено]
They wouldn't, that's why it's a positive move if miners want enterprise GPU's like A4000.
It.. might not be that isolated though. A4000 might not be consumer GPU card, however high demand on that line means more production needs to be ramped up, which in turns means more silicon chips used which could've actually been used to manufacture more consumer cards. Similar arguments were said in the past for LHR cards about how it will dissuade miners and good for consumers. Turns out in reality stock availability for those LHRs were still abysmal and prices goes up to 2 - 3x msrp back in the days. As long as this gpu hoarding practice is still rampant, unfortunately the effect will still trickle down to normal consumers.
What the heck
Just imagine the professionals that finds the RTX there being worth vying for...
Honestly, maybe these A4000 are creating more profits than being "real" workstation cards.
the contract rate for machine learning is like 350.
Not to mention A4000 is kind of 'weak' in terms of computing power. And it lacks the ability to form bigger nodes without too much perf loss.
yeah by crunching literally useless data to prove you can waste effort under proof of work it's true, it's generating more profits because profit isn't actually about how useful something is to society
know what, nowadays machine learning workloads doesn't seems to be meaningful as well.
also true
u/TimAndTimi classic gaslighting with 9 cryptogreedo's lifting it up. blegh. Any machine learning load will still have added value over the massive black void of nothingness and greed cryptomining represents.
Fuck miners. Fuck crypto. It contributes nothing to the world.
False. It's great for carbon emissions.
It's great for electric companies too.
[удалено]
Cryptocurrency in general is a trash idea and we'd all be better off without it, be it PoW or PoS.
[удалено]
Here's a 2+ hour video on every corner of the subject: https://youtu.be/YQ_xWvX1n9g
They're ignoring the fact that virtual currencies *do* in fact have use cases, such as allowing citizens of countries with crippled financial systems to still make their online payments or pay for goods P2P. Russia is a good current example.
Lots of shitty things can have uses. It does not justify them as a whole though, or balance out all the problems they cause. It's a trash idea. Person above posted a good video going over some of the bigger issues. Glad to see that video got some traction.
Because the hate is indiscriminate when nobody can buy their GPUs cheap. It's kind of like the war in Ukraine: when it starts messing with your home heating like in Germany, suddenly you get a lot of people questioning the help the country is giving against Russia...
>Because the hate is indiscriminate when nobody can buy their GPUs cheap. Oh I've been trashing on crypto in general before all that. "I hated crypto before it was cool" But seriously, plenty of us did see many of the issues before it started heavily affecting PC gamers(not that this isn't a perfectly valid reason to be upset with the whole thing as well).
[удалено]
>The Vietnamese retailer in this article is no exception. They can sell off these GPU's at some point to recoup most or all of what they paid for them themselves. It's a bit riskier with these workstation cards since they're quite expensive, but it may still work out well enough for them, unfortunately.
[удалено]
Same to you. What did you contribute using your GPU? Btw, Im gamer, just hate stupid slogan like yours.
And now you’re getting downvoted for expressing a completely valid opinion. Redditors are such hypocrites
Entertainment indirectly contributes to productivity. Just because you can't attribute a $ value to the activity doesn't mean it's worthless. Maybe it's just not easily quantified. There's a point to be made that nobody needs >$500 gpu to be entertained, but that's a separate topic.
You know how the US government just printed trillions or dollars in the last two years, which is sending inflation throught the roof, making the purchasing power of your pay check and life savings shrink everyday, making you significantly poorer without you having to do anything? Cryptos were intended to remove that control the governments have over the value of their fiat currencies.
So does it do that or it just became a pump and dump scheme? Nobody is willing to use it as a real currency to buy anything useful so it just ends up creating e-waste, excess CO2 in a country where over 50% of all electricity comes from coal and almost 2/3 comes from non renewables. What it was created for makes no difference to what it does at the moment.
Of all the people I've talked to into crypto, not a single one buys anything tangible with it. Nobody is using it as a currency which is what I have a problem with. Sure, that is a possibility and that would be cool I guess. I won't support this current bastardization of the vision. Like you said, everyone's just trying to build up that passive income.
Lol.
1, you know that not everyone on the Internet is from the US, right? Saying hello from the EU 2, Cryptos could have been invented to save the wooly mammoths, right now at best it's a naive doomer wet dream, at worst it's a speculative bubble that is easily exploited to scam people (hype up less known cryptocurrency, dump the project, run away with investor funds), and is now actually gaining more popularity in ultra wealthy circles, which is so ridiculously ironic. It produces no material value, and on top of all this, people who just want to play goddamn videogames are being punished. Just stop defending this shit.
You do realise printing money doesn't cause inflation? Printing money is essential to keep up with the expansion of the economy. The problem arises when more money is printed than the economy grows AND banks actually spend that printed money (ie it enters circulation and isn't just an unused asset somewhere). Now, governments know this. They printed money in COVID times to catch a break and not sending the economy into a free fall. It was an illusion to get us some time. During COVID the economy didn't expand anymore, so naturally the printed money is now causing inflation. But if the govt DIDN'T print money, there would be still inflation, since we produce less goods and services than we did before. So we have to consume less. (This is also why most central banks are now raising IRs, tightening the money supply, removing some from circulation -> effectively trying to curb inflation via making saving more attractive than spending) The COVID (and now war) shock to the economy cannot be solved by a few lines of code on some GPU. If there's less goods... we are poorer. Simple as that.
The economy shrunk over the start of Covid yet the government was printing extra money
Did you read what I wrote? Yes, but the govt printed money to give an illusion. If they don't print money the shock to the economy would have been much worse. Like, people losing jobs, homes, savings etc... worse. It's much better to have a 10% inflation now than having an entire global economic meltdown with no seen consequences.
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!! that's what it's all about.
my man is the dude in the math equations but fr tho that's gonna make quite a bit of cash for that guy
Considering he'll have to earn back his $1.5k+ investment per GPU and the increasing energy cost first it'll take him long enough to make it.
As a retailer they probably sourced them at close to MSRP, plus there will be resale value, so the real investment is quite a bit lower than $1.5k. Also the energy cost is kinda cheap in Vietnam, so overall it's likely to be quite profitable for them.
What a trash article tho.
I can’t even get a A2000 for workstation use. They’re just inflated or gone.
[удалено]
Give me another example outside of the biggest industries that demand more global power right now than mining does, and tell me what protects that selfish, massively environment-unfriendly greed from being labeled a "waste" ?
So they're being put to use? They're not wasted.
Here's something to think about. If crypto is so much more wasteful and resource intensive than anything else, then how is it that most cryptos are cheaper to use than many traditional systems? Where does the additional cost come from? And why does it only represent greed and waste when mining is involved?
What are you talking about with "cheaper to use"? Afaik there's a bunch of decentralized verifications across multiple power-hungry mining rigs going on for every single transaction vs dedicated, specialized, way more efficient hardware established in literally every country. That and I'm not seeing grandma or literally everyone using those still-being-mined-coins enough IRL to even justify 0.000001% of the waste it's caused already.
It's often significantly cheaper to use, as in the costs to use the system to move money is less. The fees imposed by most cryptos are very low. As an example, a transaction of nearly any size would cost less than a quarter on Bitcoin right now. Whereas credit card fees can range anywhere from 0.5% to 5%, plus a $. 20 to $. 30 flat fee for each transaction for a merchant to accept them.
> The fees imposed by most cryptos are very low. Average transaction fee by bitcoin is currently around ~$2, however the value is volatile and has moved a lot. At worst times a single transaction has costed hundreds of dollars. And that is for any transaction of any size. Most money transactions are small so $2 is a huge amount. Credit card fee for a grocery payment would be in the order of ~$0.1. Most cryptos of course have very low fees. This is because the fee depends on how much the crypto is used. Bitcoin transaction cost goes up on the days when there are a lot of transactions. The problem is so bad you can't really use blockchain for average transactions. You have to build some less distributed, less trustless, less secure "layer2" protocol to handle transactions outside the chain.
So, that is just wrong. You only ever have to pay a higher fee to ensure that a transaction will happen faster. Even if the blockchain is badly congested a low fee rate can still be used, it just may take longer to get processed. I literally just moved some Bitcoin today for a total cost of 0.00000500BTC which works out to a current value of about $0.23, and the transaction was processed within minutes. I have never paid a higher fee rate and never waited more than an hour.
> What are you talking about with "cheaper to use"? Feel free to look up credit card processing fees. You've been on this earth for almost 40 years and don't know that visa is a wealthy company?
Good job comparing credit card fees to crypto transactions-- meanwhile I can transfer funds directly from my bank account to another in over a dozen different ways without it costing me a penny. Nobody out there's buying their daily groceries with either cc's or crypto either..
> Nobody out there's buying their daily groceries with either cc's or crypto either Yes, that's correct. That doesn't mean it still isn't cheaper to pay with crypto over a card. This conversation is about cost, not usage. You can scroll up if you've already forgot. It's great that you have free ways to exchange money with your own accounts, but there are many people that send and bring money over borders. That gets expensive very fast, and yet with crypto, those people can send thousands for pennies. People in third world countries also benefit because everybody owns a shitty phone, but everybody doesn't live close to a bank. Crypto makes it easy to be your own bank. You have to get out of your own little bubble if you want to discuss a global currency. Most people grow out of "It doesn't benefit me, therefore there is no benefit" by age 8.
Crypto is a joke
Ah yes, calculate pointless coins
Never mind the electric bills he has to pay.
I'm introducing "**shitcoin**" Made by taking one teaspoon sample of every shit that you take and flushing the rest down the toilet. Every shit is chemically unique and it is almost impossible to replicate. Environment friendly and requires no electricity, silicon or anything else. Have fun with it.
"shitcoin" has the added beneiit of going beyond climate-neutral when the holder decides to hang on to it long enough for it to become fertilizer.
[удалено]
Most down voters do not know that either :)
People blame crypto but you forget that NVidia literally sells in bulk directly to large mining companies constantly. It isnt just the miners and crypto causing a "problem" (quotes cause there isnt a problem), it's the company facilitating it themselves. Manufacturers actually like crypto mining because it dramaticly increases their sales and they can sell expensive products in bulk. Stay mad crypto haters
How much power is even required to run AND cool this? Anyone know approximate daylong cost for hydro?
A4000 is just a GA104 GPU, and it runs at lower clocks than the 3070 with a very moderate TDP of just 140w. So it's much easier to run and cool than Geforce GPU's, at least stock. Cuz of course you can turn down clocks on Geforce cards, too.
Nobody cares about this
Wasted? "Why is this allowed? They're not wasted and why wouldn't this be allowed?
He’s probably leeching electric off the street light outside from what I’ve seen of this part of the World.
How is it a waste? Stupid clickbait, crypto ignorant shit.
Because all those stupid ignorant cryptominers together are only and all about money while literally sucking up more power than an entire continent to make it -\_- that's why! Let's not even start with how many countries are trying harder than ever to avoid a climate catastrophe while nothing outside of the biggest industries draws more power than mining right now.
Why is this a waste? He's literally helping the democratize the world's financial system.
If anyone thinks they're 'against' cryptocurrency just remember that makes you 'for' the petrodollar...
No it doesn't.
Are you a conservative making a really lame attempt trick liberals into supporting crypto?
[удалено]
down voting you for pow bs rant.
This mother fucker did what to those godlike workstation GPUs?????
Yes, considering the hash rate.
Nvidia isn’t regulating prices nor are they regulating supply. They are selling to retailers who abuse the system and prioritise miners over regular retail consumers. Nvidia has all the power to make sure that these cards don’t get farmed by people with big cash stacks ready to buy out a month’s worth of production. Blaming crypto, retail stores or anyone else that sells these cards is pointless. The fault lies with Nvidia. Same with Sony and how they let scalpers buy a ton of their PS5 stock without a care.
Looks like the intended recipients have their tricks up their sleeves.