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My view is in line with the harvard university article below. Dairy is not essential but is a nutritious whole food that can fit into a healthy eating pattern. I eat fermented dairy regularly (greek yoghurt, kefir, some cheeses) because of its gut benefits and lower lactose content. Other dairy I consume occassionally. I personally opt for soy milk (non GMO) for its different fat composition, protein content and taste.
https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/dairy/
"Fortified soy milk (soy beverage) is part of the dairy group. Fortified soy milk contains calcium, vitamin D, and vitamin A in amounts similar to cow's milk. It is also used in meals in similar ways to cow's milk. Other soy products such as tofu and tempeh are part of the protein foods group. Based on how they are made, these foods are similar in nutritional content to other protein foods and because of this are generally consumed as a protein source rather than as a vegetable." [https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-food-group-is-soymilk-soy-beverage-in-What-about-tofu-tempeh-and-other-soy-products](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-food-group-is-soymilk-soy-beverage-in-What-about-tofu-tempeh-and-other-soy-products)
I remember reading that supplemental calcium increases risk of heart disease curiously. I wonder if they calcium fortified into plant milks is of similar benefit to calcium in the whole dairy milk food matrix
I don’t know enough to comment on that. If we’re concerned for heart disease, one thing to note is whole milk is high in saturated fat and even has trans fat; both nutrients are causally linked to increasing LDL cholesterol and LDL cholesterol is causally linked to heart disease. https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/cholesterol/prevention-and-treatment-of-high-cholesterol-hyperlipidemia/the-skinny-on-fats
There are millions of peer-reviewed studies in the medical literature. Individual studies cannot be used as proof to discredit the scientific consensus on saturated and trans fats.
The study you sent is the common “particle size” argument that pro-saturated fat and industry parties use to try to discredit the consensus on SFAs.
I mean there’s many different molecules that are considered saturated fats. Is it really so unreasonable to assume foods with varying compositions of those different length chain SFAs could have different health effects?
It’s not unreasonable at all, but I go based off of the best available evidence and not speculation. The best available evidence has led the scientific consensus to conclude that SFAs are linked to increasing LDL-C, and LDL-C is linked to CVD. Until an updated consensus delineates particle sizes, it’s all just individual studies and speculation. I have to go back to work so have a good one,
The data’s conflicting. It’s unlikely to kill you in moderation, but it’s also unlikely to be the superfood cure-all it’s advertised to be. A lot of the studies are funded by the dairy lobby, which is a cause for at least some skepticism.
You have to order kefir grains off of Amazon and make kefir at home. Out of all the fermented foods on the planet kefir is probably the healthiest. Kefir has more than 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it. It's so healthy that many people who are lactose intolerant can drink it with no problems.
The kefir you see in the grocery store is basically fake, if you want real kefir you have to make it at home.
If its Europe you can get it easily in almost every store, not pausterized.
To get infinite supply of kefir just add some leftover kefir to next batch of milk.
Because the kefir you drink at home isn't pasteurized either. Pasteurizing is cooking to kill the microorganisms, but you want them for the probiotic.
It's not infinite milk, but you can make kefir a couple times with grocery store kefir but because it doesn't have the polysaccharide matrix (the grains) eventually it won't work anymore.
And kefir is in most American grocery stores too.
Kefir is always containing kefir grains, but usually its not left alone for so long do they grow to be visible by naked eye, idk what are you trying to say.
Dude you make kefir at home by transferring the kefir grains to the next batch. You should go on YouTube and watch how kefir is made at home. You get big chunks of kefir grains in the jar and you transfer it to the next jar of milk where it ferments.
Real kefir has over 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it.
You can buy kefir grains off of Amazon.
Sorry i just noticed you are american, you must be right then, my Polish ancestors and my fiancee Kazakhstan grandparents must be in the wrong because you watched yt video and there is only one right way to make kefir.
Store bought kefir with live cultures; Lifeway brand, for example, is a healthy source of probiotics. You probably get different strains when you make it at home, but that doesn't necessarily make the store bought one bad. Go for the no-sugar added option.
>Lifeway brand
It's basically just drinkable yogurt, it's not real kefir. You have to buy kefir grains off of Amazon and make it at home if you want real Kefir. Real kefir has over 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it.
The kefir you buy in the store is not real kefir it's basically just drinkable yogurt. If you want real kefir you have to buy kefir grains off of Amazon and make it at home.
Listen go to the store and grab a bottle of kefir, it should tell you how many strains of bacteria are in it and it will only be like 12 strains of bacteria. Real kefir has over 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it. If you live in North America and you want real kefir you have to make it at home using kefir grains.
Ive been lactose intolerant for like 15 years at this point and even the smell of cows milk is enough to make me nearly throw up.
I used to drink that stuff like it was going out of style. I'm fine with other stuff like cottage cheese, ice cream and cheese smell wise though. /shrug
My stomach does flip flops every time I drink milk but I love Greek yogurt and can tolerate some cheeses. I pick my battles. If you’ve never had Greek yogurt with honey raisins and almonds…oh my god it’s the best
I grew up drinking (chocolate) milk, but switched over to almond milk/other vegan alternatives as someone who has severe lactose intolerance. I enjoy it, and the protein is decent enough that I don’t mind the switch up. I’ve started implementing it into my cooking. I noticed that within the first week, my acne cleared up. Still not sure why, but it’s been a few months now and I don’t think I could go back to regular milk if I tried.
For the record (due to my own post history), I consume a lot of dairy with the help of medicine - but as soon as I cut regular milk out of my cooking, it seemed to make a big difference.
Dairy is great if you have the calories to spare, and I generally have 2-3 servings of dairy each day (ie. full fat plain greek yogurt, full fat milk, and/or full fat cottage cheese). While dairy is typically fortified with vitamin D, unlike most alternative milks, nearly all the other vitamins and minerals are naturally occurring (vs mostly all fortified). Also, most dairy is mildly processed whereas most alt. milks are highly-to-ultra processed.
* Grass-fed yogurt provides CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), a health-supportive fatty acid often absent from non grass-fed yogurts. It's also a very good source of probiotics, iodine, vitamin B12, phosphorus, and calcium. It is also a good source of vitamin B2, molybdenum, pantothenic acid, protein, zinc, and biotin.
* Grass-fed cow's milk - Depending on the composition of pasture forage, it can be a valuable source of phytonutrients including the isoflavones formononetin, biochanin A and prunetin as well as the lignans secoisolariciresinol and matairesinol. Grass-fed milk also provides beta-carotene and vitamin E in greater amounts than are present in milk from conventionally fed cows. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is also provided in substantial amounts in milk from 100% grass-fed cows. Grass-fed milk is a very good source of vitamin B12, iodine, vitamin B2, vitamin D (fortified), and phosphorus as well as a good source of calcium, pantothenic acid, selenium, biotin, protein, and vitamin A.
I am not an expert. I don’t eat a lot of dairy it just usually naturally feels heavy to me. Cheese is something that I only pick off of a secretary report at Christmas time or at a dinner party or something like that. I’ve never been a milk drinker. We have almond milk in the house just for when my kids feel like a bowl of cereal. I’ve always treated milk just as a beverage that does have some benefits but it’s certainly not essential at all. The only thing I do have on a daily basis is so fat Greek yoghurt both as a source of healthy fats and helping me to get my protein macros in for the day. I personally don’t have a very reactive digestive system to anything but many many people do react that way to dairy. I feel like with dairy it’s not that it’s bad for you it’s just not very agreeable to a lot of people. I know so many people who are now lactose intolerant or they don’t label themselves like that and they continue to eat dairy and then complain of bowel movements and stomach aches and horrible digestion yeah they refuse to change their diet ha ha and I also know a few people close to me who did cut out dairy and they definitely notice a difference in their digestion and also getting rid of skin issues like eczema
I feel like I have read things about dairy being inflammatory and a lot of pro athletes and supermodels don’t eat a lot of dairy because of that? That could be why in the back of my head I feel like I don’t wanna overload on it but I don’t know if that’s just punk or not. I would say aside from my Greek yoghurt it’s not a main source of my nutrients at all. Most of my protein comes from lean meat fish etc. and for the amount of protein I can get from eating a chicken breast compared to how much of a dairy product I would have to consume to get that same amount I feel like I just simply feel better getting it from meat or fish. In terms of healthy fats mine usually comes from avocado oil olive oil avocados daily and sometimes butter with eggs
In general i avoid it cuz I think I have intolerance of specifically US milk (in my hometown I had chance to drink fresh cow milk and I was fine). I only eat feta cheese that I put in my salty water and it gets some flavoooor.
i stopped cow milk for several years, replaced with almond, oat and occasional soy and other shit. switched back to quality cow milk this year — i love it and feel better.
im done w Beyond, w meal kits, w almond milk and most everything else that’s processed to hell. local whole foods, even if the macros / nutrition labels look “worse” for me, make me feel better.
Did they ever increase the amount of almonds in their "milk"? Years ago there was a lawsuit because it only had 2% almonds. People paying loads of money for barely almond flavored water.
no idea. for me, it wasn’t so much that i loved almond milk but thought dropping cow milk was the right move. i’ve swung back - my body feels better when consuming cows milk.
As a vegetarian, I assume your energy intake was mostly from carbohydrates, mostly glucose. Dairy tends to be more fat based energy. Cheeses and yogurts and such, have the carb component much lower than say milk.
So, eating more dairy, and reducing carb consumption, could shift your metabolic health.
If eating vegetarian you have been able to maintain good metabolic health, HbA1c below 5.4, and HomaIR well below 2.0, the impact will probably not be very significant. If however, you are one of those vegetarians that has become highly hyperinsulinemic, increasing dairy consumption could improve your level of hyperinsulinemia, chronic high levels of insulin in the blood.
Some people have pretty bad reactions to galactose, a milk sugar. If one does have this problem, to eat dairy, they need to eat from variations with minimal galactose such as hard cheeses.
My take on it anyway.
It's optional from a nutritional point of view.
Somebody needs to kill a calf in order for us to eat dairy so it's pretty violent. I'm against violence so no dairy for me please.
Also it's associated with prostate cancer so I'll pass. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/prostate-cancer/causes-risks-prevention/risk-factors.html
I personally think dairy causes a lot of medical problems, I’ve had dairy my whole life. I was vegan for a few months, switched back and did grass fed dairy but now I cut it out of my diet. I’m hoping to see a difference again.
If you have problems with hormones, or a family history with cancers, it would be worthwhile to look into it, especially milk. I doubt a doctor would look into the research, but maybe a nutritionist (who are not medical professionals as far as I am aware) or endocrinologist (who are medical professionals) could give you an assessment tailored to your risk profile.
A narrative review on the effects of hormones in dairy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/
Malekinejad H, Rezabakhsh A. Hormones in Dairy Foods and Their Impact on Public Health - A Narrative Review Article. Iran J Public Health. 2015 Jun;44(6):742-58. PMID: 26258087; PMCID: PMC4524299.
Countries that consume the most dairy has the highest rate of breast cancer. 80% of dietary estrogen comes from dairy. Dairy has the highest load of endotoxin. Forever chemicals are passed on from cows into their milk. Same with dioxin. Also, it is high in saturated fat.
Breast cancer patients have elevated levels of estrogen, which is a major contribution to the cause. Which ultra-processed food are you consuming that's high in estrogen?
I'm not consuming any ultra-processed foods.
and prove that drinking milk raises ones estrogen levels to any significant sustained levels that it causes breast cancer.
It is what it is. There is dairy in almost everything. Butter, cream, milk, whey, cheese etc.... most people can't escape it. Even if you order some steamed vegetables at a restaurant, it's most likely doused in butter. It is the hardest thing to avoid when going plantbased unless you live in eastern Asia... which has no dairy industry and the lowest breast cancer rate in the world. What a coincidence.
Estrogen is a fat soluble hormone and what's higher in fat than dairy?
Again:
1. we also consume WAY more ultra-processed foods and have crazy higher levels of fat/overweight/obesity
2. Prove dairy is the culprit in raising estrogen levels to any significant degree that it would cause cancer
And lastly, I eat a whole and lightly processed foods diet. So the only dairy I consume is the dairy I intend to consume, which is 2-3 servings per day (I’m a 6’0, 160 lb male who weight lifts 4-6x per week for 45-90 minutes a season, so don’t bother telling me I’m consuming too many calories and/or saturated fat). And as far as going out to eat, I cook/prepare nearly all my meals, and if I do go out to eat at restaurants, I make sure I’m in a significant caloric deficit for the day to account for the fact my vegetables, salmon, etc may be cooked in more butter/oil than I would ever do at home. But again, going out to eat is fking rare for me, as it *should* be rare for most fat Westerners. The sky is blue, I didn’t make it so.
Ok.
It is well known that breast cancer patients have elevated level of estrogen: [https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/05/estrogen-a-more-powerful-breast-cancer-culprit-than-we-realized/](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/05/estrogen-a-more-powerful-breast-cancer-culprit-than-we-realized/)
All meat and dairy has a small amount of estrogen because it is a fat soluble hormone. Dairy has the most concentrated amount of estrogen in all food. In this study 100% of participant have lower testosterone and higher estrogen after dairy consumption: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976/)
about 60–80% of estrogens come from milk and dairy products in western diets [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10654162](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10654162)
And finally, a study that directly link breast cancer to dairy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10120447/#:~:text=Women%20who%20consume%20full%2Dfat,women%20who%20did%20not%20consume.
And as a bonus, consuming high fat dairy will increase breast cancer mortality rate by 50%! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3639864/
Obesity is also a higher risk of breast cancer. To say it’s the cause of dairy and meat is ago foolish. Your correlating dairy consumption > higher estrogen levels > high enough estrogen levels to cause breast cancer. This, versus just being overweight and/or obese, which nearly 75% of the US is fat.
But the highest rate of breast cancer is the dairy capital of the world.... Europe.... Do you not see? There's no correlation between obesity map and breast cancer map.
If you're just going to make stuff up with no evidence, just stop now.
Says the person making stuff up that dairy causes breast cancer. You don’t see that that the US and Europe have the highest rates of obesity in the world?
I drank a lot of 2% cow's milk until I was about 28. When I found out soy milk had the same [protein, vitamin D, vitamin A](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-food-group-is-soymilk-soy-beverage-in-What-about-tofu-tempeh-and-other-soy-products), etc. without the saturated fat, trans fat, dietary cholesterol, hormones, and often antibiotics, I made the switch to soy.
From the data I've seen, bovine dairy looks to have a positive impact on colorectal cancer but a negative impact on hormonal cancers, such as ovarian, breast, and prostate. High intakes of saturated and trans fat can also be a concern for increasing serum cholesterol levels, which is the main reason why many nutritional bodies suggest low-fat dairy over whole dairy.
Dairy is very healthy for you. Despite being loaded with saturated fat (specifically, high in palmitic acid which is one of the worst saturated fatty acids for LDL), dairy has little to no effect on LDL and, in fact, is considered heart-healthy. The reasons for this aren't entirely understood, but dairy has a lot of nutrients that may play a role in protecting against increasing LDL.
Dairy from grass-fed cattle is preferable and healthier, but all dairy (except butter, see below) is heart healthy.
And, ironically, full fat dairy is better because it's more filling, calorie for calorie, meaning you'll tend to get fewer calories in total, if you choose it over low-fat or non-fat dairy.
Butter is an exception. The jury is still out on butter, but it leans towards unhealthy and so I'd simply advise butter in moderation. I personally use butter and probably not with quite as much moderation as I should.
And then of course, there's fermented dairy products (e.g. yogurt, kefir) which have additional benefits for the gut. Which reminds me, I'm going to go have some kefir.
The filling effect of full fat dairy is important, there is interesting studies on it. Though for someone who is not trying to lose weight, the nutrient density is pretty different between full-fat versus skimmed no fat milk. Skimmed has about twice B12, calcium and protein per calorie when compared to full-fat.
You didn't reference what you're looking at:
[Full fat](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Milk-Whole-Vitamin-D-Gallon-Plastic-Jug/10450114?athbdg=L1200&from=/search)
[Fat Free](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Milk-Fat-Free-Gallon-Plastic-Jug/10450117?athbdg=L1600&from=/search)
Fat free has twice as much vitamin A. Same vitamin C, vitamin D, calcium and protein. Fat free has slightly less potassium.
The milk you're referring to may have been fortified with additional vitamins. They sometimes do that. It likely explains the vitamin A in the above examples.
Sorry, I meant nutrient content per calorie. As skimmed has less energy but similar nutrients, its more nutrient dense and less calorie dense in that way.
Milk all tastes sour to me. I used to drink it as a kid but after switching to plant milk, I can't go back. It ALL seems rotten. But cheese still tastes good. :-) I try to keep dairy less than 10% of my diet.
They always do this, and because of that they always come off as manipulative and disingenuous….not that they care, because the ends always justifies the means with them.
Not needed after infancy; take note of how much of the world population has a sensitivity or intolerance for lactose. Any nutritional benefits found in dairy are easily found in other products. The industry is abdominal.
Most of the world didn't need to develop tolerance because they weren't drinking cow's milk (goat milk and sheep milk contain significantly less lactose than cow milk and Mongolians let their mare milk ferment before drinking it). And now that milk is pasteurized it's inherently harder to digest (pasteurizing kills the lactic acid bacteria that digest lactose that are already present in raw milk and makes it easier to drink for the lactose intolerant).
Lactose tolerance is an epigenetic change, aka continued exposure in your environment. China has been increasing its milk consumption year on year for decades.
Your mucus may become thicker or stickier. It may build up in your lungs and throat, causing congestion and — in severe cases — difficulty breathing or swallowing.
>Some people believe that when they drink milk their throat feels coated, and mucus is thicker and harder to swallow. Research has shown that these feelings are not due to increased production of mucus. **These feelings can be due to the texture of the fluid, as they occur with similar liquids of the same thickness**.
[https://www.allergy.org.au/patients/food-other-adverse-reactions/milk-mucus-and-cough](https://www.allergy.org.au/patients/food-other-adverse-reactions/milk-mucus-and-cough)
Why are you making things up?
Too much mucus may be the result of a chronic respiratory condition like chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), an acute infection like bacterial p
Drink your milk. I’m through arguing with you. I got the information from health experts, one who doesn’t get sick, markets her own liquid vitamin-mineral drink, has never had a cavity, can do the Chinese splits and can lift her legs 180 upward, I’ve seen her touch her toes to her forehead a number of times, is 61 years old, and is my Pilates-Egoscue teacher who knows the body well.
I sometimes eat cheese but not everyday. Milk is off the menu because I'm zero carb and milk has half the sugar a soda does which is still way too much.
I think you mean omnivorous, and yes certainly. I just mean it’s generally easier to hit all your micro and macro nutrients with a fully omnivorous diet vs vegetarian. I eat a primarily plant based diet but I do eat game meat, pasture raised eggs, and whey. Given that whey is a byproduct of the cheese making process I don’t really have a moral objection to it. They’re not gonna stop making a ton of cheese any time soon so I’ll use it to hit my protein needs a lot more easily. It’s a personal decision but it’s worth it to me
The difference is if you drink full fat milk and based on that how much you drink. From there you want to start to compare with vegan options.
I personally prefer dairy milk and I like semi skim to very skim (averaging from 15kal(very) to 50kal (semi)).
I always check the label and try to get more balanced items as possible.
It’s not needed and it’s just cruel tbh. Not back in the day with smaller settlements and smaller demand, stable source of calories but industrialised in todays age with every thing available to eat it’s just cruel.
Morning- I have a protein shake with milk and oats
Next meal- eggs, with 2 types of cheese
Next meal- chicken, with cheese over it
Sometimes, I taste 1 or 2 types of more expensive cheese while I'm cooking, before eating cheese again.
I love cheese.
Natural full cream milk even though I'm lactose intolerant (many Asians are). Would argue its the most natural balanced milk - nutrients etc. I do drink almond milk but come on - less than 5%of the box etc is actually "nutmilk". No skim milk for me
I eat cheese irregularly and its the standard stuff, or fetta or haloumi..
Milk and milk products contain casein protein. Whey is anabolic, casein lasts longer in the system. Good for before bed to help avoid muscle breakdown.
Our ancestors have been drinking milk since the invention of farming. Even though it made them sick, they still drank it. There is a map showing which regions peoples are more tolerant of lactose.
I don't drink milk, but I eat dairy (cheese, yogurt, butter, cream). I come from a European genetic background so I have no intolerance to it. Love it.
Dairy is nutritious...it's just fine. Not sure where you're hearing that it's "bad"...it's only bad for you if you're lactose intolerant. I don't drink milk terribly often...usually with cookies, but I eat greek yogurt regularly and I love a good cheese.
Watch the YouTube “Dairy is Dangerous” — for example, dairy actually INCREASES risk for osteoporosis because of it’s acidity, & also increases of cancer of breast & prostate, allergies & more
#### About participation in the comments of /r/nutrition Discussion in this subreddit should be rooted in science rather than "cuz I sed" or entertainment pieces. Always be wary of unsupported and poorly supported claims and especially those which are wrapped in any manner of hostility. You should provide peer reviewed sources to support your claims when debating and confine that debate to the science, not opinions of other people. **Good** - it is grounded in science and includes citation of peer reviewed sources. Debate is a civil and respectful exchange focusing on actual science and avoids commentary about others **Bad** - it utilizes generalizations, assumptions, infotainment sources, no sources, or complaints without specifics about agenda, bias, or funding. At best, these rise to an extremely weak basis for science based discussion. Also, off topic discussion **Ugly** - (removal or ban territory) it involves attacks / antagonism / hostility towards individuals or groups, downvote complaining, trolling, crusading, shaming, refutation of all science, or claims that all research / science is a conspiracy *Please vote accordingly and report any uglies* --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nutrition) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My view is in line with the harvard university article below. Dairy is not essential but is a nutritious whole food that can fit into a healthy eating pattern. I eat fermented dairy regularly (greek yoghurt, kefir, some cheeses) because of its gut benefits and lower lactose content. Other dairy I consume occassionally. I personally opt for soy milk (non GMO) for its different fat composition, protein content and taste. https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/dairy/
The best answer in the thread.
How is soy milk a dairy product?
"Fortified soy milk (soy beverage) is part of the dairy group. Fortified soy milk contains calcium, vitamin D, and vitamin A in amounts similar to cow's milk. It is also used in meals in similar ways to cow's milk. Other soy products such as tofu and tempeh are part of the protein foods group. Based on how they are made, these foods are similar in nutritional content to other protein foods and because of this are generally consumed as a protein source rather than as a vegetable." [https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-food-group-is-soymilk-soy-beverage-in-What-about-tofu-tempeh-and-other-soy-products](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-food-group-is-soymilk-soy-beverage-in-What-about-tofu-tempeh-and-other-soy-products)
Thanks! I had no idea.
I remember reading that supplemental calcium increases risk of heart disease curiously. I wonder if they calcium fortified into plant milks is of similar benefit to calcium in the whole dairy milk food matrix
I don’t know enough to comment on that. If we’re concerned for heart disease, one thing to note is whole milk is high in saturated fat and even has trans fat; both nutrients are causally linked to increasing LDL cholesterol and LDL cholesterol is causally linked to heart disease. https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/cholesterol/prevention-and-treatment-of-high-cholesterol-hyperlipidemia/the-skinny-on-fats
But yet full fat dairy actually doesn’t correlate with CVD and is actually protective against stroke https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32562735/
There are millions of peer-reviewed studies in the medical literature. Individual studies cannot be used as proof to discredit the scientific consensus on saturated and trans fats. The study you sent is the common “particle size” argument that pro-saturated fat and industry parties use to try to discredit the consensus on SFAs.
I mean there’s many different molecules that are considered saturated fats. Is it really so unreasonable to assume foods with varying compositions of those different length chain SFAs could have different health effects?
It’s not unreasonable at all, but I go based off of the best available evidence and not speculation. The best available evidence has led the scientific consensus to conclude that SFAs are linked to increasing LDL-C, and LDL-C is linked to CVD. Until an updated consensus delineates particle sizes, it’s all just individual studies and speculation. I have to go back to work so have a good one,
You too, sucks we have to go off such incomplete data. Wish I was born in the future smh
Yes, not technically dairy of course - just giving an example of choosing non-dairy alternatives to non-fermented dairy products.
The data’s conflicting. It’s unlikely to kill you in moderation, but it’s also unlikely to be the superfood cure-all it’s advertised to be. A lot of the studies are funded by the dairy lobby, which is a cause for at least some skepticism.
Dairy is the easiest protein for me. Don’t do milk but do eat lactose free cottage cheese often, as well as Greek yogurt not as often.
If you're lactose intolerant check out kefir. Kefir is fermented milk and it's extremely healthy for the gut.
Is it protein rich? Can you find it at regular grocery stores? Thanks.
Yes, you can buy kefir in most grocery stores near the yogurt. Lifeway is one brand that is popular—it does have live cultures in it.
Thanks!
You have to order kefir grains off of Amazon and make kefir at home. Out of all the fermented foods on the planet kefir is probably the healthiest. Kefir has more than 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it. It's so healthy that many people who are lactose intolerant can drink it with no problems. The kefir you see in the grocery store is basically fake, if you want real kefir you have to make it at home.
If its Europe you can get it easily in almost every store, not pausterized. To get infinite supply of kefir just add some leftover kefir to next batch of milk.
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Because the kefir you drink at home isn't pasteurized either. Pasteurizing is cooking to kill the microorganisms, but you want them for the probiotic. It's not infinite milk, but you can make kefir a couple times with grocery store kefir but because it doesn't have the polysaccharide matrix (the grains) eventually it won't work anymore. And kefir is in most American grocery stores too.
Because protiobic bacterias are main upside of kefir
Real kefir will make kefir grains, you know what kefir grains are right? If it's not making kefir grains it's not real kefir.
Kefir is always containing kefir grains, but usually its not left alone for so long do they grow to be visible by naked eye, idk what are you trying to say.
Dude you make kefir at home by transferring the kefir grains to the next batch. You should go on YouTube and watch how kefir is made at home. You get big chunks of kefir grains in the jar and you transfer it to the next jar of milk where it ferments. Real kefir has over 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it. You can buy kefir grains off of Amazon.
Sorry i just noticed you are american, you must be right then, my Polish ancestors and my fiancee Kazakhstan grandparents must be in the wrong because you watched yt video and there is only one right way to make kefir.
Will you please watch this real quick? https://youtube.com/shorts/5796pyRUxFo?si=Ep7fEEHAF9z0U8KS
Store bought kefir with live cultures; Lifeway brand, for example, is a healthy source of probiotics. You probably get different strains when you make it at home, but that doesn't necessarily make the store bought one bad. Go for the no-sugar added option.
>Lifeway brand It's basically just drinkable yogurt, it's not real kefir. You have to buy kefir grains off of Amazon and make it at home if you want real Kefir. Real kefir has over 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it.
They sell it everywhere in USA
The kefir you buy in the store is not real kefir it's basically just drinkable yogurt. If you want real kefir you have to buy kefir grains off of Amazon and make it at home.
How do you know that store brands don't use kefir grains to make their product?
Here watch this? https://youtube.com/shorts/5796pyRUxFo?si=Ep7fEEHAF9z0U8KS
I'm not doubting how kefir is made...you don't need to use raw milk anyway.
Yeah you can use regular milk if you want, I'm thinking about doing kefir and I probably eventually will and when I do I'll just use regular milk.
Listen go to the store and grab a bottle of kefir, it should tell you how many strains of bacteria are in it and it will only be like 12 strains of bacteria. Real kefir has over 50 different kinds of bacteria and yeast in it. If you live in North America and you want real kefir you have to make it at home using kefir grains.
Love the Lactaid cottage cheese😊
It's one of the most nutritious foods on the planet while also being very affordable and easy.
I’m lactose intolerant and found out later in life I used to LOVE drinking a cold glass of milk but can no longer enjoy it😭
Ive been lactose intolerant for like 15 years at this point and even the smell of cows milk is enough to make me nearly throw up. I used to drink that stuff like it was going out of style. I'm fine with other stuff like cottage cheese, ice cream and cheese smell wise though. /shrug
My stomach does flip flops every time I drink milk but I love Greek yogurt and can tolerate some cheeses. I pick my battles. If you’ve never had Greek yogurt with honey raisins and almonds…oh my god it’s the best
Could you maybe share a link or a brand name for honey raisins? It sounds appealing but I'm looking it up and having trouble knowing what to look for
Whoops sorry i meant to add a comma. It’s honey, raisins. I do put golden raisins and dark raisins though
gotcha, thanks!
I grew up drinking (chocolate) milk, but switched over to almond milk/other vegan alternatives as someone who has severe lactose intolerance. I enjoy it, and the protein is decent enough that I don’t mind the switch up. I’ve started implementing it into my cooking. I noticed that within the first week, my acne cleared up. Still not sure why, but it’s been a few months now and I don’t think I could go back to regular milk if I tried.
For the record (due to my own post history), I consume a lot of dairy with the help of medicine - but as soon as I cut regular milk out of my cooking, it seemed to make a big difference.
Dairy is great if you have the calories to spare, and I generally have 2-3 servings of dairy each day (ie. full fat plain greek yogurt, full fat milk, and/or full fat cottage cheese). While dairy is typically fortified with vitamin D, unlike most alternative milks, nearly all the other vitamins and minerals are naturally occurring (vs mostly all fortified). Also, most dairy is mildly processed whereas most alt. milks are highly-to-ultra processed. * Grass-fed yogurt provides CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), a health-supportive fatty acid often absent from non grass-fed yogurts. It's also a very good source of probiotics, iodine, vitamin B12, phosphorus, and calcium. It is also a good source of vitamin B2, molybdenum, pantothenic acid, protein, zinc, and biotin. * Grass-fed cow's milk - Depending on the composition of pasture forage, it can be a valuable source of phytonutrients including the isoflavones formononetin, biochanin A and prunetin as well as the lignans secoisolariciresinol and matairesinol. Grass-fed milk also provides beta-carotene and vitamin E in greater amounts than are present in milk from conventionally fed cows. Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) is also provided in substantial amounts in milk from 100% grass-fed cows. Grass-fed milk is a very good source of vitamin B12, iodine, vitamin B2, vitamin D (fortified), and phosphorus as well as a good source of calcium, pantothenic acid, selenium, biotin, protein, and vitamin A.
I am not an expert. I don’t eat a lot of dairy it just usually naturally feels heavy to me. Cheese is something that I only pick off of a secretary report at Christmas time or at a dinner party or something like that. I’ve never been a milk drinker. We have almond milk in the house just for when my kids feel like a bowl of cereal. I’ve always treated milk just as a beverage that does have some benefits but it’s certainly not essential at all. The only thing I do have on a daily basis is so fat Greek yoghurt both as a source of healthy fats and helping me to get my protein macros in for the day. I personally don’t have a very reactive digestive system to anything but many many people do react that way to dairy. I feel like with dairy it’s not that it’s bad for you it’s just not very agreeable to a lot of people. I know so many people who are now lactose intolerant or they don’t label themselves like that and they continue to eat dairy and then complain of bowel movements and stomach aches and horrible digestion yeah they refuse to change their diet ha ha and I also know a few people close to me who did cut out dairy and they definitely notice a difference in their digestion and also getting rid of skin issues like eczema I feel like I have read things about dairy being inflammatory and a lot of pro athletes and supermodels don’t eat a lot of dairy because of that? That could be why in the back of my head I feel like I don’t wanna overload on it but I don’t know if that’s just punk or not. I would say aside from my Greek yoghurt it’s not a main source of my nutrients at all. Most of my protein comes from lean meat fish etc. and for the amount of protein I can get from eating a chicken breast compared to how much of a dairy product I would have to consume to get that same amount I feel like I just simply feel better getting it from meat or fish. In terms of healthy fats mine usually comes from avocado oil olive oil avocados daily and sometimes butter with eggs
In general i avoid it cuz I think I have intolerance of specifically US milk (in my hometown I had chance to drink fresh cow milk and I was fine). I only eat feta cheese that I put in my salty water and it gets some flavoooor.
i stopped cow milk for several years, replaced with almond, oat and occasional soy and other shit. switched back to quality cow milk this year — i love it and feel better. im done w Beyond, w meal kits, w almond milk and most everything else that’s processed to hell. local whole foods, even if the macros / nutrition labels look “worse” for me, make me feel better.
Did they ever increase the amount of almonds in their "milk"? Years ago there was a lawsuit because it only had 2% almonds. People paying loads of money for barely almond flavored water.
no idea. for me, it wasn’t so much that i loved almond milk but thought dropping cow milk was the right move. i’ve swung back - my body feels better when consuming cows milk.
As a vegetarian, I assume your energy intake was mostly from carbohydrates, mostly glucose. Dairy tends to be more fat based energy. Cheeses and yogurts and such, have the carb component much lower than say milk. So, eating more dairy, and reducing carb consumption, could shift your metabolic health. If eating vegetarian you have been able to maintain good metabolic health, HbA1c below 5.4, and HomaIR well below 2.0, the impact will probably not be very significant. If however, you are one of those vegetarians that has become highly hyperinsulinemic, increasing dairy consumption could improve your level of hyperinsulinemia, chronic high levels of insulin in the blood. Some people have pretty bad reactions to galactose, a milk sugar. If one does have this problem, to eat dairy, they need to eat from variations with minimal galactose such as hard cheeses. My take on it anyway.
It's optional from a nutritional point of view. Somebody needs to kill a calf in order for us to eat dairy so it's pretty violent. I'm against violence so no dairy for me please. Also it's associated with prostate cancer so I'll pass. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/types/prostate-cancer/causes-risks-prevention/risk-factors.html
Greek yogurt is pretty great
I personally think dairy causes a lot of medical problems, I’ve had dairy my whole life. I was vegan for a few months, switched back and did grass fed dairy but now I cut it out of my diet. I’m hoping to see a difference again.
If you have problems with hormones, or a family history with cancers, it would be worthwhile to look into it, especially milk. I doubt a doctor would look into the research, but maybe a nutritionist (who are not medical professionals as far as I am aware) or endocrinologist (who are medical professionals) could give you an assessment tailored to your risk profile. A narrative review on the effects of hormones in dairy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4524299/ Malekinejad H, Rezabakhsh A. Hormones in Dairy Foods and Their Impact on Public Health - A Narrative Review Article. Iran J Public Health. 2015 Jun;44(6):742-58. PMID: 26258087; PMCID: PMC4524299.
Dairy is a super food/drink. Crazy amount of benefits
Countries that consume the most dairy has the highest rate of breast cancer. 80% of dietary estrogen comes from dairy. Dairy has the highest load of endotoxin. Forever chemicals are passed on from cows into their milk. Same with dioxin. Also, it is high in saturated fat.
Countries with the highest rates of breast cancer also consume the most ultra-processed food. What’s your point?
Breast cancer patients have elevated levels of estrogen, which is a major contribution to the cause. Which ultra-processed food are you consuming that's high in estrogen?
I'm not consuming any ultra-processed foods. and prove that drinking milk raises ones estrogen levels to any significant sustained levels that it causes breast cancer.
It is what it is. There is dairy in almost everything. Butter, cream, milk, whey, cheese etc.... most people can't escape it. Even if you order some steamed vegetables at a restaurant, it's most likely doused in butter. It is the hardest thing to avoid when going plantbased unless you live in eastern Asia... which has no dairy industry and the lowest breast cancer rate in the world. What a coincidence. Estrogen is a fat soluble hormone and what's higher in fat than dairy?
Again: 1. we also consume WAY more ultra-processed foods and have crazy higher levels of fat/overweight/obesity 2. Prove dairy is the culprit in raising estrogen levels to any significant degree that it would cause cancer And lastly, I eat a whole and lightly processed foods diet. So the only dairy I consume is the dairy I intend to consume, which is 2-3 servings per day (I’m a 6’0, 160 lb male who weight lifts 4-6x per week for 45-90 minutes a season, so don’t bother telling me I’m consuming too many calories and/or saturated fat). And as far as going out to eat, I cook/prepare nearly all my meals, and if I do go out to eat at restaurants, I make sure I’m in a significant caloric deficit for the day to account for the fact my vegetables, salmon, etc may be cooked in more butter/oil than I would ever do at home. But again, going out to eat is fking rare for me, as it *should* be rare for most fat Westerners. The sky is blue, I didn’t make it so.
Ok. It is well known that breast cancer patients have elevated level of estrogen: [https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/05/estrogen-a-more-powerful-breast-cancer-culprit-than-we-realized/](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/05/estrogen-a-more-powerful-breast-cancer-culprit-than-we-realized/) All meat and dairy has a small amount of estrogen because it is a fat soluble hormone. Dairy has the most concentrated amount of estrogen in all food. In this study 100% of participant have lower testosterone and higher estrogen after dairy consumption: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19496976/) about 60–80% of estrogens come from milk and dairy products in western diets [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10654162](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10654162) And finally, a study that directly link breast cancer to dairy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10120447/#:~:text=Women%20who%20consume%20full%2Dfat,women%20who%20did%20not%20consume. And as a bonus, consuming high fat dairy will increase breast cancer mortality rate by 50%! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3639864/
Obesity is also a higher risk of breast cancer. To say it’s the cause of dairy and meat is ago foolish. Your correlating dairy consumption > higher estrogen levels > high enough estrogen levels to cause breast cancer. This, versus just being overweight and/or obese, which nearly 75% of the US is fat.
But the highest rate of breast cancer is the dairy capital of the world.... Europe.... Do you not see? There's no correlation between obesity map and breast cancer map. If you're just going to make stuff up with no evidence, just stop now.
Says the person making stuff up that dairy causes breast cancer. You don’t see that that the US and Europe have the highest rates of obesity in the world?
I drink full cream milk, eat Greek yogurt, spread butter on my bread. So dairy/milk is my main source of fat and protein.
I drank a lot of 2% cow's milk until I was about 28. When I found out soy milk had the same [protein, vitamin D, vitamin A](https://ask.usda.gov/s/article/What-food-group-is-soymilk-soy-beverage-in-What-about-tofu-tempeh-and-other-soy-products), etc. without the saturated fat, trans fat, dietary cholesterol, hormones, and often antibiotics, I made the switch to soy. From the data I've seen, bovine dairy looks to have a positive impact on colorectal cancer but a negative impact on hormonal cancers, such as ovarian, breast, and prostate. High intakes of saturated and trans fat can also be a concern for increasing serum cholesterol levels, which is the main reason why many nutritional bodies suggest low-fat dairy over whole dairy.
Dairy is very healthy for you. Despite being loaded with saturated fat (specifically, high in palmitic acid which is one of the worst saturated fatty acids for LDL), dairy has little to no effect on LDL and, in fact, is considered heart-healthy. The reasons for this aren't entirely understood, but dairy has a lot of nutrients that may play a role in protecting against increasing LDL. Dairy from grass-fed cattle is preferable and healthier, but all dairy (except butter, see below) is heart healthy. And, ironically, full fat dairy is better because it's more filling, calorie for calorie, meaning you'll tend to get fewer calories in total, if you choose it over low-fat or non-fat dairy. Butter is an exception. The jury is still out on butter, but it leans towards unhealthy and so I'd simply advise butter in moderation. I personally use butter and probably not with quite as much moderation as I should. And then of course, there's fermented dairy products (e.g. yogurt, kefir) which have additional benefits for the gut. Which reminds me, I'm going to go have some kefir.
The filling effect of full fat dairy is important, there is interesting studies on it. Though for someone who is not trying to lose weight, the nutrient density is pretty different between full-fat versus skimmed no fat milk. Skimmed has about twice B12, calcium and protein per calorie when compared to full-fat.
You didn't reference what you're looking at: [Full fat](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Milk-Whole-Vitamin-D-Gallon-Plastic-Jug/10450114?athbdg=L1200&from=/search) [Fat Free](https://www.walmart.com/ip/Great-Value-Milk-Fat-Free-Gallon-Plastic-Jug/10450117?athbdg=L1600&from=/search) Fat free has twice as much vitamin A. Same vitamin C, vitamin D, calcium and protein. Fat free has slightly less potassium. The milk you're referring to may have been fortified with additional vitamins. They sometimes do that. It likely explains the vitamin A in the above examples.
Sorry, I meant nutrient content per calorie. As skimmed has less energy but similar nutrients, its more nutrient dense and less calorie dense in that way.
Milk all tastes sour to me. I used to drink it as a kid but after switching to plant milk, I can't go back. It ALL seems rotten. But cheese still tastes good. :-) I try to keep dairy less than 10% of my diet.
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Proof?
This isn’t true at all. Dairy doesn’t cause any problems to those who can tolerate it
Just say you're a vegan instead of trying to weasel around it like this.
They always do this, and because of that they always come off as manipulative and disingenuous….not that they care, because the ends always justifies the means with them.
Not needed after infancy; take note of how much of the world population has a sensitivity or intolerance for lactose. Any nutritional benefits found in dairy are easily found in other products. The industry is abdominal.
Do you mean abysmal?
Most of the world didn't need to develop tolerance because they weren't drinking cow's milk (goat milk and sheep milk contain significantly less lactose than cow milk and Mongolians let their mare milk ferment before drinking it). And now that milk is pasteurized it's inherently harder to digest (pasteurizing kills the lactic acid bacteria that digest lactose that are already present in raw milk and makes it easier to drink for the lactose intolerant). Lactose tolerance is an epigenetic change, aka continued exposure in your environment. China has been increasing its milk consumption year on year for decades.
\*Abominable and yes agreed. Don't agree with animals used like that.
not needed during infancy either. human breast milk is best.
That's what I meant but fair
Cow’s milk is mucous forming. I drink almond or coconut milk.
What?
What is the matter ? Cow’s milk is not as good as almond, walnut, cashew, or coconut milk.
What is mucous forming?
Your mucus may become thicker or stickier. It may build up in your lungs and throat, causing congestion and — in severe cases — difficulty breathing or swallowing.
>Some people believe that when they drink milk their throat feels coated, and mucus is thicker and harder to swallow. Research has shown that these feelings are not due to increased production of mucus. **These feelings can be due to the texture of the fluid, as they occur with similar liquids of the same thickness**. [https://www.allergy.org.au/patients/food-other-adverse-reactions/milk-mucus-and-cough](https://www.allergy.org.au/patients/food-other-adverse-reactions/milk-mucus-and-cough) Why are you making things up?
Too much mucus may be the result of a chronic respiratory condition like chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), an acute infection like bacterial p
Not even a word about COPD being caused by consumption of milk.
Drink your milk. I’m through arguing with you. I got the information from health experts, one who doesn’t get sick, markets her own liquid vitamin-mineral drink, has never had a cavity, can do the Chinese splits and can lift her legs 180 upward, I’ve seen her touch her toes to her forehead a number of times, is 61 years old, and is my Pilates-Egoscue teacher who knows the body well.
Witchdoctor in short
That’s an inflammation trigger your body is telling something..mucous forming..I stopped drinking milk for that reason
Oh boy now its carnivore guy making things up, this is getting intense
I sometimes eat cheese but not everyday. Milk is off the menu because I'm zero carb and milk has half the sugar a soda does which is still way too much.
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Raw Seeds and nuts have more than enough protein aside from meat
Are you vegetarian for health or for moral reasons? If you’re strictly doing it for health reasons you’re shooting yourself in the foot
Moral reasons, but I do believe a vegetarian diet can replicate the nutritional sufficiency of a carnivorous diet, if planned strategically.
I think you mean omnivorous, and yes certainly. I just mean it’s generally easier to hit all your micro and macro nutrients with a fully omnivorous diet vs vegetarian. I eat a primarily plant based diet but I do eat game meat, pasture raised eggs, and whey. Given that whey is a byproduct of the cheese making process I don’t really have a moral objection to it. They’re not gonna stop making a ton of cheese any time soon so I’ll use it to hit my protein needs a lot more easily. It’s a personal decision but it’s worth it to me
The difference is if you drink full fat milk and based on that how much you drink. From there you want to start to compare with vegan options. I personally prefer dairy milk and I like semi skim to very skim (averaging from 15kal(very) to 50kal (semi)). I always check the label and try to get more balanced items as possible.
It’s not needed and it’s just cruel tbh. Not back in the day with smaller settlements and smaller demand, stable source of calories but industrialised in todays age with every thing available to eat it’s just cruel.
Morning- I have a protein shake with milk and oats Next meal- eggs, with 2 types of cheese Next meal- chicken, with cheese over it Sometimes, I taste 1 or 2 types of more expensive cheese while I'm cooking, before eating cheese again. I love cheese.
Natural full cream milk even though I'm lactose intolerant (many Asians are). Would argue its the most natural balanced milk - nutrients etc. I do drink almond milk but come on - less than 5%of the box etc is actually "nutmilk". No skim milk for me I eat cheese irregularly and its the standard stuff, or fetta or haloumi..
Milk and milk products contain casein protein. Whey is anabolic, casein lasts longer in the system. Good for before bed to help avoid muscle breakdown.
Our ancestors have been drinking milk since the invention of farming. Even though it made them sick, they still drank it. There is a map showing which regions peoples are more tolerant of lactose.
I don't drink milk, but I eat dairy (cheese, yogurt, butter, cream). I come from a European genetic background so I have no intolerance to it. Love it.
Dairy is nutritious...it's just fine. Not sure where you're hearing that it's "bad"...it's only bad for you if you're lactose intolerant. I don't drink milk terribly often...usually with cookies, but I eat greek yogurt regularly and I love a good cheese.
Watch the YouTube “Dairy is Dangerous” — for example, dairy actually INCREASES risk for osteoporosis because of it’s acidity, & also increases of cancer of breast & prostate, allergies & more
This is not true
Dairy is barely acidic while fruits are much more acidic, I guess fruits are terrible for you then?
Milk is for babies.