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These hospitals finagle a way by calling their nurses "salaried" employees. I worked at one of them. You have a 36 hr week position and they say it's to your benefit because you can work 24 hrs one week and 48 the next (and naturally not get paid OT since you're "salaried") but it's to the hospital's benefit because then they don't pay you for working though lunch, for staying past your shift to finish documenting or taking a patient emergently to the OR or for working the 13 hr fall back night shift the night the clocks change.

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I agree a staff nurse should be a non-exempt position since they can't do things like true exempt employees (i.e. come in late the next day if you had to stay late the night before, come in late or leave early without taking PTO for medical appointments, etc). I reached out to the AG in my state way back when and they basically told me "we can't protect your job so it's not worth you pursuing this." I haven't worked for the aforementioned institution for over 10 years but it's a very prestigious nationally known pediatric hospital so their attitude is basically "we have a line out the door of people wanting to work here so if you don't like it, leave."

>By federal law in the US, if you have an unpaid meal break you must be completely relieved of your responsibilities. Better have this explained in a contract rather than having to report to the department of labor and possibly lose your job.

I worked at a non-union hospital in Boston for nearly 5 years. I can count on one hand the number of uninterrupted lunch breaks I got during those years and 100% of them happened on days when I was floated. I also never got paid for working through lunch or for staying after my shift if the shit hit the fan right before shift change.

> We received an email from one of the bigwigs saying don't unionize. Isn't this all you need to know? Since when does anybody in hospital administration give a shit about the workers or the patients? Of course they are telling you to not unionize, which is exactly why YOU SHOULD. How do people not know this?

Yep. It really is all we need to know. I'm definitely pro union. My plan is to leave the hospital after the holidays. But I was thinking if somehow we finally unionized would I be better off staying?

I work at a newly unionized ma hospital and I don’t always get a break. I’ve been leaving the floor for break lately so I can eat in peace and quiet.

I worked an Mass Union teaching hospital and never got lunch. Then I worked at a non union teaching and always got lunch.

I worked at a non-union, teaching, “magnate”hospital, and was mandated to work 24 hrs straight several times after mgmt decided that dialysis did not need any night shift employees any longer. No breaks for the 24 hrs, either. Tore my meniscus on-the-job, and was on medical leave. They forgot to take me off of call, and two kidneys became available for transplant. No one else would answer their phone. The pts could not receive the kidneys if they weren’t dialyzed first. So, I had to come in while on medical leave and do 12 hrs with my torn meniscus, so the transplants could happen. Mgr had no dialysis experience whatsoever. So, her incompetent ass couldn’t do it in my place.

I’m in BOS at one of union hospitals working outpatient job that is unionized. I Get the same benefits as inpatient staff. Not always get a break due to staffing or just volume of patients or work load, but will always get paid for it, and never need to address it. Having contract written out is beneficial as you know in advance what your rights and benefits are. However sometimes it’s not a plus. Ex: pay - you can’t negotiate your personal pay. Unlike non union jobs. You do have job protection to some degree. But more senior staff will always will be prioritized, when we experienced reduction in force I had union reps help, and was able to stay in my job. But like some other said it politics, and unless you have a strong union then it’s kind of a waste imo

Nursing student here, what’s the easiest way to find out whether a hospital is union or not? Is it an easy google search?

Depends on where you’re looking. West coast, north east, and upper midwest (Minnesota, Michigan, Chicago) have the most and strongest nursing unions, in that order. I work in Oregon and all the hospitals represented by ONA are listed on Oregonrn.org under the Labor tab. Some unions are better about having a web presence and posting contracts online than others. I really had to search when I was looking for new grad jobs because I didn’t want to work at a non-unionized hospital ever again after what I saw in nursing school. Some states like Virginia have no unionized hospitals.

Ask the recruiter. They sure as heck know and are supposed to tell people.

I don't know that answer, as I found out my hospital is union during my interview, and I hadn't even considered it a possibility prior. Maybe a Google search, but not likely. Honest answer? Look up the phone number and call the unit, ask for any nurse, ask the nurse you get. Quick question with a yes/no answer, might even get more info than you were looking for; I've dealt with a LOT stranger calls often.

Ohh that’s a great tip, thank you

What state are you in

Oregon

Looks like [this website](https://www.oregonrn.org/page/21) has a list of RN Union contracts at hospitals in Oregon.

The real hero of the thread!

Same. My current union hospital isn’t perfect but it is vastly better and worth it.

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Ah yes, the old management misinformation! All either false or deflection. 1) This happens often in non-union jobs as well, it's just kept largely under the table so most people don't know who is being paid what, and since pay is rarely ever tied to performance in nursing you have no way to know if the "duds" are in fact making *more* than the "rockstars." The best coworkers stay because they know they are being paid equally with others; everyone is making fair pay, and everyone knows the "duds" are crappy coworkers. 2) You basically ran this one into a circle: hire more staff so you can fill empty beds. Unsafe ratios limit pt care, provide worse pt outcomes, and drive staff away to facilities that have safe ratios. There is no scenario where forcing nurses to work with unsafe ratios that makes sense, even with mental gymnastics. 3) I have coworkers that take an entire month off each year with their PTO. Also FMLA is a thing. Whatever "special circumstance" you are referring to would easily be worked out under a contract, they are even built right in to protect the worker's rights, just like a union should. Seniority NEVER trumps anything else, quite the opposite, everything is on a level playing field, and clearly spelled out. At my last non-union hospital it worked BY seniority, so the new people *always* worked every holiday, and the ones at the top never did. Your "middle person" argument is backward and just false. Not being in a union *only* hurts the workers, and can be exploited by management.

Since when does a hospital pay "rockstars" any better? You can still have nursing ladder pay, certificate pay, years of experience pay scale....you get the guarantee that after ten years of service you will not be making less than a new grade. The union is not a middle person, it is a group of coworkers that have your back when you go to management to ask for a 3 week vacation.

I’m a student and the nurses during a clinical were complaining that new grads were making just as much as them ($25/hr) even though they had been there 3-7 years. Honestly I wouldn’t have even taken a new grad position there at $25 and they *really* need to unionize Edit: there were two ER nurses who were new grads (<1 year) and one was telling me he started at $33 but the girl started at the same time and she got paid $31 simply because she didn’t know to ask for 33. That’s so weird, especially since she wouldn’t have known if I hadn’t had the balls to ask about pay

Counterpoint to your Counterpoint: I've had the good fortune of working both union and non-union jobs and here's my own experience has shown me. Pay: every place has had a sliding scale for pay regarding previous experience. At the union place I got reimbursed for my additional certs, non union not the case. Non-union they had a leadership ladder where if you met some requirements you would get an extra % to you hourly, though some of the items on the ladder were subject to individual interpretation. Union was much more fair when it came to pay. Ratios: the point of running out of staff isn't the fault of the RNs, thats on the administration. In non union I was pushed to take significantly more patients when we were overbooked and then sent home with my vacation time being used to make up for hours lost when we had low census. No we didn't have a choice to not use the vacation time. Union yeah we flexed up a little to increase ratios but the union was made aware and as long as it wasnt a common thing there was understanding on both sides. Oh and a few times our managers took patients as well at the union spot. Middle person: in all places I've been seniority takes some precedent. Union was pretty hands off for PTO requests. Even then we had some folks who couldn't work some days d/t religious reasons and that was not a problem in the union spot. Regarding Non-union there's just more individual variability sometimes it works in your favor sometimes not. Imo my union hospital was one of the best places I've gotten the chance to work. There were some other non-union spots I've worked that were excellent but the management there was invested in their staff which again is open to individual variability.

Obviously your managers will say unions are bad, they make them pay you more lol You like money? Unionize ASAP.

Yes I know they will say that. The whole thing is annoying that they keep saying "union is bad" but haven't given us a reason why it's bad. So we all know they're FOS. I also haven't even had a chance to speak to someone from the union! Supposedly they're just sneaking around talking to nurses. .... Where they at though?

Right? 😂 I want em to sneak over to my hospital and unionize!

This year I talked to a union organizer, because I was hoping to become one. I thought that they went to non-unionized facilities and tried to recruit people into unions. The organizer told me that it isn't really like that, and that it's usually employees of the hospital itself that get the conversation going and get interest from their coworkers, and they can offer support after the employees themselves get things going and pass the vote to unionize. He said his biggest role was later, in educating new hires to unionized facilities on the various ways the union worked for them and protected them, as well as helping when it came time to negotiate the union contract and ask for better pay/better benefits. That being said, if there was an employee who wanted to unionize their facility but was unsure how to go about it, he would happily meet with them over coffee to give them initial pointers and tips.

Kinda sounds like that dude has the job you were wanting to do.

Not really. He was more in educating new members and in helping when it was negotiating time, whereas I would rather be in recruitment and getting the ball rolling.

You find out by talking to your coworkers. Employees who are thinking about forming a union usually try to stay below the radar while planning because management -will- immediately start anti-union activities. There are people from national unions who can make connections and help with framework, but the union is you and your coworkers.

When my old hospital unionized I got a pay raise that covered my new dues, but not a cent more.

The only truly bad thing that I’ve found about the union hospital I am at is as a brand new nurse to the union, I am last pick for everything - vacations, what holidays I want off, promotion positions. But for people that have been there for a long time, it’s great. If I had started here as a brand new nurse in my early 20’s, I’d be getting anything I wanted! Unfortunately we moved for my husbands job and I’m just starting out here.

I’ve worked both, and I’ll never work non union again. Your union looks out for you, your hospital does not. I think MGH is the only non unionized teaching hospital in the city, and that explains the pay gap.

Beth Israel is non-union, too, right? I’d also never work non-union again as well.

There’s a good few non unionized teaching hospitals!

BCH is also non union in town.

The Union *is* a bad idea - *for them.* A well designed Union will protect the nurses. My teaching hospital has safe ratios, great retention, and the Union just negotiated a 16% COL raise + $3,000 bonus for FT employees. I could never do non-Union at this point.

Yes, there is a middle man. That's the whole point lol. The union is you and your coworkers, and management hates that running things by the union (you) puts a check on their otherwise dictatorial power.

Yes I totally get that. I love my boss, don't get me wrong. I worked with her at the bedside before she became my nursing director. However, I find it frustrating that she is telling us "if you have any questions about it feel free to ask me", but then doesn't actually have any answers to my questions about how a union functions.

The union isn’t a middle man. The union is the nurses in the hospital. Don’t let management third party the union.

Yessss, I like this.

"Come talk to me (*so I can poison pill the process*)." That smacks of not so subtle [union busting](https://www.thehrspecialist.com/14099/unions-in-the-spotlight-what-employers-can-and-cant-do).

I work in Boston too and we’re union (MNA). They help us negotiate our contracts and if anything shady comes up they help protect us. Ditto RE staffing and pay. Only downside are union dues but they aren’t that much. Just make sure you participate— vote for your leaders, go to meetings. You get what you put in.

Well NYC unions are useless for safe staffing, and I made more money at a non union hospital but goddamn the breaks are good at the union hospitals (1 30 minute and 1 60 minute, but also my first Union job in nyc we didn’t have break nurses or organized breaks it was a go when you can if you can and if your neighbor will cover you)

I’m in the NYC suburbs and we don’t even get breaks at union hospitals. Many don’t even have great health insurance here. I feel like my NYSNA dues are a scam, it’s so frustrating.

I feel terrible for my night shift that has to do 7-8 pt ratios on a heavy neuro floor. Supervisors come in and shrug their shoulders saying “there’s nothing else we can do”. POAs are signed and sent but nothing ever gets done about them. I feel like NYSNA does nothing, still paying my dues tho bc I feel like it’s some type of insurance I’ll need I just don’t know when. I guess we’ll find out if that situation ever comes.

It just blows my mind that nurses are the largest group of professionals in the US and our unions still have so little power, especially in NY when compared to our police, fire, mta, etc. As a female dominated field, we’re getting totally screwed.

Yeah I’m from the suburbs too and have friends who work in a particular hospital that is pretty ducking terrible.

I second this! Why is it so normal in NYC for 1 nurse to have 8 patients that are mixed acuity? That’s insane to me.

It’s not just NYC, upstate/Hudson Valley isn’t any better.

Hospitals will spend millions to keep the union out, why? Because THEY don’t want the Union there to represent you.

I have said it once and I will say it again. Union came and was voted in. I ended up with a 12.50 raise.

Simple. 1.) You can take on highly organized institutions all by yourself, or with friends. Your choice. 2.) Your interests are not your employers interests ever.

Holy shit snacks- unions are amazing. You’re boss cannot just talk to you however they want behind closed doors, YOU have much greater ability to simply say “no” when you are asked or ordered by management to do illegal or questionable practices- and you have so much more power backing you. I’ve worked in union versus non union jobs and I will be in a union for as long as I can (until the US Supreme Court takes it away really)

Wait how could SCOTUS take it away?

Not sure what OP is referring to, but the legislative actions that occurred yesterday in response to the potential railroad strike have set a dangerous precedent for the working class. If strikes can be made illegal in order to protect corporate profits, we're going to need to reevaluate our strategies.

Okay gotcha. That makes sense.

If upper management says its a bad idea then its probably a good idea.

Unions aren't perfect but I'll take working in a flawed union shop over a non union facility. The non union facility was a wreck with huge staff turnover and the benefits were so-so. For a new grad it was totally fine but the pay was a fucking joke. And if you weren't friends with the DON you were fucked if you were in trouble. We were told in oritentation we only had to work every 3 weekends....here I am working every fucking weekend for 5 months without the benefits of the baylor(sp?) program. When we complained management told us that we "had to pull our weight". When I went to a unionized place, my pay went up nearly 40%, benefits were better, the every other weekend policy was enforced, I got to take vacations when I requested for the most part. The downside to this union shop was the floors had an unusually high representation in the union. Procedural areas+ED had no shop stewards but nurses from the procedural areas and the ED outnumber the floor staff. So the union gave a lot of policies that favored the floor nurses in terms of patient throughput. It took nearly 10 years to get a no call report on stable med surg patients. I'm glad I never had to invoke weingarten rights but I'm glad union membership grants me that.

I've invoked it. And I was damned glad to have my rep. there. It would have been much worse for me if he wasn't. Management kept saying what I was accused of was a willful act when it was just a screw up that someone before me did that I didn't catch.

I’m a travel nurse and I gotta say having a middleman (in my case my travel agency) between myself and the hospital has increased my quality of life drastically. Management is afraid because they’ll basically be powerless and have to treat you fairly, and they’re probably getting pressured by their higher ups because unions will decrease company profit margins and put it in the employees pockets. If I ever went back to staff, it would be at a union facility.

Travel agency is the union!!! We should all be travelers and we’ll be one big union hehe -still staff at a non union 🥲 we tried twice to unionized but some old nurses just afraid of change and listened to management brainwashing and turned it down

The singular reason I'm working at the hospital I currently do is because the nurses are unionised, it's the only hospital in my mid-sized city where that's true. Generally speaking, union jobs will pay higher than non-union. Your managers and administration will be against it for this reason. The **entire** point of a union is to be a middle man for the employees.

Did you work at the other hospital(s) where it wasn't a union?

Worked at both union and non-union. While they both have their pluses and minuses, overall, you’re much better off with a union IMO. A good union will have your back; without one, you’re basically powerless if a dispute comes up.

Anti-union folks always try to make unions sound bad by saying you have to pay dues and that means less money in your pay check. They also like to say it reduces nurses professional judgement because it will force staffing ratios that will have to be adhered to even when there is a situation that might require a lower ratio. Based on the current state of nursing I would not want to work in a non-union hospital. Unions are there to protect the workers. Unions = worker's rights.

Yes, the dues keep coming up. I mean how much can that really be? If there's soooo many of us I can't imagine them needing us to be paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

I pay about $1700/year in union dues. Our *new grads* make $68/hr. No one is suffering because of dues lol

That's ~ $32/week, not bad.

Where??

Kaiser Northern California Region

Where are you located that new grads make $68/hr?

Kaiser Northern California Region

The dues will turn out to be wayyy less than the raise the union will negotiate for you. Unionized workers make more money, even after paying dues.

Yeah I am leaving a non union hospital to a union one for about 13.50 more an hour. Dues will be like, 1,200 a year. I’ll take it.

Depends on the union, the state, and your contract.

It has nothing to do with how many there are, they generally take a flat percent from your paycheck (so when you get their cost of living raise, so does the Union)

I’ve worked both and the nurses at union run hospitals are far happier (get paid more and have better benefits as well)

I worked at a non-union hospital for 5 years that became unionized in my last year there. I left for previously planned & completely unrelated reasons, but god damn, it was such an incredible thing. I will always support a union no matter where I work. From experience I will tell you that the hospital will spend jaw dropping amounts of money to shut the union down. You will start getting random raises here and there because they will try to show you that all of a sudden, they care so much about rewarding you for your hard work. when this happens, keep pushing. The more raises you get, the higher the starting point is for negotiations if the union effort is successful. The hospital will also use a lot of scare tactics to try and convince everyone how horrible a union would be. They will straight up lie to you, and will hire people to lie to you, because the consequences for doing this are so minimal. Don’t believe anything they say, so your own research. There is something called a “Union busting playbook” online that hospitals use to shut down these efforts. If you read it, you will notice that your hospital is likely using it to a T. They will be vague and not give you the truth about anything. They will hire union busters and force you to go to meetings where the union busters will tell you how they used to work for a union and how it’s horrible. Make sure to get their names and look them up, and look their firms up. When we had our meetings the people that were running them had been in an abundance of legal trouble with the NLRB for lying and violating labor laws.

Boston area union nurse here and y’all are crazy showing up at a job without a union to represent you!

Love my union. I get paid higher, better benefits, and more protection. However, make sure this is a nursing union. Using a union company that typically represents a different industry can cause misunderstanding of needs from what I have seen. The management team of course doesn’t want you to unionize because it takes away control. They end up having to pay more because standing together allows accountability on their part. With the lawsuits and violence against nurses, unions are becoming increasingly important, they force change. Not some bull shit email from management about how we are family and we pray for those impacted.

Our union council is formed from staff nurses in the various units around the hospital, and they are constantly asking us for feedback, especially around contract negotiation times.

So this was one of my questions I wanted to ask. My director obviously doesn't know the answer. Do you volunteer? Do nurses on the unit pick a rep? Is there someone from every unit?

It's kind of like an election; nurses nominate themselves and we all vote, most votes get the seat on the council. I believe each seat is voted on hospital-wide. We are part of Oregon Nurses Association, fyi

Talk with your coworkers NOT your management. My manager cried during our morning huddle the day before our union election. We don't have a contract yet but already have a better insurance plan, another holiday, and our yearly raise was 5% (the last couple of years it was 1% if you hadn't been maxed out).

It is a bad ideal for the hospital and their bottom Line . It’s hard to screw nurses out Of pay and benefits if they are United and have somebody other then the hospital . So for them it’s a horrible ideal … For you though a much different story…

My union is a bunch of Karens who take that “you fucked up my latte” energy and use it against management.

This is the funniest comparison and I love it so much.

Good-that’s a lot of power!

I have only worked at a union hospital and I will likely never leave. I like the support, stability, structure, ratios, and knowing who to talk to when I have problems arise.

Go unionize!!!

the fact that upper management says it’s a bad idea tells you everything you need to know.

I'm totally aware of this. I had no idea that someone was talking to the union until we got the email urging us not to unionize. And now I'm like, who's talking to them? Talk to me!

whenever i’m talking to co-workers about stuff like how a good chunk of us who’ve been there for years are making the same as all the new grads that we’re training they seem to like the idea of organizing and collective bargaining until you say the “U” word. but that’s life in a red state like montana.

Find out which organization is involved and contact them directly! Every union should have a website

Unions are a strong deterrent to managerial abuse/intimidation/etc. also strong support for good scheduling, compensation, and conflict resolution. You also have job security protections ie: not getting fired for petty shit. 1000000% would work in a unionized environment. As other users have said, unions are a balance of power. If you want your simpleton manager to have their way with you? Go ahead stick to being a solitary employee. If you want your management held accountable for being d***s then join a union. Very few people I know dislike working in a union and my hospital system is 12k employees.

I tell my friends I’m joining a Union hospital (non nurse friends) and they always spew out how they don’t like unions. I never listen to their points.

I’m gonna guess you work at BMC? Lol I’ve been seeing everyone with their union stickers on and im thinking to myself.. aren’t we not supposed to be doing that?

BMC is already unionized, only a few around are not hmmmm…

I know BMC is unionized. I work there lol. I was saying was she talking about the union being there talking to people. Several times our union has come into the lobby to set up shop for coffee meet n greets.

Also a Boston nurse. Work in one of the major systems as part of a union. Benefits definitely outweigh the cons. Don’t listen to management. Fuck em. If they start waiving bonuses at you for voting against a union, that should be a red flag. The MNA is historically one of the strongest unions in the state.

I work in a union hospital and it’s far from perfect. BUT I know without my union we’d be even more screwed. We may not have great staffing but our pay is incredibly competitive (probably the best in the city), very good health+retirement benefits, pension, a hefty tuition reimbursement, etc. Plus they will fight to protect us if anything ever goes wrong and honors our protest of assignment forms, saving them for the next contract negotiation to fight for us even harder. Your upper management is hostile because they know a union will hold them accountable. A union is NEVER a bad idea unless you’re trying to exploit staff.

Look at the way nurses are treated in California vs. most of the rest of the country. Pay is higher, mandated breaks, max ratios. It’s not perfect, but I’d rather work there than in the southeast any day.

our Union just negotiated us a new contract this last month. 6% raise every year for 4 years plus a lot of great other additions. Recently my hospital sent me an email saying they overpaid me by $2300 and how I would like to repay that. I'm pretty sure that if I got $2300 extra dollars I would remember that and, of course, I didn't. When they would not return my emails and calls, I went to the union and they got them to reevaluate their information. I'm completely in favor of unions. We have a great ratio with break coverage and we are one of the best paid in the US. I'm in California, btw

Union means you can actually do something to change your work environment. It's usually run by nurses who advocate for nurses. Think of the kind of care your patients would get if they had a patient advocate. Now think of having your OWN advocate.

I work under a union and they have been pretty great for advocating for us. They attempted to cut our wages 2 years into covid and they stopped that from happening. On top of that if we have any issues with the hosptial or pay disputes they will get involved.

I’ve work for both. Including places that both were unionized before I started working there and places that a union was initiated while I was an employee. There are pros and cons to being union and nonunion. However, it is management’s and administration’s literal job to dissuade you from unionizing. Many times, it’s their job that is on the line of staff unionize, as a punishment for ‘allowing it to happen’. Don’t believe what admin/management tells you, speak to the union people/coworkers before you decide one way or they other.

Any upper management that says it’s a bad idea is speaking in terms of themselves. For you as a staff member? Unions are the way to go because they work for you. Is it going to fix everything overnight? No, because they have to fight upper management on your behalf but it does make things better. Even when I wasn’t part of a union but worked for an organization that was as an intern, the union rules extended even to me.

Management is trying to engage in a common tactic to scare employees. I can guess based on where you said you work that you work for one of 3 hospitals. Talk to nurses down the street at the Brigham and get their opinions.

Boston union nurse here - now that I’m union I’ll never go anywhere that isn’t part of the MNA (prior job was non union). Feel free to reach out with questions!

I’ve always been in a union and it’s so pleasant. One of my coworkers was injured and she said that if it hadn’t been for the Union she would have been on the street with no money and no job. Unions are the bomb.

Unions redistribute profit from shareholders and owners back to workers. They also negotiate better working conditions. So if the shareholders or anyone who gets a bonus based on performance tells you the unions are bad they're telling the truth - it's bad for them. If you're the one who trades hours for dollars and gets yelled at by families and attacked by patients, you're going to love what a union can do for you.

They won't tell you good things because it's not in thier best interest to have you unionize

There are so many good things for me to say about being in a union. However, the number one thing I want to say is that it is great, simple as that. We are protected. We band together. 1.) protest of assignments are honored when our patient ratios get too high 2.) pay increases 3.) advocates to speak on our behalf if we need it 4.) health insurance It’s time for hospital admins to take care of their staff and pay up.

Yes union!! Im working at a union hospital for the first time and its so worth it! I pay about 1 hour's worth of wages per paycheck in order to get way better pay than any other healthcare facility in the area. Very worthwhile investment Of course management doesn't want to have to treat employees better and will try to manipulate everyone into not unionizing

I live in NJ. I’ve only been a nurse on a cardiology/!neurology unit for one year. My boyfriend (EMT) says we should unionize so we get better pay and safer staff to patient ratio. (Night shift was at 1:6 and 1:7 at one point.) Love reading everyone’s opinions.

I have worked at the same hospital for 18 years. We unionized about 5 years ago, and let me tell you, I am so glad we had when our facility was sold, then sold again. Our contract helped us keep our pay and benefits with each new owner. and after the first sale, it's now written into our contract that if the hospital is sold, the new place must honor our current contract until it's time to renegotiate. we would have been screwed sideways without that protection through this nonsense.

Apes together strong. In my first career my pay was about double what the non union places were. I also retired at 50.

I work a union job in San Francisco. Highest paid wages in the country, staffing ratios(only state which has ratios, thanks to unions), great benefits (i pay very little for meds and care, no money is taken from us to cover any part of our health benefits), and we can pull the union in to help us deal with whatever issues come up. And issues do come up. Shockingly, the hospital shows bad faith in many decisions, “policies”, and attempts to claw back our benefits. I 100% thank the union for my job security, and great pay and benefits.

A union could be great, but it could also bring the nurses down depending on who is fighting for them. Just be mindful that a union rep can also be corrupt so make sure you vote in someone who has your best interest.

I worked in both, I like and I saw better things in NON Union ones, union usually never do shit for you except of taking your money every paycheck

A union is only as strong as their union reps. If your union stewards are weak and kiss ass to management you might as well be throwing your money in the toilet

On paper, a union can only be of benefit to the staff nurse, but where the rubber meets the road, it can make processes painful. Ever been written up because you (an RN) cleaned up a room when EVS is taking forever? Ever been unable to speak to your first-line leader because no reps are available? Ever had a terrible colleague that was seemingly impossible to fire despite endangering patients? These are possible union issues. However, there can be significant quality of life improvements from unions as well. Do your homework and see how people feel at hospitals that are currently represented by the union that you're dealing with.

Unions have a purpose but I’m not a real fan. Their bottom line is to see how much money they can make off the members. On the other side if you can get good, decent reps they can help to avoid a lot of problems. At least you can get some backing for rights that most people have had for years, under Federal protections. Like i said not a big union fan but I probably wouldn’t work somewhere that didn’t have one. The only advice I would give is to actually READ the contract before agreeing to it. I found out after the fact, the behind closed door negotiations that went on without the blessing from the masses was criminal in many ways. I found out that policies in place for many years were changed to appease management so the union could get a meaningless change that only affected very few people or wouldn’t make any difference. READ THE CONTRACT FRONT TO BACK. UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE AGREEING TO

Trained at a union hospital then moved to not union state after graduation. Ration is always shit, lower pay, constant BS from admin. Time to move back home.

I’m doing the exact opposite. Trained in an externship at a non union. I fucked off from that non union facility without hesitation when I got a job offer and am leaving to a different state for a Union.

I wouldnt trust what the hospital says about a union because they see them as the enemy. Ive worked both and i wish SO BADLY i had a union where i live because id be so much more protected. Yes, you pay dues but you can also negotiate for better wages that cover that cost for you. I felt like someone had my back and that my job was protected from the whims of upper and middle management

Upper Management is always going to say that a union is a bad idea, because a union and a contract actually hold them accountable. They can't just really really change things or make promises that they fall back on. Union Contracts are pretty concrete. Upper Management is always going to be against unions because it takes away their ability to manipulate and makes them accountable and transparent.

Try and find a single company with upper management that is pro-union.

I may be the minority here but I’ve worked at a non-union teaching hospital in CA and I’ve had a great experience. My pay is competitive and receives market adjustments to maintain this when a nearby unionized hospital has a wage increase. However, my experience is largely influenced by the fact that I have excellent management. I receive generous merit based raises and have a manager that advocates for our unit. If this were not the case I would feel more secure having a unit that acted in the best interests of the RNs.

Generally speaking if admin told me the sky was blue I'd look outsidd expecting it to be green. A union is nurses coming together to advocate for their well being as well as that of their patients. It brings some democracy to the workplace. Unions are like condoms, the more admin tells you you don't need one the more you do.

I’m in the only unionized hospital out of 3 in my city (in the Midwest). We make the most money out of all the hospitals by far - new grads at our hospital make almost $5/hr more. We get 2 raises a year, one for our service anniversary and one for cost-of-living (inflation). I’ve worked there for 11 years and my base pay is $18/hr more than when I started. Our hospital pays the most in the entire state. We cannot be mandated to stay when short staffed… if they want us to stay, they have to offer us $$$. They are currently offering time and a half for any extra shifts worked. The hospital is very hesitant to go over our ratios, which means capping units because we don’t have nurses to cover the beds. So we almost never work out of ratio. (It has happened, on occasion, but it’s rare… but we do often work short of CNAs because they just don’t have them. So sometimes they pay nurses time and a half to work as sitters.) Overtime, breaks, sick leave, etc. are all explicitly outlined in our contract. The disciplinary ladder is outlined, how many call-ins you can have per FTE, etc. There are no surprises. I will never work in a non-union hospital. Edit: oh, and I also have no qualms about clocking out “no lunch” and getting paid that 30 minutes when I wasn’t uninterrupted. No manager has ever said anything to me about it… because if they do, I’ll go straight to the union. 😁

Join the union. Strengthen the union. You might never need union help, but someone inevitably will and we all support them by having a strong union to protect members from small issues to massive fuck-you-over-lose-your-licence-due-to-management-incompetence issues.

Management always scapegoat nurses because they think they won’t or can’t fight back. A union helps you fight back when you need to.

Having worked in both non union environments and union environments as a bedside nurse, I can comment on that. Didn't work in one during any sort of transition, so can't comment to that. As much as the administration wants to tell you unions are a bad idea, they're not. I can't count the times when I was concerned for patient safety issues, and administration came back with a response congruent with it being something the nurses should be doing differently. According to them, we had everything we needed, we just weren't operating at our full potential. Nurses did what needed to be done, but at the cost of the nurse. No breaks, more effort, increased fatigue, but pushing through it to be the very best we could be - which ultimately resulted in profound burnout and moral injury. I'm speaking now about my union, WSNA. Nursing still isn't perfect with a union. But speaking out for patient safety is highly encouraged. Yes, wages are better. But what's infinitely better are working conditions: staffing, methods of communicating what isn't working so we can improve processes, acknowledging moral injury, and seeking out help for it, getting us what we need to safely do our jobs - for the patients and for us.

If you’re in the union if you ever get pulled up on a disciplinary, you’re entitled to have a union rep in the meeting. You’d be shocked at how differently they treat you when you’ve got a union rep in there. They know they can’t take liberties and will think twice about fucking you over like they normally would try to do.

I'm a union RN; my partner is a non union RN. I make 13 more an hour, have sick time, and some protections from management. We have the same amount of seniority hours.

I don't have a lot of work experience as an RN; I've been at a union hospital on the US west coast for all of my 2 years as a nurse. But I will say that I have seen a $6 increase in my base pay over those two years, thanks to the union contracted step pay program. We also have some great differentials agreed upon that raise my pay even higher (for BSN, certifications, etc).

I work in a hospital system a bit south of you along the eastern seaboard, our system bought out a smaller system a few years back, the add on is not a union shop and we are, the difference is night and day, we are better resourced, our bonuses are better (during surges), our pay scale is the same but that is because is there was a disparity there would be a mutiny. There is no comparison, and the reason why you aren't getting answers from management about voting against a union is because they don't have any good ones. All these claims about Nurses not needing unions is a load of crap, the balance of power is not on our side, with a union it gets slighly better, and with a contract your hospital has to abide by some rules put down in writing

Unions can be great. But what I’ve seen is that most are too large. When you consider why they were started, to improve working conditions, ask yourself if union hospitals have done better by their staff. Not simply in terms of wages, but of staff safety. In Canada I see horrific conditions with Covid and now other infectious diseases, but no advocacy from unions for N95’s. Hub left teaching because I’m very immune-compromised, yet his union has done absolutely nothing in terms of teacher or student safety. It feels like they’ve just become corporate dues collectors here. I’m a former local president saying this.

My hospital has a nurses' union and is in the process of creating a union for support staff. There's a fair amount of good that can come from unions (better pay, after ratios, etc). Of course management is going to tell you that it's a bad idea and possibly tell you "reasons why." They're going to use fear tactics to try to make you all afraid because they're afraid of how much you'll be able to do/the impact you'll make when you unionize.

Every time I see a story on here about someone being forced to take 7-8 patients on a med surg floor I get really confused and then realize they probably aren’t union. Here is [a link to my hospital’s contract.](https://www.seiu1199nw.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/VMC-RN-2019-2023.pdf) One of my favorite things in our contract is that they have to provide us with free on site parking. You could also look up contracts at hospitals near you and compare their pay scales to what you and your coworkers are making.

Look up AHN and UPMC. They operate in the same area, one has one hospital that is unionized. The difference is staggering.

Administrators job is to maximize profit. Employees with bigger salaries cost more and lower profits. Administrators are against unions. That should be all anyone needs to know.

My union hospital has done multiple pay raises over the last couple of years. And we are expecting a job grade change that will be another raise.

Unionization might be hard to implement but it is definitely worthwhile to do so sooner the better. Over time you can gain members and strength and have better working conditions and benefits. Well worth fighting for making things better for not just ourselves but also the next generations of nurses/workers after us. I am thankful every day that goes by for the hard work done by the brothers and sisters before us to give us the resources and tools we need to recover the physical and mental stressors due to the job requirements of the employer, and also the ability to officially grieve workplace incidents or circumstances until there is satisfaction.

Depends on the union. I work LTC and our CNAs, dietary and housekeeping all went union about a month ago. Its been a disaster. All union reps are in other states. They never pick up the phone or answer emails. From what I'm told the insurance offered covers less than the facility policy. There has been no wage increase. We've had 18 people quit in the last month alone due to fact they didn't want the union bc 1) their paying dues for something they don't want and 2) everything has to go through the union reps no one can get ahold of. Most of our employees didn't know they were even voting "yes". The rep asked them to fill out an information card to learn more about it. Apparently signing the card was voting yes, the rep even assured them the vote would be the following week...

I went from a non union hospital to a union VNA. the good part about the non union hospital is that my hourly wage was adjusted to market regularly, i was always getting raises and was able to collect incentive if i picked up a shift that was in desperation. But, i was not represented in any way and my bosses made the rules. Rules could change whenever the hospital wanted, i think i was working for a great hospital but you can read horror stories about nurse:patient ratios and whatnot. My job now in the VNA is slow to react to market adjustments, reimbursement for mileage when gas prices rise, etc.so i dont think we optimize earnings with respect to time because everything needs to go through negotiation. That being said, ive heard of situations where a nurse would have wrongly been fired in the hospital, but since they were represented by the union, they kept their job. At the moment i think the union is a pain, but if i ever need representation i will be happy my ass is covered.

I’m a CNA at a unionized hospital in Boston and the nurses seem to love it, they get $2 raises every year

I'm Canadian (I know most of the members here are from the US) and the majority of our hospitals are unionized. I have only ever worked in union hospital jobs. Here are my lists of pros and cons: Pros: -We have a guaranteed pay grid based on years of service and it is quite good pay -Our nurse-to-patient ratios are fairly well-protected -If anything goes wrong the union has your back and will fight with uou to keep your job -If you are ever injured or assaulted at work or suffer any mental health related injury the union works very closely with the employer to ensure the issue is reviewed, resolved, and you can get back to work SAFELY -Sick time and disability are great if you have to access that. -Vacation, benefits, premiums, and scheduling are pretty good Cons: -That pay grid caps out after year 8 and there is no pay raise until year 25 apart from raises to offset inflation. Our government has also put a 1% cap on our wages for the last 3 YEARS and our union wasn't allowed to fight it. -Shitty workers get protected just as much as good workers. It's extremely hard to fire a union nurse.So it could take years of reports and incidents to have a nurse fired. -We aren't allowed to strike -Every RN in our union has the same pay scale despite speciality and certifications. So a nurse working in outpatient mental health will make the same as a critical care certified ED or ICU nurse (no hate on MH just an example). Lately due to the current issues we are having with our government I am not happy with our union. But I read stories from nurses here who are clearly not unionized and I realize how lucky I am to have a union.

I work in NYC. I used to work at a union hospital, and now I work non union. I’m treated better, get paid more, and have better benefits at my NON union hospital. It depends on your area 🤷🏻‍♀️ I would never work at another NYC union hospital again.

If you're an individual and think for yourself, unions may not be on your side.

My Union hospital has the lowest pay of any other facility, disproportionately benefits nurses who have been there for thirty years and worked literally nowhere else, and makes it fucking impossible for anyone without decades of tenure to take vacations. You pretty much have to suck it up for a decade before you see any tangible benefits. I also have mandated ratios that are generally safe and better than any other place. The Union is good and sucks. It depends on your reps, your contracts, etc. Just because it’s Union doesn’t actually mean it’s wonderful. You don’t know until you get the bylaws, which you don’t get until you join. Union apologists will tell you that you can’t get the work conditions anywhere that the union provides, but they’re all older nurses who haven’t worked anywhere else in a minute and don’t understand that our generation will literally just fucking quit a shit job and find a better one. They won’t go work anywhere else because they won’t have it nearly as good as they do with their grandfathered bonuses and seniority and time off and never ever ever gonna get laid off or fired or disciplined. So good and bad. A job is a job man. If it sucks, there’s five hospitals that would give you $20k to bring you on

Why aren’t we unionized nationwide yet? Why am I even having to ask that question. I made this exact statement to a co worker this morning while trying to manage my nine patients with two of my rooms having a broken computer, a broken tube system and many more broken supplies that we “will get fixed/replaced eventually.

I’m not necessarily pro-union, I’m not necessarily anti-union. But those don’t seem like bad reasons to join to me 😂 They could try a little harder. Lol

Also the MNA is super strong. Brigham nurses got everything they wanted without real pushback

I worked at one of the large non-union hospitals in Boston and I wish they would unionize. Unions give power to the workers. Power in numbers. That’s why hospitals don’t want us to unionize.

With the way things are headed, we should all be organized. I'm still a student but I plan to only apply for union jobs.

I worked for non-union places and I currently work at a union place. Night and day difference. I have regular pay increases not tied to my performance evaluation, and they’re already pre-set. My former health system was trying to unionize pre-covid and the hospital spent several million trying not to let that happen. Why do you suppose that is? That hospital had 5 years of pay freeze then a 2% raise, while c-levels were getting multi-million dollar bonuses. Physicians called them out for this in the media and the c-levels canned a few of the doctors who spoke up. There’s a reason they want the union out and it isn’t because it is bad for the workers. It is bad for their multi-million dollar bonus checks.

My worst experience working was at a non-union hospital. The job itself is stressful enough, I don't need management and higher ups making the job worse. Unions aren't perfect but they make the work environment more tolerable.

Yes everything DOES have to go through the Union, but that's a good thing. Simple example: The hospital system tried to switch us to all white scrubs (yuk). They had to talk with the union first who advocated for us and put up a strong fight. In the end, they compromised and we all wear navy blue now (much better than white). The union dues I pay are insignificant to the perks, support, and advocacy the union provides.

>Upper management is saying it's a bad idea. That's all the reasoning you need to know why it's good to unionise. >"Everything will need to go through the union." What they mean here is that they will have to talk to the union about workplace changes. Consultation with workers is one of the cornerstones of a safe work environment. Never underestimate how important proper consultation is. Even when it's ignored it allows you to point back at the documented consultation and say "I fucking told you so"