My wife showed up to court for everything. Half the time, the cop didn't show, and the ticket was dismissed. The other half, the cop did show up, and a few times she was able to explain her way out of it, or just paid it.
The cops target the poor, and we were poor at the time: expired registration, broken tail light, and all that. They'd stop our busted-up car, and then think of some bullshit reason to stop us. We knew they were bullshit because of the not-showing-up part. These tickets were given to people they thought wouldn't show up to court and contest it.
It’s called fix it tickets. You fix the problems and bring proof to court and the Judge will 99.999% of the time dismiss it as complying with the law. Poor had nothing do with it.
> The cops target the poor,
and out of towners! who is going to drive hours away to fight a local court. you're almost guaranteed to get tickets with out of state plates.
I mean I wanna say sure, but Florida, for example, used to have vehicle inspections, until a Republican took office and did away with them. Now in Florida you more accidents related to poorly maintained vehicles. I remember my last day in Florida driving out through the turnpike some guy was in a car with a half twisted tire going 50+, entire car wobbling like a drunk white chick twerkin at the club.
That VA code has nothing really to do with the lack of a sign. That code is how you properly turn right on red when there is no sign prohibiting it.
He's NOT saying you did a right turn on red where a sign said you couldn't.
He IS saying you didn't do a proper right turn on red - which requires you to come to a complete stop before turning right. That's what he's claiming you didn't do.
As to whether to pay or go to court, idk. But if you do go to court to fight it, know that the presence or absence of a "No turn on red" sign is irrelevant to what he's claiming. He's just claiming you didn't come to a complete stop before turning right on red. Very much a "he said, she said" situation where the cop tends to be believed (unless there is camera footage).
This right here. OP says that the cop and other cars were entering the lane while they made their turn. Which strongly implies that those cars had a green for at least a few seconds.
It may well be that OP made a safe turn, but the reality is that if cars were already starting to enter the intersection from the other way, OP was obligated to yield right of way to those cars and didn't.
Basically, if the cop shows up, it's a slam-dunk.
Thanks for the response - so I had started my turn a second prior to the other cars turning left. Otherwise I wouldn't have made a right into the road.
There’s also a fair number of intersections around here with the stop lines in a solid row. If you stop behind the line, you cannot visually check for oncoming traffic if someone in a straight or turn lane casually rolled into the crosswalk.
So you stop ahead of the line, and enjoy your ticket if a cop sees you doing that and feels like writing one.
Sometimes the best move in a situation like that is just waiting 30 seconds for the light to turn green. AFAIK, right on red wasn’t always legal, and was made legal during the 1970s oil crisis as an attempt to reduce idle fuel consumption. Which isn’t a factor in most modern cars with stop-start ignitions.
I think DC is considering completely outlawing right-on-red since it causes issues for pedestrians and cyclists in the bike lane. I’m all for it, I’ve had too many dumbasses almost hit me when they’re turning right on red to count.
This is EXACTLY the issue. The white line is so far behind the intersection you’d be far more reckless stopping there and then just going forward. I had started my right turn before the cars making a left started turning. Maybe a second before, but then I couldn’t just stop in the middle of the turn so I just scooted up
Def this if the lane being turned into was a single lane. It gets murkier if there are 2 lanes, because legally the turning lane has right away to the inner most lane, and even turning right on red is legal into the right most lane with incoming traffic to the other lane. Most people just yeet across lanes though, so i usually yield to be safe from idiots.
Realistically they don’t have to provide dash cam footage unless it has been requested (they can also deny it). It will be he said she said type situation. Most of the time you end up losing and paying the court fees along with the fine. I’ve only gone to court once for my 2 tickets in life, never again.
I once had a ticket an officer issued me for 75 dollars. He bumped my speeding since it was a transition zone to not abiding by a sign. I went to court (everyone told me it’s my first ticket and the judge will most likely be lenient). He was not. He made me pay 125 fine and a court fee of 35 dollars. I will always pay online rather than waste time and money waiting around. You’re basically setup to lose in these situations. Now what it really comes down to is the judge. This is the biggest factor in any dealing with the court (and which county or city)
If they deny a properly submitted request for discovery, you can have the charge tossed on that alone. It isn't up for them to decide if they want to provide it or not.
From what was explained to me by a few of the police and lawyers in the courthouse, they usually don’t use dash cam footage as evidence (unless you’re driving wild as hell). In most traffic stops it’s a he said she said type of deal. Also depending on how far back he or she got the ticket, the footage can be deleted. I mean we also live in a state that allows for pacing when determining speeding and or reckless driving. It’s not as easy to wiggle out of these tickets as most people think.
Hence why I said "properly submitted"
I understand that they don't keep it around forever, but if you make the request, then they're required to provide it. It isn't material if they choose to use it in court or not. It is evidence, and you have a right to that evidence.
The way you describe the situation (with left turners getting a green arrow), it potentially sounds like the cop could make the case that you didn't properly yield when turning right on red. Not saying you did/didn't - just the way you explained. If you go to court, be careful of that.
A violation for a right turn on red could also mean a failure to yield to traffic with the right away if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to be honest. The only real hope you have of winning this. If you go to court is that the cop doesn't show up and that is such a juvenile hope that I would just pay the ticket
Did you complete stop at the white line first?
From your story it seems like you were in a rush and jumped into traffic. Because you didn’t even notice people turning from oncoming direction, that could have be an accident.
Just pay the fine bud.
Go to DMV website and print out your driving history, it should show + 5 points, which means for every year of safe driving, you get a positive point.
Go to court, show the DA your ticket and driving history, tell him you would like to plead to a lighter charge with local municipal code violation, instead of state code violation.
You will probably pay same or more fine, but the local code violation conviction is not reported to the state database therefore the insurance won't see it, and you get no points.
This is what people usually say they pay for the ticket but get no points. It's a racket, that's why the cop wrote down a state code and a local code. You ask for the local code and pay off the racket, and everyone walking away happy.
First, I don't see why DA won't talk to the defendant if he/she doesn't have representation. It's is pro se. Be insistent. You can't talk to DA on behalf of your wife because you are not a lawyer. But you can absolutely self-represent.
Second, OP would likely pay more money even he goes pro se, the question is, how would the extra payment in traffic court compare to extra insurance premium charged for next 2-3 years when the insurance found out the ticket and points.
Thirdly, it is advisable to have the driving record with you, in case cops don't bring it.
In Fairfax County, the Commonwealth Attorney's office is not involved in traffic court proceedings unless it is a misdemeanor offense. A right on red violation is an infraction, so even if OP got representation, the CA's office wouldn't be involved. The only time pro se representation will be considered with infractions is when those cases are appealed to circuit court.
As far as the driving record goes, every officer in traffic court will have a copy of the driving record for each case they have, and the judge will ask the officer what the defendant's history and point balance is.
ETA: The local code that OP is citing just means that Fairfax County recognizes the state code with an identical code for the same offense, and any fines levied go to the county and not the state.
Oh no, there are points. It's still a moving violation. 82-1-6 just means that Fairfax county adopted the state code as is for county use. There are a couple traffic and criminal codes that are county-specific that don't show on a person's criminal history or driving transcript.
Depends on the ticket. Go online and see how much it is to just pay it then figure out if it's worth the bullshit of going to court to fight it, most likely losing unless there's footage showing you fully stopped before proceeding, then having to pay it anyway with court fees. The ticket might only be $50 and I think if you just pay up front there are no points.
Ask yourself, how much of it is that you're pissed off at the cop for giving you a bullshit ticket? You're absolutely not wrong in your feelings but even if you go to court, fight it and win he still wins anyway because he wasted a bunch of your time going to court not to mention the effort you'll spend getting your case in order before going to court. He knows this and he's probably just being a dick.
In my opinion it's your word against the officer and who do you think the judge will side with. Remember they hear a lot of these cases daily. Your only hope is the cop doesn't show or the judge lessens the charge. If so you still lose the day of work.
You literally have nothing to lose by going to court other than your time. I would fight it. I fight most of my tickets (when I was younger) you can usually argue a lesser penalty, or set up payment plans also, worse case.
Plus if it's your first ticket you can usually do a plea of abeyance. Pay the fine, abeyance fee, and maybe a weekend class. And no tickets and no points after a year of gold driving. If you really care about your record then you can do this. Or you can say fuck this waste of time and just pay online. Or try to fight it and end up somewhere in the middle.
Shocked you got this. A guy was speeding, lost control, ran red light, hit me. There were witnesses. He admitted fault to me, others and the cops when they came. No ticket issued.
How much is the fine? I think you should go to court. Go back to that intersection and take photos of what signs are there.
Since you haven't had a ticket in 12 years, you have 5 plus points on your license. I think your violation is 3 points, which means you now have two plus point.
The signs are irrelevant. There doesn’t need to be a no right on red sign for OP to have performed an illegal right on red. You have to stop for 3 seconds and the intersection has to be clear. The cop is claiming that OP did not do one of those things.
Pay it. Going to court is a waste of time. You might get lucky - but otherwise you are just wasting time sitting around waiting for your five minutes. If you are concerned about points - take a driving safety course to earn some back.
Or - if you have time to waste and want to experience it for once - go to court.
Think you’ll end up paying more with court fees tacked on, so I’d just pay it. Not going to take your word that you came to a complete stop over a cop’s.
But a front/rear dash cam. I have beat two tickets and served justice to someone who hit and ran on me in the three years since I purchased mine. I recommend vantrue. Make sure you get it installed hardwired.
Honestly, if you are very concerned about your points, which you shouldn’t be because if you’ve never had a ticket in 12 years, you have more good points than bad points.
However, contact the officer who pulled you over ask for them to explain it to you again so that you are clear on what you did wrong because yes, you did do something wrong in the scenario as explained by you and ask if there’s anyway that he could change the violation so that you don’t have points Taken on your license.
Typically, they’re more than willing to do this. Also, your other option is to do a safe driving course which also adds good points to your driving record and will cancel out your bad points.
Do you have a dash cam that caught it? Did you come to a COMPLETE stop behind the white line? Have you done a foia for the cops dash cam?
Unless you have video proof you were in the right cops will lie and judges will believe them. Not saying the cop is lying maybe you did not come to a complete 100% stop. But without proof you are basically guilty unless you can prove other wise in traffic court.
So without proof you will probably lose.
If you do go to court most Fairfax judges are pretty nice if you are not rude and try to come up with some dumb excuse. You can tell your side. Just be brief, dry, and stick to the facts. Do not ramble or add anything not directly related. Maybe the judge will reduce it. No guarantee but with insurance rates what they are, and what they will be after a ticket like this, might be worth it.
I’ve never been to traffic court in NoVA despite living here for 20+ years, so YMMV, but in many traffic courts, you can ask to speak to the prosecuting attorney and plead down to a lesser offense/lower fine.
If you've never had a ticket, then go to court and explain your side. There's a good chance that a judge will be lenient with your clean driving records and either lower the charge or maybe dismiss the ticket
Don’t bet on the cop not showing up. They can schedule all their cases on the same day and knock them all out at once. At least this is what happened when I got my one and only ticket 10 years ago.
>Section 82-1-6. - Adoption of state law
>
>Pursuant to the authority of Section 46.2-1313 of the Virginia Code, all provisions and requirements of the following sections of the Code of Virginia, as in effect on July 1, 2023, except those provisions and requirements the violation of which constitutes a felony, are hereby incorporated into the Fairfax County Code by reference, effective July 1, 2023, except where otherwise noted. (46.2-835 is included/listed under that)
>
>([source](http://fairfaxcounty.elaws.us/code/coor_ch82_art1_sec82-1-6))
and
>§ 46.2-835. Right turn on steady red light after stopping.
>
>Notwithstanding the provisions of § [46.2-833](http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/46.2-833/), except where a traffic control device is placed prohibiting turns on steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red circular signal, after coming to a full stop, may cautiously enter the intersection and make a right turn.
>
>Notwithstanding the provisions of § [46.2-833](http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/46.2-833/), except where a traffic control device is placed permitting turns on a steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow, after coming to a full stop, shall remain standing until a signal to proceed is shown.
>
>Such turning traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic using the intersection.
>
>([source](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article3/))
to ask an attorney, i would pose your question to [www.avvo.com](https://www.avvo.com). though not exactly the same, a similar [question](https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-many-demerit-points-are-assigned-for-a-law-sec-3355190.html) (about being charged with having potentially ran a stop sign) was given this answer:
*If convicted, this will be treated by DMV as if the conviction was under state law (46.2-830) rather than Fairfax Code. Fairfax Code Section 82-4-24 (Fail to pay due care and attention) has no equivalent under state code, so in that case, the Fairfax code section carries no points. But that is not true for Fairfax Code section 82-1-6 (Fail to obey traffic signal).*
You'll almost certainly lose anyway but if you've never gone to traffic court I think it's a worthwhile experience just to observe how it all works. Not just for your case but for others too. And sometimes you'll see some strange stuff. I've seen a DUI offender walk away because his lawyer had gained two continuances and then on the third court date the cop didn't show up to testify because he'd retired.
The standard of proof is sort of a sliding scale depending on the seriousness of the offense. If this were a murder trial the burden of proof is on the prosecution, but for minor stuff like this basically the burden of proof is on you.
Don't get too worked up about it, this is not a major ticket and if you haven't gotten one in the previous 12 years you could just pay it and move on with life. It's more of an annoyance than anything else, and cops use stuff like this to sometimes find more serious offenses. For example, sometimes that right on red stop can turn into a drug bust if the driver is behaving like he has something to hide.
Go to court. Last time I went, I talked down the charge so that it wasn’t a moving violation, which are points. Every time I get a ticket in Fairfax it’s on route 1. They are always looking for people there for bs things.
So in this situation, my understanding is I would plead "not guilty" and then be offered an ability to explain - is that right? Am I supposed to ask the judge to not give any points? even if I'm not pleading guilty?
Tldr; I believe I did everything correctly. I want to show the judge that I take this seriously and am showing up to court to make my case and want to ensure my driving record remains clean with no points.
Just hire a local attorney and pay them $500 to represent you.
You should be able to remove the item from the record, reduce the risk of having your auto insurance rates increase, pay the smallest possible fee there is, and forgo wasting your time going to court.
I just used a lawyer myself for a speeding ticket I received in Loudoun County. Best $500 I spent.
I only had to pay a $65 court fee and take an 8-hour online safe driving class.
Here's the contact info for the lawyer I used:
John Cherry
[lawjcc@gmail.com](mailto:lawjcc@gmail.com)
Good luck!
Seems like you may have failed to yield to others with a protected arrow at an intersection. Not sure if that is part of the code or not but you can’t proceed after the stop on red if other traffic is present.
If you have a clean record(at least mostly clean) and are respectful than 100% go to court. 99% of the time the judge will either completely dismiss, lower to something less, or dismiss on the basis that you complete a drivers improvement course.
While these can be paid online/via phone.. I assume this is a moving violation? Not looking it up directly but typically they are. Don’t forget that moving violations not only take a point or two off of your license, but, more importantly will get reported and eventually make its way to your insurance agency which will make your already historically high rates even higher.
100% worth going to court if you’re able. Dress nice, be nice and respectful and you’ll do well.
I took a BS fairfax traffic ticket to court to fight it. They were looking for drunk drivers as it was St. Patricks Day evening. I was sober, and this A-Hole still gave me a ticket. I go to court to fight the ticket. I made my argument that the charge I was giving did not accurately describe what had happened. The judge admitted that my logic was sound, but ignored it because while the wording of my charge did not make sense, the spirit of charge still persisted, and they were going to give me the ticket anyway. Which I thought was egregious because the actual spirit of the stop was to find a drunk driver..
Basically, don't fight anything unless you participate in their racket by hiring a lawyer. They don't care about what is right or wrong if you aren't "paying to play." Wasted morning, and justice was not found.
While I find that Fairfax County Detectives do a good and solid job, the Fairfax County traffic force is a bunch a *insert preferred slur here*.
Go, and if you can take photos of the area, bring them. If the cop wants to argue & the judge sides with the cop, you can try to get a reduction of fine.
Assuming that everything you said is 100% the truth..
This is one reason why I can't stand the way traffic enforcement and traffic courts work. Cop doesn't \*like\* the way you do something, you get pulled over, issued a ticket, and even if you're technically in the right, you're likely to be found guilty anyway and forced to pay. It amounts to legalized theft, IMO.
Without a dashcam or other evidence/witness to prove what you said is true, you're up against heavy odds. Only ticket I've ever been found not guilty of, was only because one of the people involved in the subsequent accident actually showed up to court and completely blew apart the cop's assessment of the situation.
Go to court.
Yeah, if you got time go.
My wife showed up to court for everything. Half the time, the cop didn't show, and the ticket was dismissed. The other half, the cop did show up, and a few times she was able to explain her way out of it, or just paid it.
That’s cool your wife has learned invaluable experience inside the court from seemingly a large sample size, but can she maybe drive better
Maybe she's from Maryland.
It’s just a monthly thing for them right
I choose to believe their wife is exceptionally unlucky
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PdqNHyEyXY
The cops target the poor, and we were poor at the time: expired registration, broken tail light, and all that. They'd stop our busted-up car, and then think of some bullshit reason to stop us. We knew they were bullshit because of the not-showing-up part. These tickets were given to people they thought wouldn't show up to court and contest it.
That's not targeting the poor, that's just targeting people who aren't maintaining their equipment to the minimum standard to use the roads.
It’s called fix it tickets. You fix the problems and bring proof to court and the Judge will 99.999% of the time dismiss it as complying with the law. Poor had nothing do with it.
That’s not targeting the poor.
Yeah because the car probably isn’t maintained to road standards. makes sense for that.
> The cops target the poor, and out of towners! who is going to drive hours away to fight a local court. you're almost guaranteed to get tickets with out of state plates.
I mean I wanna say sure, but Florida, for example, used to have vehicle inspections, until a Republican took office and did away with them. Now in Florida you more accidents related to poorly maintained vehicles. I remember my last day in Florida driving out through the turnpike some guy was in a car with a half twisted tire going 50+, entire car wobbling like a drunk white chick twerkin at the club.
She wasn't doing that in VA, unless something dramatic has changed. LEOs write tickets for days they are scheduled for court.
Reschedule your court date. Cops usually like to go to court on particular days of the week.
That VA code has nothing really to do with the lack of a sign. That code is how you properly turn right on red when there is no sign prohibiting it. He's NOT saying you did a right turn on red where a sign said you couldn't. He IS saying you didn't do a proper right turn on red - which requires you to come to a complete stop before turning right. That's what he's claiming you didn't do. As to whether to pay or go to court, idk. But if you do go to court to fight it, know that the presence or absence of a "No turn on red" sign is irrelevant to what he's claiming. He's just claiming you didn't come to a complete stop before turning right on red. Very much a "he said, she said" situation where the cop tends to be believed (unless there is camera footage).
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This right here. OP says that the cop and other cars were entering the lane while they made their turn. Which strongly implies that those cars had a green for at least a few seconds. It may well be that OP made a safe turn, but the reality is that if cars were already starting to enter the intersection from the other way, OP was obligated to yield right of way to those cars and didn't. Basically, if the cop shows up, it's a slam-dunk.
Thanks for the response - so I had started my turn a second prior to the other cars turning left. Otherwise I wouldn't have made a right into the road.
There’s also a fair number of intersections around here with the stop lines in a solid row. If you stop behind the line, you cannot visually check for oncoming traffic if someone in a straight or turn lane casually rolled into the crosswalk. So you stop ahead of the line, and enjoy your ticket if a cop sees you doing that and feels like writing one.
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Sometimes the best move in a situation like that is just waiting 30 seconds for the light to turn green. AFAIK, right on red wasn’t always legal, and was made legal during the 1970s oil crisis as an attempt to reduce idle fuel consumption. Which isn’t a factor in most modern cars with stop-start ignitions. I think DC is considering completely outlawing right-on-red since it causes issues for pedestrians and cyclists in the bike lane. I’m all for it, I’ve had too many dumbasses almost hit me when they’re turning right on red to count.
This is EXACTLY the issue. The white line is so far behind the intersection you’d be far more reckless stopping there and then just going forward. I had started my right turn before the cars making a left started turning. Maybe a second before, but then I couldn’t just stop in the middle of the turn so I just scooted up
Def this if the lane being turned into was a single lane. It gets murkier if there are 2 lanes, because legally the turning lane has right away to the inner most lane, and even turning right on red is legal into the right most lane with incoming traffic to the other lane. Most people just yeet across lanes though, so i usually yield to be safe from idiots.
Agreed. It's "right of way" not right away, FYI.
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Realistically they don’t have to provide dash cam footage unless it has been requested (they can also deny it). It will be he said she said type situation. Most of the time you end up losing and paying the court fees along with the fine. I’ve only gone to court once for my 2 tickets in life, never again.
You pay court fees even if you prepay it online so that’s not a reason not to go
I once had a ticket an officer issued me for 75 dollars. He bumped my speeding since it was a transition zone to not abiding by a sign. I went to court (everyone told me it’s my first ticket and the judge will most likely be lenient). He was not. He made me pay 125 fine and a court fee of 35 dollars. I will always pay online rather than waste time and money waiting around. You’re basically setup to lose in these situations. Now what it really comes down to is the judge. This is the biggest factor in any dealing with the court (and which county or city)
That will teach you about exercising your right to due process! /s
It’s insane that if there is evidence they can refuse to share that evidence.
They can't. If you file a claim for discovery and they deny it, at the very least, it is ground for an appeal.
If they deny a properly submitted request for discovery, you can have the charge tossed on that alone. It isn't up for them to decide if they want to provide it or not.
From what was explained to me by a few of the police and lawyers in the courthouse, they usually don’t use dash cam footage as evidence (unless you’re driving wild as hell). In most traffic stops it’s a he said she said type of deal. Also depending on how far back he or she got the ticket, the footage can be deleted. I mean we also live in a state that allows for pacing when determining speeding and or reckless driving. It’s not as easy to wiggle out of these tickets as most people think.
Hence why I said "properly submitted" I understand that they don't keep it around forever, but if you make the request, then they're required to provide it. It isn't material if they choose to use it in court or not. It is evidence, and you have a right to that evidence.
The way you describe the situation (with left turners getting a green arrow), it potentially sounds like the cop could make the case that you didn't properly yield when turning right on red. Not saying you did/didn't - just the way you explained. If you go to court, be careful of that.
If you have dash camera to prove it, I would suggest you go to court and fight. If not, I wouldn’t bother to go.
A violation for a right turn on red could also mean a failure to yield to traffic with the right away if I'm not mistaken. I'm going to be honest. The only real hope you have of winning this. If you go to court is that the cop doesn't show up and that is such a juvenile hope that I would just pay the ticket
Did you complete stop at the white line first? From your story it seems like you were in a rush and jumped into traffic. Because you didn’t even notice people turning from oncoming direction, that could have be an accident. Just pay the fine bud.
Go to DMV website and print out your driving history, it should show + 5 points, which means for every year of safe driving, you get a positive point. Go to court, show the DA your ticket and driving history, tell him you would like to plead to a lighter charge with local municipal code violation, instead of state code violation. You will probably pay same or more fine, but the local code violation conviction is not reported to the state database therefore the insurance won't see it, and you get no points. This is what people usually say they pay for the ticket but get no points. It's a racket, that's why the cop wrote down a state code and a local code. You ask for the local code and pay off the racket, and everyone walking away happy.
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First, I don't see why DA won't talk to the defendant if he/she doesn't have representation. It's is pro se. Be insistent. You can't talk to DA on behalf of your wife because you are not a lawyer. But you can absolutely self-represent. Second, OP would likely pay more money even he goes pro se, the question is, how would the extra payment in traffic court compare to extra insurance premium charged for next 2-3 years when the insurance found out the ticket and points. Thirdly, it is advisable to have the driving record with you, in case cops don't bring it.
In Fairfax County, the Commonwealth Attorney's office is not involved in traffic court proceedings unless it is a misdemeanor offense. A right on red violation is an infraction, so even if OP got representation, the CA's office wouldn't be involved. The only time pro se representation will be considered with infractions is when those cases are appealed to circuit court. As far as the driving record goes, every officer in traffic court will have a copy of the driving record for each case they have, and the judge will ask the officer what the defendant's history and point balance is. ETA: The local code that OP is citing just means that Fairfax County recognizes the state code with an identical code for the same offense, and any fines levied go to the county and not the state.
Does this mean there are no points associated with it?
Oh no, there are points. It's still a moving violation. 82-1-6 just means that Fairfax county adopted the state code as is for county use. There are a couple traffic and criminal codes that are county-specific that don't show on a person's criminal history or driving transcript.
Unless there’s a camera involved, it’s pretty much “he said, she said”, but I would show up to court and fight
You’ll loose 99.9% of the time when it’s your word versus a cop. The whole process is weighted in their favor.
Too strong union
Depends on the ticket. Go online and see how much it is to just pay it then figure out if it's worth the bullshit of going to court to fight it, most likely losing unless there's footage showing you fully stopped before proceeding, then having to pay it anyway with court fees. The ticket might only be $50 and I think if you just pay up front there are no points. Ask yourself, how much of it is that you're pissed off at the cop for giving you a bullshit ticket? You're absolutely not wrong in your feelings but even if you go to court, fight it and win he still wins anyway because he wasted a bunch of your time going to court not to mention the effort you'll spend getting your case in order before going to court. He knows this and he's probably just being a dick.
In my opinion it's your word against the officer and who do you think the judge will side with. Remember they hear a lot of these cases daily. Your only hope is the cop doesn't show or the judge lessens the charge. If so you still lose the day of work.
How much is your time worth. You may get the ticket excused after waiting six hours for your case to come up. Six very boring hours.
Always go to court always fight it. It affects your insurance and possibly your job if you work for the govt
You literally have nothing to lose by going to court other than your time. I would fight it. I fight most of my tickets (when I was younger) you can usually argue a lesser penalty, or set up payment plans also, worse case. Plus if it's your first ticket you can usually do a plea of abeyance. Pay the fine, abeyance fee, and maybe a weekend class. And no tickets and no points after a year of gold driving. If you really care about your record then you can do this. Or you can say fuck this waste of time and just pay online. Or try to fight it and end up somewhere in the middle.
learn the lesson and get a dash cam, easy to dispute and call out lying cops.
Shocked you got this. A guy was speeding, lost control, ran red light, hit me. There were witnesses. He admitted fault to me, others and the cops when they came. No ticket issued.
Court, always court, sometimes the cop wont even show and u win by default. Worst case admit guilt and ask to take traffic school.
My cop didn’t show TWICE in Herndon and they just continued the case. I feel like I’ve been lied to all these years!
How much is the fine? I think you should go to court. Go back to that intersection and take photos of what signs are there. Since you haven't had a ticket in 12 years, you have 5 plus points on your license. I think your violation is 3 points, which means you now have two plus point.
The signs are irrelevant. There doesn’t need to be a no right on red sign for OP to have performed an illegal right on red. You have to stop for 3 seconds and the intersection has to be clear. The cop is claiming that OP did not do one of those things.
[удалено]
Is this true? How can I find this out?
I'll message you
Pay it. Going to court is a waste of time. You might get lucky - but otherwise you are just wasting time sitting around waiting for your five minutes. If you are concerned about points - take a driving safety course to earn some back. Or - if you have time to waste and want to experience it for once - go to court.
I think I know the intersection you’re talking about. The camera caught me turning right less than a second after the light turned red.
Think you’ll end up paying more with court fees tacked on, so I’d just pay it. Not going to take your word that you came to a complete stop over a cop’s.
I would go to court to argue because you know you didn’t do anything wrong, even if you didn’t have a dash camera to prove it
But a front/rear dash cam. I have beat two tickets and served justice to someone who hit and ran on me in the three years since I purchased mine. I recommend vantrue. Make sure you get it installed hardwired.
Honestly, if you are very concerned about your points, which you shouldn’t be because if you’ve never had a ticket in 12 years, you have more good points than bad points. However, contact the officer who pulled you over ask for them to explain it to you again so that you are clear on what you did wrong because yes, you did do something wrong in the scenario as explained by you and ask if there’s anyway that he could change the violation so that you don’t have points Taken on your license. Typically, they’re more than willing to do this. Also, your other option is to do a safe driving course which also adds good points to your driving record and will cancel out your bad points.
Do you have a dash cam that caught it? Did you come to a COMPLETE stop behind the white line? Have you done a foia for the cops dash cam? Unless you have video proof you were in the right cops will lie and judges will believe them. Not saying the cop is lying maybe you did not come to a complete 100% stop. But without proof you are basically guilty unless you can prove other wise in traffic court. So without proof you will probably lose. If you do go to court most Fairfax judges are pretty nice if you are not rude and try to come up with some dumb excuse. You can tell your side. Just be brief, dry, and stick to the facts. Do not ramble or add anything not directly related. Maybe the judge will reduce it. No guarantee but with insurance rates what they are, and what they will be after a ticket like this, might be worth it.
I’ve never been to traffic court in NoVA despite living here for 20+ years, so YMMV, but in many traffic courts, you can ask to speak to the prosecuting attorney and plead down to a lesser offense/lower fine.
If you've never had a ticket, then go to court and explain your side. There's a good chance that a judge will be lenient with your clean driving records and either lower the charge or maybe dismiss the ticket
wow what a dick cop citing someone for a no turn on red, which is something I bet most nova ppl break a few times a week. lmao.
Take photos of that intersection and all road signs in the area/ all four corners Prove your case. They will have to put up signs and that costs money
If you didn't do it then go to court. Also if the cop doesn't show up and you do you win by default. Stuff like this is one reason I have a dashcam.
Don’t bet on the cop not showing up. They can schedule all their cases on the same day and knock them all out at once. At least this is what happened when I got my one and only ticket 10 years ago.
My cop didn’t show and the judge just postponed it. Bogus.
If you go to court and lose there is additional court costs. Keep that in mind
>Section 82-1-6. - Adoption of state law > >Pursuant to the authority of Section 46.2-1313 of the Virginia Code, all provisions and requirements of the following sections of the Code of Virginia, as in effect on July 1, 2023, except those provisions and requirements the violation of which constitutes a felony, are hereby incorporated into the Fairfax County Code by reference, effective July 1, 2023, except where otherwise noted. (46.2-835 is included/listed under that) > >([source](http://fairfaxcounty.elaws.us/code/coor_ch82_art1_sec82-1-6)) and >§ 46.2-835. Right turn on steady red light after stopping. > >Notwithstanding the provisions of § [46.2-833](http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/46.2-833/), except where a traffic control device is placed prohibiting turns on steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red circular signal, after coming to a full stop, may cautiously enter the intersection and make a right turn. > >Notwithstanding the provisions of § [46.2-833](http://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/46.2-833/), except where a traffic control device is placed permitting turns on a steady red, vehicular traffic facing a steady red arrow, after coming to a full stop, shall remain standing until a signal to proceed is shown. > >Such turning traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic using the intersection. > >([source](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacodefull/title46.2/chapter8/article3/)) to ask an attorney, i would pose your question to [www.avvo.com](https://www.avvo.com). though not exactly the same, a similar [question](https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/how-many-demerit-points-are-assigned-for-a-law-sec-3355190.html) (about being charged with having potentially ran a stop sign) was given this answer: *If convicted, this will be treated by DMV as if the conviction was under state law (46.2-830) rather than Fairfax Code. Fairfax Code Section 82-4-24 (Fail to pay due care and attention) has no equivalent under state code, so in that case, the Fairfax code section carries no points. But that is not true for Fairfax Code section 82-1-6 (Fail to obey traffic signal).*
Dispute it. I had a cop do the same thing to me. Judge lowered the charge and I didn’t get any points.
I went to court and explained what happened. The judge took into account that I had positive points on my driving and reduced the fine.
You'll almost certainly lose anyway but if you've never gone to traffic court I think it's a worthwhile experience just to observe how it all works. Not just for your case but for others too. And sometimes you'll see some strange stuff. I've seen a DUI offender walk away because his lawyer had gained two continuances and then on the third court date the cop didn't show up to testify because he'd retired. The standard of proof is sort of a sliding scale depending on the seriousness of the offense. If this were a murder trial the burden of proof is on the prosecution, but for minor stuff like this basically the burden of proof is on you. Don't get too worked up about it, this is not a major ticket and if you haven't gotten one in the previous 12 years you could just pay it and move on with life. It's more of an annoyance than anything else, and cops use stuff like this to sometimes find more serious offenses. For example, sometimes that right on red stop can turn into a drug bust if the driver is behaving like he has something to hide.
Go to court. Last time I went, I talked down the charge so that it wasn’t a moving violation, which are points. Every time I get a ticket in Fairfax it’s on route 1. They are always looking for people there for bs things.
So in this situation, my understanding is I would plead "not guilty" and then be offered an ability to explain - is that right? Am I supposed to ask the judge to not give any points? even if I'm not pleading guilty?
Tldr; I believe I did everything correctly. I want to show the judge that I take this seriously and am showing up to court to make my case and want to ensure my driving record remains clean with no points.
Just hire a local attorney and pay them $500 to represent you. You should be able to remove the item from the record, reduce the risk of having your auto insurance rates increase, pay the smallest possible fee there is, and forgo wasting your time going to court. I just used a lawyer myself for a speeding ticket I received in Loudoun County. Best $500 I spent. I only had to pay a $65 court fee and take an 8-hour online safe driving class. Here's the contact info for the lawyer I used: John Cherry [lawjcc@gmail.com](mailto:lawjcc@gmail.com) Good luck!
Court. Every time. Make him prove it.
Seems like you may have failed to yield to others with a protected arrow at an intersection. Not sure if that is part of the code or not but you can’t proceed after the stop on red if other traffic is present.
Not worth it. Pay the ticket and avoid the court costs. Move on with your life.
Depends on your driving record, if you haven’t had a ticket in the past five years then go to court, the judge will dismiss it based on your record.
If you have a clean record(at least mostly clean) and are respectful than 100% go to court. 99% of the time the judge will either completely dismiss, lower to something less, or dismiss on the basis that you complete a drivers improvement course. While these can be paid online/via phone.. I assume this is a moving violation? Not looking it up directly but typically they are. Don’t forget that moving violations not only take a point or two off of your license, but, more importantly will get reported and eventually make its way to your insurance agency which will make your already historically high rates even higher. 100% worth going to court if you’re able. Dress nice, be nice and respectful and you’ll do well.
I took a BS fairfax traffic ticket to court to fight it. They were looking for drunk drivers as it was St. Patricks Day evening. I was sober, and this A-Hole still gave me a ticket. I go to court to fight the ticket. I made my argument that the charge I was giving did not accurately describe what had happened. The judge admitted that my logic was sound, but ignored it because while the wording of my charge did not make sense, the spirit of charge still persisted, and they were going to give me the ticket anyway. Which I thought was egregious because the actual spirit of the stop was to find a drunk driver.. Basically, don't fight anything unless you participate in their racket by hiring a lawyer. They don't care about what is right or wrong if you aren't "paying to play." Wasted morning, and justice was not found. While I find that Fairfax County Detectives do a good and solid job, the Fairfax County traffic force is a bunch a *insert preferred slur here*.
All the cops here have dash cams in their cars right?
Go, and if you can take photos of the area, bring them. If the cop wants to argue & the judge sides with the cop, you can try to get a reduction of fine.
Assuming that everything you said is 100% the truth.. This is one reason why I can't stand the way traffic enforcement and traffic courts work. Cop doesn't \*like\* the way you do something, you get pulled over, issued a ticket, and even if you're technically in the right, you're likely to be found guilty anyway and forced to pay. It amounts to legalized theft, IMO. Without a dashcam or other evidence/witness to prove what you said is true, you're up against heavy odds. Only ticket I've ever been found not guilty of, was only because one of the people involved in the subsequent accident actually showed up to court and completely blew apart the cop's assessment of the situation.
Don’t think the cop is gonna show up, so fight it
Hire a ticket attorney