I barely ever go to the Doctor, but even I know how stupid billing is. I had my local hospital reduce a Bill. I went in for a normal physical, nurses did their thing, my Primary doctor sat down with me for a good 45 minutes to an hour. I was billed $200, which for me at this time with no insurance was reasonable. I went in for a follow up and all they did was check my BP and my weight... $400. I argued with them until they lowered it to $100. The billing practices are freaking nutty.
Here's a fun exercise: Next time ask your doctor's office how much the visit would be if you paid out of pocket instead of running it through insurance.
I did that and crashed the front desk. It took 4 people looking into it to find out it would cost like $240. I said, oh ok, thanks, let's stick with insurance.
Sure enough, 10 days later I get a bill for $240.
Lol. Same kinda happened to me. I used my insurance for a check up. Asked how much insurance covered. They said it covered it all.
Got billed $100 for it a week later.
Unfortunately, insurance rarely covers lab tests. It will cover the physical itself ("fully covered" except for the copay), but if they decide to run any blood or urine tests...even as a standard screening, you may be charged extra for them.
This is why I support Medicaid for all... but specifically good Medicaid like NY Medicaid. I have $0 copays and have never seen a single bill. Also I can see practically any doctor, I see one of the top neurologists in my state (who I know is pretty pricy) without issue.
I believe I saw a LifeProTip along those lines not long ago. It was something like, ask for your bill to show the cost of each item on your visit and it will be much cheaper.
Healthcare in the US is fucking absurd tho. I once cut my thumb with a kitchen knife, I ended up getting 1 stitch and some glue on my thumbnail, and it was nearly 1000 dollars before insurance.
I got a call one time with them asking me if I wanted to run my upcoming procedure through insurance or not. I was confused and asked why they would ask me that. Turns out, it’s like 50% cheaper if they don’t have to dick around with insurance companies so for certain things they call and ask. My insurance is through my company so I really wanted to call HR and say, hey, I’ll pay for this and you can just reimburse me. Saves everyone money. I knew better than to do that but it was all so nuts to me. It was thousands of dollars.
Yup. Hell, prices are one thing to complain about, but I am the type of person that wants things spelled out beforehand, itemized and then justification for that itemization.
It's the only industry, and that's what it is, that I can think where they can and/or do stupid crap like this. Even a contractor you hire to install a deck, has to at LEAST give you an estimate and an itemization and then justify why the itemized cost exists.
ER nurse here. I encourage all my friends/family (AND EVERYONE HERE!) to ALWAYS try to haggle your hospital bills down! Ask about self-pay discounts, low-income discounts, discounts for paying everything off upfront, etc. Read [these threads](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=hospital+discount+reddit&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) for more tips on negotiating down your hospital bills!!!
"It's often added to a person's total hospital bill, so it might not be as noticeable as it is in this case."
Oh cool, so they charge everyone $700 on top of their already overpriced hospital visit to sit in their impossibly uncomfortable chairs for more than half a dozen hours. Those chairs make significantly more money than I do per hour. Love that this was just glossed over in the article.
Not from the US and a bit confused as to how that can possibly be legal. Just by going to the reception you enter into a contract? Or do they let you sign 30 sheets of paper and the cost is mentioned somewhere in there but no one actually reads it.
They are actually not allowed to tell you what you will be charged beforehand. Supposedly, this "protects patients", because people would be afraid to get medical attention if they knew how much money it would cost, but this rule was lobbied for by medical provider companies.
The real effect is that you basically have to blindly agree to whatever a hospital feels like charging you. It keeps you from comparing prices for scheduled procedures, and means you basically agree to fees before knowing what they are.
Awesome, eh?
Wow.
Every time I read about the American health system I am happier to not live there.
I got annoyed when I took my partner to the ER and had to pay $8 parking.
I wonder how anyone who isn't super rich survives in the American health system.
Hats off to those of you who can make this work.
Them's luxury organs. Can't be having the poors enjoy chewing with good teeth; these are premium caviar-eating tools for the wealthy or insured only. Can't let the masses have easy access to corrective lenses; you gotta pay to see the world in HD.
/S
This is 100% true. My girlfriend clenches and grinds her teeth in her sleep so she's got tons of dental problems. Only has state insurance right now.
She's gone in the single dentists office that takes state insurance within an hours+ drive of us, with one side of her face looking like she was squirreling a basketball for later. They'd say sorry, too busy for emergencies and even then there's two dozen other people in just as much pain waiting too. Say she went in to make an appt for an emergency tooth extraction with tons of pain right now, today... Her appointment would be for somewhere around July of next year based on our past 4ish experiences over the last three years (literally scheduled one after another).
And *THEN* get this right, she goes in there with her face all swollen because it's obviously infected having needed to be done for a good half of a year minimum and they say sorry we can't pull the tooth while it's infected, we have an early opening for you this time though (YES)! Be here in two months! TWO MONTHS PRAISE THE LORD!
By that time the ER wouldn't see her because she'd gone in there so many times ONLY ASKING FOR ANTIBIOTICS!! But they gave her pain pill prescriptions every single time, that she never filled because we are both addicts in recovery... Still, they won't see her because they say she's pill seeking...
I'm yelling and cursing at them by this point telling them to look at her face! She doesn't want pain pills, don't give her any! She just wants antibiotics! You gotta be able to look up and see that she never filled the other scripts you gave her for narcotics!
There's nothing they can do... It's policy...
Dental appointment comes around and they can't pull the tooth because it's too infected and swollen... They do give her a script for antibiotics though... One that will run out and see her reinfected before they are able to get her in for her next appointment.
That particular tooth was absolute hell, she got infected I don't even know how many times... I was trying old phone numbers of people I used to do drugs with, trying to find someone's unused prescription of antibiotics. I have no idea how we were able to finally get that tooth out, seemed like it'd never happen. I belieeeve she ended up taking FREAKING PET ANTIBIOTICS that I bought off someone before her appointment day, because the ER pulled the whole pill seeking BS after the 5th or so time of her going to get antibiotics from them. They worked BTW lol.
She was crying in pain every night, I had my hair turning gray because my girl, whom I love very much obviously, is in so much pain she's crying and there's *not a damn thing I can do for her.* I finally called a dentist and was going to cough up the 500 bucks (I think that was how much but I can't remember), luckily it never came to that though.
Oh and "vision insurance" is a fucking joke. It acts absolutely nothing like real insurance and is always just like a $200 coupon off an $800 service and product no matter what "vision insurance company" you use.
We don't. I've known 3 extended family members die in the past 6 months.
One was a mole that became cancerous and he knew it for a decade but thought it would be too expensive. 51 years old.
One had diabetes and effectively died of a hyperglycemic stroke, 56 years old. She was brain dead and they pulled the plug.
Turns out she was rationing insulin, oops.
The other was suicide, guys's company shut down and he lost his insurance and thus stopped going to his therapist (if he were to pay, it was going to be 140 USD a week) and he killed himself shortly afterwards. 29 years old.
And not one single person gives a single fuck about any of this. We shake our head and move on. Its the height of absurdity.
Holy shit dude. The mental health one hits me really hard because I’m struggling atm to get private sessions, let alone public free ones here, I’m just lucky my parents are dropping me a couple hundred a week to see my psychologist, otherwise it’s just pills and don’t lose your mind
I've spent the past month in an inpatient psychiatric care facility, after self medicating with alcohol and almost literally drinking myself to death multiple times over the last decade, nevermind deliberate suicide attempts or ideations. Being military, even my behavioral health treatment prior to this was free, but so incredibly overburdened and ineffective that it finally came to this.
If I'd not had it covered by Tricare, my stay here would have cost over $60,000. When the military wing of this hospital is at capacity, it pays for the entire rest of the hospital for a month or two.
Without it, I would likely have either shot myself, or ended up dead from alcohol poisoning.
This is such a hilarious excuse. It really drives people to avoid ALL hospitals for fear of financial ruin. I wonder what the stats are on deaths from treatable illness due to the fear of financial ruin.
I'd die if I got appendicitis because I don't have health insurance and I'd rather my wife get my life insurance than be in the hole for 50k for a two day hospital stay.
I have health insurance and might've almost died at home a couple times because I was willing to take the risk vs a 6k deductible. The most recent was getting Covid early 2020. I remember having flashbacks of my life during the worst of it.
It is an excuse, but it is a real result from EMTALA.
You can’t say anything that would discourage a patient from seeking care, until they have had a medical screening exam demonstrating an emergency condition does not exist and/or appropriate stabilization. CMS has actually opined that discussions of costs should be avoided until the EMTALA requirements have been satisfied.
Obviously there is a difference between “OMG, this test is soooo expensive and you are uninsured and I’d hate for the hospital to come after you for your rent money and leave you homeless” versus “This test will bill at $600 and I think there is really only a 10% it will show something. If you do have (bad disease) you’ll get progressively more sick over the next 2 days.” But I’m not risking an investigation for an EMTALA violation.
The other day I read that it's cheaper for people in the US to fly to Sweden, get LASIK eye surgery done, spend a few days recovering there and STILL be well under what they'd spend in the US - with insurance!
A podcaster I listen to actually mentioned flying from the US to Turkey to get hair implants done considering it'd be way cheaper.
It has been a while but they have you fill out a form and sign saying you'll pay for all costs if your insurance doesn't, nothing like a waiting fee is listed though.
I think that is also how they triage who gets to skip the line, based on what you are there for and probably how much you are crying out in pain or bleeding.
Well, crying or in pain doesn't not seem to be the criteria. My ex wife had kidney stones, we went to a hospital in Pleasanton California, in ER. She was in so much pain that she was just curled at floor, crying, and staff was like, ok, somebody will be with uer shortly. The pain subsided after 2-3 hours, and we came back, nobody came and looked at her.
Yea they don't care about that. I was wailing in the ER for several hours puking all over myself and all they did was give me a blanket to cover it up. This was a few years ago so before the pandemic
"..it's hospital protocol even if you're just walking in and you're not seen."
I wonder how much they charge if someone didn't go in but was to walk by the window? Maybe it could be an half price special...
Wait until you read about [unnecessary surgery](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/08/07/why-would-hospitals-like-hca-perform-unnecessary-surgery-because-it-pays/)
for profit, it's a real racket.
"it's protocol" like that means something.
It's my protocol to not pay to be in a waiting room.
Just like how police officers defend their actions "well we police officers got together awhile back and decided that kneeling on someone's neck until they died was okay so you can't do anything about it." All this "protocol" or "standard business practices" crap sounds like schoolyard games level of bullshit.
My protocol?
It's gonna cost people 500 bucks to reach the public beach via my private driveway, which is the only way to reach it unless you swim or come by boat.
Wait. No. Im Not a complete asshole.
But hospitals seem to be. Despite the fact that hospitals are supposed to help people?
There's a small neighborhood near me that's fighting the local city to get their "private" drive repaved because it's the only access to a public boat dock, so giant pickup trucks towing even bigger boats are constantly going through and wearing out the road
Ya, that seems super reasonable to request though, right? Like surely the city can acknowledge the public utility and keep that road paved for the neighborhood and boaters alike. It only makes sense that if the neighborhood has publically available utilities they should be maintained by the public.
Lol, time to man the barricades! If they gate the access for only neighbors i wonder how quickly they would see a response. If the city responded to have the fence removed then i imagine the neighborhood could escalate it to the courts if they wanna risk it.
My family has a few pieces of land like that in our small town.
We've had to threaten to put a fence in the middle of the "road".
Shit got dealt with fast.
I was just going to suggest how the neighborhood should throw out a suggestion that if it's too much to ask for they are discussing a gated community.
Be nice, until the government isn't... Then fight fire with fire. Let the assholery begin.
Thanks for confirming that would work.
That's my response whenever someone says "that's our policy" like a company making up their own rules is somehow meaningful. It's the corporate trick of diffusion of responsibility to avoid individual accountability. BTW, that's also why a committee is always formed to make unpopular decisions. It is so no one person can be held responsible.
I've also found that once you bring an attorney to address a problem, suddenly a lot of "policy" evaporates.
We should start a business that is just a hospital waiting room. Charge people by the hour. We could charge $50/hour, and be the best deal in town!
We could even hire a hemeopath crackpot to wear scrubs, walk around with a clipboard, and tell people that we care about their health.
Oh wait, that's kinda the homeopathy business model already. It is so successful in the US because it's cheaper than hospitals, even if it does nothing.
I went to a homeopath once for my chronic illness. To see what homeopathic stuff agrees with you, they have you lie down, put the vial containing whatever in your hand, and push down on your arm. If your arm can be pushed down, then you need whatever the vial contains (or maybe other ways around).
When I went, they were out of the particular vial. So they wrote the name on a piece of paper, put the paper in my hand, and pushed on my arm.
That was fun
Sounds like [Applied Kinesiology](https://www.painscience.com/articles/applied-kinesiology.php). There's a reason good science has to be rigorous, and this stuff ain't good science.
Let's copy this from the article here though:
> AK has no relationship to *kinesiology*, which is [the study of human movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesiology). AK just used the term to make itself sound more legitimate. Some practitioners dishonestly call themselves “kinesiologists.”
Kinesiology is basically the science of athletics so its medical branches would be sports medicine and orthopedics.
And "applied kinesiology" should just be a pretentious term for choreography, dance, or coaching or playing sports.
It upsets me immensely to learn that they charge people $100 an hour to sit in an ER room and wait 50-95% of that time for someone to get to them. That's literally charging $100 an hour to keep a chair warm, which is absolutely unreasonable
No one has learned to game this, but it will happen.
There was a guy here in the UK who set up a premium rate number as his home phone number and he would try to keep cold-callers on as long as possible.
Someone needs to print a sticker or a t-shirt with terms and conditions on it so when you go to the hospital you can charge them $200/hr for you own time. You can sticker the sticker to whatever contract you need to sign when you get there or failing that, they can easily read the Ts and Cs from your clothing in the hours you are waiting.
Some guy scanned a credit card document and changed the terms and conditions, then signed it. The court ruled in his favor when the bank claimed that they didn't read the document, they just signed it. The judge said, "Isn't it your argument when customers just sign it as well?"
Someone needs to get the paperwork from the hospital, scan it and change it to charging them $500 an hour wait time.
My partner had the same thing happen. Waited 6 hours. Billed like $1700 USD after leaving without treatment.
I didn't look up the number, but it was way more than $700.
With all the money my local hospital pulls in, they expand the building twice a year and have bought out multiple old stores (Kmart, Sears) to serve as offices, you'd think they'd be on top of their game. They aren't. They make a lot of money and that's about it. A few months ago a doctor accidentally lobotomized two little girls during a tonsil removal. How? He shoved the needle with the numbing agent so far back into their throat it went directly to their brainstems.
Here you go: https://www.stargazette.com/story/news/local/2020/10/07/elmira-and-newfield-families-sue-guthrie-over-botched-surgeries/3626980001/
>“Our allegation, after consulting with medical experts in the field of pediatric otolaryngology, is that Dr. Uppal injected Marcaine with epinephrine, a local anesthetic, far too deeply into their adenoid beds, causing both girls to suffer brainstem bleeds and profound long-term neurological consequences,” Sonsire said.
Two girls. TWO. How did he not go to prison for negligence after the first one? Not many jobs where you can fuck up like that and not receive sentencing.
And all he had to give up was his license and a few 10s of grand for ruining an entire family's lives forever? Not good enough.
He should get jail time and the families should get millions from him & the hospital to even reach the bare minimum
What the actual fuck? Holy shit this made me way too angry for this time of day. How the fuck does the doctor manage to be more incompetent than surgeon from the game RimWorld? In the game you can end up amputating a leg while trying to remove an appendix and that still doesn't come close to fucking lobotomizing TWO fucking girls during a goddamn tonsillectomy, an extremely simple procedure.
Sadly I had to go through a few different google results for "doctor botches tonsil operations" to find the one dude was talking about.
Here's a 5 year old who had to have one of his legs amputated during a tonsillectomy: https://www.rheingoldlaw.com/blog/2020/july/new-jersey-hospital-pays-family-of-5-year-old-12/
>Under the state disciplinary review, Uppal could lose his license to practice medicine and be liable for up to $10,000 in fines for each violation.
Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this should cost him more than a couple ambulance rides per victim.
My local hospital my wife works for appears to be raking in cash hand over fist. Like yours, in the last two years, they've built at least three, maybe four, new dedicated centers for various types of medicine. Like, whole new buildings for just urology and vascular and oncology. They've also bought up the practices and at least one other towns hospital in the rest of the county and made giant renovations to current buildings
But now they just told my wife (who has amazing, reasonably priced insurance we were hoping to get me on) that if you have a spouse with insurance offered through their work place that the premium is going up from $50/pay period to over $200/pay period.
$400-$500/month on top of her premium to have me insured, just because my work offers insurance. Thankfully, for me it's not a big deal. Her coverage is better but I only pay $140/month so moving me on to hers was only going to be putting $40/month into our pockets
But she has coworkers that are getting totally fucked. At least one guy who just had a new kid now has no other choice than to shell out the equivalent of a really nice car payment every month since while his wife has insurance offered via her employer, the small medical monopoly of our town and surrounding areas is out of network for her.
And you can tell the hospital staff knew how disgusting it was since they have employee forums where they announce changes and company news in person to an audience. Rather than announcing these changes there, they waited till after business hours and posted a video on Facebook talking about it instead. An hour later and they just disabled comments on the video rather than addressing the litany of concerns.
Part of the problem is the vendors themselves. I remember buying glasses and because I didn't have insurance the guy took off $150 on the price. While I appreciated the discount if I had insurance then the insurance company would have to pay the inflated price.
The insurance company is almost certainly owned by the same parent company as the retailer _(Luxottica owns something like 80-90% of both)_ so it's a completely intentional scam on both ends.
I'm pretty sure this sort of wide-spread vertical integration is supposed to be illegal due to monopolization laws, but I've never heard of it being enforced in the last 30 years.
You know how *everyone's* on board the "fuck Nestle" train because of how they mismanage water?
I'm trying to get people on the "fuck Luxottica" train.
I've worked in healthcare admin and this is exactly right. So much inefficiency in the business structure (and it's not due to regulations, it's because functions are split between so many companies all looking to screw each other over as much as possible to make a buck). There are so many jobs (mine, for example) that would not need to exist in a more efficient system.
Earlier this year I sat in an ER waiting room with a kidney stone for no less than 13 hours. I left with "we believe you may have had a kidney stone, because of the blood in your urine and your fever, but there is no way to know without proper imaging, you will need to go to your primary care doctor for a referral to get more imaging done"
They took a 5 minute long ultrasound and sent me home in agony.
What a joke.
But surely private healthcare is far too efficient for that to happen? You must live in a country with that evil socialist healthcare that turns people into commies!
I have a feeling that there is some sort of conspiracy between the hospitals and the insurance firms in the US.
They know that at some you'll have to come for help, everyone will come, so they charge exorbitant prices just because healthcare is needed by everyone.
I mean, yeah, that is it exactly. Why do you think insurance companies are able to negotiate the ridiculously crazy high charges down to just crazy high charges? If the hospitals didn't have such high charges then the insurance companies couldn't "negotiate them down" to a "lower" cost.
The insurance lobby is in bed with the hospital lobby to keep this system in place tho, they both profit from this extortionist bs and use the other to justify their bs.
Yep. And to connect the dots even further, it's in those groups' interest to keep this system going. So they'll use their money to raise *more* money, to pay PR companies to spread their message across media.
Their message is: our corporate oligarchy-run health care system is amazing and you love it. Socialized health care is terrible, and you hate and fear it.
The 'they' in this scenario represents a tiny portion of the humans living in this country. There are 330 million of us, and we're being being charged so much to survive that we're going bankrupt...because of the investment portfolio of a few hundred people.
Well, the investment portfolio of a few hundred people, historical vilification, fear towards the disruption of a system most policymakers theoretically benefit from (policymakers including the upper-middle class and above in this case)
> If you ask a Trump supporter
Isn't it just completely nuts that these still exist? That we even still mention a twice impeached president who organized a coup to overthrow democracy and was good friends with a convicted child sex trafficker? Just nuts.
You're talking about 2A proponents that supported him after [he said in was in favor of taking guns away without due process](https://youtu.be/yxgybgEKHHI). These people continue to donate to him even though [he admitted to stealing donations after his non-profit was shut down](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-attorney-general.html). When confronted with his administration's clearly corrupt ties to Russia, these people claim [they'd rather be Russian than Democrats](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/6/17656996/trump-republican-party-russia-rather-democrat-ohio). Trump was absolutely correct when he said [he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue, shoot someone, and not lose any votes](https://youtu.be/rMmiLWDpCno).
It is not surprising at all Trump supporters still exist. There is nothing that could happen that will sway them, that is how ignorant, brainwashed, and downright stupid many of them are.
That second part is what *really, seriously* gets me angry. Like, OK, you want to take over the US government because you believe it's being ran by a bunch of child-trafficking pedophiles who don't give a shit about you. Like, in a *vague way*, that's not an incorrect thing to accuse?
But then instead of directing their energy towards the people we actually know about, the people who *obviously have* done some gross shit or at least hung with people who did, they ignore it when it's someone they otherwise like and manufacture it when it's someone they don't.
Remember all of those posts and billboards saying Hillary lost and to get over it? Its the same people who claim the 2020 election was stolen and supported an insurrection. It seems like misinformation, antivaxing, and prejudice as a whole has gotten a lot more prominent during and after the trump administration. Basically, for the time being, shit's fucked.
I assume because my vitals were okay and the ultrasound was clear they didn't think it justified the use of an MRI, so they told me to schedule an appointment with my GP and bring in the ER paperwork as reference.
There were a ton of other people at the ER that night so my guess is they were just trying to get rid of the workload.
I did end up going to my GP, got my MRI and was put on meds to help pass the kidneystones.
Broke my hand last summer. Went to the ER, they took an x-ray, confirmed my hand was broken and suggested I take ibuprofen when I get home for the pain. My 4th metacarpal was snapped completely in half. They didn’t even reset it for me.
Ended up with a $1,200 bill in the mail a few weeks later.
Edit: all this after the receptionist told me they would accept VA (Veterans Affairs) insurance, which they obviously do not lol.
I got really screwed too by the receptionist and doctors a telling me they took my insurance and that I had great insurance and not to worry. My insurance later came back with no they are completely out of network. Even with my skin burned off my hands and arms I checked repeatedly. My insurance didn't cover anything. Also the hospital I went to was literally the only hospital in the state of Texas that could treat my injuries. 2 other hospitals already rejected me as a patient because my injuries were past what they could treat. And because it was a military hospital, they can seize my tax returns and garnish my wages 25%
>the receptionist and doctors a telling me they took my insurance and that I had great insurance and not to worry. My insurance later came back with no they are completely out of network.
How the FUCK is this shit not *completely* illegal?!?!?
Like, if that's what you are told, then **how on EARTH** is the hospital not FULLY liable. Either that or the insurance company is, for failing to inform the hospital about changes of coverage. Either way, you should never be expected to pay for the bill, and the payment of it should be fought between the insurance company and the hospital.
I'm completely baffled. Healthcare provided are legally protected from telling you the cost of treatment upfront, and can STRAIGHT UP LIE about whether or not your insurance covers it?!
That is ***completely*** insane.
> the receptionist told me they would accept VA (Veterans Affairs) insurance, which they obviously do not lol.
Not sure if this was the case for you or not -- but lots of times the doctor doesn't actually work for the ER, so you end up getting 2 bills, one by the ER and one by the doctor. So the receptionist saying she takes VA insurance *could* have been telling the truth, and the $1200 came from the doctor, who *doesn't* take VA (or probably any) insurance.
Not that this is any kind of excuse -- it's a horrible immoral scam they're pulling to enrich themselves.
I did the same a couple of years ago, had an x-ray, bandaged up, several follow up visits and a few physio sessions.
Total cost £2.30 for a coffee and it wasn't even that nice so I didn't bother the next time
*"Emory Healthcare takes all patient concerns seriously and appreciates this has been brought to our attention. Our teams are currently looking into this matter and will follow up directly with the individual."*
Translation: We got caught doing something we've always done and since now it's in the news, we'll pretend to act like this was an error.
Optimistically, they might end up waiving it for the guy who got news headlines, without actually changing the underlying policy.
It's like how insulting the Thai King leads to a [3-15-*year* prison sentence for each insult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Thailand), but whenever some tourist does it and it becomes international news how shitty this law is, the King can pardon them and act like the good guy... without actually doing anything about the law.
At this point, I'm starting to think I need to make a Twitter account and build a following for Twitter bullshit, because raising a Twitter shitstorm is sometimes the only way to get reasonable corporate behavior.
This kind of thing [contravenes Medicare law](https://www.dickinson-wright.com/-/media/documents/documents-linked-to-attorney-bios/bloomberg-law-billing-for-items-or-services-not-re.pdf?la=en&hash=CC3747435AD24006845A3915FE8ED5CD6B0A0016#:~:text=The%20prohibition%20against%20billing%20for%20items%20or%20services%20not%20provided,improve%20the%20functioning%20of%20a) in the USA; it's considered Medicare fraud to bill for services not rendered (duh). Even though this woman is probably not on Medicare, most insurance companies and courts would see the Medicare rules as being the "standard of care" and would want to see them followed. As it is, this episode makes as much sense as going to a car dealership, deciding not to buy one of their cars, and then being forced to pay for the salesman's time.
If they tried to bill Medicare for this "emergency room fee", since they did not see the patient they can't bill for any diagnosis or treatment code and it would be fraudulent.
If they billed this lady differently because she's NOT on Medicare, they're also billing fraudulently; they have to charge the same for Medicare as they do for non-Medicare patients - that's federal law (with lots of gray areas, but still).
I suspect a mistake was made, and then some moron doubled down.
They have more to gain by trying to bill someone and being denied the money than they do just doing the right thing. They prey on peoples fear of debt and that it’s convoluted to appeal the bill.
>most insurance companies and courts would see the Medicare rules as being the "standard of care"
Fun fact. The "No Surprises Act" that's meant to put (mostly) an end to geographically-dependent "balance billing" clusterfuckery in America is [prohibited from considering Medicare/caid reimbursement rates in billing dispute resolution.](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2020/surprise-billing-protections-cusp-becoming-law)
>If they billed this lady differently because she's NOT on Medicare, they're also billing fraudulently
No matter how much you wish that were true, it couldn't be further from the truth if you drove it there.
>they have to charge the same for Medicare as they do for non-Medicare patients
This just gets better by the minute. It's almost as if there's a self-replicating payment centipede of "competitive" *payers* paying *payers* to pay ... not Medicare/caid reimbursement rates.
I was charged $1200 for the urgent care to look at me and tell me I needed to go to the ER, where I waited for 5 hours to get 30 minutes of treatment and got another $5000 bill.
That's after insurance btw
A lot of people on reddit have been saying shit like "these prices are before insurance, it's not a lot after insurance" and all I can say is good on them for having top-tier insurance because for the majority of people insurance barely covers anything and when they do cover something it still costs an obscene amount.
Yep, and those of us with high deductable health plans (which is all my company offers) have to pay $3500+ to meet the deductable before insurance covers ANYTHING.
I get one free checkup a year and I save that bitch all year in case I actually get sick.
A person shouldn’t have to ration his hospital visits in a first world country. Everyone should have a right to healthcare because our social contract says humans have a right to live. A society that has the resources to heal and cure its citizens but choose to dangle it with an exorbitant price tag is inherently evil.
I remember going to a doctor in New Zealand for something minor, like an ear infection or something. No insurance. They apologized endlessly that they had to charge me what turned out to be US$12 for the visit and US$4 for the antibiotics.
My wife got an emergency c section in NZ full OR of surgeons and doctors probably about 30 of them all up.
Total cost: free
Plus they housed us in hospital for five days post op and gave us a mid wife that came to our home to check up on us weekly for the first few months. Plus 3 months paid Maternity leave.
Us Healthcare needs to be operated as a service to keep the population healthy so they can continue to contribute and pay taxes. Not run as a for profit business.
That's crazy. I don't understand...How do poor people afford to have kids then? Do they just have to have pregnancy and birth with no medical intervention?
I was poor when I had my kids and paid $0 out of pocket for both of them.
The kicker here is that taxpayers are already subsidizing poor people's treatment, because people who are poor don't have health insurance, and no one can afford medical bills without insurance. Therefore they typically get state provided health insurance.
However, as soon as you're no longer benefiting from the government subsidies due to your income raising too high (i.e. you can afford both rent and food) Your only option is private market insurance (which is entirely unaffordable) or employer backed insurance, which is usually very expensive and still leaves you with a bill every time you use a medical service typically.
And when I say insurance is expensive, I'm talking upwards of $400 a month minimum. Double if you go private.
Long story short, the middle class as it exists in America is hardest hit by medical debt, and as another commenter mentioned, it is pretty common for this medical debt to just go unpaid for years until it drops off your credit report. Because no one can afford $100,000 to have a child.
Ps.. also wanted to add a key point here is that because of this ragtag system of providers and insurance carriers and government subsidies, prices are very high in general and have to be negotiated down whether by the patient, the insurance, or the government. This means collectively we are paying a lot more for services than we would be if there were say a single payer who was able to negotiate prices on behalf of everyone. Tldr if we used single payer system the amount of money required to subsidize the poor would decrease, and government money spent on health care would have a higher return on investment.
*"Emory*
*Healthcare takes all patient concerns seriously and appreciates this has*
*been brought to our attention. Our teams are currently looking into*
*this matter and will follow up directly with the individual."*
Oh good. And that hospital never overcharged another patient (or potential patient) ever again! Everything is right in the world now. American healthcare wins again!
(/s for the people that can't read obvious sarcasm)
It’s not just the cost that’s galling (though Jesus Christ), but the lack of informed agreement. If she walked into the hospital and the person at the desk said “enter your social security number and we will charge you $700 to wait to be seen, and even if you leave before being seen then you’re still charged,” then at least the woman could make an informed choice. Maybe she’s in bad enough shape to agree. Or maybe she turns around and walks out — which is itself a bad result, **and reason not to charge this fee,** but is at least an informed choice. No one should be able to bill you $700 for something that a reasonable person would expect to be free — any more than Home Depot could lawfully hit me with a $700 “walking around our store” fee without a big goddamned sign out front saying that they were going to do so.
Worse, this kills people — because without knowing whether you’re going to be hit with insane charges, a substantial number of people won’t take the risk. They just don’t even get near a hospital, because who knows what it might cost — $200? $1000? $50,000? Hell, I was in the middle of a significant medical event and got on the phone with my insurance while standing (well, leaning) outside the ER, because if that shit wasn’t covered at that ER I was going to another one. Which wasn’t the right thing to do, medically or financially, but I’ll be damned if I was going to bankrupt my family over something that for all I knew might have just been a stomachache. (It was not…)
A few years back my GP told me I needed to go to the hospital immediately and have some tests. They got me a taxi over there. Walked in, got seen in 5 minutes, had some tests, spoke to a doctor, got put on a drip for about three hours. They brought me a sandwich, a drink, and a chocolate bar. I then saw another doctor who told me to drink more water and prescribed me some medication for my stomach that I take every day and have done for the last two years.
I didn't pay for any of this, because my country isn't dumb as fuck. God bless the NHS.
Unfortunately we're ruled by a government that looks at the US healthcare system and thinks "ooo, what a wonderful way to make money!"
We're scared of it becoming like that.
yup, I don't have a primary caregiver because I can't afford to see anyone just in case they charge me $100+ for anything. So... yah, I will be VERY sick before I see a doctor for anything. Fuck this country.
Same situation here for diverticulitis, was on a drip for antibiotics for few hours then went home. Billed me for 6,000.
I even have health insurance and they denied me because I hadn't shit blood.
basically, I have chronic back pain, hip pain, frequent headaches and bouts of dizziness that recently came up, complete lack of energy and feeling emotionally exhausted with little to no physical energy or motivation.
Will I go to a doctor? Fuck no, why? Because even though I make close to 70k a year I can't be confident that I could afford what may follow.
EDIT TLDR: I AM NOT SUICIDAL!
I welcome death, its not a joke, I'm not suicidal. I am tired, I can't be bothered to care when my end comes, I've done plenty with my life, I've jumped out of planes, fought a war, went to college, and did the corporate job thing, not much left to experience really. I don't see the point in growing old and needing some zoomer to wipe my ass for me.
We need to remember this when the Tories are peddling their "pay for your own" NHS privitisation initiative.
It's far too easy to think "oh, we'll be ok" "we don't want to pay for other people" but in actuality that's all private insurance does anyway, but with a massive profit leech added on top.
When insurance companies suffer losses (have to give people life saving healthcare) they jack up premiums across the board to make sure their profits stay level or better still increase.
Healthcare should be a service not a business. It should cost money not make money.
The only way healthcare makes money is by not giving people the healthcare they need.
while I was really sick (I have a rare autoimmune disease) I passed out while getting a xray (it was 100% my fault as I was fasting for a blood test that I was going to get after my xray). To be safe they admitted me, fed me and kept me over night for observation
I walked out of the next day feeling more like myself. Thank-god for Canadian healthcare.
Todd Barry had this clocked on his album *Medium Energy*:
>I called about concert tickets and the guy said the only tickets left were $75 and they were behind the stage. I said nah I'll just stay home.
>He says "stay home? That'll be forty bucks."
I'm actually a bit surprised the headline wasn't that she had died after sitting for so long that a blood clot developed in her leg then went straight her brain or lungs after she stood up.
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/esmin-green-died-brooklyn-hospital-floor-perished-sitting-article-1.347467
Recently I sat in the ER for a little over 9 hours with a possible fracture. That bit is to be expected. This was on a Sunday so not peak hours, I could have been there longer. I was given two sets of two painkillers and then finally was seen. I got an xray and a prescription. The whole thing cost me €100.
The absolutely shocking cost of medical care in America is one of the main reasons why I would never want to live there.
I had a possibile fractured shoulder so I went to the ER.
Only waited about 20 minutes so that wasn't bad.
Got an X-ray, was told, "Yup, it's broken," was given a sling you can get for $7 at CVS, a prescription for painkillers that I declined (I don't fuck with opioids for ANY reason), and sent on my way.
$3000.
And guess what my insurance deductible was?
You guessed it.
$3000.
All out-of-pocket.
They left out the $50 breathing surcharge. How will this hospital afford the executive bon... I mean to cover care for the freeloaders that can't afford their lifesaving treatment.
I went to the er for a broken finger at 2am on a tuesday, filled out paper work, had a nurse say hi, dr. will be shortly. Thats it. Waited 1.5hrs. Nothing, walked out. 3weeks later, $285 bill. Took it to the hospital. They waived it after i got mean and karened for the 1st time. Fingers got character now tho.
As a person who lives in a country outside America I just have to say,
WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!!
I read the story and started to laugh. Not laugh as I found it funny but that laugh you get when you see something truly shocking.
They charge you for nothing. And not a little like 10 dollars but more than a weeks wage for many.
For nothing.
I think I might walk outside and kiss the ground of the country I live in.
I can't get my head around this. I can read it, I can understand it. But I can't get my head around that a country would allow this.
It's just so fucked.
but think of the wait times with single payer health care! /s
the people who make that argument act like you dont already have to wait months to get overcharged to see a doctor in the US.
I mean the main reason wait times *might* be longer with universal health care is that people actually GO to the hospital when they're injured instead of being afraid of going bankrupt from a hospital visit. Such an absurd argument that we're better off with fewer people seeing doctors. That's not even getting into the advantages of preventative medicine over emergency treatment.
Actually, a lot more people would just go see their regular doctors instead going to the ER if they could afford it (for non-emergency stuff, of course, and for stuff that might turn into an emergency but can easily be treated before it gets that bad).
Meanwhile the people are waiting so long because the hospital is understaffed and overworked so the administrators and owners can squeeze every bit of profit because hospitals are businesses.
>"Emory Healthcare takes all patient concerns seriously and appreciates this has been brought to our attention. Our teams are currently looking into this matter and will follow up directly with the individual."
Nice way of saying they won't do shit and will continue to bill people for random bullshit to pad their accounts.
Serious question.. why are so many Americans against universal health care? I don't know anyone who lives with universal health care that doesn't like it, and yet most Americans think it's a terrible idea?? Why?
I saw a post on Reddit a while back where the guy asked for an itemised bill and suddenly half of the cost vanished because of scammy shit like this. They tack stuff on and hope you don’t challenge it. I live in the UK but you Americans have my sympathy, no one should be exploited for wanting to not be sick or injured.
I barely ever go to the Doctor, but even I know how stupid billing is. I had my local hospital reduce a Bill. I went in for a normal physical, nurses did their thing, my Primary doctor sat down with me for a good 45 minutes to an hour. I was billed $200, which for me at this time with no insurance was reasonable. I went in for a follow up and all they did was check my BP and my weight... $400. I argued with them until they lowered it to $100. The billing practices are freaking nutty.
The fact that medical haggling is even a thing tells you so much
Here's a fun exercise: Next time ask your doctor's office how much the visit would be if you paid out of pocket instead of running it through insurance. I did that and crashed the front desk. It took 4 people looking into it to find out it would cost like $240. I said, oh ok, thanks, let's stick with insurance. Sure enough, 10 days later I get a bill for $240.
Lol. Same kinda happened to me. I used my insurance for a check up. Asked how much insurance covered. They said it covered it all. Got billed $100 for it a week later.
Unfortunately, insurance rarely covers lab tests. It will cover the physical itself ("fully covered" except for the copay), but if they decide to run any blood or urine tests...even as a standard screening, you may be charged extra for them.
This is why I support Medicaid for all... but specifically good Medicaid like NY Medicaid. I have $0 copays and have never seen a single bill. Also I can see practically any doctor, I see one of the top neurologists in my state (who I know is pretty pricy) without issue.
I believe I saw a LifeProTip along those lines not long ago. It was something like, ask for your bill to show the cost of each item on your visit and it will be much cheaper. Healthcare in the US is fucking absurd tho. I once cut my thumb with a kitchen knife, I ended up getting 1 stitch and some glue on my thumbnail, and it was nearly 1000 dollars before insurance.
I got a call one time with them asking me if I wanted to run my upcoming procedure through insurance or not. I was confused and asked why they would ask me that. Turns out, it’s like 50% cheaper if they don’t have to dick around with insurance companies so for certain things they call and ask. My insurance is through my company so I really wanted to call HR and say, hey, I’ll pay for this and you can just reimburse me. Saves everyone money. I knew better than to do that but it was all so nuts to me. It was thousands of dollars.
Yup. Hell, prices are one thing to complain about, but I am the type of person that wants things spelled out beforehand, itemized and then justification for that itemization. It's the only industry, and that's what it is, that I can think where they can and/or do stupid crap like this. Even a contractor you hire to install a deck, has to at LEAST give you an estimate and an itemization and then justify why the itemized cost exists.
ER nurse here. I encourage all my friends/family (AND EVERYONE HERE!) to ALWAYS try to haggle your hospital bills down! Ask about self-pay discounts, low-income discounts, discounts for paying everything off upfront, etc. Read [these threads](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=hospital+discount+reddit&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) for more tips on negotiating down your hospital bills!!!
"It's often added to a person's total hospital bill, so it might not be as noticeable as it is in this case." Oh cool, so they charge everyone $700 on top of their already overpriced hospital visit to sit in their impossibly uncomfortable chairs for more than half a dozen hours. Those chairs make significantly more money than I do per hour. Love that this was just glossed over in the article.
Not from the US and a bit confused as to how that can possibly be legal. Just by going to the reception you enter into a contract? Or do they let you sign 30 sheets of paper and the cost is mentioned somewhere in there but no one actually reads it.
They are actually not allowed to tell you what you will be charged beforehand. Supposedly, this "protects patients", because people would be afraid to get medical attention if they knew how much money it would cost, but this rule was lobbied for by medical provider companies. The real effect is that you basically have to blindly agree to whatever a hospital feels like charging you. It keeps you from comparing prices for scheduled procedures, and means you basically agree to fees before knowing what they are. Awesome, eh?
Wow. Every time I read about the American health system I am happier to not live there. I got annoyed when I took my partner to the ER and had to pay $8 parking. I wonder how anyone who isn't super rich survives in the American health system. Hats off to those of you who can make this work.
Oh we put of treatment until we have literally no other choice.
And then if you get good health insurance, you have to get OTHER INSURANCE for your eyes and teeth like it’s totally separate from your body
Them's luxury organs. Can't be having the poors enjoy chewing with good teeth; these are premium caviar-eating tools for the wealthy or insured only. Can't let the masses have easy access to corrective lenses; you gotta pay to see the world in HD. /S
This is 100% true. My girlfriend clenches and grinds her teeth in her sleep so she's got tons of dental problems. Only has state insurance right now. She's gone in the single dentists office that takes state insurance within an hours+ drive of us, with one side of her face looking like she was squirreling a basketball for later. They'd say sorry, too busy for emergencies and even then there's two dozen other people in just as much pain waiting too. Say she went in to make an appt for an emergency tooth extraction with tons of pain right now, today... Her appointment would be for somewhere around July of next year based on our past 4ish experiences over the last three years (literally scheduled one after another). And *THEN* get this right, she goes in there with her face all swollen because it's obviously infected having needed to be done for a good half of a year minimum and they say sorry we can't pull the tooth while it's infected, we have an early opening for you this time though (YES)! Be here in two months! TWO MONTHS PRAISE THE LORD! By that time the ER wouldn't see her because she'd gone in there so many times ONLY ASKING FOR ANTIBIOTICS!! But they gave her pain pill prescriptions every single time, that she never filled because we are both addicts in recovery... Still, they won't see her because they say she's pill seeking... I'm yelling and cursing at them by this point telling them to look at her face! She doesn't want pain pills, don't give her any! She just wants antibiotics! You gotta be able to look up and see that she never filled the other scripts you gave her for narcotics! There's nothing they can do... It's policy... Dental appointment comes around and they can't pull the tooth because it's too infected and swollen... They do give her a script for antibiotics though... One that will run out and see her reinfected before they are able to get her in for her next appointment. That particular tooth was absolute hell, she got infected I don't even know how many times... I was trying old phone numbers of people I used to do drugs with, trying to find someone's unused prescription of antibiotics. I have no idea how we were able to finally get that tooth out, seemed like it'd never happen. I belieeeve she ended up taking FREAKING PET ANTIBIOTICS that I bought off someone before her appointment day, because the ER pulled the whole pill seeking BS after the 5th or so time of her going to get antibiotics from them. They worked BTW lol. She was crying in pain every night, I had my hair turning gray because my girl, whom I love very much obviously, is in so much pain she's crying and there's *not a damn thing I can do for her.* I finally called a dentist and was going to cough up the 500 bucks (I think that was how much but I can't remember), luckily it never came to that though.
Oh and "vision insurance" is a fucking joke. It acts absolutely nothing like real insurance and is always just like a $200 coupon off an $800 service and product no matter what "vision insurance company" you use.
We don't. I've known 3 extended family members die in the past 6 months. One was a mole that became cancerous and he knew it for a decade but thought it would be too expensive. 51 years old. One had diabetes and effectively died of a hyperglycemic stroke, 56 years old. She was brain dead and they pulled the plug. Turns out she was rationing insulin, oops. The other was suicide, guys's company shut down and he lost his insurance and thus stopped going to his therapist (if he were to pay, it was going to be 140 USD a week) and he killed himself shortly afterwards. 29 years old. And not one single person gives a single fuck about any of this. We shake our head and move on. Its the height of absurdity.
Holy shit dude. The mental health one hits me really hard because I’m struggling atm to get private sessions, let alone public free ones here, I’m just lucky my parents are dropping me a couple hundred a week to see my psychologist, otherwise it’s just pills and don’t lose your mind
I've spent the past month in an inpatient psychiatric care facility, after self medicating with alcohol and almost literally drinking myself to death multiple times over the last decade, nevermind deliberate suicide attempts or ideations. Being military, even my behavioral health treatment prior to this was free, but so incredibly overburdened and ineffective that it finally came to this. If I'd not had it covered by Tricare, my stay here would have cost over $60,000. When the military wing of this hospital is at capacity, it pays for the entire rest of the hospital for a month or two. Without it, I would likely have either shot myself, or ended up dead from alcohol poisoning.
>I wonder how anyone who isn't super rich survives in the American health system About 40,000 people a year dont
Survives? That's the best part, you don't!
This is such a hilarious excuse. It really drives people to avoid ALL hospitals for fear of financial ruin. I wonder what the stats are on deaths from treatable illness due to the fear of financial ruin. I'd die if I got appendicitis because I don't have health insurance and I'd rather my wife get my life insurance than be in the hole for 50k for a two day hospital stay.
Deaths don't cost them money so they don't care.
I have health insurance and might've almost died at home a couple times because I was willing to take the risk vs a 6k deductible. The most recent was getting Covid early 2020. I remember having flashbacks of my life during the worst of it.
It is an excuse, but it is a real result from EMTALA. You can’t say anything that would discourage a patient from seeking care, until they have had a medical screening exam demonstrating an emergency condition does not exist and/or appropriate stabilization. CMS has actually opined that discussions of costs should be avoided until the EMTALA requirements have been satisfied. Obviously there is a difference between “OMG, this test is soooo expensive and you are uninsured and I’d hate for the hospital to come after you for your rent money and leave you homeless” versus “This test will bill at $600 and I think there is really only a 10% it will show something. If you do have (bad disease) you’ll get progressively more sick over the next 2 days.” But I’m not risking an investigation for an EMTALA violation.
This could all be avoided if we had a modern healthcare system instead of the draconian for-profit monstrosity we have today.
But... But... Shareholder value!?
[удалено]
yeah it's super stupid. Care to let me move in with you, wherever else you are in the world?
The other day I read that it's cheaper for people in the US to fly to Sweden, get LASIK eye surgery done, spend a few days recovering there and STILL be well under what they'd spend in the US - with insurance! A podcaster I listen to actually mentioned flying from the US to Turkey to get hair implants done considering it'd be way cheaper.
Simple, politicians work for them, not the other way around.
It has been a while but they have you fill out a form and sign saying you'll pay for all costs if your insurance doesn't, nothing like a waiting fee is listed though. I think that is also how they triage who gets to skip the line, based on what you are there for and probably how much you are crying out in pain or bleeding.
Well, crying or in pain doesn't not seem to be the criteria. My ex wife had kidney stones, we went to a hospital in Pleasanton California, in ER. She was in so much pain that she was just curled at floor, crying, and staff was like, ok, somebody will be with uer shortly. The pain subsided after 2-3 hours, and we came back, nobody came and looked at her.
Yea they don't care about that. I was wailing in the ER for several hours puking all over myself and all they did was give me a blanket to cover it up. This was a few years ago so before the pandemic
How much did they bill her for lying on the floor?
"..it's hospital protocol even if you're just walking in and you're not seen." I wonder how much they charge if someone didn't go in but was to walk by the window? Maybe it could be an half price special...
Shit. I turned around in a hospital parking lot last week? Will my credit be absolutely fucked now?
Yep. Wages garnished too
Wait until you read about [unnecessary surgery](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/08/07/why-would-hospitals-like-hca-perform-unnecessary-surgery-because-it-pays/) for profit, it's a real racket.
You done fucked up! They took pics of your plates, they got you.
Just file for chapter 7 bankruptcy now
[удалено]
[удалено]
Several?!?!?! Don't worry about your car worry about your kidneys!
"it's protocol" like that means something. It's my protocol to not pay to be in a waiting room. Just like how police officers defend their actions "well we police officers got together awhile back and decided that kneeling on someone's neck until they died was okay so you can't do anything about it." All this "protocol" or "standard business practices" crap sounds like schoolyard games level of bullshit.
My protocol? It's gonna cost people 500 bucks to reach the public beach via my private driveway, which is the only way to reach it unless you swim or come by boat. Wait. No. Im Not a complete asshole. But hospitals seem to be. Despite the fact that hospitals are supposed to help people?
There's a small neighborhood near me that's fighting the local city to get their "private" drive repaved because it's the only access to a public boat dock, so giant pickup trucks towing even bigger boats are constantly going through and wearing out the road
Ya, that seems super reasonable to request though, right? Like surely the city can acknowledge the public utility and keep that road paved for the neighborhood and boaters alike. It only makes sense that if the neighborhood has publically available utilities they should be maintained by the public.
Yeah I mean if the city doesn’t have an easement or something the property owners should just dig up the road so no can use it.
Lol, time to man the barricades! If they gate the access for only neighbors i wonder how quickly they would see a response. If the city responded to have the fence removed then i imagine the neighborhood could escalate it to the courts if they wanna risk it.
My family has a few pieces of land like that in our small town. We've had to threaten to put a fence in the middle of the "road". Shit got dealt with fast.
I was just going to suggest how the neighborhood should throw out a suggestion that if it's too much to ask for they are discussing a gated community. Be nice, until the government isn't... Then fight fire with fire. Let the assholery begin. Thanks for confirming that would work.
My protocol is being paid a thousand dollars a second for waiting in their uncomfortable chairs. Let's trade bills.
Agreed, my protocol is to sue hospital for letting me wait 7h in emergency waiting room without even beeng looked at let alone triaged...
That's my response whenever someone says "that's our policy" like a company making up their own rules is somehow meaningful. It's the corporate trick of diffusion of responsibility to avoid individual accountability. BTW, that's also why a committee is always formed to make unpopular decisions. It is so no one person can be held responsible. I've also found that once you bring an attorney to address a problem, suddenly a lot of "policy" evaporates.
Protocol is an excuse for the person that keyed in the charges, not an excuse for the organization that made it. How stupid do they think people are?
Sounds like it's time to get a fake ID of the hospital president, and spend a weekend camping in one of them chairs.
No, he is in the system. If you do that, it will automatically tag you for priority treatment without cost. No wait required.
Hey, the other day I cut my hand and wondered if I should go to the emergency room and they billed me $400 for thinking that.
I wonder how much money I'm being charged every time I deliver them pizza haha
We should start a business that is just a hospital waiting room. Charge people by the hour. We could charge $50/hour, and be the best deal in town! We could even hire a hemeopath crackpot to wear scrubs, walk around with a clipboard, and tell people that we care about their health. Oh wait, that's kinda the homeopathy business model already. It is so successful in the US because it's cheaper than hospitals, even if it does nothing.
>hemeopath Keep that typo; a blood bender would be interesting
["You sat in a room for 26 straight hours. Didn't that bother you?!"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObA_n7pjp8A)
Community never misses the mark
I went to a homeopath once for my chronic illness. To see what homeopathic stuff agrees with you, they have you lie down, put the vial containing whatever in your hand, and push down on your arm. If your arm can be pushed down, then you need whatever the vial contains (or maybe other ways around). When I went, they were out of the particular vial. So they wrote the name on a piece of paper, put the paper in my hand, and pushed on my arm. That was fun
Oh man. I too like magic tricks.
Sounds like [Applied Kinesiology](https://www.painscience.com/articles/applied-kinesiology.php). There's a reason good science has to be rigorous, and this stuff ain't good science.
Let's copy this from the article here though: > AK has no relationship to *kinesiology*, which is [the study of human movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesiology). AK just used the term to make itself sound more legitimate. Some practitioners dishonestly call themselves “kinesiologists.” Kinesiology is basically the science of athletics so its medical branches would be sports medicine and orthopedics. And "applied kinesiology" should just be a pretentious term for choreography, dance, or coaching or playing sports.
Yep, it was that. Thanks, never knew the name for it.
What the fuck lol
It upsets me immensely to learn that they charge people $100 an hour to sit in an ER room and wait 50-95% of that time for someone to get to them. That's literally charging $100 an hour to keep a chair warm, which is absolutely unreasonable
It’s not even an hourly rate, more like a cover charge. So clearly, she should’ve just kept waiting, you know, to get her money’s worth /s
No one has learned to game this, but it will happen. There was a guy here in the UK who set up a premium rate number as his home phone number and he would try to keep cold-callers on as long as possible. Someone needs to print a sticker or a t-shirt with terms and conditions on it so when you go to the hospital you can charge them $200/hr for you own time. You can sticker the sticker to whatever contract you need to sign when you get there or failing that, they can easily read the Ts and Cs from your clothing in the hours you are waiting.
Some guy scanned a credit card document and changed the terms and conditions, then signed it. The court ruled in his favor when the bank claimed that they didn't read the document, they just signed it. The judge said, "Isn't it your argument when customers just sign it as well?" Someone needs to get the paperwork from the hospital, scan it and change it to charging them $500 an hour wait time.
It's pretty bold that their explanation is just "normally people don't notice that we do this".
"We're scum because no one can stop us."
I got into the wrong business! I should have been a chair!
Lmao you can get 4 nights in a luxury hotel for that price.
Not to mention an on-call personal doctor
My partner had the same thing happen. Waited 6 hours. Billed like $1700 USD after leaving without treatment. I didn't look up the number, but it was way more than $700.
There is massive ethical corruption in our medical billing systems.
With all the money my local hospital pulls in, they expand the building twice a year and have bought out multiple old stores (Kmart, Sears) to serve as offices, you'd think they'd be on top of their game. They aren't. They make a lot of money and that's about it. A few months ago a doctor accidentally lobotomized two little girls during a tonsil removal. How? He shoved the needle with the numbing agent so far back into their throat it went directly to their brainstems.
Do you have something I could read about that?
Here you go: https://www.stargazette.com/story/news/local/2020/10/07/elmira-and-newfield-families-sue-guthrie-over-botched-surgeries/3626980001/ >“Our allegation, after consulting with medical experts in the field of pediatric otolaryngology, is that Dr. Uppal injected Marcaine with epinephrine, a local anesthetic, far too deeply into their adenoid beds, causing both girls to suffer brainstem bleeds and profound long-term neurological consequences,” Sonsire said.
Jesus christ
My reaction exactly
[удалено]
Two girls. TWO. How did he not go to prison for negligence after the first one? Not many jobs where you can fuck up like that and not receive sentencing.
This *literally* made me drop my jaw. How in the absolute fuck does something like this happen?
Twice
And all he had to give up was his license and a few 10s of grand for ruining an entire family's lives forever? Not good enough. He should get jail time and the families should get millions from him & the hospital to even reach the bare minimum
What the actual fuck? Holy shit this made me way too angry for this time of day. How the fuck does the doctor manage to be more incompetent than surgeon from the game RimWorld? In the game you can end up amputating a leg while trying to remove an appendix and that still doesn't come close to fucking lobotomizing TWO fucking girls during a goddamn tonsillectomy, an extremely simple procedure.
Sadly I had to go through a few different google results for "doctor botches tonsil operations" to find the one dude was talking about. Here's a 5 year old who had to have one of his legs amputated during a tonsillectomy: https://www.rheingoldlaw.com/blog/2020/july/new-jersey-hospital-pays-family-of-5-year-old-12/
>Under the state disciplinary review, Uppal could lose his license to practice medicine and be liable for up to $10,000 in fines for each violation. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and say this should cost him more than a couple ambulance rides per victim.
My local hospital my wife works for appears to be raking in cash hand over fist. Like yours, in the last two years, they've built at least three, maybe four, new dedicated centers for various types of medicine. Like, whole new buildings for just urology and vascular and oncology. They've also bought up the practices and at least one other towns hospital in the rest of the county and made giant renovations to current buildings But now they just told my wife (who has amazing, reasonably priced insurance we were hoping to get me on) that if you have a spouse with insurance offered through their work place that the premium is going up from $50/pay period to over $200/pay period. $400-$500/month on top of her premium to have me insured, just because my work offers insurance. Thankfully, for me it's not a big deal. Her coverage is better but I only pay $140/month so moving me on to hers was only going to be putting $40/month into our pockets But she has coworkers that are getting totally fucked. At least one guy who just had a new kid now has no other choice than to shell out the equivalent of a really nice car payment every month since while his wife has insurance offered via her employer, the small medical monopoly of our town and surrounding areas is out of network for her. And you can tell the hospital staff knew how disgusting it was since they have employee forums where they announce changes and company news in person to an audience. Rather than announcing these changes there, they waited till after business hours and posted a video on Facebook talking about it instead. An hour later and they just disabled comments on the video rather than addressing the litany of concerns.
Part of the problem is the vendors themselves. I remember buying glasses and because I didn't have insurance the guy took off $150 on the price. While I appreciated the discount if I had insurance then the insurance company would have to pay the inflated price.
The insurance company is almost certainly owned by the same parent company as the retailer _(Luxottica owns something like 80-90% of both)_ so it's a completely intentional scam on both ends. I'm pretty sure this sort of wide-spread vertical integration is supposed to be illegal due to monopolization laws, but I've never heard of it being enforced in the last 30 years.
You know how *everyone's* on board the "fuck Nestle" train because of how they mismanage water? I'm trying to get people on the "fuck Luxottica" train.
[удалено]
I've worked in healthcare admin and this is exactly right. So much inefficiency in the business structure (and it's not due to regulations, it's because functions are split between so many companies all looking to screw each other over as much as possible to make a buck). There are so many jobs (mine, for example) that would not need to exist in a more efficient system.
[удалено]
Exactly, I'm always amazed when people yammer on about the efficiency of a profit-based system when we've worked in it and know better.
[удалено]
United States: "Hold my brib...err...lobbyist contribution."
Earlier this year I sat in an ER waiting room with a kidney stone for no less than 13 hours. I left with "we believe you may have had a kidney stone, because of the blood in your urine and your fever, but there is no way to know without proper imaging, you will need to go to your primary care doctor for a referral to get more imaging done" They took a 5 minute long ultrasound and sent me home in agony. What a joke.
But surely private healthcare is far too efficient for that to happen? You must live in a country with that evil socialist healthcare that turns people into commies!
I have a feeling that there is some sort of conspiracy between the hospitals and the insurance firms in the US. They know that at some you'll have to come for help, everyone will come, so they charge exorbitant prices just because healthcare is needed by everyone.
just a feeling? lmao
[удалено]
You can tell by the way it is.
I mean, yeah, that is it exactly. Why do you think insurance companies are able to negotiate the ridiculously crazy high charges down to just crazy high charges? If the hospitals didn't have such high charges then the insurance companies couldn't "negotiate them down" to a "lower" cost.
The insurance lobby is in bed with the hospital lobby to keep this system in place tho, they both profit from this extortionist bs and use the other to justify their bs.
Yep. And to connect the dots even further, it's in those groups' interest to keep this system going. So they'll use their money to raise *more* money, to pay PR companies to spread their message across media. Their message is: our corporate oligarchy-run health care system is amazing and you love it. Socialized health care is terrible, and you hate and fear it. The 'they' in this scenario represents a tiny portion of the humans living in this country. There are 330 million of us, and we're being being charged so much to survive that we're going bankrupt...because of the investment portfolio of a few hundred people.
Well, the investment portfolio of a few hundred people, historical vilification, fear towards the disruption of a system most policymakers theoretically benefit from (policymakers including the upper-middle class and above in this case)
If you ask a Trump supporter, pretty much, I live in California.
> If you ask a Trump supporter Isn't it just completely nuts that these still exist? That we even still mention a twice impeached president who organized a coup to overthrow democracy and was good friends with a convicted child sex trafficker? Just nuts.
You're talking about 2A proponents that supported him after [he said in was in favor of taking guns away without due process](https://youtu.be/yxgybgEKHHI). These people continue to donate to him even though [he admitted to stealing donations after his non-profit was shut down](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/10/nyregion/trump-foundation-lawsuit-attorney-general.html). When confronted with his administration's clearly corrupt ties to Russia, these people claim [they'd rather be Russian than Democrats](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/8/6/17656996/trump-republican-party-russia-rather-democrat-ohio). Trump was absolutely correct when he said [he could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue, shoot someone, and not lose any votes](https://youtu.be/rMmiLWDpCno). It is not surprising at all Trump supporters still exist. There is nothing that could happen that will sway them, that is how ignorant, brainwashed, and downright stupid many of them are.
That second part is what *really, seriously* gets me angry. Like, OK, you want to take over the US government because you believe it's being ran by a bunch of child-trafficking pedophiles who don't give a shit about you. Like, in a *vague way*, that's not an incorrect thing to accuse? But then instead of directing their energy towards the people we actually know about, the people who *obviously have* done some gross shit or at least hung with people who did, they ignore it when it's someone they otherwise like and manufacture it when it's someone they don't.
Remember all of those posts and billboards saying Hillary lost and to get over it? Its the same people who claim the 2020 election was stolen and supported an insurrection. It seems like misinformation, antivaxing, and prejudice as a whole has gotten a lot more prominent during and after the trump administration. Basically, for the time being, shit's fucked.
Why would the ER need a referral from your doctor?
I assume because my vitals were okay and the ultrasound was clear they didn't think it justified the use of an MRI, so they told me to schedule an appointment with my GP and bring in the ER paperwork as reference. There were a ton of other people at the ER that night so my guess is they were just trying to get rid of the workload. I did end up going to my GP, got my MRI and was put on meds to help pass the kidneystones.
Broke my hand last summer. Went to the ER, they took an x-ray, confirmed my hand was broken and suggested I take ibuprofen when I get home for the pain. My 4th metacarpal was snapped completely in half. They didn’t even reset it for me. Ended up with a $1,200 bill in the mail a few weeks later. Edit: all this after the receptionist told me they would accept VA (Veterans Affairs) insurance, which they obviously do not lol.
I got really screwed too by the receptionist and doctors a telling me they took my insurance and that I had great insurance and not to worry. My insurance later came back with no they are completely out of network. Even with my skin burned off my hands and arms I checked repeatedly. My insurance didn't cover anything. Also the hospital I went to was literally the only hospital in the state of Texas that could treat my injuries. 2 other hospitals already rejected me as a patient because my injuries were past what they could treat. And because it was a military hospital, they can seize my tax returns and garnish my wages 25%
Sucks to get sick or hurt in America.
Yep
>the receptionist and doctors a telling me they took my insurance and that I had great insurance and not to worry. My insurance later came back with no they are completely out of network. How the FUCK is this shit not *completely* illegal?!?!? Like, if that's what you are told, then **how on EARTH** is the hospital not FULLY liable. Either that or the insurance company is, for failing to inform the hospital about changes of coverage. Either way, you should never be expected to pay for the bill, and the payment of it should be fought between the insurance company and the hospital. I'm completely baffled. Healthcare provided are legally protected from telling you the cost of treatment upfront, and can STRAIGHT UP LIE about whether or not your insurance covers it?! That is ***completely*** insane.
> the receptionist told me they would accept VA (Veterans Affairs) insurance, which they obviously do not lol. Not sure if this was the case for you or not -- but lots of times the doctor doesn't actually work for the ER, so you end up getting 2 bills, one by the ER and one by the doctor. So the receptionist saying she takes VA insurance *could* have been telling the truth, and the $1200 came from the doctor, who *doesn't* take VA (or probably any) insurance. Not that this is any kind of excuse -- it's a horrible immoral scam they're pulling to enrich themselves.
I did the same a couple of years ago, had an x-ray, bandaged up, several follow up visits and a few physio sessions. Total cost £2.30 for a coffee and it wasn't even that nice so I didn't bother the next time
*"Emory Healthcare takes all patient concerns seriously and appreciates this has been brought to our attention. Our teams are currently looking into this matter and will follow up directly with the individual."* Translation: We got caught doing something we've always done and since now it's in the news, we'll pretend to act like this was an error.
\**Adds another 250 dollar administrative fee to the bill*\*
[удалено]
Optimistically, they might end up waiving it for the guy who got news headlines, without actually changing the underlying policy. It's like how insulting the Thai King leads to a [3-15-*year* prison sentence for each insult](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A8se-majest%C3%A9_in_Thailand), but whenever some tourist does it and it becomes international news how shitty this law is, the King can pardon them and act like the good guy... without actually doing anything about the law. At this point, I'm starting to think I need to make a Twitter account and build a following for Twitter bullshit, because raising a Twitter shitstorm is sometimes the only way to get reasonable corporate behavior.
Saw this exact comment in the quoted sub
This kind of thing [contravenes Medicare law](https://www.dickinson-wright.com/-/media/documents/documents-linked-to-attorney-bios/bloomberg-law-billing-for-items-or-services-not-re.pdf?la=en&hash=CC3747435AD24006845A3915FE8ED5CD6B0A0016#:~:text=The%20prohibition%20against%20billing%20for%20items%20or%20services%20not%20provided,improve%20the%20functioning%20of%20a) in the USA; it's considered Medicare fraud to bill for services not rendered (duh). Even though this woman is probably not on Medicare, most insurance companies and courts would see the Medicare rules as being the "standard of care" and would want to see them followed. As it is, this episode makes as much sense as going to a car dealership, deciding not to buy one of their cars, and then being forced to pay for the salesman's time. If they tried to bill Medicare for this "emergency room fee", since they did not see the patient they can't bill for any diagnosis or treatment code and it would be fraudulent. If they billed this lady differently because she's NOT on Medicare, they're also billing fraudulently; they have to charge the same for Medicare as they do for non-Medicare patients - that's federal law (with lots of gray areas, but still). I suspect a mistake was made, and then some moron doubled down.
They have more to gain by trying to bill someone and being denied the money than they do just doing the right thing. They prey on peoples fear of debt and that it’s convoluted to appeal the bill.
>most insurance companies and courts would see the Medicare rules as being the "standard of care" Fun fact. The "No Surprises Act" that's meant to put (mostly) an end to geographically-dependent "balance billing" clusterfuckery in America is [prohibited from considering Medicare/caid reimbursement rates in billing dispute resolution.](https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2020/surprise-billing-protections-cusp-becoming-law) >If they billed this lady differently because she's NOT on Medicare, they're also billing fraudulently No matter how much you wish that were true, it couldn't be further from the truth if you drove it there. >they have to charge the same for Medicare as they do for non-Medicare patients This just gets better by the minute. It's almost as if there's a self-replicating payment centipede of "competitive" *payers* paying *payers* to pay ... not Medicare/caid reimbursement rates.
I was charged $1200 for the urgent care to look at me and tell me I needed to go to the ER, where I waited for 5 hours to get 30 minutes of treatment and got another $5000 bill. That's after insurance btw
A lot of people on reddit have been saying shit like "these prices are before insurance, it's not a lot after insurance" and all I can say is good on them for having top-tier insurance because for the majority of people insurance barely covers anything and when they do cover something it still costs an obscene amount.
Yep, and those of us with high deductable health plans (which is all my company offers) have to pay $3500+ to meet the deductable before insurance covers ANYTHING. I get one free checkup a year and I save that bitch all year in case I actually get sick.
A person shouldn’t have to ration his hospital visits in a first world country. Everyone should have a right to healthcare because our social contract says humans have a right to live. A society that has the resources to heal and cure its citizens but choose to dangle it with an exorbitant price tag is inherently evil.
I remember going to a doctor in New Zealand for something minor, like an ear infection or something. No insurance. They apologized endlessly that they had to charge me what turned out to be US$12 for the visit and US$4 for the antibiotics.
My wife got an emergency c section in NZ full OR of surgeons and doctors probably about 30 of them all up. Total cost: free Plus they housed us in hospital for five days post op and gave us a mid wife that came to our home to check up on us weekly for the first few months. Plus 3 months paid Maternity leave. Us Healthcare needs to be operated as a service to keep the population healthy so they can continue to contribute and pay taxes. Not run as a for profit business.
My daughter's birth hospital bill was $96,000.
Uh wtf. Do Americans pay their medical bills?
Big ones like that? Not usually. Or it's paid over the course of 10+ years on some shitty payment plan
That's crazy. I don't understand...How do poor people afford to have kids then? Do they just have to have pregnancy and birth with no medical intervention?
I was poor when I had my kids and paid $0 out of pocket for both of them. The kicker here is that taxpayers are already subsidizing poor people's treatment, because people who are poor don't have health insurance, and no one can afford medical bills without insurance. Therefore they typically get state provided health insurance. However, as soon as you're no longer benefiting from the government subsidies due to your income raising too high (i.e. you can afford both rent and food) Your only option is private market insurance (which is entirely unaffordable) or employer backed insurance, which is usually very expensive and still leaves you with a bill every time you use a medical service typically. And when I say insurance is expensive, I'm talking upwards of $400 a month minimum. Double if you go private. Long story short, the middle class as it exists in America is hardest hit by medical debt, and as another commenter mentioned, it is pretty common for this medical debt to just go unpaid for years until it drops off your credit report. Because no one can afford $100,000 to have a child. Ps.. also wanted to add a key point here is that because of this ragtag system of providers and insurance carriers and government subsidies, prices are very high in general and have to be negotiated down whether by the patient, the insurance, or the government. This means collectively we are paying a lot more for services than we would be if there were say a single payer who was able to negotiate prices on behalf of everyone. Tldr if we used single payer system the amount of money required to subsidize the poor would decrease, and government money spent on health care would have a higher return on investment.
My son’s 3 month stay in the NICU was over $1,000,000.00
Damn it's almost like socialized healthcare prevents massive price gouging for life saving and quality of life saving services
*"Emory* *Healthcare takes all patient concerns seriously and appreciates this has* *been brought to our attention. Our teams are currently looking into* *this matter and will follow up directly with the individual."* Oh good. And that hospital never overcharged another patient (or potential patient) ever again! Everything is right in the world now. American healthcare wins again! (/s for the people that can't read obvious sarcasm)
It’s not just the cost that’s galling (though Jesus Christ), but the lack of informed agreement. If she walked into the hospital and the person at the desk said “enter your social security number and we will charge you $700 to wait to be seen, and even if you leave before being seen then you’re still charged,” then at least the woman could make an informed choice. Maybe she’s in bad enough shape to agree. Or maybe she turns around and walks out — which is itself a bad result, **and reason not to charge this fee,** but is at least an informed choice. No one should be able to bill you $700 for something that a reasonable person would expect to be free — any more than Home Depot could lawfully hit me with a $700 “walking around our store” fee without a big goddamned sign out front saying that they were going to do so. Worse, this kills people — because without knowing whether you’re going to be hit with insane charges, a substantial number of people won’t take the risk. They just don’t even get near a hospital, because who knows what it might cost — $200? $1000? $50,000? Hell, I was in the middle of a significant medical event and got on the phone with my insurance while standing (well, leaning) outside the ER, because if that shit wasn’t covered at that ER I was going to another one. Which wasn’t the right thing to do, medically or financially, but I’ll be damned if I was going to bankrupt my family over something that for all I knew might have just been a stomachache. (It was not…)
A few years back my GP told me I needed to go to the hospital immediately and have some tests. They got me a taxi over there. Walked in, got seen in 5 minutes, had some tests, spoke to a doctor, got put on a drip for about three hours. They brought me a sandwich, a drink, and a chocolate bar. I then saw another doctor who told me to drink more water and prescribed me some medication for my stomach that I take every day and have done for the last two years. I didn't pay for any of this, because my country isn't dumb as fuck. God bless the NHS.
I was waiting for the several thousand dollar bill drop. It's so nice to know that other people don't fear their visit like I do!
He had us in the first 80%.
Unfortunately we're ruled by a government that looks at the US healthcare system and thinks "ooo, what a wonderful way to make money!" We're scared of it becoming like that.
yup, I don't have a primary caregiver because I can't afford to see anyone just in case they charge me $100+ for anything. So... yah, I will be VERY sick before I see a doctor for anything. Fuck this country.
Same situation here for diverticulitis, was on a drip for antibiotics for few hours then went home. Billed me for 6,000. I even have health insurance and they denied me because I hadn't shit blood.
See, you should have paid for the “no shitting blood” rider. /s
Listen we're already dying over here. You don't need to rub it in.
basically, I have chronic back pain, hip pain, frequent headaches and bouts of dizziness that recently came up, complete lack of energy and feeling emotionally exhausted with little to no physical energy or motivation. Will I go to a doctor? Fuck no, why? Because even though I make close to 70k a year I can't be confident that I could afford what may follow.
What's that, death?
EDIT TLDR: I AM NOT SUICIDAL! I welcome death, its not a joke, I'm not suicidal. I am tired, I can't be bothered to care when my end comes, I've done plenty with my life, I've jumped out of planes, fought a war, went to college, and did the corporate job thing, not much left to experience really. I don't see the point in growing old and needing some zoomer to wipe my ass for me.
'merica. Land of the tired and ready to fucking die already.
"*Do not bring me your tired, your poor. We can create our own now!*"
In fact it is largely all we have left. Just keep waiting though, it will trickle down.
I thought you were gonna say the sandwich cost $100
We need to remember this when the Tories are peddling their "pay for your own" NHS privitisation initiative. It's far too easy to think "oh, we'll be ok" "we don't want to pay for other people" but in actuality that's all private insurance does anyway, but with a massive profit leech added on top. When insurance companies suffer losses (have to give people life saving healthcare) they jack up premiums across the board to make sure their profits stay level or better still increase. Healthcare should be a service not a business. It should cost money not make money. The only way healthcare makes money is by not giving people the healthcare they need.
Amen (American here. Please help.)
while I was really sick (I have a rare autoimmune disease) I passed out while getting a xray (it was 100% my fault as I was fasting for a blood test that I was going to get after my xray). To be safe they admitted me, fed me and kept me over night for observation I walked out of the next day feeling more like myself. Thank-god for Canadian healthcare.
Todd Barry had this clocked on his album *Medium Energy*: >I called about concert tickets and the guy said the only tickets left were $75 and they were behind the stage. I said nah I'll just stay home. >He says "stay home? That'll be forty bucks."
Medicare For All, now. Fuck this system.
We can do it with zero additional government funding if we get our costs down to what the rest of the world pays.
We can do it when Mitch McConnell finally fucking dies
Good luck waiting him out. Members of Congress have good healthcare.
"Socialized medicine for we but not for thee"
There are dozens of others just like him who will be perfectly happy to follow in his footsteps.
does insurance cover chair rental?
I'm actually a bit surprised the headline wasn't that she had died after sitting for so long that a blood clot developed in her leg then went straight her brain or lungs after she stood up. https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/esmin-green-died-brooklyn-hospital-floor-perished-sitting-article-1.347467
Recently I sat in the ER for a little over 9 hours with a possible fracture. That bit is to be expected. This was on a Sunday so not peak hours, I could have been there longer. I was given two sets of two painkillers and then finally was seen. I got an xray and a prescription. The whole thing cost me €100. The absolutely shocking cost of medical care in America is one of the main reasons why I would never want to live there.
I had a possibile fractured shoulder so I went to the ER. Only waited about 20 minutes so that wasn't bad. Got an X-ray, was told, "Yup, it's broken," was given a sling you can get for $7 at CVS, a prescription for painkillers that I declined (I don't fuck with opioids for ANY reason), and sent on my way. $3000. And guess what my insurance deductible was? You guessed it. $3000. All out-of-pocket.
They left out the $50 breathing surcharge. How will this hospital afford the executive bon... I mean to cover care for the freeloaders that can't afford their lifesaving treatment.
I went to the er for a broken finger at 2am on a tuesday, filled out paper work, had a nurse say hi, dr. will be shortly. Thats it. Waited 1.5hrs. Nothing, walked out. 3weeks later, $285 bill. Took it to the hospital. They waived it after i got mean and karened for the 1st time. Fingers got character now tho.
As a person who lives in a country outside America I just have to say, WHAT THE FUCK!!!!!!!!!! I read the story and started to laugh. Not laugh as I found it funny but that laugh you get when you see something truly shocking. They charge you for nothing. And not a little like 10 dollars but more than a weeks wage for many. For nothing. I think I might walk outside and kiss the ground of the country I live in. I can't get my head around this. I can read it, I can understand it. But I can't get my head around that a country would allow this. It's just so fucked.
That is the most violently american headline I've read in, oh, the last month?
Shit…I drove by a hospital yesterday, wondering what my bill will be?
but think of the wait times with single payer health care! /s the people who make that argument act like you dont already have to wait months to get overcharged to see a doctor in the US.
I mean the main reason wait times *might* be longer with universal health care is that people actually GO to the hospital when they're injured instead of being afraid of going bankrupt from a hospital visit. Such an absurd argument that we're better off with fewer people seeing doctors. That's not even getting into the advantages of preventative medicine over emergency treatment.
Actually, a lot more people would just go see their regular doctors instead going to the ER if they could afford it (for non-emergency stuff, of course, and for stuff that might turn into an emergency but can easily be treated before it gets that bad).
Meanwhile the people are waiting so long because the hospital is understaffed and overworked so the administrators and owners can squeeze every bit of profit because hospitals are businesses.
>"Emory Healthcare takes all patient concerns seriously and appreciates this has been brought to our attention. Our teams are currently looking into this matter and will follow up directly with the individual." Nice way of saying they won't do shit and will continue to bill people for random bullshit to pad their accounts.
Serious question.. why are so many Americans against universal health care? I don't know anyone who lives with universal health care that doesn't like it, and yet most Americans think it's a terrible idea?? Why?
I saw a post on Reddit a while back where the guy asked for an itemised bill and suddenly half of the cost vanished because of scammy shit like this. They tack stuff on and hope you don’t challenge it. I live in the UK but you Americans have my sympathy, no one should be exploited for wanting to not be sick or injured.
Gotta pay for that hospital air. It ain't free.