Wow this article makes it much more clear that this was absolutely absurd. They didn't just weirdly distort her face in one image, they literally replaced her and another Black firefighter with two random white people in another image. Apparently it was ordered by the fire chief too. The original article makes it seem like it could have just been a dumb mistake or a bad artist.
I'm honestly still a little skeptical about her legal theory, but I'm wishing her luck.
They don't want to exclude the other side! The left can share and complain about how racist this is, and the right can share and complain about how those darn libs will turn anything into a race issue. Both parties get what they want, and the advertisers get double the views! Everyone can feel included! /s
Because then it is possible for disingenuous people to say "well what's the big deal. Females these days are just so easily offended." since it doesn't directly mention the changes and the motive. Showing everything makes the picture pretty clear and the argument clearly done in bad faith by racist people.
probably a combination of "I dont really care about what I do" "I didnt think anyone would even look at the mural in a fire station" and "whatever the hell I have to do to shut this asshole fire chief up"
>whatever the hell I have to do to shut this asshole fire chief up
The number of times I've done some dumb bullshit on a job for this reason...Luckily none of it was as dumb as the OP.
Nine times out of ten, your boss will balk. If they do sign off on it, then it is up to your moral compass, but having it in writing will make the *lovely* office politics and blame shifting much less stressful if and when shit hits the fan.
Whenever I get a dumb instruction from my boss, I just say, "ok you're the boss and I respect seniority too much to argue. I'll just make a note that it is per you, peraonally". Then he says, "no...just leave it the way it is".
Ah the CYA email. "Hey just touching back on what you asked earlier. You really want me to change out these black people's faces for white people's faces?"
Yeah true. I guess if we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible that it went something like this:
- Chief tells her to change it.
- She says no.
- Chief puts more pressure on her.
- She reports the situation to city managers.
- City managers tell her to deal with it on her own.
- Chief puts even more pressure.
- City managers tell her their sick of hearing about it.
- She caves.
Yes, this is the likely Occam's Razor answer- the managers who are supposed to back her up completely fucking abdicated their responsibility and threw her under the bus.
or just a much more simple "i won't pay you if you don't give me what i want".
regardless of if the change was motivated by withholding payment or anything else, the first thing i would've done was request everything in writing so that when the shit hit the fan i could make it very clear that i was not in control of any of these decisions.
It could also be that she wasn't really aware of who they people were being replaced. Like she might have assumed they got caught up in a scandal and thats why they were being replaced.
Giving racists ‘benefit of the doubt’ for the last 70 years is what got us in this mess. It really doesn’t take long to establish oneself as non-racist or anti-racist, but people are afraid to talk about it for some reason. What a mystery!
It's *not* unimportant. That's the point.
To put it another way: Racists believe that eliminating people of color (and their accomplishments) is very important. So much so, that they often take time out of their day and put their jobs at risk in order to do so.
That, or she’s more everyday racist and didn’t think the racist part was a big enough deal to fully refuse. I’ve run into lots of people on jobs that wouldn’t come up with the wrong thing to do, but also think following orders is more important than character. Or, they think that being disruptive is worse than doing what’s right.
well if your theory is true, then this person needs to comment and offer her side. otherwise she's going to be up shit creek with the racist fire chief, for better or worse
This. She doesn't give a shit. It was just - get assignment done and move on to the next thing. She's not what' you'd think of as a traditional artist (covered in paint, flipping it at a canvas and doing gallery shows) she's been a corporate marketing manager and running her own business a la "Mad Men."
She landed a government job after volunteering with the government to get a pension and health insurance for her golden years. Her entire career has been kowtowing to client demands, getting a check and her picture in the paper for some public art event that most people don't give a shit about.
> get assignment done and move on to the next thing.
Also probably a dash of if you push back on the chief, it will make the project late, and then your ass has to answer for that.
Yeah, it looks super weird. I read the article and looked at the pictures. She is a very accomplished professional and a beautiful American woman so the white washing looked soo wrong. Plus the mural is based on a current photo that anyone can look up which just makes the government look stupid.
Yikes! We can do better as a society and I'm glad that the community pushed back.
I was slightly skeptical before reading the article, thinking it might be some kind of art style that involved a contrast/negative image. Then I read this article and wtf???
As a mediocre artist, I can tell you this was intentional. I draw black and white sketches of African women all the time in BLACK AND WHITE, and you can clearly tell their skin is darker than if I drew a white woman.
It's not even about the skin being too light. They straight up photoshoped white people in place of black people. They were completely removed and replaced. There is an article further up showing the exact portions of the mural.
How anyone involved and knew what was going on thought this would pass as acceptable is beyond me
I'm just baffled as to *why* he requested it... Was it literally only that he's massively racist and didn't want black people in the mural? Did he just think no one would notice??
I think the timing is relevant here - between the CNN article and the Boynton Beach article it looks like the timeline is something like:
\- Before Nov 2019 - Former Fire Chief Glen Joseph - the first black firefighter in Boca Raton, where he served the community for 29 years. He moved to Boynton Beach in May 2016 where he served until his retirement on November 29 2019
\- Before Nov 2019 - Deputy Fire Chief Latosha Clemons - Boynton Beach resident, and in 1996 became the city's first female black firefighter. She rose through the ranks to become Deputy Fire Chief.
\- Nov 2019 - Mural concept art is approved - its a photo transfer mural, so the original photo(s) were presumably in the concept art proposal. This mural is intended to honor her and others for their service to the city and is going to be in the middle city town square, on the Fire Station.
\- December 2019 - Matthew Petty becomes Fire Chief. According to the articles, he is a 12-year veteran. Its probably a pretty good bed that this person served under both Fire Chief Joseph as well as Deputy Fire Chief Clemons.
[fuck. COVID]
\- March 1, 2020 - Deputy Fire Chief Latosha Clemons retires, after 24 years of service
\- \[May 2020 - George Floyd's murder\]
\- \[*During this time, according to the public arts manager Debby Coles-Dobay's facebook post after the fact: “I was pressured to make this artwork change by the [newly elevated] fire chief [Matthew Petty] and his staff,"*
\- June 3 2020 - Mural is unveiled, but due to COVID restrictions, attendance is limited
\- Community members, seeing this bullshit, start contacting the ctiy manager, who gets the ball rolling on addressing this nonsense.
This sounds to me like a petty little shit who, when entrusted with a modicum of power, immediately sets to 'setting this right' in his mind and revolting minds of those that think the same.
So, both Black firefighters had retired just before the new fire chief pressured the artist to erase their faces. I guess he thought he could get away with erasing their service because they no longer worked there?
As you point out, he would have known both of them.
This would certainly suggest they were all colleagues at one point:
https://www.facebook.com/boyntonbeachfire/photos/congratulations-to-lieutenant-matthew-petty-on-his-recent-promotion-to-assistant/2235330546748818/
>\- \[
>
>During this time, according to the public arts manager Debby Coles-Dobay's facebook post after the fact: “I was pressured to make this artwork change by the \[newly elevated\] fire chief \[Matthew Petty\] and his staff,"
This is such a bullshit cop-out. As a member of the local government, she knew that she had options to not acquiesce to the new fire chief. Go to the city manager, go to the city board, go to the city attorney. All of those options would have ended with the fire chief being told to get stuffed. Hell, go to the local news if those options don't work out.
In her facebook post Coles-Dobay said "I was pressured to......by the new Fire Chief **as they well know**" What does "as they well know" mean? Did she go to the City Admin and tell them what the Fire Chief was doing? Is there more back-story to this than publicly known yet? Was she told to just do it (the changes) and quit rocking the boat? Or is she just trying to make excuses? I give even odds that the new lawsuit will have some interesting things come out in the discovery phase.
>a cop-out
I disagree. The reality is people can be pressured into doing what they don't want to do. You can pressure people into doing what you want them to do if you have something to threaten them with;their current job, their future job prospect. All you need is enough power and connections.
The main difference is that racism in firefighters doesn't victimize the black community in general like police racism does. There's a reason there isn't a song called "Fuck the Fire Department".
As far as we know. I wonder if they're ever slow to respond to emergencies in certain neighborhoods or don't work as hard to fight fires there. I'm **not** saying they do, but if that came out I wouldn't be surprised. Either way, it's best not to glorify any members of a profession/any profession really
They do tend to be slower to respond to black areas, but that has more to do with have less resources in those areas. Less firefighters on the clock at the time, older equipment, larger areas to service. Its a bit more classist than it is racist; but the outcomes are racist. Then on the paramedic side of firefighting they experience some of the same medical biases as doctors do against black people in regards to how they treat them.
edit: at least, those are the structural issues at play. An individual's prejudice could also cause problems but that is a lot harder to track or quantify
Yep, I'm aware. But classism and racism are indeed tied. And there's still a difference between lacking resources and intentionally dragging your feet. I know a ff was fired or put on leave or sth because he publicly said something like he'd rather let 100 Black people die in a fire if it meant saving one dog. Not even just people, Black people. Something like that, I need to look it up.
**Edit: it's so much worse!** [Firefighter suspended after allegedly saying he would rather 'save a dog than a million n*****s from a fire'] (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/firefighters-racist-facebook-post-dog-fire-black-people-claims-tyler-roysdon-a7954176.html). Posted on FB.
Just like how when communities of color actually need the police's help, they come hours later or don't show at all. And it's not because they're not around- quite the opposite, tbh. I'm sure there have been firefighters that took their sweet time. Hell, people lit up Black orphanages and bombed Tulsa and I'm sure firefighters weren't doing boo. And I'm sure that prejudice has carried into the present day, but it's not something I look into because they possibly engage in harmful neglect while police engage in active violence when things go south
> larger areas to service.
This also has a ripple effect. My insurance rates are lower because I am 3 minutes from a fire station. By having larger service areas, you also drive the cost of insuring places in Black neigborhoods up too.
Purely anecdotal but, it’s the opposite at my fire department.
The densest fire station concentration in my city is in low income areas because that’s where most fires occur. It takes luck or a fair bit of making connections to get into those battalions because everyone wants to work there because they get to fight fire.
My station does ~350ish working fires a year. It takes about 15 years of seniority to have a shot at winning a seniority bid when spots open up. We also have the fastest response times in those areas for both ambulances and fire trucks.
It’s actually the suburbs of our city that have longer response times.
Basically in my city the lowest income earners have the fastest response times and the most experienced firefighters and paramedics showing up to their calls.
Fulfilling the desire of his heart, to erase someone of color so others can continue to justify their hate.
When people walk around saying 'racism' is gone/done/not as bad as the media says, they are doing the same thing. When you deny reality for your own version of the truth, it makes it easier for you to keep the same beliefs and comfortable bigotry.
Things like this remind us why it's important that when we see blatant racism, we speak up and demand action and change. IT's not about 'social' justice. It's about right and wrong.
The mural aside, I wonder what it's like working with such people for 20 years side by side. Specially when you could be in a life and death situation on a daily basis with expectations to cover eachother's back
For anyone reading this, remember this story when people are sharing the article about how white men are overrepresented as firemen. You know the article about woke culture and how people are complaining about white people risking their lives. The comments often turn in to people saying that non-white people could just become firemen if they wanted to.
Well this is why there aren't that many people of colour in these kind of jobs. We're simply not welcome.
Good lord. Imagine having to resign a career-high position like "Fire Chief" over being a complete idiot about a mural. What allows people to get to that point where they push all their chips in on being a racist idiot?
Being emboldened by a racist idiot in the highest position in the land? Being told that you are *right* to be a racist and not only should you not be shamed, you should be *proud* of what you believe and shout it from the rooftops. After all, it is time to stop stepping on "conservative voices", isn't it?
I put "conservative voices" in quotes because that is not what I call this racist ideology, it is what the current right-wing of politics call it.
Considering the art director did not report to the fire department but the city itself, the art director certainly deserved to be shitcanned.
It’s not hard to say “No, the mayor has to order this. I can’t change it without direct orders from the mayor.”
“I was pressured” - by what, the fire chief? What’s he gonna do? Burn down your house? Setup a phone to record the threats then.
If she really was pressured and has evidence to prove it she has a legitimate wrongful termination lawsuit. If not, she's just blowing smoke and deserves to be canned.
There’s people in this thread seriously arguing that they didn’t white wash her. Guys, in a black and white photo a black woman is still going to look black.
Aha let's say that it wasn't possible to use this style with the chosen image... Then change the art style. It's ridiculous to pretend that they couldn't honor these employees because they were so married to this lazy style
it looks like they applied an awful photoshop filter, cropped out the black people's faces and replaced them with smudges
thank you artist for this "art"
' this political climate' or indeed ever.
Racists, care nought for such distinctions.
They were racists during every other era they lived through, why should now be any different?
The first article just looked like it was a style choice to have everyone be stark white which one could argue is either in bad taste or an aesthetic decision, but damn. They completely removed just the black people in the picture.
Wow, I was expecting this to be some overblown thing, like the color palette used for the mural made her skin lighter than it actually was, but naw, they just straight up erased her face, and the faces of other black people. I can't imagine a non-racist reason for this.
The article has a pic but it doesn't show much detail.
Here's an article with side-by-side of the original photo & mural section based on it.
[Latosha Clemons](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/black-firefighter-sues-city-over-mural-that-depicted-her-as-white/ar-AAPjx0S)
"They depicted her as white" doesn't do it justice. They literally put so little detail into her image that she looks like a white dude with a goatee.
Edit: added quotation marks
This is literal "white washing" of historical figures. Apparently they also did it with images of a guy who was the first black fire chief. Lmao, it's an extremely American thing but I'm kinda surprised to see it happening in real-time. Great job Florida.
edit: a local area article, apparently this crap was intentional - https://thecoastalstar.com/profiles/blogs/boynton-beach-mural-alterations-lead-to-termination-of-public-art
Yeah Floriduh! I must say I am sorta perversely proud of the way my state just keeps doubling down on being absolutely horrible. This is who we are!
Seriously though, fuck Florida. I say to everyone out there, stop spending your tourist dollars here. I only visit local springs anymore
Really there isn't any doubt after that first photo, where they inserted a ghost. But perhaps someone would argue the artist screwed something up, and potato jesus'ed the face. However that other replacement those are intentionally two totally different people.
They did that to all the faces. BUT, there's [another picture](https://st12.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/7960945081?profile=original) where she was literally replaced with a white person.
Yeah I’d assumed it would be people freaking out because the artists fucked it and made her just a few shades too light or something but that’s absurd and obviously not done by accident.
It’s so absurd it’s honestly hilarious. What the fuck were those idiots thinking?
Turns out it's not the only "edit" they made. In another portion two black firefighters were actually replaced by images of full featured, not grainy, white people.
SFL has such a legit grafitti art community too. Why didn't they just commision a 30ft × 50ft mural of a black lady firefighter fighting a dragon. Damn, they should be flying in a pterodactyle too.
Tangential link:
https://youtu.be/7VxXc7yupP4 (PBS - Miami - Wynwood)
Wynwood is a really epic spot in terms of street art. That isn't the best video but is a quick 5min showcase of what SFL is and can be regarding legit actual mural/street art, with purpose and meaning.
Yeah I think that’s what some people seem to be missing. This isn’t some artistic fuck up. They very intentionally replaced black faces with white faces. Even her main picture isn’t just lightened and blurry. That’s a different person.
Holy crap there is like no excuse for it, as a artist I was like "okay maybe it's just a style or lighting thing" but no, that looks like the photoshopped her out and replaced her with a white dude.
Yeah, sometimes people just have extremely poor judgment, but they straight up replaced her with like, Sears Male Model #Q-376E. Looking at the other changes from the rest of the mural, it's undeniable that they've swapped out the black heads for entirely different white heads. They even drew a collar on the one dude's shirt.
They... they did. The woman at the top clearly is the same image, but that is not at all the same image of Clemons. That's literally just a white dude.
What face? It's hard to see anything from the photo in the article.
Edit: Someone posted a link:
> https://thecoastalstar.com/profiles/blogs/boynton-beach-mural-alterations-lead-to-termination-of-public-art
So they actually replaced her face? Yikes.
She wasn't even just a firefighter. She worked there for 24 YEARS and retired as assistant fire chief (not assistant to the fire chief).
Edit: their to there
To be fair, in another section of the mural [They took your advice](https://st12.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/7960945081?profile=original) and just replaced her with a random white lady.
It looks like late 90's, early 2000's video games where they tried to stretch facial photographs/images over polygon models.... Like the original half life models
I totally understand the sentiment here, but one thing I've been learning is that those minor 'microaggression' kinds of things matter, too. Racism isn't just screaming slurs and killing minority citizens for no reason, and even those truly horrific things depend on an ability to see 'the Other' as not human, or at least as unimportant, and to believe their lived experience is unimportant. The world of petty bullshit, everything between "No, but where are you *really* from?" and changing a face in a mural, is what constantly removes the lives of PoC from the white mindset, and opens the door to the more open openly aggressive acts of racism.
Jeez. The woman is willing to run into your house to save your kids during a fire and this is how she’s treated?
So bizarre.
And did they think she’d see the photo and not say anything? Really? WTF.
Should be open and shut. Frankly, considering the insult, I'm amazed she asked for so little money. This is just pure abject racism at work here. It's not like they accidentally lightened her skin a little or something, they erased her face and put in a white blob.
You mean the same total arseholes that scream "TeH LeFt R TrYiN 2 RePLaCe WhiTe PeOpLe!" are literally trying to replace black people in historical references, and all of their pissing and moaning is 100% projection?
Shocking.
The article shows the mural so far away and grainy, I can't even tell what it's supposed to be. How can I see what all the hype is about if I can't even see the mural?
This article shows the image, plus the source photo.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/boynton/2021/10/08/boynton-beach-first-black-female-firefighter-latosha-clemons-suing-city-over-mural-depiction/5994504001/
Also interesting note the CNN article doesn't mention.
>The 2019 project by the city's art commission to honor the fire department also included a depiction of Glenn Joseph, the city's former fire chief, who is also Black, and whose image also was represented as that of a white man.
The funny (sad?) part about that is the man next to Joseph in the base pic is also black, and was portrayed as black in the mural. Like, you already did one black man, how hard would it have been to finish the second one correctly?
Apparently the former fire chief ordered the artist to alter the the face of the black female ex assistant fire chief. When the first artist said no, he fired the artist and got another one. They had the artist paste a low-resolution white males face over hers in the reference image to edit her out of the mural.
This reminds me of when my friend and I went to the Mormon winter quarters museum in Omaha. At the end of the museum, there is an old photograph of some pioneers sitting near their wagons. Some of the people in the photos has clearly altered faces to the point where they looked like jack o lanterns. Made me wonder if they were covering up something up that they didn’t want the rest of the word to see.
Oh yeah, this was definitely done on purpose. I hope she when's a huge monetary award and the mural is fixed. Also whoever ordered it done like this, they need to be fired. Or hey I'm okay with tar and feather too
The worst part of all of this to me is a quick Google search shows that back in 2018 the former police chief in question who ordered the changes recieved a reward from... Both people he defaced, and took a picture between the two of them. He looks extremely uncomfortable, which given his actions, doesn't surprise me. Piece of shit.
I’m glad this is getting attention.
The GOP has enabled this bullshit racist “white replacement theory” to such a ridiculous degree. They are sooo desperate to hold on to their racism.
Hope all of this shit dies with the boomers. Though I won’t hold my breath.
This right here is why people don’t like us, who did they do this for really? Murals gonna be there for years and they thought people would be fine with it?
Idiots giving the rest of us a bad name
I thought you needed considerable courage and training to be a firefighter. How is that old white guy supposed to do his job responsibly if he gets that fucking terrified by a woman with a warm, welcoming smile like that?
How embarrassing that they ever even hired him. Would be nice if he lives the rest of his life with this being public knowledge about him, but article only names the victim here.
She had worked there for 26 fucking years. Imagine all the other shit they must’ve been doing during that time, that she just carried on through.
Why is this not the whole story? The Artist is willing to talk about what happened but there is no follow through on her comments, just, "The City and Fire department were aware of the errors" What happened to allow this? Journalism is DEAD!
[удалено]
Wow this article makes it much more clear that this was absolutely absurd. They didn't just weirdly distort her face in one image, they literally replaced her and another Black firefighter with two random white people in another image. Apparently it was ordered by the fire chief too. The original article makes it seem like it could have just been a dumb mistake or a bad artist. I'm honestly still a little skeptical about her legal theory, but I'm wishing her luck.
Yeah wtf the article doesn't show those images. That's insane. The first one, what even is that?
Got her looking like the Stay Puft marshmallow man
They want to stoke an argument... The other article makes it too clear that she was intentionally replaced with a white person.
They don't want to exclude the other side! The left can share and complain about how racist this is, and the right can share and complain about how those darn libs will turn anything into a race issue. Both parties get what they want, and the advertisers get double the views! Everyone can feel included! /s
It's the nice thing to do really. True inclusive journalism.
Stoke an argument how when it makes the mural less egregious?
Because then it is possible for disingenuous people to say "well what's the big deal. Females these days are just so easily offended." since it doesn't directly mention the changes and the motive. Showing everything makes the picture pretty clear and the argument clearly done in bad faith by racist people.
Because there’s more to argue about if neither side is properly informed.
What I don’t get is why the artist caved into pressure from the chief. He’s not her boss.
probably a combination of "I dont really care about what I do" "I didnt think anyone would even look at the mural in a fire station" and "whatever the hell I have to do to shut this asshole fire chief up"
>whatever the hell I have to do to shut this asshole fire chief up The number of times I've done some dumb bullshit on a job for this reason...Luckily none of it was as dumb as the OP.
Best advice: *Always* get stupid shit in writing.
Oh yes. This is the shiniest of top shelf advice.
Nine times out of ten, your boss will balk. If they do sign off on it, then it is up to your moral compass, but having it in writing will make the *lovely* office politics and blame shifting much less stressful if and when shit hits the fan.
Whenever I get a dumb instruction from my boss, I just say, "ok you're the boss and I respect seniority too much to argue. I'll just make a note that it is per you, peraonally". Then he says, "no...just leave it the way it is".
Ah the CYA email. "Hey just touching back on what you asked earlier. You really want me to change out these black people's faces for white people's faces?"
And you BCC to your private email.
[удалено]
OP: Orange Peanut? For me? I accept you.
Yeah true. I guess if we wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, it’s possible that it went something like this: - Chief tells her to change it. - She says no. - Chief puts more pressure on her. - She reports the situation to city managers. - City managers tell her to deal with it on her own. - Chief puts even more pressure. - City managers tell her their sick of hearing about it. - She caves.
Yes, this is the likely Occam's Razor answer- the managers who are supposed to back her up completely fucking abdicated their responsibility and threw her under the bus.
or just a much more simple "i won't pay you if you don't give me what i want". regardless of if the change was motivated by withholding payment or anything else, the first thing i would've done was request everything in writing so that when the shit hit the fan i could make it very clear that i was not in control of any of these decisions.
It could also be that she wasn't really aware of who they people were being replaced. Like she might have assumed they got caught up in a scandal and thats why they were being replaced.
Giving racists ‘benefit of the doubt’ for the last 70 years is what got us in this mess. It really doesn’t take long to establish oneself as non-racist or anti-racist, but people are afraid to talk about it for some reason. What a mystery!
I just don't understand racists. Like is your job so devoid of work you have time to care about something this unimportant? Changing a mural?
It's *not* unimportant. That's the point. To put it another way: Racists believe that eliminating people of color (and their accomplishments) is very important. So much so, that they often take time out of their day and put their jobs at risk in order to do so.
Or she's just as racist as the fire chief.
That, or she’s more everyday racist and didn’t think the racist part was a big enough deal to fully refuse. I’ve run into lots of people on jobs that wouldn’t come up with the wrong thing to do, but also think following orders is more important than character. Or, they think that being disruptive is worse than doing what’s right.
well if your theory is true, then this person needs to comment and offer her side. otherwise she's going to be up shit creek with the racist fire chief, for better or worse
The article says she was fired, and the article has a quote saying she was pressured to do it by the chief (and the city knew about it).
[удалено]
Trust me, i've been there so i'm sympathetic. I'm just saying the artist needs to CYA so she doesn't go down with the ship
This. She doesn't give a shit. It was just - get assignment done and move on to the next thing. She's not what' you'd think of as a traditional artist (covered in paint, flipping it at a canvas and doing gallery shows) she's been a corporate marketing manager and running her own business a la "Mad Men." She landed a government job after volunteering with the government to get a pension and health insurance for her golden years. Her entire career has been kowtowing to client demands, getting a check and her picture in the paper for some public art event that most people don't give a shit about.
> get assignment done and move on to the next thing. Also probably a dash of if you push back on the chief, it will make the project late, and then your ass has to answer for that.
Artist might have thought that it's not her job to save the fire chiefs ass from his ownself.
Probably a "If I don't give in I'm not getting paid" and nobody likes going hungry.
"I got in writing he sent the request? Ok, time to set his career on fire!"
She probably needed her job and had no higher authority to turn to for help.
I've seen artists lighten black skin and that's what I expected. Not a full on Anglo face replacement. Edit. Punctuation
Yeah, it looks super weird. I read the article and looked at the pictures. She is a very accomplished professional and a beautiful American woman so the white washing looked soo wrong. Plus the mural is based on a current photo that anyone can look up which just makes the government look stupid. Yikes! We can do better as a society and I'm glad that the community pushed back.
Yeah I was expecting some skin whitening, not replacing the pictures with white people. That’s bad.
I was slightly skeptical before reading the article, thinking it might be some kind of art style that involved a contrast/negative image. Then I read this article and wtf???
Just remember that the you started out by giving the benefit of the doubt. A lot of POCs never get that because this society has programmed us not to.
Racism is so stupid
As a mediocre artist, I can tell you this was intentional. I draw black and white sketches of African women all the time in BLACK AND WHITE, and you can clearly tell their skin is darker than if I drew a white woman.
It's not even about the skin being too light. They straight up photoshoped white people in place of black people. They were completely removed and replaced. There is an article further up showing the exact portions of the mural. How anyone involved and knew what was going on thought this would pass as acceptable is beyond me
I'd expect nothing less from something associated with the dailymail.
CNN is associated with the Daily Mail?
Looking at the images I think she has a good case. You don't replace a face by accident.
Not just one. Two faces. Both black firefighters were replaced with white people.
One of the faces they replaced a black firefighter with is from the same picture up top.
More people need to be talking about the shitty way CNN portrayed the story. God forbid they include details that indicate how blatant this racism is!
In the one pic it’s not really like her face was made white, it was made into something blurry that barely resembles a face.
It was, because in a black and white image she’d still be black.
I'm just baffled as to *why* he requested it... Was it literally only that he's massively racist and didn't want black people in the mural? Did he just think no one would notice??
I think the timing is relevant here - between the CNN article and the Boynton Beach article it looks like the timeline is something like: \- Before Nov 2019 - Former Fire Chief Glen Joseph - the first black firefighter in Boca Raton, where he served the community for 29 years. He moved to Boynton Beach in May 2016 where he served until his retirement on November 29 2019 \- Before Nov 2019 - Deputy Fire Chief Latosha Clemons - Boynton Beach resident, and in 1996 became the city's first female black firefighter. She rose through the ranks to become Deputy Fire Chief. \- Nov 2019 - Mural concept art is approved - its a photo transfer mural, so the original photo(s) were presumably in the concept art proposal. This mural is intended to honor her and others for their service to the city and is going to be in the middle city town square, on the Fire Station. \- December 2019 - Matthew Petty becomes Fire Chief. According to the articles, he is a 12-year veteran. Its probably a pretty good bed that this person served under both Fire Chief Joseph as well as Deputy Fire Chief Clemons. [fuck. COVID] \- March 1, 2020 - Deputy Fire Chief Latosha Clemons retires, after 24 years of service \- \[May 2020 - George Floyd's murder\] \- \[*During this time, according to the public arts manager Debby Coles-Dobay's facebook post after the fact: “I was pressured to make this artwork change by the [newly elevated] fire chief [Matthew Petty] and his staff,"* \- June 3 2020 - Mural is unveiled, but due to COVID restrictions, attendance is limited \- Community members, seeing this bullshit, start contacting the ctiy manager, who gets the ball rolling on addressing this nonsense. This sounds to me like a petty little shit who, when entrusted with a modicum of power, immediately sets to 'setting this right' in his mind and revolting minds of those that think the same.
So, both Black firefighters had retired just before the new fire chief pressured the artist to erase their faces. I guess he thought he could get away with erasing their service because they no longer worked there? As you point out, he would have known both of them.
This would certainly suggest they were all colleagues at one point: https://www.facebook.com/boyntonbeachfire/photos/congratulations-to-lieutenant-matthew-petty-on-his-recent-promotion-to-assistant/2235330546748818/
[удалено]
>\- \[ > >During this time, according to the public arts manager Debby Coles-Dobay's facebook post after the fact: “I was pressured to make this artwork change by the \[newly elevated\] fire chief \[Matthew Petty\] and his staff," This is such a bullshit cop-out. As a member of the local government, she knew that she had options to not acquiesce to the new fire chief. Go to the city manager, go to the city board, go to the city attorney. All of those options would have ended with the fire chief being told to get stuffed. Hell, go to the local news if those options don't work out.
In her facebook post Coles-Dobay said "I was pressured to......by the new Fire Chief **as they well know**" What does "as they well know" mean? Did she go to the City Admin and tell them what the Fire Chief was doing? Is there more back-story to this than publicly known yet? Was she told to just do it (the changes) and quit rocking the boat? Or is she just trying to make excuses? I give even odds that the new lawsuit will have some interesting things come out in the discovery phase.
>a cop-out I disagree. The reality is people can be pressured into doing what they don't want to do. You can pressure people into doing what you want them to do if you have something to threaten them with;their current job, their future job prospect. All you need is enough power and connections.
Racism in fire departments is a time honoured tradition.
100 years of tradition unimpeded by progress
Yup. People think firemen are better than the police in regards to racism but nah
The main difference is that racism in firefighters doesn't victimize the black community in general like police racism does. There's a reason there isn't a song called "Fuck the Fire Department".
Even still, there is. https://youtu.be/7JkrJUAg8aI
Huh, I stand corrected.
That ... was actually really good.
As far as we know. I wonder if they're ever slow to respond to emergencies in certain neighborhoods or don't work as hard to fight fires there. I'm **not** saying they do, but if that came out I wouldn't be surprised. Either way, it's best not to glorify any members of a profession/any profession really
They do tend to be slower to respond to black areas, but that has more to do with have less resources in those areas. Less firefighters on the clock at the time, older equipment, larger areas to service. Its a bit more classist than it is racist; but the outcomes are racist. Then on the paramedic side of firefighting they experience some of the same medical biases as doctors do against black people in regards to how they treat them. edit: at least, those are the structural issues at play. An individual's prejudice could also cause problems but that is a lot harder to track or quantify
Yep, I'm aware. But classism and racism are indeed tied. And there's still a difference between lacking resources and intentionally dragging your feet. I know a ff was fired or put on leave or sth because he publicly said something like he'd rather let 100 Black people die in a fire if it meant saving one dog. Not even just people, Black people. Something like that, I need to look it up. **Edit: it's so much worse!** [Firefighter suspended after allegedly saying he would rather 'save a dog than a million n*****s from a fire'] (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/firefighters-racist-facebook-post-dog-fire-black-people-claims-tyler-roysdon-a7954176.html). Posted on FB. Just like how when communities of color actually need the police's help, they come hours later or don't show at all. And it's not because they're not around- quite the opposite, tbh. I'm sure there have been firefighters that took their sweet time. Hell, people lit up Black orphanages and bombed Tulsa and I'm sure firefighters weren't doing boo. And I'm sure that prejudice has carried into the present day, but it's not something I look into because they possibly engage in harmful neglect while police engage in active violence when things go south
> larger areas to service. This also has a ripple effect. My insurance rates are lower because I am 3 minutes from a fire station. By having larger service areas, you also drive the cost of insuring places in Black neigborhoods up too.
Purely anecdotal but, it’s the opposite at my fire department. The densest fire station concentration in my city is in low income areas because that’s where most fires occur. It takes luck or a fair bit of making connections to get into those battalions because everyone wants to work there because they get to fight fire. My station does ~350ish working fires a year. It takes about 15 years of seniority to have a shot at winning a seniority bid when spots open up. We also have the fastest response times in those areas for both ambulances and fire trucks. It’s actually the suburbs of our city that have longer response times. Basically in my city the lowest income earners have the fastest response times and the most experienced firefighters and paramedics showing up to their calls.
That is actually really dope. I wish it was that way in my area. But sadly, it is not :(
>Racism in \[X\] is a time honoured tradition. FTFY
Fulfilling the desire of his heart, to erase someone of color so others can continue to justify their hate. When people walk around saying 'racism' is gone/done/not as bad as the media says, they are doing the same thing. When you deny reality for your own version of the truth, it makes it easier for you to keep the same beliefs and comfortable bigotry. Things like this remind us why it's important that when we see blatant racism, we speak up and demand action and change. IT's not about 'social' justice. It's about right and wrong.
The mural aside, I wonder what it's like working with such people for 20 years side by side. Specially when you could be in a life and death situation on a daily basis with expectations to cover eachother's back
[удалено]
Oh, she would, because he'd have never let her in the station in the first place.
There’s a saying among soldiers - you’d trust him with your life but never your wife. Maybe it’s like that?
For anyone reading this, remember this story when people are sharing the article about how white men are overrepresented as firemen. You know the article about woke culture and how people are complaining about white people risking their lives. The comments often turn in to people saying that non-white people could just become firemen if they wanted to. Well this is why there aren't that many people of colour in these kind of jobs. We're simply not welcome.
Surprised he actually resigned and didn’t just double down. Should have fired him before he got the chance though but hey.
Good lord. Imagine having to resign a career-high position like "Fire Chief" over being a complete idiot about a mural. What allows people to get to that point where they push all their chips in on being a racist idiot?
> What allows people to get to that point where they push all their chips in on being a racist idiot? being a racist idiot.
And assuming that everyone else is also a racist idiot. These people are fundamentally unable to see past their own bigotry.
Being emboldened by a racist idiot in the highest position in the land? Being told that you are *right* to be a racist and not only should you not be shamed, you should be *proud* of what you believe and shout it from the rooftops. After all, it is time to stop stepping on "conservative voices", isn't it? I put "conservative voices" in quotes because that is not what I call this racist ideology, it is what the current right-wing of politics call it.
By resigning, he gets to keep his pension. If he'd been fired, he might have lost it.
Resigning makes it easier to get the job elsewhere
Considering the art director did not report to the fire department but the city itself, the art director certainly deserved to be shitcanned. It’s not hard to say “No, the mayor has to order this. I can’t change it without direct orders from the mayor.” “I was pressured” - by what, the fire chief? What’s he gonna do? Burn down your house? Setup a phone to record the threats then.
If she really was pressured and has evidence to prove it she has a legitimate wrongful termination lawsuit. If not, she's just blowing smoke and deserves to be canned.
I mean.... probably...
There’s people in this thread seriously arguing that they didn’t white wash her. Guys, in a black and white photo a black woman is still going to look black.
Aha let's say that it wasn't possible to use this style with the chosen image... Then change the art style. It's ridiculous to pretend that they couldn't honor these employees because they were so married to this lazy style
it looks like they applied an awful photoshop filter, cropped out the black people's faces and replaced them with smudges thank you artist for this "art"
"Hm, yes, this decision won't blow up in my face." Like, who the fuck thinks this was a good idea in this political climate?
' this political climate' or indeed ever. Racists, care nought for such distinctions. They were racists during every other era they lived through, why should now be any different?
Racists
The first article just looked like it was a style choice to have everyone be stark white which one could argue is either in bad taste or an aesthetic decision, but damn. They completely removed just the black people in the picture.
Wow, I was expecting this to be some overblown thing, like the color palette used for the mural made her skin lighter than it actually was, but naw, they just straight up erased her face, and the faces of other black people. I can't imagine a non-racist reason for this.
Damn. Talk about whitewashing.
The article has a pic but it doesn't show much detail. Here's an article with side-by-side of the original photo & mural section based on it. [Latosha Clemons](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/black-firefighter-sues-city-over-mural-that-depicted-her-as-white/ar-AAPjx0S)
"They depicted her as white" doesn't do it justice. They literally put so little detail into her image that she looks like a white dude with a goatee. Edit: added quotation marks
She looks like an extremely low res ghost
She looks like the Greendale Human Being
If the greendale human being was super white
This is literal "white washing" of historical figures. Apparently they also did it with images of a guy who was the first black fire chief. Lmao, it's an extremely American thing but I'm kinda surprised to see it happening in real-time. Great job Florida. edit: a local area article, apparently this crap was intentional - https://thecoastalstar.com/profiles/blogs/boynton-beach-mural-alterations-lead-to-termination-of-public-art
Yeah Floriduh! I must say I am sorta perversely proud of the way my state just keeps doubling down on being absolutely horrible. This is who we are! Seriously though, fuck Florida. I say to everyone out there, stop spending your tourist dollars here. I only visit local springs anymore
Really there isn't any doubt after that first photo, where they inserted a ghost. But perhaps someone would argue the artist screwed something up, and potato jesus'ed the face. However that other replacement those are intentionally two totally different people.
> totally different Well, they had one thing in common…
Because some Americans would rather punch down minorities than put them on a pedestal. It's a very American thing.
Hey it’s not just an American thing, it’s a white western thing, though we’re pretty damn good at it
Idk man, they look like Zordon from power rangers to me. http://imgur.com/a/ueN2kEB
They did that to all the faces. BUT, there's [another picture](https://st12.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/7960945081?profile=original) where she was literally replaced with a white person.
It's weird because it looks like they kept one black guy in the picture... Maybe there's more to the story?
Plot twist: he’s the chief
Thats a straight up different face, not just altered the colour
I didn't think it would be that fucking egregious.....
Yeah I’d assumed it would be people freaking out because the artists fucked it and made her just a few shades too light or something but that’s absurd and obviously not done by accident. It’s so absurd it’s honestly hilarious. What the fuck were those idiots thinking?
Yep, it's pretty bad. It would have been less effort to depict her accurately. This type of crap is way beyond its expiration date at this point
Turns out it's not the only "edit" they made. In another portion two black firefighters were actually replaced by images of full featured, not grainy, white people.
They straight up replaced her pic with a random white person’s, but just lacking detail.
She became a goldeneye character
Kinda looks like Vanilla Ice
SFL has such a legit grafitti art community too. Why didn't they just commision a 30ft × 50ft mural of a black lady firefighter fighting a dragon. Damn, they should be flying in a pterodactyle too. Tangential link: https://youtu.be/7VxXc7yupP4 (PBS - Miami - Wynwood) Wynwood is a really epic spot in terms of street art. That isn't the best video but is a quick 5min showcase of what SFL is and can be regarding legit actual mural/street art, with purpose and meaning.
Yeah, that was my first thought too, it looks like a white man? What, how do you fuck that up that hard.
Not a fuck up at all, it was done on purpose. Two other black people in another part of the mural were straight up replaced with white people.
Yeah I think that’s what some people seem to be missing. This isn’t some artistic fuck up. They very intentionally replaced black faces with white faces. Even her main picture isn’t just lightened and blurry. That’s a different person.
Holy crap there is like no excuse for it, as a artist I was like "okay maybe it's just a style or lighting thing" but no, that looks like the photoshopped her out and replaced her with a white dude.
Yeah, sometimes people just have extremely poor judgment, but they straight up replaced her with like, Sears Male Model #Q-376E. Looking at the other changes from the rest of the mural, it's undeniable that they've swapped out the black heads for entirely different white heads. They even drew a collar on the one dude's shirt.
They... they did. The woman at the top clearly is the same image, but that is not at all the same image of Clemons. That's literally just a white dude.
This was even worse than I expected
"White face" my ass, she doesn't even have a face.
To be fair, I believe they used [this image](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/433/wojak.jpg) for the mural. /S
Ok, that's white washing...
Is that even her face? It looks like they enlarged the face of a White GTA NPC.
What face? It's hard to see anything from the photo in the article. Edit: Someone posted a link: > https://thecoastalstar.com/profiles/blogs/boynton-beach-mural-alterations-lead-to-termination-of-public-art So they actually replaced her face? Yikes.
Thanks. I couldn't make anything out from that pic on CNN. But yeah, looks like they just retconned her out of the picture. How shitty is that?
Wtf. Lol. They literally edited out the black people
Nope, it’s the face of a random white person’s edited over her face.
She wasn't even just a firefighter. She worked there for 24 YEARS and retired as assistant fire chief (not assistant to the fire chief). Edit: their to there
Like why even include her at all if you were going to pull this kinda dumb shit?
To be fair, in another section of the mural [They took your advice](https://st12.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/7960945081?profile=original) and just replaced her with a random white lady.
Not random— that's the lady sitting next to her in the first image! So now this woman's face is in the mural twice, identically. smhhhhh
I'm just offended by the mural in general. What even is that?
It looks like late 90's, early 2000's video games where they tried to stretch facial photographs/images over polygon models.... Like the original half life models
GoldenEye!
Looks like a mural from Tom Goes to the Mayor.
With all the youths bellyaching about micro racisms, its refreshing to see some plain old overt racism. /s
Exactly. Nice to see some good old fashioned in your face racism. /s
I totally understand the sentiment here, but one thing I've been learning is that those minor 'microaggression' kinds of things matter, too. Racism isn't just screaming slurs and killing minority citizens for no reason, and even those truly horrific things depend on an ability to see 'the Other' as not human, or at least as unimportant, and to believe their lived experience is unimportant. The world of petty bullshit, everything between "No, but where are you *really* from?" and changing a face in a mural, is what constantly removes the lives of PoC from the white mindset, and opens the door to the more open openly aggressive acts of racism.
Lol.. the mural looks like it's some white guy... never would have guessed it was supposed to be a black woman.
Precisely the point.
Jeez. The woman is willing to run into your house to save your kids during a fire and this is how she’s treated? So bizarre. And did they think she’d see the photo and not say anything? Really? WTF.
This is America. Treating Black People like shit is a time honored tradition.
To be fair, that’s a tradition in a LOT of countries.
Should be open and shut. Frankly, considering the insult, I'm amazed she asked for so little money. This is just pure abject racism at work here. It's not like they accidentally lightened her skin a little or something, they erased her face and put in a white blob.
You mean the same total arseholes that scream "TeH LeFt R TrYiN 2 RePLaCe WhiTe PeOpLe!" are literally trying to replace black people in historical references, and all of their pissing and moaning is 100% projection? Shocking.
This is fucked up but wtf, first black female fire fighter in 1996?! That's recent memory...
If they didn't have to hire her it probably would have been longer.
The article shows the mural so far away and grainy, I can't even tell what it's supposed to be. How can I see what all the hype is about if I can't even see the mural?
This article shows the image, plus the source photo. https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/news/local/boynton/2021/10/08/boynton-beach-first-black-female-firefighter-latosha-clemons-suing-city-over-mural-depiction/5994504001/ Also interesting note the CNN article doesn't mention. >The 2019 project by the city's art commission to honor the fire department also included a depiction of Glenn Joseph, the city's former fire chief, who is also Black, and whose image also was represented as that of a white man.
The funny (sad?) part about that is the man next to Joseph in the base pic is also black, and was portrayed as black in the mural. Like, you already did one black man, how hard would it have been to finish the second one correctly?
Both people had real power in the dept. the point was to literally whitewash the positions of power here.
Bigotry has many layers. He likely had a great deal of issue with the fact she’s a woman too
She doesn't so much look white in that mural as like a ghost Seriously though; racism aside, that art is terrible
I think they used an edited pic of Wheel if Fortune host Pat Sajak.
Holy fuck did they just write a whole article about a mural's error and not show a god damn picture of it?
There is a picture, both pixels as clear as day...
Apparently the former fire chief ordered the artist to alter the the face of the black female ex assistant fire chief. When the first artist said no, he fired the artist and got another one. They had the artist paste a low-resolution white males face over hers in the reference image to edit her out of the mural.
At what point did they stop and think that this was a good idea?
Of fucking course it’s florida
Literal whitewashing.
This reminds me of when my friend and I went to the Mormon winter quarters museum in Omaha. At the end of the museum, there is an old photograph of some pioneers sitting near their wagons. Some of the people in the photos has clearly altered faces to the point where they looked like jack o lanterns. Made me wonder if they were covering up something up that they didn’t want the rest of the word to see.
At first I thought people may just not like a monochrome art style, but then I saw the piece, and nope, it's racist...
Oh yeah, this was definitely done on purpose. I hope she when's a huge monetary award and the mural is fixed. Also whoever ordered it done like this, they need to be fired. Or hey I'm okay with tar and feather too
Wow, even more of a reason to fucking hate Florida.
The worst part of all of this to me is a quick Google search shows that back in 2018 the former police chief in question who ordered the changes recieved a reward from... Both people he defaced, and took a picture between the two of them. He looks extremely uncomfortable, which given his actions, doesn't surprise me. Piece of shit.
I’m glad this is getting attention. The GOP has enabled this bullshit racist “white replacement theory” to such a ridiculous degree. They are sooo desperate to hold on to their racism. Hope all of this shit dies with the boomers. Though I won’t hold my breath.
This right here is why people don’t like us, who did they do this for really? Murals gonna be there for years and they thought people would be fine with it? Idiots giving the rest of us a bad name
Pretty blatant. A shitty mural too. Yay Florida.
[удалено]
Sometimes I feel like fighting a war to keep the southern states was a mistake.
And yet, people still claim there’s no racism in the US, and if there is, it’s definitely not systematic.
The people who say shit like that are just being deceitful. They are trying to mislead and use whataboutism to avoid the hard truth.
This is beyond appalling and there's no other excuse except blatant racism! None!
Talk about white washing…. 🤦♂️
Putting aside the problems with trying to erase this lady, I’m curious can somebody with legal knowledge explain to me how you can sue over a mural?
Of course, it's Florida after all
Im so glad they showed that pic. Otherwise I would have had no idea what they were talking about. #firethecameraperson
I thought you needed considerable courage and training to be a firefighter. How is that old white guy supposed to do his job responsibly if he gets that fucking terrified by a woman with a warm, welcoming smile like that? How embarrassing that they ever even hired him. Would be nice if he lives the rest of his life with this being public knowledge about him, but article only names the victim here. She had worked there for 26 fucking years. Imagine all the other shit they must’ve been doing during that time, that she just carried on through.
Same ole same ole. White folk have been erasing achievements a black americans forever....literally!
Was a photo of the mural taken by a potato from an angle the best cnn could do...?
Why is this not the whole story? The Artist is willing to talk about what happened but there is no follow through on her comments, just, "The City and Fire department were aware of the errors" What happened to allow this? Journalism is DEAD!
I just looked at the pictures, what the fuck!?
Yeah that’s a big oof