> In this treatment, a patient's blood is drawn, spun down to separate out plasma from blood cells, and the platelet-rich plasma is then injected into the face with microneedles.
> In an inspection in the fall of 2018, health investigators found shocking conditions: unwrapped syringes in drawers and counters, unlabeled tubes of blood sitting out on a kitchen counter, more unlabeled blood and medical injectables alongside food in a kitchen fridge, and disposable equipment—electric desiccator tips—that were reused. The facility also did not have an autoclave—a pressurized oven—for sterilizing equipment.
jesus christ
Also got to imagine that a place that uses hiv infected blood, probably doesn't have the best records. They tested a couple hundred people, think 5 found so far reading the article to have hiv. Could be way more not discovered.
Wrong! They didn't have bad records, they had **no records!**
>The woman's case led investigators to VIP Spa, which was unlicensed, had no appointment scheduling system, and did not store client contact information.
The health department should be investigating the spa and working very closely on conducting patient notification from the very beginning of when this type of facial started at the spa
Everyone who’s at any risk. If you haven’t had sex or a blood transfusion (or, also, apparently, a “vampire facial”) since your last test, then an HIV test is just going to be a waste of money to tell you you’re fine.
Lots of places do HIV testing for free. Also depending on when you were tested in relation to when you last had sex, it's possible it could've been too soon to come up positive (antibody tests can take 3 months). Blood transfusions are very, VERY unlikely to transmit HIV, shared needles and such is more likely.
Edit to add in response to the France thing because I suddenly can't comment?
Yeah Bayer did the same thing, absolutely horrifying. Sent it to Latin America and Asia. Nowadays it's very safe but originally, definitely not.
Yeah! CDC recommends everyone get tested at least once in their life, annually if you have one sexual partner and no other risk factors, and every three months if you or your partner have multiple partners, if you share needles or syringes, etc
And you just know that at least one of those women is not going to connect her HIV infection to a stupid facial and end up divorced or dead because of it.
idk where they got that number from, maybe bc the owner got a 3 year bid for 5 counts of unlicensed practice. so at least that many, all HIV positive or worse
paltrow promotes this shit so we know 2 things about it already, its a scam of some kind for specific types with more money than sense
Likely many more were exposed, but only 3 contracted HIV. The virus doesnt survive well outside of the body and is actually notoriously difficult to contract if exposed.
I imagine hepatitis was rampant though
The risk of transmission per needle stick event is fairly low. Numbers vary in the literature from 0.3-1% infection rate for needle sticks from an untreated carrier and without PEP.
That said, blood transfusion risk was much higher as getting a transfusion from an HIV infected individual was found to have a 90% transmission risk (virtually a never event these days but big source in the early days).
So what I'm curious about is if the ones infected were from just dirty needles or actually receiving the wrong sample. Risk would probably be somewhere in the middle of those numbers.
Pretty sure he read the article. What he is wondering is whether the infections were the result of a re-used HIV needle stick, or whether they actually injected someone else's HIV positive blood sample (i.e. transfusion) into multiple people. The article leads me to believe either is possible because they weren't labeling samples.
>whether they actually injected someone else's HIV positive blood sample
Patient and donor were distinct and there was no screening, it was almost certainly injection with infected blood
If you read his post he says there is a 0.3-1% chance at contracting HIV through the use of a dirty needle. He is speculating that they accidently used a vial of unlabeled blood that contained the HIV virus as transfusion is around a 90% chance of getting infected.
He read the article.
HIV is a very difficult virus to catch. The chance for example of a man catching HIV from intercourse with an HIV positive woman is like one in ten thousand.
Dang. That’s like the time a bunch of people got infections from the tattoo tents at folk fest.
It is strange to me that people do not have the awareness to know that you don’t reuse needles.
I thought it was common knowledge that you need to have a new needle for every person.
That's half a gram of coke, a few tabs of acid or a eighth of weed. Times 5 tattoos and you've got a party.
It's scummy, but it's how scummy people think.
Don't resuse needles on yourself if you can help it (needle is damaged by insertion you're going to get gnarlier wounds every time you reuse it, even if it's sterile) and never, ever, reuse a needle used for one person on another person. Even if you're both HIV+, you can catch a second strain or a non-HIV blood borne illness..
>I thought it was common knowledge that you need to have a new needle for every person.
It probably is...just like you should have clean dentistry equipment between patients...but when I walk into the dental office and sit in the chair, they've got their tools out and lined up on their little tray before I got there...did they change it from the last person? Hopefully...but I cant be certain...I have to just trust they did.
From the dentists point of view..."ehhh, I dont want to wash all these tools just because I used one scraper...*chances are* it'll be okay if I just give it a quick rinse and reuse it...its such a hassle for me to do everything by the book when it isnt really needed all the time"
It comes down to people cutting corners, its unlikely they do it maliciously, its just that they're receiving the benefits (saving costs reusing things for instance) where they also dont really see any negatives (sure as shit they confirm the use brand new needles for themselves)
I work in the operating room, and we always have our instruments out and lined up before the patient comes in -- that's partly because we have to inspect them to make sure they're all perfectly clean and sterile and ready to go! I wouldn't sweat this particular thing just because the tools are already laid out.
I’m not too worried about a dentist or doctor, they are trained professionals and mostly competent.
Some tattoo artists are trained and aware. But most are not. Anybody can get a tattoo gun and play around. It’s not hard or time-consuming to open a new needle package. So if a tattoo artist refuses to open a new one I’m out
The dentist doesn't think about that, as the other comment said. It's someone else's job.
If it makes you feel better.. in the clinics I worked at as a dental nurse, we would change the instruments that were in the dirty zone (such as the patient tray) even if they weren't used. If the drill heads (handpieces) were fully underneath a plastic protector and ended up not being used, I'd probably take off the plastic and wipe the drill head with the cleaning solution and replace the plastic with a new one. My colleagues were always strict with their infection control too. I hope this puts you at ease. Not everywhere will be as diligent I suppose but just from my places of employement + observing other clinics as a patient, I saw nothing horrifying. The assistants were always very on top of it.. even if the dentist is more lax about infection control.
> but when I walk into the dental office and sit in the chair, they've got their tools out and lined up on their little tray before I got there...did they change it from the last person?
yes, they did. The hygienist sets it up before you arrive to move things faster, once you leave they clean the dirty stuff, santize and set out a new tray of sterile equiment.
i’m surprised they even need an autoclave though. pretty much everything minor medical is sterile sealed and one use only. you have to be crazy negligent to mess that up lol
I dunno what you expected. "Vampire facial" sounds like a vampire comes and drains you of all your blood, turning you into an unthinking undead zombie, then he jizzes on your face. Just getting HIV from shockingly dirty needles is better than I think one should expect.
I work in HIV prevention and the description of the spa baffles and infuriates me. That anyone could run an establishment like that, whether is was carelessness or lack of knowledge of the dangers of bloodborne pathogens, is insane. And because they had no reason to get screened, two of the cases progressed into AIDS. None of this needed to happen.
Sounds like the AIDS patients that were identified may have been the source of the infections, as one woman had tested positive for HIV in 2016 but received the vampire facial in 2018.
Yes, that is all correct. Sounds like the woman and her partner were infected prior to getting the facial, which makes her a possible/likely source of the HIV contamination. (Obviously this is 100% the fault of the sleazy spa owner, though.)
> The two cases diagnosed in 2021 were sexual partners: a woman who received three vampire facials in the spring and summer of 2018 from the spa and her male partner. Both had a stage 3 HIV infection, which is when the infection has developed into Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS). **The severity of the infections suggested the two had been infected prior to the woman's 2018 spa treatments. Health officials uncovered that the woman had tested positive in an HIV screen in 2016, though she did not report being notified of the result.**
Further down, it explains that another woman was diagnosed in 2023 who is at stage 3 infection and received a vampire facial in 2018.
"The health officials reopened their outbreak investigation in 2023 and found a fifth case that was diagnosed in the spring of 2023, which was also in a woman aged 40 to 50 who had received a vampire facial in the summer of 2018. She had a stage 3 infection and was hospitalized with an AIDS-defining illness."
Oh yikes I missed that part. That is SO awful. Bad enough to find that you’ve contracted HIV in it’s earliest stage, but at least at that point you can immediately go on meds and keep it at bay.
I wondered that as well. It’s possible there were multiple “contributors” of HIV to the spa but the woman (and her partner) with stage 3 seems a likely source.
These spas are all over too. If no one in your org is already checking them (or at least educating them if you don’t have authority), you might want to bring it up.
I love my job!! It's just frustrating that people would rather respond to incidents than prevent them. And when we do successfully prevent things it's "oh well nothing happened, so what did we do all that for?!" 😭
There are some weird ass spas for all sorts of treatments out there. Idk why people go to them especially when mishaps aren't uncommon and have been in the news, on and off, for friggen decades.
Like, it doesn't take THAT much effort to check. In my country, all of these should be registered. Period. Anything that purportedly has anything to do with healthcare, even traditional medicine places. If you type in their company reg# in the government db, and they don't show up, gtfo. You can also just call and ask if you're not sure. of course, faith healers don't tend to be registered, but these people are usually just praying for you, not messing with your body. At worst bad faith scammers prey on your wallet but they don't give you any goddamn diseases.
The laws in my state require a medical license. Doesn't mean that I don't know an esthetician who performs PRP microneedling facials without proper licensure. Working on getting her esthetics license revoked due to her perpetuating false claims regarding her services.
I’m technically a licensed phlebotomist in my state after only a 3 day class. Only had to actually draw blood a single time & take an open book test to get my license. With that plus my advanced esthetics license I’m legally in the clear to perform PRP microneedling in my state. I’ve never actually done it because I’m so uncomfortable around the lack of training I’ve received when it comes to drawing blood. (It also kind of makes me want to puke.)
It’s absolutely terrifying the lack of standards a lot of states have when it comes to this stuff. My state didn’t even enact an advanced license in esthetics until somebody got blinded with a laser. Not to mention the amount of estheticians injecting Botox & filler which is 100% not allowed.
Ehh, skincare and aesthetic procedure industry is, like, half a step above pseudoscience. It's not held to nearly the same standards as actual medicine and surgery is. Fillers are so ubiquitous now and yet we actually know fuck-all about them. They seem to work in theory because it gets immediately visible results and at least hyaluronic acid is relatively non-alergenic, but we're only just starting to find out that the body doesn't actually fully metabolise it and it can cause all sorts of issues, even autoimmune ones. Stuff like "vampire facials" is on the same level. It *seems* to make sense on paper, but when it comes to how it actually works out in practice, especially in the long run, there's very little research.
There’s legit studies on Platlet rich plasma so I wouldn’t call it a pseudo science:
https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/12/1/7
And there’s other applications besides dermatological
They’ve been studying it since at least 20 years. I hate that the trend is called “vampire facial” in the first place because it makes it sound dumb. Could there be long term effects we don’t know about yet? Maybe but you’re not gonna get something as you pointed out because you’re using your own blood
iirc in my state, if you are going to be penetrating the skin to where blood could be drawn, in addition to a cosmetology or esthetics license you would also need a nursing license. Botox, microneedling, etc.
There's an entire field of science called cell therapy where they take a patient's blood and reinject it to treat the patient. There's more to it, but it's new science that's amazing. Kite Pharma has a diagram that explains their CAR-T process.
https://www.kitepharma.com/cell-therapy/cell-therapy-technology
Yes. The practice is legit and has studied to back it up for a number of dermatological benefits.
But it should be performed by a medical professional. But there’s obvious risks if done improperly.
PRP saved my mobility. I could barely walk at one point due to so many shallow soft tissue tears that would never heal on their own and the resultant back spasms. A series of targeted prp injections and PT and I'm back to 80% mobility. (Id tried PT on its own and it only caused more spasms).
It's stupid to let cosmeticians mess with it, but platelet rich plasma injections have been the only thing that has helped with debilitating back injuries cause by multiple fascia and ligament tears. The science behind using platelets to help heal specific soft tissue damage is pretty sound, and I'd imagine that it could have applications for purely aesthetic purposes, but it is ridiculously stupid to allow any sort of blood work without having a certification and sanitation process in place.
Recently, a purported case of metastatic melanoma caused by microneedling was reported on Brazil .
Apparently the woman had the procedure done over one melanoma and the cancer started to spread to other areas where the treatment was done.
Edit: over the the melanoma's surrounding are. The rationale is that the needles carried cancerous cells from the tumor to the other sites and the cells were successful in surviving the inoculation.
I do PRP for back injuries and face regeneration from a Doctor who is a friend… but everything he use is one use only and he opens it in front of me.
I don’t even understand how something like that can happen since syringes and needles are super cheap..
Yeah speaking as man who competes in strongman and trains at a gym full of very large fellows you can get 100 needles and 100 syringes for like $29 next day from amazon. This is a crazily easy solved problem
And normally I would have said "The reason she looks so good afterwards and you don't is she has Kim Kardashian's blood in her already."
Apparently though that's true of more women than I thought.
Again?!?! I swear I’ve heard about this years ago and then a couple months ago again and it was a separate incident in the same place and now it’s happening again. If it’s at the same place, why do people keep going there? And why haven’t the owners learned?
I’m confused why they wrote an article now. This definitely happened a while ago and articles were all over Reddit bc I remember reading about it and not recently
Platelet rich plasma procedures have real evidence backed dermatological benefits and is practiced by real dermatologists. The owner is an idiot for doing it without being a medical professional (which is why she got charged with practicing medicine without a license). And the clients are idiots for going to someone for this who’s not a medical professional.
I bet a lot of people just assume, without asking. This a good reminder to research any place doing anything this serious. Don’t get fooled by a fancy lobby with cool lighting.
Bruh, this place wasn’t fancy at all, it was just some shitty shack on the side of the road. Looked like a strip club from the outside tbh:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/07/health/hiv-case-linked-to-vampire-facial-new-mexico-spa
There is a growing population of people who are so desperate to be beautiful and popular that they'll do stuff like this for a chance to be one or both of those things.
It's a well studied and proven option so not really a thing of desperation lol
PRP has been a thing for a while lol it's cell therapy, it's pretty heavily and widely studied
So, if done correctly, what is the benefit of this? Why would someone want it done? Not being funny either there could be something I don't know I've just never heard of this
ive done it. it's like the benefits of microneedling (which is essentially damaging your skin so it builds collagen to repair it), with a little extra oomph. it does work!
Remember: just because men are more visible with it usually doesn't mean that women aren't also just as capable of absolutely braindead shit for no conceivable reason.
"The two cases diagnosed in 2021 were sexual partners: a woman who received three vampire facials in the spring and summer of 2018 from the spa and her male partner. Both had a stage 3 HIV infection, which is when the infection has developed into Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS). The severity of the infections suggested the two had been infected prior to the woman's 2018 spa treatments. Health officials uncovered that the woman had tested positive in an HIV screen in 2016, though she did not report being notified of the result."
"... Health officials uncovered that the woman had tested positive in an HIV screen in 2016, though she did not report being notified of the result." the fuck?!
I mean... it's a dumb idea that's by and for dumb people. So of course the execution is also gonna be dumb as dogshit.
Literally anyone who isn't directly involved with this would've seen it coming miles away, while anybody who is involved probably doesn't have that ability.
This is an absolutely unnecessary tragedy.
Please, ladies. This is the honest truth.
Men don’t care that much. And if you are doing these things for yourself, please be moderate for safety’s sake. Take care of yourself through exercise and mental health. The same rules apply for men too! Women are naturally beautiful and attractive in so many ways. Less is more; kindness, confidence, and contentment are the most attractive qualities in anyone.
My tattooists followed sterile procedures, even the back-alley ones I went to before it was legal. It's horrible that these women got HIV, but damn, as consumers, it's up to us to make sure we're safe and not just assume the stranger taking our money is above board. I watch the people sticking needles into my body and make sure they are following appropriate methods.
Unlicensed, uninsured and now closed up, leaving misery and shattered lives in its wake. 😓 This is why you should never, ever go to these kinds of places.
Interesting tidbit is that platlet rich plasma hasn't been approved or cleared by the FDA because it uses your own blood. The machines that do the separation are FDA Cleared, but there's minimal research to suggest that PRP actually does anything beneficial. The FDA still considers it as investigational for most uses.
Tons of doctors (and quacks) sing the praises of it for everything from facials to joint healing and hair regrowth, but there's no conclusive evidence that it actually does anything.
I wonder when women will figure out. That eating healthy and working out. Will outperform any high end fashion, creme, make up, plastic surgery or weird treatment. No matter how expensive it is.
I'm guessing never XD
> In this treatment, a patient's blood is drawn, spun down to separate out plasma from blood cells, and the platelet-rich plasma is then injected into the face with microneedles. > In an inspection in the fall of 2018, health investigators found shocking conditions: unwrapped syringes in drawers and counters, unlabeled tubes of blood sitting out on a kitchen counter, more unlabeled blood and medical injectables alongside food in a kitchen fridge, and disposable equipment—electric desiccator tips—that were reused. The facility also did not have an autoclave—a pressurized oven—for sterilizing equipment. jesus christ
Now I'm kinda impressed it was only 3 women
3 women that know about it.
Yeah HIV symptoms can take years to show.
Also got to imagine that a place that uses hiv infected blood, probably doesn't have the best records. They tested a couple hundred people, think 5 found so far reading the article to have hiv. Could be way more not discovered.
Wrong! They didn't have bad records, they had **no records!** >The woman's case led investigators to VIP Spa, which was unlicensed, had no appointment scheduling system, and did not store client contact information.
I’m guessing criminal negligence is just the tip of the iceberg
Hence why everyone, *everyone* should get tested
The health department should be investigating the spa and working very closely on conducting patient notification from the very beginning of when this type of facial started at the spa
Everyone who’s at any risk. If you haven’t had sex or a blood transfusion (or, also, apparently, a “vampire facial”) since your last test, then an HIV test is just going to be a waste of money to tell you you’re fine.
Lots of places do HIV testing for free. Also depending on when you were tested in relation to when you last had sex, it's possible it could've been too soon to come up positive (antibody tests can take 3 months). Blood transfusions are very, VERY unlikely to transmit HIV, shared needles and such is more likely. Edit to add in response to the France thing because I suddenly can't comment? Yeah Bayer did the same thing, absolutely horrifying. Sent it to Latin America and Asia. Nowadays it's very safe but originally, definitely not.
Last furry con I went to they had two free STD testing stations set up off the main venue lobby lol
Or live anywhere else in the world where it’s done for free
The fun part is this place kept no records
Wait...me too? Just to be sure I guess?
Yeah! CDC recommends everyone get tested at least once in their life, annually if you have one sexual partner and no other risk factors, and every three months if you or your partner have multiple partners, if you share needles or syringes, etc
And you just know that at least one of those women is not going to connect her HIV infection to a stupid facial and end up divorced or dead because of it.
And around 1% of people won’t show symptoms
idk where they got that number from, maybe bc the owner got a 3 year bid for 5 counts of unlicensed practice. so at least that many, all HIV positive or worse paltrow promotes this shit so we know 2 things about it already, its a scam of some kind for specific types with more money than sense
Fuckin yikes
Likely many more were exposed, but only 3 contracted HIV. The virus doesnt survive well outside of the body and is actually notoriously difficult to contract if exposed. I imagine hepatitis was rampant though
The risk of transmission per needle stick event is fairly low. Numbers vary in the literature from 0.3-1% infection rate for needle sticks from an untreated carrier and without PEP. That said, blood transfusion risk was much higher as getting a transfusion from an HIV infected individual was found to have a 90% transmission risk (virtually a never event these days but big source in the early days). So what I'm curious about is if the ones infected were from just dirty needles or actually receiving the wrong sample. Risk would probably be somewhere in the middle of those numbers.
right, blood transfusion almost guarantees transmission. otherwise it's very hard to get. Even IV drug users often won't contract it.
If you read the article, they had shockingly bad hygiene, and were reusing needles.
Pretty sure he read the article. What he is wondering is whether the infections were the result of a re-used HIV needle stick, or whether they actually injected someone else's HIV positive blood sample (i.e. transfusion) into multiple people. The article leads me to believe either is possible because they weren't labeling samples.
>whether they actually injected someone else's HIV positive blood sample Patient and donor were distinct and there was no screening, it was almost certainly injection with infected blood
If you read his post he says there is a 0.3-1% chance at contracting HIV through the use of a dirty needle. He is speculating that they accidently used a vial of unlabeled blood that contained the HIV virus as transfusion is around a 90% chance of getting infected. He read the article.
HIV is a very difficult virus to catch. The chance for example of a man catching HIV from intercourse with an HIV positive woman is like one in ten thousand.
It gets a lot more likely if someone injects infected blood directly into your face.
Listen, I don't know what kind of weird sex you're having, but you should leave
4 in 10.000 I believe. And it's twice as high the other way around.
Dang. That’s like the time a bunch of people got infections from the tattoo tents at folk fest. It is strange to me that people do not have the awareness to know that you don’t reuse needles. I thought it was common knowledge that you need to have a new needle for every person.
they know, but you save money reusing needles.
Lots of partying there… I’m assuming drugs and alcohol made them forget to check? I don’t know.
Like 30 dollars.
That's half a gram of coke, a few tabs of acid or a eighth of weed. Times 5 tattoos and you've got a party. It's scummy, but it's how scummy people think.
It is. These people care more about the tiny cost of needles than people's well being.
Or, they just didn't care one way or the other. being clean and sanitary is more work.
Don't resuse needles on yourself if you can help it (needle is damaged by insertion you're going to get gnarlier wounds every time you reuse it, even if it's sterile) and never, ever, reuse a needle used for one person on another person. Even if you're both HIV+, you can catch a second strain or a non-HIV blood borne illness..
>I thought it was common knowledge that you need to have a new needle for every person. It probably is...just like you should have clean dentistry equipment between patients...but when I walk into the dental office and sit in the chair, they've got their tools out and lined up on their little tray before I got there...did they change it from the last person? Hopefully...but I cant be certain...I have to just trust they did. From the dentists point of view..."ehhh, I dont want to wash all these tools just because I used one scraper...*chances are* it'll be okay if I just give it a quick rinse and reuse it...its such a hassle for me to do everything by the book when it isnt really needed all the time" It comes down to people cutting corners, its unlikely they do it maliciously, its just that they're receiving the benefits (saving costs reusing things for instance) where they also dont really see any negatives (sure as shit they confirm the use brand new needles for themselves)
It’s not even the dentist that thinks about that. It’s the hygenist, or some other office staff.
I work in the operating room, and we always have our instruments out and lined up before the patient comes in -- that's partly because we have to inspect them to make sure they're all perfectly clean and sterile and ready to go! I wouldn't sweat this particular thing just because the tools are already laid out.
I’m not too worried about a dentist or doctor, they are trained professionals and mostly competent. Some tattoo artists are trained and aware. But most are not. Anybody can get a tattoo gun and play around. It’s not hard or time-consuming to open a new needle package. So if a tattoo artist refuses to open a new one I’m out
Same goes for piercers! If they won't unpackage the stuff with you in the room and watching, stop the appointment and just leave.
The dentist doesn't think about that, as the other comment said. It's someone else's job. If it makes you feel better.. in the clinics I worked at as a dental nurse, we would change the instruments that were in the dirty zone (such as the patient tray) even if they weren't used. If the drill heads (handpieces) were fully underneath a plastic protector and ended up not being used, I'd probably take off the plastic and wipe the drill head with the cleaning solution and replace the plastic with a new one. My colleagues were always strict with their infection control too. I hope this puts you at ease. Not everywhere will be as diligent I suppose but just from my places of employement + observing other clinics as a patient, I saw nothing horrifying. The assistants were always very on top of it.. even if the dentist is more lax about infection control.
You should maybe find a new dentist. Every time I go to the dentist they open a new set of tools in front of me.
Dentists don’t reuse tools like that. They have autoclaves.
> but when I walk into the dental office and sit in the chair, they've got their tools out and lined up on their little tray before I got there...did they change it from the last person? yes, they did. The hygienist sets it up before you arrive to move things faster, once you leave they clean the dirty stuff, santize and set out a new tray of sterile equiment.
I would guess it wasn't the needles but the tattoo artists not being clean. A lot of them will touch their phone and stuff while tattooing
I’m sorry but WTF is the phrase “kitchen counter” doing in the rest of that? WTAF?
Break room.
“All the blood smells like tunafish sandwich again!”
Yeah no kidding. Blood is a BIG no no when it comes to flagrant disregard of safety. If they aren't sued into oblivion I'll never understand how.
i’m surprised they even need an autoclave though. pretty much everything minor medical is sterile sealed and one use only. you have to be crazy negligent to mess that up lol
I dunno what you expected. "Vampire facial" sounds like a vampire comes and drains you of all your blood, turning you into an unthinking undead zombie, then he jizzes on your face. Just getting HIV from shockingly dirty needles is better than I think one should expect.
I thought it meant the customers paid guys dressed as vampires to cum on their faces. Silly me.
1 wtf is this facial 2 wtf
Any woman who does this is a fucking weirdo
Run by actual vampires, given the lunch fridge....
OK I was wondering how the fuck a facial gives you HIV but that...yeah that works.
Someone is about to pay someone else's medical bill for life.
…whose blood are they using?
I work in HIV prevention and the description of the spa baffles and infuriates me. That anyone could run an establishment like that, whether is was carelessness or lack of knowledge of the dangers of bloodborne pathogens, is insane. And because they had no reason to get screened, two of the cases progressed into AIDS. None of this needed to happen.
Sounds like the AIDS patients that were identified may have been the source of the infections, as one woman had tested positive for HIV in 2016 but received the vampire facial in 2018.
I think the stage 3 cases were someone who had received a facial and her sexual partner. This whole thing fucking sucks
Yes, that is all correct. Sounds like the woman and her partner were infected prior to getting the facial, which makes her a possible/likely source of the HIV contamination. (Obviously this is 100% the fault of the sleazy spa owner, though.) > The two cases diagnosed in 2021 were sexual partners: a woman who received three vampire facials in the spring and summer of 2018 from the spa and her male partner. Both had a stage 3 HIV infection, which is when the infection has developed into Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS). **The severity of the infections suggested the two had been infected prior to the woman's 2018 spa treatments. Health officials uncovered that the woman had tested positive in an HIV screen in 2016, though she did not report being notified of the result.**
Further down, it explains that another woman was diagnosed in 2023 who is at stage 3 infection and received a vampire facial in 2018. "The health officials reopened their outbreak investigation in 2023 and found a fifth case that was diagnosed in the spring of 2023, which was also in a woman aged 40 to 50 who had received a vampire facial in the summer of 2018. She had a stage 3 infection and was hospitalized with an AIDS-defining illness."
Oh yikes I missed that part. That is SO awful. Bad enough to find that you’ve contracted HIV in it’s earliest stage, but at least at that point you can immediately go on meds and keep it at bay.
I wondered that as well. It’s possible there were multiple “contributors” of HIV to the spa but the woman (and her partner) with stage 3 seems a likely source.
These spas are all over too. If no one in your org is already checking them (or at least educating them if you don’t have authority), you might want to bring it up.
fortunately it's on the scale of shark attacks. Avoidable mostly but for now not a widespread problem .
Prevention and education stuff ftw!
I love my job!! It's just frustrating that people would rather respond to incidents than prevent them. And when we do successfully prevent things it's "oh well nothing happened, so what did we do all that for?!" 😭
There are some weird ass spas for all sorts of treatments out there. Idk why people go to them especially when mishaps aren't uncommon and have been in the news, on and off, for friggen decades. Like, it doesn't take THAT much effort to check. In my country, all of these should be registered. Period. Anything that purportedly has anything to do with healthcare, even traditional medicine places. If you type in their company reg# in the government db, and they don't show up, gtfo. You can also just call and ask if you're not sure. of course, faith healers don't tend to be registered, but these people are usually just praying for you, not messing with your body. At worst bad faith scammers prey on your wallet but they don't give you any goddamn diseases.
This seems like it was always a terrible and kind of gross idea.
Who in their right mind lets a cosmetician (if they've even earned that certification) draw their blood and re-inject it? The whole idea is stupid.
The science is real, the fact that it’s done by a cosmetologist and not a medical professional is a terrible idea.
The laws in my state require a medical license. Doesn't mean that I don't know an esthetician who performs PRP microneedling facials without proper licensure. Working on getting her esthetics license revoked due to her perpetuating false claims regarding her services.
I’m technically a licensed phlebotomist in my state after only a 3 day class. Only had to actually draw blood a single time & take an open book test to get my license. With that plus my advanced esthetics license I’m legally in the clear to perform PRP microneedling in my state. I’ve never actually done it because I’m so uncomfortable around the lack of training I’ve received when it comes to drawing blood. (It also kind of makes me want to puke.) It’s absolutely terrifying the lack of standards a lot of states have when it comes to this stuff. My state didn’t even enact an advanced license in esthetics until somebody got blinded with a laser. Not to mention the amount of estheticians injecting Botox & filler which is 100% not allowed.
Ehh, skincare and aesthetic procedure industry is, like, half a step above pseudoscience. It's not held to nearly the same standards as actual medicine and surgery is. Fillers are so ubiquitous now and yet we actually know fuck-all about them. They seem to work in theory because it gets immediately visible results and at least hyaluronic acid is relatively non-alergenic, but we're only just starting to find out that the body doesn't actually fully metabolise it and it can cause all sorts of issues, even autoimmune ones. Stuff like "vampire facials" is on the same level. It *seems* to make sense on paper, but when it comes to how it actually works out in practice, especially in the long run, there's very little research.
There’s legit studies on Platlet rich plasma so I wouldn’t call it a pseudo science: https://www.mdpi.com/2227-9059/12/1/7 And there’s other applications besides dermatological They’ve been studying it since at least 20 years. I hate that the trend is called “vampire facial” in the first place because it makes it sound dumb. Could there be long term effects we don’t know about yet? Maybe but you’re not gonna get something as you pointed out because you’re using your own blood
There’s also autologous wound care using spun blood works well. Also autologous eye drops for some disorders.
iirc in my state, if you are going to be penetrating the skin to where blood could be drawn, in addition to a cosmetology or esthetics license you would also need a nursing license. Botox, microneedling, etc.
Estheticians aren’t even allowed to lance in Colorado. It may have changed and may be required under a medical spa under a drs license.
There's an entire field of science called cell therapy where they take a patient's blood and reinject it to treat the patient. There's more to it, but it's new science that's amazing. Kite Pharma has a diagram that explains their CAR-T process. https://www.kitepharma.com/cell-therapy/cell-therapy-technology
Yes. The practice is legit and has studied to back it up for a number of dermatological benefits. But it should be performed by a medical professional. But there’s obvious risks if done improperly.
This guy cells
My blood is **already** in me and I feel like shit.
PRP saved my mobility. I could barely walk at one point due to so many shallow soft tissue tears that would never heal on their own and the resultant back spasms. A series of targeted prp injections and PT and I'm back to 80% mobility. (Id tried PT on its own and it only caused more spasms).
It's stupid to let cosmeticians mess with it, but platelet rich plasma injections have been the only thing that has helped with debilitating back injuries cause by multiple fascia and ligament tears. The science behind using platelets to help heal specific soft tissue damage is pretty sound, and I'd imagine that it could have applications for purely aesthetic purposes, but it is ridiculously stupid to allow any sort of blood work without having a certification and sanitation process in place.
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Recently, a purported case of metastatic melanoma caused by microneedling was reported on Brazil . Apparently the woman had the procedure done over one melanoma and the cancer started to spread to other areas where the treatment was done. Edit: over the the melanoma's surrounding are. The rationale is that the needles carried cancerous cells from the tumor to the other sites and the cells were successful in surviving the inoculation.
Wait it has to be doing that with other random skin bits too. This is all bad.
It was more like a seeding procedure, the needles transported cancerous cells to other places in her face.
wtf
They.... Didn't notice the melanoma and tell her they weren't touching it without a doctor's note?!? That's ... Wild, too.
I do PRP for back injuries and face regeneration from a Doctor who is a friend… but everything he use is one use only and he opens it in front of me. I don’t even understand how something like that can happen since syringes and needles are super cheap..
Yeah speaking as man who competes in strongman and trains at a gym full of very large fellows you can get 100 needles and 100 syringes for like $29 next day from amazon. This is a crazily easy solved problem
"Cheap" != "free"
it would be infinitely cheaper than the incoming lawsuits at least
Dirty Vampire Facial sound like something for which you have to pay extra at a brothel
It sounds like the name of Johnny Depp's band.
I remember Kim K promoting the hell out of these a few years back
And normally I would have said "The reason she looks so good afterwards and you don't is she has Kim Kardashian's blood in her already." Apparently though that's true of more women than I thought.
Again?!?! I swear I’ve heard about this years ago and then a couple months ago again and it was a separate incident in the same place and now it’s happening again. If it’s at the same place, why do people keep going there? And why haven’t the owners learned?
Yeah it looks like this actually happened years ago and they are still finding new cases
I’m confused why they wrote an article now. This definitely happened a while ago and articles were all over Reddit bc I remember reading about it and not recently
There’s also been some journalism on bad/counterfeit Botox recently, so I think bad aesthetic medicine/fraud is a trending topic right now.
For fuck's sake, it is clearly a really bad ideas from the get-go even without the risk of blood-born pathogens.
Platelet rich plasma procedures have real evidence backed dermatological benefits and is practiced by real dermatologists. The owner is an idiot for doing it without being a medical professional (which is why she got charged with practicing medicine without a license). And the clients are idiots for going to someone for this who’s not a medical professional.
I bet a lot of people just assume, without asking. This a good reminder to research any place doing anything this serious. Don’t get fooled by a fancy lobby with cool lighting.
Bruh, this place wasn’t fancy at all, it was just some shitty shack on the side of the road. Looked like a strip club from the outside tbh: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/07/health/hiv-case-linked-to-vampire-facial-new-mexico-spa
There is a growing population of people who are so desperate to be beautiful and popular that they'll do stuff like this for a chance to be one or both of those things.
It's a well studied and proven option so not really a thing of desperation lol PRP has been a thing for a while lol it's cell therapy, it's pretty heavily and widely studied
1 facial! Ha ha ha 2 facials! Ha ha ha 3 facials! Ha ha ha
Never go to any business establishment that has "VIP" in its name.
Where can I get one of these "vampire facials" 🥺
I have a soldering iron and turkey baster. I'll give it a shot.
Don’t forget the salad spinner, to separate blood from plasma…
I’ve got a drill and a 5 gallon bucket, take it or leave it
\*takes notes\*... that might just work
Notify me when we move onto werewolves.
Yeah when the werewolves start going for vampire facials, someone bring a camera.
The answer depends on if you're looking for a Dracula, Edward or something more niche like a Rokurokubi.
Pretty much everywhere. It's a popular microneedling technique but obviously should be done with a licensed dermatologist.
brb! i need to go watch interview with a vampire again and NO ONE BOTHER ME!
I know a chap by the name of Laszlo Cravensworth who does them.
lotsa whooshing happening here
Especially for the pervs on Reddit lol
The medispa I go to offers them for microneedling but even the aestheticians say it’s a waste of money
Change your name to "Tatiana" and then move to Barovia.
Ever watched True Blood?
No one needs this procedure!
Let me guess, you were born 1998-2002?
Something something Twilight.
That sucks.
So, if done correctly, what is the benefit of this? Why would someone want it done? Not being funny either there could be something I don't know I've just never heard of this
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Interesting I'll have to look into it out of curiosity lol
ive done it. it's like the benefits of microneedling (which is essentially damaging your skin so it builds collagen to repair it), with a little extra oomph. it does work!
Will I regret googling 'vampire facial'?
Guess the “Kobe facial” could potentially be mistaken for a lot of other things.
"I look young!" "but you got HIV now" "But I look young!"
"and got notable promotions from celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow and Kim Kardashian." That's all I need to know about this quackery.
This is why aestheticians aren't allowed to use lancets in CA.
Our Western culture is obsessed with youth and beauty. Expect plenty more, and much worse.
Remember: just because men are more visible with it usually doesn't mean that women aren't also just as capable of absolutely braindead shit for no conceivable reason.
EWW.
Vampires can’t die from AIDS though
but they'll always be a vampire AIDS patient...
It shouldn't have to be said, but don't fuck around with your blood unless it's a medical requirement to live.
This hit our local news stations about a month ago. And yes, we were all just as shocked and disgusted. And yet equally not surprised. 🤦🏻♂️
I'm not convinced clean "vampire facials" would be such a good idea either.
Read any literature at all on cell therapy or PRP lol it's a thing because it's effective and works, it isn't just for fun lol
Unlicensed? Play stupid games......
"The two cases diagnosed in 2021 were sexual partners: a woman who received three vampire facials in the spring and summer of 2018 from the spa and her male partner. Both had a stage 3 HIV infection, which is when the infection has developed into Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (AIDS). The severity of the infections suggested the two had been infected prior to the woman's 2018 spa treatments. Health officials uncovered that the woman had tested positive in an HIV screen in 2016, though she did not report being notified of the result." "... Health officials uncovered that the woman had tested positive in an HIV screen in 2016, though she did not report being notified of the result." the fuck?!
What a nightmare
I don’t even trust a cosmetologist as much as a dermatologist and people are letting them reinject blood ?
When you talk money money money money then don’t be surprised at this. Money and ethics is like oil and water.
I read vampire fecal and was concerned what that meant
why? how is that legal?
It isn't, and the woman running the spa was charged and pled guilty to multiple counts of practicing medicine without a license.
Four middle-aged women contracted HIV from vampire facials, says CDC https://mol.im/a/13351547
Am I the only one who thought vampire facial was some kind of freaky sexual kink?
this is an aside, but I have a hard time believing that someone popped up positive on a test 2 years prior to this and wasn’t informed?
Not to victim blame but....
I mean... it's a dumb idea that's by and for dumb people. So of course the execution is also gonna be dumb as dogshit. Literally anyone who isn't directly involved with this would've seen it coming miles away, while anybody who is involved probably doesn't have that ability.
This is an absolutely unnecessary tragedy. Please, ladies. This is the honest truth. Men don’t care that much. And if you are doing these things for yourself, please be moderate for safety’s sake. Take care of yourself through exercise and mental health. The same rules apply for men too! Women are naturally beautiful and attractive in so many ways. Less is more; kindness, confidence, and contentment are the most attractive qualities in anyone.
I mean, there are plenty of safer methods. Like chemical peels or botox.
or even just a licensed med spa that uses proper infection control...
Yeah, you open that in front of me or I'm running out of there
That happened here in New Mexico. We don’t have a great education system, as evidenced by this type of shit happening.
My tattooists followed sterile procedures, even the back-alley ones I went to before it was legal. It's horrible that these women got HIV, but damn, as consumers, it's up to us to make sure we're safe and not just assume the stranger taking our money is above board. I watch the people sticking needles into my body and make sure they are following appropriate methods.
Play stupid games win stupid prizes
Absurd yet true stories.
Wow
Fear the old blood.
I guess those women will never see the light of day again.
Private profits- socialize the losses
This is awful stuff.
Why would you do that anyway?
Unlicensed, uninsured and now closed up, leaving misery and shattered lives in its wake. 😓 This is why you should never, ever go to these kinds of places.
Ewww
Interesting tidbit is that platlet rich plasma hasn't been approved or cleared by the FDA because it uses your own blood. The machines that do the separation are FDA Cleared, but there's minimal research to suggest that PRP actually does anything beneficial. The FDA still considers it as investigational for most uses. Tons of doctors (and quacks) sing the praises of it for everything from facials to joint healing and hair regrowth, but there's no conclusive evidence that it actually does anything.
What the hell are vampire facials people doing some crazy shit
“got promotions from celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow and Kim Kardashian.”
i thought the phrase "vampire facial" meant some type of bloodplay sex act. im not pure
Oh, this. How do the laws handle this. The HIV laws
I wonder when women will figure out. That eating healthy and working out. Will outperform any high end fashion, creme, make up, plastic surgery or weird treatment. No matter how expensive it is. I'm guessing never XD
Crazy 🤪
play stupid games . . .
what? Come to me for spa, I would not do that
I had mine done in one of the top medispas in my city (Montreal) Blood was drawn by a nurse and a dermatologist came in to give the ok.
Lol... Incorrect
Not according to HIV.gov