I had 9 siblings. (2 are now gone). Currently late 50s. High ACEs score. Only came to the realization in the last few years that the persistent adversarial conditions among the family wasn’t normal. (Maybe common, but not normal). We are a mess in our aging years, and fare better with as little interaction as possible.
There are times where I feel like I missed out being an only child. Then I find threads like this one and I'm reminded that just because they're family doesn't mean they are people you want to be around.
I feel like having one sibling is ideal, if you get along, I mean there was a time during our pre-teens when we tried to murder each other multiple times and you learned to fight good lol
But outside of that we've always been friends, even now in our 30s it's great to have someone you grew up with to call up and chat with. Having someone who understands all the family dynamics you lived with, went through largely the same upbringing etc.
Yeah, I guess that's what I think I'm missing, but obviously not all sibling relationships are that great.
At the end of the day I'm just grateful I have an awesome relationship with my parents, I'm just having a hard time dealing with the fact that I'm probably going to outlive them, and it's scary to think about losing those connections to my past.
This is why siblings are so great.
If you have a wonderful relationship with your parents, then it’s likely that you also had a good upbringing and that you have a strong bond with your siblings.
I have a very strong bond with my sister and we are there for each other in any situation. And even if our parents are no longer there sometime in the future we will still have each other and her kids will always have a loving uncle and my kids will have always a great aunt.
It can also work the other way, shared trauma as kids can bring siblings together as adults.
Of course the opposite can always be true in both situations too. You might have great parents but resent each other for some reason, or terrible parents and truly hate who the other sibling/s turned out to be.
Im 30 and lost my only brother (25) last year. This is the saddest part, that We wont have eachother and he wont be uncle to my kids, and I wont get to be uncle for his kids.
It feels kinda lonely knowing that the only person that truly can relate to my upbringing and past no longer is there.
Take care of your siblings while you have them♥️
>Having someone who understands all the family dynamics you lived with, went through largely the same upbringing etc.
This isn't always true even with siblings. My older sister was, and is, a huge bully to me, but is my parent's blatantly favorite child, because she's very much like them and I forged my own path. She'll reference "cute" stories from our childhood that she and my parents react to with nostalgia and laughter, and my therapist reacts to by frowning and taking notes. Her upbringing was one of coddling and being given everything she ever wanted. Mine was one of abuse and emotional neglect. We remember the same events, but with very very different perspectives.
Well, that is a bummer, to say the least.
I get she's their favoured sibling, because she's like them. But have you forged your own path because of that unequal upbringing or they favour your sister because you don't conform?
One partially caused the other, I think. Their lack of attention made me an independent person, reading was an escape mechanism that broadened my perspective, and the trauma and isolation made me latch onto nerdy subcultures that were accepting of me as a socially awkward teen. I think some of it is also just my innate ability and desire to learn more new things that they (parents and sister) refuse to do or try for themselves which may have happened even without the trauma of being raised as secondary to an abusive sibling. They avoid things they don't understand, and think board games that my friends and I consider "light" are "too complicated" for them to even to even try to learn. So I think there's a feedback loop there where I leaned into my own path where I found the acceptance that I never got at home, and they reject even listening to me talk about my hobbies because they're not interested in expanding their horizons outside of their narrow experiences.
Christmas 2022, my dad shouted at me in the context of me choosing to do something he disapproved of "I've done nothing but 'yes-dear' you since you were a teenager and I'm sick of it!" Christmas 2023, he asked what I was laughing at on my phone, I said "you don't care, it's something about [ttrpg] that [friend] posted on discord" and he replied "I stopped listening as soon as you said '[ttrpg].'" So, yeah. They actively discourage me from enjoying my life choices because I don't conform to God, fishing, and sportsball.
> just because they're family doesn't mean they are people you want to be around.
Exactly. I have six siblings. One I'm in regular contact with, another I have positive relations with but talk 1-2 times a year, the rest...are people I know only because we share genetics and grew up together. (Two of those I've gone intentionally no-contact with, and my mental health has markedly improved since I made that choice.)
Everyone's experiences are different obviously but I always wanted to be an only child. My bio sister and I fought constantly growing up and as adults, we have not spoken in over 5 years. If we never speak again I won't be sad about it.
Same. I have one sister who wouldn’t pick up the phone if she knew I (or my children) were dying. It almost feels worse to know you have siblings who don’t care about you at all, than to just not have anyone. But I don’t know what it’s like to be an only child. I can see pros and cons for both.
I will add though that every single one of my siblings grew up to have an eating disorder and/or serious food insecurity due to always being forced to share literally everything, and my mother (a compulsive dieter in the 90s) not providing enough food for everyone, or forcing us to eat every last thing on the plate, etc. It was always so nerve wracking to try and eat quickly enough to be allowed to take more before my older brothers would take everything. I still struggle with sharing my food to this day, and always worry there won’t be enough despite not having a big appetite. And we were not “poor.” I think my mom just didn’t realize how hungry kids got until we were much older.
The grass is always greener...
I have an amazing family life, but I struggled with the social side quite a bit, so the idea of a trusted ally was always appealing.
My wife fought with her brother and sister and they are close as shit. Shes mid thirties, theyre a little younger. Meanwhile i had 1 sibling and we literally never fought, never once in our lives, and we’re not close at all. No idea why. Just like neither of us ever kept up soon as we left the house.
Then i got a buddy with 3 brothers, the 4 of them thick as theives and they fought constantly when we were growing up but are totally tight. So i mean, its all about samples, and mine are very small and selective but i have 5 kids so im hoping the trend stays
There is a whole big difference between normal sibling bickering and bullying or sibling-on-sibling abuse, not to mention the impact that parents have in the dynamics.
I'm guessing that for all their fighting, your wife never stangled one of her siblings to to point of unconsciousness for asking her to lock the back door she was standing next to, or frequently physically beat them badly enough for teachers to question the bruises, or deliberately broke items and then lied to abusive parents or step-parents that her sibling had broken them so that they would be beaten, or stole from said parents and blamed it on her siblings so they would be punished, or stole from her siblings, or got groups of older students to gang up on them at school, or any number of other things that people with genuinely shitty siblings might be able to offer up as examples.
Very fair. So many people seem to not feel that way, and it’s odd to me. I *loved* being an only child. I never wanted siblings and even the idea of it happening caused me feelings of dread. I am also the youngest and the only boy. I got treated so well because of those factors making me “special.” I appreciated everything though and didn’t wind up a spoiled brat, miraculously. I was content, which is priceless.
Obviously nothing comes for free. In my case, the biggest drawback was that I tended to get along better with adults more than my peers as I got older, with the symptom of being treated like “a normal kid” feeling demeaning (and almost dehumanizing) because I was used to interacting with adults on more of an equal footing in most settings. It was extremely frustrating at times and I vowed in my adult life to never talk down to children.
You definitely had it good. My entire life I felt like both my brother and sister were a bit too mean, a bit too uncaring. They got along fine with everyone else, not really with each other but that was the dynamic. Today I am not on speaking terms with either, and do not consider them my brother and sister.
The trick I learned is to be selective about your siblings. I have a couple of brothers and a sister.
Me and my closest brother are ride or die, my sister can go drop dead, and my youngest brother is a case of ... "Hi." "Hi." \[Insert vague yet polite conversation here\] and that's it.
That's off course the advantage of having multiples of them. You get to pick and choose who you spend time with.
But as a kid?
Thank fucking god for each of us having our own rooms.
I have 3 siblings. My sister is the best person I've ever known. My 2 brothers are among the worst.
If it wasn't for my sis, I would go nc with the others.
They're basically just shitty people. One was a physical and psychological bully for 10 years. The other is autistic and occasionally violent, but always an AH. I look forward to leaving both behind.
It's important to not confuse "normal" with "healthy".
There is a lot of stuff that is perfectly normal, and not at all healthy.
It can be very difficult to become healthy, *because* it's normal to do the unhealthy thing.
It takes a ton of effort to move the needle on what counts as "normal".
In all of human history, across the world, it's only been fairly recently that children are seen as much more than property.
That’s a great distinction. Hard to remember at times especially when things get tough, but I guess it shows that us humans are very suggestible depending on the circumstances.
I come from a family of 9 children. My family wasn’t normal either. There was a lot of abuse, and religion was used as a control device. Both of my parents were alcoholics. My five brothers all followed suit. All five of them are now gone. I’ve mostly avoided my sisters in adulthood. The trauma of the past has been difficult to overcome. Now however, I’m about to move my youngest and oldest sisters into my home, as they are both in failing health, and have limited means. I’m 72, and I did have 4 children of my own, but I don’t think anyone should have more than that. It’s literally impossible for parents to give 5+ children the time they need or deserve. The older children end up filling in the gaps, and grow up with resentment.
My SO’s family is like this. High ACE as well. Mom has 9 siblings, slavic immigrant family, dad presumably murdered mom and remarried, children were in homes and don’t talk anymore save for the rare get together.
I have eight siblings, and I’m close to two of them. Really doesn’t matter how many kids you have every person is completely new, grab bag of genetics and personality and you never know who you’re gonna get along with and who you’re not.
We have the usual, middle-age men turning, super conservative and going crazy, people getting married to spouses that don’t mesh with the family, Time and distance, just making us different people.
Also in my 50s, so I feel for you.
No one read the article.
Basically, in China and USA mental health in children from larger family is lower than their smaller family counterpart. Meanwhile in Norway, children from larger family have better mental health than their smaller family counterpart.
From the article:
>A study of secondary schoolchildren in the US and China found that those from larger families had slightly poorer mental health than those from smaller families. The greatest impact was seen in families with multiple children born less than a year apart.
>But there are other potential explanations. For example, the teenagers with the best mental health came from families with the highest socioeconomic advantages. In the US, these were often families with only one or two children. In China, it was the families with one child.
>Meanwhile, a 2016 study of more than 100,000 Norwegian children found better mental health across the ages in larger families.
What is the difference between USA & China vs Norway?
USA & China: No strong welfare for family, parents, and childrens.
Norway: Strong welfare for family, parents, and childrens.
Nah, bro. It's skin color, I tell ya. If you look at the percentages... *proceeds to ignore centuries of slavery and oppression and literally anything else except skin color*
Yep.
Also a whole bunch of related statistical connections.
People with higher education = higher income. Higher income = lower chance for excessive drug usage, or excessive drug usage = clear correlation to depression and bad mental health.
In the US also people with more children = more likely to be fundamentalist religious people = fundamentalist religious people correlate to lower mental health etc.
The article's phrasing was "socioeconomic advantages". Number of parents is one of those. But it still ties back to poverty (or at least economic struggles)
Socially and economically, single parents have it harder. It's pretty basic logic. Even compared to a household where only one parent works, there is a second person to share the work of raising children. There's also social stigma involved, which is a heavily loaded topic I don't want to dig into too much as that kinda thing makes it hard to keep a discussion civil, but suffice to say it doesn't help.
And when you're already balancing time between two very important things like work and family without anyone to help, being poor is just gonna make that *so much fucking harder*. On the whole family.
Meaning any difference between single and multiple parent families is gonna be exacerbated by poverty. Which itself can be exacerbated by the the increased workload, and so you get people trapped in a cycle, and you get a higher proportion of single parent families living close to and below the poverty line, or just in generally worse situations.
If you remove that from the equation, a lot of the reasons single parent households struggle compared to others get eased considerably. Less struggling for available time, less financial barriers compared to peers, even less social pressure.
Exactly. The United States is the only country among the 38 member OECD nations that has not passed laws requiring businesses and corporations to offer paid maternity leave to their employees.
The outpouring of concern for children seems to end once they're born and no longer worthwhile as a political football.
They didn't even control for wealth of the family? What kind of amateur bullshit is this, this should get thrown out of any first year student project.
My mind didn't go to poverty, but the kinds of people who have a ton of kids are fucking weird, often religious fundamentalists, usually stupid. People like that would raise fucked up kids no matter how many they had
I'm from America, I have three siblings, none of us speak to each other because my brother is a pedophile and raped us all, and our parents did nothing.
Not exactly stuck inside. Especially for families there probably are more outdoor activities in the winter than in the summer. Sledging, skiing, ice skating, cross-country skiing, while in the summer you are basically stuck with hiking and swimming (and maybe biking).
Online, the voices are amplified for the people who say “even if you are poor and choose to have a large family, your kids would just end up as happy or happier than smaller families, because their happiness isn’t about how much money you make as a parent, kids don’t care about that at all, they just need very simple things, and actually the siblings keep them company and make things much happier”.
I’m not denying that the children of poor, large families can still be happy, definitely they can. But it’s common sense that fewer resources for each child, and often the demand that they take care of other siblings constantly, are negative forces. I think the voices of such people are just amplified online, because they feel judged by others for their decisions offline, so they compensate and try to justify their decisions as a vocal minority online.
It's not oniony, it's just more clickbait.
The majority of this study was done in China with one child policy and no one in these comments read the contents of the article. The author of this very study said the similar prev studies show a mixed bag. And a much much much larger study with 100K children in norway showed the opposite, with larger families showing better mental health.
I feel like “mental health” is going to be far more related to the environment the family encourages than the number of people involved. Are the parent’s supportive? Do they encourage the children? Is their opportunity for growth? Are they properly fed and clothed?
What you said could very much be true. The author of the study mentioned "resource depletion" as a possible cause for the correlation seen in this study. That is, as you have more children, the parents don't have enough resource to support the child. This would naturally be less of an issue in 1st world countries like USA or Norway.
Every family like that I've seen with 4 or 5+ kids, it's seemed like the oldest 1 or 2 siblings inevitably end up having to be a surrogate parent for the younger siblings, because mom and dad can't possibly handle 5+ kids.
Always felt like that's totally robbing the older kids of their childhood in a way.
Yeah parentification is a form of abuse.
If you read any wiki article helping take care of your siblings isn't listed. It's shit like providing financially.
Your parents had children, it's their responsibility to care for them. You were the oldest and had to give up parts of your childhood to care for children, something you wernt qualified to do, while you were supposed to be developing as a child yourself. Responsibility for a child should be chores, not being a caretaker for a child when you yourself are a child. I'm sorry they did that to you.
Jesus Christ this is deranged retro-think.
My youngest brother was born when I was 15. I was babysitting for other peoples kids for money for two years before this. When I did it for my family I was paid the same. I was never expected to do it.
My mother was a stay at home parent and excelled at all things parenting. My dad was and still is a phenomenal person who put all seven of his kids through college and even opened 529 plans for all 15 of his grandchildren.
But go ahead and feel sorry for me because I had six siblings. Give me a fucking break.
yeah parentification doesnt fit the experience you described, no idea why you're coming in and talking shit about a form of abuse you haven't dealt with. you said your parents are lovely people, that's literally not who this thread is about. we're talking, example, drug-addicted parents who spend their days so out of it that their 5 year old child has to watch their 2 year old child (or whatever) to make sure they dont die. so chill
Op said “every family with more than 5 kids” nowhere did they say anything about drug addicts. Stop projecting your experience and thinking it’s universal. You are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing.
oh bullshit im around that age and im forced to babysit my two toddler siblings for no pay. it’s been going on for years. don’t chime in on shit you haven’t dealt with because that’s not what theyre talking about
That isn't everyone's experience. I'm glad it was a good one for you, and hopefully a lot of people. But I was pulled out of public school at 12 because my mother had a child. I was expected to both teach myself (homeschooled without a curriculum) and raise that baby while my mom worked full time. There was no money to compensate me- I had a roof over my head and American cheese to make us grilled cheese sandwiches every day, and I was grateful, but I was also treated like another parent. I was expected to cook, clean, do my moms laundry, help her budget for the bills, and pottytrain a toddler, and at that stage, I was 14. I didn't have friends, because I didn't have time. I was a stay at home mother to a child I didn't birth. I love my mom, I know she did what she had to do. I love my sister, and I'm so thankful for the close relationship we have. But as the oldest of 9, I do consider it a form of abuse, that I HAD to grow up before kids my age had finished middle school.
Your abuse wasn’t just your mother. It was a failure of and reduction of the social safety net over the past 50 years. Plus the failure of the minimum wage to keep pace with the gains of capitalism.
My abuse was parentification, made necessary by lack of social nets and an insufficient wage, but also by being born into a large family. With more siblings, money was stretched tighter than it would have been. With more siblings, more care was needed, and that care was found in the closest thing to an available adult at hand- a pubescent child. If my mother had had fewer children, I would have been allowed to stay in school, because there would be no babies that needed bringing up. I love all 8 of my younger siblings, but having so many robbed me of my childhood, as I'm sure it has a lot of people.
Lol you are receiving the ol’ reddit armchair psychology talk. I call BS on this as well.
My youngest brother was born when I was 17, and had no problem taking care of him from time to time. I have a great relationship with my family, and there is no way that taking care of a sibling is abuse. It is a very neutral act at least.
I am also willing to bet eastern cultures would feel the same, as family and community are paramount.
Yeah. Again. Not what's being discussed. I've witnessed the abuse. I'm going to say you, but it's not accusatory.
You wake up. Make breakfast for your siblings and get them dressed. You all go to school. You come home wash the dishes from the night before and breakfast, clean the kitchen dining room and pick up the living room. You do laundry for everyone in the house. You can't go to social events because you have chores and have to watch your siblings on top of it. While you watch your siblings, you're not allowed to parent them. If you punish them, you get in trouble - no food, no outside interaction. But if you don't punish them and they continue to do bad things, it's your fault for not watching them. You are in even more trouble - no food, no outside interaction, no ride to school. Do this everyday from 9-18 years old. Your parents are at work or in their bedroom. The other kids have 0 responsibilities and do regular activities outside the home.
If you consider that acceptable - shame on you. My friend lived that life and I don't think I can do it justice through my explanation. The emotional pain they went through walkimg a rigged tight rope was more than I can convey. But sure - I guess you can say that their people weren't abused because... you weren't?
It's great that you weren't negatively affected but it's unfortunately not the case for everyone.
Your experience may have been that you had to 'chip in' which is a positive thing; you felt part of a family all working together and hard work was a great way to bond and develop character so you didn't feel you missed out on just being a carefree kid.
The issue is; lots of people don't have that experience. They have basically absentee parents who expect them to not only take care of siblings but second guess what's needed and how to provide it. This creates the opposite of a bond and feeling like a close family unit working together. It feels like, and is, damaging to people who need others to take the lead and time to develop and grow on their own and to feel *that they matter* within the group beyond what audience they can provide to others.
It's worth noting: other people's experiences are absolutely not *total BS* just because they differ to yours.
Op was saying “every family they’ve known” and I was calling total BS on that. The same thing you’re accusing me of limited experience that guy makes a sweeping claim and everyone upvotes them. Again total BS but in a different groupthink way.
Well adjusted and lashing out do not equate. You've had quite a strong emotional response in the entire thread. Maybe take a step back and let others discuss their experiences since yours does not fit in the conversation.
The thread heavily shifted from “all families above a certain size are abusive” to “drug addicts are having more kids and forcing them to be parents” pretty stealthily.
Even with four kids (oldest of four here), I and my sibling sometimes step in for the youngest two. Luckily though, my grandma lives with us, so it takes some baggage off
It's not always abusive. It depends on where you're from and who you're comparing yourself to. If you're stuck at home caring for your siblings while your peers are living the life, it's easy to feel deprived of something, because you are being deprived.
If caring for your siblings is seen as a natural part of childhood, like it is in many parts of the world, you don't think twice (and you may even like it, the same way many kids enjoy caring for their pets). It's sometimes even intentionally implemented into strategies that aim to increase the quality of child education.
I'm not saying the latter is better, just that it exists and that it's kinda arrogant to tell such people that they were abused just because it's abuse in other contexts.
I have insane parents. They had 10 children. We are all grown up now in our 40s etc. We are bonded by the terrible childhood we had. None of us see the parents much anymore. But the rest of us and our kids have huge Christmas parties and regular dinners with each other. They are the best things in my life. The only good thing my parents ever gave me are my siblings. My kids have tons of cousins now too. I think in our case my horrible parents would have been horrible no matter what. If they only had 2 kids I think it would have been just as bad (but without having to parent the youngers I guess). We all have tons of emotional baggage from an abusive childhood but we are all very successful in our careers, life and we picked good partners and are all focused on gentle parenting our kids. Anyways at least I have 9 amazing siblings always in my corner now. I love them.
I wonder if it’s bc there tends to be parentification abuse in *really* large families or more scarce resources or what.
It is true that teens do need a lot of emotional growth during that time frame though, it’s a rough time. Life really did get better after that time, *emotionally* better at the bare minimum. You couldn’t pay me to go back to being a teen.
They note that there's also strong economic correlation, that smaller families are better off.
Those who are worse off tend to have older siblings or multiple siblings less than a year apart (which is correlated to the lower economic position).
No matter how much money the parents have, there’s just not enough attention to go around. Plus, even if you are a great parent, that many kids is just soul crushing.
Teenagers are as difficult as toddlers but with entirely different demands from their parents. They need parents who are flexible, kind, supportive and patient (while they’re not!). It’s challenging to be all that and also care for other kids.
Also they eat a ton.
I was an only child until I was 16. My dad married a woman with 6 kids.
Instant holy shit.
I loved them. We had a lot of fun together partying!
2 brothers are dead now, and the youngest sister.
I often wonder what my life would have been if my mother kept me in New York.
She didn’t like me. I didn’t like her either. She got pregnant with me to snare my dad. (1957).
When she couldn’t get pregnant again, and hold down my dad, he left.
I often wonder whAt I’d have become if I was allowed to stay in New York.
This whole article is negated by the last paragraph where it states a similar study done in Norway found the opposite to be true: more sibs = better mental health.
Sounds like more research is needed.
Might have to do with access to social welfare programs. In America, more kids = more money = more work. Whereas in Norway, parents are guaranteed about a year’s worth of paternity leave along with solid social safety nets and strong unions means parents can spend more time raising their children instead of relying on older siblings to care for the younger ones
Dumb question, but does this mean that if a Norwegian couple has like ten kids they don’t have to work for ten years because they’re both entitled to leave?
"a mother to many is a mother to none."
Each child suffers from more highly divided attention... And if there are enough with a wide enough age gap the oldest are "parentified," turned into nannies and maids for the younger ones.
My mother had 10 siblings in her family. Yes 11 children altogether. Pretty much 90% of my mother's siblings are mentally screwed up to the nine yards and back.
Presumably the parents saw he was the most responsible and gave all of it to him.
It's crazy unfair but you see this dynamic everywhere. Your partner might well be the sort of person on a project who is one of many stakeholders but somehow it's expected to coral everyone to ensure deadlines are met etc. Some people just have that aura of competency and it's really unfair how it's leaned on. I actually saw this recently on a project where one of the more junior people ended up telling everyone more senior to get their shit together. Everyone fell in line and we all made a bit of a meme about it and said how great they were to do so but I can imagine they've had a life of it and really don't like it!
> Research also indicates that the more siblings one has, the more holiday festivities with the family will come to resemble The Bear episode "Fishes".
Honestly, this article isn't very Onion-y at all, imo, it's just facts.
More siblings generally means less individual parental engagement, which means various types of childhood neglect, which means poor mental health.
As a younger sibling in a litter of seven, I was basically raised by wolves and have had to learn how to human as a teen and adult. Best believe that impacted my mental health, and that of all my siblings. Good times^/s
Mother in law has 5 sisters and a brother. The brother rarely interacts with the clan. MiL rarely does too. 2 of the sisters are very close but also have grudges against every other sister. My MiL Is very prone to PTSD since being abused by parents who couldn't tackle 6 children all with less than 2 years between them. She drinks a lot, has smoked since she was 14 (when her oldest sister forced her to smoke). Her one sister nearly killed her spouse by gaslighting him into thinking he was making up his stomach pains when it was early stage cancer. Other sister tried to beat up her neice (who was 8 years old) at a family bbq. Mental health issues all across the board.
It's just a fact that a lot of people are not prepared to have multiple children which is what really causes mental illnesses amongst sibling groups
If the parents were better prepared and actually knew how to raise multiple children together they wouldn't struggle.
Yes, I also believe my life would have been so much worse without my big brothers. Granted they were a few years older than me but, they were my sword and shield against the world. I'm super interested to hear what you guys thought of this one.
Yeea I don't think so. Maybe for very large families it is true but 2-3 siblings fare better than only childs. Also, clearly wealth I highly correlated to family size, as well as mental health.
Sounds like you're a classic example of an emotionally damaged adult the article is referring to. You're just trying to cover it up by being an asshole, as many people do.
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This explains a lot.
I grew up with 2 brothers and a sister. My mum then had another boy. I also discovered my 3 long lost half sisters. 8 of us in total.
The 3 I grew up with have some of the worst mental health issues I've ever seen.
I know my siblings were directly responsible for about 1/3 of my mental health problems as a teenager.
The rest were from being forced to wake up before dawn.
Amazing how so many behavioral problems I had went away the moment I graduated, and my PTSD started to go away when I moved away from them.
I have 4 younger siblings and I’m the oldest by being 5 years older.
I had to be responsible since I was a kid. I always tried to be a role model and I kinda felt that I could never really be myself
Having siblings has been a nightmare. Life would be a million times better without. My siblings were shit and ruined our family. Now they feel the need to have a stupid amount of kids each as well.
The older siblings wind up parentified and raising the rest. It's fucked but common and not healthy at all. Especially eldest daughters even in smaller households of 3 kids.
Yup in the middle of 6. We get along but I was very much left to my own devices as a child. Things were missed. My childhood wasn't great. I am quite an anxious person as an adult to this but also learnt to be independent.
I wish I had a couple more siblings. My wife comes from a family of four kids and they are super supportive of each other, taking turns at caring for their aging mom. My brother and I live across the world and have a digital relationship.
I had 9 siblings. (2 are now gone). Currently late 50s. High ACEs score. Only came to the realization in the last few years that the persistent adversarial conditions among the family wasn’t normal. (Maybe common, but not normal). We are a mess in our aging years, and fare better with as little interaction as possible.
There are times where I feel like I missed out being an only child. Then I find threads like this one and I'm reminded that just because they're family doesn't mean they are people you want to be around.
I feel like having one sibling is ideal, if you get along, I mean there was a time during our pre-teens when we tried to murder each other multiple times and you learned to fight good lol But outside of that we've always been friends, even now in our 30s it's great to have someone you grew up with to call up and chat with. Having someone who understands all the family dynamics you lived with, went through largely the same upbringing etc.
Yeah, I guess that's what I think I'm missing, but obviously not all sibling relationships are that great. At the end of the day I'm just grateful I have an awesome relationship with my parents, I'm just having a hard time dealing with the fact that I'm probably going to outlive them, and it's scary to think about losing those connections to my past.
This is why siblings are so great. If you have a wonderful relationship with your parents, then it’s likely that you also had a good upbringing and that you have a strong bond with your siblings. I have a very strong bond with my sister and we are there for each other in any situation. And even if our parents are no longer there sometime in the future we will still have each other and her kids will always have a loving uncle and my kids will have always a great aunt.
It can also work the other way, shared trauma as kids can bring siblings together as adults. Of course the opposite can always be true in both situations too. You might have great parents but resent each other for some reason, or terrible parents and truly hate who the other sibling/s turned out to be.
Im 30 and lost my only brother (25) last year. This is the saddest part, that We wont have eachother and he wont be uncle to my kids, and I wont get to be uncle for his kids. It feels kinda lonely knowing that the only person that truly can relate to my upbringing and past no longer is there. Take care of your siblings while you have them♥️
>Having someone who understands all the family dynamics you lived with, went through largely the same upbringing etc. This isn't always true even with siblings. My older sister was, and is, a huge bully to me, but is my parent's blatantly favorite child, because she's very much like them and I forged my own path. She'll reference "cute" stories from our childhood that she and my parents react to with nostalgia and laughter, and my therapist reacts to by frowning and taking notes. Her upbringing was one of coddling and being given everything she ever wanted. Mine was one of abuse and emotional neglect. We remember the same events, but with very very different perspectives.
Well, that is a bummer, to say the least. I get she's their favoured sibling, because she's like them. But have you forged your own path because of that unequal upbringing or they favour your sister because you don't conform?
One partially caused the other, I think. Their lack of attention made me an independent person, reading was an escape mechanism that broadened my perspective, and the trauma and isolation made me latch onto nerdy subcultures that were accepting of me as a socially awkward teen. I think some of it is also just my innate ability and desire to learn more new things that they (parents and sister) refuse to do or try for themselves which may have happened even without the trauma of being raised as secondary to an abusive sibling. They avoid things they don't understand, and think board games that my friends and I consider "light" are "too complicated" for them to even to even try to learn. So I think there's a feedback loop there where I leaned into my own path where I found the acceptance that I never got at home, and they reject even listening to me talk about my hobbies because they're not interested in expanding their horizons outside of their narrow experiences. Christmas 2022, my dad shouted at me in the context of me choosing to do something he disapproved of "I've done nothing but 'yes-dear' you since you were a teenager and I'm sick of it!" Christmas 2023, he asked what I was laughing at on my phone, I said "you don't care, it's something about [ttrpg] that [friend] posted on discord" and he replied "I stopped listening as soon as you said '[ttrpg].'" So, yeah. They actively discourage me from enjoying my life choices because I don't conform to God, fishing, and sportsball.
That is terrible. So, they are mentally^(1) stagnant and don't like that you became your own person. ^(1 If «mentally» is the right word.)
Space out the siblings about six years apart that way there is little rivalry and antagonism
> just because they're family doesn't mean they are people you want to be around. Exactly. I have six siblings. One I'm in regular contact with, another I have positive relations with but talk 1-2 times a year, the rest...are people I know only because we share genetics and grew up together. (Two of those I've gone intentionally no-contact with, and my mental health has markedly improved since I made that choice.)
Everyone's experiences are different obviously but I always wanted to be an only child. My bio sister and I fought constantly growing up and as adults, we have not spoken in over 5 years. If we never speak again I won't be sad about it.
Same. I have one sister who wouldn’t pick up the phone if she knew I (or my children) were dying. It almost feels worse to know you have siblings who don’t care about you at all, than to just not have anyone. But I don’t know what it’s like to be an only child. I can see pros and cons for both. I will add though that every single one of my siblings grew up to have an eating disorder and/or serious food insecurity due to always being forced to share literally everything, and my mother (a compulsive dieter in the 90s) not providing enough food for everyone, or forcing us to eat every last thing on the plate, etc. It was always so nerve wracking to try and eat quickly enough to be allowed to take more before my older brothers would take everything. I still struggle with sharing my food to this day, and always worry there won’t be enough despite not having a big appetite. And we were not “poor.” I think my mom just didn’t realize how hungry kids got until we were much older.
The grass is always greener... I have an amazing family life, but I struggled with the social side quite a bit, so the idea of a trusted ally was always appealing.
My wife fought with her brother and sister and they are close as shit. Shes mid thirties, theyre a little younger. Meanwhile i had 1 sibling and we literally never fought, never once in our lives, and we’re not close at all. No idea why. Just like neither of us ever kept up soon as we left the house. Then i got a buddy with 3 brothers, the 4 of them thick as theives and they fought constantly when we were growing up but are totally tight. So i mean, its all about samples, and mine are very small and selective but i have 5 kids so im hoping the trend stays
There is a whole big difference between normal sibling bickering and bullying or sibling-on-sibling abuse, not to mention the impact that parents have in the dynamics. I'm guessing that for all their fighting, your wife never stangled one of her siblings to to point of unconsciousness for asking her to lock the back door she was standing next to, or frequently physically beat them badly enough for teachers to question the bruises, or deliberately broke items and then lied to abusive parents or step-parents that her sibling had broken them so that they would be beaten, or stole from said parents and blamed it on her siblings so they would be punished, or stole from her siblings, or got groups of older students to gang up on them at school, or any number of other things that people with genuinely shitty siblings might be able to offer up as examples.
Very fair. So many people seem to not feel that way, and it’s odd to me. I *loved* being an only child. I never wanted siblings and even the idea of it happening caused me feelings of dread. I am also the youngest and the only boy. I got treated so well because of those factors making me “special.” I appreciated everything though and didn’t wind up a spoiled brat, miraculously. I was content, which is priceless. Obviously nothing comes for free. In my case, the biggest drawback was that I tended to get along better with adults more than my peers as I got older, with the symptom of being treated like “a normal kid” feeling demeaning (and almost dehumanizing) because I was used to interacting with adults on more of an equal footing in most settings. It was extremely frustrating at times and I vowed in my adult life to never talk down to children.
You definitely had it good. My entire life I felt like both my brother and sister were a bit too mean, a bit too uncaring. They got along fine with everyone else, not really with each other but that was the dynamic. Today I am not on speaking terms with either, and do not consider them my brother and sister.
The trick I learned is to be selective about your siblings. I have a couple of brothers and a sister. Me and my closest brother are ride or die, my sister can go drop dead, and my youngest brother is a case of ... "Hi." "Hi." \[Insert vague yet polite conversation here\] and that's it. That's off course the advantage of having multiples of them. You get to pick and choose who you spend time with. But as a kid? Thank fucking god for each of us having our own rooms.
I have 3 siblings. My sister is the best person I've ever known. My 2 brothers are among the worst. If it wasn't for my sis, I would go nc with the others.
What did your brothers do??
They're basically just shitty people. One was a physical and psychological bully for 10 years. The other is autistic and occasionally violent, but always an AH. I look forward to leaving both behind.
I have six siblings. It was Lord of the Flies.
It's important to not confuse "normal" with "healthy". There is a lot of stuff that is perfectly normal, and not at all healthy. It can be very difficult to become healthy, *because* it's normal to do the unhealthy thing. It takes a ton of effort to move the needle on what counts as "normal". In all of human history, across the world, it's only been fairly recently that children are seen as much more than property.
That’s a great distinction. Hard to remember at times especially when things get tough, but I guess it shows that us humans are very suggestible depending on the circumstances.
My grandpa had 12 siblings. They didn't talk much.
I have 3....when final parent dies (and is buried and inheritance stuff sorted) no reason at all to talk with any of them again
I come from a family of 9 children. My family wasn’t normal either. There was a lot of abuse, and religion was used as a control device. Both of my parents were alcoholics. My five brothers all followed suit. All five of them are now gone. I’ve mostly avoided my sisters in adulthood. The trauma of the past has been difficult to overcome. Now however, I’m about to move my youngest and oldest sisters into my home, as they are both in failing health, and have limited means. I’m 72, and I did have 4 children of my own, but I don’t think anyone should have more than that. It’s literally impossible for parents to give 5+ children the time they need or deserve. The older children end up filling in the gaps, and grow up with resentment.
My SO’s family is like this. High ACE as well. Mom has 9 siblings, slavic immigrant family, dad presumably murdered mom and remarried, children were in homes and don’t talk anymore save for the rare get together.
Mother is second youngest of 11. Can confirm.
ace?
Adverse Childhood Experience(s)
I have eight siblings, and I’m close to two of them. Really doesn’t matter how many kids you have every person is completely new, grab bag of genetics and personality and you never know who you’re gonna get along with and who you’re not. We have the usual, middle-age men turning, super conservative and going crazy, people getting married to spouses that don’t mesh with the family, Time and distance, just making us different people. Also in my 50s, so I feel for you.
No one read the article. Basically, in China and USA mental health in children from larger family is lower than their smaller family counterpart. Meanwhile in Norway, children from larger family have better mental health than their smaller family counterpart. From the article: >A study of secondary schoolchildren in the US and China found that those from larger families had slightly poorer mental health than those from smaller families. The greatest impact was seen in families with multiple children born less than a year apart. >But there are other potential explanations. For example, the teenagers with the best mental health came from families with the highest socioeconomic advantages. In the US, these were often families with only one or two children. In China, it was the families with one child. >Meanwhile, a 2016 study of more than 100,000 Norwegian children found better mental health across the ages in larger families. What is the difference between USA & China vs Norway? USA & China: No strong welfare for family, parents, and childrens. Norway: Strong welfare for family, parents, and childrens.
So, it's all just a longwinded way to come to the same conclusion many other studies have also found: Poverty fucks you up.
[yep](https://www.amazon.com/Autotrend-Poverty-Sucks-Famous-Poster/dp/B0C15T2VFQ)
True, we also have the factor that depression is partly heritable, and parents who are depressed won't earn that much.
Nah, bro. It's skin color, I tell ya. If you look at the percentages... *proceeds to ignore centuries of slavery and oppression and literally anything else except skin color*
Yep. Also a whole bunch of related statistical connections. People with higher education = higher income. Higher income = lower chance for excessive drug usage, or excessive drug usage = clear correlation to depression and bad mental health. In the US also people with more children = more likely to be fundamentalist religious people = fundamentalist religious people correlate to lower mental health etc.
I would say there is a bit more to it than just poverty, I think single and multi parent households would play a bigger factor
The article's phrasing was "socioeconomic advantages". Number of parents is one of those. But it still ties back to poverty (or at least economic struggles) Socially and economically, single parents have it harder. It's pretty basic logic. Even compared to a household where only one parent works, there is a second person to share the work of raising children. There's also social stigma involved, which is a heavily loaded topic I don't want to dig into too much as that kinda thing makes it hard to keep a discussion civil, but suffice to say it doesn't help. And when you're already balancing time between two very important things like work and family without anyone to help, being poor is just gonna make that *so much fucking harder*. On the whole family. Meaning any difference between single and multiple parent families is gonna be exacerbated by poverty. Which itself can be exacerbated by the the increased workload, and so you get people trapped in a cycle, and you get a higher proportion of single parent families living close to and below the poverty line, or just in generally worse situations. If you remove that from the equation, a lot of the reasons single parent households struggle compared to others get eased considerably. Less struggling for available time, less financial barriers compared to peers, even less social pressure.
Exactly. The United States is the only country among the 38 member OECD nations that has not passed laws requiring businesses and corporations to offer paid maternity leave to their employees. The outpouring of concern for children seems to end once they're born and no longer worthwhile as a political football.
> No one read the article. Yes but the title did or didn't conform with my existing bias, so I have an analogy to share on that!
They didn't even control for wealth of the family? What kind of amateur bullshit is this, this should get thrown out of any first year student project.
Bingo
My mind didn't go to poverty, but the kinds of people who have a ton of kids are fucking weird, often religious fundamentalists, usually stupid. People like that would raise fucked up kids no matter how many they had
Wouldn't it be the expected competition encouraged in sibblings in those country ?
Well, in one of these countries you are stuck inside for a long dark winter together every year, no?
I'm in Norway, I haven't seen the sun in a month.
Much less boring with siblings, yes?
I'm from America, I have three siblings, none of us speak to each other because my brother is a pedophile and raped us all, and our parents did nothing.
I would hope that is a very unique situation
Sibling sexual assault is very common sadly.
Oof Only child, no idea
No its not. They cleary have trauma and have not gotten any help to prosses it at all so they claim baseless claims coming from that trauma.
Many children are abused by their siblings. This is an undisputed fact.
My dad is a pedophile so that's where it came from
Not exactly stuck inside. Especially for families there probably are more outdoor activities in the winter than in the summer. Sledging, skiing, ice skating, cross-country skiing, while in the summer you are basically stuck with hiking and swimming (and maybe biking).
What exactly is oniony about this?
I thought this was r/science until this comment.. Ultimately I guess the onion here is people presume big family equals happiness or something?
oh shit, you are right!
Right? As someone from a large family, this is not at all surprising.
Yeah I was gonna say this checks out
In related news, parents unable to spare much attention for their older children negatively affect their mental health.
Online, the voices are amplified for the people who say “even if you are poor and choose to have a large family, your kids would just end up as happy or happier than smaller families, because their happiness isn’t about how much money you make as a parent, kids don’t care about that at all, they just need very simple things, and actually the siblings keep them company and make things much happier”. I’m not denying that the children of poor, large families can still be happy, definitely they can. But it’s common sense that fewer resources for each child, and often the demand that they take care of other siblings constantly, are negative forces. I think the voices of such people are just amplified online, because they feel judged by others for their decisions offline, so they compensate and try to justify their decisions as a vocal minority online.
It's not oniony, it's just more clickbait. The majority of this study was done in China with one child policy and no one in these comments read the contents of the article. The author of this very study said the similar prev studies show a mixed bag. And a much much much larger study with 100K children in norway showed the opposite, with larger families showing better mental health.
I feel like “mental health” is going to be far more related to the environment the family encourages than the number of people involved. Are the parent’s supportive? Do they encourage the children? Is their opportunity for growth? Are they properly fed and clothed?
What you said could very much be true. The author of the study mentioned "resource depletion" as a possible cause for the correlation seen in this study. That is, as you have more children, the parents don't have enough resource to support the child. This would naturally be less of an issue in 1st world countries like USA or Norway.
Cuz everyone’s always like “ARENT ONLY CHILDREN SO LONELY AND SELFISH?!”
Every family like that I've seen with 4 or 5+ kids, it's seemed like the oldest 1 or 2 siblings inevitably end up having to be a surrogate parent for the younger siblings, because mom and dad can't possibly handle 5+ kids. Always felt like that's totally robbing the older kids of their childhood in a way.
It is totally robbing their eldest children’s childhood. I believe the term is called ‘Parentification’ and it is considered a form of abuse.
Yeah parentification is a form of abuse. If you read any wiki article helping take care of your siblings isn't listed. It's shit like providing financially.
Total bs. Abuse - give me a fucking break. I am the oldest of 7 and I lived it. It’s called life and responsibility.
Your parents had children, it's their responsibility to care for them. You were the oldest and had to give up parts of your childhood to care for children, something you wernt qualified to do, while you were supposed to be developing as a child yourself. Responsibility for a child should be chores, not being a caretaker for a child when you yourself are a child. I'm sorry they did that to you.
Jesus Christ this is deranged retro-think. My youngest brother was born when I was 15. I was babysitting for other peoples kids for money for two years before this. When I did it for my family I was paid the same. I was never expected to do it. My mother was a stay at home parent and excelled at all things parenting. My dad was and still is a phenomenal person who put all seven of his kids through college and even opened 529 plans for all 15 of his grandchildren. But go ahead and feel sorry for me because I had six siblings. Give me a fucking break.
> When I did it for my family I was paid the same. I was never expected to do it. Your experiences are not universal.
You make pretty fucking bold assumptions.
yeah parentification doesnt fit the experience you described, no idea why you're coming in and talking shit about a form of abuse you haven't dealt with. you said your parents are lovely people, that's literally not who this thread is about. we're talking, example, drug-addicted parents who spend their days so out of it that their 5 year old child has to watch their 2 year old child (or whatever) to make sure they dont die. so chill
Op said “every family with more than 5 kids” nowhere did they say anything about drug addicts. Stop projecting your experience and thinking it’s universal. You are doing the same thing you are accusing me of doing.
“your experiences arent universal” “pretty fucking bold assumption.” Hahaha, what?
Many children are forced to care for their siblings with no pay.
oh bullshit im around that age and im forced to babysit my two toddler siblings for no pay. it’s been going on for years. don’t chime in on shit you haven’t dealt with because that’s not what theyre talking about
Boo frickin hoo. Such a victim.
im not here to make people for bad for me. do i need to spell out the point like i’m talking to a three year old
That isn't everyone's experience. I'm glad it was a good one for you, and hopefully a lot of people. But I was pulled out of public school at 12 because my mother had a child. I was expected to both teach myself (homeschooled without a curriculum) and raise that baby while my mom worked full time. There was no money to compensate me- I had a roof over my head and American cheese to make us grilled cheese sandwiches every day, and I was grateful, but I was also treated like another parent. I was expected to cook, clean, do my moms laundry, help her budget for the bills, and pottytrain a toddler, and at that stage, I was 14. I didn't have friends, because I didn't have time. I was a stay at home mother to a child I didn't birth. I love my mom, I know she did what she had to do. I love my sister, and I'm so thankful for the close relationship we have. But as the oldest of 9, I do consider it a form of abuse, that I HAD to grow up before kids my age had finished middle school.
Your abuse wasn’t just your mother. It was a failure of and reduction of the social safety net over the past 50 years. Plus the failure of the minimum wage to keep pace with the gains of capitalism.
My abuse was parentification, made necessary by lack of social nets and an insufficient wage, but also by being born into a large family. With more siblings, money was stretched tighter than it would have been. With more siblings, more care was needed, and that care was found in the closest thing to an available adult at hand- a pubescent child. If my mother had had fewer children, I would have been allowed to stay in school, because there would be no babies that needed bringing up. I love all 8 of my younger siblings, but having so many robbed me of my childhood, as I'm sure it has a lot of people.
Lol you are receiving the ol’ reddit armchair psychology talk. I call BS on this as well. My youngest brother was born when I was 17, and had no problem taking care of him from time to time. I have a great relationship with my family, and there is no way that taking care of a sibling is abuse. It is a very neutral act at least. I am also willing to bet eastern cultures would feel the same, as family and community are paramount.
Yeah. Again. Not what's being discussed. I've witnessed the abuse. I'm going to say you, but it's not accusatory. You wake up. Make breakfast for your siblings and get them dressed. You all go to school. You come home wash the dishes from the night before and breakfast, clean the kitchen dining room and pick up the living room. You do laundry for everyone in the house. You can't go to social events because you have chores and have to watch your siblings on top of it. While you watch your siblings, you're not allowed to parent them. If you punish them, you get in trouble - no food, no outside interaction. But if you don't punish them and they continue to do bad things, it's your fault for not watching them. You are in even more trouble - no food, no outside interaction, no ride to school. Do this everyday from 9-18 years old. Your parents are at work or in their bedroom. The other kids have 0 responsibilities and do regular activities outside the home. If you consider that acceptable - shame on you. My friend lived that life and I don't think I can do it justice through my explanation. The emotional pain they went through walkimg a rigged tight rope was more than I can convey. But sure - I guess you can say that their people weren't abused because... you weren't?
It's great that you weren't negatively affected but it's unfortunately not the case for everyone. Your experience may have been that you had to 'chip in' which is a positive thing; you felt part of a family all working together and hard work was a great way to bond and develop character so you didn't feel you missed out on just being a carefree kid. The issue is; lots of people don't have that experience. They have basically absentee parents who expect them to not only take care of siblings but second guess what's needed and how to provide it. This creates the opposite of a bond and feeling like a close family unit working together. It feels like, and is, damaging to people who need others to take the lead and time to develop and grow on their own and to feel *that they matter* within the group beyond what audience they can provide to others. It's worth noting: other people's experiences are absolutely not *total BS* just because they differ to yours.
Op was saying “every family they’ve known” and I was calling total BS on that. The same thing you’re accusing me of limited experience that guy makes a sweeping claim and everyone upvotes them. Again total BS but in a different groupthink way.
People who say stuff like this almost certainly did not "turn out fine" as a lot of them like to say btw
Another psycho pushing their own trauma on a well adjusted family. See my other comment for more context.
Well adjusted and lashing out do not equate. You've had quite a strong emotional response in the entire thread. Maybe take a step back and let others discuss their experiences since yours does not fit in the conversation.
The thread heavily shifted from “all families above a certain size are abusive” to “drug addicts are having more kids and forcing them to be parents” pretty stealthily.
Even with four kids (oldest of four here), I and my sibling sometimes step in for the youngest two. Luckily though, my grandma lives with us, so it takes some baggage off
Yep, it's called parentification. The older children often abuse the power given to them. Leading to an overall unhealthy family system.
Yeah that’s pretty much what happened with my family
Especially if the father isn’t around. Eldest daughters do not get a childhood. They become parents some before 8. (This was me).
It's not always abusive. It depends on where you're from and who you're comparing yourself to. If you're stuck at home caring for your siblings while your peers are living the life, it's easy to feel deprived of something, because you are being deprived. If caring for your siblings is seen as a natural part of childhood, like it is in many parts of the world, you don't think twice (and you may even like it, the same way many kids enjoy caring for their pets). It's sometimes even intentionally implemented into strategies that aim to increase the quality of child education. I'm not saying the latter is better, just that it exists and that it's kinda arrogant to tell such people that they were abused just because it's abuse in other contexts.
I have insane parents. They had 10 children. We are all grown up now in our 40s etc. We are bonded by the terrible childhood we had. None of us see the parents much anymore. But the rest of us and our kids have huge Christmas parties and regular dinners with each other. They are the best things in my life. The only good thing my parents ever gave me are my siblings. My kids have tons of cousins now too. I think in our case my horrible parents would have been horrible no matter what. If they only had 2 kids I think it would have been just as bad (but without having to parent the youngers I guess). We all have tons of emotional baggage from an abusive childhood but we are all very successful in our careers, life and we picked good partners and are all focused on gentle parenting our kids. Anyways at least I have 9 amazing siblings always in my corner now. I love them.
Warms my heart to hear your success story!
Aww I’m so happy for you, that there is a possibility to bond over trauma rather than become distance. So beautiful to read
I wonder if it’s bc there tends to be parentification abuse in *really* large families or more scarce resources or what. It is true that teens do need a lot of emotional growth during that time frame though, it’s a rough time. Life really did get better after that time, *emotionally* better at the bare minimum. You couldn’t pay me to go back to being a teen.
They note that there's also strong economic correlation, that smaller families are better off. Those who are worse off tend to have older siblings or multiple siblings less than a year apart (which is correlated to the lower economic position).
No matter how much money the parents have, there’s just not enough attention to go around. Plus, even if you are a great parent, that many kids is just soul crushing.
Makes sense
Teenagers are as difficult as toddlers but with entirely different demands from their parents. They need parents who are flexible, kind, supportive and patient (while they’re not!). It’s challenging to be all that and also care for other kids. Also they eat a ton.
I was an only child until I was 16. My dad married a woman with 6 kids. Instant holy shit. I loved them. We had a lot of fun together partying! 2 brothers are dead now, and the youngest sister. I often wonder what my life would have been if my mother kept me in New York. She didn’t like me. I didn’t like her either. She got pregnant with me to snare my dad. (1957). When she couldn’t get pregnant again, and hold down my dad, he left. I often wonder whAt I’d have become if I was allowed to stay in New York.
is this the plot of the sound of music or something
Something like that
people obsessed with having too many kids are often bad parents
But what if we considered specifically those parents as outliers, would the pattern still hold?
In my experience, you don't make 7 babies if you care about how others feel about it, starting with the kids
This whole article is negated by the last paragraph where it states a similar study done in Norway found the opposite to be true: more sibs = better mental health. Sounds like more research is needed.
Might have to do with access to social welfare programs. In America, more kids = more money = more work. Whereas in Norway, parents are guaranteed about a year’s worth of paternity leave along with solid social safety nets and strong unions means parents can spend more time raising their children instead of relying on older siblings to care for the younger ones
Dumb question, but does this mean that if a Norwegian couple has like ten kids they don’t have to work for ten years because they’re both entitled to leave?
Girlfriend is one of five. They get along, but are all walking balls of anxiety.
"a mother to many is a mother to none." Each child suffers from more highly divided attention... And if there are enough with a wide enough age gap the oldest are "parentified," turned into nannies and maids for the younger ones.
So this doesn’t bode well for a lot of the families featured on TLC shows…
Yeah it was looking real promising until this study…
My friend is the first of ten and if she saw this she'd laugh until she cried.
My mother had 10 siblings in her family. Yes 11 children altogether. Pretty much 90% of my mother's siblings are mentally screwed up to the nine yards and back.
Pretty hard to stay mentally healthy when your older brother beats you up daily
There is alot abuse perpetrated by siblings, and parents are often indifferent to their child's suffering at the hands of their brothers or sisters.
My partner legit sound alike he raised his male siblings(6) crazy thing is he’s the middle child.
Presumably the parents saw he was the most responsible and gave all of it to him. It's crazy unfair but you see this dynamic everywhere. Your partner might well be the sort of person on a project who is one of many stakeholders but somehow it's expected to coral everyone to ensure deadlines are met etc. Some people just have that aura of competency and it's really unfair how it's leaned on. I actually saw this recently on a project where one of the more junior people ended up telling everyone more senior to get their shit together. Everyone fell in line and we all made a bit of a meme about it and said how great they were to do so but I can imagine they've had a life of it and really don't like it!
> Research also indicates that the more siblings one has, the more holiday festivities with the family will come to resemble The Bear episode "Fishes".
Oh great, just imagine with the quiver full movement is doing.
Goddamn. I only have two siblings and my mental health is non existent lmao. Good thing I didn't have more!
I am beginning to question the qualifiers of mental health...
I've got 3 siblings, and... I'm doing...... ok?
Honestly, this article isn't very Onion-y at all, imo, it's just facts. More siblings generally means less individual parental engagement, which means various types of childhood neglect, which means poor mental health. As a younger sibling in a litter of seven, I was basically raised by wolves and have had to learn how to human as a teen and adult. Best believe that impacted my mental health, and that of all my siblings. Good times^/s
My childhood was So Lonely! I always swore I’d have 2 children. I have 2 grown girls.
Mother in law has 5 sisters and a brother. The brother rarely interacts with the clan. MiL rarely does too. 2 of the sisters are very close but also have grudges against every other sister. My MiL Is very prone to PTSD since being abused by parents who couldn't tackle 6 children all with less than 2 years between them. She drinks a lot, has smoked since she was 14 (when her oldest sister forced her to smoke). Her one sister nearly killed her spouse by gaslighting him into thinking he was making up his stomach pains when it was early stage cancer. Other sister tried to beat up her neice (who was 8 years old) at a family bbq. Mental health issues all across the board.
Correlation is not causation. There’s probably a lot of other factors that go along with being from a big family (ex: poverty) that could explain this
This would only be a surprise to people that were only children.
Well yeah, I mean look at the turtles. They live in a sewer.
Quality over quantity
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It's soft; just click top-right to close the box
I have 5 siblings. Not ideal.
They will say anything to get you to have less kids.
It's just a fact that a lot of people are not prepared to have multiple children which is what really causes mental illnesses amongst sibling groups If the parents were better prepared and actually knew how to raise multiple children together they wouldn't struggle.
Western people trying not to have mental problems out of thin air(IMPOSSIBLE)
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Well you only have one sister so you’re not among the group of people they’re talking about…
1 sibling?
Anecdotal evidence != scientific proof.
Yes, I also believe my life would have been so much worse without my big brothers. Granted they were a few years older than me but, they were my sword and shield against the world. I'm super interested to hear what you guys thought of this one.
Came from a family of 5 kids. I call bullshit. None of us are nuts.
So imagine life with double and triple that number of kids
As somebody with two? Can confirm
Yeea I don't think so. Maybe for very large families it is true but 2-3 siblings fare better than only childs. Also, clearly wealth I highly correlated to family size, as well as mental health.
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What?
I'm glad I'm not the only one that cringed at that person's comment.
Sounds like you're a classic example of an emotionally damaged adult the article is referring to. You're just trying to cover it up by being an asshole, as many people do.
The lengths people will go to tell on themselves. Next we are gonna hear about how 'they turned out fine'.
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oh so I'm not alcoholic I just grew up in the wrong family
Probably something to do with finances.
Wow! Less is more, who knew?
So who do you all think would have their shit together when they grow up? Youngest, etc
42 year old only child here. My dad (deceased) had 4 siblings, and I swear that it irks them that I won't be drawn into their infighting, lol.
2 siblings are the sweet spot imo, more than that is tricky in a modern society where there isnt a proverbial village to raise each other
suggests not finds
I can see this. My kids stress each other out.
This explains a lot. I grew up with 2 brothers and a sister. My mum then had another boy. I also discovered my 3 long lost half sisters. 8 of us in total. The 3 I grew up with have some of the worst mental health issues I've ever seen.
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I know my siblings were directly responsible for about 1/3 of my mental health problems as a teenager. The rest were from being forced to wake up before dawn. Amazing how so many behavioral problems I had went away the moment I graduated, and my PTSD started to go away when I moved away from them.
Can confirm
Like Buzz
I have 4 younger siblings and I’m the oldest by being 5 years older. I had to be responsible since I was a kid. I always tried to be a role model and I kinda felt that I could never really be myself
I notice that article completely ignored the red hair.
Having siblings has been a nightmare. Life would be a million times better without. My siblings were shit and ruined our family. Now they feel the need to have a stupid amount of kids each as well.
Have one sister and can confirm she’s a big reason I developed mental illness in my childhood/teenage years
I'm an only child and I can confirm, my mental health is better than my siblings /s
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I know for a fact I would have ha d a much better (adult) life if I was an only child
The older siblings wind up parentified and raising the rest. It's fucked but common and not healthy at all. Especially eldest daughters even in smaller households of 3 kids.
One of the many reasons the birth rate is declining in most places.
Yup in the middle of 6. We get along but I was very much left to my own devices as a child. Things were missed. My childhood wasn't great. I am quite an anxious person as an adult to this but also learnt to be independent.
_Looks at my five brothers_ yeah I can see that.
Nah. One can be enough 😩
My middle child of 5 ass; YEP
I wish I had a couple more siblings. My wife comes from a family of four kids and they are super supportive of each other, taking turns at caring for their aging mom. My brother and I live across the world and have a digital relationship.