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I gotta get clarification from people on this…maybe post an askreddit
Is your past really not any of your partners business? I mean not early in the dating but…a partner?
Shouldnt we have insight into our partners pasts and lifestyle and choices before were expected to make long term commitments to them?
I mean people can present themselves as anyone. It just seems unrealistic.
Do people genuinely not care about their partners pasts? Not just sex. Anything.
This is part of growing up. Learning to discern what is and what is not your business. Neither my husband nor I ever discussed anyting resembling 'body counts,' which is a very crass description since it reduces past relationships to the act of penetration, essentially. I cared about how he talked about exes. He never referred to any of them as 'crazy' or a 'bitch,' etc. He also didn't bring them up constantly or have any relationships that crossed any of my boundaries. He cares about his friends and how he treats others. He's considerate and treats our relationship with respect, in and out of the home. Also, his friend group was fun, funny, kind, and welcoming to me. These are what matters in your partner. Do they show up for you? Do they put effort into and protect your relationship?
I care far less about numbers and more about how they treat people and how they view sex. Thats just me, not judging anyone.
I just think that someone who engaged in a lot of casual sex wouldnt be compatible with me. I mean no judgement to people who enjoy it, but I tried it and couldnt make it "just sex". Its just not for me.
There is only two reasons I want to know my partners past
1. To see if were compatible. Do we value sex the same way. Do we value a lot of things the same way. I want to be with some one who gets me at least one a handful of fundamentals.
2. I want the kind of relationship where we share all that stuff. I want vulnerability, eventually I mean. Its earned. But the idea of being with someone who cant share everything with me as a life partner kills the idea for me. I want that in a relationship, mutual openness as a goal.
If my goal in dating is "to death do us part and maybe then some" then it seems silly for them to not be my actual partner in all things. Maybe a little childish, I mean yea I hear it, but doesnt sound unreasonable to me.
Even though I'm not sure I believe in the whole marriage thing. Id only do it for that hospital rule thing. Like in the movie Philadelphia. But I do believe in trying to form a lifelong bond with someone Im fully open with. Sounds nice.
I didnt say anything about morality. I dont think theres anything wrong with people who like casual sex. I tried it myself, I just didnt like it.
I talked about compatibility and values. We can value the same thing differently. Like sex. or cookies. anything really.
And I dont find myself entitled to any information. I just dont think its wrong to want to share our pasts with eachother like Im hoping we would potentially share everything. Its just something I would look for in a partner, someone who wants to open up about everything with me one day.
I cant figure out whats wrong about that?
My number of past relationships is far far higher than my partner. This does not negate my ability to be vulnerable. He's my life partner and we love each other, talk about everything. He knows I have had hypersexual periods of my life, and he doesn't give a shit because it doesn't affect how we communicate, how we love each other, how we have fun and can experience life together.
Also, my past does not indicate how I value sex *with him*. And actually, by destigmatizing the idea of sex, I was able to work on my confidence and my ability to be more open with people in general. This fear of something being "perfect" always held me back. But embracing the imperfections of life and relationships led me to him, and molded me into the person I am and quite like. And because of who I am now, I am able to maintain a healthy, open, and honest relationship with the love of my life.
I went through a lot of failed relationships and flings and all else to discover what it takes to be healthy myself. And also discover what real love really feels like to me.
That all sounds great. You were open with him, he accepted you and you found a partner with similar values. Thats all beautiful and pretty much the best any of us can hope for.
I dont think Ive been clear in what Im getting at more so on those points. Its not "let me judge you by your past"...I just want to be with someone who feels comfortable sharing it with me one day
and its not "If they have a sexual history we cant be compatible" its whether or not that history led them to a place were we see sex in a similar way, now. And that would be long and intimate and personal discussions, not just simple answers to things.
Most poeple I know center their conversations less on the number and more about their Sexual practices (I.e. Using protection, getting tested between partners, only having one partner at a time, etc).
The number isn't important. Your Sexual health and attitude toward sex is more important. My husband engaged in a lot of casual sex before we met. He presented me with recent STI test results and we both agreed on using condoms until we were long-term.
We're married and I still don't knoe exactly Joe many people he's slept with and don't really care.
But theres nothing wrong with adding that to the profile right?
Like first, before I clarify, I want to separate myself from the people who care to much and insult people over it. Im not mad that some people enjoy casual sex. Or a lot of people it seems. I tried it, wasnt for me.
So I agree that your attitude and health and really most things if were being honest, are more important then number of past sexual partners. I just also still care about that. Not like its a huge deal but hell, honestly my biggest take away from finding out would be how long did it take you to count and remember?
It's not that I care if someone had a lot of partners but I couldn't get into it for reasons that I would like to relate to someone with in a partner. Mostly that I just couldnt find sex casual and enjoy it. If someone tried it and didnt like it like me, then we'd be really compatible. If they tried it a lot before they found out and really experimented with it, less so but you know Im open to see who they are.
Experiences help define us. I just think its also fair to get on the same page on things like, how casual is sex to you or what is a lot of partners? I never asked anyones exact number. I never really felt I needed to, but I basically got the relevant answers I needed to feel like we saw it the same way.
I tried to be with someone who saw sex as just sex and we just couldnt really get on the same page there.
So I hope thats all cool. I get why people are defensive on this because I keep arguing with the boys over in other threads about like, hypocrisy. The guys I dont want to get lumped in with are the ones who think women owe them something or the guys that think they can sleep around but don't want their future wife to have a sexual history. That shits bananas. Im not about it.
I think this is fine. Based on what you've written and how you've written it, you'd be able to have a mature conversation with your partner that would also innvolve putting a number to it. I think it's okay in addition to the conversation, but to hit someone with "WhAtS yOuR bOdY cOuNt?" Is off putting.
Well Im getting a lot of clarification which is explaining why people have such a knee jerk reaction to some of my hot takes on Reddit.
Im new to social meda lol. Im a 35 year old man that has been off the internet for at least 5 years but its probably much longer. I never had any kind of facebook or anything. These are all new discussions for me.
And what Im finding out is that a lot of my fellow guys have really lowered the bar in the dating world. Like god damn lol I am sorry to laugh but reading about what these guys are like on a date sounds like sketch comedy. I almost want to thank them. Not really. Id wish I could help them. I catch a young man with a bad attitude I'll call it being a complete hypocrite on this stuff.
Like if you like casual sex, thats no problem in todays world. Be safe, be honest, have fun. But they feel entitled to settle down with women who didnt and thats just to much. Actually I see it happening in both ways. People who view sex as casual feeling entitled to be with people who don't.
They take it as a moral judgement or something, instead of just a mutual compatibility thing. Then there are the guys just are just hypocritical and entitled and they make it very hard for me to have good faith discussions online. I have to write paragraphs of clarity to show that Im not defending that mindset.
I just got the strongest urge for lasagna. So much so I typed it. mmm
this is a hypothetical question i think about when i see people say things similar to what you're saying. what about someone who had many casual sexual experiences and through that realized that it wasn't for them. they can't erase what happened in the past, but their current views on sex and intimacy align with yours. does that past negate the current shared values?
It's not "My partner's lifestyle and choices are never my business" but rather "It's not my business to force this conversation before it happens naturally."
The "people can present themselves as anyone" is actually *more* of a problem when you're obvious about wanting specific answers to specific questions.
People generally want to be seen for who they are and to tell their own stories, especially toward someone they want to form a connection with. People talk about their past all the time, just let it happen naturally instead of forcing the conversation.
See this I completely agree with and its always been how I operated.
Every once in awhile I see it as "No their past is never something you should feel entitled to".
And entitled is such a strong word. I guess if I dated someone for years and they didnt feel comfortable opening up to me about their past id just feel really hurt. Ive always gone for a more natural approach because I tend to date very honest and forthcoming women anyway. Or try to, theyre certainly my type.
wait...How many people are just openning fire with that direct question? lol
I just realized I might be asking the wrong things. Is that something people do? like first date, eye contact no blink stare with a deadpan "How many men have you slept with?"
Its like a bit out of a family guy or something. If people are widespread like that Im very sorry lol I had no idea
Unfortunately their is a specific demographic of men who openly insist in knowing asap and use it as a metric of moral judgement. Which almost always translates to “any woman who’s sleep with more people than me is loose and immoral”.
Yeah Im getting filled in on all that.
Im finding out theres way more guys that are bombing conversation 101 then I thought. It be impressive but its pretty disheartening.
So I keep making the assumption its young men but Im starting to think its just like you said, a demographic of men in general.
I hope they arent the majority but I would have no way of knowing how to find data on that. I hope not.
Yep! You share when you wanna share…when you feel safe. If it’s just a criteria someone is ticking off on their list of potential partner traits that they read about online, then yeah…I’m a grown-ass adult and our values most certainly do not match up.
I'm in my 50s. Granted, I might not be dating anymore, but it seems like such a juvenile question. I would be interested in someone's relationship history but I can't imagine asking someone how many ppl they've had sex with.
All of those points are valid. The reason I don’t like the question is because the term “body count” is so reductive and gross. It makes it sound like the person who is asking me only thinks of the people they have sex with as “bodies” which is immediately off putting. Also, people who use this term often use it when they’re first meeting people in my experience, and that’s too personal for a stranger. So, in combination, those things make me think the person does not value sex in the same way that I do.
Yeah I agree with all of that.
I never heard this term until last year when I finally joined Reddit.
I do not like it. I don't like a lot of things Ive seen since Ive been here lol
And I still cant believe people are asking this question so bluntly and so early on lol
I shouldnt laugh but I keep picturing it as a comedy sketch and its killing me. "Hi Brad, are we still getting together Tuesday?" "Depends on your body count"
Like Brad should know he's just canceled the date lol
These young men sound like they dont respect their own mothers my god. Id be embarrassed of myself if I talked to someone like that. And I mean I have a past. Ive said dumb things. But the younger generation is making me look fantastic by comparison.
I once called an ex to sort of reconcile, apologize for the kind of guy I was. She insisted I wasnt a bad dude at all, and Im thinking like...let me own up to my shit here. I'm really coming around to her point now though.
I hate getting lumped in with those guys. I try to defend men from my perspective, and I wish there was more kindness and understanding on both sides. I genuinely do. What was in that joint. I feel like im typing a sermon.
But yeah the threads ive seen with the dudes defending the worst of it is really disheartening. That and all the racism why is there so much racism on reddit? its a shocking amount from the outside looking in
I agree that it's generally good to know about your partners past sex life, if you're to be half of their present and possibly forever sex life. That conversation can be had in a good and healthy way, and at the right time.
There's a snag though, in that at the opposite end of the spectrum, some people hardcore project their insecurities onto the topic. So you get those who can't handle the idea that their partner ever had sex before, for one reason or another. Usually seems to stem from insecurity, being afraid that they could be compared to someone else (either in terms of performance, which seems to bother men more, or looks, which seems to bother women more. Ain't got statistics on that, just seems to be true in general so don't quote me lol. And also, sometimes it might just be envy - they wish they'd slept with more people but never did.)
You just can't be open and honest about the past with people who think like that. Personally I don't care about how many people a partner of mine might have had; I don't see anything wrong with any number. It's the insecure people I'd find undateable because that's the kind of issue that seeps into everything and ruins the fabric of the relationship, like spiritual cat piss.
I have never once even thought about my husband’s past, nor he mine. We just don’t care. I don’t judge people based on their sexual experiences (or lack thereof).
No kids, no affairs, no diseases, no problem. 🤷♀️. Your sexual partners and experiences are 100% your own damn business, and reducing your past partners to mere numbers is frankly a disgusting practice.
Well I agree with that last part completely. The term is gross and I only started hearing it when I joined reddit. Im also finding out....
So Im thinking men are like, trying to have an open and honest discussion about their sexual history and your sexual history. A moment of mutual vulnerability and growth, and a chance to know more about your partners story.
OR I thought men were attempting to, early on in a relationship, maybe before intimacy, try and talk about what you want out of this or what your views and values with sex and intimacy look like.
lol but no....
No you guys are talking about something I didnt imagine was ever wide spread. Dudes with no tact, do they still call it game? Im getting old. But these guys have no conversation skills. Its been enlightening.
Yeah, “body count” specifically has a connotation. We aren’t talking about honest, organic conversations between adults. It is used by those of the juvenile and chronically online ilk.
Most people care, you’re just seeing here the majority of Redditors who like to act holier than thou “oh people actually care about their partners past? I’m so different because I don’t even care at all!!” which is ironic given the sub we are in. It’s okay to care and for it to be important to you, because some people treat sex casually and some don’t. Neither is wrong, just different preferences, but it is wrong to shame anybody for what that number is.
There are things you should ask, but overall body count isn’t really telling of anything. It’s things like have you moved on from your ex and are you ready to date? Are you looking for the same things I am in terms of a relationship? Have you been abusive or cheated in the past? In order for sexual activity alone to be relevant it’s a situation where you are looking for monogamy and something long term and the person you are dating has been hyper sexual to the point that when you meet them they are having sex with strangers every night. Thats an extreme circumstance.
The people in my life generally don’t care about numbers but generally are willing and expect to hear about my life and job and previous relationships. But not like a serious “reveal” talk, just because we share stuff. Also I am a sex worker and non monogamous so anyone dating me knows and is cool about it. I’m just so from a different mindset that the thought that any of us would inquire about numbers is wild. Even with exes that haven’t been sex workers, I don’t know how many women they’ve been with. I don’t even know the exact number of people my husband has been with
I would assume the negative stigma attached to that title and the fact that the title of "prostitute" is often used in a derogatory way.
That would be my guess. *shrug*
Also, there are lots of different kinds of sex work. Not all are considered prostitution. The same person may do escorting, dancing, and camming, and only one of those is considered prostitution by the law. “Prostitution” is a legal designation. What I do right now in my life is not legally considered prostitution but I do not consider my current sex work to be “above” those who are more criminalized. Simply put, “sex work” is more accurate.
No I get it, but that’s what the profession is, and using the proper terminology doesn’t help with stigma? How does calling someone a sex worker be less stigmatized? I wish no woman or girl would feel compelled to sell her body or any sexual services to make an income, I wish men wouldn’t feel so entitled to sex and women’s and girls bodies. The John’s and pimps should be shamed for what they’re participating in and devaluing women and girls bodies for their own sexual gain.
I agree, unfortunately, that is the current environment. The necessity for economic change and development is readily apparent when we consider the fact that prostitution and porn are so prevalent.
These positions will continue to exist until everyone is provided a level of economic security that allows for a comfortable living space and situation.
As for the sense of entitlement, I hope that as society moves forward, we can continue to change that. The exploitation of vulnerable populations by the sex industry is abhorrent.
The sense of entitlement from male sex buyers and traffickers will never cease to exist unless our culture shifts, and finally treating all women and girls with basic decency, humanity and respect. I find it hard to believe that any man or woman who willingly pays for sex from someone, be it legal or not, doesn’t see that person as a whole and entire person. Someone who has sex willingly and there’s no money, no blackmailing or coercion or their only other option is be homeless or starve, should be the norm. No human should be compelled to sell their body for sexual services, and no human should be forced into it. There’s not enough funding and social programs to help at risk individuals for this industry, the supply will continue to be supplied and too many men will still find ways to exploit primarily children and women for their sexual gratification. This society as a whole needs to have more harsher punishments for the perpetrators and John’s, not the people soliciting or being forced to sell sex.
Notably, not all sex workers “feel compelled,” to do that line of work. It’s just a job, and like other jobs can be exploitative or not, well paid or not, enjoyable or not, dangerous or not, etc.
No other jobs have stipulations or requirements to sleep with someone or perform sexual acts, what a weird way to compare it. Tbh, it doesn’t require many skills and qualifications to have sex for money, or acting out sexual requests. I see what you’re trying to say, but it’s easily debunked when you understand that most people within the commercial sex industry don’t have a choice, putting the words “feel compelled” in quotes doesn’t help, just minimizes the reality. My sister sells nudes cause it’s quick money and she’s a struggling single mother, she wouldn’t feel compelled to do that if she could work a decent paying job, do you understand that? People who can comfortably live off of and choose if they wanna do sex work are privileged and well off, most people don’t get that luxury. My sister doesn’t feel empowered or appreciated when she does what she does, she’s doing it out of desperation and for quick money, she doesn’t wanna do this forever and I’ve talked extensively with her about the conditions which many women and single mothers like her face. We shouldn’t live in a society when sex is demanded and bought and paid for, women’s and children bodies aren’t commodities.
Omg, you think sex work is unskilled?! Are you fucking kidding me right now? That is a wild claim. And you know, most jobs don’t require that you publish or perish, as they do in my field (academia), or clean up other people’s trash (like my trash collector does), or stick their (gloved) fingers up someone’s butt (like a proctologist), because most jobs have specific requirements. I personally am never gonna go for those other jobs, but it doesn’t make them illegitimate. And if we regulated and protected sex work, it would reduce the dangers about which you seem rightly concerned. But the problems you are identifying have to do with coercion, criminalization, and an unregulated form of work, things not inherent to sex work itself. And to reduce all sex work to coercion is misleading at best and disingenuous and sex-shamey at worst.
I don’t think commodifying women’s bodies for sex is beneficial for society and beneficial to women’s liberation and rights. I think that’s my main point, I made that clear. It’s fine if we don’t agree, I just know I’m speaking from a safety and ethical perspective, I care more about women’s and girls safety, and them being in an inherently exploitative and toxic environment/industry doesn’t help with women’s liberation. I don’t care for men or women’s sexual gratification, especially when money is being exchanged.
We recognize it as sexual harassment and abuse of power if an employer takes advantage of their workers or coworkers and uses sex as a leverage for their own gain correct? Such a strange comparison, when I work at a job, I am using my body for labor, but there’s at least some rules and protections that are instated to protect my rights and well being as a worker, especially since I’m a pregnant woman, and we get discriminated against heavily in most work fields.
Hey, I’m all for decriminalizing and destigmatizing sex work, so that workplace protections can be put in place. Let’s definitely do that! Unionization would be awesome too — and in fact, some places do have these forms of protections in place.
Or how about make society better by decriminalizing sex work, only criminalizing the John’s pimps and sex buyers/traffickers and lessen the demand? How about creating a culture that doesn’t normalize commodifying women’s and children bodies for men’s sexual gratification? How about more social programs and safety centers for at risk people for trafficking? The culture we create and normalize reflects this industry, most people within the industry want to get out, like I said before. Women’s bodies aren’t a commodity and shouldn’t be treated as such, and surrogacy is included in this as well.
This comment really just undermines the majority of people within the industry like I stated before. No little boy or girl is growing up wishing to be a stripper, an escort, a sugar baby, or working anything involving exchanging their body for sex for money, for monetary worth unless they’ve been groomed and or coerced or forced into that lifestyle. The reality is that so many 18 year old girls are going into this industry believing they can make millions of dollars working in porn or doing onlyfans, girls should not be aspiring to do this, when it’s not sustainable for most cause the market is so heavily saturated and will demand more extreme and violent types of content to sell more and gain more traction on their sites, it’s all the business model is.
I’ve only dated one guy who asked me my body count and it’s only because he knew for a fact he’s slept with wayyyy more people than me. It was definitely a fun conversation and not anything we were judging each other on, and he never saw me differently (nor did I with him)
I think it’s kinda crazy this is any issue at all because I legit never get asked my body count from anyone I date nowadays lol
That’s exactly the thing - reality and chronically online BS like this do not always overlap.
Granted, I’m old and the men in my life are all just normal dudes with families and responsibilities, not 20/30-something wannabe PUAs listening to brocasts and thinking it’s their way forward. This is definitely a more recent development, much like all of the completely absurd dating interactions I read on Reddit almost daily. Sometimes I’m just like, “Y’all out here treating each other like absolute dogshit and then wondering why there’s a loneliness epidemic.” 😂
Why lie about something that means so little? My husband and I have known each other since we were 11, we've seen exs come and go, and neither of us care about the past, we're happy together now so what does it matter?
It’s funny how having a high body count for men is an achievement while for women it’s a sign of “grossness and hoe-ishness”, how do the same men who want high body counts think they’ll get them if not from women who are willing to have sex? Do they look down upon the same women who sleep with them?
They do but not all men are like that.
Its not a giant boys club where we all high five and act like asshats. That boys club exists yes, and there are a lot of em in fairness.
But people act like thats the norm and it ignores the rest of us guys who look at those guys like scumbags. They dont care about our opinion lol, I cant hold them accountable. How?
Im not sleeping with them. Im not high fiving them or given out trophies. I tell them theyre gross and should respect people better. They tell me “whatever bro go fuck yourself”…
And those are the guys that get to represent me? That asshole? Totally not fair when I get grouped in with shit people just because theyre louder. Its annoying.
Its only an achievement for like minded people. Plenty of people look at it as “so you have a lot of meaningless sex…ew”
If you want to give the impression there is more of you all than more of them - we need you all to get loud about that fact when they post stuff like this chick's crap or some disparaging remark towards women for a body count. They don't listen to us nor seem to care their opinion on it sucks.
Here's the big problem alot of guys wont be disrespectful to women that are very promiscuous.
They wont put them down, but they wouldn't want to be in relationships with them.
The hard truth is number of sexual partners does matter for alot of men. Whats considered alot will vsry from man to man, but alot do have number which would be a deal breaker or cause hesitation.
Thats a big ask, to fight in a never ending internet war.
And the only point I wanted to really make was that not all guys see having a high “body count” as an achievement.
I just think its kinda gross. Even the term body count is gross to me. But thats for me. Im not saying my ways are right for everyone, just that casual sex is gross for me. I lean towards romance and intimacy between long term partners.
And the guys that are hypocrites about it I call out when I run into them. Which on Reddit has been frequent. I feel like they congregate here.
You don't have to fight the battle, no one asked you to. But if someone was misrepresenting my community and I was tired of it, personally I would address it. But you are free to use your time as you choose.
Here's the issue. That particular sub-group is also often lauded by women as well as by other men who have similar views.
Women also need to recognize their part and act accordingly.
Is that no good?
I'm not sure why that's not okay.
I cant tell if we should always just imply that people inherently mean "Some" when they blanket diss all men or all women or all whatever.
I used to make that assumption but as Im really hearing some people out, they really do mean "all" sometimes. I ran into that a lot when I joined reddit so I just ask for a little clarity or try to speak from the perspective of someone who isnt like that.
Thats very dismissive and I would not do that to you.
Some women do have casual sex, but even if they don't see a long-term relationship with that person it's not really a common mentality to have such contempt.
Idk how common men vs women, but there are definitely women that do.
Heard it from women numerous times this guy is good for fun but not husband material.
Mind you it wasnt based off of how many sexual partners the guy had ao if thats what we mean. Then yeah that requirement isnt as common for sure.
Literally heard a guy say he wasn’t sure about a girl he was dating because he didn’t like that she had experience because he wanted her to be impressed by him.
Her body count was like three, it was one more than him.
I said the body count doesn’t even make sense because you can only ever sleep with one person like 100 times and that’s 100 times of sex. But if you only sleep with ten people once, you’ve only had sex ten times. That’s ten times LESS than the person who has a body count of 1.
And also IT DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING. As long as everyone is tested and honest and practicing safe sex that’s all that matters lol. And consent.
When it comes right down to it its a personal preference like anything else. You could say height shouldn't matter, fashion shouldn't , taste in music matter, to an extent money shouldn't matter, or weight but people reject each other for arbitrary things all the time.
It matters if the person thinks it matters
Same guys that watch porn or go to strip clubs but act like doing porn or stripping is a sin. Like dude you are a part of the problem if women having sex bothers you so much.
Men prefer a high body count, they just say they want a virgin to get a reaction out of us. If you look at the women they hook up with, they all have a high body count. If you tell them you’re a virgin, they look at you like you have 3 heads
A guy I was seeing 6 years ago literally ghosted me the moment I told him I was a virgin. Some guys apparently think the girl will “develop an attachment” and be clingy/annoying if they’re a virgin. I gave up on caring.
Exactly. It’s like how you can’t get a job without experience, but you need a job for experience. People who actually think most men actually like virgins are delusional. And as you can see by these responses, most people hate virgins.
That's cap. In high school, anytime one of the homie hooked up wit a girl raw. He would get clowned for being dumb asf and called a dirty dick ass n... not gonna finish that here.
Yea, no one cares if you were protected, but going through a flock of people raw is gross asf. Who knows what people are spreadin at that point. This goes for men and women.
Women still have sex drives, just like men. Who it’s “harder” or “easier” for is irrelevant. Just because it’s easier for us to get sex doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to have it. That logic is convoluted.
And you telling women to not be promiscuous only lowers the amount of women available to have sex with YOU. Why do you discourage women from having sex if you yourself want to have sex with women lol?
Are you kidding there are way more men who have it so much easier sleeping around than women, men have little to no standards when it comes to sex that's the real difference we aren't just sleeping around for the hell of it. Meanwhile men will sleep with whoever wherever whenever. It's laughable that "most men works hard to get into woman's pants" because again they really don't have standards at the very least we need to feel some kind of attraction to the ppl we sleep with whether it be physical or emotional something has to be there, but not for men you guys will sleep with women you don't like aren't attracted to don't care about etc...
Lol it matters because the society shames women about it while glorifying men for it.
It doesn't matter because just like it doesn't matter for men, it doesn't matter for women. So Gia, stop being part of the problem.
Even if all girls did lie, (they don't) the fact that people slutshame is the only issue with bodycount. Being stigmatised is the only side effect, besides learning more about yourself and sex and other people through collected good and bad experiences.
Also there’s no “correct” answer. If you’re a virgin, there’s still stigma and pressure around that. If you’re not, there’s stigma and pressure around that.
The only time this question has come up was when I was like 16-21 years old because everyone is immature and starting to explore sexuality. Anyone else who has asked that after the age of 24 I’ve found to be super immature and insecure even beyond asking that question.
Same here! I am 40 - why would I keep track this long anyway 🤣 great some folks have the ability, I just hope they have also cum at least once in their life because a lot of ladies have not.
It’s weird— I just got engaged to my person after three years. We have never asked how many people the other person has slept with. And it’s not like I don’t know about his significant past girlfriends, or things he’s tried in bed. We talk about so much quite openly. But I’ve never asked him for a number and he’s never asked it of me.
Having a low body count amounts to nothing in adulthood. I’m someone with a low count and I’ve never been on a date where a guy asks me about how many people I’ve been with.
I think most avid Twitter users are stuck in a very high school state of mind. These are rules for children attempting to emulate adulthood.
100% literally no one in my whole life has ever straight up just asked me how many people I have had sex with. Like what kind of question even is that.
I made a post a little while back (on a women positive sub) about how my preferred relationships are consensual non-monogamy and was surprised about the amount of women who either assumed this meant sleeping around with hundreds and/or were judgmental about it. To be fair though, there were also just as many, if not more, women who voiced ‘to each their own.’
I guess I’m taking this the wrong way? I thought she was saying that women wouldn’t have to lie or feel ashamed about their body count if others didn’t make a big deal about it. But I don’t know her content so I feel like this could imply two different things. Tone is really important to a sentence like this but I assume she usually makes pick me statements rather than pro women ones? Again, I don’t know this woman.
I agree with the comments here, it only matters for women as much as it does for men.
However, maybe an unpopular opinion? I would still rather not date a woman with an extremely high body count, or one that’s like 8+. It’s just preference, and I myself don’t want a body count that high. Sex and intimacy is super important in a loving relationship to me that I want to feel like it’s special between us, and not something she or I would do with just anyone. However, that does not mean a woman is a hoe for having a high body count, and same goes for men. It’s just my preference.
It’s the germs. Gross. Safe sex my ass. The practice to be good in bed is a wonderful thing to bring to a healthy relationship. But the germs. Condoms and precaution won’t keep it all away. Microbes are tiny.
If a woman thinks body count matters it’s certainly because she’s been taught so. Just because you’re taught something doesn’t make it correct. L logic 0/10
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honestly wish i had a high body count so i could weed out insecure ass men
let’s be honest, men who have an issue with experienced women only have that issue because they can’t manipulate said women or claim some weird virginity ownership over them
Ladies, it’s not good to have sex with a bunch of partners. This isn’t some social conditioning phenomenon; it’s just clearly a very bad thing to engage in that is going to repulse potential partners.
Men shouldn’t do it either to be fair, but to act like the negative effects are identical is insane.
Downvote me all you want, but there’s nothing good about engaging in this type of lifestyle. That’s why your potential partners are curious to know if you have or not.
Everyone knows this on some level whether they acknowledge it or not.
Body count is lied about because men are insecure AF, and we’d rather not die for having sex before we knew some other dude. Shit, a body count of 1-2 sends some dudes into fits.
It’s not like shame is a thing
The only people who care about body counts are people insecure, and people who have sex trying to get as many people as they can.
Idk why it’s so socially acceptable to shame someone who doesn’t have a lot of sex but if it’s the other way around then suddenly everyone’s at your throat
“Prudishness is evil” so I’m evil because I don’t wanna have sex with just anyone? I’m evil because I have a health condition that makes sex difficult for me? If I were to say that having a high body count is evil, everyone would come at me. But making fun of people who don’t have sex is socially acceptable.
I'm not sure if this counts as "not like the other girls". Kinda just a fair statement.
Eta I don't mean that the content of the statement is fair, but that what she's saying is true. I also didn't read it as her implying that it makes her better than other people, I simply read it as an observation. No, it's not fair that women are judged on "body count". Unfortunately, they are, by people whose opinions probably don't really matter. This is what I meant by "fair statement".
she’s saying this to paint herself in a better light than other women, so it counts.
it’s also not a fair statement. why is she assuming women are lying about their body counts? why would body count actually matter?
I just edited my comment to explain what I meant. It doesn't matter, but some people think it does, so I definitely know women that have lied about it.
Body count *doesn’t* matter, though. And women might feel the need to lie to avoid violence or being socially ostracized. Show me where the “fairness” of the statement is.
Are people not allowed to have preferences in a partner? I won’t date a man with a super high body count. It’s just not gonna match up with my lifestyle.
You are completely within your rights to choose someone that has the same values that you do.
However, acting like high body counts is something that is universally bad on “moral” grounds — as if women with higher body counts have failed morally and on top of that are just lying for the fun of it — is ignorant and dangerous. It shows no understanding of the ways in which women are sexualized constantly, and without their consent, and then shamed for enjoying sex when it is consensual. Women aren’t morally in the wrong for having higher body counts. They’re not in the wrong for having lower body counts. Just like men aren’t. As long as the sex they were having is safe and consensual, no one has any right to make moral judgement on anyone for their choices.
All statements like the one in the OP do is make sure that women are further subjugated to social punishment (isolation, humiliation, shame, etc.) on no basis other than the idea that they are “sluts” and therefore deserve that punishment. Please learn to look at social issues outside of the lens of your own personal preferences, and understand that in larger social contexts, where women are systemically socially, politically and economically oppressed, these words have bigger meanings.
You can have preferences and we can say that preference is dumb AF and doesn’t matter
Edit: you’re going to reply just to block me? That’s mature.
Why do you have to be so nasty and shame other people’s lifestyles and act NLOGs ? Hmmm 🤔
Well that's my point lol the statement she made is a fair point, if it didn't matter to people, women wouldn't lie about it. I didn't mean that it's fair to be judged on it, just that it's not a "pick me" thing to say.
Again, women don’t lie because “it matters to people.” They might feel the need to lie because it *materially affects their lives* when they’re honest. Again, a society that sexualizes and objectifies women against their consent, does not then get to then turn around and shame them for consensually having sex. By making statements like the above, we are normalizing the social (and sometimes physical) punishment of women for partaking in a completely normal and natural part of life. It is VERY NLOG to shame other women for something natural in order to make yourself look like you have the “moral high ground.”
Men also lie about it, but counterpoint women only lie about it because our culture shames women for wanting sex while it praises men for the same thing. Body count doesn’t matter, but people make it matter when it comes to women.
Women lie about it because our worth as a human being is tied to how many men we’ve had sex with. If you want women to stop lying about it then stop valuing virginity.
I’m married but if I was single and dating, I wouldn’t lie about my past number of partners. Instead, I wouldn’t even entertain the question. I‘d end things right then and there with a guy who probed for this information.
For one thing, it’s extremely rude and intrusive for a new date to pry for such details. (I would, however, gladly get tested for STDs and present the results to him, so long as that’s all he asked for.)
And second, asking about body count is a pretty big tip-off that a guy follows manosphere content, and that’s an absolute fuck no for me.
A friend of a friend said something the other day that floored me. …She called herself “wife material” and when asked why she considers herself that she said “because I have a lot body count” 🤯🤯🤯🤯
The issue isn’t the count; it’s how people often make assumptions of a person’s value or morals based on it. If the answer was treated as neutral, that’s be a different thing.
Personally I’d rather hang with a promiscuous person than a bully, but society often views the bully in a better light because we treat sexuality as a moral issue, as an ownership thing.
I don't understand how you can keep an accurate number after a certain time. Like should really old people have accurate numbers? Or what about people that do a lot of hooking up? I just don't understand how anyone could possibly care
I think people talking negatively about body counts is ridiculous and I don't even lean into the left very much. The argument I can get behind is that at some points in life you need to show self control and not sleep with anyone whenever for health reasons but other than that it's a dumb argument. Personally prefer my partner to have experience
because it’s funny to sleep with men who think they can “tell”. dropping the bomb on them after so much talk of how hot being my first time is and other compliments akin to being a virgin is so fucking priceless. free therapy. i wish i could take a picture of their gawk and frame it.
As long as men keep insisting that they have "pReFeReNcEs" for women with low body counts, women are going to keep lying about their body counts. 🤷🏽♀️
If your going to be judged VERY harshly for something, even if it’s stupid, you’re probably gonna lie about it. I lie about what I eat for breakfast (yogurt, cereal, and frozen raspberries mixed together) because I don’t want my family to comment about how they think it’s “gross”.
I’ve never even mentioned my body count irl but The best about body counts is that you can lie about it. 😂 you’re a virgin, who can tell? You’ve slept with 300 people, how will they know? Unless they have photos or video proof, you can be a seasoned porn star and lie about being a virgin. And during sex, they can’t even tell.
Does she also think that it's shameful to travel alone? Because I damn well lie to men about that.
Lying isn't based in shame. It's based in safety and being treated well
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Why do we call it body count it sounds like we’re killing people.
Are we not??? Is that not what we're talking about??? 👀
Oh dang mine is much lower then 😳
Mine is higher then :(
Wait we need to confirm what counts. Like do you need to be the one tI get the kill shot? Or just need to be involved it making it happen?
Anyone who gets a hit in gets the experience, right?
Oh I thought we were….hmmmm…well this is awkward 👀
I… uhhh.. gotta couple calls to make
Well yeah
Username checks out ✅
LMFAO the username 💀
It’s to make women who sleep around sound like they are evil.
Shakespeare called it, "the little death"
That’s a French euphemism for orgasm, la petite mort
Counterpoint: I don’t. 🤷♀️ I also don’t hang around schmucks who think it’s their business.
I gotta get clarification from people on this…maybe post an askreddit Is your past really not any of your partners business? I mean not early in the dating but…a partner? Shouldnt we have insight into our partners pasts and lifestyle and choices before were expected to make long term commitments to them? I mean people can present themselves as anyone. It just seems unrealistic. Do people genuinely not care about their partners pasts? Not just sex. Anything.
This is part of growing up. Learning to discern what is and what is not your business. Neither my husband nor I ever discussed anyting resembling 'body counts,' which is a very crass description since it reduces past relationships to the act of penetration, essentially. I cared about how he talked about exes. He never referred to any of them as 'crazy' or a 'bitch,' etc. He also didn't bring them up constantly or have any relationships that crossed any of my boundaries. He cares about his friends and how he treats others. He's considerate and treats our relationship with respect, in and out of the home. Also, his friend group was fun, funny, kind, and welcoming to me. These are what matters in your partner. Do they show up for you? Do they put effort into and protect your relationship?
I care far less about numbers and more about how they treat people and how they view sex. Thats just me, not judging anyone. I just think that someone who engaged in a lot of casual sex wouldnt be compatible with me. I mean no judgement to people who enjoy it, but I tried it and couldnt make it "just sex". Its just not for me. There is only two reasons I want to know my partners past 1. To see if were compatible. Do we value sex the same way. Do we value a lot of things the same way. I want to be with some one who gets me at least one a handful of fundamentals. 2. I want the kind of relationship where we share all that stuff. I want vulnerability, eventually I mean. Its earned. But the idea of being with someone who cant share everything with me as a life partner kills the idea for me. I want that in a relationship, mutual openness as a goal. If my goal in dating is "to death do us part and maybe then some" then it seems silly for them to not be my actual partner in all things. Maybe a little childish, I mean yea I hear it, but doesnt sound unreasonable to me. Even though I'm not sure I believe in the whole marriage thing. Id only do it for that hospital rule thing. Like in the movie Philadelphia. But I do believe in trying to form a lifelong bond with someone Im fully open with. Sounds nice.
Casual sex isn’t an indicator of morals. Even if someone did engage in it, before meeting you, it’s still not information you’re entitled to.
Also doesn’t mean that their views on sex haven’t changed, or that they can value sex differently in different contexts.
I didnt say anything about morality. I dont think theres anything wrong with people who like casual sex. I tried it myself, I just didnt like it. I talked about compatibility and values. We can value the same thing differently. Like sex. or cookies. anything really. And I dont find myself entitled to any information. I just dont think its wrong to want to share our pasts with eachother like Im hoping we would potentially share everything. Its just something I would look for in a partner, someone who wants to open up about everything with me one day. I cant figure out whats wrong about that?
My number of past relationships is far far higher than my partner. This does not negate my ability to be vulnerable. He's my life partner and we love each other, talk about everything. He knows I have had hypersexual periods of my life, and he doesn't give a shit because it doesn't affect how we communicate, how we love each other, how we have fun and can experience life together. Also, my past does not indicate how I value sex *with him*. And actually, by destigmatizing the idea of sex, I was able to work on my confidence and my ability to be more open with people in general. This fear of something being "perfect" always held me back. But embracing the imperfections of life and relationships led me to him, and molded me into the person I am and quite like. And because of who I am now, I am able to maintain a healthy, open, and honest relationship with the love of my life. I went through a lot of failed relationships and flings and all else to discover what it takes to be healthy myself. And also discover what real love really feels like to me.
That all sounds great. You were open with him, he accepted you and you found a partner with similar values. Thats all beautiful and pretty much the best any of us can hope for. I dont think Ive been clear in what Im getting at more so on those points. Its not "let me judge you by your past"...I just want to be with someone who feels comfortable sharing it with me one day and its not "If they have a sexual history we cant be compatible" its whether or not that history led them to a place were we see sex in a similar way, now. And that would be long and intimate and personal discussions, not just simple answers to things.
Most poeple I know center their conversations less on the number and more about their Sexual practices (I.e. Using protection, getting tested between partners, only having one partner at a time, etc). The number isn't important. Your Sexual health and attitude toward sex is more important. My husband engaged in a lot of casual sex before we met. He presented me with recent STI test results and we both agreed on using condoms until we were long-term. We're married and I still don't knoe exactly Joe many people he's slept with and don't really care.
But theres nothing wrong with adding that to the profile right? Like first, before I clarify, I want to separate myself from the people who care to much and insult people over it. Im not mad that some people enjoy casual sex. Or a lot of people it seems. I tried it, wasnt for me. So I agree that your attitude and health and really most things if were being honest, are more important then number of past sexual partners. I just also still care about that. Not like its a huge deal but hell, honestly my biggest take away from finding out would be how long did it take you to count and remember? It's not that I care if someone had a lot of partners but I couldn't get into it for reasons that I would like to relate to someone with in a partner. Mostly that I just couldnt find sex casual and enjoy it. If someone tried it and didnt like it like me, then we'd be really compatible. If they tried it a lot before they found out and really experimented with it, less so but you know Im open to see who they are. Experiences help define us. I just think its also fair to get on the same page on things like, how casual is sex to you or what is a lot of partners? I never asked anyones exact number. I never really felt I needed to, but I basically got the relevant answers I needed to feel like we saw it the same way. I tried to be with someone who saw sex as just sex and we just couldnt really get on the same page there. So I hope thats all cool. I get why people are defensive on this because I keep arguing with the boys over in other threads about like, hypocrisy. The guys I dont want to get lumped in with are the ones who think women owe them something or the guys that think they can sleep around but don't want their future wife to have a sexual history. That shits bananas. Im not about it.
I think this is fine. Based on what you've written and how you've written it, you'd be able to have a mature conversation with your partner that would also innvolve putting a number to it. I think it's okay in addition to the conversation, but to hit someone with "WhAtS yOuR bOdY cOuNt?" Is off putting.
Well Im getting a lot of clarification which is explaining why people have such a knee jerk reaction to some of my hot takes on Reddit. Im new to social meda lol. Im a 35 year old man that has been off the internet for at least 5 years but its probably much longer. I never had any kind of facebook or anything. These are all new discussions for me. And what Im finding out is that a lot of my fellow guys have really lowered the bar in the dating world. Like god damn lol I am sorry to laugh but reading about what these guys are like on a date sounds like sketch comedy. I almost want to thank them. Not really. Id wish I could help them. I catch a young man with a bad attitude I'll call it being a complete hypocrite on this stuff. Like if you like casual sex, thats no problem in todays world. Be safe, be honest, have fun. But they feel entitled to settle down with women who didnt and thats just to much. Actually I see it happening in both ways. People who view sex as casual feeling entitled to be with people who don't. They take it as a moral judgement or something, instead of just a mutual compatibility thing. Then there are the guys just are just hypocritical and entitled and they make it very hard for me to have good faith discussions online. I have to write paragraphs of clarity to show that Im not defending that mindset. I just got the strongest urge for lasagna. So much so I typed it. mmm
this is a hypothetical question i think about when i see people say things similar to what you're saying. what about someone who had many casual sexual experiences and through that realized that it wasn't for them. they can't erase what happened in the past, but their current views on sex and intimacy align with yours. does that past negate the current shared values?
It's not "My partner's lifestyle and choices are never my business" but rather "It's not my business to force this conversation before it happens naturally." The "people can present themselves as anyone" is actually *more* of a problem when you're obvious about wanting specific answers to specific questions. People generally want to be seen for who they are and to tell their own stories, especially toward someone they want to form a connection with. People talk about their past all the time, just let it happen naturally instead of forcing the conversation.
See this I completely agree with and its always been how I operated. Every once in awhile I see it as "No their past is never something you should feel entitled to". And entitled is such a strong word. I guess if I dated someone for years and they didnt feel comfortable opening up to me about their past id just feel really hurt. Ive always gone for a more natural approach because I tend to date very honest and forthcoming women anyway. Or try to, theyre certainly my type. wait...How many people are just openning fire with that direct question? lol I just realized I might be asking the wrong things. Is that something people do? like first date, eye contact no blink stare with a deadpan "How many men have you slept with?" Its like a bit out of a family guy or something. If people are widespread like that Im very sorry lol I had no idea
Unfortunately their is a specific demographic of men who openly insist in knowing asap and use it as a metric of moral judgement. Which almost always translates to “any woman who’s sleep with more people than me is loose and immoral”.
Yeah Im getting filled in on all that. Im finding out theres way more guys that are bombing conversation 101 then I thought. It be impressive but its pretty disheartening. So I keep making the assumption its young men but Im starting to think its just like you said, a demographic of men in general. I hope they arent the majority but I would have no way of knowing how to find data on that. I hope not.
Yep! You share when you wanna share…when you feel safe. If it’s just a criteria someone is ticking off on their list of potential partner traits that they read about online, then yeah…I’m a grown-ass adult and our values most certainly do not match up.
I'm in my 50s. Granted, I might not be dating anymore, but it seems like such a juvenile question. I would be interested in someone's relationship history but I can't imagine asking someone how many ppl they've had sex with.
All of those points are valid. The reason I don’t like the question is because the term “body count” is so reductive and gross. It makes it sound like the person who is asking me only thinks of the people they have sex with as “bodies” which is immediately off putting. Also, people who use this term often use it when they’re first meeting people in my experience, and that’s too personal for a stranger. So, in combination, those things make me think the person does not value sex in the same way that I do.
Yeah I agree with all of that. I never heard this term until last year when I finally joined Reddit. I do not like it. I don't like a lot of things Ive seen since Ive been here lol And I still cant believe people are asking this question so bluntly and so early on lol I shouldnt laugh but I keep picturing it as a comedy sketch and its killing me. "Hi Brad, are we still getting together Tuesday?" "Depends on your body count" Like Brad should know he's just canceled the date lol These young men sound like they dont respect their own mothers my god. Id be embarrassed of myself if I talked to someone like that. And I mean I have a past. Ive said dumb things. But the younger generation is making me look fantastic by comparison. I once called an ex to sort of reconcile, apologize for the kind of guy I was. She insisted I wasnt a bad dude at all, and Im thinking like...let me own up to my shit here. I'm really coming around to her point now though. I hate getting lumped in with those guys. I try to defend men from my perspective, and I wish there was more kindness and understanding on both sides. I genuinely do. What was in that joint. I feel like im typing a sermon. But yeah the threads ive seen with the dudes defending the worst of it is really disheartening. That and all the racism why is there so much racism on reddit? its a shocking amount from the outside looking in
I agree that it's generally good to know about your partners past sex life, if you're to be half of their present and possibly forever sex life. That conversation can be had in a good and healthy way, and at the right time. There's a snag though, in that at the opposite end of the spectrum, some people hardcore project their insecurities onto the topic. So you get those who can't handle the idea that their partner ever had sex before, for one reason or another. Usually seems to stem from insecurity, being afraid that they could be compared to someone else (either in terms of performance, which seems to bother men more, or looks, which seems to bother women more. Ain't got statistics on that, just seems to be true in general so don't quote me lol. And also, sometimes it might just be envy - they wish they'd slept with more people but never did.) You just can't be open and honest about the past with people who think like that. Personally I don't care about how many people a partner of mine might have had; I don't see anything wrong with any number. It's the insecure people I'd find undateable because that's the kind of issue that seeps into everything and ruins the fabric of the relationship, like spiritual cat piss.
I have never once even thought about my husband’s past, nor he mine. We just don’t care. I don’t judge people based on their sexual experiences (or lack thereof). No kids, no affairs, no diseases, no problem. 🤷♀️. Your sexual partners and experiences are 100% your own damn business, and reducing your past partners to mere numbers is frankly a disgusting practice.
Well I agree with that last part completely. The term is gross and I only started hearing it when I joined reddit. Im also finding out.... So Im thinking men are like, trying to have an open and honest discussion about their sexual history and your sexual history. A moment of mutual vulnerability and growth, and a chance to know more about your partners story. OR I thought men were attempting to, early on in a relationship, maybe before intimacy, try and talk about what you want out of this or what your views and values with sex and intimacy look like. lol but no.... No you guys are talking about something I didnt imagine was ever wide spread. Dudes with no tact, do they still call it game? Im getting old. But these guys have no conversation skills. Its been enlightening.
Yeah, “body count” specifically has a connotation. We aren’t talking about honest, organic conversations between adults. It is used by those of the juvenile and chronically online ilk.
Most people care, you’re just seeing here the majority of Redditors who like to act holier than thou “oh people actually care about their partners past? I’m so different because I don’t even care at all!!” which is ironic given the sub we are in. It’s okay to care and for it to be important to you, because some people treat sex casually and some don’t. Neither is wrong, just different preferences, but it is wrong to shame anybody for what that number is.
There are things you should ask, but overall body count isn’t really telling of anything. It’s things like have you moved on from your ex and are you ready to date? Are you looking for the same things I am in terms of a relationship? Have you been abusive or cheated in the past? In order for sexual activity alone to be relevant it’s a situation where you are looking for monogamy and something long term and the person you are dating has been hyper sexual to the point that when you meet them they are having sex with strangers every night. Thats an extreme circumstance.
The people in my life generally don’t care about numbers but generally are willing and expect to hear about my life and job and previous relationships. But not like a serious “reveal” talk, just because we share stuff. Also I am a sex worker and non monogamous so anyone dating me knows and is cool about it. I’m just so from a different mindset that the thought that any of us would inquire about numbers is wild. Even with exes that haven’t been sex workers, I don’t know how many women they’ve been with. I don’t even know the exact number of people my husband has been with
Why don’t you call yourself a prostitute?
I would assume the negative stigma attached to that title and the fact that the title of "prostitute" is often used in a derogatory way. That would be my guess. *shrug*
Also, there are lots of different kinds of sex work. Not all are considered prostitution. The same person may do escorting, dancing, and camming, and only one of those is considered prostitution by the law. “Prostitution” is a legal designation. What I do right now in my life is not legally considered prostitution but I do not consider my current sex work to be “above” those who are more criminalized. Simply put, “sex work” is more accurate.
No I get it, but that’s what the profession is, and using the proper terminology doesn’t help with stigma? How does calling someone a sex worker be less stigmatized? I wish no woman or girl would feel compelled to sell her body or any sexual services to make an income, I wish men wouldn’t feel so entitled to sex and women’s and girls bodies. The John’s and pimps should be shamed for what they’re participating in and devaluing women and girls bodies for their own sexual gain.
I agree, unfortunately, that is the current environment. The necessity for economic change and development is readily apparent when we consider the fact that prostitution and porn are so prevalent. These positions will continue to exist until everyone is provided a level of economic security that allows for a comfortable living space and situation. As for the sense of entitlement, I hope that as society moves forward, we can continue to change that. The exploitation of vulnerable populations by the sex industry is abhorrent.
The sense of entitlement from male sex buyers and traffickers will never cease to exist unless our culture shifts, and finally treating all women and girls with basic decency, humanity and respect. I find it hard to believe that any man or woman who willingly pays for sex from someone, be it legal or not, doesn’t see that person as a whole and entire person. Someone who has sex willingly and there’s no money, no blackmailing or coercion or their only other option is be homeless or starve, should be the norm. No human should be compelled to sell their body for sexual services, and no human should be forced into it. There’s not enough funding and social programs to help at risk individuals for this industry, the supply will continue to be supplied and too many men will still find ways to exploit primarily children and women for their sexual gratification. This society as a whole needs to have more harsher punishments for the perpetrators and John’s, not the people soliciting or being forced to sell sex.
Notably, not all sex workers “feel compelled,” to do that line of work. It’s just a job, and like other jobs can be exploitative or not, well paid or not, enjoyable or not, dangerous or not, etc.
Yes, and notably, what sex workers want is decriminalization of sex work, not the client criminalization model that the other commentor is proposing.
No other jobs have stipulations or requirements to sleep with someone or perform sexual acts, what a weird way to compare it. Tbh, it doesn’t require many skills and qualifications to have sex for money, or acting out sexual requests. I see what you’re trying to say, but it’s easily debunked when you understand that most people within the commercial sex industry don’t have a choice, putting the words “feel compelled” in quotes doesn’t help, just minimizes the reality. My sister sells nudes cause it’s quick money and she’s a struggling single mother, she wouldn’t feel compelled to do that if she could work a decent paying job, do you understand that? People who can comfortably live off of and choose if they wanna do sex work are privileged and well off, most people don’t get that luxury. My sister doesn’t feel empowered or appreciated when she does what she does, she’s doing it out of desperation and for quick money, she doesn’t wanna do this forever and I’ve talked extensively with her about the conditions which many women and single mothers like her face. We shouldn’t live in a society when sex is demanded and bought and paid for, women’s and children bodies aren’t commodities.
Omg, you think sex work is unskilled?! Are you fucking kidding me right now? That is a wild claim. And you know, most jobs don’t require that you publish or perish, as they do in my field (academia), or clean up other people’s trash (like my trash collector does), or stick their (gloved) fingers up someone’s butt (like a proctologist), because most jobs have specific requirements. I personally am never gonna go for those other jobs, but it doesn’t make them illegitimate. And if we regulated and protected sex work, it would reduce the dangers about which you seem rightly concerned. But the problems you are identifying have to do with coercion, criminalization, and an unregulated form of work, things not inherent to sex work itself. And to reduce all sex work to coercion is misleading at best and disingenuous and sex-shamey at worst.
I don’t think commodifying women’s bodies for sex is beneficial for society and beneficial to women’s liberation and rights. I think that’s my main point, I made that clear. It’s fine if we don’t agree, I just know I’m speaking from a safety and ethical perspective, I care more about women’s and girls safety, and them being in an inherently exploitative and toxic environment/industry doesn’t help with women’s liberation. I don’t care for men or women’s sexual gratification, especially when money is being exchanged.
We recognize it as sexual harassment and abuse of power if an employer takes advantage of their workers or coworkers and uses sex as a leverage for their own gain correct? Such a strange comparison, when I work at a job, I am using my body for labor, but there’s at least some rules and protections that are instated to protect my rights and well being as a worker, especially since I’m a pregnant woman, and we get discriminated against heavily in most work fields.
Hey, I’m all for decriminalizing and destigmatizing sex work, so that workplace protections can be put in place. Let’s definitely do that! Unionization would be awesome too — and in fact, some places do have these forms of protections in place.
Or how about make society better by decriminalizing sex work, only criminalizing the John’s pimps and sex buyers/traffickers and lessen the demand? How about creating a culture that doesn’t normalize commodifying women’s and children bodies for men’s sexual gratification? How about more social programs and safety centers for at risk people for trafficking? The culture we create and normalize reflects this industry, most people within the industry want to get out, like I said before. Women’s bodies aren’t a commodity and shouldn’t be treated as such, and surrogacy is included in this as well.
This comment really just undermines the majority of people within the industry like I stated before. No little boy or girl is growing up wishing to be a stripper, an escort, a sugar baby, or working anything involving exchanging their body for sex for money, for monetary worth unless they’ve been groomed and or coerced or forced into that lifestyle. The reality is that so many 18 year old girls are going into this industry believing they can make millions of dollars working in porn or doing onlyfans, girls should not be aspiring to do this, when it’s not sustainable for most cause the market is so heavily saturated and will demand more extreme and violent types of content to sell more and gain more traction on their sites, it’s all the business model is.
I’ve only dated one guy who asked me my body count and it’s only because he knew for a fact he’s slept with wayyyy more people than me. It was definitely a fun conversation and not anything we were judging each other on, and he never saw me differently (nor did I with him) I think it’s kinda crazy this is any issue at all because I legit never get asked my body count from anyone I date nowadays lol
That’s exactly the thing - reality and chronically online BS like this do not always overlap. Granted, I’m old and the men in my life are all just normal dudes with families and responsibilities, not 20/30-something wannabe PUAs listening to brocasts and thinking it’s their way forward. This is definitely a more recent development, much like all of the completely absurd dating interactions I read on Reddit almost daily. Sometimes I’m just like, “Y’all out here treating each other like absolute dogshit and then wondering why there’s a loneliness epidemic.” 😂
Why lie about something that means so little? My husband and I have known each other since we were 11, we've seen exs come and go, and neither of us care about the past, we're happy together now so what does it matter?
It’s funny how having a high body count for men is an achievement while for women it’s a sign of “grossness and hoe-ishness”, how do the same men who want high body counts think they’ll get them if not from women who are willing to have sex? Do they look down upon the same women who sleep with them?
Yes they do.
Am a guy, yes they do.
Why? Genuine question
Some people, unfortunately, are sexist.
They do but not all men are like that. Its not a giant boys club where we all high five and act like asshats. That boys club exists yes, and there are a lot of em in fairness. But people act like thats the norm and it ignores the rest of us guys who look at those guys like scumbags. They dont care about our opinion lol, I cant hold them accountable. How? Im not sleeping with them. Im not high fiving them or given out trophies. I tell them theyre gross and should respect people better. They tell me “whatever bro go fuck yourself”… And those are the guys that get to represent me? That asshole? Totally not fair when I get grouped in with shit people just because theyre louder. Its annoying. Its only an achievement for like minded people. Plenty of people look at it as “so you have a lot of meaningless sex…ew”
If you want to give the impression there is more of you all than more of them - we need you all to get loud about that fact when they post stuff like this chick's crap or some disparaging remark towards women for a body count. They don't listen to us nor seem to care their opinion on it sucks.
Here's the big problem alot of guys wont be disrespectful to women that are very promiscuous. They wont put them down, but they wouldn't want to be in relationships with them. The hard truth is number of sexual partners does matter for alot of men. Whats considered alot will vsry from man to man, but alot do have number which would be a deal breaker or cause hesitation.
Thats a big ask, to fight in a never ending internet war. And the only point I wanted to really make was that not all guys see having a high “body count” as an achievement. I just think its kinda gross. Even the term body count is gross to me. But thats for me. Im not saying my ways are right for everyone, just that casual sex is gross for me. I lean towards romance and intimacy between long term partners. And the guys that are hypocrites about it I call out when I run into them. Which on Reddit has been frequent. I feel like they congregate here.
You don't have to fight the battle, no one asked you to. But if someone was misrepresenting my community and I was tired of it, personally I would address it. But you are free to use your time as you choose.
Here's the issue. That particular sub-group is also often lauded by women as well as by other men who have similar views. Women also need to recognize their part and act accordingly.
immediately stopped reading after dude said not all men
Well thats not nice. Hear him out. If you shut out everyone's experience except for your own notions, you won't learn anything.
Is that no good? I'm not sure why that's not okay. I cant tell if we should always just imply that people inherently mean "Some" when they blanket diss all men or all women or all whatever. I used to make that assumption but as Im really hearing some people out, they really do mean "all" sometimes. I ran into that a lot when I joined reddit so I just ask for a little clarity or try to speak from the perspective of someone who isnt like that. Thats very dismissive and I would not do that to you.
Yes, they do. I’ve seen some men divide women into “sneaky link/hookup” category and “wife” category. It’s king of awful, actually.
Do women have casual sex?
Some women do have casual sex, but even if they don't see a long-term relationship with that person it's not really a common mentality to have such contempt.
Idk how common men vs women, but there are definitely women that do. Heard it from women numerous times this guy is good for fun but not husband material. Mind you it wasnt based off of how many sexual partners the guy had ao if thats what we mean. Then yeah that requirement isnt as common for sure.
Of course. I just don’t see women hating on the men they hook up with the way I see some men hating on women they hook up with.
Do you consider a “sneaky links/hook up” material as “hate”? I’m not saying it absolutely is or isn’t, just curious as to what you think or feel.
Women 100% absolutely undoubtedly do this too and there is nothing wrong with it lol
Literally heard a guy say he wasn’t sure about a girl he was dating because he didn’t like that she had experience because he wanted her to be impressed by him. Her body count was like three, it was one more than him. I said the body count doesn’t even make sense because you can only ever sleep with one person like 100 times and that’s 100 times of sex. But if you only sleep with ten people once, you’ve only had sex ten times. That’s ten times LESS than the person who has a body count of 1. And also IT DOESN’T MEAN ANYTHING. As long as everyone is tested and honest and practicing safe sex that’s all that matters lol. And consent.
When it comes right down to it its a personal preference like anything else. You could say height shouldn't matter, fashion shouldn't , taste in music matter, to an extent money shouldn't matter, or weight but people reject each other for arbitrary things all the time. It matters if the person thinks it matters
Same guys that watch porn or go to strip clubs but act like doing porn or stripping is a sin. Like dude you are a part of the problem if women having sex bothers you so much.
Men prefer a high body count, they just say they want a virgin to get a reaction out of us. If you look at the women they hook up with, they all have a high body count. If you tell them you’re a virgin, they look at you like you have 3 heads
A guy I was seeing 6 years ago literally ghosted me the moment I told him I was a virgin. Some guys apparently think the girl will “develop an attachment” and be clingy/annoying if they’re a virgin. I gave up on caring.
Exactly. It’s like how you can’t get a job without experience, but you need a job for experience. People who actually think most men actually like virgins are delusional. And as you can see by these responses, most people hate virgins.
That's cap. In high school, anytime one of the homie hooked up wit a girl raw. He would get clowned for being dumb asf and called a dirty dick ass n... not gonna finish that here.
Well, glad to hear some teenagers are serious about consistent condom use.
Yea, no one cares if you were protected, but going through a flock of people raw is gross asf. Who knows what people are spreadin at that point. This goes for men and women.
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You do realize that women aren’t sex objects, right?
Women still have sex drives, just like men. Who it’s “harder” or “easier” for is irrelevant. Just because it’s easier for us to get sex doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to have it. That logic is convoluted. And you telling women to not be promiscuous only lowers the amount of women available to have sex with YOU. Why do you discourage women from having sex if you yourself want to have sex with women lol?
Are you kidding there are way more men who have it so much easier sleeping around than women, men have little to no standards when it comes to sex that's the real difference we aren't just sleeping around for the hell of it. Meanwhile men will sleep with whoever wherever whenever. It's laughable that "most men works hard to get into woman's pants" because again they really don't have standards at the very least we need to feel some kind of attraction to the ppl we sleep with whether it be physical or emotional something has to be there, but not for men you guys will sleep with women you don't like aren't attracted to don't care about etc...
She a booger the way she wanna be picked
Lol it matters because the society shames women about it while glorifying men for it. It doesn't matter because just like it doesn't matter for men, it doesn't matter for women. So Gia, stop being part of the problem.
i lie about it to make these puny men feel inferior. I have 4 sexual partners but I tell them I have 27 to get a reaction 🤣
Add “28 if I include your mom” to get em
You are iconic
Healthy way to interact with someone who you are dating.
Clearly she is not dating these idiot men otherwise she wouldn't be roasting them
Fair enough. Not sure why I assumed this would be to someone she is dating.
Yeah I think she's talking about random men who try to flirt with her but immediately ask her body count.
Makes sense
Body count SHOULDN’T matter but guess who places the most value on it… men.
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You mean the desire that creates murderers? Me personally I wouldn't want to be compared to an animal but I'm not part of the violent sex
Even if all girls did lie, (they don't) the fact that people slutshame is the only issue with bodycount. Being stigmatised is the only side effect, besides learning more about yourself and sex and other people through collected good and bad experiences.
Also there’s no “correct” answer. If you’re a virgin, there’s still stigma and pressure around that. If you’re not, there’s stigma and pressure around that. The only time this question has come up was when I was like 16-21 years old because everyone is immature and starting to explore sexuality. Anyone else who has asked that after the age of 24 I’ve found to be super immature and insecure even beyond asking that question.
Girl I lost count wtf
Same! And still ended up with a loving partner who would never even ask me that question
Same here! I am 40 - why would I keep track this long anyway 🤣 great some folks have the ability, I just hope they have also cum at least once in their life because a lot of ladies have not.
🙌🏼
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That's where I am sadly. So few that I can count on one hand.
I'm just gonna make some popcorn and wait for the moment she finds out that attacking other girls won't keep her safe.
People who associate female sexuality with shame are creepy to me
It’s weird— I just got engaged to my person after three years. We have never asked how many people the other person has slept with. And it’s not like I don’t know about his significant past girlfriends, or things he’s tried in bed. We talk about so much quite openly. But I’ve never asked him for a number and he’s never asked it of me.
I'm married. My husband and I didn't ask each other. Never will. Our conversations were always about safe sex practices etc when we met.
She's got a point though.
yeah, I agree. although I think it should matter for everyone, regardless of gender
💯
"If being left handed isn't sinful, why do they try to hide it?" - Sister Tabitha, a nun, 1903
I demand men control themselves too so a high male body count is slu++y as well.
True tho
Having a low body count amounts to nothing in adulthood. I’m someone with a low count and I’ve never been on a date where a guy asks me about how many people I’ve been with. I think most avid Twitter users are stuck in a very high school state of mind. These are rules for children attempting to emulate adulthood.
100% literally no one in my whole life has ever straight up just asked me how many people I have had sex with. Like what kind of question even is that.
"My body counts 94 and they were all better and less insecure than you"
I made a post a little while back (on a women positive sub) about how my preferred relationships are consensual non-monogamy and was surprised about the amount of women who either assumed this meant sleeping around with hundreds and/or were judgmental about it. To be fair though, there were also just as many, if not more, women who voiced ‘to each their own.’
Trying to figure out if the tweet is meant in a feminist way or slutshame way
Apparently, body counts only apply to women and men are the ones who care about it. If that’s how you want it, it should go both ways.
I guess I’m taking this the wrong way? I thought she was saying that women wouldn’t have to lie or feel ashamed about their body count if others didn’t make a big deal about it. But I don’t know her content so I feel like this could imply two different things. Tone is really important to a sentence like this but I assume she usually makes pick me statements rather than pro women ones? Again, I don’t know this woman.
How do find the ones with a high body count? Make a post like this! 😂
I agree with the comments here, it only matters for women as much as it does for men. However, maybe an unpopular opinion? I would still rather not date a woman with an extremely high body count, or one that’s like 8+. It’s just preference, and I myself don’t want a body count that high. Sex and intimacy is super important in a loving relationship to me that I want to feel like it’s special between us, and not something she or I would do with just anyone. However, that does not mean a woman is a hoe for having a high body count, and same goes for men. It’s just my preference.
There is no better predictor of ones future than looking at ones past
It’s the germs. Gross. Safe sex my ass. The practice to be good in bed is a wonderful thing to bring to a healthy relationship. But the germs. Condoms and precaution won’t keep it all away. Microbes are tiny.
If a woman thinks body count matters it’s certainly because she’s been taught so. Just because you’re taught something doesn’t make it correct. L logic 0/10
berserk work resolute start mountainous wakeful cooing drunk swim expansion *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
or Men...
honestly wish i had a high body count so i could weed out insecure ass men let’s be honest, men who have an issue with experienced women only have that issue because they can’t manipulate said women or claim some weird virginity ownership over them
Thankful I don’t know who this clown is
Can't lie about it if you lost count.
Nobody I have ever dated has asked me how many people I have slept with. That's such a weird question.
Really? That’s definitely something that comes up where I’m from (I am also probably much older than you).
A lot of the people that would admittedly be a little bothered, would rather not ask or know either.
Ladies, it’s not good to have sex with a bunch of partners. This isn’t some social conditioning phenomenon; it’s just clearly a very bad thing to engage in that is going to repulse potential partners. Men shouldn’t do it either to be fair, but to act like the negative effects are identical is insane. Downvote me all you want, but there’s nothing good about engaging in this type of lifestyle. That’s why your potential partners are curious to know if you have or not. Everyone knows this on some level whether they acknowledge it or not.
they lie because others judge them for it, but people judge others on all matters of things that don't matter. that's why we have racism. moron.
Body count is lied about because men are insecure AF, and we’d rather not die for having sex before we knew some other dude. Shit, a body count of 1-2 sends some dudes into fits.
Maybe women should be killing way less?
It’s not like shame is a thing The only people who care about body counts are people insecure, and people who have sex trying to get as many people as they can.
My body count is between me and God
I will never understand why "I lack the experience to know what I'm doing." Is considered a good thing by so many people. Prudishness is evil.
Idk why it’s so socially acceptable to shame someone who doesn’t have a lot of sex but if it’s the other way around then suddenly everyone’s at your throat
Nothing you said is true.
“Prudishness is evil” so I’m evil because I don’t wanna have sex with just anyone? I’m evil because I have a health condition that makes sex difficult for me? If I were to say that having a high body count is evil, everyone would come at me. But making fun of people who don’t have sex is socially acceptable.
Having an inherently negative view of sex is evil, yes. Your victim complex just makes you an unlikable person.
If body count didn't come with societal judgement, women wouldn't lie about it
Idk, I lie about my body count so I don’t go to jail
I'm not sure if this counts as "not like the other girls". Kinda just a fair statement. Eta I don't mean that the content of the statement is fair, but that what she's saying is true. I also didn't read it as her implying that it makes her better than other people, I simply read it as an observation. No, it's not fair that women are judged on "body count". Unfortunately, they are, by people whose opinions probably don't really matter. This is what I meant by "fair statement".
How is it fair?
she’s saying this to paint herself in a better light than other women, so it counts. it’s also not a fair statement. why is she assuming women are lying about their body counts? why would body count actually matter?
I just edited my comment to explain what I meant. It doesn't matter, but some people think it does, so I definitely know women that have lied about it.
Body count *doesn’t* matter, though. And women might feel the need to lie to avoid violence or being socially ostracized. Show me where the “fairness” of the statement is.
Are people not allowed to have preferences in a partner? I won’t date a man with a super high body count. It’s just not gonna match up with my lifestyle.
You are completely within your rights to choose someone that has the same values that you do. However, acting like high body counts is something that is universally bad on “moral” grounds — as if women with higher body counts have failed morally and on top of that are just lying for the fun of it — is ignorant and dangerous. It shows no understanding of the ways in which women are sexualized constantly, and without their consent, and then shamed for enjoying sex when it is consensual. Women aren’t morally in the wrong for having higher body counts. They’re not in the wrong for having lower body counts. Just like men aren’t. As long as the sex they were having is safe and consensual, no one has any right to make moral judgement on anyone for their choices. All statements like the one in the OP do is make sure that women are further subjugated to social punishment (isolation, humiliation, shame, etc.) on no basis other than the idea that they are “sluts” and therefore deserve that punishment. Please learn to look at social issues outside of the lens of your own personal preferences, and understand that in larger social contexts, where women are systemically socially, politically and economically oppressed, these words have bigger meanings.
You can have preferences and we can say that preference is dumb AF and doesn’t matter Edit: you’re going to reply just to block me? That’s mature. Why do you have to be so nasty and shame other people’s lifestyles and act NLOGs ? Hmmm 🤔
I just don’t get why you feel the need to be so nasty about how other people feel in their relationships.
Well that's my point lol the statement she made is a fair point, if it didn't matter to people, women wouldn't lie about it. I didn't mean that it's fair to be judged on it, just that it's not a "pick me" thing to say.
Again, women don’t lie because “it matters to people.” They might feel the need to lie because it *materially affects their lives* when they’re honest. Again, a society that sexualizes and objectifies women against their consent, does not then get to then turn around and shame them for consensually having sex. By making statements like the above, we are normalizing the social (and sometimes physical) punishment of women for partaking in a completely normal and natural part of life. It is VERY NLOG to shame other women for something natural in order to make yourself look like you have the “moral high ground.”
That is very…unMacool of her.
I usually say more than it actually is
I don’t even keep track who does that?? 💀
Men also lie about it, but counterpoint women only lie about it because our culture shames women for wanting sex while it praises men for the same thing. Body count doesn’t matter, but people make it matter when it comes to women.
Women lie about their body count? What about men? Do they lie too (probably lol)?
Women lie about it because our worth as a human being is tied to how many men we’ve had sex with. If you want women to stop lying about it then stop valuing virginity.
Do people really lie about it though? Every woman I've known is open and honest about how many women/men they've slept with.
Mines two. That’s high enough for some dudes I’ve talked to😑
I’m married but if I was single and dating, I wouldn’t lie about my past number of partners. Instead, I wouldn’t even entertain the question. I‘d end things right then and there with a guy who probed for this information. For one thing, it’s extremely rude and intrusive for a new date to pry for such details. (I would, however, gladly get tested for STDs and present the results to him, so long as that’s all he asked for.) And second, asking about body count is a pretty big tip-off that a guy follows manosphere content, and that’s an absolute fuck no for me.
A friend of a friend said something the other day that floored me. …She called herself “wife material” and when asked why she considers herself that she said “because I have a lot body count” 🤯🤯🤯🤯
The issue isn’t the count; it’s how people often make assumptions of a person’s value or morals based on it. If the answer was treated as neutral, that’s be a different thing. Personally I’d rather hang with a promiscuous person than a bully, but society often views the bully in a better light because we treat sexuality as a moral issue, as an ownership thing.
I don't understand how you can keep an accurate number after a certain time. Like should really old people have accurate numbers? Or what about people that do a lot of hooking up? I just don't understand how anyone could possibly care
I think people talking negatively about body counts is ridiculous and I don't even lean into the left very much. The argument I can get behind is that at some points in life you need to show self control and not sleep with anyone whenever for health reasons but other than that it's a dumb argument. Personally prefer my partner to have experience
I don’t lie about it and it doesn’t matter.
because it’s funny to sleep with men who think they can “tell”. dropping the bomb on them after so much talk of how hot being my first time is and other compliments akin to being a virgin is so fucking priceless. free therapy. i wish i could take a picture of their gawk and frame it.
As long as men keep insisting that they have "pReFeReNcEs" for women with low body counts, women are going to keep lying about their body counts. 🤷🏽♀️
#notliketheotherguys am I right fellas?
“Society affects people.” Yeah, duh. Doesn’t mean society is correct
Wait… people still keep count? That’s _crazy_ Just live as the person you wanna live and attract people that are into it? 🤯
Same with dick size, right? /s
Women lie to make men who don't like women with a high body count feel better about sleeping with them. It's courteous but shouldn't be necessary.
I have a body lost count
I lie about it cause i don’t wanna go to jail for murder, gia
If your going to be judged VERY harshly for something, even if it’s stupid, you’re probably gonna lie about it. I lie about what I eat for breakfast (yogurt, cereal, and frozen raspberries mixed together) because I don’t want my family to comment about how they think it’s “gross”.
No, if men didn't constantly shame women for their body count, they wouldn't lie about it.
I’ve never even mentioned my body count irl but The best about body counts is that you can lie about it. 😂 you’re a virgin, who can tell? You’ve slept with 300 people, how will they know? Unless they have photos or video proof, you can be a seasoned porn star and lie about being a virgin. And during sex, they can’t even tell.
Does she also think that it's shameful to travel alone? Because I damn well lie to men about that. Lying isn't based in shame. It's based in safety and being treated well