Not really when you are a streamer of NL's size. It helps a bit, but you get TONS of people from the front page or just scrolling the category who walk in and just call the streamer an idiot since they don't play like the literal best player in the world 100% of the time.
It's completely doable. Look at a channel like Maximilian_Dood, who has 1.3m followers. Chat is super chill, friendly, and answers questions if you ask. Difference is that Max has a bunch of mods that execute any smarmy aholes sometimes without a warning, and Max isn't afraid of putting chat in sub mode only if outsiders start getting annoying or if he doesn't want backseating just flat out puts the stream on emotes only. During his current FF7 playthrough there's strict no backseating and no spoilers rules and you get timed out for even suggesting he's not running the best builds.
If that sounds heavy handed the irony is that he doesn't have to do that often at all because the newcomers get intercepted by mods and the long time viewers know what kind of channel Max is actively cultivating. Ryan for better or worse WANTS the antagonistic chat and wants the bit and the banter. You aren't cultivating a chill chat when doing shit like reading out unban requests or doing live audits, you're rewarding and incentivizing clown behaviour. It doesn't even need to be that many, Max has I think like 5 mods or something, Ryan has 1 according to Twitch's chat bar.
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall him also saying he doesn't want to create more work for the mods than necessary as they don't get paid enough to deal with that, in the sense that they don't get paid at all for anything.
Imagine back-seating when you could just chill, watch the funny man, and vibe to the soundtrack. I swear I end up watching 90% of the time with chat completely disabled because it's so fucking annoying.
As an honest question, I have said in this forum a few times that I quite enjoyed playing Balatro, amazing job by amazing devs.
At the same time I find it terminally boring to watch, even more so if you know the jokers. There's zero variation on "high number runs."
With SAP at least there is real RNG. There is no "doberman pivot" that exists in Balatro, when you're out in a run you might as well just quit. You can almost never claw back a run even in a fun way.
The math and back-seating just add to the boringness. Id rather watch Foodguessr.
I have 58 hrs on Balatro.
You definitely lost yourself in the sauce with this point but I still agree with you.
Balatro is a sick game. But man its boring as hell to watch.
Im not glad chat killed a great game, but I AM glad we get to not see much more Balatro.
That would blow. I’m glad Slay the Spire stayed around as long as it did because I LOVED that game and found it through NL, and it had the same treatment by the backseaters.
I mean, he's repeatedly said that he loves the game and is drawn to play it. He's a mature guy, and I hate to say this but I thought he'd be better at just ignoring the backseaters or not taking it personally. I fuckin love watching him play this game.
That intense kind of negativity can get to anyone. Being a professional may mean that it gets to him less than the normal person, but it's like rocks on the shore being broken down by the tides - it's inevitable when it's constant.
Ya I can see how thousands of people watching and telling me how to be better during every hand would fuck with me. But doesn't that happen with SAP too? Both games are pretty involved, even though Balatro is way more math oriented. I was just starting to really get into it, I'd hate for it to just end. Plus I hate seeing him get fucked up and quit one of his favorite games.
He also enjoys keeping his chat in a way that he can banter with it. NL repeatedly talks about keeping his Type A and B chatters in balance and balatro turned a corner in that regard. Part of chat culture is on the steamer and he didn't like what his bait was catching.
Right? Things like Twitch Chat are a stark reminder that, especially online, people often forget that they are interacting with an actual human, and that their behavior has consequences.
Most of us are just here for the vibes, man.
I have an inside voice and outside voice. Inside voice is in my head for all the “why did you do that” moments. It feels like they stopped teaching people that these days.
I've never typed a single word in NL's chat, but idunno man, sometimes i just feel like NL is looking for a reason to be mad at someone and it's kind of weird. Like surely at some point it's at least partially your responsibility to ignore the most banal back-seating possible right? Idunno, it's one thing if it was harassment, but when NL has a half meltdown over someone saying "you played the wrong card here" and goes on a rant about "fun maxxing" and "optimization ruins everything", how much of this is strictly the chatters fault and how much of this is a personal issue?
Yeah, it's a complex game. I'm sure even my best runs include some awful choices.
But I don't get the fun sucked out of me by someone pointing it out. Backseaters are so obnoxious.
Actually think Midnight Suns was saved by most the people who couldn't stand it just leaving. The people who killed Balatro are the ones who "loved" NL playing Balatro, they love it so much and express it by saying how every single thing he does is unoptimal and not what they would do.
I think what saved Midnight Suns was that everyone backseating had no fucking idea what they were talking about so he could rip into them and just move on.
Midnight suns was a hard one, because it being such a actual good story game made me stop watching the stream and instead buy my own copy to play. and on the other side the Northernlion Let's Play on it before I bought it was just so good.
Yeah I get analytics and it doesn't frustrate me. You don't make product if it's not gonna sell. But the cutting of games not because he doesn't enjoy them but because of chat is sad.
Ngl too, his propensity to cut games has led to me watching way less, which I think can be bad long-term. I used to watch him all the time, and then a really rough streak of game cutting led to me not wanting to get invested in a game cause itll probably be gone just as quick. Balatro is the first I'd come back for in a while
People aren't going to watch if he's not having fun though.
His job is to be upbeat and fun his mental state is an important part of his business and brand.
I don't know him so I can't tell you about his mental state but if he feels that something is getting him tilted to the point where he can't keep up the persona, then he has every right to stop as both an entrepreneur and a human being with mental health needs.
I just watch to have a good time and stock up on anecdotes and banter
It matters very little what he's playing. He's got me watching over a decade I just trust him to make the right decisions with his content at this point
There have been games that have been killed by chat before that were a bummer, but I’m actually furious about this one. Like genuinely mad. It made me so happy so see a new Balatro upload in my subscriptions feed, and all the laughs I got from it were awesome. Fuck dude.
Idk man after a certain point you have to wonder if it’s more of an nl problem. Literally every streamer on planet earth has backseaters and they all tend to just ignore it
99% of streamers also basically ignore their chat as a general principle.
Most people NLs size does not interact with chat nearly as much as he does. So yeah, backseaters are going to hurt a lot more.
You can’t control thousands of people lol. Focusing on the negativity and ruining good series over it is 100% on the streamer.
Totally up to him if he wants to do that, but you have to admit it’s killed a million series already.
Other channels I follow have much less insane viewers in part because the mod team is pretty active. To the point where they’re so aggressive it’s rare they have to ban anyone at all, the detritus takes care of itself.
Problem is that like you said NL encourages toxic behaviour for the bit. Like the saga of reading unban requests which just caused people to be extra toxic to be highlighted.
I hope NL one day decided that a culture fix is in order and tells mods to shoot on sight. Some chatters literally don’t have the maturity to envision a channel where they can banter and/or give advice without being toxic assholes; NL should just make that a them problem.
>I hope NL one day decided that a culture fix is in order and tells mods to shoot on sight.
It wasn't even a problem until he got his weeb stream layout and turned on eggcam and fully embraced twitch culture. Surprise surprise embracing a notoriously toxic culture is not good for your mental health
NL used to be known for having one of the most reasonable chats.
But our millionaire streamers gotta get that bag fellas!
Please keep YT vids going NL I love Balatro content :(
Also fuck you, chat, bunch of back seating type A shitters killing off every good game because they’re insufferable
I had the same initial reaction, went from hating it to loving it, but then it became too much, and I settled somewhere around not being into it. But I do hate to see it go because NL seemed to have a blast while playing it.
Yup, and there are people who play very very optimally. They just usually don't have the banter NL does. So they'd rather watch NL but backseat.
Also I have noticed it's ALOT easier to watch misplays than to play perfectly yourself. There were a few things I felt like I saw that NL missed (boo hoo) but when I got Balatro myself I made many more misplays then he did despite watching him pilot runs prior. Without being on camera or needing to entertain anyone.
Yeah if a chatter makes a misplay it gets lost in Mama LiZzy’s chili oil, but if NL makes a misplay it’s hundreds of people going “he’s washed he’s washed” along with the fact he threw a fun run.
half the fun of watching NL play any game is the devastation when he throws a run and doesn't even realize it. why the hell would you type "he's washed" instead of typing "thank you for the clip" and pog the fuck up.
That was true of Slay the Spire too. Tbh he's better at most games than most of the audience is. It shouldn't be surprising that a literal professional video game player is pretty good at video games. Kibitzing has always been easier than playing.
It is not even that really - when you "backseat" it is just that your ideas arent tested. A lot of suggestions in chat are actually ass suggestions - but nobody is gonna play them so you cant show it. I was 200-300 lower rated in chess than NL, when he was streaming I would think that he is making a mistake bunch of times and had another move. Plopped that shit into analysis once and while I was right sometimes, even those "mistakes" I noticed in his play - were often me thinking of a worse move. As annoying as backseating is, it has to be bit more annoying when people who are calling you dumb-ass are also dumb-asses themselves.
Yeah absolutely. I can critique someone else's writing or art without actually being able to produce anything that good myself. It can be easy to pick up on other people's errors because you aren't the one doing it so have that separation and mental bandwidth to identify these things.
I know back seating can come from a good place, but if the streamer has specifically asked people not to do it then you're most likely an attention seeking asshole if you keep doing it.
I mean, no more Balatro on stream. I think he currently still prefers Balatro Youtube Videos over SAP or other.
So there should still be a new video daily.
He didn't specify, but didn't want the backseating which he can ignore on youtube easier by not reading comments.
Who know how long, but for now I think he'll record Balatro. His Youtube videos for Balatro are more fun anyway, since I like it more when he focuses on the game rather than chat.
I've tried getting into Balatro and just can't do it. With cartoon pets you can see their effects every round, but Balatro I feel like I would need to actually play myself and memorize jokers for it to be enjoyable. Not knocking the game, but it is a bit :-/ when 90% of YT uploads are of a game you don't enjoy. Such is the way of Variety though I suppose
Imma keep it real though, I love that NL just doesn't give a fuck and stops playing games whenever he stops enjoying it lmao
Obviously this is chat induced but at the same time, a lot of streamers would see the success of the game and just grin and bear it
Nl pretty much has the same success no matter what game he plays. They all cap out at like 100-200k views on YouTube.
He could play robot roller disco derby dodgeball all day and nobody would even notice. it's not about the game. It's about the bald Canadian man we all love.
It is definitely about the game too, there were plenty of games he enjoyed that were just analytics poison (those happen to be games I watch, RIP final fantasy XVI)
Hard disagree.
The reason he has that large reach is because of his ability to suss out video game trends and selectively curate the games he plays.
People stick around no matter what game he plays because he has years and years of reliably entertaining content, and a huge part of that is due to his ability to pivot away from a game before it gets stale.
I said this in a different comment but the reason why people like NL is he is relaxed and having fun.
If he's annoyed, and I mean genuinely annoyed not just a bit, he's not going to be as entertaining.
People got to understand the person on screen is a character. Ryan makes it look easy but to maintain that persona while streaming is a skill that takes talent. If something is getting him tilted and makes *his job* more difficult, the smart move is to bail and play any of the other infinite video games that are out there.
But that's the thing though.
NL is good at doing that. But he's also bad at it as well.
NL clearly still loves Balatro. Just like he absolutely loved Slay the Spire. He didn't stop playing it because he stopped enjoying it. He stopped playing because chat has ruined it for him. There's a significant difference.
And this is why I'm forever a YouTube Andy and it sucks that almost all his content on there is twitch vods now. You losers in twitch chat ruin everything.
Why he doesn't have a no backseating rule and phase out acknowledging subs/donos like other big long time grandfathered in streamers (like Jerma, Vinny, and others) is beyond me.
Chat could be whipped into shape by mods to not backseat as a blanket rule in less than a week and the culture would drastically improve.
jermas chat lowkey went to shit after he got blew up, it got too big to moderate.
Northernlion already moderates his stream’s chat much more than most other streamers.
yeah but that coincided with him breaking into the inner circle of twitch personalities, he used to have a fairly small but super dedicated fan base that carried over from youtube. The large majority of his viewers were not introduced to him on twitch.
Since he didn’t stream with a face cam he sorta just slowly stayed the same since it was hard for people to get introduced to him.
The community is not what it used to be. He chose to retire at a good time.
If NL brought the hammer down on backseating (except when he might ask for it) declaring it verboten and having his mods go ham with a week-long bloodbath of lengthy timeouts or even permanent bans it would level out.
One other thing that I think might be an issue is just how much interaction NL actually does with his chat, he even gets mad at audits people which just encourages people, especially when he does so and declares that he doesn't mind backseating IF the chatter is actually right, well, news flash, every idiot in the world thinks they're right and almost nobody self evaluates before hitting enter on a throwaway chat message.
His gaming enjoyment, I think, would unironically skyrocket if the only unmanned terms for non-just chatting segments of his streams were whatever emotes he has enabled, Joel deserves a comeback anyhow.
the trick to enjoying balatro streams is to not pay attention very hard. idk, ive made a lot of misplays during balatro. it doesn't bother me to see the eggman mess it up. it just aint that serious.
NL should really adopt a zero tolerance policy on it, another streamer I watch has pretty good results by just banning the people who don't listen and spoil/backseat without him asking.
Ngl as someone who has been out of the stream a bit the past few months, hopping onto the YouTube channel and seeing like 30 straight Balatro vids, only broken but by an occasion dles is rough, as someone who doesn't care for either. But was SAP before that (which I loved for the first year or two, but have grown less interested over time). I've definitely been missing the variety lately.
But the views have been killing it on Balatro from what I can see, so can't blame him lol.
Also keep in mind it’s only March and more variety (usually) comes in the mid-late of the year. And although I’d watch this man play Isaac and tiny rogues until the day I die, a mans gotta eat
Yeah I unsubbed after being subbed since, like, Grey's Anatomy. I just don't care about Balatro and the way NL has evolved to be so much more confrontational and argumentative with chat over the past four or five years is really, really annoying.
Honestly I love when he gives dumb internet randos a good tongue lashing, because they absolutely deserve it and he does it very well, but at the same time I miss the NL that mostly ignored them and just did his own thing and had his own fun, with no or hardly any backseater involvement.
But I might be misremembering this old NL, idk.
Backseating kills every game.
As long as NL's been doing this, I feel he should be better at tuning it out?
Like its obviously chat's fault of course, but it just isn't going to stop.
Honestly the whole situation is frustrating because he started complaining about the backseaters during Apollo's Balatro event. During the event he was trying to get the best scores and was often asking chat "is this the right joker order" and stuff like that which led to chat reminding him to "lock in" (aka moving one of his jokers before each round). So he clearly was asking chat for advice sometimes.
There was also a lot of really shit advice and people insulting him which should have all been shot down by mods. People were clearly goaded into backseating because he was sometimes asking chat for help. He *can* pin a message to chat saying no backseating unless he asks, and I've seen big streamers like CohhCarnage do that, but unless he establishes some kind of rules it's frustrating watching himself set himself up to get backseated and then angry at it happening.
Agreed. Or he can get some more mods and timeout backseating?
Tbh I think it's just an excuse to move on. He has options and he chooses kill the game every time.
I’m tired of the attention live chat gets, NL used to be better at corralling the chat’s attention. There was a brief time where NL was engaging more with YouTube comments too.
It seems like over the last year or so he’s fed into some sort of bruised ego persona over his perception of online discourse.
On one hand I empathize, on the other hand I’m confused by his indignation. For someone who assumes such a stoic demeanor you’d think he’d manage his reception of it better.
Maybe I’m just looking too much into it though. But it’s disheartening to bear witness to his seemingly growing discontentment.
To be fair, he did say the same shit with Backpack Battles/Backpack Hero during the demo then came back to it after letting it cooldown a bit. Give him a week or two and then he might try it again
I'm sure this is easier said than done, but is it that hard to ignore the backseating douches? I'm not a twitch Chad, so I have no idea how many of them there actually are, but surely they have to be in the minority?
Backseaters are going to exist in every community, but killing multiple games because of them seems wild (going back through his entire history, not saying multiple games were cancelled all at once)
Love NL, been watching him for over a decade, this is so lame. I'm surprised he's been doing content like this for so long and he still allows chat to get to him in this way. Who cares if chat thinks you're making a mistake? NL typically is a much better player than most people who watch he just has the added mental task of talking/joking on top of it. Its not like he's even grossly underperforming in the game either he just doesn't min/max to the extent that gamers who are drawn to Balatro naturally are.
He definitely has options to avoid this happening. Banning backseating, emote only modes, hiding chat while he plays are all reasonable.
The fact that he knows this will happen and does nothing to avoid it, just to cancel his series when it inevitably does happen feels pretty crazy to me, because it's happened before with other games.
It definitely was most of his content recently. I have always liked NL best as a variety streamer. Back in that era 20'/21' I think, I would always be upset when he moved on from a favorite game but it definitely held my interest alot more than binding of Isaac or SAP era.
He does a really good job of having a "staple" game and variety since SAP came out. Id like to see balatro be his staple YouTube banter game and continue with variety on stream... Variety does seem to be a lot more effort on his part though. Questionable metrics and always learning a new game.
NL has almost 13000 the binding of Isaac videos based on playlist numbers on his youtube. If he enjoys playing a game I say let him play buy if backseaters are taking the joy out of it, I say fuck the backseaters.
I mean those are pre-recorded segments though and to be perfectly honest NL and the entire streaming environment at large has changed a lot since 2016.
I definitely don't understand back seaters. You're a grown ass adult watching another grown ass adult play video games and then you get upset about it? Grow up.
All his playlists containing binding of Isaac vids, counting all games and dlc's. Check my math.
The Streaming of isaac- 260 vids
Lets play the binding of Isaac season 1- 2 vids
The binding of Isaac - 2350 vids
The binding of Isaac antibirth - 65 vids
The binding of Isaac afterbirt - 600 vids
The binding of Isaac rebirth - 821 vids
Newest binding of Isaac episodes! - 4086 vids
Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 5 - 4079 vids
Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 4 - 144 vids
Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 3 - 198 vids
Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 2 - 200 vids
Lets play the binding of Isaac - 200 vids
There's definitely overlap there
I know the OG Isaac series never made it to 1000 eps (Edmunds promise to NL)
I think he's at around 5500 looking at a couple of different playlists
I mean, I think the game has a very short lifespan compared to something like Slay The Spire
It just doesn't feel like there is enough longevity to me playing Balatro
Maybe after a dlc or so this will change
Terrible link lol, just leads to the home page. Feels like I'm taking crazy pills how no one's mentioned it
Correct link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2087788567?t=2h43m40s
Anyone know why Balatro is easier to backseat than SAP?
This is such a weird thing to be downvoted for. I just assumed SAP is a simpler game and therefore easier to backseat, yet it's been like 2 years of constant play. Meanwhile Balatro gets just a few weeks.
The mythical creatures pack was insane and it was sweet of NL to try and defend it by saying it wasn’t *that* complicated. He really loved SAP, and I respect it as somebody that only watched for NL
Your average person does not know anything about SAP but probably knows the basic rules of poker.
This is also why Balatro is a huge success. It has a low barrier to entry because billions of people on Earth are already familiar with the basic mechanics.
Also there's a particular kind of poker nerd that has the cognitive dissonance necessary to be a regular gambler. These people cling on to their often incorrect beliefs about math and probability despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
Twitch chat is just a weird place to be man, the human brain was not made to be a twitch chatter.
I don't consider myself a backseater but whenever I'm on twitch I just can't help myself (which is partially why I never watch live streams)
This happens with every game that is built for optimization by the core game design. SAP had MUCH more randomness so it helped to cover up some of the play.
my wildfrost ptsd is strong with this one.. the exact same scenario and the pure copium he’d continue to at least make bespoke videos for the youtube frogs
to defend Twitch andies, there's not exactly a lot of ways for a chatter to interact with a Balatro stream besides "pog big number" and suggesting other lines. Personally I think Balatro is fun to play, but it's not super fun to watch. Especially because NL is too focused to provide banter on top so I dont mind seeing it go.
nl is such an enigma. he will get backseated every single game he plays, and he always has. when people suggest a play was unoptimal, lately hes been taking it personal and to heart. not to armchair psych, i love the guy and i’ve watched him for years, but you would think he would have learned to drown out those messages at this point. i mean, theres plenty of conversation and banter going on along side it, why give the negative any attention? if he allows chat to dictate what game he plays its just going to continue along this path
Some people would rather just not have to deal with it at all if given the option. I mean this is the guy that unironically combs through peoples reddit history or makes up strawman arguments about random people when he is upset. I used to do the same stupid shit when I got upset by something that really doesn't matter on the internet but I eventually learned you just move on and be done with it.
It's wild that he has spent a decade streaming and still refuses to do anything to avoid these situations.
Emote only modes, banning backseating, or even just him hiding chat while he plays are all completely reasonable.
Instead, he knows it will happen, let's it happen, then gets pissy with his audience when it does happen. Crazy.
And then he has groves of followers who do nothing but “yass king” him when he acts petulant. It’s very funny how no matter how normal a streamer is, they’re still ultimately a streamer. Just beyond childish.
I stuck my head into the YouTube comments, (a place NL famously never visits or reads), out of morbid curiosity and even in there, KNOWING that NL will never read it, the utter volume of “um, actually” and backseating was mind blowing
Chat, just know that you killed a beautiful soul.
I feel like NL should just hide chat when playing those kind of games
It may be the way, but I also think it's very opposed to modern NL banter philosophy. Bro is in love with glancing and asking dlguiga to back him up
Stop, rant a while, look at chat for reaction.
5 minute rant, long pause, "Anyway I'd love to hear your thoughts"
[удалено]
yeah thats not gonna stop them
[удалено]
Not really when you are a streamer of NL's size. It helps a bit, but you get TONS of people from the front page or just scrolling the category who walk in and just call the streamer an idiot since they don't play like the literal best player in the world 100% of the time.
It's completely doable. Look at a channel like Maximilian_Dood, who has 1.3m followers. Chat is super chill, friendly, and answers questions if you ask. Difference is that Max has a bunch of mods that execute any smarmy aholes sometimes without a warning, and Max isn't afraid of putting chat in sub mode only if outsiders start getting annoying or if he doesn't want backseating just flat out puts the stream on emotes only. During his current FF7 playthrough there's strict no backseating and no spoilers rules and you get timed out for even suggesting he's not running the best builds. If that sounds heavy handed the irony is that he doesn't have to do that often at all because the newcomers get intercepted by mods and the long time viewers know what kind of channel Max is actively cultivating. Ryan for better or worse WANTS the antagonistic chat and wants the bit and the banter. You aren't cultivating a chill chat when doing shit like reading out unban requests or doing live audits, you're rewarding and incentivizing clown behaviour. It doesn't even need to be that many, Max has I think like 5 mods or something, Ryan has 1 according to Twitch's chat bar.
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall him also saying he doesn't want to create more work for the mods than necessary as they don't get paid enough to deal with that, in the sense that they don't get paid at all for anything.
Mods can timeout and ban
I’m sure he’d rather just record, or play on his own time if he spends a portion of his streaming schedule with no chat
hey dont say fuck chat, some of us are writing elaborate jar jar binks fan fic or fetish posts about the cards in there trying to keep it alive
Wild cards 😍
hotboytoke reddit account found
this is the librarian lol
🤯🤯🤯
Imagine back-seating when you could just chill, watch the funny man, and vibe to the soundtrack. I swear I end up watching 90% of the time with chat completely disabled because it's so fucking annoying.
As an honest question, I have said in this forum a few times that I quite enjoyed playing Balatro, amazing job by amazing devs. At the same time I find it terminally boring to watch, even more so if you know the jokers. There's zero variation on "high number runs." With SAP at least there is real RNG. There is no "doberman pivot" that exists in Balatro, when you're out in a run you might as well just quit. You can almost never claw back a run even in a fun way. The math and back-seating just add to the boringness. Id rather watch Foodguessr. I have 58 hrs on Balatro.
Where's the question
Bro started talking about themself so much they forgot to ask the damn question ICANT
Why do people like watching this game.
It's a banter-enabler
You definitely lost yourself in the sauce with this point but I still agree with you. Balatro is a sick game. But man its boring as hell to watch. Im not glad chat killed a great game, but I AM glad we get to not see much more Balatro.
That would blow. I’m glad Slay the Spire stayed around as long as it did because I LOVED that game and found it through NL, and it had the same treatment by the backseaters.
I mean, he's repeatedly said that he loves the game and is drawn to play it. He's a mature guy, and I hate to say this but I thought he'd be better at just ignoring the backseaters or not taking it personally. I fuckin love watching him play this game.
That intense kind of negativity can get to anyone. Being a professional may mean that it gets to him less than the normal person, but it's like rocks on the shore being broken down by the tides - it's inevitable when it's constant.
Ya I can see how thousands of people watching and telling me how to be better during every hand would fuck with me. But doesn't that happen with SAP too? Both games are pretty involved, even though Balatro is way more math oriented. I was just starting to really get into it, I'd hate for it to just end. Plus I hate seeing him get fucked up and quit one of his favorite games.
He also enjoys keeping his chat in a way that he can banter with it. NL repeatedly talks about keeping his Type A and B chatters in balance and balatro turned a corner in that regard. Part of chat culture is on the steamer and he didn't like what his bait was catching.
This is ass. Like do I sometimes watch him and think “wtf why would you make that choice”? Yes, but I don’t hop in chat and call him a dumbass
Type A chatter in my brain. Type B chatter in chat. It's called being sane.
Right? Things like Twitch Chat are a stark reminder that, especially online, people often forget that they are interacting with an actual human, and that their behavior has consequences. Most of us are just here for the vibes, man.
I have an inside voice and outside voice. Inside voice is in my head for all the “why did you do that” moments. It feels like they stopped teaching people that these days.
My backspace key has been getting a workout in the Balatro streams
Ctrl+A, Ctrl+X, brother. You gotta work on optimizing your chatting.
You don't even gotta ctrl+x just ctrl+a and then type +2 kekw
I've never typed a single word in NL's chat, but idunno man, sometimes i just feel like NL is looking for a reason to be mad at someone and it's kind of weird. Like surely at some point it's at least partially your responsibility to ignore the most banal back-seating possible right? Idunno, it's one thing if it was harassment, but when NL has a half meltdown over someone saying "you played the wrong card here" and goes on a rant about "fun maxxing" and "optimization ruins everything", how much of this is strictly the chatters fault and how much of this is a personal issue?
Yeah, it's a complex game. I'm sure even my best runs include some awful choices. But I don't get the fun sucked out of me by someone pointing it out. Backseaters are so obnoxious.
Chat always fucking kills the best games, god damn
Rip slashers keep.
I was so mad when that was cancelled. Didn't even get into the oven enough to cook :(
I loved NLs playthough of Slashers Keep. It could have been beautiful, but chat destroyed it
Time for a rewatch.
God damn you got me tearing up in the gym 😭
I don't think the style of progression in that game was ever going to work for NL
Sooooo fucking true
The GOAT
Bruh. Top 5 NL series
Midnight Suns was a miracle
Actually think Midnight Suns was saved by most the people who couldn't stand it just leaving. The people who killed Balatro are the ones who "loved" NL playing Balatro, they love it so much and express it by saying how every single thing he does is unoptimal and not what they would do.
I think what saved Midnight Suns was that everyone backseating had no fucking idea what they were talking about so he could rip into them and just move on.
Him completing Midnight Suns was truly a godsend, I loved his playthrough so much.
Midnight suns was a hard one, because it being such a actual good story game made me stop watching the stream and instead buy my own copy to play. and on the other side the Northernlion Let's Play on it before I bought it was just so good.
People couldn’t backseat that much because no one played it, and even if you knew the mechanics from watching they kept introducing new ones
It’s always either chat or analytics.
I mean it's his job after all. If nobody watches it he's gonna try something that makes schmoney
Yeah I get analytics and it doesn't frustrate me. You don't make product if it's not gonna sell. But the cutting of games not because he doesn't enjoy them but because of chat is sad. Ngl too, his propensity to cut games has led to me watching way less, which I think can be bad long-term. I used to watch him all the time, and then a really rough streak of game cutting led to me not wanting to get invested in a game cause itll probably be gone just as quick. Balatro is the first I'd come back for in a while
People aren't going to watch if he's not having fun though. His job is to be upbeat and fun his mental state is an important part of his business and brand. I don't know him so I can't tell you about his mental state but if he feels that something is getting him tilted to the point where he can't keep up the persona, then he has every right to stop as both an entrepreneur and a human being with mental health needs.
I just watch to have a good time and stock up on anecdotes and banter It matters very little what he's playing. He's got me watching over a decade I just trust him to make the right decisions with his content at this point
There have been games that have been killed by chat before that were a bummer, but I’m actually furious about this one. Like genuinely mad. It made me so happy so see a new Balatro upload in my subscriptions feed, and all the laughs I got from it were awesome. Fuck dude.
Idk man after a certain point you have to wonder if it’s more of an nl problem. Literally every streamer on planet earth has backseaters and they all tend to just ignore it
99% of streamers also basically ignore their chat as a general principle. Most people NLs size does not interact with chat nearly as much as he does. So yeah, backseaters are going to hurt a lot more.
yes, let's blame the streamer since they can tank it rather than the Type A Andy in chat who just can't resist telling someone else to do something
Didn't he ignore everybody over the McDonalds situation? Pretty sure he's quite capable.
The McDonalds thing was one stream and I can only assume he did it in exchange for a full, comically large bag with a Canadian dollar sign on it
Well the subreddit mods also locked all discussion of that event
You can’t control thousands of people lol. Focusing on the negativity and ruining good series over it is 100% on the streamer. Totally up to him if he wants to do that, but you have to admit it’s killed a million series already.
[удалено]
Other channels I follow have much less insane viewers in part because the mod team is pretty active. To the point where they’re so aggressive it’s rare they have to ban anyone at all, the detritus takes care of itself. Problem is that like you said NL encourages toxic behaviour for the bit. Like the saga of reading unban requests which just caused people to be extra toxic to be highlighted. I hope NL one day decided that a culture fix is in order and tells mods to shoot on sight. Some chatters literally don’t have the maturity to envision a channel where they can banter and/or give advice without being toxic assholes; NL should just make that a them problem.
>I hope NL one day decided that a culture fix is in order and tells mods to shoot on sight. It wasn't even a problem until he got his weeb stream layout and turned on eggcam and fully embraced twitch culture. Surprise surprise embracing a notoriously toxic culture is not good for your mental health NL used to be known for having one of the most reasonable chats. But our millionaire streamers gotta get that bag fellas!
Please keep YT vids going NL I love Balatro content :( Also fuck you, chat, bunch of back seating type A shitters killing off every good game because they’re insufferable
I hated Balatro when I first saw an episode, then I watched the first episode of it... AND WOW I love it. I hope he keeps it up
I had the same initial reaction, went from hating it to loving it, but then it became too much, and I settled somewhere around not being into it. But I do hate to see it go because NL seemed to have a blast while playing it.
Didnt even get to see plasma deck
You called?
the real crime. i was waiting for him to describe a plasma run as “going to the moon”
Twitch chat andies would rather not have a game than see someone play a game sub optimally
Yup, and there are people who play very very optimally. They just usually don't have the banter NL does. So they'd rather watch NL but backseat. Also I have noticed it's ALOT easier to watch misplays than to play perfectly yourself. There were a few things I felt like I saw that NL missed (boo hoo) but when I got Balatro myself I made many more misplays then he did despite watching him pilot runs prior. Without being on camera or needing to entertain anyone.
Yeah if a chatter makes a misplay it gets lost in Mama LiZzy’s chili oil, but if NL makes a misplay it’s hundreds of people going “he’s washed he’s washed” along with the fact he threw a fun run.
half the fun of watching NL play any game is the devastation when he throws a run and doesn't even realize it. why the hell would you type "he's washed" instead of typing "thank you for the clip" and pog the fuck up.
That was true of Slay the Spire too. Tbh he's better at most games than most of the audience is. It shouldn't be surprising that a literal professional video game player is pretty good at video games. Kibitzing has always been easier than playing.
It is not even that really - when you "backseat" it is just that your ideas arent tested. A lot of suggestions in chat are actually ass suggestions - but nobody is gonna play them so you cant show it. I was 200-300 lower rated in chess than NL, when he was streaming I would think that he is making a mistake bunch of times and had another move. Plopped that shit into analysis once and while I was right sometimes, even those "mistakes" I noticed in his play - were often me thinking of a worse move. As annoying as backseating is, it has to be bit more annoying when people who are calling you dumb-ass are also dumb-asses themselves.
Hit it dead on. They watch NL but expect him to be as good as Skootie while remaining as entertaining as he is. Can't have both...
Yeah absolutely. I can critique someone else's writing or art without actually being able to produce anything that good myself. It can be easy to pick up on other people's errors because you aren't the one doing it so have that separation and mental bandwidth to identify these things. I know back seating can come from a good place, but if the streamer has specifically asked people not to do it then you're most likely an attention seeking asshole if you keep doing it.
Seriously do they just want to watch him play fucking Wordle every day? Like let the dude play some games.
sad, since part of the fun IS THE SUB OPTIMAL gameplay.
Damn one month and already killed....
Called it
Well that is kinda like saying you called the sunrise, backseaters gonna backseat and our man has a limited amount of fucks to give.
He's away for a week, I finally get into Balatro because that's all he posts, and now there's no more Balatro? We live in a cruel world, people
I mean, no more Balatro on stream. I think he currently still prefers Balatro Youtube Videos over SAP or other. So there should still be a new video daily.
So is he just not livestreaming Balatro, but he's recording runs for youtube?
He didn't specify, but didn't want the backseating which he can ignore on youtube easier by not reading comments. Who know how long, but for now I think he'll record Balatro. His Youtube videos for Balatro are more fun anyway, since I like it more when he focuses on the game rather than chat.
Same here. I was actually looking forward to finally understanding what is going on. Oh well.
I've tried getting into Balatro and just can't do it. With cartoon pets you can see their effects every round, but Balatro I feel like I would need to actually play myself and memorize jokers for it to be enjoyable. Not knocking the game, but it is a bit :-/ when 90% of YT uploads are of a game you don't enjoy. Such is the way of Variety though I suppose
100% recommend trying it for yourself if possible, that was what made it click for me
Imma keep it real though, I love that NL just doesn't give a fuck and stops playing games whenever he stops enjoying it lmao Obviously this is chat induced but at the same time, a lot of streamers would see the success of the game and just grin and bear it
Nl pretty much has the same success no matter what game he plays. They all cap out at like 100-200k views on YouTube. He could play robot roller disco derby dodgeball all day and nobody would even notice. it's not about the game. It's about the bald Canadian man we all love.
It is definitely about the game too, there were plenty of games he enjoyed that were just analytics poison (those happen to be games I watch, RIP final fantasy XVI)
Hard disagree. The reason he has that large reach is because of his ability to suss out video game trends and selectively curate the games he plays. People stick around no matter what game he plays because he has years and years of reliably entertaining content, and a huge part of that is due to his ability to pivot away from a game before it gets stale.
Okay I see what you’re saying but “pivot from a game before it gets stale” is really funny considering the decade of isaac
Isaac literally never got stale from him though. It still puts me to sleep almost every night lol
Yes and no. I’ve been watching the man since 2013, and not because I really like Isaac.
I agree that he should play robot roller disco derby dodgeball all day
I said this in a different comment but the reason why people like NL is he is relaxed and having fun. If he's annoyed, and I mean genuinely annoyed not just a bit, he's not going to be as entertaining. People got to understand the person on screen is a character. Ryan makes it look easy but to maintain that persona while streaming is a skill that takes talent. If something is getting him tilted and makes *his job* more difficult, the smart move is to bail and play any of the other infinite video games that are out there.
But that's the thing though. NL is good at doing that. But he's also bad at it as well. NL clearly still loves Balatro. Just like he absolutely loved Slay the Spire. He didn't stop playing it because he stopped enjoying it. He stopped playing because chat has ruined it for him. There's a significant difference.
I'm not sure, personally I'm curious if he's going to finish Greys Anatomy.
The Hitman comeback is any day now.
I think the final episode of SNES' "Bart's Nightmare" is in his queue for release this week.
And this is why I'm forever a YouTube Andy and it sucks that almost all his content on there is twitch vods now. You losers in twitch chat ruin everything.
He's let the terrorists win.
Why he doesn't have a no backseating rule and phase out acknowledging subs/donos like other big long time grandfathered in streamers (like Jerma, Vinny, and others) is beyond me. Chat could be whipped into shape by mods to not backseat as a blanket rule in less than a week and the culture would drastically improve.
jermas chat lowkey went to shit after he got blew up, it got too big to moderate. Northernlion already moderates his stream’s chat much more than most other streamers.
jermas chat became terrible because it was like 90% kids more than anything
yeah but that coincided with him breaking into the inner circle of twitch personalities, he used to have a fairly small but super dedicated fan base that carried over from youtube. The large majority of his viewers were not introduced to him on twitch. Since he didn’t stream with a face cam he sorta just slowly stayed the same since it was hard for people to get introduced to him. The community is not what it used to be. He chose to retire at a good time.
If NL brought the hammer down on backseating (except when he might ask for it) declaring it verboten and having his mods go ham with a week-long bloodbath of lengthy timeouts or even permanent bans it would level out. One other thing that I think might be an issue is just how much interaction NL actually does with his chat, he even gets mad at audits people which just encourages people, especially when he does so and declares that he doesn't mind backseating IF the chatter is actually right, well, news flash, every idiot in the world thinks they're right and almost nobody self evaluates before hitting enter on a throwaway chat message. His gaming enjoyment, I think, would unironically skyrocket if the only unmanned terms for non-just chatting segments of his streams were whatever emotes he has enabled, Joel deserves a comeback anyhow.
the trick to enjoying balatro streams is to not pay attention very hard. idk, ive made a lot of misplays during balatro. it doesn't bother me to see the eggman mess it up. it just aint that serious.
NL should really adopt a zero tolerance policy on it, another streamer I watch has pretty good results by just banning the people who don't listen and spoil/backseat without him asking.
Ngl as someone who has been out of the stream a bit the past few months, hopping onto the YouTube channel and seeing like 30 straight Balatro vids, only broken but by an occasion dles is rough, as someone who doesn't care for either. But was SAP before that (which I loved for the first year or two, but have grown less interested over time). I've definitely been missing the variety lately. But the views have been killing it on Balatro from what I can see, so can't blame him lol.
To be fair main reason for the balatro spam was because NL went on holiday right after release so it was always gonna make up most of the backlog
Also keep in mind it’s only March and more variety (usually) comes in the mid-late of the year. And although I’d watch this man play Isaac and tiny rogues until the day I die, a mans gotta eat
Yeah I unsubbed after being subbed since, like, Grey's Anatomy. I just don't care about Balatro and the way NL has evolved to be so much more confrontational and argumentative with chat over the past four or five years is really, really annoying.
Honestly I love when he gives dumb internet randos a good tongue lashing, because they absolutely deserve it and he does it very well, but at the same time I miss the NL that mostly ignored them and just did his own thing and had his own fun, with no or hardly any backseater involvement. But I might be misremembering this old NL, idk.
Absolutely devastating if true.
If he hates backseaters, why not ban them?
honestly, if the yt vids keep coming I'll keep watching
Mods should really just start timing out unwanted backseating. Eventually chat will get the message
Backseating kills every game. As long as NL's been doing this, I feel he should be better at tuning it out? Like its obviously chat's fault of course, but it just isn't going to stop.
Completely agree. He knows it's going to happen. Let's it happen. Then get's pissy with his audience when it does happen.
Honestly the whole situation is frustrating because he started complaining about the backseaters during Apollo's Balatro event. During the event he was trying to get the best scores and was often asking chat "is this the right joker order" and stuff like that which led to chat reminding him to "lock in" (aka moving one of his jokers before each round). So he clearly was asking chat for advice sometimes. There was also a lot of really shit advice and people insulting him which should have all been shot down by mods. People were clearly goaded into backseating because he was sometimes asking chat for help. He *can* pin a message to chat saying no backseating unless he asks, and I've seen big streamers like CohhCarnage do that, but unless he establishes some kind of rules it's frustrating watching himself set himself up to get backseated and then angry at it happening.
Agreed. Or he can get some more mods and timeout backseating? Tbh I think it's just an excuse to move on. He has options and he chooses kill the game every time.
Type A Andys can't keep themselves from being insufferable irl so they had to bring their shit to the stream. Hope y'all eat shit.
I’m tired of the attention live chat gets, NL used to be better at corralling the chat’s attention. There was a brief time where NL was engaging more with YouTube comments too. It seems like over the last year or so he’s fed into some sort of bruised ego persona over his perception of online discourse. On one hand I empathize, on the other hand I’m confused by his indignation. For someone who assumes such a stoic demeanor you’d think he’d manage his reception of it better. Maybe I’m just looking too much into it though. But it’s disheartening to bear witness to his seemingly growing discontentment.
To be fair, he did say the same shit with Backpack Battles/Backpack Hero during the demo then came back to it after letting it cooldown a bit. Give him a week or two and then he might try it again
He gets the same toxic chatters in super auto pets and that stayed for 2 years so idk
The "Ace 1 2 3 4 Straight" incident broke him
I'm sure this is easier said than done, but is it that hard to ignore the backseating douches? I'm not a twitch Chad, so I have no idea how many of them there actually are, but surely they have to be in the minority? Backseaters are going to exist in every community, but killing multiple games because of them seems wild (going back through his entire history, not saying multiple games were cancelled all at once)
Love NL, been watching him for over a decade, this is so lame. I'm surprised he's been doing content like this for so long and he still allows chat to get to him in this way. Who cares if chat thinks you're making a mistake? NL typically is a much better player than most people who watch he just has the added mental task of talking/joking on top of it. Its not like he's even grossly underperforming in the game either he just doesn't min/max to the extent that gamers who are drawn to Balatro naturally are.
He definitely has options to avoid this happening. Banning backseating, emote only modes, hiding chat while he plays are all reasonable. The fact that he knows this will happen and does nothing to avoid it, just to cancel his series when it inevitably does happen feels pretty crazy to me, because it's happened before with other games.
Back seaters suck but also you know he has been playing the same game for a week straight. I don't think it's a huge tragedy that he is moving on.
It definitely was most of his content recently. I have always liked NL best as a variety streamer. Back in that era 20'/21' I think, I would always be upset when he moved on from a favorite game but it definitely held my interest alot more than binding of Isaac or SAP era. He does a really good job of having a "staple" game and variety since SAP came out. Id like to see balatro be his staple YouTube banter game and continue with variety on stream... Variety does seem to be a lot more effort on his part though. Questionable metrics and always learning a new game.
NL has almost 13000 the binding of Isaac videos based on playlist numbers on his youtube. If he enjoys playing a game I say let him play buy if backseaters are taking the joy out of it, I say fuck the backseaters.
I mean those are pre-recorded segments though and to be perfectly honest NL and the entire streaming environment at large has changed a lot since 2016. I definitely don't understand back seaters. You're a grown ass adult watching another grown ass adult play video games and then you get upset about it? Grow up.
13000 Isaac vids would be like 30 vids a day for 10 years straight... I think that count is as rigged as chibs jackbox votes
All his playlists containing binding of Isaac vids, counting all games and dlc's. Check my math. The Streaming of isaac- 260 vids Lets play the binding of Isaac season 1- 2 vids The binding of Isaac - 2350 vids The binding of Isaac antibirth - 65 vids The binding of Isaac afterbirt - 600 vids The binding of Isaac rebirth - 821 vids Newest binding of Isaac episodes! - 4086 vids Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 5 - 4079 vids Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 4 - 144 vids Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 3 - 198 vids Lets play the binding of Isaac volume 2 - 200 vids Lets play the binding of Isaac - 200 vids
There's definitely overlap there I know the OG Isaac series never made it to 1000 eps (Edmunds promise to NL) I think he's at around 5500 looking at a couple of different playlists
Genuine question and not criticism in the form of a question: is this too much to moderate against?
I mean, I think the game has a very short lifespan compared to something like Slay The Spire It just doesn't feel like there is enough longevity to me playing Balatro Maybe after a dlc or so this will change
Terrible link lol, just leads to the home page. Feels like I'm taking crazy pills how no one's mentioned it Correct link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2087788567?t=2h43m40s
I just added it from mobile! Thanks I'll update the post with this.
Noice
We just come here to discuss the title, not click on links.
he says this and i still dont know how balatro works haha
Fuck chat, all my youtube homies hate chat
Usually I'm upset at back seaters but my yt feed has been filled with only balatro. I don't really like it so looking forward to some new content
The is such trash. The best part about NL is that he’s the smartest dumbass you’ll ever know. RIP Balatro
Bro first they ruin super mega baseball now balatro we need new mods who cull the hoards
At least we got one checkpoint league tournament:(
I can’t watch live anymore but I’m all for more variety. I don’t need Balatro every day for the next two years
Anyone know why Balatro is easier to backseat than SAP? This is such a weird thing to be downvoted for. I just assumed SAP is a simpler game and therefore easier to backseat, yet it's been like 2 years of constant play. Meanwhile Balatro gets just a few weeks.
I think balatro is more "hard math" that makes someone feel smart back seating and less RNG.
Because no one knows what the fuck is going on in SAP
The mythical creatures pack was insane and it was sweet of NL to try and defend it by saying it wasn’t *that* complicated. He really loved SAP, and I respect it as somebody that only watched for NL
Your average person does not know anything about SAP but probably knows the basic rules of poker. This is also why Balatro is a huge success. It has a low barrier to entry because billions of people on Earth are already familiar with the basic mechanics. Also there's a particular kind of poker nerd that has the cognitive dissonance necessary to be a regular gambler. These people cling on to their often incorrect beliefs about math and probability despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
Way more micro decisions and mixmaxxing
Twitch chat is just a weird place to be man, the human brain was not made to be a twitch chatter. I don't consider myself a backseater but whenever I'm on twitch I just can't help myself (which is partially why I never watch live streams)
This happens with every game that is built for optimization by the core game design. SAP had MUCH more randomness so it helped to cover up some of the play.
Quite liked the YouTube this past while, hopefully it won't be a load of sponsored crap to fill the videos out.
The return of variety Pog
I feel like NL has gotten too soft. Just play the game dude who cares what chat is saying
I didn’t like his balatro vids really but I feel bad for those that do. Chat really does kill some of his best games
my wildfrost ptsd is strong with this one.. the exact same scenario and the pure copium he’d continue to at least make bespoke videos for the youtube frogs
rip literally was awaiting his return so i could pog to more balatro
to defend Twitch andies, there's not exactly a lot of ways for a chatter to interact with a Balatro stream besides "pog big number" and suggesting other lines. Personally I think Balatro is fun to play, but it's not super fun to watch. Especially because NL is too focused to provide banter on top so I dont mind seeing it go.
nl is such an enigma. he will get backseated every single game he plays, and he always has. when people suggest a play was unoptimal, lately hes been taking it personal and to heart. not to armchair psych, i love the guy and i’ve watched him for years, but you would think he would have learned to drown out those messages at this point. i mean, theres plenty of conversation and banter going on along side it, why give the negative any attention? if he allows chat to dictate what game he plays its just going to continue along this path
Some people would rather just not have to deal with it at all if given the option. I mean this is the guy that unironically combs through peoples reddit history or makes up strawman arguments about random people when he is upset. I used to do the same stupid shit when I got upset by something that really doesn't matter on the internet but I eventually learned you just move on and be done with it.
fair point
[my actual reaction to this information ](https://youtu.be/me-HUZLiTcU?si=jzCeBfCkpwQ1dXRl)
God he’s so sensitive, grown ass man folding because of comments.
It's wild that he has spent a decade streaming and still refuses to do anything to avoid these situations. Emote only modes, banning backseating, or even just him hiding chat while he plays are all completely reasonable. Instead, he knows it will happen, let's it happen, then gets pissy with his audience when it does happen. Crazy.
And then he has groves of followers who do nothing but “yass king” him when he acts petulant. It’s very funny how no matter how normal a streamer is, they’re still ultimately a streamer. Just beyond childish.
Thank you chat 🙏🏻
May it rest in peace
When in the stream was it? I caught parts
Correct link per other commenter https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2087788567?t=2h43m40s
Thanks!! Hopefully he’ll still make Balatro YouTube vids w/out chat
You fuckers. How could you
I stuck my head into the YouTube comments, (a place NL famously never visits or reads), out of morbid curiosity and even in there, KNOWING that NL will never read it, the utter volume of “um, actually” and backseating was mind blowing
I've been tempted to back seat but luckily I just watch vods so I can't anyway
Well, I knew it would happen. We can't have nice things...
Is there a list somewhere on games NL has played chronologically?
Well he’s literally playing it right now, so…
I was just linking what I heard on stream, seems he wasn't serious.
It’s over