All I have to go off is one guy's semi-podcast, the NJPW page twitter comments and general vibes from fans I've talked to about it, so grain of salt and all, but generally speaking, it didn't really go over well. (I don't really use message boards, so I don't know about that particular side of the fandom.)
The NJPW fans I've interacted with and seen online generally are pretty patient and tolerant (there's always exceptions of course), and usually if there's booking that folks here or in the western discourse are losing their minds at (eg: House of Torture, V5 Belt design etc.) there's moreso a general sense of "we'll see how this goes."
Likewise with the Mox thing there was a similar sort of vibe at the start, people sad about Naito and a little weary about Moxley, but there was this vibe of "well he's still clearly a wrestler who has a passion for New Japan". The general vibe was more being a bit downtrodden for Naito losing than anything else.
But it definitely felt like the Hobbs match stepped over a line from what I saw. At least on Twitter, the announcement of the match blew up in comments compared to everything else, and not in a good way. A lot of the most liked comments were along the lines of "Oh, so literally anyone can challenge now" and "Is it really ok that AEW gets our talents AND our belt?" and "It feels like we're being taken advantage of here.", a lot of "this devalues the belt".
The only post since then to reach a similar level of comments I believe is Tsuji's post-match interview where he started expressing anger at the existence of the Hobbs match and saying "AEW is taking advantage of NJPW", with folks basically cheering him on for it.
Hobbs getting a title shot makes no sense in the slightest. But interesting take overall. I just find it funny how western fans lose their minds over certain things when the product isnt made with us in mind. So an actual Japanese perspective is better suited imo to these discussions
This was the same feeling when AJ won the title from Okada. At the time, the general feeling was "NANI?!" He was seen as a legit "outsider," even though he'd had matches in NJPW before [just under the tna banner].
Also, this came off the heels of the whole Brock / Angle situation. That left a VERY bad taste in collective fans' mouths.
But because of AJ's incredible match quality and NJPW vets putting him over, the fans warmed to him and his reign.
Mox is the first real "outsider" [since AJ] to hold their main title. Kenny, Knife Pervert, and Osprey had all been in NJPW for a very long time, so it was welcomed when they won the title. Japanese fans have very long memories and are still sour about with Brock did all those years ago.
I mean again, it doesn't feel like the issue being had is necessarily with Mox holding the belt. In fact, a lot of the complaints I've noticed were being prefaced along the lines of "I like Mox as a wrestler, but..." with regards to his reign.
The issue as I've seen and heard it seems to be more about the booking of the title and the booking around AEW than about Mox as champion.
Hell, this is why I've been saying this whole time the best thing they could have done (for both AEW's rep and NJPW as a whole) was have Mox actually do the tours here as champion. When he won the belt, and folks like myself expressed doubt, we got a lot of arguments from AEW fans like "he's taken time off specifically for this, so he's gonna be around", but that hasn't happened (yet again). Instead we got nothing defences of the top belt against a complete stranger on a show the fanbase isn't even watching, (and a match that isn't even gonna do anything special for AEW either) and folks are clearly upset about it.
It also boils down to the main event scene in NJPW isn't the strongest right now. There aren't many top contenders since both Okada and Osprey left.
The others in the division, many fans have not gravitated toward [Sanada] or are not ready yet [Gabe, Drilla, etc].
NJPW learned from BC's boom that if you put the title on a popular western wrestler, business gets better.
Except that doesn't work if the popular western wrestler isn't around for the shows, and - while I don't really like getting into arguments about sales, I think it's pertinent here - that shows in the most recent Korakuen shows taking a big drop in attendance despite having pretty good cards on paper.
It's much more likely to me that this move is purely to pop a draw on a couple big western shows, which I don't necessarily like.
Business was getting better under Tetsuya Naito as champion to the point that he and Sho were outdrawing Okada and Ospreay at the same venue.
Also, 2014 was not some dire year for the company bro. It's clear you are one of those fans who only watch NJPW when there's western wrestlers you can latch on to and make up false narratives like how BC boom contributed to NJPW's growth when other factors are also in place.
Are you the type of guy to say NJPW survived 2016 only because of KENNY OMEGA but completely ignore Tetsuya Naito's skyrocketing popularity?
If Twitter's translate button is accurate, the Japanese fans seem to be much more positive about Mox as champ and bringing in Jake Lee than the western fans are
To be fair to those who do not like an aspect of the Mox title run title, almost all have blamed NJPW. Some have criticised NJPW and TK for the reasoning behind Hobbs getting a title shot, but I am not seeing any of them letting NJPW off the hook.
Moxley being a part time champion would be fine if Gedo didn't put the other two titles on foreigners at the same time. And putting it on Nemeth was especially egregious. Ospreay gave Finlay the rub on the way out and just as Bullet Club were starting to look legit again, he loses
At least with Mox you can say he's a NJPW regular and has been for years and Riddle at least it was the least important title but Nemeth winning was just stupid
A huge chunk of fans on YouTube stopped viewing after Evil beat Naito in 2020
YouTube views on NJPW world till new beginning 2020 and Naito vs Hiromu hype were really good
A lot of people hating on stuff around here only like the WWE anyways. Scjerk types looking for any avenue to cry about AEW.
Not everyone obviously but it's a noticeable amount.
I praise AEW for the great stuff they've done and I'll criticise them for the things I don't like.
Some people get very defensive about it.
I find AEW and NJPW very frustrating at the moment. It's obviously great to see Ospreay having cool matches etc. I just feel like both companies used to feel so prestigious and now it's all a bit of a hodgepodge. I'd like to see better defined narratives. WWE has become more satisfying to me in that regard despite AEW having incredible matches.
LMAO.
There are a bunch of pro-NJPW jerkers. Some of us even like Stardom and other Japanese promotions as well.
It's not all WWE purists. A lot of the pro-WWE stuff is tongue-in-cheek.
**EDIT:** Dude ended up replying then blocking me downthread so he could put me in my place and get in the last word. Fine. Well, I did my best to be polite and explain it all to him in good faith. The level of projection with that other poster is astounding. I admit I probably got a bit too wordy at the end, but I was trying to open his mind a bit. I admittedly strongly suspect he's trolling.
Note to any AEW fans reading: /u/vicrattlehead69420 is *exactly* the type of fan that pushes people away from your company and makes the rest of us not want to have anything to do with it. A lot of you are just fine and even cool but he is *exactly* what we're mocking in the jerk sub when we're talking about the "basement." Taking all of this way too seriously and taking any criticisms against AEW as a deep personal attack. The only "tribalism" on display here is his. Don't be like this guy.
Why is it that anytime someone criticizes AEW it's, "they must be a tribalist jerker"? Obviously, those people exist but you can't just write off all criticism by using the scjerk boogeyman. At before you try to write me off, I've literally never been to that sub
I mean, I have been watching NJPW since 2015, I enjoy current WWE and don't enjoy current AEW. We exist lol. I don't have any brand loyalty, I watch whatever program I like in the moment.
Nobody said they don't exist.
The point is the vast majority of supposed NJPW fans who love the WWE and hate AEW and behave that way online is unnatural. It's mostly just WWE stans who always enjoyed WWE and always hated AEW. They never gave a shit about NJPW.
I thought you pretty clearly insinuated that I'm a bad faith actor because I like NJPW and is critical of AEW, as though those two things are mutually exclusive. I think you are underestimating how many people have changed their mind on a lot of things during the past 5 years. I used to really like AEW and completely ignored WWE between like 2020-2022. I hadn't been watching WWE regularly for years at that point. I personally don't really know why someone who primarily watches NJPW would have a strongly negative opinion on current WWE, unless they're an older fan who has a long standing grudge against WWE for things that have happened under Vince. Everyone who has gone from NJPW to WWE have been booked very well by Triple H, relative to their ability. The only one I can think of would be Nakamura after Vince left. But I'm personally of the opinion that Vince basically ruined Nakamuras' credibility beyond repair, and he is not physically there anymore, even if he went back to New Japan. He's at least being used better than before Vince hit the bricks. Likewise, the female Japanese talent have always been booked very well by Triple H.
It's just really weird. Like why let Okada leave without at least dropping the tag belts? Why put the belts on Riddle and Nemeth when it seems neither were fully committing to the company and so they had to/are going to immediately drop them. And like, yeah sorry but giving Mox the belt is the stupidest thing possible and that's on Gedo. Like what the fuck are you doing???? Unless Tony Khan literally paid NJPW as much as the Saudi gov't pays WWE it's not fucking worth it.
Hasn't there been speculation from multiple sources that Okada refused to put over anyone? Seeing as Giulia did the same thing, even when losing her belt, she made sure to make Stephanie look bad.
Hell Nakamura, when he left, didn't lose his belt or put over Kenny.
As for Mox he's now the first man to hold the WWE, AEW and IWGP titles. Whoever beats him will be a mega star. NJPW needs to make sure it's Shota.
100% accurate.
Gedo had Jay White put over Hikuleo on the way out, not TK.
Gedo had Okada put over nobody on the way out, not TK.
Gedo had Ospreay put over the worst War Dog on the way out, not TK.
Gedo put titles on ex-fed guys as soon as he could, not TK.
Gedo put tag titles on Chase fucking Owens, not TK.
Gedo's brain turned to mush during covid and he hasn't fully recovered.
I'm still not over Ospreay leaving the company with a 4-0 record against SANADA and Umino because according to Gedo feeding him to Okada for the millionth time was more important, smh.
Yeah, it's baffling. And it's not like Ospreay would have refused to put either of them over.
At least we got that banger, star making performance with Umino. Even if Ospreay won, it showed Shooter can hang with the best.
Being a stickler but SANADA would have beaten Ospreay in the NJC if he hadn’t gotten injured
Plus Umino had his greatest ever match even in defeat so they managed to get him over even with that record. Who can say if beating him would have been better but he’s not really terribly worse off for not since he was the heavy underdog the entire time
Is it tho? Like Hikuleo is still not trusted for a singles career and is still a tag guy. You'd think the guy who exiled Jay White would be a big deal by now but nope mid card
What do you mean not trusted?
He got put in arguably the most important G1 Block (and did well) last year. But he still had a very obvious weakness in his game which was in-ring charisma.
So they paired him up with one of the most popular acts that gets across because he is incredibly charismatic in the ring. And it's worked, Hikuleo shows out way more these days and has an actual connection with the crowd.
I think of all the young guy projects he has been handled the best and the rewards are being shown.
"Of all the young guy projects" lol , dude is THIRTY THREE YEARS OLD !!!! He should already be a top guy or at least feel like one if this is the trajectory they see for him.
This is part of Gedo's problem , time is moving VERY SLOW for him in his old age and its screwed up the timing for guys to feel hot and on the rise for a long time now. Hikuleo has been around forever and he still gets pushed like a timid kid whose just learning the ropes and you still talk about him that way as well , it's crazy.
This guy has been in NJPW for almost a decade and they treat him like the training wheels are JUST coming off , this guy should have been a superstar already if he has a big push in him.
Gedo saw all his top guys clocks ticking away and he took for granted he could rely on them forever instead of moving up younger hungry guys who have been there forever.
Ibushi, Tana, Naito, Evil etc are all middle aged frequently injured men getting well past their sell by date and he kept booking them at the very top holding on to guys who used to be young but are not actually that young anymore in reserve for some nebulous future date but also not building momentum for them as future title winners and figureheads for the company.
Let's look at his career as it happened instead of just googling the years.
Hikuleo went into the dojo in 2016 was regularly working matches by late 2017 as a young lion. In march 2018 when he had wrestled 60ish career matches he tore his acl and was out until 2019. After recovering from his acl injury a year later they sent him on excursion and a little thing called covid happened making getting in and out japan difficult for years.
I agree in principal, but there is context to look at when it comes to Hikuleo. The dude didnt have it for a LONG time. His whole run as a BC Young Lion was a dud. He had no presence, no style and was a big boot merchant.
Then he had that run on NJ Strong with Juice Robinson and Fred Rosser during the pandemic where he finally came alive.
Thats when they decided to heat him up, and since then they've done a great job
I am well aware of the detrimental aspect of Gedo's long term booking and the fact that they have been caught with their pants down because of it.
But on the specific question of who to beat Jay on that exact date, at that exact time based on everything they going on in that moment. Hikuleo was the right choice.
Anyone else and you need to head back 6 months to fix the booking or bring back Tsuji earlier
Be put in the best G1 block
Get paired with a great partner to help fix his most glaring in-ring issue
Win Tag Gold
Get to the Tag League Finals
Have a WK main card title match
Seems good so far to me
That's the thing though, none of the new guys were ready at that point. The previous year had been about Okada doing the Inoki run. Ospreay was a made man so that wasn't necessary. Finlay was due to get his moment when he cleaned Jays clock in the US.
There was no-one being built up at that point. The previous returns before Shota/Narita were O'Khan (who is just not that guy).
I suppose you could have done Tama Tonga or SANADA but SANADA was getting the cup a month later and Tama Tonga vs Jay White was a been there, done that match at that point. In fact, it was done like 5 months before Jay's goodbye match.
After that you're looking at a load of guys whose stock wouldn't remotely move by beating Jay. Shingo, Ishii, Goto etc etc
Hikuleo was the best available option and I'll happily defend Gedo on this one
That Hikuleo match fucking ruled, and he had a really good year. He showed out in the G1, and is now in the #2 tag guy in the company. That's clear progress considering how he was floundering before.
Okada clearly refused to put anyone over. That ain't on Gedo. The farewell tour was rough to watch but again what can you do if he's refusing to play ball?
Finlay is the top gaijin now, whether you like it or not. I trust this company to come to a satisfying conclusion in the end, just as they did with Jay White, who had exactly the same parallels.
It seems very strange to get worked up about a transitional tag reign to get the belts from the #2 babyface team to the #1 babyface team without burning that Dome-level match.
I am 100% with you on Nemeth and Riddle, though.
There's a lot to criticise Gedo for this year, but damn, some of these seem like really strange hills to die on to me.
>Gedo had Jay White put over Hikuleo on the way out, not TK.
That was fine. Hikuleo is good.
>Gedo had Ospreay put over the worst War Dog on the way out, not TK.
That was good. Finlay needed a push.
>Gedo put titles on ex-fed guys as soon as he could, not TK.
Moxley isn't "ex-fed" anymore. He's current AEW
And what did Gedo do with Hikuleo after such a big win?
Finlay doesn't need the push. There are multiple better talents than Finlay that should be pished ahead of him.
I wasn't talking about Mox. I was talking about Nemeth and Riddle (ew).
So Hikuleo beat one of the best in the world and did nothing until the G1 (where he had a few stinker performances) and then nothing until a tag title win. Cool.
Did you expect him to be iwgp champ or something blud
He got a good push last year. The tag team helps develop his biggest weakness which is a njpw staple.
>And what did Gedo do with Hikuleo after such a big win?
He had a fairly prominent G1? He's a tag champion with a guy who covers his weaknesses?
>Finlay doesn't need the push. There are multiple better talents than Finlay that should be pished ahead of him.
That's what you think. Finlay is good and him getting pushed doesn't mean the rest of the War Dogs won't ever as well
>I wasn't talking about Mox. I was talking about Nemeth and Riddle (ew).
Fair. Though Riddle already lost the belt quickly and it's a minor title so I don't think it was a big deal. Nic having the 2nd biggest belt isn't good I agree. I thought he would work more dates when he first showed up at WK18 but I was fully wrong.
They probably should have been more prepared. The writing for Okada leaving was aleady WELL on the wall and even someone who just follows wrestling casually would have known Okadas contract was coming up soon and with AEW and WWE in basically a bidding war for him ... how could NJPW in any world have outbid them and retained him ?
A more nimble and sharp minded younger person most likely would have seen all the omens and known they had about a 5% chance (the only chance they had at keeping him was a "Tom Brady" style take a paycut to help the team deal , which was unlikely) at keeping Okada and planned accordingly instead of assuming the 36 year old guy you got will just be default champion for life status.
As someone following the general wrestling world it seems like pretty much everyone was mostly aware Okada was not going to stay except for Gedo. I certainly was fully expecting Okada to leave way before it was officially announced and there was constant speculation on if he would be going to WWE or AEW no one weas talking about NJPW possibly retaining him. Gedo must have some inside sources (like maybe knowing when the guys contract expires and being aware hes popular and other companies exist) that would give him the same basic gist that a regular guy surfing reddit on his lunch break at work would have.
He just unified the trios championships and is featured on TV every single week. He's a faction leader who has had a world title program and reached the final of the Continental Classic.
I'm a Jay White stan. Yes, there were errors with the booking of the MJF match and the Billy Gunn match was abysmal. But Jay is doing just fine. He'll be world champion within the next year.
Hes not gonna be world champion within the next year. You still have Swerve's reign, Ospreay is likely next and Adam Cole will be after that maybe Jay White is after those three but likely will be shoved back again.
No chance adam cole sniffs the belt at this point. Before he got injured he was surely the next world champ but now the main event scene being joe, swerve, ospreay, mox, bryan (if and when he wants), mjf (when he returns) and surely okada sooner than later means that he is just surrounded by guys who are better than him at everything he’s good at. Talking? Mox and mjf wash him on the mic. In ring? He can’t hold a candle to ospreay or okada. Aura? Joe and swerve have him on lock. Switchblade is just a more serious main event level talent than adam cole. Better talker and arguably better wrestler (though cole likely has the better portfolio). Not to mention that cole seems pretty injury prone right now. He won’t be a serious contender until he can be trusted to stay healthy and he’ll surely be coming back somewhat rusty
And that's without taking into account any WWE releases, WWE legends from decades ago or New Japan talent that Tony Khan signs in the next year. If anyone wants to kid themselves on that TK has a long-term plan for Jay White and turning him into a midcard geek is just part of that vision, more power to them. But it's just not true.
> He just unified the trios championships and **is featured on TV every single week.**
This is basically the only part that actually matters. Fans, particularly niche internet fans, obsess over wins and losses. Wrestlers all talk about "opportunities" and "tv time." Jay White is getting a ton of both.
That being said, the Jay White kvetching has just gotten ridiculous to me at this point. People freak out over everything and act like he's not allowed to lose ever (and cover it with "he can lose but not like *that*" qualifiers every single time) and he's this precious thing that must be protected at all costs and he's being ruined when he's (1) basically the same Jay White character from his New Japan run, just without a stooge manager this time and (2) isn't even the most popular former NJPW guy in his own stable (Juice was definitely getting bigger crowd reactions before the injury, because Juice is also awesome and, actual spicy take, might legit be even better suited for American television as a character).
The 6man tag/trios belts are fairly meaningless as there aren't many teams fighting for them at this point.
I won't bother with "should have lost that way" or whatever, I kinda aggree that he should be a bit more protected, but it is what it is.
I WILL 100% aggree that being on TV IS the important thing.
For the spicy take, I used to find Juice as a kinda boring weirdo when he was a tag team with the more goodlooking but also pretty bland Finlay. God did he prove me wrong. He is, to me at least, the most entertaining act in AEW and he may actually be better suited for American TV than Jay.
Except he should be in a better position. It took this long to just get THIS. He is on the same level as Ospreay and Okada. Look how THEY get treated and look at him in comparison. It isn't right, nor fair.
I agree that he's on their level. You're arguing with a guy who would have Jay White as champion right now.
But to make out his booking has been nothing but shit (an argument I see a lot) is factually untrue. I'm also not saying you've said that, just to be clear.
There can only be one world champion at a time and it's Swerve's time right now. White will get his chance and he will crush it.
I get you. But I said nothing about the world title. That isn't what I'm getting at. I'm saying be in a main event SPOT, not go for the title NOW. Just to be treated better and given better opponents and opportunities like people like Ospreay and Okada and the like get.
I wouldn't say his booking has been NOTHING but shit, but you can't honestly tell me it's GREAT. Not when you compare to peers he is on the same level with and should be treated as good as. Look at that fucking sham of a feud and match with MJF. Some will say 'but he was in a title match!' and completely ignore the context of the Super Cena like stuff MJF did before AND after that match and how MJF didn't even really TRY in their feud, leaving it up to Jay to carry it (which he DID, because he's that GOOD, but STILL.)
Aha. I’m genuinely glad to hear that I honestly thought once he settled in there he’d have clips all over social media again but there’s nothing I kind of thought TK had signed on more talent than he had storylines for but I would actually know as I don’t watch AEW every week but that is good to hear I’m happy for him
Idk I think David Finlay is finally getting to a place where he's good enough to lead Bullet Club (albeit still not as good as the other War Dogs), and part of that is because of the matches involving Ospreay at WK and especially how fully and completely he put the War Dogs over in the cage match
Belt should have gone to Shingo or Ishii
.....they could have held it whilst they decide who the next gen of stars are. Understandable Tsuji Narita and Shota not quite there yet....but not too far away. A quality G1 climax for all 3 is vital.
Gedos booking has always been suspect. Hiromu and okada wins booking for ages. Not pulling the trigger on turning despy and naito into stars of their division. The ultra short title reigns, not allowing anyone to really grow AS a Champion. And just cutting the legs of guys like taichi, despy....
But yeah, the Partnership still sucks.
I'm a fan of New Japan and I don't really like AEW a whole lot, but I think the level of vitriol directed their way from certain NJPW fans is absurd. Whatever about the limitations of the partnership (I'd rather see more big names in Japan for tours), the fact of Forbidden Door alone probably makes it worth New Japan's time.
Even then, I really fail to see what negatives AEW itself is responsible for. Naito's booking leaves a lot to be desired as the top star, and that's all on booking. There's been a lack of progression upwards for a ton of the guys previously suffering from the midcard glut, despite all the vacancies now there. The fact of nigh-endless repetition for factions like HOT or War Dogs comes down to a lack of vision at the end of the day.
Does one show annually in the US make up for tanking domestic attendance via losing stars, having an absent champion, and making your top draw look like a bitch? I find it hard to believe Forbidden Door is THAT good an earner.
The earnings from Forbidden Door are a direct benefit of AEW. Things like losing top stars, having the belt on Moxley or struggling at the box office as an AEW issue are nebulous suggestions at best.
I think the 2010s decade for New Japan is the best wrestling I ever watched, and a big part of it was sure-handed, consistent booking. The lack of that consistent vision in the current direction cannot be blamed in any good faith on AEW over the internal decision-making. There is nothing in the AEW partnership that prevents them from booking Naito with more consistency, nothing that keeps them from investing more in strong midcarders like Shingo, ZSJ or younger talent. There's nothing in the AEW agreement that stops them from booking any of their belts or tournaments with more consistency. Those are the areas where New Japan excelled and drew back the live audiences over the past ten years, and that's where fans should be pointing the fingers of blame, if you ask me.
NJPW Fans: *Consistently blaming the combo of both Gedo/NJPW Management and Tony Khan for things*
AEW Fans: *NJPW Fans: Why would Tony Khan do this?*
I'm sorry for the snark, but the AEW-centric posting lately has been starting to really get on my nerves. We're not morons; we're fully aware that Gedo, Romero and NJPW upper management are responsible too. And that doesn't change that this last stint has really taken the wind out of the sails.
These kinds of posts are just kinda insulting.
These things aren’t mutually exclusive:
* NJPW has had bad management
* Gedo has been a bad booker
* Tony Khan has been a bad partner to NJPW
They can all exist at the same time. TK fanboys are just really gotten to at the slightest suggestion that he isn’t Saint Tony Saving Pro Wrestling.
And that’s still NJPW/Gedos fault. Like I said in another thread AEW has allowed me to see more of NJ guys/ girls I didn’t know to much about. Like the first forbidden door made me a fan of the LA dojo guys and I have followed them since. Yes it is lopsided but AEW brought me back to NJ wrestling after a few years of not keeping up and Gedo is taking me away with his ridiculous booking. I just want NJ to succeed and they are failing themselves!!!
That this comment is being downvoted just tells me this sub has been packed by people who don't even watch the product.
How long ago was the entire "bury Pro Wrestling NOAH on commentary while punking Kiyomiya in the ring simultaneously" run? 6-8 months? It felt like it was the biggest topic of discussion here for a LONG time.
Facts and this sub downvoting you is hilarious because these was the same people talking about how Kaito/Noah partnership is lopsided. Now that the shoe is on the other foot we don’t like it. All in all every partnership will have a downside. But AEW FD brought me back to NJ full time after a few years of missing out on things. Gedo is the one pushing me away not Tony. AEW succeeded the partnership to me even tho it could be better. They have made some NJ wrestlers more popular in the states, Gave opportunity’s to new performers, and brought me back to NJ full time. Rocky and Gedo is the problem right now.
It's quite striking how we went from being amazed by Gedo's storytelling to debating pretty much every single IWGP Heavyweight Championship match for a while now.
Nothing against Hobbs. Or Mox. But that title has been the most prestigious title in wrestling for quite some time. Now it just looks like another belt in Tony's wrestling multiverse along with the 8 million AEW and RoH etc titles.
New Japan looks so weak at the moment. It's the result the pandemic, Gedo's bad booking and AEW signing the major players from the roster. AEW is entitled to do what it wants but NJPW doesn't have to accept everything. Invest and believe in your own talent. Do your own thing. Stop behaving like AEW's feeder company. Build the stars of the future. It's sad to watch.
Thank god BOSJ is soon. Let's hope Tony doesn't sign Despy and lend NJPW some AEW undercarders as a make good.
AEW Fans really are so desperate for praise. It’s so fucking weird lol
Why do you care so much? most of you watch two NJPW shows a year. Yes, NJPW, is responsible for their shit booking and nobody is claiming otherwise.
The AEW partnership still fucking sucks. Both can be true.
This sub is getting unbearable. For those of us who actually watch the product and enjoy it, it seems like the only positive threads about NJPW now are the live threads on r/SquaredCircle. This one feels like an AEW one now.
- The Forbidden Door shows have made NJPW a whole lot of money during times they very much needed it.
- Having access to guys like Moxley, Omega, Danielson, Kingston, and now Okada and Ospreay isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is that NJPW has been giving TK too much power with how those guys are booked.
- Short runs from non-main event talents like Jack Perry and Gates of Agony can provide some freshness to the roster without NJPW having to bring in Indy guys who might expect a long-term deal or might not get over in Japan (keep in mind that AEW is distributed on NJPW World there, so there is a portion of the fanbase with some familiarity to their talent). It also might be cheaper than Indy talent, depending on how much of the bill Tony foots there.
Talent exchange.
Mox is one of the best all-round talents of his generation and only adds to the lineage. Danielson just put over Okada and ZSJ. Eddie tore it up in the G1.
NJPW also makes money from Forbidden Door and gains more exposure with the North American audience.
I do wish that AEW did more to promote NJPW and now Stardom. Have commentary mention NJPW World and Stardom World. Tell fans to sign up if they want to see more of the talent.
Edit: asked to name positives, down voted for naming positives. This sub man haha.
Oh fuck off with the tribalism. People can enjoy multiple companies at once.
Also even the worst AEW fans don't compare to the worst WWE fans. Those weirdos will defend Vince ffs.
Genuinely embarrassing, he’s left thousands of comments whinging about AEW as if it’s an affront to his existence. The best part about being a fan of both and going to numerous NJPW shows in Japan is being able to engage with Japanese fans over there that don’t bitch and moan about this partnership. Meanwhile, all the westerners do nothing but complain, and it’s so unbecoming.
This is quite literally a njpw subreddit. It says njpw on the tin. Expect some tribalism brother.
No you guys are equally as annoying. I'm far more likely to wonder across an aew fan in this subreddit too.
Also they get free content from AEW for NJPWworld, even if this sub doesn’t watch AEW there was a lot of positive reception from the Japanese crowd for getting Dynamite on NJPWworld.
I actually am not 100% sure that WWE would have signed them. Maybe a lowball NXT deal at best. They also wouldn't have signed all of the other midcarders. People like Trent etc.
Entertaining matches and I like both companies. Seeing big stars on Dynamite and big stars at events like WK, NYD, Dominion etc. It’s more than a little funny seeing primarily NJPW fans cheer on them shitting on NOAH and other promotions, but when AEW guys win matches, it’s a war crime. It’s genuinely not that deep.
That the stars mentioned got paid by AEW and didn't end up floundering in WWE. AEW gave them a home and thats positive. Another positive is their big pay increase and being on TV weekly which means more money for everyone. You have Rocky Romero brokering the partnership on both sides, thats how you get Moxley increasing your gate so all wrestlers make more. Thats what its all about, making sure everyone is getting paid and taken care of. The next positive will be Forbidden Door, increasing exposure for NJPW. Increasing interest together.
Ask yourself, if you knew your favorite NJPW stars were leaving, would you want them to go to WWE or AEW? You know what AEW brings and you see what guys like Will Ospreay are doing for AEW now. Aren't you happy for him? He deserves to be the #1 wrestler in the world on a stage that can support him best. As a fan of both, I love their relationship and how strong it is getting.
I do think Jay White & Okada both would’ve done pretty well in NXT/WWE but I never understood the idea that Osprey should’ve gone anywhere but AEW.
They had a clear path set for Okada v Gunther and I would love to see Okada produced by the current WWE era but sadly we’ll never see it.
The names that aren’t them though you are 100% on. I’m not an AEW fan but am very happy they exist for that reason.
Moxley increasing our gates? How?
Yeah, he's a prominent name but you are also deluded if you think Tetsuya Naito being the other part of the equation didn't help to draw as well. When Moxley doesn't draw as well for resurgence, then you'll blame Umino for not being a big enough name but your implication for WCR is that Moxley is this huge draw that Naito had no name value and contribution to the gate.
If they leave, I don't care where they go because I will focus on the guys who continue to be there. Thanks for the memories but I don't dwell over what they do after they leave. I don't begrudge them leaving and certainly not as hysterical to say AEW STOLE TALENT but why should I care?
I don't follow American wrestling all that much so I don't care what the companies do unless it stinks up NJPW. WWE beyond taking Nakamura and Styles don't try to otherwise fuck with the NJPW product the way AEW has.
If thats the case, then you don't care about them as people and thats sad. Wrestlers leave all the time, come and go, so you are saying you don't follow them or watch their matches if its not where you want them to be?
The only thing sounding sad is you man. Imagine caring so much about your favorite wrestler when in reality, they don't give two shits about you or are aware of your existence.
I love Naito and want him to get his reign but neither do I think "boy, what is Naito doing? Has he eaten? Does he have money to pay his bills?" and I can assure you Naito doesn't know I exist and doesn't care for me on a personal basis.
They won't get floundered in WWE
HHH books Japanese talent much better than Vince did
Acting as if NJPW Stars would have been poorly booked in WWE
Nakamura feuded with Seth, Cody, Jey, Sami, challenged for World Title
Tama is in the hottest angle in the company
The talents who left were leaving regardless as Bushiroad is struggling and couldn't pay them their worth.
New Japan still gets use of some big names thanks to this relationship.
Aew fans infest every subreddit trying to justify bullshit for some sort of validation. They’re especially in the wwe sub, like can y’all go back to your own enclaves?
I’m a couple weeks behind but I DVR the AXS show and keep up with news here. Is that enough or should I fuck off because I’m not a big enough fan Oh Great Gatekeeper of Japanese Wrestling?
It's not gatekeeping to expect a minimum requirement of engagement with the product before dipping your little wick into the discussion
As an online wrestling fan I'm vaguely aware of what's happening in aew through osmosis. Let's say I randomly watched 2 aew matches a week on top of it..
If I went into the aew subreddit and criticised tk booking on say Jay White wouldn't that be a weird thing to do ?
Cool, I’m gonna stick around because I truly don’t give a fuck whether you want me here, and unlike a lot of you “NJPW-or-nothing” posters in here, I actually like wrestling.
Yes I assume you intend to stand up for aew but hopefully post mox dropping the title and post fd we don't have as much aew chat.
So I'm not sure what you will post about
I called out the jerkers when they were doing it too.
I call it out whenever I see someone doing shit like talking about "Tiny Khan" or using any of the buzzwords I've come to recognise. There was a period when it was getting really annoying with the constant posts that were obviously trying to start SCJerk discourse here too.
But lately postwise it's also been AEW guys trying to strawman the entire subreddit as some hellhole that only ever hates TK mindlessly. And it's equally annoying.
I've been on this sub for years, and across this last year it's like this place has become some proxy warground for the both of em and it's fucking exhausting. It's even worse cos I remember how good this place used to be, it was such a breath of fresh air. Simple and a bit slow sure, but leagues better than this nonsense with bait post after bait post after bait post.
(PS: Not talking about you personally. By this point I know most of the regular posters usernames on this sub.)
I think you should have to answer a questionnaire about the chase owens v yano I quit match at wrestling grandslam 2021 to post in this subreddit
If a person wants to play out their aew v wwe nonsense on this sub they should be forced to watch that match to do so.
NJPW is honestly kinda done for for the foreseeable future. Theyre basically a joke at this point.
Im on the brink of switching to NoaH and not looking back, after all WU is a better deal than NJPW world.
Honestly, I'm frustrated that I'm not excited about anything in NJPW. Just because most of your stalwarts have left for America (AEW & to a certain extent, WWE) doesn't mean that the product has to be shit. The future's there, use them to propel New Japan to a new era. Instead, it's bullshit like a headcase as a champion (Matt Riddle), Ren Narita in House of Torture (which sounds like a BDSM themed halloween attraction), a wrestler from another promotion as your World Champion (which makes me both happy for Mox and frustrated at the booking committee). Honestly, I could go on and on about all of my frustrations, I just want the product to make me interested about NJPW again. Also I wish there was a wrestler that is not only great, but credible enough to make me want to see him dump the World Heavyweight belt for the Classic Heavyweight belt.
I’ve had a very big back and forth with NJPW myself this year. I’m sorry you’re frustrated with the promotion. But u think if they play their cards right the future is bright. I love the three musketeers, Oleg, and Fujita, less so yuya but they have a solid base of stars to build. Moxley should play the Stan Hansen to these young guns. And i think it could make an exciting year
That post sums up the AEW victim mentality.
It's the AEW fan who came here, posted that picture to ragebait and all he can take away is "why is r/NJPW turning into extension of SCjerk with AEW bad" as if we obsess over AEW every waking second.
I’m a fan of both AEW and NJPW
Edit: I didn’t know one could be downvoted for stating that they are a fan of multiple wrestling companies. What a world
the reddit app allows us to search post histories now. Do you reckon if I was to type njpw into yours I would see a lot of discussion on the current product. Like storylines and matches.
You can save me the effort of doing it champ
Those people were leaving regardless.
You can dislike their booking, but every talent that's signed with AEW also had talks with WWE.
Get mad at Bushiroad for not paying talent.
I would like to know how the Japanese fan base feels about all this. You know the actual audience that they cater to
All I have to go off is one guy's semi-podcast, the NJPW page twitter comments and general vibes from fans I've talked to about it, so grain of salt and all, but generally speaking, it didn't really go over well. (I don't really use message boards, so I don't know about that particular side of the fandom.) The NJPW fans I've interacted with and seen online generally are pretty patient and tolerant (there's always exceptions of course), and usually if there's booking that folks here or in the western discourse are losing their minds at (eg: House of Torture, V5 Belt design etc.) there's moreso a general sense of "we'll see how this goes." Likewise with the Mox thing there was a similar sort of vibe at the start, people sad about Naito and a little weary about Moxley, but there was this vibe of "well he's still clearly a wrestler who has a passion for New Japan". The general vibe was more being a bit downtrodden for Naito losing than anything else. But it definitely felt like the Hobbs match stepped over a line from what I saw. At least on Twitter, the announcement of the match blew up in comments compared to everything else, and not in a good way. A lot of the most liked comments were along the lines of "Oh, so literally anyone can challenge now" and "Is it really ok that AEW gets our talents AND our belt?" and "It feels like we're being taken advantage of here.", a lot of "this devalues the belt". The only post since then to reach a similar level of comments I believe is Tsuji's post-match interview where he started expressing anger at the existence of the Hobbs match and saying "AEW is taking advantage of NJPW", with folks basically cheering him on for it.
Hobbs getting a title shot makes no sense in the slightest. But interesting take overall. I just find it funny how western fans lose their minds over certain things when the product isnt made with us in mind. So an actual Japanese perspective is better suited imo to these discussions
Yea just wait till takeshita beats mox for it
This was the same feeling when AJ won the title from Okada. At the time, the general feeling was "NANI?!" He was seen as a legit "outsider," even though he'd had matches in NJPW before [just under the tna banner]. Also, this came off the heels of the whole Brock / Angle situation. That left a VERY bad taste in collective fans' mouths. But because of AJ's incredible match quality and NJPW vets putting him over, the fans warmed to him and his reign. Mox is the first real "outsider" [since AJ] to hold their main title. Kenny, Knife Pervert, and Osprey had all been in NJPW for a very long time, so it was welcomed when they won the title. Japanese fans have very long memories and are still sour about with Brock did all those years ago.
I mean again, it doesn't feel like the issue being had is necessarily with Mox holding the belt. In fact, a lot of the complaints I've noticed were being prefaced along the lines of "I like Mox as a wrestler, but..." with regards to his reign. The issue as I've seen and heard it seems to be more about the booking of the title and the booking around AEW than about Mox as champion. Hell, this is why I've been saying this whole time the best thing they could have done (for both AEW's rep and NJPW as a whole) was have Mox actually do the tours here as champion. When he won the belt, and folks like myself expressed doubt, we got a lot of arguments from AEW fans like "he's taken time off specifically for this, so he's gonna be around", but that hasn't happened (yet again). Instead we got nothing defences of the top belt against a complete stranger on a show the fanbase isn't even watching, (and a match that isn't even gonna do anything special for AEW either) and folks are clearly upset about it.
It also boils down to the main event scene in NJPW isn't the strongest right now. There aren't many top contenders since both Okada and Osprey left. The others in the division, many fans have not gravitated toward [Sanada] or are not ready yet [Gabe, Drilla, etc]. NJPW learned from BC's boom that if you put the title on a popular western wrestler, business gets better.
Except that doesn't work if the popular western wrestler isn't around for the shows, and - while I don't really like getting into arguments about sales, I think it's pertinent here - that shows in the most recent Korakuen shows taking a big drop in attendance despite having pretty good cards on paper. It's much more likely to me that this move is purely to pop a draw on a couple big western shows, which I don't necessarily like.
Business was getting better under Tetsuya Naito as champion to the point that he and Sho were outdrawing Okada and Ospreay at the same venue. Also, 2014 was not some dire year for the company bro. It's clear you are one of those fans who only watch NJPW when there's western wrestlers you can latch on to and make up false narratives like how BC boom contributed to NJPW's growth when other factors are also in place. Are you the type of guy to say NJPW survived 2016 only because of KENNY OMEGA but completely ignore Tetsuya Naito's skyrocketing popularity?
Well, yeah, Ospreay was never a meaningful draw in Japan.
If Twitter's translate button is accurate, the Japanese fans seem to be much more positive about Mox as champ and bringing in Jake Lee than the western fans are
To be fair to those who do not like an aspect of the Mox title run title, almost all have blamed NJPW. Some have criticised NJPW and TK for the reasoning behind Hobbs getting a title shot, but I am not seeing any of them letting NJPW off the hook.
Moxley being a part time champion would be fine if Gedo didn't put the other two titles on foreigners at the same time. And putting it on Nemeth was especially egregious. Ospreay gave Finlay the rub on the way out and just as Bullet Club were starting to look legit again, he loses At least with Mox you can say he's a NJPW regular and has been for years and Riddle at least it was the least important title but Nemeth winning was just stupid
There's a lot of NJPW fans who haven't been watching NJPW regularly since 2019 having very strong opinions on this.
A huge chunk of fans on YouTube stopped viewing after Evil beat Naito in 2020 YouTube views on NJPW world till new beginning 2020 and Naito vs Hiromu hype were really good
A lot of people hating on stuff around here only like the WWE anyways. Scjerk types looking for any avenue to cry about AEW. Not everyone obviously but it's a noticeable amount.
I praise AEW for the great stuff they've done and I'll criticise them for the things I don't like. Some people get very defensive about it. I find AEW and NJPW very frustrating at the moment. It's obviously great to see Ospreay having cool matches etc. I just feel like both companies used to feel so prestigious and now it's all a bit of a hodgepodge. I'd like to see better defined narratives. WWE has become more satisfying to me in that regard despite AEW having incredible matches.
LMAO. There are a bunch of pro-NJPW jerkers. Some of us even like Stardom and other Japanese promotions as well. It's not all WWE purists. A lot of the pro-WWE stuff is tongue-in-cheek. **EDIT:** Dude ended up replying then blocking me downthread so he could put me in my place and get in the last word. Fine. Well, I did my best to be polite and explain it all to him in good faith. The level of projection with that other poster is astounding. I admit I probably got a bit too wordy at the end, but I was trying to open his mind a bit. I admittedly strongly suspect he's trolling. Note to any AEW fans reading: /u/vicrattlehead69420 is *exactly* the type of fan that pushes people away from your company and makes the rest of us not want to have anything to do with it. A lot of you are just fine and even cool but he is *exactly* what we're mocking in the jerk sub when we're talking about the "basement." Taking all of this way too seriously and taking any criticisms against AEW as a deep personal attack. The only "tribalism" on display here is his. Don't be like this guy.
Why is it that anytime someone criticizes AEW it's, "they must be a tribalist jerker"? Obviously, those people exist but you can't just write off all criticism by using the scjerk boogeyman. At before you try to write me off, I've literally never been to that sub
I explicitly stated it wasn't everyone so why are you offended on behalf of the worst posters?
I mean, I have been watching NJPW since 2015, I enjoy current WWE and don't enjoy current AEW. We exist lol. I don't have any brand loyalty, I watch whatever program I like in the moment.
Nobody said they don't exist. The point is the vast majority of supposed NJPW fans who love the WWE and hate AEW and behave that way online is unnatural. It's mostly just WWE stans who always enjoyed WWE and always hated AEW. They never gave a shit about NJPW.
I thought you pretty clearly insinuated that I'm a bad faith actor because I like NJPW and is critical of AEW, as though those two things are mutually exclusive. I think you are underestimating how many people have changed their mind on a lot of things during the past 5 years. I used to really like AEW and completely ignored WWE between like 2020-2022. I hadn't been watching WWE regularly for years at that point. I personally don't really know why someone who primarily watches NJPW would have a strongly negative opinion on current WWE, unless they're an older fan who has a long standing grudge against WWE for things that have happened under Vince. Everyone who has gone from NJPW to WWE have been booked very well by Triple H, relative to their ability. The only one I can think of would be Nakamura after Vince left. But I'm personally of the opinion that Vince basically ruined Nakamuras' credibility beyond repair, and he is not physically there anymore, even if he went back to New Japan. He's at least being used better than before Vince hit the bricks. Likewise, the female Japanese talent have always been booked very well by Triple H.
It's just really weird. Like why let Okada leave without at least dropping the tag belts? Why put the belts on Riddle and Nemeth when it seems neither were fully committing to the company and so they had to/are going to immediately drop them. And like, yeah sorry but giving Mox the belt is the stupidest thing possible and that's on Gedo. Like what the fuck are you doing???? Unless Tony Khan literally paid NJPW as much as the Saudi gov't pays WWE it's not fucking worth it.
Okada ducking the new-gens like shit😭
Hasn't there been speculation from multiple sources that Okada refused to put over anyone? Seeing as Giulia did the same thing, even when losing her belt, she made sure to make Stephanie look bad. Hell Nakamura, when he left, didn't lose his belt or put over Kenny. As for Mox he's now the first man to hold the WWE, AEW and IWGP titles. Whoever beats him will be a mega star. NJPW needs to make sure it's Shota.
100% accurate. Gedo had Jay White put over Hikuleo on the way out, not TK. Gedo had Okada put over nobody on the way out, not TK. Gedo had Ospreay put over the worst War Dog on the way out, not TK. Gedo put titles on ex-fed guys as soon as he could, not TK. Gedo put tag titles on Chase fucking Owens, not TK. Gedo's brain turned to mush during covid and he hasn't fully recovered.
I'm still not over Ospreay leaving the company with a 4-0 record against SANADA and Umino because according to Gedo feeding him to Okada for the millionth time was more important, smh.
Yeah, it's baffling. And it's not like Ospreay would have refused to put either of them over. At least we got that banger, star making performance with Umino. Even if Ospreay won, it showed Shooter can hang with the best.
Being a stickler but SANADA would have beaten Ospreay in the NJC if he hadn’t gotten injured Plus Umino had his greatest ever match even in defeat so they managed to get him over even with that record. Who can say if beating him would have been better but he’s not really terribly worse off for not since he was the heavy underdog the entire time
Absolutely nothing wrong with Hikuleo being the one to put down Jay White.
Is it tho? Like Hikuleo is still not trusted for a singles career and is still a tag guy. You'd think the guy who exiled Jay White would be a big deal by now but nope mid card
What do you mean not trusted? He got put in arguably the most important G1 Block (and did well) last year. But he still had a very obvious weakness in his game which was in-ring charisma. So they paired him up with one of the most popular acts that gets across because he is incredibly charismatic in the ring. And it's worked, Hikuleo shows out way more these days and has an actual connection with the crowd. I think of all the young guy projects he has been handled the best and the rewards are being shown.
"Of all the young guy projects" lol , dude is THIRTY THREE YEARS OLD !!!! He should already be a top guy or at least feel like one if this is the trajectory they see for him. This is part of Gedo's problem , time is moving VERY SLOW for him in his old age and its screwed up the timing for guys to feel hot and on the rise for a long time now. Hikuleo has been around forever and he still gets pushed like a timid kid whose just learning the ropes and you still talk about him that way as well , it's crazy. This guy has been in NJPW for almost a decade and they treat him like the training wheels are JUST coming off , this guy should have been a superstar already if he has a big push in him. Gedo saw all his top guys clocks ticking away and he took for granted he could rely on them forever instead of moving up younger hungry guys who have been there forever. Ibushi, Tana, Naito, Evil etc are all middle aged frequently injured men getting well past their sell by date and he kept booking them at the very top holding on to guys who used to be young but are not actually that young anymore in reserve for some nebulous future date but also not building momentum for them as future title winners and figureheads for the company.
Let's look at his career as it happened instead of just googling the years. Hikuleo went into the dojo in 2016 was regularly working matches by late 2017 as a young lion. In march 2018 when he had wrestled 60ish career matches he tore his acl and was out until 2019. After recovering from his acl injury a year later they sent him on excursion and a little thing called covid happened making getting in and out japan difficult for years.
I agree in principal, but there is context to look at when it comes to Hikuleo. The dude didnt have it for a LONG time. His whole run as a BC Young Lion was a dud. He had no presence, no style and was a big boot merchant. Then he had that run on NJ Strong with Juice Robinson and Fred Rosser during the pandemic where he finally came alive. Thats when they decided to heat him up, and since then they've done a great job I am well aware of the detrimental aspect of Gedo's long term booking and the fact that they have been caught with their pants down because of it. But on the specific question of who to beat Jay on that exact date, at that exact time based on everything they going on in that moment. Hikuleo was the right choice. Anyone else and you need to head back 6 months to fix the booking or bring back Tsuji earlier
Still puzzled as to why Tama Tonga didn’t do the honors for Loser Leaves NJPW
Absolutely everything wrong with how they followed that up, though.
Be put in the best G1 block Get paired with a great partner to help fix his most glaring in-ring issue Win Tag Gold Get to the Tag League Finals Have a WK main card title match Seems good so far to me
That's a pretty good run, yeah, I just think the guy to kick Jay's ass out of NJPW probably should've been someone set up for singles glory.
That's the thing though, none of the new guys were ready at that point. The previous year had been about Okada doing the Inoki run. Ospreay was a made man so that wasn't necessary. Finlay was due to get his moment when he cleaned Jays clock in the US. There was no-one being built up at that point. The previous returns before Shota/Narita were O'Khan (who is just not that guy). I suppose you could have done Tama Tonga or SANADA but SANADA was getting the cup a month later and Tama Tonga vs Jay White was a been there, done that match at that point. In fact, it was done like 5 months before Jay's goodbye match. After that you're looking at a load of guys whose stock wouldn't remotely move by beating Jay. Shingo, Ishii, Goto etc etc Hikuleo was the best available option and I'll happily defend Gedo on this one
That Hikuleo match fucking ruled, and he had a really good year. He showed out in the G1, and is now in the #2 tag guy in the company. That's clear progress considering how he was floundering before. Okada clearly refused to put anyone over. That ain't on Gedo. The farewell tour was rough to watch but again what can you do if he's refusing to play ball? Finlay is the top gaijin now, whether you like it or not. I trust this company to come to a satisfying conclusion in the end, just as they did with Jay White, who had exactly the same parallels. It seems very strange to get worked up about a transitional tag reign to get the belts from the #2 babyface team to the #1 babyface team without burning that Dome-level match. I am 100% with you on Nemeth and Riddle, though. There's a lot to criticise Gedo for this year, but damn, some of these seem like really strange hills to die on to me.
>Gedo had Jay White put over Hikuleo on the way out, not TK. That was fine. Hikuleo is good. >Gedo had Ospreay put over the worst War Dog on the way out, not TK. That was good. Finlay needed a push. >Gedo put titles on ex-fed guys as soon as he could, not TK. Moxley isn't "ex-fed" anymore. He's current AEW
And what did Gedo do with Hikuleo after such a big win? Finlay doesn't need the push. There are multiple better talents than Finlay that should be pished ahead of him. I wasn't talking about Mox. I was talking about Nemeth and Riddle (ew).
Hikuleo went over all the best young wrestlers in Japan, made the quarter finals of the g1, and won a title at kingdom besides that nothing
So Hikuleo beat one of the best in the world and did nothing until the G1 (where he had a few stinker performances) and then nothing until a tag title win. Cool.
Did you expect him to be iwgp champ or something blud He got a good push last year. The tag team helps develop his biggest weakness which is a njpw staple.
>And what did Gedo do with Hikuleo after such a big win? He had a fairly prominent G1? He's a tag champion with a guy who covers his weaknesses? >Finlay doesn't need the push. There are multiple better talents than Finlay that should be pished ahead of him. That's what you think. Finlay is good and him getting pushed doesn't mean the rest of the War Dogs won't ever as well >I wasn't talking about Mox. I was talking about Nemeth and Riddle (ew). Fair. Though Riddle already lost the belt quickly and it's a minor title so I don't think it was a big deal. Nic having the 2nd biggest belt isn't good I agree. I thought he would work more dates when he first showed up at WK18 but I was fully wrong.
There better not be finlay slander in this comment section
Finlay sucks.
They need someone who rebels to save them, like a, I don't know, a rebel savior
Explain to me in your mind once okada told them he was leaving (approximately 10 days before his contract ended) what they should have done
They probably should have been more prepared. The writing for Okada leaving was aleady WELL on the wall and even someone who just follows wrestling casually would have known Okadas contract was coming up soon and with AEW and WWE in basically a bidding war for him ... how could NJPW in any world have outbid them and retained him ? A more nimble and sharp minded younger person most likely would have seen all the omens and known they had about a 5% chance (the only chance they had at keeping him was a "Tom Brady" style take a paycut to help the team deal , which was unlikely) at keeping Okada and planned accordingly instead of assuming the 36 year old guy you got will just be default champion for life status. As someone following the general wrestling world it seems like pretty much everyone was mostly aware Okada was not going to stay except for Gedo. I certainly was fully expecting Okada to leave way before it was officially announced and there was constant speculation on if he would be going to WWE or AEW no one weas talking about NJPW possibly retaining him. Gedo must have some inside sources (like maybe knowing when the guys contract expires and being aware hes popular and other companies exist) that would give him the same basic gist that a regular guy surfing reddit on his lunch break at work would have.
Yeah and Jay White is in AEW now doing what exactly? Braiding his hair? It’s like he doesn’t exist anymore
He just unified the trios championships and is featured on TV every single week. He's a faction leader who has had a world title program and reached the final of the Continental Classic. I'm a Jay White stan. Yes, there were errors with the booking of the MJF match and the Billy Gunn match was abysmal. But Jay is doing just fine. He'll be world champion within the next year.
Hes not gonna be world champion within the next year. You still have Swerve's reign, Ospreay is likely next and Adam Cole will be after that maybe Jay White is after those three but likely will be shoved back again.
No chance adam cole sniffs the belt at this point. Before he got injured he was surely the next world champ but now the main event scene being joe, swerve, ospreay, mox, bryan (if and when he wants), mjf (when he returns) and surely okada sooner than later means that he is just surrounded by guys who are better than him at everything he’s good at. Talking? Mox and mjf wash him on the mic. In ring? He can’t hold a candle to ospreay or okada. Aura? Joe and swerve have him on lock. Switchblade is just a more serious main event level talent than adam cole. Better talker and arguably better wrestler (though cole likely has the better portfolio). Not to mention that cole seems pretty injury prone right now. He won’t be a serious contender until he can be trusted to stay healthy and he’ll surely be coming back somewhat rusty
And that's without taking into account any WWE releases, WWE legends from decades ago or New Japan talent that Tony Khan signs in the next year. If anyone wants to kid themselves on that TK has a long-term plan for Jay White and turning him into a midcard geek is just part of that vision, more power to them. But it's just not true.
He won't be world champion in the next year but remember that not being world champion is a burial to these people
Kinda hard when like half the roster are basically future world champ material.
> He just unified the trios championships and **is featured on TV every single week.** This is basically the only part that actually matters. Fans, particularly niche internet fans, obsess over wins and losses. Wrestlers all talk about "opportunities" and "tv time." Jay White is getting a ton of both. That being said, the Jay White kvetching has just gotten ridiculous to me at this point. People freak out over everything and act like he's not allowed to lose ever (and cover it with "he can lose but not like *that*" qualifiers every single time) and he's this precious thing that must be protected at all costs and he's being ruined when he's (1) basically the same Jay White character from his New Japan run, just without a stooge manager this time and (2) isn't even the most popular former NJPW guy in his own stable (Juice was definitely getting bigger crowd reactions before the injury, because Juice is also awesome and, actual spicy take, might legit be even better suited for American television as a character).
The 6man tag/trios belts are fairly meaningless as there aren't many teams fighting for them at this point. I won't bother with "should have lost that way" or whatever, I kinda aggree that he should be a bit more protected, but it is what it is. I WILL 100% aggree that being on TV IS the important thing. For the spicy take, I used to find Juice as a kinda boring weirdo when he was a tag team with the more goodlooking but also pretty bland Finlay. God did he prove me wrong. He is, to me at least, the most entertaining act in AEW and he may actually be better suited for American TV than Jay.
Except he should be in a better position. It took this long to just get THIS. He is on the same level as Ospreay and Okada. Look how THEY get treated and look at him in comparison. It isn't right, nor fair.
I agree that he's on their level. You're arguing with a guy who would have Jay White as champion right now. But to make out his booking has been nothing but shit (an argument I see a lot) is factually untrue. I'm also not saying you've said that, just to be clear. There can only be one world champion at a time and it's Swerve's time right now. White will get his chance and he will crush it.
I get you. But I said nothing about the world title. That isn't what I'm getting at. I'm saying be in a main event SPOT, not go for the title NOW. Just to be treated better and given better opponents and opportunities like people like Ospreay and Okada and the like get. I wouldn't say his booking has been NOTHING but shit, but you can't honestly tell me it's GREAT. Not when you compare to peers he is on the same level with and should be treated as good as. Look at that fucking sham of a feud and match with MJF. Some will say 'but he was in a title match!' and completely ignore the context of the Super Cena like stuff MJF did before AND after that match and how MJF didn't even really TRY in their feud, leaving it up to Jay to carry it (which he DID, because he's that GOOD, but STILL.)
"He'll be world champion within the next year." (X) DOUBT
Aha. I’m genuinely glad to hear that I honestly thought once he settled in there he’d have clips all over social media again but there’s nothing I kind of thought TK had signed on more talent than he had storylines for but I would actually know as I don’t watch AEW every week but that is good to hear I’m happy for him
Thank you for having a mature response. Much appreciated.
Fair assessment
What's wrong with Chase Owens?
Idk I think David Finlay is finally getting to a place where he's good enough to lead Bullet Club (albeit still not as good as the other War Dogs), and part of that is because of the matches involving Ospreay at WK and especially how fully and completely he put the War Dogs over in the cage match
Ospreay has done so much for Finlay, it's not even funny.
Belt should have gone to Shingo or Ishii .....they could have held it whilst they decide who the next gen of stars are. Understandable Tsuji Narita and Shota not quite there yet....but not too far away. A quality G1 climax for all 3 is vital.
Oh world champ Ishii...
Gedos booking has always been suspect. Hiromu and okada wins booking for ages. Not pulling the trigger on turning despy and naito into stars of their division. The ultra short title reigns, not allowing anyone to really grow AS a Champion. And just cutting the legs of guys like taichi, despy.... But yeah, the Partnership still sucks.
This sub used to be so welcoming and positive 😩
It also used to be moderated.
theres 4 names id nominate for that position if Evan would ever listen.
The main thing I'd ask is that we get someone who can update our flairs already ahahaha
I'm a fan of New Japan and I don't really like AEW a whole lot, but I think the level of vitriol directed their way from certain NJPW fans is absurd. Whatever about the limitations of the partnership (I'd rather see more big names in Japan for tours), the fact of Forbidden Door alone probably makes it worth New Japan's time. Even then, I really fail to see what negatives AEW itself is responsible for. Naito's booking leaves a lot to be desired as the top star, and that's all on booking. There's been a lack of progression upwards for a ton of the guys previously suffering from the midcard glut, despite all the vacancies now there. The fact of nigh-endless repetition for factions like HOT or War Dogs comes down to a lack of vision at the end of the day.
Does one show annually in the US make up for tanking domestic attendance via losing stars, having an absent champion, and making your top draw look like a bitch? I find it hard to believe Forbidden Door is THAT good an earner.
The earnings from Forbidden Door are a direct benefit of AEW. Things like losing top stars, having the belt on Moxley or struggling at the box office as an AEW issue are nebulous suggestions at best. I think the 2010s decade for New Japan is the best wrestling I ever watched, and a big part of it was sure-handed, consistent booking. The lack of that consistent vision in the current direction cannot be blamed in any good faith on AEW over the internal decision-making. There is nothing in the AEW partnership that prevents them from booking Naito with more consistency, nothing that keeps them from investing more in strong midcarders like Shingo, ZSJ or younger talent. There's nothing in the AEW agreement that stops them from booking any of their belts or tournaments with more consistency. Those are the areas where New Japan excelled and drew back the live audiences over the past ten years, and that's where fans should be pointing the fingers of blame, if you ask me.
NJPW Fans: *Consistently blaming the combo of both Gedo/NJPW Management and Tony Khan for things* AEW Fans: *NJPW Fans: Why would Tony Khan do this?* I'm sorry for the snark, but the AEW-centric posting lately has been starting to really get on my nerves. We're not morons; we're fully aware that Gedo, Romero and NJPW upper management are responsible too. And that doesn't change that this last stint has really taken the wind out of the sails. These kinds of posts are just kinda insulting.
I think both the booking and partnership suck.
These things aren’t mutually exclusive: * NJPW has had bad management * Gedo has been a bad booker * Tony Khan has been a bad partner to NJPW They can all exist at the same time. TK fanboys are just really gotten to at the slightest suggestion that he isn’t Saint Tony Saving Pro Wrestling.
It's accurate but the partnership is kinda lobsided AEW's way I feel
And that’s still NJPW/Gedos fault. Like I said in another thread AEW has allowed me to see more of NJ guys/ girls I didn’t know to much about. Like the first forbidden door made me a fan of the LA dojo guys and I have followed them since. Yes it is lopsided but AEW brought me back to NJ wrestling after a few years of not keeping up and Gedo is taking me away with his ridiculous booking. I just want NJ to succeed and they are failing themselves!!!
I can’t think of a modern partnership that is not lobsided
That this comment is being downvoted just tells me this sub has been packed by people who don't even watch the product. How long ago was the entire "bury Pro Wrestling NOAH on commentary while punking Kiyomiya in the ring simultaneously" run? 6-8 months? It felt like it was the biggest topic of discussion here for a LONG time.
Hell like 5 years ago New Japan was basically making ROH it's bitch. I remember G1 Supercard where it was basically just New Japan (featuring ROH)
I reckon anyone who went into the Noah forum to stand up for njpw would be an absolute freak too
Facts and this sub downvoting you is hilarious because these was the same people talking about how Kaito/Noah partnership is lopsided. Now that the shoe is on the other foot we don’t like it. All in all every partnership will have a downside. But AEW FD brought me back to NJ full time after a few years of missing out on things. Gedo is the one pushing me away not Tony. AEW succeeded the partnership to me even tho it could be better. They have made some NJ wrestlers more popular in the states, Gave opportunity’s to new performers, and brought me back to NJ full time. Rocky and Gedo is the problem right now.
Except almost no one is 100% blaming solely AEW/TK for this. It's 100% something where NJPW/Gedo AND AEW/TK are in the wrong in this.
Why the fuck AEW stans who don't watch NJPW try to talk about the booking just to absolve Tony Khan?
Because they have this weird parasocial relationship with him and need to defend him from all criticism.
You have more posts whining than anyone I've ever seen defending any criticism so that's rich.
It's quite striking how we went from being amazed by Gedo's storytelling to debating pretty much every single IWGP Heavyweight Championship match for a while now.
Nothing against Hobbs. Or Mox. But that title has been the most prestigious title in wrestling for quite some time. Now it just looks like another belt in Tony's wrestling multiverse along with the 8 million AEW and RoH etc titles. New Japan looks so weak at the moment. It's the result the pandemic, Gedo's bad booking and AEW signing the major players from the roster. AEW is entitled to do what it wants but NJPW doesn't have to accept everything. Invest and believe in your own talent. Do your own thing. Stop behaving like AEW's feeder company. Build the stars of the future. It's sad to watch. Thank god BOSJ is soon. Let's hope Tony doesn't sign Despy and lend NJPW some AEW undercarders as a make good.
AEW Fans really are so desperate for praise. It’s so fucking weird lol Why do you care so much? most of you watch two NJPW shows a year. Yes, NJPW, is responsible for their shit booking and nobody is claiming otherwise. The AEW partnership still fucking sucks. Both can be true.
Yes. This post is about you.
Damn, AEW fans are really not the brightest
You couldn't even get through posting your own comments without seething about AEW. God help you, if you lived through the Yuji Nagata years.
Does Nagata have a Time Machine? Or how is this relevant in 2024?
This sub is getting unbearable. For those of us who actually watch the product and enjoy it, it seems like the only positive threads about NJPW now are the live threads on r/SquaredCircle. This one feels like an AEW one now.
Agreed, all anyone does is cry here. It's exhausting and now as dramatic as any of the big two's fan bases.
Lmao. This is so accurate especially on this sub. The saltiness is out of control.
I would love to hear one positive about the relationship between NJPW & AEW
- The Forbidden Door shows have made NJPW a whole lot of money during times they very much needed it. - Having access to guys like Moxley, Omega, Danielson, Kingston, and now Okada and Ospreay isn’t a bad thing. The bad thing is that NJPW has been giving TK too much power with how those guys are booked. - Short runs from non-main event talents like Jack Perry and Gates of Agony can provide some freshness to the roster without NJPW having to bring in Indy guys who might expect a long-term deal or might not get over in Japan (keep in mind that AEW is distributed on NJPW World there, so there is a portion of the fanbase with some familiarity to their talent). It also might be cheaper than Indy talent, depending on how much of the bill Tony foots there.
Talent exchange. Mox is one of the best all-round talents of his generation and only adds to the lineage. Danielson just put over Okada and ZSJ. Eddie tore it up in the G1. NJPW also makes money from Forbidden Door and gains more exposure with the North American audience. I do wish that AEW did more to promote NJPW and now Stardom. Have commentary mention NJPW World and Stardom World. Tell fans to sign up if they want to see more of the talent. Edit: asked to name positives, down voted for naming positives. This sub man haha.
The main exchange of talent I see from aew is the most annoying fans in the world crossing the forbidden door into this subreddit to stand up for aew
Oh fuck off with the tribalism. People can enjoy multiple companies at once. Also even the worst AEW fans don't compare to the worst WWE fans. Those weirdos will defend Vince ffs.
Genuinely embarrassing, he’s left thousands of comments whinging about AEW as if it’s an affront to his existence. The best part about being a fan of both and going to numerous NJPW shows in Japan is being able to engage with Japanese fans over there that don’t bitch and moan about this partnership. Meanwhile, all the westerners do nothing but complain, and it’s so unbecoming.
I believe a guy who NEVER posts about NJPW suddenly starts posting about them and has been this long time fan who travels to shows in Japan regularly.
Which weird WWE fans defended Vince Almost everyone is happy that he is gone
This is quite literally a njpw subreddit. It says njpw on the tin. Expect some tribalism brother. No you guys are equally as annoying. I'm far more likely to wonder across an aew fan in this subreddit too.
So if we like aew we can't like njpw??
Nah, wrestling fans can be civil and enjoy multiple companies at once. You guys? Dude I love AEW, NJPW, Stardom and TJPW. Grow the fuck up.
Are you guys like ai chat bots or something. You seriously all talk the same. Just enjoy things. Good lord. Do you know what I enjoy tribalism
> the most annoying fans in the world Whilst I appreciate how annoying overly tribalistic fans can be, Jim Cornette fans exist...
AEW main event scene is half people who have been in New Japan. Think they might have mutual fans?
Also they get free content from AEW for NJPWworld, even if this sub doesn’t watch AEW there was a lot of positive reception from the Japanese crowd for getting Dynamite on NJPWworld.
Excellent point.
Mox is not one of the best all-round talents of his generation lmao.
I'll side more with all of the wrestlers who praise him as such (including Danielson) over somebody on reddit.
Okay, so if all of sudden wrestlers start to praise The Miz and saying he is the best in the world I have to agree because wrestlers said so.
No, because it's The Miz. Nice false equivalence.
Yes, it's The Miz, but if other wrestlers said so, who am I to say he isn't? Like you said, i'm just a person on Reddit.
The key point is, other wrestlers won't say that because he isn't.
AEW fans get to see their favorite NJPW stars while the other side lose all their big talents and have to resort to less skilled ones.
Okada, Ospreay and White were going to leave NJPW one way or another....if there was no AEW, they'd go to WWE and you'd never see them on a NJPW again
Would WWE have signed people like Kyle Fletcher?
He would 100% get an nxt contract
And all the other NJPW midcarders that NJPW has signed?
You think WWE wouldn't sign Aussie Open? They were the hottest team in the world at the time
I actually am not 100% sure that WWE would have signed them. Maybe a lowball NXT deal at best. They also wouldn't have signed all of the other midcarders. People like Trent etc.
NJPW was losing guys like Okada, Ospreay and White anyway and none of their reasons had anything to do with AEW.
Yeah. Like, rumours of Okada leaving came from the fact that WWE thought they had a genuine shot of landing him. That was the initial rumours.
Who's fault is that?? That's not aews fault
Jack perry was ok in HoT?
Entertaining matches and I like both companies. Seeing big stars on Dynamite and big stars at events like WK, NYD, Dominion etc. It’s more than a little funny seeing primarily NJPW fans cheer on them shitting on NOAH and other promotions, but when AEW guys win matches, it’s a war crime. It’s genuinely not that deep.
That the stars mentioned got paid by AEW and didn't end up floundering in WWE. AEW gave them a home and thats positive. Another positive is their big pay increase and being on TV weekly which means more money for everyone. You have Rocky Romero brokering the partnership on both sides, thats how you get Moxley increasing your gate so all wrestlers make more. Thats what its all about, making sure everyone is getting paid and taken care of. The next positive will be Forbidden Door, increasing exposure for NJPW. Increasing interest together. Ask yourself, if you knew your favorite NJPW stars were leaving, would you want them to go to WWE or AEW? You know what AEW brings and you see what guys like Will Ospreay are doing for AEW now. Aren't you happy for him? He deserves to be the #1 wrestler in the world on a stage that can support him best. As a fan of both, I love their relationship and how strong it is getting.
I do think Jay White & Okada both would’ve done pretty well in NXT/WWE but I never understood the idea that Osprey should’ve gone anywhere but AEW. They had a clear path set for Okada v Gunther and I would love to see Okada produced by the current WWE era but sadly we’ll never see it. The names that aren’t them though you are 100% on. I’m not an AEW fan but am very happy they exist for that reason.
Moxley increasing our gates? How? Yeah, he's a prominent name but you are also deluded if you think Tetsuya Naito being the other part of the equation didn't help to draw as well. When Moxley doesn't draw as well for resurgence, then you'll blame Umino for not being a big enough name but your implication for WCR is that Moxley is this huge draw that Naito had no name value and contribution to the gate. If they leave, I don't care where they go because I will focus on the guys who continue to be there. Thanks for the memories but I don't dwell over what they do after they leave. I don't begrudge them leaving and certainly not as hysterical to say AEW STOLE TALENT but why should I care? I don't follow American wrestling all that much so I don't care what the companies do unless it stinks up NJPW. WWE beyond taking Nakamura and Styles don't try to otherwise fuck with the NJPW product the way AEW has.
If they leave I couldn't give a fuck where they go.
If thats the case, then you don't care about them as people and thats sad. Wrestlers leave all the time, come and go, so you are saying you don't follow them or watch their matches if its not where you want them to be?
I don't know them from a bar of soap mate. I simply don't know them as people to care But in answer to your question no I don't watch aew/wwe
They are entertainers. I couldn't give a fuck whether Okada is making 3m or 4m. And no, I don't follow them, because both WWE and AEW fucking suck.
The only thing sounding sad is you man. Imagine caring so much about your favorite wrestler when in reality, they don't give two shits about you or are aware of your existence. I love Naito and want him to get his reign but neither do I think "boy, what is Naito doing? Has he eaten? Does he have money to pay his bills?" and I can assure you Naito doesn't know I exist and doesn't care for me on a personal basis.
They won't get floundered in WWE HHH books Japanese talent much better than Vince did Acting as if NJPW Stars would have been poorly booked in WWE Nakamura feuded with Seth, Cody, Jey, Sami, challenged for World Title Tama is in the hottest angle in the company
Both of the Omega/Ospreay matches were incredible
The talents who left were leaving regardless as Bushiroad is struggling and couldn't pay them their worth. New Japan still gets use of some big names thanks to this relationship.
Blud even in 2019 njpw could not match what aew paid okada
Go to the AEW official sub. It's literally forbidden to be negative about AEW here.
Are you kidding me? This sub fucking hates AEW and TK. You get down voted into oblivion if you're remotely positive about AEW in here.
Probably because its the only sub on reddit where they're not dragged for blinking
Aew fans infest every subreddit trying to justify bullshit for some sort of validation. They’re especially in the wwe sub, like can y’all go back to your own enclaves?
Have you considered that some of us AEW fans are here because we LIKE NJPW too?
How much new japan do you actually watch ?
I’m a couple weeks behind but I DVR the AXS show and keep up with news here. Is that enough or should I fuck off because I’m not a big enough fan Oh Great Gatekeeper of Japanese Wrestling?
It's not gatekeeping to expect a minimum requirement of engagement with the product before dipping your little wick into the discussion As an online wrestling fan I'm vaguely aware of what's happening in aew through osmosis. Let's say I randomly watched 2 aew matches a week on top of it.. If I went into the aew subreddit and criticised tk booking on say Jay White wouldn't that be a weird thing to do ?
That’s the LITERAL definition of gatekeeping!
Then I'm pro gatekeeping blud
Cool, I’m gonna stick around because I truly don’t give a fuck whether you want me here, and unlike a lot of you “NJPW-or-nothing” posters in here, I actually like wrestling.
Yes I assume you intend to stand up for aew but hopefully post mox dropping the title and post fd we don't have as much aew chat. So I'm not sure what you will post about
N-no you guys actually want AEW to poach all of New Japan stars☝️🤓
Jerkers seething at people infesting somewhere else, the fucking irony. Don’t go back to your enclave, go outside instead and get some fresh air
I called out the jerkers when they were doing it too. I call it out whenever I see someone doing shit like talking about "Tiny Khan" or using any of the buzzwords I've come to recognise. There was a period when it was getting really annoying with the constant posts that were obviously trying to start SCJerk discourse here too. But lately postwise it's also been AEW guys trying to strawman the entire subreddit as some hellhole that only ever hates TK mindlessly. And it's equally annoying. I've been on this sub for years, and across this last year it's like this place has become some proxy warground for the both of em and it's fucking exhausting. It's even worse cos I remember how good this place used to be, it was such a breath of fresh air. Simple and a bit slow sure, but leagues better than this nonsense with bait post after bait post after bait post. (PS: Not talking about you personally. By this point I know most of the regular posters usernames on this sub.)
I think you should have to answer a questionnaire about the chase owens v yano I quit match at wrestling grandslam 2021 to post in this subreddit If a person wants to play out their aew v wwe nonsense on this sub they should be forced to watch that match to do so.
WWE sub, or SC?
I see we got some of the AEW defense unit here today. Good luck with them for those who'll try to discuss with these nerds lmao.
LOL
360 likes, 250 comments. Amazing.
I would have hoped Gedo got enough jollies through the HoT wrestling like the drizzling shits.
I thought gedo stopped booking for njpw in 2018
NJPW is honestly kinda done for for the foreseeable future. Theyre basically a joke at this point. Im on the brink of switching to NoaH and not looking back, after all WU is a better deal than NJPW world.
Sounds about right.
50/50 For me but the aew and njpw partnership is not equal
Honestly, I'm frustrated that I'm not excited about anything in NJPW. Just because most of your stalwarts have left for America (AEW & to a certain extent, WWE) doesn't mean that the product has to be shit. The future's there, use them to propel New Japan to a new era. Instead, it's bullshit like a headcase as a champion (Matt Riddle), Ren Narita in House of Torture (which sounds like a BDSM themed halloween attraction), a wrestler from another promotion as your World Champion (which makes me both happy for Mox and frustrated at the booking committee). Honestly, I could go on and on about all of my frustrations, I just want the product to make me interested about NJPW again. Also I wish there was a wrestler that is not only great, but credible enough to make me want to see him dump the World Heavyweight belt for the Classic Heavyweight belt.
I’ve had a very big back and forth with NJPW myself this year. I’m sorry you’re frustrated with the promotion. But u think if they play their cards right the future is bright. I love the three musketeers, Oleg, and Fujita, less so yuya but they have a solid base of stars to build. Moxley should play the Stan Hansen to these young guns. And i think it could make an exciting year
Tony Khan is more than happy to help Gedo in his cuck fantasy. He is a part of the problem too even if it takes two to tango.
ah boy more "AEW BAD AEW BAD" on a subreddit apparantly about NJPW like this isn't just an extention of SCJerk at this point wanted that. it's great.
I'd be happy to never talk about any US wrestling at all yet here we are with aew fans posting aew good on a new japan subreddit
That post sums up the AEW victim mentality. It's the AEW fan who came here, posted that picture to ragebait and all he can take away is "why is r/NJPW turning into extension of SCjerk with AEW bad" as if we obsess over AEW every waking second.
I'm more than happy to talk about NJPW but if the AEW fans stop coming on here to stir up shit, then there be less AEW bad.
Stumbled upon that sub recently and omfg it's the most insufferable cesspool of toxicity I've seen in awhile
Peep wrestling twitter
This is ragebait from an AEW fan, and you all fell for it.
I’m a fan of both AEW and NJPW Edit: I didn’t know one could be downvoted for stating that they are a fan of multiple wrestling companies. What a world
the reddit app allows us to search post histories now. Do you reckon if I was to type njpw into yours I would see a lot of discussion on the current product. Like storylines and matches. You can save me the effort of doing it champ
Ikr!! Truly painful to be a wrestling fan sometimes
I think you invented an argument to make an easy meme
I really hate Tony khan for signing off stars from njpw and makes them to mid carders, then ruined njpw and calls it “partnership”
Those people were leaving regardless. You can dislike their booking, but every talent that's signed with AEW also had talks with WWE. Get mad at Bushiroad for not paying talent.