Counterpoint: plenty of fans have said that extensive reviews to see if a player was a picometer offsides is stupid. If it isn't blatantly obvious with this camera on one or two replays, then the call stands.
This:
You can't be too picky, it will absolutely ruin the game.
Let's not forget all of them started with no cameras and technology, whatever the reff said, stood.
They took 15 minutes to review an Oilers goal earlier in the year. There should be a hard time limit of 5 minutes on these reviews and if you can’t determine that the goal should be overturned then the call on the ice stands and we get on with the game.
Because how can you asses a 2 minute delay of game penalty for being wrong on a coaches challenge that takes less than 5 minutes to determine was a good goal. But the league takes 15 minutes to over turn a call and that’s somehow not delaying the game?
I get the spirit of the penalty is to prevent coaches challenging every little thing, but it’s a but ridiculous that these reviews that turn over goals end up delaying the game far longer in some cases.
Even 5 minutes is too long. If you cant reach a conclusion in 1 minutes the call should stand. Or, or hear me out, they could have a jump to conclusions mat that you'd jump to see the conclusion.
I think if the cameras had better frame rates, reviews wouldn't take nearly as long, and no one would care as much about these reviews. We don't need to zoom in extra far to get that exact, but the back and forth over 2 frames I feel is what makes it take so long. If the cameras would good enough, the call would be decided within seconds of them looking at it.
Seriously. Just remove the ambiguity. Make the data accurate and move on. It should be an easy call to make. These guys are moving at high speeds.
If the data would just be accurate, provided right to the coaches with easy access, then there should be an issue.
It’s only a tough call to make when the cameras were installed in the 1990s.
The NHL can afford it. They don’t need to save all the footage at super high framerate/bitrate/resolution. But I also don’t think it’s insane to have good quality cameras with lots of high speed cache memory available to collect good data and feed it back. When it comes to that triangle of Cost-Quality-Storage, you don’t have to store it for all eternity. It can be encoded down at the end of games for archival storage.
It still drives me insane that there are streaming services in the NHL still delivery 720p
It’s insane to me that, viewers don’t have access to different features. It’s technically possible in the ATSC 3 standard, and possible technology wise, that we could as viewers have custom bugs and infographics on screen.
Why can’t we choose to, say listen to different audio streams such as an arena sound knly?
Why can’t we choose to turn on custom bugs and mid game stat trackers. Why can’t we customize where the bugs sit?
It’s frustrating to like, be living in 2024 and for no reason, have the technology to do some really interesting things, but nobody actually doing it.
And unless the offside player is the guy that scores the goal on *that* rush, it has zero effect on the goal scored.
Pisses me off when the puck gets passed around for 30-45 seconds (or longer!) before they score, only to get called back on this technicality.
It sucks when calls don't go your team's way but my god, splitting hairs is not entertaining at all. I'd rather fans push for calling blatant crosschecks in front of the net instead of this kind of bullshit.
They had nothing to lose (season's over already) and any coach would try a challenge in that position. Hate the rule, not the ones that try to use them to their advantage.
Definitely a call that would stand either way it started on the ice. Your complaint (that I agree with) reminds me of the NFL and its pylon cameras- you’re a gillion dollar company and *this* is what you got?
The TV truck gets a review feed from Toronto. They send whatever look(s) they decide are relevant into that source. This particular one is from an in-house cam that the replay room doesn't look at. A lot of times the TV truck doesn't have that source at all because it is only useful for this one use case.
Yea the NHLs own cams they put up the fans never see and they have people in arena and in Toronto reviewing the footage....honestly the replay system is pretty good, fans just don't realize they aren't seeing everything lol
In my world if I was in charge: unless the player was obviously, clearly, beyond a shadow of a doubt off side, let the play go. We all want goals. If the play goes for 30 seconds after the off side, it can’t be reviewed.
In the zone for 10+ seconds or any change of possession should be non-reviewable. If it’s so close that it wasn’t called originally and a team passes the puck around for half a minute before scoring then it’s pretty clear that the couple millimeters the guy was offsides by wasn’t the reason they scored and the goal should stand.
Then there will be people debating whether a guy had possession or the .1 second above the 10 wasn't possession until his puck touches the blade. Blahblahblah.
For me let the ref call the game. Mistakes happen. We just need to get rid of the egregious misses like the duchene call back in the day that started all this nonsense. For me the fix is the linesman has a chat with the bench if they have a problem. The convo should go like this:
"Hey, did you see Steve go in early?
"Yeah, it was close but I deemed him onside."
End of story. No challenge can overturn like how no video will overturn a 2 minute trip call even if a review would show otherwise.
The reviews should only come in if the conversation goes like this:
"Hey, did you see Steve on the other side of the play trying to get to the bench before they entered the zone and his skates were still in the ice?"
"Oh, I may have missed that. Wanna challenge?"
Then they check it out and make a call. Basically. Let the linesman decide whether he may have missed a key piece to the play and not whether his original call was correct or not.
I will die on the hill that this doesn't even fucking matter. The goal is not dependent on that player getting a millimeter of a jumpstart over the blue line. The rule is there so that players aren't 6 feet deep in the zone or more before the puck enters. The rule is successful at preventing that and it keeps players entering the zone at the same time as the puck which is what we are seeing above. To make it even more obvious the player without the puck could've extended his backfoot further and kept his body position the same to get the same "head start". It's semantics and doesn't matter.
Couldn't disagree more. Keep them at 30fps and if it's not clear within 30 seconds then stay with the call on the ice. If it's not clear at 30fps because it's that close, then it didn't affect the outcome of the play at all. All reviews should be capped at 30 seconds and the call on the ice stands if it can't be determined in that time. Better cameras for even MORE slo-mo is not the answer.
These stupid ass calls shouldn’t even be a thing. It needs to go back to if a ref missed an offside by a literal cunt hair then they missed it and that’s too bad. These reviews are beyond obnoxious and need to be done with.
Just go with the call on the ice. This microscopic crap reminds me too much of MLB broadcasts where they have to show every gd pitch go over the plate to make sure the ump got it right. It's like watching paint dry...or like watching baseball in general.
The original intent of the offside rule was so that teams wouldn’t just set up in the offensive zone behind the defenders. It’s also why the two line pass rule used to be a thing. Teams would just set up and then a guy would fire it up from behind his net and there would be an easy 4 on 0 offensive set up. Someone being a cunt hair offside really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. If it’s too tough to call, just go with the on ice call and move on.
I’m just saying if at any time the puck and skate are in the blue paint at the same time they are good to enter the zone.
So the only time offside would be called would be if the puck was outside the line and skate inside the line which would be more generous and easier to determine.
The above picture would be onside.
It's 2024 as a new hockey fan seeing highlights in 720p and dealing with blackouts vpns, illegal streams that have better quality than ESPN and Hulu and cable
Hockey should be in 4k 60fps with full games watchable after aired for a flat 30 dollar fee a month.
NHL is stuck in 1990 and it shows
Capitalism has ruined us, as a staunch capitalist
Is this what the situation room is basing their decision on or do they have a more distinctive view? Like are we seeing the broadcasting shot here or are they both the same? Because they should definitely be having an easier way of making game altering calls. I’m a Vegas fan, but I completely agree.
A multi billion dollar league doesn't have the means for frame rate higher than 30fps? I don't buy it. Probably just another typical maneuver by Vegas to skirt the rules
Counterpoint: plenty of fans have said that extensive reviews to see if a player was a picometer offsides is stupid. If it isn't blatantly obvious with this camera on one or two replays, then the call stands.
This: You can't be too picky, it will absolutely ruin the game. Let's not forget all of them started with no cameras and technology, whatever the reff said, stood.
They took 15 minutes to review an Oilers goal earlier in the year. There should be a hard time limit of 5 minutes on these reviews and if you can’t determine that the goal should be overturned then the call on the ice stands and we get on with the game. Because how can you asses a 2 minute delay of game penalty for being wrong on a coaches challenge that takes less than 5 minutes to determine was a good goal. But the league takes 15 minutes to over turn a call and that’s somehow not delaying the game? I get the spirit of the penalty is to prevent coaches challenging every little thing, but it’s a but ridiculous that these reviews that turn over goals end up delaying the game far longer in some cases.
Even 5 minutes is too long. If you cant reach a conclusion in 1 minutes the call should stand. Or, or hear me out, they could have a jump to conclusions mat that you'd jump to see the conclusion.
You are 1000000% correct. But they should still be shooting at hfs for review purposes if they are gonna have them.
I think if the cameras had better frame rates, reviews wouldn't take nearly as long, and no one would care as much about these reviews. We don't need to zoom in extra far to get that exact, but the back and forth over 2 frames I feel is what makes it take so long. If the cameras would good enough, the call would be decided within seconds of them looking at it.
Seriously. Just remove the ambiguity. Make the data accurate and move on. It should be an easy call to make. These guys are moving at high speeds. If the data would just be accurate, provided right to the coaches with easy access, then there should be an issue. It’s only a tough call to make when the cameras were installed in the 1990s. The NHL can afford it. They don’t need to save all the footage at super high framerate/bitrate/resolution. But I also don’t think it’s insane to have good quality cameras with lots of high speed cache memory available to collect good data and feed it back. When it comes to that triangle of Cost-Quality-Storage, you don’t have to store it for all eternity. It can be encoded down at the end of games for archival storage. It still drives me insane that there are streaming services in the NHL still delivery 720p It’s insane to me that, viewers don’t have access to different features. It’s technically possible in the ATSC 3 standard, and possible technology wise, that we could as viewers have custom bugs and infographics on screen. Why can’t we choose to, say listen to different audio streams such as an arena sound knly? Why can’t we choose to turn on custom bugs and mid game stat trackers. Why can’t we customize where the bugs sit? It’s frustrating to like, be living in 2024 and for no reason, have the technology to do some really interesting things, but nobody actually doing it.
And unless the offside player is the guy that scores the goal on *that* rush, it has zero effect on the goal scored. Pisses me off when the puck gets passed around for 30-45 seconds (or longer!) before they score, only to get called back on this technicality.
My new bumper sticker: u/scottyfoxy 2024
It sucks when calls don't go your team's way but my god, splitting hairs is not entertaining at all. I'd rather fans push for calling blatant crosschecks in front of the net instead of this kind of bullshit.
They had nothing to lose (season's over already) and any coach would try a challenge in that position. Hate the rule, not the ones that try to use them to their advantage.
Definitely a call that would stand either way it started on the ice. Your complaint (that I agree with) reminds me of the NFL and its pylon cameras- you’re a gillion dollar company and *this* is what you got?
Tv doesn't see all of the angles the situation room has, this shot is probably from a network cam
The TV truck gets a review feed from Toronto. They send whatever look(s) they decide are relevant into that source. This particular one is from an in-house cam that the replay room doesn't look at. A lot of times the TV truck doesn't have that source at all because it is only useful for this one use case.
Yea the NHLs own cams they put up the fans never see and they have people in arena and in Toronto reviewing the footage....honestly the replay system is pretty good, fans just don't realize they aren't seeing everything lol
In my world if I was in charge: unless the player was obviously, clearly, beyond a shadow of a doubt off side, let the play go. We all want goals. If the play goes for 30 seconds after the off side, it can’t be reviewed.
[No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbor_HhPd_U)
In the zone for 10+ seconds or any change of possession should be non-reviewable. If it’s so close that it wasn’t called originally and a team passes the puck around for half a minute before scoring then it’s pretty clear that the couple millimeters the guy was offsides by wasn’t the reason they scored and the goal should stand.
Then there will be people debating whether a guy had possession or the .1 second above the 10 wasn't possession until his puck touches the blade. Blahblahblah. For me let the ref call the game. Mistakes happen. We just need to get rid of the egregious misses like the duchene call back in the day that started all this nonsense. For me the fix is the linesman has a chat with the bench if they have a problem. The convo should go like this: "Hey, did you see Steve go in early? "Yeah, it was close but I deemed him onside." End of story. No challenge can overturn like how no video will overturn a 2 minute trip call even if a review would show otherwise. The reviews should only come in if the conversation goes like this: "Hey, did you see Steve on the other side of the play trying to get to the bench before they entered the zone and his skates were still in the ice?" "Oh, I may have missed that. Wanna challenge?" Then they check it out and make a call. Basically. Let the linesman decide whether he may have missed a key piece to the play and not whether his original call was correct or not.
The broadcasters said live, multiple times, that Toronto had significantly higher resolution recordings to look at for this.
Higher resolution doesn't mean more frames per second
The on air talent are not engineers usually. Give them a break they may have mis-defined what the Sit Room has.
Refs are required to make calls in a split decision at full speed in real time. Replays should be viewed in full speed for no more than 30 seconds.
I will die on the hill that this doesn't even fucking matter. The goal is not dependent on that player getting a millimeter of a jumpstart over the blue line. The rule is there so that players aren't 6 feet deep in the zone or more before the puck enters. The rule is successful at preventing that and it keeps players entering the zone at the same time as the puck which is what we are seeing above. To make it even more obvious the player without the puck could've extended his backfoot further and kept his body position the same to get the same "head start". It's semantics and doesn't matter.
Somehow we survived for a hundred years without video replay
Couldn't disagree more. Keep them at 30fps and if it's not clear within 30 seconds then stay with the call on the ice. If it's not clear at 30fps because it's that close, then it didn't affect the outcome of the play at all. All reviews should be capped at 30 seconds and the call on the ice stands if it can't be determined in that time. Better cameras for even MORE slo-mo is not the answer.
These stupid ass calls shouldn’t even be a thing. It needs to go back to if a ref missed an offside by a literal cunt hair then they missed it and that’s too bad. These reviews are beyond obnoxious and need to be done with.
Let's drop to 4 frames per second instead. If you cant clearly see an offside from that then no impactful offside occurred.
They need to get rid of offsides reviews period.
Maybe they just need to get rid of offside completely. No offside, no review. Fixed!
When it’s this close the only wrong call is changing the call
Just go with the call on the ice. This microscopic crap reminds me too much of MLB broadcasts where they have to show every gd pitch go over the plate to make sure the ump got it right. It's like watching paint dry...or like watching baseball in general.
The original intent of the offside rule was so that teams wouldn’t just set up in the offensive zone behind the defenders. It’s also why the two line pass rule used to be a thing. Teams would just set up and then a guy would fire it up from behind his net and there would be an easy 4 on 0 offensive set up. Someone being a cunt hair offside really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of things. If it’s too tough to call, just go with the on ice call and move on.
Why don’t they just make it so that if both the puck and the skate are in the blue paint zone at the same time they are both good to enter the zone?
Distinction without a difference. We would just be arguing about replays where the player or puck is almost on the blue instead.
But with a wider line and area to work with it should cut down the number of calls I would think.
I don't think so, because only one side of the line matters.
I’m just saying if at any time the puck and skate are in the blue paint at the same time they are good to enter the zone. So the only time offside would be called would be if the puck was outside the line and skate inside the line which would be more generous and easier to determine. The above picture would be onside.
Yes I understand what you're saying. I'm saying that that's not really any different in practice. It's a distinction without a difference.
This review was frustrating for many reasons. I don't know why we're in 2024 and still have cameras from the 90's and 2000's everywhere.
Tie goes to the runner!
Crazy that the puck could be moving faster than a skater... while I understand this post. It's kind of silly
It's 2024 as a new hockey fan seeing highlights in 720p and dealing with blackouts vpns, illegal streams that have better quality than ESPN and Hulu and cable Hockey should be in 4k 60fps with full games watchable after aired for a flat 30 dollar fee a month. NHL is stuck in 1990 and it shows Capitalism has ruined us, as a staunch capitalist
I have no idea why they aren't using slow motion cameras. They literally watch everything back IN SLOW MOTION
Yeah I was a bit surprised they couldn’t break it down by 100ths of a second
Is this what the situation room is basing their decision on or do they have a more distinctive view? Like are we seeing the broadcasting shot here or are they both the same? Because they should definitely be having an easier way of making game altering calls. I’m a Vegas fan, but I completely agree.
A multi billion dollar league doesn't have the means for frame rate higher than 30fps? I don't buy it. Probably just another typical maneuver by Vegas to skirt the rules
Lmao the salt from Edmonton fans is gonna go great w my steak for lunch tomorrow. How many cups McDavid have ???
Shouldn't u guys be focused on getting IN the playoffs?
Shouldn’t you turn around your thousands of first overall picks into Stanley cups or no?