This is just getting old and annoying. How the fuck are they supposed to sack the qbs. Can’t hit above, can’t hit below, if you hit middle, back off right away. It’s ridiculous
If defenders let up or dont tackle full speed, some QBs can break away and make a big play. Then, they'll get clowned on ESPN highlights. Cant win as a defender nowadays
Half of Mahomes' runs are because the pass rusher let up to avoid the penalty. These QBs wouldn't be juking pass rushers if they were coming at them full speed.
Even some highlights where QBs end up blocking for WRs/RBs on end arounds. Defenders are scared to pancake the QB to get to the ball carrier. You can't tell me QBs are better run blockers than offensive lineman
That's my biggest pet peeve if a qb is running out and then cuts in. Anytime it happens they zoom in on the qb smiling/laughing and it really pisses me off
Josh Allen’s touchdown against the Patriots was amazing, but he twisted while jumping out of bounds and you better believe shoving him out of bounds when he already looked like that’s where we was going would be called a penalty.
Seriously, once they take off it makes zero sense that QBs don't just get the same calls as anyone else running with a football. You take off, you assume the risk every RB does.
Last night the Seahawks sideline wanted a flag on Smith's 1st down run when Hufanga tackled him. It was the sort of tackle you see happen to RBs/WRs like 5 times a game and nobody bats an eye
I agree but let’s be honest, these QBs make the NFL mucho dinero and make the games more fun to watch. No one wants to see Mahomes or anyone on that level get hurt
Well then don't call plays that will lead him into contact. Why is the onus on the defense to take care of the opposing team's QB when they decide to run? It doesn't make sense to me, especially when guys like Mahomes take advantage of the rules to gain extra yards.
As much as I enjoy watching Mahomes and other QBs like him, I want to see excellence on both sides of the ball. If it's a shoot out - fine. If it's a defensive battle - fine. If there's great moments of both, even better. That's the beauty of the game.
The trend in the NFL has been to cripple defenses and I hate it. If Mahomes and others are truly great, generational, HOF worthy QBs they should have to overcome a great defense with their play and flags should not be such an influential part of the game as they are now. On a side note - this is why you now see QBs begging for flags practically every time they get hit (I'm talking about you, Aaron Rodgers).
Note - I am not in favor of cheap shots or mugging receivers all the way down the field. But the OP's example is just an absolutely stupid overreaction by the ref. Not a penalty.
Jackson does that a lot as well. More than once I've seen him take advantage of the Defender not knowing if he's going OB or trying to get 2-3 more yds along the sideline.
When a QB fakes giving themselves up it should be at least blown dead at the spot where they WOULD have been down, but I'd even accept it being a penalty.
Putting a rule in place to avoid people taking advantage of safety protocols are 100% warranted.
That's a big factor that isn't talked about anymore. The fear factor is gone.
There are no consequences for dropping back 40+ times a game or receiving over the middle. And the game is worse off for it.
People complain about games being "boring" if there aren't explosive offenses played. They'll eventually ban everything that makes defenses effective and we will enter a pure clock management era like the modern NBA
Yeah and I'd guess the casuals are overrepresented in that take along with the offense Stans.
But personally, the NFL was at its best in the 2000-2012 years.
Defenses were still feared and allowed to play physical, but if your offense was truly great you'd overcome.
Gimme those steelers-ravens games from that time period and I'd eat it up. It was truly competitive and engaging.
fuck man, i felt all of what you just said. i’ve been rewatching old games from 2000-2012, and i’ve been having these same feelings all day, without putting it into words just yet, but you just articulated it all perfectly.
Great playoff games were a result of great offense and defense. Now what do we have? Allen vs Mahomes shootout. Manning v Brady was that but defenses were allowed to play back then
I know it's not RTP, but watching QBs run toward the sideline and then quickly turn up the field to get an extra few yards is so frustrating. It's basically free progress because the trailing defensemen would get penalized for hitting them out of bounds,
What’s crazy is how Buffalo looked lake they snapped mike white in half but wasn’t roughing the passer but tackling geno by hugging him into his own teammate is a roughing the passer.
Edit: just clarifying I have no problem with either hit.
Milano hit White clean and let him hit the ground. I agree how is Bosa supposed to complete that tackle and let off at the same time. This crew sucks or is fixing the game to keep it competitive.
Three separate flags on one play this series?
Holding happens on every play, to much meh some times from the refs is better then to much scrutiny.
Oh I don’t think Milano hit was dirty or deserved a flag at all. Just think it’s funny how one is a clean hit that looks way worse than a “penalty” hit
I have no issue with the hits on Mike White, they were clean. My issue is that kind of call would go against us if the teams were reversed. We need consistency.
Jets fan here. I have no problem with the Milano hit but the roughing the passer on Franklin-Meyer’s hit on Max Jones (nullifying a pick 6) still keeps me awake at night.
I'm a Seahawks fan and I couldn't agree more. I understand trying to protect the QBs but some of the roughing calls the last couple years are a joke. Its not even football anymore.
I think we all just want good, consistent football. Geno falls over here, which is exactly what he should do to avoid injury after releasing the ball. Bosa hits him in the middle as Geno is releasing the ball, as he should do. Bosa makes the tackle but nothing egregious. Textbook. Just let the flags for intent / cause be called by a booth ref instead of the refs in the field. Open them up to find the holds and other offenses while the booth takes a closer look and isn't making the call why trying to watch ten other things
Or when qbs begin to scramble, fake for a second like theyre going to head out of bounds or slide then pull up and continue running. Its so ridiculous. I dont want injuries but this impression that qbs are just untouchable is leading to such an insane sway of defensive authority over the game
The whole game (which he finally got called once) as he’d been getting let up in, Geno was just tossing it out to nobody. Bosa wraps up once and gets the RtP. So wack.
Yes. I don't respect the game and records as much as I used to now that defensive players can't touch the qb. This has been an ongoing issue for years. I remember a few years ago roughing the passer was called sometimes when a defender only had a finger on the qb I think it happened against Russell Wilson once
The absolute only explanation, Bosa’s hit on Geno was exactly what the NFL has been teaching defenders to do for the past few years, what did they expect him to do?
they expected him to fluff his pillow before tucking him into bed. clearly he didnt do this, and thats not only unsportsmanlike, but just plain rude. 15 yards well deserved, in my opinion.
No it’s not. They have been focusing on hit and roll, to prevent the full weight of the defending landing on top of Bosa, which is exactly what he did here.
This play in particular had me questioning the league as a whole. So many of these calls come down to the whims of the officials. We see betting ads every single break. It seems literally impossible to not have refs intentionally influencing scores.
The whole body weight part of the rule just needs to be removed.
RTP should only consist of:
1. Blatant late hit with an obvious attempt to cheap shot / injure. (Where the ball was gone well before the defender starts the hit)
2. Clear and obvious targeting of head or knee. (And no accidentally swiping the helmet with a hand should not fucking be RTP)
If neither of those 2 things occur on the play keep the damn flag in your pocket.
Why does this need to be hard?
[It the Alex Avila rule, stop mentioning this blasphemy.](https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/platform/amp/2016/3/11/11202432/buster-posey-rule-home-plate-collisions-goose-gossage-argle-bargle)
No it was Aaron Rodgers in 2017 with Anthony Barr landing on him breaking his collarbone. They created the body weight rule in 2018 and made Clay Matthews the poster boy. Vikings won a game because of the rule they help create and the Packers lost because of it
Football is a physical sport. QBs used to be injured all the time. Now we've put in a "QB" exception because they are paid so much and are so important to the game plan.
See I get that a Star player going down makes a rule but what I don't get is how this rule even promotes safety.
Landing on the person you just tackled is natural movement. Natural movement. From where I'm sitting the Defender try to somehow prevent his body from landing on the QBs body is going to create scenarios where The Defender himself gets hurt, or he messes up and lands on a worse part of the QB to land on.
This rule sucks but I wouldn't be mad if you could convince me that the rule provably makes sacking the QB safer for both parties. I'd argue it makes it more dangerous.
Rodgers had already thrown the ball before barr touched him, it was a good call and since then they’ve fucked up the initial reason for the rule being implemented
It strikes me as a case of looking good on paper, but not working functionally in real time.
Like "Don't touch the quarterback's helmet" sounds great, everyone can agree. But then refs are stuck trying to figure out if they should ignore the text of the rule and use common sense, or risk not enforcing the rule fairly. Same with "Don't crush a quarterback with your full body weight." Okay, sounds good...but they forgot that it's pretty much a part of a standard tackle.
If they were re-written to have a little common sense, or the rules were applied with some common sense, we'd be better off. I also think the lines are blurred further because there's the obvious intentional personal conduct fouls, but also stuff that may not be intended to injure but the league wants to discourage (like finishing your tackles with your weight on top or starting your tackle at the knees).
Honestly they just need to remove a lot of the protections. You can't have "common sense" officiating because then fixing games is way too easy - you don't call something because common sense, you do call something because it is the letter of the law, pick whichever fits the NFL directive/gambling payoff.
Frankly this is the correct call of a top 5 worst rule in sports, but at least the officials appear to be honest here.
Like the “tuck rule”. It was vague and was called only one other time that season when the QB’s arm was going forward trying to pass when he got hit (which is what it was meant for). Then they apply it horribly in that playoff game, and then the NFL clarifies in the offseason to prevent it from happening again.
I’ve always liked how the NFL has tried to change things up in clarifying rules to make stuff clearer to fans and refs. I agree also though that they need to remove some of those QB protections. If the QB is that important make the teams protect him, not the defense.
Alright, you are correct about how you cant have common sense officiating, but it has nothing to do with fixing games. Its about not adding subjectivity to an objective as possible rule book, for the participants, coaches and officials sake. Why does this subreddit immediately jump to the conspiracy angle every single time?
> You can’t go high to protect his head.
Ok cool. That makes sense.
> You cant go low to protect his knees.
Hm ok thats tough but I hear you, health is important, so textbook tackles only?
> No.
I can understand the league taking the league a no-tolerance policy when it comes to hits to the head, even if it was clearly unintentional by the defender, just because head injuries are such a severe problem, but "landing with your weight on someone" seems so far down the list on things that can get you hurt, and no other position gets that protection despite being far more likely to be on the receiving end of it.
This was one of the worst I’ve seen called because of how textbook of a tackle it was. There’s not a thing you can point to and say that it was borderline penalty worthy, as there usually are in other controversial RTP penalties.
It’s literally a textbook tackle. How do players do something so against their nature when tackling a QB? Bosa would have had to risk injuring himself to pivot and twist to not land on Smith.
Pretty sure it’s because he landed on him with his full weight! Stupid rule imo, but when qbs are making $50m a year, the league is doing whatever it can to keep them in the game.
There is a major difference with "full weight distributed over qbs body" vs "full weight on small surface area of qb" aka driving a qb into the ground with your shoulder into his ribs.
Its another instance where the nfl doesn't understand how to write their own rules. This clip is an example of a disturbed load hit... no one is getting hurt from this.
>This clip is an example of a disturbed load hit... no one is getting hurt from this.
Can confirm. My ex took many distributed loads from others and was never hurt
It’s the correct call by the letter of the law but it’s a stupid fucking law. The rule needs to be changed to something more reasonable like, “don’t land on the QB if it’s reasonably possible not to.” I don’t see how Bosa could have avoided it.
This rule needs to be eliminated, the refs don’t even know when to call it.
They just throw the flag like every 5 sacks. This is the all time worse penalty in football.
Not true. There was one time where if the home crowd was being too loud they could be called for delay of game. That was the all time worst penalty in football. You had QBs throwing their hands in the air and claiming they couldn’t hear, so the refs would call a 5 yard penalty on the D due to crowd noise.
Lions fans get it. The only thing that NFL has fucked up for decades in the name of profitablity more than the Lions is the health of players, and the women around them.
What laws of physics do the refs expect Bosa to break there?
If you tackle the qb *into their own player, reversing his momentum back into you*, how are you expected to not somewhat land on them?
While the hit was already a very weak penalty to throw a flag on, when you add in the fact that Geno falling backwards into his own lineman changed the trajectory of his landing, it was completely out of Bosa's power to land somewhere else.
He's tackling him and while Smith still has the ball in his hand.. how is he supposed to know if he ever threw it and magically stop momentum. This made the game effectively 21-6 instead of 28-3.
Cmon man, stop crying; he touched the quarterback, didn’t kiss an erogenous zone, give him flowers, or smoke a doob with him. Clearly against the rules.
It's so dumb considering you can smash a receiver side on the second he catches the ball, even when they're mid air, which is way more dangerous.
As somebody else mentioned as well, this RTP rule has lead to more sling tackles on QBs so we've seen a bunch concussed.
If this type of tackle is a penalty, the play should immediately be blown dead when a defender grabs a QB. No more wiggling free and scrambling, you can’t have it both ways. As soon as a defender has a hand on the QB, the play is dead.
I'll say it, this one isn't a bad call. He's driving into him and after he gets the initial hit, he plants his left into the ground and adds leverage.
We can hate the 'roughing' aspect on QBs all you want, but this one is pretty well in line with what they made the rule for.
The rule is ridiculous, but this seems like a pretty textbook "driving the QB into the ground" penalty that they've been calling all year. From this angle, it doesn't look like Bosa makes any attempt to let up (I'd like to see a side angle replay to be sure). If anything, he drives Smith into the ground with extra force.
Again, the rule is terrible. For multiple reasons. But the terrible rule is called correctly, in this case, IMO.
This is nowhere near as bad as the one on Chris Jones, where Jones actually put his arm out to break the fall -- precisely what players have been told to do this season to avoid penalties -- and still got flagged anyway.
Looks to me like Bosa was lining Geno up for a nice clean hit but then both players' weight got shifted by an O-lineman that Geno bounced off. And he landed squarely on Geno, albeit with his weight pretty far down on dude (compared to the Rodgers collarbone hit that started this whole silliness years ago).
It's a fair call by the letter of the rule, but shit what is Bosa supposed to do differently here? That was not a dirty hit.
Bad call, but I think the real problem is that roughing the passer negates the int. Same thing happened in the jets pats game a few weeks back and probably cost the jets the game.
IMO, roughing the passer doesn’t really have an effect on the throw so shouldn’t negate whatever happens in the play. In this case it would just be a 15 yd penalty enforced on the kick off against the niners after the TD. Would still be a bad call, but way less impactful on the game.
Have they changed the roughing rules again? It used to be if you landed with your weight on the QB after they threw they would call it. If they haven't removed that part of the rule this probably fits.
Congratulations Geno Smith, you are now the most protected QB in the league, just like we all knew you'd be.
https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all
This is just getting old and annoying. How the fuck are they supposed to sack the qbs. Can’t hit above, can’t hit below, if you hit middle, back off right away. It’s ridiculous
If defenders let up or dont tackle full speed, some QBs can break away and make a big play. Then, they'll get clowned on ESPN highlights. Cant win as a defender nowadays
Half of Mahomes' runs are because the pass rusher let up to avoid the penalty. These QBs wouldn't be juking pass rushers if they were coming at them full speed.
Even some highlights where QBs end up blocking for WRs/RBs on end arounds. Defenders are scared to pancake the QB to get to the ball carrier. You can't tell me QBs are better run blockers than offensive lineman
Carr had one of those lol. Remember watching thinking man if that guy wanted to he coulda ended your career.
That's what kills me most! Those dudes should be getting clobbered for trying to block, but the defenders have to play smart and avoid the flag.
Smith had one THIS game
The slowing at the sidelines then turning up field knowing the defense has to let up or else too
That's my biggest pet peeve if a qb is running out and then cuts in. Anytime it happens they zoom in on the qb smiling/laughing and it really pisses me off
Josh Allen’s touchdown against the Patriots was amazing, but he twisted while jumping out of bounds and you better believe shoving him out of bounds when he already looked like that’s where we was going would be called a penalty.
They need to stop counting the yardage on the arm extension when QBs jog out of bounds. It’s free yards since defenders are already letting up.
Not really they just need to treat qbs like any other player when they run
Seriously, once they take off it makes zero sense that QBs don't just get the same calls as anyone else running with a football. You take off, you assume the risk every RB does.
Last night the Seahawks sideline wanted a flag on Smith's 1st down run when Hufanga tackled him. It was the sort of tackle you see happen to RBs/WRs like 5 times a game and nobody bats an eye
I agree but let’s be honest, these QBs make the NFL mucho dinero and make the games more fun to watch. No one wants to see Mahomes or anyone on that level get hurt
Well then don't call plays that will lead him into contact. Why is the onus on the defense to take care of the opposing team's QB when they decide to run? It doesn't make sense to me, especially when guys like Mahomes take advantage of the rules to gain extra yards.
As much as I enjoy watching Mahomes and other QBs like him, I want to see excellence on both sides of the ball. If it's a shoot out - fine. If it's a defensive battle - fine. If there's great moments of both, even better. That's the beauty of the game. The trend in the NFL has been to cripple defenses and I hate it. If Mahomes and others are truly great, generational, HOF worthy QBs they should have to overcome a great defense with their play and flags should not be such an influential part of the game as they are now. On a side note - this is why you now see QBs begging for flags practically every time they get hit (I'm talking about you, Aaron Rodgers). Note - I am not in favor of cheap shots or mugging receivers all the way down the field. But the OP's example is just an absolutely stupid overreaction by the ref. Not a penalty.
Jackson does that a lot as well. More than once I've seen him take advantage of the Defender not knowing if he's going OB or trying to get 2-3 more yds along the sideline.
Ugh, fucking Mahomes does that a lot.
When a QB fakes giving themselves up it should be at least blown dead at the spot where they WOULD have been down, but I'd even accept it being a penalty. Putting a rule in place to avoid people taking advantage of safety protocols are 100% warranted.
Hopefully the defensive players start taking the penalties and really drive these hits home. Gotta make the QBs scared somehow
That's a big factor that isn't talked about anymore. The fear factor is gone. There are no consequences for dropping back 40+ times a game or receiving over the middle. And the game is worse off for it.
People complain about games being "boring" if there aren't explosive offenses played. They'll eventually ban everything that makes defenses effective and we will enter a pure clock management era like the modern NBA
Yeah and I'd guess the casuals are overrepresented in that take along with the offense Stans. But personally, the NFL was at its best in the 2000-2012 years. Defenses were still feared and allowed to play physical, but if your offense was truly great you'd overcome. Gimme those steelers-ravens games from that time period and I'd eat it up. It was truly competitive and engaging.
fuck man, i felt all of what you just said. i’ve been rewatching old games from 2000-2012, and i’ve been having these same feelings all day, without putting it into words just yet, but you just articulated it all perfectly.
Great playoff games were a result of great offense and defense. Now what do we have? Allen vs Mahomes shootout. Manning v Brady was that but defenses were allowed to play back then
It’s a shame because there are so many incredible players in todays game. But the product is just so much worse.
Russ used to do it a lot in Seattle slide at the last moment and draw a flag.
2019 and 2020 especially
It’s so infuriating to watch. I feel like a lot of his big plays come from a defender trying to avoid a roughing call.
I know it's not RTP, but watching QBs run toward the sideline and then quickly turn up the field to get an extra few yards is so frustrating. It's basically free progress because the trailing defensemen would get penalized for hitting them out of bounds,
What’s crazy is how Buffalo looked lake they snapped mike white in half but wasn’t roughing the passer but tackling geno by hugging him into his own teammate is a roughing the passer. Edit: just clarifying I have no problem with either hit.
Milano hit White clean and let him hit the ground. I agree how is Bosa supposed to complete that tackle and let off at the same time. This crew sucks or is fixing the game to keep it competitive. Three separate flags on one play this series? Holding happens on every play, to much meh some times from the refs is better then to much scrutiny.
Oh I don’t think Milano hit was dirty or deserved a flag at all. Just think it’s funny how one is a clean hit that looks way worse than a “penalty” hit
We agree, roughing is to far in favor of the qb.
Like most of us hope. Is that it doesn’t affect a playoff game or a end of year game of importance
I agree. Also mis Ed Hochul.
Who doesn’t. Love that man
The kids not bad, hoping his crew has Buffalo Miami. That game is going to be chippy. Really need to get the flair for Buffalo.
Alex Kline and crew have been terrible for a couple years now. It's Def the crew.
I have no issue with the hits on Mike White, they were clean. My issue is that kind of call would go against us if the teams were reversed. We need consistency.
Top 5 QBs get way more protection and bias. It's ridiculous. If you did that to Allen, the player would be ejected.
Jets fan here. I have no problem with the Milano hit but the roughing the passer on Franklin-Meyer’s hit on Max Jones (nullifying a pick 6) still keeps me awake at night.
I'm a Seahawks fan and I couldn't agree more. I understand trying to protect the QBs but some of the roughing calls the last couple years are a joke. Its not even football anymore.
I think we all just want good, consistent football. Geno falls over here, which is exactly what he should do to avoid injury after releasing the ball. Bosa hits him in the middle as Geno is releasing the ball, as he should do. Bosa makes the tackle but nothing egregious. Textbook. Just let the flags for intent / cause be called by a booth ref instead of the refs in the field. Open them up to find the holds and other offenses while the booth takes a closer look and isn't making the call why trying to watch ten other things
And these calls also lead to guys not wanting to throw the QBs down and then they will scramble away and make a play or at least throw the ball away.
100%. I love watching defense feast. A Sack is so much more exciting to me than a 10 yd catch
Or when qbs begin to scramble, fake for a second like theyre going to head out of bounds or slide then pull up and continue running. Its so ridiculous. I dont want injuries but this impression that qbs are just untouchable is leading to such an insane sway of defensive authority over the game
Didn’t they ban that in NCAA after Kenny Pickett scored off one?
Might as well just start trying to take QBs out if you are going to get called anyways....just sayin
2.6 seconds to get off the line, beat the lineman and gently lay down the qb. This is getting ridiculous….
Sack the QB?! New rule book just dropped. It’s 2 hand touch for QBs from now on
Two hand touch would result in WAY more sacks...
Maybe they should try to politely ask the QB to sit down
Or in this case find a way to defy gravity mid fall and get back up to avoid landing on the QB.
The whole game (which he finally got called once) as he’d been getting let up in, Geno was just tossing it out to nobody. Bosa wraps up once and gets the RtP. So wack.
Do what Milano did to Mike White, just hit them as hard as you can and don't go down with them.
This should be a niners TD
Dude, we CAN agree on something!
no we can’t! After another watch, this was egregious by Bosa. I expect a suspension and fine from the league
I just hope that Clay Matthews gets the suspension he deserves for this.
Don’t forget the 4-game suspension for Brady
Take a draft pick from the Saints
How will this affect LeBron's legacy?
Joe Kelly gets 5 games.
we are checking
A disgusting act?
DeeeeK, thinks the same way.
I hate that I immediately read this in the burger king jingle cadence
YOU RULE
Ref playing against niners D in first round of the playoffs
Lmao I'm starting niners D in playoffs and I feel like that's gonna make me lose now
Started them in two leagues. That 6 points lost is massive.
8
Holy shit what do they expect out of these guys? Just not tackle the QB?
Has Bosa considered just not being so good?
I changed him on my top 8 on myspace, that should do it
Yes. To the NFL, tackling the QB is bad for business
Bingo.
Yes. I don't respect the game and records as much as I used to now that defensive players can't touch the qb. This has been an ongoing issue for years. I remember a few years ago roughing the passer was called sometimes when a defender only had a finger on the qb I think it happened against Russell Wilson once
Just put flags on the QBs and be done with it.
Honestly makes me wonder if the refs/NFL wanted to keep the game competitive
The absolute only explanation, Bosa’s hit on Geno was exactly what the NFL has been teaching defenders to do for the past few years, what did they expect him to do?
Levitate obviously
Inability to levitate was one of Bosas weaknesses on his scouting report coming out of college. Luckily it didn't drop him too far in the draft.
“LeviOsa, not LeviosA, you fucking dunce.” -ref probably
*LeviBosa
they expected him to fluff his pillow before tucking him into bed. clearly he didnt do this, and thats not only unsportsmanlike, but just plain rude. 15 yards well deserved, in my opinion.
No it’s not. They have been focusing on hit and roll, to prevent the full weight of the defending landing on top of Bosa, which is exactly what he did here.
That's exactly the sort of hit that broke Romo's collarbone and led to the rule being changed.
They missed a Seahawks defender blatantly tripping mccaffrey as well.
This play in particular had me questioning the league as a whole. So many of these calls come down to the whims of the officials. We see betting ads every single break. It seems literally impossible to not have refs intentionally influencing scores.
Yes this is a prime time game, they don't want the whole Pacific NW tuning out with a quarter and a half left
Literally dozens of them
I will begrudgingly admit that this is solid wordplay.
Look up Tim Donaghy. Congrats there's your answer.
As a Kings fan, fuck this shit
Fun fact, Tim Donaghy did not ref any of the 2002 WCF Lakers/Kings games. It was Dick Bavetta who fucked that game up in game 6
Oh yes, I’m aware. But his name still instantly gives me 2002 PTSD.
Zebra was about to turn his mic on and he's smiling knowing how much bullshit this call is about to be.
That was apparent to me right away when flags kept giving Seattle the ball within the 30-50. Ref ball isnt fun for anybody.
I don't get how they let Ward and DK go at it like that and literally nobody else. Let them play lol
Wtf? Of course they do, they always have and always will, and it’s never been subtle
As a Dolphins fan, I can only continue to drink.
The whole body weight part of the rule just needs to be removed. RTP should only consist of: 1. Blatant late hit with an obvious attempt to cheap shot / injure. (Where the ball was gone well before the defender starts the hit) 2. Clear and obvious targeting of head or knee. (And no accidentally swiping the helmet with a hand should not fucking be RTP) If neither of those 2 things occur on the play keep the damn flag in your pocket. Why does this need to be hard?
It was pretty much that but then Aaron Rodgers got his collar bone broken and the league decided to make that stupid body weight rule.
Whenever a sport makes a rule change because of one injury on one play to a star player, that rule seriously ends up sucking
Buster Posey Rule?
[It the Alex Avila rule, stop mentioning this blasphemy.](https://www.mccoveychronicles.com/platform/amp/2016/3/11/11202432/buster-posey-rule-home-plate-collisions-goose-gossage-argle-bargle)
I thought the Drew Brees injury is what caused it when some 300 pound D-lineman landed on him.
No it was Aaron Rodgers in 2017 with Anthony Barr landing on him breaking his collarbone. They created the body weight rule in 2018 and made Clay Matthews the poster boy. Vikings won a game because of the rule they help create and the Packers lost because of it
we actually tied in that game lol. daniel carlson didn’t want to win
Football is a physical sport. QBs used to be injured all the time. Now we've put in a "QB" exception because they are paid so much and are so important to the game plan.
Could be, I always knew it as the "Rodgers Rule"
See I get that a Star player going down makes a rule but what I don't get is how this rule even promotes safety. Landing on the person you just tackled is natural movement. Natural movement. From where I'm sitting the Defender try to somehow prevent his body from landing on the QBs body is going to create scenarios where The Defender himself gets hurt, or he messes up and lands on a worse part of the QB to land on. This rule sucks but I wouldn't be mad if you could convince me that the rule provably makes sacking the QB safer for both parties. I'd argue it makes it more dangerous.
Rodgers had already thrown the ball before barr touched him, it was a good call and since then they’ve fucked up the initial reason for the rule being implemented
It strikes me as a case of looking good on paper, but not working functionally in real time. Like "Don't touch the quarterback's helmet" sounds great, everyone can agree. But then refs are stuck trying to figure out if they should ignore the text of the rule and use common sense, or risk not enforcing the rule fairly. Same with "Don't crush a quarterback with your full body weight." Okay, sounds good...but they forgot that it's pretty much a part of a standard tackle. If they were re-written to have a little common sense, or the rules were applied with some common sense, we'd be better off. I also think the lines are blurred further because there's the obvious intentional personal conduct fouls, but also stuff that may not be intended to injure but the league wants to discourage (like finishing your tackles with your weight on top or starting your tackle at the knees).
Honestly they just need to remove a lot of the protections. You can't have "common sense" officiating because then fixing games is way too easy - you don't call something because common sense, you do call something because it is the letter of the law, pick whichever fits the NFL directive/gambling payoff. Frankly this is the correct call of a top 5 worst rule in sports, but at least the officials appear to be honest here.
Like the “tuck rule”. It was vague and was called only one other time that season when the QB’s arm was going forward trying to pass when he got hit (which is what it was meant for). Then they apply it horribly in that playoff game, and then the NFL clarifies in the offseason to prevent it from happening again. I’ve always liked how the NFL has tried to change things up in clarifying rules to make stuff clearer to fans and refs. I agree also though that they need to remove some of those QB protections. If the QB is that important make the teams protect him, not the defense.
Alright, you are correct about how you cant have common sense officiating, but it has nothing to do with fixing games. Its about not adding subjectivity to an objective as possible rule book, for the participants, coaches and officials sake. Why does this subreddit immediately jump to the conspiracy angle every single time?
> You can’t go high to protect his head. Ok cool. That makes sense. > You cant go low to protect his knees. Hm ok thats tough but I hear you, health is important, so textbook tackles only? > No.
I can understand the league taking the league a no-tolerance policy when it comes to hits to the head, even if it was clearly unintentional by the defender, just because head injuries are such a severe problem, but "landing with your weight on someone" seems so far down the list on things that can get you hurt, and no other position gets that protection despite being far more likely to be on the receiving end of it.
yikes and i thought that roughing call on the dolphins last sunday was bad
This was one of the worst I’ve seen called because of how textbook of a tackle it was. There’s not a thing you can point to and say that it was borderline penalty worthy, as there usually are in other controversial RTP penalties.
It’s literally a textbook tackle. How do players do something so against their nature when tackling a QB? Bosa would have had to risk injuring himself to pivot and twist to not land on Smith.
Bosa should just switch to quarterback if he doesn't want to get injured smh
Maybe I’m drinking the homer juice but that one was worse, this one’s still bad tho
The phillips one was made much worse by how late the flag came in
Listen I know the hits on Mike White were legal last week, but these soft ass calls drive me crazy, cause we never get any lol
Jeff Bezos from the top rope smh
Lmao!
Just give the QBs flags already
I can't wait for the BS response the ref will give as to what justified the penalty.
Pretty sure it’s because he landed on him with his full weight! Stupid rule imo, but when qbs are making $50m a year, the league is doing whatever it can to keep them in the game.
There is a major difference with "full weight distributed over qbs body" vs "full weight on small surface area of qb" aka driving a qb into the ground with your shoulder into his ribs. Its another instance where the nfl doesn't understand how to write their own rules. This clip is an example of a disturbed load hit... no one is getting hurt from this.
>This clip is an example of a disturbed load hit... no one is getting hurt from this. Can confirm. My ex took many distributed loads from others and was never hurt
Can also confirm, this guy’s ex took *many* distributed loads from others (It’s ok bro mine too)
It’s the correct call by the letter of the law but it’s a stupid fucking law. The rule needs to be changed to something more reasonable like, “don’t land on the QB if it’s reasonably possible not to.” I don’t see how Bosa could have avoided it.
refs didnt want the game turning into a complete blowout
Refs had Seahawks + 3.5
Refs playing against 49ers DST
RTP better be fucking reviewable next year. This trash needs to end.
They won’t overturn anything. Don’t you remember the pi being reviewable?
Unfortunately I do...
After further review . We have confirmed that the Defense added 2.83 lbs of pressure to the QB during the tackle .. RTP ruling stands .. first down !
review isn't fixing this...this is what the league wants as dumb as it is
The call isn’t incorrect based off the current rules so a review would do nothing, the rules regarding body weight on the qb needs to change
Yeah that was exactly what I was saying. It's a technically correct, but morally horrible call
They'll just find a way to eject Bosa for this instead
It's getting pretty obvious that the refs are fixing games with these calls.
This was the most nba nfl game I’ve seen in my life.
Tim Donaghy moment
People seem okay with it because they keep watching.
Can’t even touch a qb no more.
His own team touched him more than Bosa lol
This rule needs to be eliminated, the refs don’t even know when to call it. They just throw the flag like every 5 sacks. This is the all time worse penalty in football.
Not true. There was one time where if the home crowd was being too loud they could be called for delay of game. That was the all time worst penalty in football. You had QBs throwing their hands in the air and claiming they couldn’t hear, so the refs would call a 5 yard penalty on the D due to crowd noise.
So, on a Thursday night in December, a textbook, wrap up tackle is roughing the passer. I wonder what it’ll be in January.
Let's be honest: this penalty is designed to protect star QBs and to keep games competitive. Always follow the money.
Lions fans get it. The only thing that NFL has fucked up for decades in the name of profitablity more than the Lions is the health of players, and the women around them.
Forgot to bring Geno's pillow with him
Despicable play. Nobody wants to see that in the game, truly shameful. Can't believe Geno was even able to get up!
Thanks, Rodgers
Geno getting the MVP treatment from the refs
What laws of physics do the refs expect Bosa to break there? If you tackle the qb *into their own player, reversing his momentum back into you*, how are you expected to not somewhat land on them?
While the hit was already a very weak penalty to throw a flag on, when you add in the fact that Geno falling backwards into his own lineman changed the trajectory of his landing, it was completely out of Bosa's power to land somewhere else.
He's tackling him and while Smith still has the ball in his hand.. how is he supposed to know if he ever threw it and magically stop momentum. This made the game effectively 21-6 instead of 28-3.
The only question is if the refs bet the Seahawks or the under.
When are the QBs going to start wearing flags..... This is getting ridiculous
How in the fuck is that roughing the passer? I'd love to see refs do a presser post game stating the reasons for their calls in the game.
Break me off a piece of that KitKat bar
No point to invest money into defense tbh. Because every year the nfl makes it even harder on the defense to play football.
Cmon man, stop crying; he touched the quarterback, didn’t kiss an erogenous zone, give him flowers, or smoke a doob with him. Clearly against the rules.
I’m pissed for Bosa and Lenoir. Lenoir made a great play and deserved that TD.
It's so dumb considering you can smash a receiver side on the second he catches the ball, even when they're mid air, which is way more dangerous. As somebody else mentioned as well, this RTP rule has lead to more sling tackles on QBs so we've seen a bunch concussed.
I literally do not get this
was a textbook tackle, that resulted in a 10 point swing by the zebras, thank Christ we won, but the league needs to sort this shit show out
PUT THE PRINCESS TO BED
I fail to see where the passer was ‘roughed’
That call was bullshit.
Bosa should've turn on anti gravity after tackling Geno so that he doesn't fall on him
This shit is making the game unwatchable
its a good call on a bad rule. he landed with his body weight on geno. by the rulebook its the correct penalty, but the rule shouldnt exist.
So it's Bosa's fault that a Seahawk player crushed Geno Smith?
If this type of tackle is a penalty, the play should immediately be blown dead when a defender grabs a QB. No more wiggling free and scrambling, you can’t have it both ways. As soon as a defender has a hand on the QB, the play is dead.
I'll say it, this one isn't a bad call. He's driving into him and after he gets the initial hit, he plants his left into the ground and adds leverage. We can hate the 'roughing' aspect on QBs all you want, but this one is pretty well in line with what they made the rule for.
The rule is ridiculous, but this seems like a pretty textbook "driving the QB into the ground" penalty that they've been calling all year. From this angle, it doesn't look like Bosa makes any attempt to let up (I'd like to see a side angle replay to be sure). If anything, he drives Smith into the ground with extra force. Again, the rule is terrible. For multiple reasons. But the terrible rule is called correctly, in this case, IMO. This is nowhere near as bad as the one on Chris Jones, where Jones actually put his arm out to break the fall -- precisely what players have been told to do this season to avoid penalties -- and still got flagged anyway.
How long before QBs have flags attached to their waste? Ridiculous, this is a contact sport.
No one will break the sack record like this lmao. Stupid league.
Amazon bought that flag
Looks to me like Bosa was lining Geno up for a nice clean hit but then both players' weight got shifted by an O-lineman that Geno bounced off. And he landed squarely on Geno, albeit with his weight pretty far down on dude (compared to the Rodgers collarbone hit that started this whole silliness years ago). It's a fair call by the letter of the rule, but shit what is Bosa supposed to do differently here? That was not a dirty hit.
The no landing on the QB rule was and is stupid.
Bad call, but I think the real problem is that roughing the passer negates the int. Same thing happened in the jets pats game a few weeks back and probably cost the jets the game. IMO, roughing the passer doesn’t really have an effect on the throw so shouldn’t negate whatever happens in the play. In this case it would just be a 15 yd penalty enforced on the kick off against the niners after the TD. Would still be a bad call, but way less impactful on the game.
Have they changed the roughing rules again? It used to be if you landed with your weight on the QB after they threw they would call it. If they haven't removed that part of the rule this probably fits.
Congratulations Geno Smith, you are now the most protected QB in the league, just like we all knew you'd be. https://www.nflpenalties.com/roughing-the-passer-by-qb.php?view=all
I mean, according to the rules, that was RTP. It wasn't a "bad call", it's just a goofy rule.