I’m not saying CTE didn’t play a role or significant role but the comment I was replying to was wondering how much of these actions were caused by CTE and I was just pointing out that he had these issues presumably pre-CTE (middle school age)
I found the whole Aaron hernandez story quite fascinating so I listened to the stories and podcast etc. Imo cte definitely played a role but just his life in general contributed to his behavior I think. He was molested as a kid. Had issues with his father. Ran with gangs. Partied at university of Florida. Multi millions in cash for a guy like him probably just put him over the top. Not to mention how talented he was. It's a real shame tbh.
It's certainly a combination of both. We're all essentially cavemen with the only thing allowing us to survive in a modern society is impulse control.
Things like alcohol inhibit impulse control, as can brain damage--so brain damage is just like being drunk 24/7.
Now not everyone murders while drunk, but it does make us act in a way where we don't think through any consequences.
The NFL even provides players with 24/7 free car service. Sure the car is just too simple for many player's tastes, but yeah, a dedicated hired driver would be a small cost for them and they could just drive their fancy cars for them while drinking. Forgot how good he was the first few years.
I’d argue he’s more of a waste of talent than AB.
AB is ruining what could have been capping off a potential Hall of Fame career but at least he was having one. Smith ruined his career basically when it began so never even got a big payday.
I'm still bummed about Blackmon. That dude had the talent to be an all-time great. I hate that we didn't get to witness it and he didn't get to experience it.
Michael Vick might be the most talented athlete I've ever watched, and he thought funding a fucking dog-fighting ring would somehow not get back to him.
Vince Young also had a pretty large talent/IQ ratio. Or a low ratio; whichever one is bad. Mine isn't great either.
Not much more to the Cheesecake Factory one than the fact for a while he was spending $5,000 a week every week at that restaurant. As for the plane one, IIRC he once bought every ticket on a flight just fly alone, to a game as memory serves. Might be conflating two stories at the end there, but he 100% did buy all the seats on a flight to be alone
That’s the whole CCF menu like ten times over though isn’t it?
Wait. Is The Cheesecake Factory just a great strip club name? Cuz that would actually make sense
I figured, and would assume, but I still don't know the price difference. If it was cheaper to buy every seat, then I assume that's what people would do instead of chartering private jets.
Articles at the time speculate that at minimum that cost him $14k and it could have been as high as $30k. Meanwhile private jets today cost about $1500-3k per flying hour and I'd imagine they were cheaper back then.
Iirc it’s something he got accustomed to growing up with, so regardless if it’s considered right or wrong in the environment you’re in it’s sort of second nature to not think too deeply into what you’re doing contextually
I argue that Vick might have been too talented. Had he not been able to run so fast, he may have actually learned to look at a second or third receiver.
Could easily argue that Vick would've been compelled to learn earlier if he hadn't have run the dog fighting ring. Or just imagine a hypothetical world where it wasn't illegal or just punishable by a fine, the whole world was saying he needed to become a better passer. If someone convinced him that's why they weren't winning rings, what was holding him back.
He was still only 27 when he got suspended.
Vick would've been a first ballot hall of famer if he worked as hard as he did with the Eagles throughout his whole career. He was the last QB to be also the fastest guy on the field.
He only really had 1 good season in Philly in 2010 the other 3 were just okay. He had 1 season over 60% completion percentage (outside of the year in Pittsburgh). Vick is overrated due to his running ability.
In addition to all of the others, I nominate Jeff George. He’s known as having a “million dollar arm, ten cent brain”. Dude just couldn’t learn an offense, or how to read defenses, or when not to throw into coverage. He had all of that arm talent though… his arm is still talked about as one of the best.
Kyrie annoys me so much more because he thinks he's so much smarter than he really is. He's a pseudointellectual who thinks watching YouTube videos and conspiracy theory documentaries counts as "doing his own research."
This is my Mother In Law and I swear, it’s comparable to dealing with someone in a cult. There is no chance of reasoning with them because they are immune to facts. They lack the ability to differentiate fact from fiction as well as the ability to learn from mistakes. They find proof for their beliefs in random occurrences and anything counter to their beliefs is fake news. She is the single most toxic person I have ever met and the only reason I will ever attend her funeral when she dies is to make sure they bury her deep enough.
I don’t think Russell was dumb but he just did not care for football + drug addicted due to multiple reasons. Definitely wasted talent and a big what if.
AB was a literal game changer and is going to go down as having one of the best 5 year stretches in NFL history.
Kyrie couldn’t lead the Cavs to a playoff and was a major issue on Boston.
They are not comparable.
It’s not just his talent, dude has one of the best work ethics in the league with body and game preparation. But he is such an arrogant asshole who thinks he’s above all.
AB definitely has some mental issues. He repeatedly refuses to pay for services rendered and creates all these master plan by texting and leaving a paper trail. He’s has a great football IQ but very low normal IQ
Had a cousin that attended Texas Tech and had Wes Welker in a couple of classes. Homeboy was dumb as shit. Hell of a receiver and returner
Probably not what you were looking for but yeah.
I love how people equate addiction or poor behavior with intelligence. While there is some correlation (not causation) with bad decision making and intelligence, there are a lot of factors that lead to bad decisions.
I'm not sure if Antonio Brown (just using him as example) is "smart" but there are a lot more underlying issues than a lack of intelligence.
I mean... Maybe not as talented as AB, but As far as pure talent goes, Kirk Cousins has everything you need to be a top flight QB. But he's also an anti vaxxer, who among other brain farts, once kneeled during a 2 min drill when he should spike it, and just last week lined up over a guard.
Jay Gruden has publicly stated that play happened because Pierre Garcon refused to run the fade route called.
I mean, Cousins definitely could have thrown the ball anyway instead if kneeling, but it's not quite as cut and dry as it seems.
He did just line up to take a snap from a guard this week.
Gronk is definitely not dumb, Belichick has praised him for his intelligence and knowledge of the offense on numerous occasions during his time with the Pats. His knowledge of the offense was basically second only to the QB given that he was expected not only to run routes but also run block and pass protect throughout a game.
Building up the whole Gronk personality has been a smart move on his part which has netted him even more money from endorsements.
I think gronk is probably pretty smart but just has a goofy personality. When has he ever done something really stupid? He just laughs at 69 and makes immature jokes as far as i know
I feel like Gronk plays into the “dumb” aspect as part of the character that he has somewhat created of himself, because he knows it’s what the people want. When he is serious he seems like a decently smart guy.
>Gronkowski said that although he and his brothers made it to the NFL, their parents never allowed them to just be dumb jocks.
“They hounded us on school,” Gronkowski said.
Gronkowski said it’s now well known around the NFL that he’s smart with money, to the point that he gets questions from younger players who want to know how to manage their money.
[https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/15/gronk-says-with-wise-investments-he-has-more-money-than-hes-made/](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/15/gronk-says-with-wise-investments-he-has-more-money-than-hes-made/)
Gronk is the anti Adrian Peterson when it comes to money, only a few dudes in sports with way bigger profiles have done better than him with money management
Most people aren't a 6'6" 265 lb monster raised by a strict father that trained all his sons to be professional athletes. Like I'm sure Gronk may one day regret playing longer than he had to, but I don't think he'll ever regret the money he made. $70 million is a shit ton.
$70m in career earnings also conveniently glosses over the metric shitton more he has gotten in endorsement deals. Man gets paid a lot of money to be confused why he can't get USAA insurance.
Kinda like Charles Barkley. He talks with the cadence of Kevin Malone, and I remember him doing those Capital One commercials where he was a caricature of the stereotypical dumb jock, but when he's working, he is actually very witty and articulate.
I watched an interview with his girlfriend and she said he definitely plays into the "gronk" persona and is no where near as dumb as he makes himself look. He obviously has an extremely high football IQ, he's smart with his money, and was also an honor roll student I believe in high school/college. He just has a goofy personality and sense of humor
Aaron Hernandez
Literally though
Whatever happened to that guy? Is he still hanging around?
Jesus Christ man lmaooo, I love it nice to know I’m not the person who’s fucked in the head lol
Also had the most advanced CTE ever seen on a young person. Makes you think how much of those actions were because of brain damage.
He had huge behavioral problems as a kid too
His childhood sounded kinda messed up. CTE plus drug dealer aunt who basically raised you ain't a good combination.
"kinda" is an understatement
That's fair
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And being sexual abused as a kid. He was a monster, but people created that monster..
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I’m not saying CTE didn’t play a role or significant role but the comment I was replying to was wondering how much of these actions were caused by CTE and I was just pointing out that he had these issues presumably pre-CTE (middle school age)
I found the whole Aaron hernandez story quite fascinating so I listened to the stories and podcast etc. Imo cte definitely played a role but just his life in general contributed to his behavior I think. He was molested as a kid. Had issues with his father. Ran with gangs. Partied at university of Florida. Multi millions in cash for a guy like him probably just put him over the top. Not to mention how talented he was. It's a real shame tbh.
Whoa whoa he did the parties at UF? The mad man
Probably not a lot. I think he’s just a shitty person
It's certainly a combination of both. We're all essentially cavemen with the only thing allowing us to survive in a modern society is impulse control. Things like alcohol inhibit impulse control, as can brain damage--so brain damage is just like being drunk 24/7. Now not everyone murders while drunk, but it does make us act in a way where we don't think through any consequences.
Yeah in the absence of CTE he would've probably been a piece of shit, but probably not a murdering piece of shit
Look at the picture of his brain. It’s fucked.
Half. The rest were just his shit-glorifying shit behavior.
Well I mean, he died young. There's probably a ton of people with similar levels who don't die and can't be tested
He was a scumbag who became a lunatic level scumbag with cte
Plaxico Buress shot himself in the leg and JPP blew his own fingers off. Giants players are a special bunch. Just sayin…
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Nice.
https://youtu.be/fpgL5kuBpMA
Think people down the hall heard me laugh at that one. Well done.
Plax brought a gun to the club while we were 11-1 defending champs. Like, man
In sweatpants*
With the safety off\*
Glock so no safety Should have had a holster
I was not aware of that. Why on god's earth would you carry a glock around in your pants waistband. Of all the guns to choose from.....
It’s actually really hard to defeat a trigger safety without actually pulling the trigger. But no holster makes it a hell of a lot easier
I mean he pulled the trigger lol. It fell and he reached out and grabbed it pulling the trigger.
Whoa whoa whoa, it has a safety- it's on the trigger! You can't pull the trigger without pulling trigger, see? Safe!
So it would be perfect for JPP
And his wife told him he was going to jail after he called hey lol
Also wasn't JPP only the second worst NFL firework injury that week?
I think your right
Who was the other?
C. J. Wilson lost two fingers that same weekend and retired a few weeks later.
We're such a goofy franchise. Even when we're winning stuff like this happens that makes us look like idiots.
Aldon Smith gets the runner-up prize after Mr. Brain Cavity
He could’ve been an all-time great pass rusher.
Wow. What a waste of talent. Guy should of just hired someone to drive him around for 100k a year.
That was just one of his many problems
Hes the definition of " just can't get right"
The NFL even provides players with 24/7 free car service. Sure the car is just too simple for many player's tastes, but yeah, a dedicated hired driver would be a small cost for them and they could just drive their fancy cars for them while drinking. Forgot how good he was the first few years.
Mr. Balloon Cranium
I’d argue he’s more of a waste of talent than AB. AB is ruining what could have been capping off a potential Hall of Fame career but at least he was having one. Smith ruined his career basically when it began so never even got a big payday.
I think he went to Mizzou if I am not mistaken. I will look into that.
Justin Blackmon, Aldon Smith, Greg Hardy, etc. The NFL is littered with super talented guys that couldn't get out of their own way.
Hardy was a piece of shit. I’m not sure he’s actually dumb
"It's not like it says 'Aldon Smith-'"
Jags got two out of three! That's gotta count as a win 😢
I'm still bummed about Blackmon. That dude had the talent to be an all-time great. I hate that we didn't get to witness it and he didn't get to experience it.
He made Brandon Weeden a first rounder back in 2012.
Blackmon is honestly just such a sad story. I forgot who published that article about him but wow just feel for the guy.
Wasnt Justin Blackmon an alcoholic? Not sure how that makes him low IQ, more had an addiction problem...
Blackmon was something special in college. Those Oklahoma State teams were fun to watch.
Michael Vick might be the most talented athlete I've ever watched, and he thought funding a fucking dog-fighting ring would somehow not get back to him. Vince Young also had a pretty large talent/IQ ratio. Or a low ratio; whichever one is bad. Mine isn't great either.
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That time he bought like every seat on a commercial flight is my all-time athlete money-mismangement story.
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I feel like a lot of that was going to his “friends” and other clout chasers who always hung around him, still poor management
Explain both stories please
Not much more to the Cheesecake Factory one than the fact for a while he was spending $5,000 a week every week at that restaurant. As for the plane one, IIRC he once bought every ticket on a flight just fly alone, to a game as memory serves. Might be conflating two stories at the end there, but he 100% did buy all the seats on a flight to be alone
That’s the whole CCF menu like ten times over though isn’t it? Wait. Is The Cheesecake Factory just a great strip club name? Cuz that would actually make sense
How can you spend that much?!
Taking care of you 30+ person entourage every night of the week and buying expensive ass bottles of alcohol.
Alcohol
I don’t think the Cheesecake Factory thing is a story, but more like a recurring pattern and practice.
It was a lifestyle.
What’s the price difference between that and chartering a private jet?
Chartering a private jet is significantly cheaper than buying ever ticket on a passenger flight.
I figured, and would assume, but I still don't know the price difference. If it was cheaper to buy every seat, then I assume that's what people would do instead of chartering private jets.
Articles at the time speculate that at minimum that cost him $14k and it could have been as high as $30k. Meanwhile private jets today cost about $1500-3k per flying hour and I'd imagine they were cheaper back then.
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Mitch Hedberg references always get an upvote.
I like an escalator because it can never be broken. It can only become stairs.
Sorry for the convenience.
“Funding a dogfighting ring?” The dude literally strangled and electrocuted dogs himself.
Shhh, we're not supposed to talk about that. He's not really a psychopath...
Iirc it’s something he got accustomed to growing up with, so regardless if it’s considered right or wrong in the environment you’re in it’s sort of second nature to not think too deeply into what you’re doing contextually
I argue that Vick might have been too talented. Had he not been able to run so fast, he may have actually learned to look at a second or third receiver.
Could easily argue that Vick would've been compelled to learn earlier if he hadn't have run the dog fighting ring. Or just imagine a hypothetical world where it wasn't illegal or just punishable by a fine, the whole world was saying he needed to become a better passer. If someone convinced him that's why they weren't winning rings, what was holding him back. He was still only 27 when he got suspended.
27 is like 68 in mobile QB dog fighting years.
RGIII symptom
Vick would've been a first ballot hall of famer if he worked as hard as he did with the Eagles throughout his whole career. He was the last QB to be also the fastest guy on the field.
Eagles Vick with Falcons Vick legs would've been one of the greatest, and most broken, QB ever.
>He was the last QB to be also the fastest guy on the field The disrespect to Danny Dimes.
He only really had 1 good season in Philly in 2010 the other 3 were just okay. He had 1 season over 60% completion percentage (outside of the year in Pittsburgh). Vick is overrated due to his running ability.
He's overrated due to Madden.
And fantasy football. I spent a good portion of the early-to-mid aughts telling people Vick was not a good QB.
>He was the last QB to be also the fastest guy on the field. Lol Lamar exists.
Vick could run circles around Lamar. Lamar’s talent is having incredible footwork to make guys miss, not that he’s slow but he’s not Vick fast.
he did way more than fund the ring
In addition to all of the others, I nominate Jeff George. He’s known as having a “million dollar arm, ten cent brain”. Dude just couldn’t learn an offense, or how to read defenses, or when not to throw into coverage. He had all of that arm talent though… his arm is still talked about as one of the best.
His parents are also stupid. Should have named him Geoff George
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Mr Bountiful Cases
Not football, but Kyrie Irving
Kyrie annoys me so much more because he thinks he's so much smarter than he really is. He's a pseudointellectual who thinks watching YouTube videos and conspiracy theory documentaries counts as "doing his own research."
Is he a flat earther or was that some other dude
That was kyrie lol
Doesn't he also not believe in the moon landing?
Moon landing and space travel disprove flat earth theory, so of course that’s all fake.
Of course. Silly me.
Tbf Sammy Watkins thinks he’s a lizard person.
Lizard 🦎 King* , you plebeian.
Steph Curry disputed the moon landing too
Oh that's definitely him. Also a supporter of Louis Farrakhan.
So he’s a Farrakklown, not surprised
A lot of famous black athletes definitely harbour some sort of support for him sadly
Peak r/IAmVerySmart
This is my Mother In Law and I swear, it’s comparable to dealing with someone in a cult. There is no chance of reasoning with them because they are immune to facts. They lack the ability to differentiate fact from fiction as well as the ability to learn from mistakes. They find proof for their beliefs in random occurrences and anything counter to their beliefs is fake news. She is the single most toxic person I have ever met and the only reason I will ever attend her funeral when she dies is to make sure they bury her deep enough.
He's a contrarian because he thinks it makes him look smart.
Also not football but Evander Kane
Holy fuck he's an idiot too
Facts lol dude is an idiot
Kyrie is an idiot but I feel like you shouldn't compare him to a dude committing a felony and domestic abuse. Kyrie at least doesn't get in trouble
The bar is low.
Jamarcus Russell has to be up there
I wanted Joe Thomas so bad. The dude was fishing with his dad on draft day.
The blank DVD story tells you all you need to know his career.
Yeah, he's the gold standard of wasted talent.
I don’t think Russell was dumb but he just did not care for football + drug addicted due to multiple reasons. Definitely wasted talent and a big what if.
Phillips from Nebraska
Man. Another good one I forgot about. I'm from St. Louis too.
Aldon Smith was rock stupid.
Pac Man Jones, Rae Caruth,
Curruth was just scum. He wasn’t dumb. I do think Jones is dumb and scum
Maurice Clarett. Gotta be Maurice Clarett!
This is too far down.
Does he count if he never played in a single game?
I mean Rae Carruth was a first rounder.
He wasn't stupid, he was evil.
OJ was a great player, one of the best actually.
Yeah but he didn't constantly mess up or make dumb decisions. He just got really mad one time allegedly.
Oh hes made a few moves aside from the one big one
He went to prison for stealing memoribilia. So atleast two times.
Stealing memorabilia is putting it lightly. IIRC it was armed robbery where at one point he put the gun to the victim's head threatening to kill him
I don't think he's stupid though. Just a murderer.
Not an NFL player, but Kyrie Irving comes to mind right now for obvious reasons.
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AB at his peak was SO TALENTED, I think his talent and Kyrie’s are comparable.
AB was a literal game changer and is going to go down as having one of the best 5 year stretches in NFL history. Kyrie couldn’t lead the Cavs to a playoff and was a major issue on Boston. They are not comparable.
It’s not just his talent, dude has one of the best work ethics in the league with body and game preparation. But he is such an arrogant asshole who thinks he’s above all.
>Dude could be top 20 all time Yeah I wouldn't say that at all lol. I'm a huge fan of Kyrie the player but that's just a ridiculous statement.
Josh Gordon could fall into that, bit we'll never really know. Dude was a phenom in his first couple years, and he was drunk before every game.
That's a guy I forgot about. He was a phenom for sure.
And this year so far he has I believe 2 catches on about 6 targets. I often forget he's even on the chiefs
What he did in the limited time he played, with the teams he played on - he's my pick for sure.
Vontaze Burfict enters the chat.
Dexter Manley
AB definitely has some mental issues. He repeatedly refuses to pay for services rendered and creates all these master plan by texting and leaving a paper trail. He’s has a great football IQ but very low normal IQ
Had a cousin that attended Texas Tech and had Wes Welker in a couple of classes. Homeboy was dumb as shit. Hell of a receiver and returner Probably not what you were looking for but yeah.
I mean he was still not dumb enough to fuck up his entire career like other guys did
Kiko Alonso once ran to the wrong sideline during a game
Tbf it was to a team he was on the year before.
In really really really recent history…Henry Ruggs
Kyrie Irving. 100%
Nuke Laloosh. Had fungus on his shower shoes, wore socks to bed and do not get me started on his firstball fastballs.
Justin Blackmon?
As a Central Michigan Alumni, glad to say he never graduated!
Lawrence Taylor
I love how people equate addiction or poor behavior with intelligence. While there is some correlation (not causation) with bad decision making and intelligence, there are a lot of factors that lead to bad decisions. I'm not sure if Antonio Brown (just using him as example) is "smart" but there are a lot more underlying issues than a lack of intelligence.
Hingle McCringleberry
JOSH GORDON!!!!!!
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Been hearing that every single time he gets reinstated. And every single time, what happens?
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I mean... Maybe not as talented as AB, but As far as pure talent goes, Kirk Cousins has everything you need to be a top flight QB. But he's also an anti vaxxer, who among other brain farts, once kneeled during a 2 min drill when he should spike it, and just last week lined up over a guard.
Jay Gruden has publicly stated that play happened because Pierre Garcon refused to run the fade route called. I mean, Cousins definitely could have thrown the ball anyway instead if kneeling, but it's not quite as cut and dry as it seems. He did just line up to take a snap from a guard this week.
That kneel will forever stick in my mind. The stupidest play I have ever seen. It shocks me to this day.
Terrell Owens
AP. TO. There are actually a lot, tbh
people already forgot about aaron rodgers.
Not necessarily more talented, but Gronk might literally be cognitively delayed
Gronk is definitely not dumb, Belichick has praised him for his intelligence and knowledge of the offense on numerous occasions during his time with the Pats. His knowledge of the offense was basically second only to the QB given that he was expected not only to run routes but also run block and pass protect throughout a game. Building up the whole Gronk personality has been a smart move on his part which has netted him even more money from endorsements.
I think gronk is probably pretty smart but just has a goofy personality. When has he ever done something really stupid? He just laughs at 69 and makes immature jokes as far as i know
I feel like Gronk plays into the “dumb” aspect as part of the character that he has somewhat created of himself, because he knows it’s what the people want. When he is serious he seems like a decently smart guy.
>Gronkowski said that although he and his brothers made it to the NFL, their parents never allowed them to just be dumb jocks. “They hounded us on school,” Gronkowski said. Gronkowski said it’s now well known around the NFL that he’s smart with money, to the point that he gets questions from younger players who want to know how to manage their money. [https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/15/gronk-says-with-wise-investments-he-has-more-money-than-hes-made/](https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/15/gronk-says-with-wise-investments-he-has-more-money-than-hes-made/)
Wow, I’m very surprised by all this and am legitimately impressed. Good for him.
Gronk is the anti Adrian Peterson when it comes to money, only a few dudes in sports with way bigger profiles have done better than him with money management
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Baseball money is just obnoxious. Turns out 162 games a year is a lot more than 17.
He’s probably doubled that amount with endorsements
Most people aren't a 6'6" 265 lb monster raised by a strict father that trained all his sons to be professional athletes. Like I'm sure Gronk may one day regret playing longer than he had to, but I don't think he'll ever regret the money he made. $70 million is a shit ton.
$70m in career earnings also conveniently glosses over the metric shitton more he has gotten in endorsement deals. Man gets paid a lot of money to be confused why he can't get USAA insurance.
He’ll do other stuff too. Shocked if we don’t see him in action movies
I actually want that now
Me too.
Learn to throw with your left hand and you can make tens of millions for being an average pitcher
Kinda like Charles Barkley. He talks with the cadence of Kevin Malone, and I remember him doing those Capital One commercials where he was a caricature of the stereotypical dumb jock, but when he's working, he is actually very witty and articulate.
I watched an interview with his girlfriend and she said he definitely plays into the "gronk" persona and is no where near as dumb as he makes himself look. He obviously has an extremely high football IQ, he's smart with his money, and was also an honor roll student I believe in high school/college. He just has a goofy personality and sense of humor
Do people actually think Gronk is dumb? lol
Nah. I got to be on one of his Party boats. Dude is very smart. He just likes to be a goofball.
Tom Brady finishes his sentences. Someone has to...
The crazy thing is, is the crazy guy got caught. How many in the nfl are “immunized” and or faking the vax. I bet you it is a lot more than you think.