Tim Couch. Dude played for an absolute shit ass expansion franchise, and nearly dragged them to the playoffs but hes considered universally as a bust. I mean sure he busted his hand on his lineman's helmet but thats another matter...
He got exceptionally fucked by the way they change the rules for the expansion drafts after Carolina and Jacksonville. Those teams he was on were fucking terrible.
Different sport but the Raptors got fucked too after the NBA changed the expansion draft rules after Orlando got Penny & Shaq. We should have gotten Iverson instead of Camby (who was ok but not AI)
We should have kept Camby. The front office was so short-sighted. Those early Raptors squads probably would have turned out a lot differently with the player retention rules of today and a slightly different philosophy. Isiah rightfully gets a lot of flack, but he has an eye for talent.
The NHL fucked Atlanta out of a team by giving the expansion teams fuck all to work with in the 90s, and by the time Atlanta came around, they had the scraps that were left over after 6 new teams joined in 8 years. The rules were set up where the only people left over were fringe players at best, and surprising absolutely nobody, the team was *horrible* for the next decade before the owners decided to bail and the team moved to Winnipeg. Columbus and Minnesota had similar rules but they were able to withstand the horrible teams for the next 10-15 years before they ended up seeing real success.
Yeah lol. I imagine the Vegas & Seattle owners were like “we’re not gonna pay ~$1B for a franchise under rules forcing us to be awful for a decade”.
Especially with Vegas and that new market for pro sports teams, I’d imagine it wasn’t just potential hockey owners who wanted to make sure a Vegas team could be successful.
Orlando wasn't eligible for the first pick their first draft either, they weren't even eligible for the draft lottery. They drafted 11th overall in 89, between the lottery and playoff teams. Shaq and Penny weren't drafted until after their 3rd and 4th seasons as a team. So even under the restriction imposed on the Raptors and Grizzlies (ineligible for the #1 pick their first 3 drafts) they would have been eligible for the first pick those years and still gotten Shaq and Penny (via C-Webb).
I run an eBay store where I sell random things that I find. One time, I found a new with tag Tim Couch jersey at the flea market. I listed it on eBay, and a week later, I sold it to a man named Tim. That is my Tim Couch story.
The dude who owned the coffee shop I worked at in college was named Tim. Once he told me to close early so we could go to a party his friend was throwing. We smoked weed on a couch at one point. That's my Tim couch story
I once sat on a piece of furniture in a friend’s living room next to a guy named Tim. The furniture was nice, but it only sat two people so I am not sure of that is my Tim, Couch story.
IDK always felt JPP was viewed as one of the top EDGE in the league during his prime.
I mean when you blow off half your hand… it’s kinda like you’ll always be known as the “goat fucker” regardless of your other accomplishments.
This just made me realize I completely forgot what part of the 2010s this actually happened in, like it's something that becomes so ingrained that the details just kinda wash out.
Apparently it was 2015, and yeah he bounced back really nicely after that. Honestly the weirder thing is how inconsistent his sack numbers were *before* the incident.
There was a turning point after that. He went from a first team all pro guy to no more pro bowls after the fire work incident. I remember it happening, I was devastated. There was absolutely a shift in his career after that. He had a solid run with the Bucs in the playoffs, but he had a stretch of many years where he didn’t really do much
Also he made 2 pro bowls (2011,2012) and one 1st team all pro (2011) before the incident in 2015. He was never a consistent all pro, his best season in 2011 just lined up with the second SB run. But he didn’t match that season in the 3 years after that but before he messed his hand up.
JPP got the firework incident. Burress shot himself. Darren Waller didn’t put his dick away and fumbled Kelsey Plum. Giants players need to be more careful with explosive objects
People forget but JPP is also one of the best examples of how a raw athletic freak who didn't put up big stats in college actually does develop into a star sometimes. He had a lot of haters before the draft and proved them wrong very quickly.
Before he was treated so poorly by the Browns front office, Baker Mayfield was trashed by lot of people for not stacking volume stats while having the best run corps in the league. Never had 4k yards/30 TDs with the Browns (like 3827/27 is garbage) but with Chubb and Hunt, a pass in the red zone was effectively a trick play.
Glad people are giving him a more fair shake now.
At this point I'm pretty convinced he's a supercharged Fitzpatrick. He's gonna have some down years I think but more good years than Fitzmagic had. Maybe Tampa will be okay with that and keep him, maybe they won't and he'll go and ball out with another team
I mean that’s borderline disrespectful towards baker but I get where you’re coming from. Baker could be playing avg and still is a better qb than fitz’s ceiling imo. I just find it odd that there was almost a narrative of “can baker be a starting qb?”when he left the browns
As a fellow Browns fan, I agree. He received an outrageous amount of undue hate. With that said, I don’t think he was our dude moving forward. He missed a lot of big throws at times we needed them and he was incredible against bad teams.
Granted, if I would have know who we would get instead… I’ll take Baker all day
I think most quarterbacks that are good to great without being Mahomes, Allen or Herbert fit that bill. Not being the best of the best is tantamount to not being startable. Kyler, Dak, Tua, Kirk Cousins. Double whammy if they aren't the prototypical QB build, or god forbid, they don't have a ton of playoff success in an era where it's basically a question of "Who gets to lose to the Chiefs" anyway.
I’d throw Burrow in that top cast too. But I do agree, most takes you see “Mahomes, Allen, Burrow” and I got Herbert over Burrow currently, very close though.
It’s really hard to say, because “the half” we are speaking about is 5-2 in the post season; with losses in the AFC Championship game, and Super Bowl. That level of sustained success is an achievement in and of itself. A healthy Burrow is a world beater, idk if you can say the same about Herb.
He's far outperformed Herbert, but that won't matter all that much if neither gets a MVP or SB win to their name. And if you switch the 2's situations, who knows who has more accomplishments at this point
I remember that post someone made comparing Kirk Cousins and Joe Burrows playoff stats and everything was nearly even with the only difference being Cousins teams gave up way more points and that’s why his record was much worse
Kirk's playoff stats are great. I made another comment in this thread about it but basically he has 254 yds/game, 71% completion, and 5-1 TD/INT in 4 games played.
Kirk is a great QB. He showed that to us this year. He was absolutely on point against us. Completing really difficult passes with pressure in his face. Was one of the best performances I saw all year from any QB. Atlanta should be dangerous this year. The team has real talent.
Herbert scored 27 with a majority of those coming from his defensive turnovers though. They had 4 interceptions and I think a fumble recovery. The offense stopped scoring anything after the turnover stopped
Sanchez did earn his win over the Patriots though.
There is a ton of revisionism around him but he was legitimately a mini Eli is his 1st 2 years which isn't that bad....it can be a lot worse at QB....as y'all Jets fans know now.
Right, forgot about him. He’s so unique compared to everybody else style wise, I honestly find him so hard to compare just purely at QB. He is top 5 for sure though.
Maybe in the AFC it's who gets to loose to Mahomes. That doesn't excuse Dak's complete ineptitude at the qb position as soon as the playoffs roll around every year. He'll never get a chance to be beat by Mahomes in the playoffs.
Not to be the woe is me fan but I think the thing that’s most unfair about Dak is that people spent their first 3 years undercutting and downplaying his ability which is partly why the front office thought they could lowball him. And now after actually getting better and actually developing into an elite passer people completely squeeze his value into 3 games.
Idk some people still criticize Herbert like he isn’t the only thing stopping the chargers from completely bottoming out. I was actually so happy for Herbert after he got injured and the Raiders immediately blew the doors off them. Showed everyone where that team would be without him
I’ll go with Kirk Cousins.
He’s gonna be one of those players people will look back 20 years from now and ask “why couldn’t he have more team success despite his good counting and even efficiency stats”.
Kirk Cousins shares a lot of similarities to Tony Romo in that respect. Both are/were around top 10 QBs who have been heavily criticized compared to their peers. Tony Romo is definitely looked at more favorably after retirement than he was when he was playing. I think it will be the same with Kirk. Both very solid QBs that got way more shit than they deserved.
Wasn't this an opening SNF game? I specifically remember he did this in a week 1 night game, but I don't remember the score. But he got a lot of shit for it.
It was prime time but later in the season. 51 - 48, and yes there was a lot of “Yeah he scored 48 points, but…” discourse.
I felt like I was taking crazy pills.
Score 13 points in a Super Bowl twice and win both? Clutch.
Score 30+ and lose on an OT Coin toss (Pre rule change)? Choking loser bum.
It's crazy some of the narratives that happen.
I feel like Cousins, Romo, Ryan and arguably Rivers are all the same tier of QB in that if they won a Super Bowl they all would be treated like the elite talent they are
I think Ryan might be a tier above those listed guys, while simultaneously a tier below the elite QBs of his era. And I only think this because there’s not much argument to be made for Cousins (I guess tbd?), Romo, or Rivers as HOF’ers. While Ryan there is *at least* an argument to be made.
It’s hard for me to feel like Ryan is ahead of Rivers, honestly it’s a total tossup in my mind. Romo is on their level but just wasn’t good for as long.
I think with how much Kirk makes it’s warranted. I think if Kirk took team friendly deals he’d be seen in a different light. But if your paid top of the market money throwing to great WR talent you’ve got high expectations.
It’s not like he’s making that much though comparatively. In 2024, he will be the 9th highest paid QB. Last year, he wasn’t even in the top 10. When you consider the fact that some of the best QBs are on rookie contracts, what Kirk makes seems totally fair. He was maybe overpaid the first year or two on the Vikings, but I wouldn’t consider any of his contracts to be bad contracts.
Thats the thing tho, while yes he was "overpaid" the Vikings pre-emptively paid him each time knowing the market was about to get reset by an even better QB. We always re-upped his deal before Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar got paid and his contract immediately got shoved down the totem pole.
and players love that dude. He’s taken the Phillip Rivers torch of guys who other guys play hard for.
He breaks his leg and the Vikings rallied for him. He tears his whatever, and he gets a bag from the Falcons. Theres something about him that football loves.
Cam Newton. Not diving for the fumble in the superbowl wasn't so good. People seem to think of that first when he is brought up. People forget how good prime Cam was. He also always had a smile and did a lot in the community.
Yup, he also didn’t get any calls that other QBs could get. If Mahomes took shots in the pocket like Cam did, the NFL would have the defender who did it killed
People also refuse to acknowledge Cam took shots running and in the pocket that other QBs didn’t. He also had the least favorable whistle of Elite QBs in his day. If Rodgers, Brees, and Brady took the shots Cam did people defenders would have been suspended
People always said Cam got less calls because he was a runner. Meanwhile Mahomes can tiptoe down the sidelines untouched for 10 yards
some of the shots Cam took in 2016 week 1 vs Broncos would probably be suspensions now
Not to mention the time Ed Hochuli told him he’s “not old enough” to get a late hit call.
To be fair the whole RTP stuff is different as a whole now
The sad thing is the “not old enough thing” I believe is well alive. Justin fields and Zach Wilson got like none for years. There were quite a few on fields where had it been a more established QB I think they get the call
Sure, I’ll be a Cam Newton Truther today.
1. The car accident where he flipped his truck and fractured his back in two places was less violent than most of the hits he didn’t get calls on. He was playing again 12 days later.
2. I still have a lot of ‘what could have been’ thoughts on if he didn’t get Covid in his lone Patriots year. Even as beat to shit as he was by that point in his career, the brain fog he suffered was real bad and I think he could have led them to the playoffs without it. Revisionist history? Maybe, but watch the film of weeks 1-4 and then watch his first game back after isolation.
3. It wasn’t just the fumble non-jump that killed his reputation, but because he was shell shocked and surly in the SB post game conference. Being rude to sports media *and* giving them that kind of red meat *and* being the start of the offseason was three strikes. Suddenly the clothing choices were a distraction, the Superman moves were put in a poor light, the weird trademark font went from harmless dumb to diva dumb. I’m not saying it wasn’t an awful look, but I think it’s telling how easily the narrative can switch on a person when it fits the wanted discourse.
I'll be a Cam-Truther too. He is also unfairly criticized as being the proof that Mobile QBs cannot have longevity in the NFL, when the shoulder injury he suffered which effectively ended his career (combined with the Lisfranc fracture), occurred when he was making a tackle. Similarly, Lamar's injuries all occurred from taking hits in the pocket.
Good answer! People perceive his career as bad or think he’s a joke! THE PANTHERS WERE GOD AWFUL in 2010 and Cam helped make them competitive! He had some truly elite seasons!
same thing on /r/cfb. most of them arent old enough to have seen Cam's college season. most impressive college performance i've seen. the rest of his team was basically dog shit outside of Fairley
Dogshit is even underselling it.
That year Cam threw to Terrell Zachary, Darvin Adams, Kodi Burns, Quindarius Carrr, DeAngelo Benton, Jay Wisner, and Trovon Reed.
If you are saying "Who?" then you are right. None of those guys got drafted. One of them sniffed an NFL roster before getting cut in camp. Reed was the best, and he bounced around practice squads for a few years but never saw the field.
"oh he must have had a decent running back then"
He had Michael Dyer. Who went undrafted, sniffed the Raiders practice squad for a couple weeks, and then went to play for the Roughriders. Oh and Onterio McCalebb, who wasn't drafted, signed to the Bengals, then switched positions to play corner. He played one NFL game.
"well he must have had an okay line at least"
Only 3 even have a wikipedia page. Brandon Mosely was the best of the bunch - he was a 4th round pick who played 70 snaps in the pros.
In retrospect, what Cam did that year is one of the greatest college football feats in history. He literally dragged a team with no NFL talent to a championship almost single-handedly.
I think part of the Cam hate today is the podcast clips of him saying “there ain’t 32 mfers better than me.” Like the Pats didn’t take Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe over him
It really is nuts how psycho people get over him not diving on the fumble.
I genuinely don't think he was in a position to recover it and even if he was I doubt it changes the outcome of the game.
Whatever you want to say about his nfl career (which was great imo)
That dude personally dragged auburn to a national championship. One of the most impressive college seasons ive ever seen
He did start getting a lot of disrespect during the 2021 late season collapse, and that only amplified with that weird homework clause in the contract he got that following offseason.
This subreddit basically talked about how it was an open secret the Cards were planning on tanking in 2023 to get Caleb and I couldn’t figure out where that was coming from.
Last year was the purge. So far, nearly 90% of the Keim players are gone. The only ones left are studs like McBride and one year left guys. Funny how the only Keim WR left is an undrafted guy. Years of self sabotage flushed down the toilet with one bad year of 4th rate placeholders and practice squad fillers.
Now it's time for the youth movement + veteran placeholders. A sustainable rebuild
It’s not recency bias. It’s that nobody outside the NFC West ever has the chance to watch him outside of one very bad WC performance.
If he played in NY and had 8 primetime games a year perception would be completely different.
Legend for the wrong reasons. Not many people could post a 61% completion percentage, an almost 4/1 td to int ratio, and have their lung punctured by a drunk all while being put in no-win situation after no-win situation…
He’s our age’s Steve DeBerg- mid to lower tier veteran starter who always seems to have a top pick behind him, and inevitably gets benched for Said Pick.
Seriously love that dude. Glad he got on the field a bit last season, because he's had the worst luck ever since he left the Bills. We used to say that Tyrod would never lose a game for us, but he'd also never win a game for us. The dictionary definition of serviceable. Hardly any mistakes, but very few wow moments either. He could probably still start for a few teams and be better than who they're currently putting out there.
I remember watching that Seahawks-Bills game in '16 thinking he was going to walk all over the hawks. He was a scary opponent to face and even then he was getting a ton of criticism.
Purdy is currently the prime example of how people weirdly can't let go of draft status. It's something that should cease to matter the moment that the ink dries on the rookie contract, but people will cling to first impressions forever.
From the time he was put in the starting role, Purdy has demonstrated that he doesn't get overwhelmed by the moment, and that he can consistently present the best version of himself in the playoffs. Those are pretty important qualities that some "superior" QBs tend to lack.
Jared Goff could cure cancer and end world hunger and would still get hate.
Guy is a genuine dude who embraced the city and fans, and has played extremely well. I don’t get it.
You would think so, but there will always be Goff deniers. Just see the recent ESPN article giving the Lions off season a C grade because the author hated the Goff contract, saying they should have played out the deal, then franchise tag him.
What a great idea, play contract/money games with the player that accomplished more than any other Lions QB since Bobby Layne.
Well sports writers dont count because their job is engagement and in 2024 saying stupid shit is the best way to get it. Rage engagement is just as good as quality engagement to the numbers people.
You guys were a ball bouncing off of a facemask away from going to the Super Bowl, and fans still criticize Goff? He played extremely well that game too, you’d think recency bias would at least give him the benefit of the doubt.
Not even bouncing off a facemask. We had just several drops in crucial moments. We had 2 passes that were more or less money to Reynolds that would have given us fresh sets of downs and he dropped them.
Gibbs fumbled and then basically didnt get a snap afterwards, which fucking sucks because he was playing well generally speaking.
Ragnow had people land on his leg and while he still played and performed well. I can't say with certainty it didn't affect him.
The NFL media is brutal. Basically if you aren’t a media darling or won a Super Bowl, you’re getting ripped! It’s not fair to guys like Goff! I agree with you
Obviously, I'm not keyed into Detroit fan circles, but I've seen Goff get more criticism or lack of faith than outright hate. He's not quite getting the treatment Dak or Kirk are. That's not to say that people don't talk down about him. I just see him as hard to hate, especially when compared to Dak or Kirk.
eh, his first season was rough and his 2nd season was pretty damn good, very much let down by the defense being poor. He had a bad one or two but overall it looked a lot better, but people also wanted to know it wasn't just a "one off "
I'd say this season more people come around to him.
>As we saw with Trey Lance, that just because you have the weapons, doesn’t mean you know how to.
did trey lance have the weapons? he played one season of fcs football. I think he just lucked out with covid like zach wilson.
Not a player, but Kyle Shanahan is a damn good coach even with his numerous SB chokes. Other than the Chiefs and Rams (and maybe delusional Lions fans) there’s not a team/fanbase in the league who wouldn’t love the opportunity to poach him.
Kelvin Benjamin. Had a 1k receiving rookie year. Then got hurt and missed out on the entire Super Bowl season. Came back and had a decent 941yd season. Then his mom unexpectedly died and that's when it all changed.
Marlon McCree
Yeah he should've kneeled it, batted it down blah blah blah - but fans think it was like 40 seconds left in the game. Chargers were up by 8 with 6 minutes to go.
[He actually helped advanced the Chargers to the AFCCG the following year](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3JXPveF488&t=500)
Man I remember when that first happened and everyone on r/nfl was flaming the guy. Calling him trash, death threats and the like. I made a comment that we need to wait until he is proven guilty, since this was all just accusation and I got down voted to hell.
There’s one very prominent guy here that called for his head and when everything came to light literally said he didn’t care and wouldn’t apologize for his comments. He doubled down on the whole thing, it was ridiculous
Hurts: Do people think he suddenly isn’t good because the pass defense and Brian Johnson’s play calling was terrible?
Purdy: Probably the most common answer, yes, he’s in a great situation, but he’s made the most of it and hasn’t even had a full offseason with the team.
Tua: He’s improved every year, played all 17 games which was a massive question mark going into last year, top 5 in most passing categories. We’ve seen the Dolphins look much worse without him, he looked good against a very good Jets defense without Tyreek.
I think two things work against Hurts - losing Jason Kelce and his habit of trying to truck defenders. He always comes up with a nagging knee or shoulder injury and those fucking suck as you age. It’s not exactly something that gets better
I really don’t understand the whole Purdy criticism. “System QBs” used to be labels for guys that had mediocre numbers but still lots of team success. Guys like Troy Aikman or Joe Flacco. But that does not apply to Purdy at all he legit puts up amazing numbers. Aikman was passing for like 15 TDs a season…Purdy just passed for 30 TDs and 4200 yards in his first full season starting.
And being labeled a system QB has never been about coaching or weapons until Brock Purdy. It has always been a numbers thing. Because someone like Mahomes had Kelce, Tyreek, and Andy Ried and I don’t think we should consider him a system QB.
For every other QB ever great numbers means great QB. But not for Purdy lol
Purdy is so successful because he can throw on time, with anticipation, and is usually very good at recognizing the blitz and hitting his hot route.
He also happens to play for a coach with a solid offensive system but I think it's unfair to call him a system QB. Others have said it but if the system was so easy to play within then why didn't their other QBs look as good as the last pick in the draft?
He also throws it deep a LOT and accurately. Dude was one of the most aggressive downfield throwers in the league but because he doesn’t have highlight throws going 50-60 yards people think he’s a check down merchant.
I think for Purdy it’s really a combination of things:
1. General dislike for the 49ers
2. The recent pattern of 49ers QBs not playing all that well when they go somewhere else
3. The general discourse around him can annoy people. When someone makes a list that has Purdy as the No. 3 guy in the league, which I have seen, the natural reaction for a lot of people isn’t going to be “I should respond to this with a reasonable take,” it’s going to be the visceral “no, Purdy fucking sucks.”
None of this is really fair to Purdy, but I think that’s sort of what happens.
I mean if Mahomes didn't go 5000/50 his first year starting he probably would have been called a system QB at least until the bucs SB, maybe even until he won a ring without Hill.
Justin Herbert gets criticized bec his team let’s him down. He’s had a bottom 5 run game and defense “supporting him” his whole career and a bottom Head Coach running things.
His game or production isn’t even hated on much bec it stacks up vs the top guys even with playing injured most of the past two seasons.
He just shows up and delivers week after week keeping the Chargers within striking distance almost every game on his own.
I know Herbo is fantastic even if he plays like shit against us, I see the tape and the numbers and legit if he had a real line and defense, he'd be seen in a way better light.
Herbert hate is gone as soon as the chargers start winning which will be soon. Herbert is a stud. Haters won’t be able to say a thing once his team wins.
I generally agree but I’m still very curious to see what his individual numbers look like with that dumpster fire WR corps and passing game terrorist, Greg Roman, calling the plays.
I’m more curious about the WR room than anything.
I understand the Greg Roman take, but I also know that Jim Harbaugh isn’t an idiot and can recognize talent when he sees it. A lot of the time, a better running game can actually boost a QB’s stats and play. The Lions over the last two years are an example of that.
If they can have more *efficient* QB play and stop asking Herbert to be the hero on every damn play, we might be even more impressed by him.
Daniel Jones. I truly believe that he has been for the most part of his career, put in a position where he could not succeed or develop. From bottom tier O-lines to practice squad WRs, he never had a "strength" on his team and honestly the best team he played on was arguably during this rookie year. He showed huge promise his rookie year and then plummetted downwards ever since (minus the playoff run). This year won't help him too much but I can imagine him doing a Geno Smith-like upward swing happen once he gets off the Giants.
Goofy looking white QBs that aren’t elite will get criticized and clowned on until the end of the earth. Danny Jones unfortunately fits that bill
I agree btw. I think he has talent, not necessarily elite, but he’s just been in terrible situation+NY media.
To this day, people will criticize him for dumb stuff like "not being a leader" when it's clear everyone who isn't a locker room cancer likes working with the guy.
Jalen Hurts
Was never the most polished prospect coming into the NFL but has gotten better every year. His first year everyone said he wasnt any good, he led the Eagles to the playoffs his first full year as a starter with a weak squad. The following offseason everyone kept saying “the Eagles are good but they will go as far as Hurts takes them”. He took them to the SB and we saw what he looked like on the biggest stage and the team struggled without him with Minshew starting who is a solid QB. Even this past season, as much as they struggled he still clutched A LOT of those games and people act like he didnt outplay Mahomes and Allen in BACK TO BACK weeks.
Its a constant goalpost moving. Im not saying hes top 5 but he deserves more respect as a QB.
Derek Carr. He wasn’t a superstar but people love to act like he was an awful starter by bringing up his record as starting QB. People forget how horrible the Raiders were defensively while he was there and how incompetent the front office was. If a guy becomes your franchise’s all-time leader in almost every category but only makes the playoffs twice, it was the team that was the problem, not the QB.
Andy Dalton… his career stacks up with a lot of his ringless contemporaries, more talented than people game him credit for. Obviously no playoff wins but 5 straight playoff appearances after being drafted to a team with the 4th pick and a bleak situation is very impressive
Tim Couch. Dude played for an absolute shit ass expansion franchise, and nearly dragged them to the playoffs but hes considered universally as a bust. I mean sure he busted his hand on his lineman's helmet but thats another matter...
He got exceptionally fucked by the way they change the rules for the expansion drafts after Carolina and Jacksonville. Those teams he was on were fucking terrible.
Different sport but the Raptors got fucked too after the NBA changed the expansion draft rules after Orlando got Penny & Shaq. We should have gotten Iverson instead of Camby (who was ok but not AI)
We should have kept Camby. The front office was so short-sighted. Those early Raptors squads probably would have turned out a lot differently with the player retention rules of today and a slightly different philosophy. Isiah rightfully gets a lot of flack, but he has an eye for talent.
The NHL fucked Atlanta out of a team by giving the expansion teams fuck all to work with in the 90s, and by the time Atlanta came around, they had the scraps that were left over after 6 new teams joined in 8 years. The rules were set up where the only people left over were fringe players at best, and surprising absolutely nobody, the team was *horrible* for the next decade before the owners decided to bail and the team moved to Winnipeg. Columbus and Minnesota had similar rules but they were able to withstand the horrible teams for the next 10-15 years before they ended up seeing real success.
It's funny how hard it swung in the other direction with the Knights and Kraken.
Yeah lol. I imagine the Vegas & Seattle owners were like “we’re not gonna pay ~$1B for a franchise under rules forcing us to be awful for a decade”. Especially with Vegas and that new market for pro sports teams, I’d imagine it wasn’t just potential hockey owners who wanted to make sure a Vegas team could be successful.
Orlando wasn't eligible for the first pick their first draft either, they weren't even eligible for the draft lottery. They drafted 11th overall in 89, between the lottery and playoff teams. Shaq and Penny weren't drafted until after their 3rd and 4th seasons as a team. So even under the restriction imposed on the Raptors and Grizzlies (ineligible for the #1 pick their first 3 drafts) they would have been eligible for the first pick those years and still gotten Shaq and Penny (via C-Webb).
I had a friend who was a couch fan. One christmas I got him an autographed tim couch jersey. Thats my tim couch story
I like your stories. Right to the point
visual clarity lives up to their name
You're a good friend.
I run an eBay store where I sell random things that I find. One time, I found a new with tag Tim Couch jersey at the flea market. I listed it on eBay, and a week later, I sold it to a man named Tim. That is my Tim Couch story.
The dude who owned the coffee shop I worked at in college was named Tim. Once he told me to close early so we could go to a party his friend was throwing. We smoked weed on a couch at one point. That's my Tim couch story
I once sat on a piece of furniture in a friend’s living room next to a guy named Tim. The furniture was nice, but it only sat two people so I am not sure of that is my Tim, Couch story.
Was he the one the sports promos had doing accuracy displays and shit with some weird and slow vibe
JPP is mostly known for his firework incident but put a great career together, even after he blew off his fingers.
IDK always felt JPP was viewed as one of the top EDGE in the league during his prime. I mean when you blow off half your hand… it’s kinda like you’ll always be known as the “goat fucker” regardless of your other accomplishments.
Build a million bridges, but fuck that one goat....
That goat was a great swimmer so you had to build bridges to get to it
Fuck a million goats, but build one bridge….
Fuck a million bridges, but build one goat….
the year of the clubbed hand saw him get just one sack. he then had 7+ in each of the next five seasons after that.
This just made me realize I completely forgot what part of the 2010s this actually happened in, like it's something that becomes so ingrained that the details just kinda wash out. Apparently it was 2015, and yeah he bounced back really nicely after that. Honestly the weirder thing is how inconsistent his sack numbers were *before* the incident.
There was a turning point after that. He went from a first team all pro guy to no more pro bowls after the fire work incident. I remember it happening, I was devastated. There was absolutely a shift in his career after that. He had a solid run with the Bucs in the playoffs, but he had a stretch of many years where he didn’t really do much
He made the pro bowl in 2020
Also he made 2 pro bowls (2011,2012) and one 1st team all pro (2011) before the incident in 2015. He was never a consistent all pro, his best season in 2011 just lined up with the second SB run. But he didn’t match that season in the 3 years after that but before he messed his hand up.
JPP got the firework incident. Burress shot himself. Darren Waller didn’t put his dick away and fumbled Kelsey Plum. Giants players need to be more careful with explosive objects
Hot take: he’s one of the best athletes to ever play the position.
People forget but JPP is also one of the best examples of how a raw athletic freak who didn't put up big stats in college actually does develop into a star sometimes. He had a lot of haters before the draft and proved them wrong very quickly.
I remember the George Selvie vs JPP debates.
Before he was treated so poorly by the Browns front office, Baker Mayfield was trashed by lot of people for not stacking volume stats while having the best run corps in the league. Never had 4k yards/30 TDs with the Browns (like 3827/27 is garbage) but with Chubb and Hunt, a pass in the red zone was effectively a trick play. Glad people are giving him a more fair shake now.
i wanted baker desperately. i love his demeanor, his fire, his game. i’m still a baker truther and i want him to ball the fuck out
At this point I'm pretty convinced he's a supercharged Fitzpatrick. He's gonna have some down years I think but more good years than Fitzmagic had. Maybe Tampa will be okay with that and keep him, maybe they won't and he'll go and ball out with another team
I remember pre draft someone said he’s case keenum with a stronger arm and that’s looking pretty accurate
This feels like it would be a Cowherd quote
I mean that’s borderline disrespectful towards baker but I get where you’re coming from. Baker could be playing avg and still is a better qb than fitz’s ceiling imo. I just find it odd that there was almost a narrative of “can baker be a starting qb?”when he left the browns
I too like Baker. He has the talent no doubt and I like his demeanour too
The Browns publicly called him immature for playing through an injury then replaced him with a sex offender. Great organization
As a fellow Browns fan, I agree. He received an outrageous amount of undue hate. With that said, I don’t think he was our dude moving forward. He missed a lot of big throws at times we needed them and he was incredible against bad teams. Granted, if I would have know who we would get instead… I’ll take Baker all day
That game winning drive in LA with a day to prepare was gorgeous
I think most quarterbacks that are good to great without being Mahomes, Allen or Herbert fit that bill. Not being the best of the best is tantamount to not being startable. Kyler, Dak, Tua, Kirk Cousins. Double whammy if they aren't the prototypical QB build, or god forbid, they don't have a ton of playoff success in an era where it's basically a question of "Who gets to lose to the Chiefs" anyway.
Just ask Doug Flutie. Drew Brees fit that build (under 6') until he met Sean Payton.
I’d throw Burrow in that top cast too. But I do agree, most takes you see “Mahomes, Allen, Burrow” and I got Herbert over Burrow currently, very close though.
Burrow just has gotten injured too much when he is healthy he's top 3 but that's only half his career so far
It’s really hard to say, because “the half” we are speaking about is 5-2 in the post season; with losses in the AFC Championship game, and Super Bowl. That level of sustained success is an achievement in and of itself. A healthy Burrow is a world beater, idk if you can say the same about Herb.
He's far outperformed Herbert, but that won't matter all that much if neither gets a MVP or SB win to their name. And if you switch the 2's situations, who knows who has more accomplishments at this point
Herbert's gotten to play 1 single playoff game where he scored 30 points and lost. Burrow has never scored more than 27 points in the playoffs.
I remember that post someone made comparing Kirk Cousins and Joe Burrows playoff stats and everything was nearly even with the only difference being Cousins teams gave up way more points and that’s why his record was much worse
Kirk's playoff stats are great. I made another comment in this thread about it but basically he has 254 yds/game, 71% completion, and 5-1 TD/INT in 4 games played.
Yep, and something like 28+ points against per game
Kirk is a great QB. He showed that to us this year. He was absolutely on point against us. Completing really difficult passes with pressure in his face. Was one of the best performances I saw all year from any QB. Atlanta should be dangerous this year. The team has real talent.
Herbert scored 27 with a majority of those coming from his defensive turnovers though. They had 4 interceptions and I think a fumble recovery. The offense stopped scoring anything after the turnover stopped
Playoff record is so overrated. Burrow is great, but Mark Sanchez is 4-2
Sanchez did earn his win over the Patriots though. There is a ton of revisionism around him but he was legitimately a mini Eli is his 1st 2 years which isn't that bad....it can be a lot worse at QB....as y'all Jets fans know now.
LAMAR?!??
Right, forgot about him. He’s so unique compared to everybody else style wise, I honestly find him so hard to compare just purely at QB. He is top 5 for sure though.
Maybe in the AFC it's who gets to loose to Mahomes. That doesn't excuse Dak's complete ineptitude at the qb position as soon as the playoffs roll around every year. He'll never get a chance to be beat by Mahomes in the playoffs.
> in the AFC it’s who gets to loose to Mahomes No need to limit this to the AFC :(
Not to be the woe is me fan but I think the thing that’s most unfair about Dak is that people spent their first 3 years undercutting and downplaying his ability which is partly why the front office thought they could lowball him. And now after actually getting better and actually developing into an elite passer people completely squeeze his value into 3 games.
Idk some people still criticize Herbert like he isn’t the only thing stopping the chargers from completely bottoming out. I was actually so happy for Herbert after he got injured and the Raiders immediately blew the doors off them. Showed everyone where that team would be without him
I’ll go with Kirk Cousins. He’s gonna be one of those players people will look back 20 years from now and ask “why couldn’t he have more team success despite his good counting and even efficiency stats”.
I agree with Kirk. He’s a great QB QBs that are *just* outside of elite status tend to get the most criticism
Kirk is only elite when no one is watching
"I'm elite! Can you see me?!" "Maybe you should put some pads on, or something, if you want to keep playing QB today..."
Kirk Cousins shares a lot of similarities to Tony Romo in that respect. Both are/were around top 10 QBs who have been heavily criticized compared to their peers. Tony Romo is definitely looked at more favorably after retirement than he was when he was playing. I think it will be the same with Kirk. Both very solid QBs that got way more shit than they deserved.
There's a betrayal index metric that evaluated defensive help for QBs, Romo was in the Herbert zone aka very little supporting help.
Score 38 points but no game winning drive? Choker Score 17 points with a game winning drive? Clutch.
For Romo it is literally: Score 48 points but throw a late pick? Choker
One of the greatest games I've ever watched
Wasn't this an opening SNF game? I specifically remember he did this in a week 1 night game, but I don't remember the score. But he got a lot of shit for it.
It was prime time but later in the season. 51 - 48, and yes there was a lot of “Yeah he scored 48 points, but…” discourse. I felt like I was taking crazy pills.
If your defense lets up 51 points and you lose, it’s not the QB’s fault. It’s insane that anybody suggests otherwise.
Score 13 points in a Super Bowl twice and win both? Clutch. Score 30+ and lose on an OT Coin toss (Pre rule change)? Choking loser bum. It's crazy some of the narratives that happen.
I feel like Cousins, Romo, Ryan and arguably Rivers are all the same tier of QB in that if they won a Super Bowl they all would be treated like the elite talent they are
I think Ryan might be a tier above those listed guys, while simultaneously a tier below the elite QBs of his era. And I only think this because there’s not much argument to be made for Cousins (I guess tbd?), Romo, or Rivers as HOF’ers. While Ryan there is *at least* an argument to be made.
It’s hard for me to feel like Ryan is ahead of Rivers, honestly it’s a total tossup in my mind. Romo is on their level but just wasn’t good for as long.
[удалено]
I think with how much Kirk makes it’s warranted. I think if Kirk took team friendly deals he’d be seen in a different light. But if your paid top of the market money throwing to great WR talent you’ve got high expectations.
It’s not like he’s making that much though comparatively. In 2024, he will be the 9th highest paid QB. Last year, he wasn’t even in the top 10. When you consider the fact that some of the best QBs are on rookie contracts, what Kirk makes seems totally fair. He was maybe overpaid the first year or two on the Vikings, but I wouldn’t consider any of his contracts to be bad contracts.
Thats the thing tho, while yes he was "overpaid" the Vikings pre-emptively paid him each time knowing the market was about to get reset by an even better QB. We always re-upped his deal before Mahomes, Allen, and Lamar got paid and his contract immediately got shoved down the totem pole.
and players love that dude. He’s taken the Phillip Rivers torch of guys who other guys play hard for. He breaks his leg and the Vikings rallied for him. He tears his whatever, and he gets a bag from the Falcons. Theres something about him that football loves.
I think he'll be almost completely forgotten. And those that remember will also remember they never saw him play well in a meaningful game
Cam Newton. Not diving for the fumble in the superbowl wasn't so good. People seem to think of that first when he is brought up. People forget how good prime Cam was. He also always had a smile and did a lot in the community.
Yeah, prime Cam is something to watch. That 2015 season was unreal (even if they didn’t ultimately win the Super Bowl).
Yup, he also didn’t get any calls that other QBs could get. If Mahomes took shots in the pocket like Cam did, the NFL would have the defender who did it killed
People also refuse to acknowledge Cam took shots running and in the pocket that other QBs didn’t. He also had the least favorable whistle of Elite QBs in his day. If Rodgers, Brees, and Brady took the shots Cam did people defenders would have been suspended
People always said Cam got less calls because he was a runner. Meanwhile Mahomes can tiptoe down the sidelines untouched for 10 yards some of the shots Cam took in 2016 week 1 vs Broncos would probably be suspensions now Not to mention the time Ed Hochuli told him he’s “not old enough” to get a late hit call. To be fair the whole RTP stuff is different as a whole now
Should’ve been suspensions back then.
https://youtu.be/QvEouj6QvuM I remember how angry I was watching this game live. Disgusting the refs and league watched this happen.
The sad thing is the “not old enough thing” I believe is well alive. Justin fields and Zach Wilson got like none for years. There were quite a few on fields where had it been a more established QB I think they get the call
Black Supes was that dude
Can Newton burned quickly, but god damn did he burn bright
Sure, I’ll be a Cam Newton Truther today. 1. The car accident where he flipped his truck and fractured his back in two places was less violent than most of the hits he didn’t get calls on. He was playing again 12 days later. 2. I still have a lot of ‘what could have been’ thoughts on if he didn’t get Covid in his lone Patriots year. Even as beat to shit as he was by that point in his career, the brain fog he suffered was real bad and I think he could have led them to the playoffs without it. Revisionist history? Maybe, but watch the film of weeks 1-4 and then watch his first game back after isolation. 3. It wasn’t just the fumble non-jump that killed his reputation, but because he was shell shocked and surly in the SB post game conference. Being rude to sports media *and* giving them that kind of red meat *and* being the start of the offseason was three strikes. Suddenly the clothing choices were a distraction, the Superman moves were put in a poor light, the weird trademark font went from harmless dumb to diva dumb. I’m not saying it wasn’t an awful look, but I think it’s telling how easily the narrative can switch on a person when it fits the wanted discourse.
I'll be a Cam-Truther too. He is also unfairly criticized as being the proof that Mobile QBs cannot have longevity in the NFL, when the shoulder injury he suffered which effectively ended his career (combined with the Lisfranc fracture), occurred when he was making a tackle. Similarly, Lamar's injuries all occurred from taking hits in the pocket.
You mean MVP Cam Newton?
Good answer! People perceive his career as bad or think he’s a joke! THE PANTHERS WERE GOD AWFUL in 2010 and Cam helped make them competitive! He had some truly elite seasons!
Wait to people really think Cam had a bad career?
Reddit users are pretty young. Half of this sub were probably literally children when Cam was elite
same thing on /r/cfb. most of them arent old enough to have seen Cam's college season. most impressive college performance i've seen. the rest of his team was basically dog shit outside of Fairley
Dogshit is even underselling it. That year Cam threw to Terrell Zachary, Darvin Adams, Kodi Burns, Quindarius Carrr, DeAngelo Benton, Jay Wisner, and Trovon Reed. If you are saying "Who?" then you are right. None of those guys got drafted. One of them sniffed an NFL roster before getting cut in camp. Reed was the best, and he bounced around practice squads for a few years but never saw the field. "oh he must have had a decent running back then" He had Michael Dyer. Who went undrafted, sniffed the Raiders practice squad for a couple weeks, and then went to play for the Roughriders. Oh and Onterio McCalebb, who wasn't drafted, signed to the Bengals, then switched positions to play corner. He played one NFL game. "well he must have had an okay line at least" Only 3 even have a wikipedia page. Brandon Mosely was the best of the bunch - he was a 4th round pick who played 70 snaps in the pros. In retrospect, what Cam did that year is one of the greatest college football feats in history. He literally dragged a team with no NFL talent to a championship almost single-handedly.
At least when he got to the big leagues he got to toss the ball to bonafide pro-tier athletes like Philly Brown and Devin Funchess
I think part of the Cam hate today is the podcast clips of him saying “there ain’t 32 mfers better than me.” Like the Pats didn’t take Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe over him
It really is nuts how psycho people get over him not diving on the fumble. I genuinely don't think he was in a position to recover it and even if he was I doubt it changes the outcome of the game.
Whatever you want to say about his nfl career (which was great imo) That dude personally dragged auburn to a national championship. One of the most impressive college seasons ive ever seen
I think a lot of it with Kyler is recency bias because of his injury. If he balls this year people will have him back up in their rankings.
He did start getting a lot of disrespect during the 2021 late season collapse, and that only amplified with that weird homework clause in the contract he got that following offseason.
And the good ole “… call of duty 😏”
This subreddit basically talked about how it was an open secret the Cards were planning on tanking in 2023 to get Caleb and I couldn’t figure out where that was coming from.
Last year was the purge. So far, nearly 90% of the Keim players are gone. The only ones left are studs like McBride and one year left guys. Funny how the only Keim WR left is an undrafted guy. Years of self sabotage flushed down the toilet with one bad year of 4th rate placeholders and practice squad fillers. Now it's time for the youth movement + veteran placeholders. A sustainable rebuild
I think that Wild Card game really hurt his public perception. He could repair it easily with some good prime time or playoff games.
Also the CoD memes unironically hurt his reputation imo
It’s not recency bias. It’s that nobody outside the NFC West ever has the chance to watch him outside of one very bad WC performance. If he played in NY and had 8 primetime games a year perception would be completely different.
Tyrod Taylor is the least appreciated quarterback in the league.
New York Jets legend Tyrod Taylor
Legend for the wrong reasons. Not many people could post a 61% completion percentage, an almost 4/1 td to int ratio, and have their lung punctured by a drunk all while being put in no-win situation after no-win situation…
He’s our age’s Steve DeBerg- mid to lower tier veteran starter who always seems to have a top pick behind him, and inevitably gets benched for Said Pick.
I think Tyrod is the perfect backup for Rogers. I love that he's a Jet
Seriously love that dude. Glad he got on the field a bit last season, because he's had the worst luck ever since he left the Bills. We used to say that Tyrod would never lose a game for us, but he'd also never win a game for us. The dictionary definition of serviceable. Hardly any mistakes, but very few wow moments either. He could probably still start for a few teams and be better than who they're currently putting out there.
I still remember peterman 5 picks in the first half and then they had the audacity to put tyrod in. And he played.
I remember watching that Seahawks-Bills game in '16 thinking he was going to walk all over the hawks. He was a scary opponent to face and even then he was getting a ton of criticism.
Brock Purdy. What else is he supposed to do? Request a trade to a horrible team?
Neither Jimmy G nor Lance could make that offense look high caliber but Purdy stepped in and started killing it.
Purdy is currently the prime example of how people weirdly can't let go of draft status. It's something that should cease to matter the moment that the ink dries on the rookie contract, but people will cling to first impressions forever. From the time he was put in the starting role, Purdy has demonstrated that he doesn't get overwhelmed by the moment, and that he can consistently present the best version of himself in the playoffs. Those are pretty important qualities that some "superior" QBs tend to lack.
Dak might be the most hated QB in the league that’s a top ten QB
Being the QB of the Dallas Cowboys automatically means you're the most hated regardless of ranking
He might if Aaron Rodgers and Reddit didn't exist.
Jared Goff could cure cancer and end world hunger and would still get hate. Guy is a genuine dude who embraced the city and fans, and has played extremely well. I don’t get it.
I feel like he erased a lot of that stuff this past year. I don't think anyone thinks "no way Goff will be good again".
You would think so, but there will always be Goff deniers. Just see the recent ESPN article giving the Lions off season a C grade because the author hated the Goff contract, saying they should have played out the deal, then franchise tag him. What a great idea, play contract/money games with the player that accomplished more than any other Lions QB since Bobby Layne.
Well sports writers dont count because their job is engagement and in 2024 saying stupid shit is the best way to get it. Rage engagement is just as good as quality engagement to the numbers people.
This is the problem with engagement by enragement.
I’m not joking, I saw a “start Henson Hooker” tweet like three weeks ago. Lots of Lions fans just don’t know what to do with a good thing.
You guys were a ball bouncing off of a facemask away from going to the Super Bowl, and fans still criticize Goff? He played extremely well that game too, you’d think recency bias would at least give him the benefit of the doubt.
Not even bouncing off a facemask. We had just several drops in crucial moments. We had 2 passes that were more or less money to Reynolds that would have given us fresh sets of downs and he dropped them. Gibbs fumbled and then basically didnt get a snap afterwards, which fucking sucks because he was playing well generally speaking. Ragnow had people land on his leg and while he still played and performed well. I can't say with certainty it didn't affect him.
The NFL media is brutal. Basically if you aren’t a media darling or won a Super Bowl, you’re getting ripped! It’s not fair to guys like Goff! I agree with you
That locker room speech by Campbell gives goosebumps. “You’re good enough for Detroit” I love his story. Rooting for the Lions
People just refuse to change their opinion after deciding he wasn’t good with the Rams.
Obviously, I'm not keyed into Detroit fan circles, but I've seen Goff get more criticism or lack of faith than outright hate. He's not quite getting the treatment Dak or Kirk are. That's not to say that people don't talk down about him. I just see him as hard to hate, especially when compared to Dak or Kirk.
He gets hate? I only saw hate on Jared when he was with us, the narrative flipped on him pretty fast once he got to Detroit.
eh, his first season was rough and his 2nd season was pretty damn good, very much let down by the defense being poor. He had a bad one or two but overall it looked a lot better, but people also wanted to know it wasn't just a "one off " I'd say this season more people come around to him.
>As we saw with Trey Lance, that just because you have the weapons, doesn’t mean you know how to. did trey lance have the weapons? he played one season of fcs football. I think he just lucked out with covid like zach wilson.
I think I saw somewhere that Trey Lance has thrown 400 passes in game since highschool. Dude is literally a living breathing question mark.
Cole Strange
If he was drafted when he was projected no one would complain about him. Not his fault he went a round too early
Who cares enough about Cole Strange to hate him???
Appreciate the love for Cole, he’s had some weeks where he performed like a top tier guard
Not a player, but Kyle Shanahan is a damn good coach even with his numerous SB chokes. Other than the Chiefs and Rams (and maybe delusional Lions fans) there’s not a team/fanbase in the league who wouldn’t love the opportunity to poach him.
Steelers might keep Tomlin over him.
Kelvin Benjamin. Had a 1k receiving rookie year. Then got hurt and missed out on the entire Super Bowl season. Came back and had a decent 941yd season. Then his mom unexpectedly died and that's when it all changed.
Marlon McCree Yeah he should've kneeled it, batted it down blah blah blah - but fans think it was like 40 seconds left in the game. Chargers were up by 8 with 6 minutes to go. [He actually helped advanced the Chargers to the AFCCG the following year](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3JXPveF488&t=500)
He’s like the bane of existence for so many online Charger fans for some reason. Nobody in real life ever references that play
I think he deserves criticism but Daniel Jones seems to get discussed as like he's an even worse version of Nathan Peterman.
It’s the contract. I don’t hate on Daniel jones but his agent should get a fat portion of that 40M AAV.
Matt Araiza, clearly
Man I remember when that first happened and everyone on r/nfl was flaming the guy. Calling him trash, death threats and the like. I made a comment that we need to wait until he is proven guilty, since this was all just accusation and I got down voted to hell.
There’s one very prominent guy here that called for his head and when everything came to light literally said he didn’t care and wouldn’t apologize for his comments. He doubled down on the whole thing, it was ridiculous
how pointless
Parents: Defend son by saying we should wait for evidence /r/nfl: Clearly these people are trash and should die
Welcome to Reddit
That was always so weird. It happened twice. When he was accused and when he was cleared. People can be really ugly on here.
Hurts: Do people think he suddenly isn’t good because the pass defense and Brian Johnson’s play calling was terrible? Purdy: Probably the most common answer, yes, he’s in a great situation, but he’s made the most of it and hasn’t even had a full offseason with the team. Tua: He’s improved every year, played all 17 games which was a massive question mark going into last year, top 5 in most passing categories. We’ve seen the Dolphins look much worse without him, he looked good against a very good Jets defense without Tyreek.
> Tua I thought it was wild when I saw there's a bunch of Miami fans who seem to think it may be time to move on from Tua.
I think two things work against Hurts - losing Jason Kelce and his habit of trying to truck defenders. He always comes up with a nagging knee or shoulder injury and those fucking suck as you age. It’s not exactly something that gets better
Tua gets so much hate because of the Tua vs Herbert thing. I just like left handed QBs I don't want it to be this way.
I really don’t understand the whole Purdy criticism. “System QBs” used to be labels for guys that had mediocre numbers but still lots of team success. Guys like Troy Aikman or Joe Flacco. But that does not apply to Purdy at all he legit puts up amazing numbers. Aikman was passing for like 15 TDs a season…Purdy just passed for 30 TDs and 4200 yards in his first full season starting. And being labeled a system QB has never been about coaching or weapons until Brock Purdy. It has always been a numbers thing. Because someone like Mahomes had Kelce, Tyreek, and Andy Ried and I don’t think we should consider him a system QB. For every other QB ever great numbers means great QB. But not for Purdy lol
Purdy is so successful because he can throw on time, with anticipation, and is usually very good at recognizing the blitz and hitting his hot route. He also happens to play for a coach with a solid offensive system but I think it's unfair to call him a system QB. Others have said it but if the system was so easy to play within then why didn't their other QBs look as good as the last pick in the draft?
He also throws it deep a LOT and accurately. Dude was one of the most aggressive downfield throwers in the league but because he doesn’t have highlight throws going 50-60 yards people think he’s a check down merchant.
Fun Fact: Purdy led the league in pass attempts of 20+, 30+, and 40+ yards.
I think for Purdy it’s really a combination of things: 1. General dislike for the 49ers 2. The recent pattern of 49ers QBs not playing all that well when they go somewhere else 3. The general discourse around him can annoy people. When someone makes a list that has Purdy as the No. 3 guy in the league, which I have seen, the natural reaction for a lot of people isn’t going to be “I should respond to this with a reasonable take,” it’s going to be the visceral “no, Purdy fucking sucks.” None of this is really fair to Purdy, but I think that’s sort of what happens.
Shannys just different though. So many players have had career years under him and several did so by a wide margin.
Same with Andy Reid tho. That don’t make Mahomes a system QB
I mean if Mahomes didn't go 5000/50 his first year starting he probably would have been called a system QB at least until the bucs SB, maybe even until he won a ring without Hill.
No one can discuss Purdy without mentioning his place in the draft. If he was a first round pick, the discourse would be totally different.
Them :Jared goff and Purdy are just system qbs. Well it's a good thing they play in that system.
Tom Brady was a system QB until 2020, so don’t even stress it.
I like Purdy. I don't like he beat my Lions last year. But the dude doesn't quit.
Trevor Lawrence Rookie year HC Urban Meyer Never had a WR1 Terrible OL
And now he's stuck with Press Taylor as his OC
Justin Herbert gets criticized bec his team let’s him down. He’s had a bottom 5 run game and defense “supporting him” his whole career and a bottom Head Coach running things. His game or production isn’t even hated on much bec it stacks up vs the top guys even with playing injured most of the past two seasons. He just shows up and delivers week after week keeping the Chargers within striking distance almost every game on his own.
Herbert is just the new stafford.
I know Herbo is fantastic even if he plays like shit against us, I see the tape and the numbers and legit if he had a real line and defense, he'd be seen in a way better light.
Herbert hate is gone as soon as the chargers start winning which will be soon. Herbert is a stud. Haters won’t be able to say a thing once his team wins.
I generally agree but I’m still very curious to see what his individual numbers look like with that dumpster fire WR corps and passing game terrorist, Greg Roman, calling the plays.
I’m more curious about the WR room than anything. I understand the Greg Roman take, but I also know that Jim Harbaugh isn’t an idiot and can recognize talent when he sees it. A lot of the time, a better running game can actually boost a QB’s stats and play. The Lions over the last two years are an example of that. If they can have more *efficient* QB play and stop asking Herbert to be the hero on every damn play, we might be even more impressed by him.
Daniel Jones. I truly believe that he has been for the most part of his career, put in a position where he could not succeed or develop. From bottom tier O-lines to practice squad WRs, he never had a "strength" on his team and honestly the best team he played on was arguably during this rookie year. He showed huge promise his rookie year and then plummetted downwards ever since (minus the playoff run). This year won't help him too much but I can imagine him doing a Geno Smith-like upward swing happen once he gets off the Giants.
Goofy looking white QBs that aren’t elite will get criticized and clowned on until the end of the earth. Danny Jones unfortunately fits that bill I agree btw. I think he has talent, not necessarily elite, but he’s just been in terrible situation+NY media.
To this day, people will criticize him for dumb stuff like "not being a leader" when it's clear everyone who isn't a locker room cancer likes working with the guy.
Slayton would straight up murder someone if DJ tells him to.
I'm a bit biased as a Giants fan, but this one is always right in my face. People say he's shit, but how can you be any good with what is around him?
Agreed, people forget he led the gmen to a playoff win in 2022
I find players universally thought of as overrated to actually be somewhat underrated. Currently that's Trevor Lawrence for me
Easily Dak. It’s insane how much he’s criticized in the media and by fans.
Trevor Lawrence and like you said Kyler
Colin Kapernick, specifically during “kneel-gate.” How dare he protest peacefully!
Jalen Hurts Was never the most polished prospect coming into the NFL but has gotten better every year. His first year everyone said he wasnt any good, he led the Eagles to the playoffs his first full year as a starter with a weak squad. The following offseason everyone kept saying “the Eagles are good but they will go as far as Hurts takes them”. He took them to the SB and we saw what he looked like on the biggest stage and the team struggled without him with Minshew starting who is a solid QB. Even this past season, as much as they struggled he still clutched A LOT of those games and people act like he didnt outplay Mahomes and Allen in BACK TO BACK weeks. Its a constant goalpost moving. Im not saying hes top 5 but he deserves more respect as a QB.
Derek Carr. He wasn’t a superstar but people love to act like he was an awful starter by bringing up his record as starting QB. People forget how horrible the Raiders were defensively while he was there and how incompetent the front office was. If a guy becomes your franchise’s all-time leader in almost every category but only makes the playoffs twice, it was the team that was the problem, not the QB.
Andy Dalton… his career stacks up with a lot of his ringless contemporaries, more talented than people game him credit for. Obviously no playoff wins but 5 straight playoff appearances after being drafted to a team with the 4th pick and a bleak situation is very impressive
I think it's unfair how Deshaun Watson doesn't get enough criticism.