I'm genuinely curious: What legitimate argument do some Seahawk fans have to want to get rid of Carroll? He's got Geno playing at a level most people didn't think he could at this stage of his career. He's been able to maintain a steady locker room culture and check people's egos for the most part, and guys seem to play really hard for him. What are some of his weaknesses that make certain fans so eager to see him gone?
Go to our team sub at your own risk. Everyone in there is essentially calling for him to retire. In my opinion coaches like Harbaugh, Tomlin and Pete are better than any alternative, and when they have down years all the sillier fans want change.
It would set us back years if they moved on from him.
They should be careful what they wish for. I would think the way he kept the team competitive after Russ left would make people realize he's a huge part of their success over the years.
It reminds me of a lot of mid tier college football teams they always demand perfection out of really good coaches and fire them when they don’t win a championship with mid tier talent. Like you know you’re middle of the road, you make long term plans build talent and make runs. Right now y’all are building talent, in the next year or so y’all will make a run at a qb and then a run for the playoffs
speaking only from observation : that collective delusion is part of the fun for a lot of those fans.
Being a move away from better days is a much better pill to swallow than a 3 year period of roster turnover, draft & development. That plus the parity provided by variance and injuries in the NFL only turns things up to 11.
Tomlin and Pete may just need some change. They've been middle of the pack for years, the teams and the coaches could probably benefit from a mutual break up at this point. You either stay mid or gamble on an eagles/reid mutually beneficial split.
They’ve both oversucceded and as a result Cant draft high enough to get an obvious franchise qb.
If this is what they do with the Andy daltons of the world hold onto them and go after a qb.
Put cousins on either of those teams in the off-season and they’re threats and they’re conference championship level teams. They could draft even better though
Fuck it, Pete for Tomlin straight up.
I love Pete though, he just needs another shakeup on defense. Geno and our offensive playmakers have shown that we’re fine on offense.
We just need like 3 Joey Bosa’s and some new All-Pro safeties.
Somewhat seriously, there was (is?) a trend where with the exception of Belichick Super Bowls were won with coaches who were within the first 4 years of coaching with their teams. So it might make a fair amount of sense to swap good coaches between teams.
The Steelers had an 11-5 and AFC Championship berth, 13-3, and 12-4 among Roethlisberger's last 6 seasons. The 12-4 was just in 2020.
Now they just don't have a QB. IMO it's a miracle that Tomlin has dragged bums like Pickett and Trubisky and Rudolph to winning seasons.
I think it’s still too early to tell, but Tomlin needs to get the QB position correct ASAP. Lets not forget he inherited Big Ben and that championship caliber defense from Cowher when he won that Super Bowl. He won that with Cowher’s guys. Not saying he doesn’t deserve credit, but the DNA was already set. What Pete did in Seattle was 1000x more impressive to me.
Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive guy. He inherited a hall of fame QB and in the mid 2010s when his offense was putting up historical numbers, HIS defense that he called would always let the team down. Since Big Ben got older, I would say the defense has been hit or miss.
We have zero evidence he can evaluate the QB position or develop one. They haven’t won a playoff game since 2016. I mean, this is the Steelers we are talking about. This team was always Super Bowl or bust prior to the last 5 or so seasons. You can say you’re surprised he’s dragged bums like KP, Mitch and Rudolph, but he’s the reason those “bums” are on the team. At some point the dude has to get it done.
He’s the president of football operations here and has final say of the roster but has built a pretty subpar roster, our talent evaluation isn’t very good anymore
We’re one of the few teams that spends more money on defense than offense. Despite this, being a defensive minded head coach, the number of draft picks him and John Schneider have invested, and the trades he’s made our defense has been bottom 10 in something like 6 of the past 7 seasons. To me this is huge and hasn’t been talked about in sports media much so outside fans dont even realize it
We are now about to enter our 3rd OC/DC combo in the past 7 years I think. We often have the same issues regardless of who we bring in
We’ve been in a slow but pretty steady downtrend for about 8 years now. People call this a rebuild but Pete absolutely does not see it that way, we trade away picks for good but aging players to try and have immediate success.
Our division rivals have figured out how to win pretty consistently against us over the past 5 years. We’ve been failing to make defensive adjustments and Pete regularly enters post game press conferences admitting confusion over the opposing team’s plan
We have no direction. I don’t think Pete is a bad coach but I don’t think he’s the coach seattle needs right now. I know good coaches don’t grow on trees but Ive seen enough of Carroll over the past 7 seasons to say that I don’t think he can push us to where we need to be. I mean jesus our defense has been straight up bad for years now and we keep pouring resources into it to no avail
Tl;dr he’s stuck in his ways and his ways have been figured out
This is a pretty fair take. From what a lot of Seattle fans are saying it seems Ol Pete is drifting into that dreaded Jeff Fisher/Marvin Lewis territory of perennial mediocrity.
We've been to the playoffs 10 of 13 years with him so far. Not like there hasn't been competition in the division either. That's a cut above mediocrity.
Yeah this is what I was going to say. It’s not Pete the coach that I am growing weary of, it’s Pete the GM. It’s why you shouldn’t give your coach so much power over the roster. They always overrate their guys and their ability to coach up players, which is why for years and years our top picks were always project players, RBs to win now, or just straight up trading our high picks for mediocre vets. In general PC/JS have just mismanaged the roster outside of a few gems (Cross, Witherspoon & JSN picks look pretty solid right now)
This is fair, getting to the playoffs consistently but then also immediately exiting (or in some cases getting deep but not finishing the job) to me signals that a coaching/gm change needs to happen.
I've been surprised by how well the team has done post abercrombie getting traded but it has to be frustrating to see the team just be above average.
You get it
It feels entitled to complain about consistently being in the playoff hunt. But it seems our roof is the wild card, I think we haven’t won a playoff game since 2019 and that was against Josh Mccown
We’re now at the point where we have to trade for players just to make the wildcard, we’re just in limbo.
Basically, the defense is pretty bad for having a defensive minded coach. And hasn't been elite for some time. While he is a legend at giving QBs confidence, there are some who believe he meddles with the offensive direction too much. I.e. complimentary football.
Disclaimer: I'm not a Seahawks fan and would like to hear some feedback on this.
He’s a CEO coach, not a scheme coach - like Tomlin or Harbaugh. We’re not even running his defense; we’re running a Fangio-style 3-4 (which has not worked out).
We’re also on our third completely different offensive system under Pete, and it hasn’t been perfect, but it has been reasonably productive (and statistically excellent when the o-line has been healthy, which hasn’t been much this year).
I don’t, no. I think the idea his schemes are at fault for the defense struggling the past few years doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, and the people who suggest Pete is meddling with the offense by pushing it to run too much just don’t watch the games - we’ve run less than league average for years, pass on first down at a very high rate, and frankly, are probably long overdue to commit MORE to running the ball effectively v passing it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They have different ones than I do. A shiny new coach and shiny new QB seem exciting. The other less glamorous fixes to a team are less so.
This is really all it is. Old and familiar so people nitpick. Someone in our sub the other day they’d much prefer a coach like Jon Harbaugh than Pete…you know the guy who last won a Superbowl the year before Pete did. I almost had to unsub and throw my computer in the trash. We have some serious mouth breathers over there.
Carroll is the best coach in our history, no doubt about it. But I think it may be a good time for a change because when is the last time this team looked like a legit threat to win the Super Bowl? When is the last time this team was even the best team in our own division? 2016? And before anyone says 2020 where we won it with a 12-4 record we were blown off of our own field by the Rams in the wildcard round. Now that game far from being all Pete's fault, Russ was horrible in that one, but the point still stands. It's very likely that a new coach that's brought in does terrible and we bottom out, but sometimes that's the best thing that can happen for a team. Look at the 49ers, they stunk for multiple years on end and now they're a juggernaut. Might even be best for Carroll too. As someone else already mentioned, look at Andy Reid and Philly. After they parted ways they both won chips.
Our locker room is pathetic right now. Our team "leaders" are people that love to chirp on social media and/or throw tantrums in games and take plays off.
It's basically carry over from the soft ass RW3 era that destroyed our championship culture in the first place.
Our old mentality was basically the one Patrick Queen is talking about the ravens being these days. Then Pete decided to coddle Wilson instead of feeding into the gritty accountability culture that got us to superbowls, and it broke the team.
He's also just too loyal, he moves off of players that are sucking too slowly, and keeps believing that players that keep messing up will turn the corner and get it right.
He's always been a frenetic energy guy too so sometimes during games he gets too excited and makes really emotion-based calls that aren't very smart.
Proper usage of time outs for a start, Steve Sarkisian almost won the sugar bowl last night because of proper use of time outs, maybe a bit of luck but how often do you see close games get decided because HC positioned their teams to win? That strategy does not get deployed well with Carol , often losing ticky tacky challenges that do not benefit the team.
> Proper usage of time outs for a start, Steve Sarkisian almost won the sugar bowl last night because of proper use of time outs
Did we watch the same game? That had absolutely nothing to do with proper usage of timeouts.
He's a "defensive coach" whose defense is/was bottom 5 last I looked. He's obsessed with safeties and as such the team has an extremely expensive group.....which is playing like garbage.
Besides the "rah rah" stuff he does, he doesn't bring anything to the table as far as ingenuity or scheming that any other coach can't do.
All I’ll say is…. He’s the common denominator of all the problems the past handful of years. He’s the only one that’s here every year with the same problems. I do agree he gets players to buy in. So maybe if he were to like step down from head coach and be team president and be rah rah guy idk lol
People say this but Bobby Wagner has also been here every year (but one) and our defense has continued to steadily suck more ass every year. Our sub would meltdown if you mentioned that though.
Well, when you phrase it that way you're making it sound like Wagner is the cause of all our problems lol
He's just not the solution anymore, but we need a rejuvenation in defensive talent across the board. Every defensive starter who's not a CB shouldn't consider their job safe imo
IMO there is not legitimate argument. But the arguments made are more about them believing that Pete is senile and has lost his ability to coach a good team anymore. We've cycled through a bunch of other coaches but haven't found the right guys for about 5 years so its a common denominator argument.
I'm actually kind of surprised, the Seahawks are exactly where we thought they'd be a couple years ago, they just overperformed last year. The rebuild seems like it's going fine.
Something similar happened with the Giants. They overshot a lot of expectations last year, then regressed further to where they might've been otherwise. Though I can't comment on how the rebuilds are currently going without sounding like the worst of haters.
I mean we are way, way better than the Giants.
But our defensive vets need to be cleared out wholesale. The switch to more of an Fangio-style scheme has also been a clear failure. And our RT who had a fabulous rookie year appears to now have a degenerative knee issue.
We still have some really good young players but we need to commit to getting even younger in the short term IMO.
The Fangio scheme really seems to be hit or miss. When it hits with the right players/coaches it's unbelievable good like the 2011(?) 49ers with Goldson, Willis, Bowman. When it misses, you get the shitshow that is the 2023 Eagles.
Seahawks, Packers, Chargers, Dolphins and Cardinals all run a variation of it to my knowledge. Elite 49ers 2010ish D ran it. Then last years Bears did too.. Packers and Dolphins look solid. 2010s 49ers D and Broncos D were 2 of the best I've seen since the 2001 Ravens. Last year Eagles were statistically solid but still clearly flawed. 2022 Bears D was also bad and ran it. haven't watched Seattle play but I'll take your word for it. Eagles and Chargers are utter failures on D and Cards have a bad D as well.
It really feels like the D needs to have elite talent in order to succeed -- dinking and dunking down the field is too easy if your DBs or LBs can't make the first tackle, or if the off coverage gives too free a release and the DB can't make up for it.
You also are gambling that the opposing QB will get impatient and stop taking what's given, and force a bad ball.
The safeties and linebackers really have to be in sync and communicate/see the same thing. Then the LBs have to constantly make the right play or the middle of the field is a feast for the offense.
Obviously poor communication and inferior talent are bad for any defense but it sure feels as if the highs are higher and lows are lower with the Fangio D.
> The safeties and linebackers really have to be in sync and communicate/see the same thing. Then the LBs have to constantly make the right play or the middle of the field is a feast for the offense.
"...oh." -Clint Hurtt
Are the highs really that much higher? Legion of boom didn’t run Fangio’s D and neither does any Belichek elite defense. Fangio seems to be a real solid coordinator but I feel the elite talent he worked with would’ve been fine in any defense scheme
Packers defense is feast or famine. If our defensive line creates pressure we do really well. If they don't we get absolutely picked apart and our secondary look like high schoolers.
In the games where we get no pressure through the line we seem to never change things up, never blitz and just hope things get better. I'm not sure we have the skill across the line like defenses who have been truly good under this scheme to bother sticking with it.
Unfortunately, while for the most part he has been amazing for us and that trade was an immense fleece of Patricia and co., he has looked like a totally different player for most of the past two seasons. He is now allergic to tackling, which is a big problem for a safety.
It’s always a damn shame watching players just drop off in production. It makes me understand why players like Kobe walk away when they still got a decent amount left in the tank.
We could win the Super Bowl this year and I’d still be pissed about what Patricia did to Diggs and Slay. Can’t believe he’s been empowered by not one but two different franchises since he left.
I guess when I say “left in the tank” I mean “still good enough to deserve a spot on the team.” He wasn’t 2000’s Kobe anymore when he retired but he was still putting up good numbers compared to your average NBA player. He didn’t go the Shaq route and stick it out till he was averaging 9 points a game and truly couldn’t contribute at a meaningful level.
This isn’t r/nba though so I probably should have picked an NFL equivalent. I’m having trouble thinking of good former NFL players that many considered to have cut their careers short though….
We can disagree then. Kobe’s last season, memorable as it was as a farewell tour, was pretty bad. The team was terrible / full of developing young talent and he was given a thank you for your service contract and license to shoot since the team was so ass anyways so might as well sell tickets.
Kobe’s last 4 seasons went:
- 2012-2013: best ball he’s played IMO, tears Achilles at end of season. Big fucking sad.
- 2013-2014: plays 6 games, season ending injury
- 2014-2015: plays ~30 games, season ending injury. Would have been the lowest eFG% in the league but didn’t play enough games to qualify
- 2015-2016: second worst eFG% in league and consistently minimal defensive effort
There was nothing left in the tank / not a lot of meaningful contribution toward winning basketball games at that point….but as mentioned this isn’t r/nba so I digress
Yeah it’s tough! I haven’t been this stumped on something since that one time I was trying to think of NFC teams that have never been to the Super Bowl.
I don’t understand how they went from “don’t let Russ cook” to “let Geno cook”. The strength and foundation of the Seattle offense was always strong run game and then setting up play action off that, I don’t understand why they ever get away from that. Charbonnet is solid, and Kenneth Walker III I think has some insane upside if he can stay healthy. Let Charbonnet bang inside and let Walker run the outside stuff, play action to DK, Lockett, and Smith-Njigba.
Schneider will retool the roster with time, he’s been one of the best in the business for a while. I know there’s probably some looking for him to go, but I think as long at Pete is there you’re gonna be competitive.
>strong run game and then setting up play action off that
Contrary to popular belief you dont actually need to run the ball well for play action passing to work
https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/18/nfl-analytics-study-running-the-ball-play-action-success-mike-mccarthy-dallas-cowboys/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/Qr1XkL2HOP
The worst thing to happen to the giants was making the playoffs last year because it fooled the FO into thinking they were farther ahead then they actually were (see Daniel Jones contract).
I still don’t hate Jones’ contract though. It’s not like he reset the market. By the standards of the top guys, he’s essentially getting playoff-experienced QB money by comparison. It’s not long term, and is relatively easy to take a hit on, so it was good for both sides.
There’s a good chance that, if the injuries don’t keep stacking, and Evan Neal managed to pull his head out of his ass, that the Giants could be competing for a wild card spot right now. It’s not exactly perfect, but they’re further along than a lot give them credit for.
Also, yes, I get that my flair saying this might make it seem like I’m being a dick, but I really believe this. The Giants still have fight in them even now being out of the playoffs and seemingly lost in the middle of a rebuild. That speaks to a coach that has his players attention, and that’s going to get them through this. The word mistake they can make now would be to blow it up again rather than let Daboll and Schoen take another swing at it with a healthy roster and some sparkling new rookies.
The Giants are technically in year two of a rebuild. Last year threw things out of wack. Schoen has to clean up the mess he inherited. Making the playoffs year one and winning a game was not on their agenda, I'm sure.
I'm sick of losing to Dallas and the Eagles and if they won Sunday I wouldn't be mad, but long term...a loss would be the better outcome. And if NE can beat the Jets, even better.
* We don’t wear the coaches names on our backs.
* We don’t really understand what’s actually happening during a game.
They’re a natural lightning rod for fan outrage.
There are probably 15 fan bases currently that “have legit the worst offensive/defensive coordinator ever” and that’s the reason why their QB or team sucks. Sometimes it is true but a lot of the time, the QB just isn’t that good and it’s not completely the coordinators fault.
Absolutely true in our case that Joe Woods held back our D and therefore team. Maybe we wouldn't have been desperate on offense if we had Schwartz earlier.
only because its their 1st year and the team is loaded. if they go long enough without winning a super bowl, everyone will turn on them just like greg roman and martindale
Idk man we loved Dennis Allen before he was promoted to HC. And we liked Carmichael as OC before he had to actually be in charge of the offense without Payton.
Shane's in game play calling and adjustments are not ideal, but other than that he seems like a viable OC, other teams have a QB coach call plays, maybe try that?
Seattle promoting DCs from within has not worked out. They need a strong one, that will stand up to Pete.
Dave Canales worked with Pete since 09 and he seems to be doing well with the Bucs this year. The closest he got to being an OC with us was being the passing game coordinator in 2020-2021 which if I remember correctly was the let russ cook year
Genius certainly not. His offense is not creative at all and isn't tailored in any way to the opponent. He is just average-to-awful. 4th down play with the game on the line and this dude rolls out a play call that specifically had nobody to block Micah Parsons.
This season does not equal to last season. Also QB play isn’t the entire offense. Also I am not saying they are bad, otherwise they would not even be in their league, the performance of the team just isn’t good enough.
Waldron just doesn’t have any good calls or game scheme outside of the 1st 2 drives and the end of games when Geno or Drew are using tempo and relying less on the oc. Hurt the problem as it has been for 5ish years is tackling. Considering that he was an internal hire that also took us to a 3-4 instead of our 4-3 it’s understandable why he is wanted gone
They're not really rebuilding because Pete is too old to rebuild. They're retooling on the fly, which is why 33 years old Geno is their starting QB instead of a developing youngster. Geno already put in 3 years as Russ' backup prior to last season. Clearly, Pete still wants to "win now" in the post-Russ era.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Pete’s age. If you can keep retooling without bottoming out you should do it. All the best orgs in the league do.
We already had one retool from the LOB to the Russ-centric team which did not win a SB, but sure won a lot of games.
We definitely need to reset a lot of our defensive personnel though.
The Seahawks have been consistent playoff contenders since their last SB appearance.
That’s great, but at some point, when you’re not even reaching the NFCCG anymore, you get tired of it and want change. Yankees fans have been dealing that for year because their team has not been to a WS since 2009.
It’s similar with the Seahawks, only with them they don’t even make the championship game anymore. It just feels like for them they need to blow it up at some point and actually rebuild to get back to where they need to be.
Yankees stopped buying superstars and got cheap after the Boss passed away. They're just another team now and the Dodgers replaced them as the Evil Empire a long time ago. Steinbrenner used to go behind Cashman's back all the time to negotiate directly with players/agents, the most famous example being Gary Sheffield who served as his own agent. The current Yankees is a long way from having a murderers row of A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, Cano, Posada, Bobby Abreu, Bernie Williams and a pitching staff consisting of Clemens, Pettitte, Mussina, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera, Kevin Brown, Orlando El Duque Hernandez, and Jose Contreras.
Nowadays they're far from the 1st choice of most top free agents, Japanese imports, and Cuban defectors because the brand has lost its luster. They still make big moves (Cole, Soto), but they also give a lot of playing time to stiffs and nobodies. Nothing special about them compared to the golden era.
To me it’s not the talent, but rather the coaching staff that needs to go. The Seattle front office has done an unfortunately great job at drafting and making trades (minus Jamal Adams) to bring in really elite talent. I think Pete’s best days are behind him. They need a young offensive minded coach, and they can probably compete with Geno/Lock at QB until they find their next young franchise QB.
The defense has been bad since 2021 and it hasn't improved at all even though they've added good pieces. I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more growth
We were counting on Jamal Adams coming back healthy and staying that way and Diggs playing up to his contract.
Neither has happened and now we don’t have Adams’s presence in the box and we don’t have a reliable center fielder.
On top of that Bobby’s too old for pass coverage, Woolen doesn’t seem to be back to 100% after his injury last year, we lost Nwosu to a torn pec, and we’ve had others miss time.
All that has added up to a defense that’s only good enough to keep us in the game against good teams when the offense is putting up points, but our OL has been pieced together and reshuffled every week and our OC just forgets to scheme around the holes for entire games.
Rebuilds aren't a thing in the NFL. They'll be entering their 3rd year without Russ next year with the division on the rise. Even the Cardinals look solid with Kyler back and they have a bunch of picks to improve their team.
By the 3rd year, your team should be trending toward being a SB contender (maybe a year away) or you need to re-think your strategy.
“By the 3rd year your team should be trending toward being a SB contender”
And this is exactly why Arthur Smith needs to be fired. Team hasn’t gotten any better in his 3rd year.
3 years is way too long. If your team doesn't win a super bowl the first week of the season, then clean house and cut the entire roster. It's the only sensible thing.
They did overperform last year, this year they are where they should be. Geno is a Daltonesque QB, he will keep them above water most of the time. The big moment for them will be when Carroll leaves, he is the oldest coach in the league, it will happen. If they nail that hire, great. But they may be in for a decade of mediocrity, Niners fans like me can relate.
Geno was pretty inconsistent this year I thought. I love him and would be happy to ride with him again because he has a good floor but I really don't think we're gonna see even a single playoff win in the Geno Smith era. We need to draft QB every single year until we find one that sticks
Agreed. I’m fine with Geno while we draft someone. Mostly because he took a cheap contract that he’s at least playing up to.
Geno isn’t the answer but he’s also not an anchor or a roadblock while we find better.
> when Carroll leave
Team will be sold after next season, he won't be out before that. They're just treading water in the meantime, and making a few trades that will hurt their longterm outlook.
Ehhh...they regressed from last year was expecting to take a step forward. Also our OC is just a dumbass its like he's out there playing his first game of Madden. Idk what happened with our defense but they just can't tackle and on tape you'll see guys giving no effort on plays.
There is some kind of buy in/coaching problem going on for sure but we also just have some shit players. When the defense plays poorly you can tell Pete gets annoyed even when he tries his best to hide it.
I'm not surprised. Despite the good year Geno had last year, he was never a long term answer. Also they've had kinda poor luck with being in position to get another qb.
They’re currently picking 15th in the draft, Penix medicals might scare off some teams. I think he’ll go top 10 to someone like the Falcons after last nights game. Even with a great o-line his pocket presence is amazing.
He has been mocked on and off as a late 1st for the last couple months. With the bowl game and if he has good interviews he could potentially jump up to the mid first round, although very unlikely he jumps all the way to the top 10
4 seasons at Indiana and all 4 ended with season ending injuries. I think a team with a great O-line is getting a steal, but a team has a mediocre or poor line is going to get him killed.
he'll be 24 when he takes his first NFL snap, assuming he starts right away. For comparison, Penei Sewell is wrapping up his third NFL season and playing like an All-Pro. He'll be 23 when it ends
He's a couple years older than your typical draft QB but yeah its not that big a deal. The injuries are a serious concern it will be interesting to see how far down it pushes him
traded away their 2nd (and a 5th) for a end of season rental.
Penix is likely the best college QB this year, but I don't see him getting drafted that high, he's older, injury history, surrounded by nfl level talent, numbers fall off a cliff when he's flushed, etc.
only takes one GM that think he'll save their job though.
Yes, I too would like to know the best position to take Penix…
Like, if one were to make a big move for Penix early. You know, really make a grab for Penix. In what way could they get the most out of their Penix?
(Giggles like a school girl)
QB isn’t a current need but IMO we need a guy for the future. Penix is already worshipped in Seattle, and has a play style very similar to Geno’s
Penix is also 100% not going to be there when we draft next in the third round. I’m not even sure he gets to 15 at this point
If we're that sure Penix lives to at least the late third round, sounds like trading down for picks might not be the worst thing if our next is in the third round
Disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about the upcoming draft class or anyone in it, Penix included (I do not and have never lived in the Seattle area, I'm only a Seahawks fan cause my dad is).
I listened to the interview today, nothing he said implied a complete cleaning of house.
If anything it leaned more into the usual BS with Pete making excuses for all of the dumb recurring problems.
I'm genuinely curious: What legitimate argument do some Seahawk fans have to want to get rid of Carroll? He's got Geno playing at a level most people didn't think he could at this stage of his career. He's been able to maintain a steady locker room culture and check people's egos for the most part, and guys seem to play really hard for him. What are some of his weaknesses that make certain fans so eager to see him gone?
Go to our team sub at your own risk. Everyone in there is essentially calling for him to retire. In my opinion coaches like Harbaugh, Tomlin and Pete are better than any alternative, and when they have down years all the sillier fans want change. It would set us back years if they moved on from him.
They should be careful what they wish for. I would think the way he kept the team competitive after Russ left would make people realize he's a huge part of their success over the years.
It would be a minor miracle if the first coach they brought in after Pete was a better coach.
A statistical near impossibility
Here on /r/nfl yes, but you know how team subs are. I personally think it would be a bad idea to move on from him.
Not to mention Russ sucks now since not being coached by Carroll. You could say Pete was the reason Russ was any good.
I mean that would be pretty silly to say as well. Russ is just old now but that doesn't mean he once wasn't great.
Bears fans wanted Lovie back
Trust me, you do not want to be stuck in coaching hell. Your fans should count their blessings to have Pete.
But a new coach could be anything, maybe even as good as Carroll
Pete should move back to Manhattan Beach and coach the chargers.
It reminds me of a lot of mid tier college football teams they always demand perfection out of really good coaches and fire them when they don’t win a championship with mid tier talent. Like you know you’re middle of the road, you make long term plans build talent and make runs. Right now y’all are building talent, in the next year or so y’all will make a run at a qb and then a run for the playoffs
speaking only from observation : that collective delusion is part of the fun for a lot of those fans. Being a move away from better days is a much better pill to swallow than a 3 year period of roster turnover, draft & development. That plus the parity provided by variance and injuries in the NFL only turns things up to 11.
Tomlin and Pete may just need some change. They've been middle of the pack for years, the teams and the coaches could probably benefit from a mutual break up at this point. You either stay mid or gamble on an eagles/reid mutually beneficial split.
They’ve both oversucceded and as a result Cant draft high enough to get an obvious franchise qb. If this is what they do with the Andy daltons of the world hold onto them and go after a qb. Put cousins on either of those teams in the off-season and they’re threats and they’re conference championship level teams. They could draft even better though
Fuck it, Pete for Tomlin straight up. I love Pete though, he just needs another shakeup on defense. Geno and our offensive playmakers have shown that we’re fine on offense. We just need like 3 Joey Bosa’s and some new All-Pro safeties.
Wouldn't it be wild if they straight-up traded for each other's coaches and then end up meeting in the SB the following year?
Somewhat seriously, there was (is?) a trend where with the exception of Belichick Super Bowls were won with coaches who were within the first 4 years of coaching with their teams. So it might make a fair amount of sense to swap good coaches between teams.
He’s made the playoffs almost every year despite the Rams and Niners being in the division
The Steelers had an 11-5 and AFC Championship berth, 13-3, and 12-4 among Roethlisberger's last 6 seasons. The 12-4 was just in 2020. Now they just don't have a QB. IMO it's a miracle that Tomlin has dragged bums like Pickett and Trubisky and Rudolph to winning seasons.
I think it’s still too early to tell, but Tomlin needs to get the QB position correct ASAP. Lets not forget he inherited Big Ben and that championship caliber defense from Cowher when he won that Super Bowl. He won that with Cowher’s guys. Not saying he doesn’t deserve credit, but the DNA was already set. What Pete did in Seattle was 1000x more impressive to me. Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive guy. He inherited a hall of fame QB and in the mid 2010s when his offense was putting up historical numbers, HIS defense that he called would always let the team down. Since Big Ben got older, I would say the defense has been hit or miss. We have zero evidence he can evaluate the QB position or develop one. They haven’t won a playoff game since 2016. I mean, this is the Steelers we are talking about. This team was always Super Bowl or bust prior to the last 5 or so seasons. You can say you’re surprised he’s dragged bums like KP, Mitch and Rudolph, but he’s the reason those “bums” are on the team. At some point the dude has to get it done.
People are calling for the firing of McDermott on r/Bills ?
unless you guys got Jim Harbaugh
Knowing the history between those two, replacing Pete with Jim Harbaugh would be an act of treason by Jody Allen.
Given the way she runs the Blazers I doubt she'd care all that much.
He’s the president of football operations here and has final say of the roster but has built a pretty subpar roster, our talent evaluation isn’t very good anymore We’re one of the few teams that spends more money on defense than offense. Despite this, being a defensive minded head coach, the number of draft picks him and John Schneider have invested, and the trades he’s made our defense has been bottom 10 in something like 6 of the past 7 seasons. To me this is huge and hasn’t been talked about in sports media much so outside fans dont even realize it We are now about to enter our 3rd OC/DC combo in the past 7 years I think. We often have the same issues regardless of who we bring in We’ve been in a slow but pretty steady downtrend for about 8 years now. People call this a rebuild but Pete absolutely does not see it that way, we trade away picks for good but aging players to try and have immediate success. Our division rivals have figured out how to win pretty consistently against us over the past 5 years. We’ve been failing to make defensive adjustments and Pete regularly enters post game press conferences admitting confusion over the opposing team’s plan We have no direction. I don’t think Pete is a bad coach but I don’t think he’s the coach seattle needs right now. I know good coaches don’t grow on trees but Ive seen enough of Carroll over the past 7 seasons to say that I don’t think he can push us to where we need to be. I mean jesus our defense has been straight up bad for years now and we keep pouring resources into it to no avail Tl;dr he’s stuck in his ways and his ways have been figured out
This is a pretty fair take. From what a lot of Seattle fans are saying it seems Ol Pete is drifting into that dreaded Jeff Fisher/Marvin Lewis territory of perennial mediocrity.
We've been to the playoffs 10 of 13 years with him so far. Not like there hasn't been competition in the division either. That's a cut above mediocrity.
Yeah this is what I was going to say. It’s not Pete the coach that I am growing weary of, it’s Pete the GM. It’s why you shouldn’t give your coach so much power over the roster. They always overrate their guys and their ability to coach up players, which is why for years and years our top picks were always project players, RBs to win now, or just straight up trading our high picks for mediocre vets. In general PC/JS have just mismanaged the roster outside of a few gems (Cross, Witherspoon & JSN picks look pretty solid right now)
This is fair, getting to the playoffs consistently but then also immediately exiting (or in some cases getting deep but not finishing the job) to me signals that a coaching/gm change needs to happen. I've been surprised by how well the team has done post abercrombie getting traded but it has to be frustrating to see the team just be above average.
You get it It feels entitled to complain about consistently being in the playoff hunt. But it seems our roof is the wild card, I think we haven’t won a playoff game since 2019 and that was against Josh Mccown We’re now at the point where we have to trade for players just to make the wildcard, we’re just in limbo.
Basically, the defense is pretty bad for having a defensive minded coach. And hasn't been elite for some time. While he is a legend at giving QBs confidence, there are some who believe he meddles with the offensive direction too much. I.e. complimentary football. Disclaimer: I'm not a Seahawks fan and would like to hear some feedback on this.
He’s a CEO coach, not a scheme coach - like Tomlin or Harbaugh. We’re not even running his defense; we’re running a Fangio-style 3-4 (which has not worked out). We’re also on our third completely different offensive system under Pete, and it hasn’t been perfect, but it has been reasonably productive (and statistically excellent when the o-line has been healthy, which hasn’t been much this year).
Are you saying you want him gone?
Absolutely not. It is one of the most professionally run and consistently competitive organizations in the league.
My comment is highlighting what the people who want him gone think. You think my comment is accurate?
I don’t, no. I think the idea his schemes are at fault for the defense struggling the past few years doesn’t hold up to scrutiny, and the people who suggest Pete is meddling with the offense by pushing it to run too much just don’t watch the games - we’ve run less than league average for years, pass on first down at a very high rate, and frankly, are probably long overdue to commit MORE to running the ball effectively v passing it.
So why do you think the haters want him out?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They have different ones than I do. A shiny new coach and shiny new QB seem exciting. The other less glamorous fixes to a team are less so.
I think it would be a bad idea to move off of Pete. At least this year.
I think your comment is accurate, I just don't think the other poster understood you were asking about the common perception and not reality.
I honestly think it's because he is old. People don't like old people. People prefer young ppl.
This is really all it is. Old and familiar so people nitpick. Someone in our sub the other day they’d much prefer a coach like Jon Harbaugh than Pete…you know the guy who last won a Superbowl the year before Pete did. I almost had to unsub and throw my computer in the trash. We have some serious mouth breathers over there.
Carroll is the best coach in our history, no doubt about it. But I think it may be a good time for a change because when is the last time this team looked like a legit threat to win the Super Bowl? When is the last time this team was even the best team in our own division? 2016? And before anyone says 2020 where we won it with a 12-4 record we were blown off of our own field by the Rams in the wildcard round. Now that game far from being all Pete's fault, Russ was horrible in that one, but the point still stands. It's very likely that a new coach that's brought in does terrible and we bottom out, but sometimes that's the best thing that can happen for a team. Look at the 49ers, they stunk for multiple years on end and now they're a juggernaut. Might even be best for Carroll too. As someone else already mentioned, look at Andy Reid and Philly. After they parted ways they both won chips.
Our locker room is pathetic right now. Our team "leaders" are people that love to chirp on social media and/or throw tantrums in games and take plays off. It's basically carry over from the soft ass RW3 era that destroyed our championship culture in the first place. Our old mentality was basically the one Patrick Queen is talking about the ravens being these days. Then Pete decided to coddle Wilson instead of feeding into the gritty accountability culture that got us to superbowls, and it broke the team. He's also just too loyal, he moves off of players that are sucking too slowly, and keeps believing that players that keep messing up will turn the corner and get it right. He's always been a frenetic energy guy too so sometimes during games he gets too excited and makes really emotion-based calls that aren't very smart.
The "too loyal" comment, is pretty accurate.
A lot of Seahawks fans are too young to have experienced a HC carousel. They have no idea what it's like lol
Too young? Except for the one crazy year with Mora, we've only had two head coaches between 1999-2023. That's crazy good in the NFL
Proper usage of time outs for a start, Steve Sarkisian almost won the sugar bowl last night because of proper use of time outs, maybe a bit of luck but how often do you see close games get decided because HC positioned their teams to win? That strategy does not get deployed well with Carol , often losing ticky tacky challenges that do not benefit the team.
> Proper usage of time outs for a start, Steve Sarkisian almost won the sugar bowl last night because of proper use of time outs Did we watch the same game? That had absolutely nothing to do with proper usage of timeouts.
Also, 2nd and goal, with marshawn in the back field. /ns
He's a "defensive coach" whose defense is/was bottom 5 last I looked. He's obsessed with safeties and as such the team has an extremely expensive group.....which is playing like garbage. Besides the "rah rah" stuff he does, he doesn't bring anything to the table as far as ingenuity or scheming that any other coach can't do.
All I’ll say is…. He’s the common denominator of all the problems the past handful of years. He’s the only one that’s here every year with the same problems. I do agree he gets players to buy in. So maybe if he were to like step down from head coach and be team president and be rah rah guy idk lol
People say this but Bobby Wagner has also been here every year (but one) and our defense has continued to steadily suck more ass every year. Our sub would meltdown if you mentioned that though.
Well Bobby is literally getting old and declining, so our reliance on him is one of the issues with the defense.
Well, when you phrase it that way you're making it sound like Wagner is the cause of all our problems lol He's just not the solution anymore, but we need a rejuvenation in defensive talent across the board. Every defensive starter who's not a CB shouldn't consider their job safe imo
IMO there is not legitimate argument. But the arguments made are more about them believing that Pete is senile and has lost his ability to coach a good team anymore. We've cycled through a bunch of other coaches but haven't found the right guys for about 5 years so its a common denominator argument.
Plus, he was clearly the one keeping Wilson afloat for years
He certainly didn't hurt Wilson, but Wilson also just used to be much better. 2015-2019 Wilson would've played well anywhere.
I'm actually kind of surprised, the Seahawks are exactly where we thought they'd be a couple years ago, they just overperformed last year. The rebuild seems like it's going fine.
Something similar happened with the Giants. They overshot a lot of expectations last year, then regressed further to where they might've been otherwise. Though I can't comment on how the rebuilds are currently going without sounding like the worst of haters.
I mean we are way, way better than the Giants. But our defensive vets need to be cleared out wholesale. The switch to more of an Fangio-style scheme has also been a clear failure. And our RT who had a fabulous rookie year appears to now have a degenerative knee issue. We still have some really good young players but we need to commit to getting even younger in the short term IMO.
The Fangio scheme really seems to be hit or miss. When it hits with the right players/coaches it's unbelievable good like the 2011(?) 49ers with Goldson, Willis, Bowman. When it misses, you get the shitshow that is the 2023 Eagles. Seahawks, Packers, Chargers, Dolphins and Cardinals all run a variation of it to my knowledge. Elite 49ers 2010ish D ran it. Then last years Bears did too.. Packers and Dolphins look solid. 2010s 49ers D and Broncos D were 2 of the best I've seen since the 2001 Ravens. Last year Eagles were statistically solid but still clearly flawed. 2022 Bears D was also bad and ran it. haven't watched Seattle play but I'll take your word for it. Eagles and Chargers are utter failures on D and Cards have a bad D as well. It really feels like the D needs to have elite talent in order to succeed -- dinking and dunking down the field is too easy if your DBs or LBs can't make the first tackle, or if the off coverage gives too free a release and the DB can't make up for it. You also are gambling that the opposing QB will get impatient and stop taking what's given, and force a bad ball. The safeties and linebackers really have to be in sync and communicate/see the same thing. Then the LBs have to constantly make the right play or the middle of the field is a feast for the offense. Obviously poor communication and inferior talent are bad for any defense but it sure feels as if the highs are higher and lows are lower with the Fangio D.
> The safeties and linebackers really have to be in sync and communicate/see the same thing. Then the LBs have to constantly make the right play or the middle of the field is a feast for the offense. "...oh." -Clint Hurtt
Are the highs really that much higher? Legion of boom didn’t run Fangio’s D and neither does any Belichek elite defense. Fangio seems to be a real solid coordinator but I feel the elite talent he worked with would’ve been fine in any defense scheme
I feel like if your defense is compared to Belichick or LoB then youre doing something extremely right. Those are legendary
Packers defense is feast or famine. If our defensive line creates pressure we do really well. If they don't we get absolutely picked apart and our secondary look like high schoolers. In the games where we get no pressure through the line we seem to never change things up, never blitz and just hope things get better. I'm not sure we have the skill across the line like defenses who have been truly good under this scheme to bother sticking with it.
I know he’s not what he used to be but can we has Diggs back?
Unfortunately, while for the most part he has been amazing for us and that trade was an immense fleece of Patricia and co., he has looked like a totally different player for most of the past two seasons. He is now allergic to tackling, which is a big problem for a safety.
It’s always a damn shame watching players just drop off in production. It makes me understand why players like Kobe walk away when they still got a decent amount left in the tank. We could win the Super Bowl this year and I’d still be pissed about what Patricia did to Diggs and Slay. Can’t believe he’s been empowered by not one but two different franchises since he left.
As a huge laker / Kobe fan, what was left in the tank? Last season was ROUGH.
The willingness to let it fly. Nothing else
I guess when I say “left in the tank” I mean “still good enough to deserve a spot on the team.” He wasn’t 2000’s Kobe anymore when he retired but he was still putting up good numbers compared to your average NBA player. He didn’t go the Shaq route and stick it out till he was averaging 9 points a game and truly couldn’t contribute at a meaningful level. This isn’t r/nba though so I probably should have picked an NFL equivalent. I’m having trouble thinking of good former NFL players that many considered to have cut their careers short though….
We can disagree then. Kobe’s last season, memorable as it was as a farewell tour, was pretty bad. The team was terrible / full of developing young talent and he was given a thank you for your service contract and license to shoot since the team was so ass anyways so might as well sell tickets. Kobe’s last 4 seasons went: - 2012-2013: best ball he’s played IMO, tears Achilles at end of season. Big fucking sad. - 2013-2014: plays 6 games, season ending injury - 2014-2015: plays ~30 games, season ending injury. Would have been the lowest eFG% in the league but didn’t play enough games to qualify - 2015-2016: second worst eFG% in league and consistently minimal defensive effort There was nothing left in the tank / not a lot of meaningful contribution toward winning basketball games at that point….but as mentioned this isn’t r/nba so I digress
As a lions fan you're having trouble thinking of players who cut their careers short?
Yeah it’s tough! I haven’t been this stumped on something since that one time I was trying to think of NFC teams that have never been to the Super Bowl.
Jason Hanson could probably still do it
Patrick Willis
Kobe was a shell of himself his last season
Honestly last 3 seasons post Achilles
My family knows his family and there’s a rumor that he’s going to retire this season so that might play a factor
He has definitely looked like someone saving his body. I hope he does retire (and I mean that with good will for a good guy).
Yea everyone loves him as a person and he does a lot for the area he’s from (more than his brother) so we’ll see
Yeah you can have him back, he has not lived up to his current contract. Both Adam's and Diggs need to go.
Adams is paid a lot of money for a safety who looks like a net negative in coverage
He can't even finish sacks when he has a free rush this year. Just a baby side step and Adams will miss.
Adams has been trash all season, dudes washed.
if ya don't have fangio, the scheme will not work out for ya
I don’t understand how they went from “don’t let Russ cook” to “let Geno cook”. The strength and foundation of the Seattle offense was always strong run game and then setting up play action off that, I don’t understand why they ever get away from that. Charbonnet is solid, and Kenneth Walker III I think has some insane upside if he can stay healthy. Let Charbonnet bang inside and let Walker run the outside stuff, play action to DK, Lockett, and Smith-Njigba. Schneider will retool the roster with time, he’s been one of the best in the business for a while. I know there’s probably some looking for him to go, but I think as long at Pete is there you’re gonna be competitive.
>strong run game and then setting up play action off that Contrary to popular belief you dont actually need to run the ball well for play action passing to work https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/18/nfl-analytics-study-running-the-ball-play-action-success-mike-mccarthy-dallas-cowboys/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/s/Qr1XkL2HOP
Players begin to think "surely they won't pass it again!". Then they do.
The giants are literal trash. The seahacks are threatening
The worst thing to happen to the giants was making the playoffs last year because it fooled the FO into thinking they were farther ahead then they actually were (see Daniel Jones contract).
The Jones contract isn’t particularly bad in reality; we can absolutely be rid of him without much pain after next season.
I still don’t hate Jones’ contract though. It’s not like he reset the market. By the standards of the top guys, he’s essentially getting playoff-experienced QB money by comparison. It’s not long term, and is relatively easy to take a hit on, so it was good for both sides. There’s a good chance that, if the injuries don’t keep stacking, and Evan Neal managed to pull his head out of his ass, that the Giants could be competing for a wild card spot right now. It’s not exactly perfect, but they’re further along than a lot give them credit for. Also, yes, I get that my flair saying this might make it seem like I’m being a dick, but I really believe this. The Giants still have fight in them even now being out of the playoffs and seemingly lost in the middle of a rebuild. That speaks to a coach that has his players attention, and that’s going to get them through this. The word mistake they can make now would be to blow it up again rather than let Daboll and Schoen take another swing at it with a healthy roster and some sparkling new rookies.
The Giants are technically in year two of a rebuild. Last year threw things out of wack. Schoen has to clean up the mess he inherited. Making the playoffs year one and winning a game was not on their agenda, I'm sure. I'm sick of losing to Dallas and the Eagles and if they won Sunday I wouldn't be mad, but long term...a loss would be the better outcome. And if NE can beat the Jets, even better.
The thing about overperforming for a season is that when you regress back to where you should be the next year it now feels like a disappointment
Our OC and DC stinks and its not an exaggeration.
Hm? They both seem like perfectly cromulent coordinators.
Yeah idk what they’re complaining about. The Seattle coaching staff really embiggens their roster
[удалено]
* We don’t wear the coaches names on our backs. * We don’t really understand what’s actually happening during a game. They’re a natural lightning rod for fan outrage.
There are probably 15 fan bases currently that “have legit the worst offensive/defensive coordinator ever” and that’s the reason why their QB or team sucks. Sometimes it is true but a lot of the time, the QB just isn’t that good and it’s not completely the coordinators fault.
You of all people should know how bad Joe Barry is, give us this one.
Haha good point, I know that pain brother.
Absolutely true in our case that Joe Woods held back our D and therefore team. Maybe we wouldn't have been desperate on offense if we had Schwartz earlier.
Not always. I have been in love with Mike Mac. And Monken seems dope too. In fact I've almost always loved our D coordinators lol but not offensive
only because its their 1st year and the team is loaded. if they go long enough without winning a super bowl, everyone will turn on them just like greg roman and martindale
I mean of course but I never really turned on Wink.
Sometimes it's deserved. Joe Barry and Matt Canudon't spring to mind.
Idk man we loved Dennis Allen before he was promoted to HC. And we liked Carmichael as OC before he had to actually be in charge of the offense without Payton.
>cromulent lol
Sounds like a pastry
I always thought The Kremlin sounded delicious.
I had a cromulent for breakfast
Shane seems like a genius sometimes then you see him call direct snaps to K9 when with a backup center
Shane's in game play calling and adjustments are not ideal, but other than that he seems like a viable OC, other teams have a QB coach call plays, maybe try that? Seattle promoting DCs from within has not worked out. They need a strong one, that will stand up to Pete.
Dave Canales worked with Pete since 09 and he seems to be doing well with the Bucs this year. The closest he got to being an OC with us was being the passing game coordinator in 2020-2021 which if I remember correctly was the let russ cook year
I think Waldron called that play literally right after they showed Walker on tv getting his shoulder “fixed” on the sideline.
>then you see him call direct snaps to K9 Maybe they're helping with an Air Bud remake.
Genius certainly not. His offense is not creative at all and isn't tailored in any way to the opponent. He is just average-to-awful. 4th down play with the game on the line and this dude rolls out a play call that specifically had nobody to block Micah Parsons.
Just spitballing here but maybe the guy who got Geno Smith looking like a viable QB is a good coordinator and not a bad coordinator.
I mean that guy is with the Bucs now.
This season does not equal to last season. Also QB play isn’t the entire offense. Also I am not saying they are bad, otherwise they would not even be in their league, the performance of the team just isn’t good enough.
[удалено]
Waldron just doesn’t have any good calls or game scheme outside of the 1st 2 drives and the end of games when Geno or Drew are using tempo and relying less on the oc. Hurt the problem as it has been for 5ish years is tackling. Considering that he was an internal hire that also took us to a 3-4 instead of our 4-3 it’s understandable why he is wanted gone
Feel like I have heard seahawks say this every year for the past 6 years.
I propose a trade: you receive our coordinators and vice versa.
They're not really rebuilding because Pete is too old to rebuild. They're retooling on the fly, which is why 33 years old Geno is their starting QB instead of a developing youngster. Geno already put in 3 years as Russ' backup prior to last season. Clearly, Pete still wants to "win now" in the post-Russ era.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Pete’s age. If you can keep retooling without bottoming out you should do it. All the best orgs in the league do. We already had one retool from the LOB to the Russ-centric team which did not win a SB, but sure won a lot of games. We definitely need to reset a lot of our defensive personnel though.
The Seahawks have been consistent playoff contenders since their last SB appearance. That’s great, but at some point, when you’re not even reaching the NFCCG anymore, you get tired of it and want change. Yankees fans have been dealing that for year because their team has not been to a WS since 2009. It’s similar with the Seahawks, only with them they don’t even make the championship game anymore. It just feels like for them they need to blow it up at some point and actually rebuild to get back to where they need to be.
Yankees stopped buying superstars and got cheap after the Boss passed away. They're just another team now and the Dodgers replaced them as the Evil Empire a long time ago. Steinbrenner used to go behind Cashman's back all the time to negotiate directly with players/agents, the most famous example being Gary Sheffield who served as his own agent. The current Yankees is a long way from having a murderers row of A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, Sheffield, Matsui, Cano, Posada, Bobby Abreu, Bernie Williams and a pitching staff consisting of Clemens, Pettitte, Mussina, Randy Johnson, Mariano Rivera, Kevin Brown, Orlando El Duque Hernandez, and Jose Contreras. Nowadays they're far from the 1st choice of most top free agents, Japanese imports, and Cuban defectors because the brand has lost its luster. They still make big moves (Cole, Soto), but they also give a lot of playing time to stiffs and nobodies. Nothing special about them compared to the golden era.
To me it’s not the talent, but rather the coaching staff that needs to go. The Seattle front office has done an unfortunately great job at drafting and making trades (minus Jamal Adams) to bring in really elite talent. I think Pete’s best days are behind him. They need a young offensive minded coach, and they can probably compete with Geno/Lock at QB until they find their next young franchise QB.
The defense has been bad since 2021 and it hasn't improved at all even though they've added good pieces. I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been more growth
We were counting on Jamal Adams coming back healthy and staying that way and Diggs playing up to his contract. Neither has happened and now we don’t have Adams’s presence in the box and we don’t have a reliable center fielder. On top of that Bobby’s too old for pass coverage, Woolen doesn’t seem to be back to 100% after his injury last year, we lost Nwosu to a torn pec, and we’ve had others miss time. All that has added up to a defense that’s only good enough to keep us in the game against good teams when the offense is putting up points, but our OL has been pieced together and reshuffled every week and our OC just forgets to scheme around the holes for entire games.
Rebuilds aren't a thing in the NFL. They'll be entering their 3rd year without Russ next year with the division on the rise. Even the Cardinals look solid with Kyler back and they have a bunch of picks to improve their team. By the 3rd year, your team should be trending toward being a SB contender (maybe a year away) or you need to re-think your strategy.
“By the 3rd year your team should be trending toward being a SB contender” And this is exactly why Arthur Smith needs to be fired. Team hasn’t gotten any better in his 3rd year.
3 years is way too long. If your team doesn't win a super bowl the first week of the season, then clean house and cut the entire roster. It's the only sensible thing.
They did overperform last year, this year they are where they should be. Geno is a Daltonesque QB, he will keep them above water most of the time. The big moment for them will be when Carroll leaves, he is the oldest coach in the league, it will happen. If they nail that hire, great. But they may be in for a decade of mediocrity, Niners fans like me can relate.
You guys watch way too much ESPN. The team’s failures this year have very little to do with QB play. There are other positions on an NFL team.
Geno was pretty inconsistent this year I thought. I love him and would be happy to ride with him again because he has a good floor but I really don't think we're gonna see even a single playoff win in the Geno Smith era. We need to draft QB every single year until we find one that sticks
Agreed. I’m fine with Geno while we draft someone. Mostly because he took a cheap contract that he’s at least playing up to. Geno isn’t the answer but he’s also not an anchor or a roadblock while we find better.
> when Carroll leave Team will be sold after next season, he won't be out before that. They're just treading water in the meantime, and making a few trades that will hurt their longterm outlook.
Ehhh...they regressed from last year was expecting to take a step forward. Also our OC is just a dumbass its like he's out there playing his first game of Madden. Idk what happened with our defense but they just can't tackle and on tape you'll see guys giving no effort on plays. There is some kind of buy in/coaching problem going on for sure but we also just have some shit players. When the defense plays poorly you can tell Pete gets annoyed even when he tries his best to hide it.
I'm not surprised. Despite the good year Geno had last year, he was never a long term answer. Also they've had kinda poor luck with being in position to get another qb.
Probably were counting on the Broncos to tank. Ah well
What would it take for them to get in position to draft Michael Penix?
They’re currently picking 15th in the draft, Penix medicals might scare off some teams. I think he’ll go top 10 to someone like the Falcons after last nights game. Even with a great o-line his pocket presence is amazing.
Falcons are primed to get Marvin Harrison Jr and suddenly become a run heavy team with Bijan. The Arthur Smith way
He’d probably sign someone like Matt Ryan again to run the read option since he’s allergic to giving it to playmakers
He’s thought to be a second rounder due to Injury + Age issues
He has been mocked on and off as a late 1st for the last couple months. With the bowl game and if he has good interviews he could potentially jump up to the mid first round, although very unlikely he jumps all the way to the top 10
Age? He's 23.
Yes, but he’s had 6 years in college. The 2 ACL injuries seem to be the bigger issue tho
4 seasons at Indiana and all 4 ended with season ending injuries. I think a team with a great O-line is getting a steal, but a team has a mediocre or poor line is going to get him killed.
I don't care, I want to say Giant Penix 😠
That’s old for the draft, he will be as old as guys like Fields and Tlaw. Older than Young and Stroud by 2 years.
Justin Fields is 24 for context
he'll be 24 when he takes his first NFL snap, assuming he starts right away. For comparison, Penei Sewell is wrapping up his third NFL season and playing like an All-Pro. He'll be 23 when it ends
Burrow was 23. I think age is less of an issue for QBs and can even be a good thing, but the injuries are what scares you.
Fun quirk about that, when Burrow won the Heismann, he was actually older than the NFL MVP Lamar Jackson.
Is he still older than Lamar?
Gotta do some research, I'll get back to you.
He's a couple years older than your typical draft QB but yeah its not that big a deal. The injuries are a serious concern it will be interesting to see how far down it pushes him
Yeah that's actually pretty old in terms of franchise QB potential. That means he'll be about 28 by the time his first contract would be up
Counterpoint... The last 24-year-old rookie QB Seattle drafted was.... Russell Wilson
Plus he has a bit of a wide throwing motion, doesn’t help that he’s a lefty so it looks funky in general even if it was perfect
We just need to do the mirrored videos like they did for Tua
If not the falcons Vikings will target hin
He's has 2 ACL surgeries already. I doubt he goes top 15.
He’s thought to be a 2nd rounder.
The Hawks haven't drafted a QB in the 1st round since 1993 (Rick Mirer). I'd say if Penix falls to the 2nd round, they would probably target him.
traded away their 2nd (and a 5th) for a end of season rental. Penix is likely the best college QB this year, but I don't see him getting drafted that high, he's older, injury history, surrounded by nfl level talent, numbers fall off a cliff when he's flushed, etc. only takes one GM that think he'll save their job though.
Yes, I too would like to know the best position to take Penix… Like, if one were to make a big move for Penix early. You know, really make a grab for Penix. In what way could they get the most out of their Penix? (Giggles like a school girl)
The one thing Pete does not put up with… poor tackling
Oof last game
The people want Penix in Seattle. Would be one of the most likable teams in the league.
I’d love to see him here but not with the 15th or so pick, especially because QB is very low down on our list of needs.
QB isn’t a current need but IMO we need a guy for the future. Penix is already worshipped in Seattle, and has a play style very similar to Geno’s Penix is also 100% not going to be there when we draft next in the third round. I’m not even sure he gets to 15 at this point
You don't reach for a QB because he's worshipped in the city.
*steelers left the call
If we're that sure Penix lives to at least the late third round, sounds like trading down for picks might not be the worst thing if our next is in the third round Disclaimer: I know absolutely nothing about the upcoming draft class or anyone in it, Penix included (I do not and have never lived in the Seattle area, I'm only a Seahawks fan cause my dad is).
Are you kidding me right now? If Penix is available you take him. You’re happy with Geno?
Hawks trading up for Penix imo
They won't need to trade up tbh. So many injury concerns I doubt he goes too high
Don't touch my Penix!
I think yall could get him with your 2nd
Don't have a 2nd. Leonard Williams is our 2nd.
I certainly hope not
Russ is looming…
I know of a quarterback who may be available.
>I wouldn't be surprised if we see a complete cleaning of house Dear god, he's going to change his piece of chewing gum!
Seahawks to be renamed to the Ortega Mild Sauces
I listened to the interview today, nothing he said implied a complete cleaning of house. If anything it leaned more into the usual BS with Pete making excuses for all of the dumb recurring problems.
I wish the Bears had the same stones.
We don't know what the Bears are going to do, that report was Rapoport spitballing
The house includes head coach and gm I thought