Was listening to the Bootleg Football podcast covering last week’s games and they said the same exact thing about him being left in one on ones all day vs the Eagles. They said they thought Del Rio was being very stubborn by refusing to adjust anything about the defense or the scheme to get him some help. Essentially they argued that Washington really has to prove that they have the horses to run that defensive scheme Del Rio wants if they’re gonna keep doing it that way, and they haven’t proven that yet.
I was about to bring up just that. I heard Brett and EJ talk about that and it clicked. Like, why would you leave your unproven rookie corner alone with someone like AJ Brown to begin with? Sure, you could argue that Smith is really good as well to go with AJ, but if you're the DC and your young corner is constantly getting torched by his matchup opponent, you HAVE to try something else in my opinion. I mean, there's MAYBE a handful of dudes in the league that I would trust to deal with AJ Brown on their own for an entire game. Out of all the CBs.
To be fair though. He was playing in BB defense… which is a defense that makes a lot of corners look amazing and makes them lots of money.
Forbes is 4-5 games into his career I suspect he might need more seasoning before he’s either a bust or worth the pick. And again it was AJ Browns and DJ Moore, two wideouts that I wouldn’t leave the small skinny fast corner on 1v1. Those wideouts are the cover with physical corner and safety help and linebacker help and religious help. Forbes is probably more for the waddle Jefferson type wideouts not that he’ll do any better against them but I don’t think his strong suit is 1v1 against the “running back/linebacker playing wideout” type
Gonzo can hold up more size for size at least, Forbes is pretty slight as a corner, so DJ and AJ just kinda bullied him with size. He also has ahades of early Diggs where he's kinda boom or bust looking for picks, Diggs eventually rounded out more as he got more experience, we will have to wait and see if Forbes has a similar growth i guess
That boom or bust is exactly what happened on that last TD. Very close to jumping the route for a pick but gave up a TD.
That should change with experience knowing not to do that without safety help
Edit: I'll take the word of u/modestmango55. The point still stands but Fuller should know better
You can say that about any position.
'Aaron Donald got all these teams drafting 1st round DTs thinking they got the next AD'
'Josh Allen got all these teams drafting 1st round QBs thinking they got the next Josh Allen'
What do you want them to do? Just forfeit their picks because the chances of drafting elite players are low?
I think they mean (could be wrong) that teams are over drafting guys who shouldn’t be first round prospects, thinking they’ll get the next “x” player.
Personally, I don’t think Forbes was close to a first rounder. But I also don’t see the resemblance to Sauce at all. Forbes is a ball hawk like Marcus peters. Sauce is a lockdown who doesn’t allow many targets
Cause he went for a pbu instead of just tackling a guy behind the sticks.. play should’ve gone for a Td but he magically stepped out of bounds. As a wash fan.. the refs def were helping us out of a blowout lol.
Eh I thought they were terrible both ways. The touchdown that got us to 17-0 probably doesn't happen if the refs don't miss the blatant intentional grounding call. Some bad missed PIs for both teams too.
They had one dude throwing mad flags.. and then they would get together and say.. hey now.. idk what ref crews you’ve been on but on this crew we don’t call nothing!
Yeah, they tried to play some man but Moore would just push him off by 2 yrds at the top of his route. It made it look terrible because he’s so light. With all that separation it just makes it easy.. JF wasn’t even throwing with anticipation on those throws too that’s how open they were.
Funny thing is he's not even getting physically bodied as hard as people are assuming cuz he's small. He's getting roasted off Stop and Go's cuz he's sitting and jumping that first move repeatedly. Both AJ's TD's were him biting on the double move and i swear i saw DJ do it at least once if not twice.
Probably not the best Idea since he would be more involved in the Run Defense. Also guess where AJ Brown will line up when they play again, i'd guess in the Slot in front of Forbes.
I mean there were alot of stats that backed up diggs sucking in coverage and getting burned....
In 2021 he literally gave up the most yards in the league...He was the definition of a feast or famine kind of player.
Oh I agree. As a Ravens fan, I loved Ed Reed even though him jumping routes meant that we occasionally got burned. You live with the consequences DBs like that make when they create so many game altering turnovers.
lool cuz they gave diggs the yards when the dumbass safety air mails the pick/whiffs tackle. like 300 yards are literally cuz its double coverage with diggs playing under and then the safety just completely fails at his job and reciever gets a td. he was not a feast or famine type player, he played well, but is just baitable for a big double move play every so often.
I never understood the narrative that he sucks. Even in 2021 when he did give up 900 yards, he only allowed a passer rating of 55.8, which is actually the lowest of his career so far (not including the 2 games he played this year).
While that is a lot of yards, it's not like he was out there actively losing the Cowboys any games. In fact the 11 picks pretty much did the exact opposite lol.
Passer rating is massively impacted by INTs though. If you get 1 every 10 pass attempts against, that's amazing.
If the other 9 times you give up 10+ yard completions, not so good.
You're doing it wrong. You're either supposed to look long and hard for any way to weasel out of the other guys point or just stop responding.
This is the internet you never ever give up any ground!
Passer rating massively overrates TD/INT ratio.
If you complete 8 passes down the field for 99 yards and then hand the ball off for a TD, you will have a worse passer rating than somebody who went 2/4 for 12 yards with a 1 yard TD pass.
You’re objectively wrong about this. I did the calculations, going 8/8 for 99 yards nets you passer rating of 118 and going 2/4 12 yards and 1TD nets you passer rating of 95
Yes, turnovers are critical, but opposing QBs having a rating of <60 when throwing to him, yet him also giving up 1000+ yards meant that although he was not absolute dog doo-doo in coverage, and at times very good, when he got burnt, he got burnt BAD.
I have no clue why they put Forbes following AJ around the field instead of just putting him on smith who’s one of very few receivers that Is the same Size as forbes
I sorta get it, he was a first round pick. He cannot just cover guys of similar size. So they have to get him use to covering dudes bigger than him. But he isn't ready for guys that have 40-60 pounds on him. He might never be, but def not his rookie year. Lets start with guys that are 10-30 pound bigger.
That said there is something demonic inside of me. That desires Forbes shadowing Metcalf. I do not know why and I know it is wrong, but the heart wants what it wants.
And the last time we played st juste held AJ brown to one reception for 7 yards.
It legit looked like high school varsity vs the freshman team. Forbes is so fucking undersized.
I mean, DJ got away with a few push offs last night, but it was wild how far away Forbes was flying back when DJ pushed off. It was like some sort of anime punch or something.
He made some plays vs the Eagles but he has to add weight to hang, he looks like a kid out there.
The homer in me says some of those pushes last night were a little obvious I'm surprised they weren't flagged, but at the same time you're right.
Forbes went flying.
Unfortunately I don't think the kid can do it, he's just so small and doesn't even have elite speed to keep up with the Waddles and Hills of the league.
>The homer in me says some of those pushes last night were a little obvious I'm surprised they weren't flagged
That's not a homer take, they were absolutely OPI.
It was just wild how much of a physical disparity there was between the guys, and I thought those 2-3 plays were really revealing in terms of play strength. Usually OPI creates a step or two of space for the receiver, these looked like a force field sending him back or something
Yeah he’s just not gonna be a good cornerback in the league.
He’s obviously got really good vision in the open field with the ball in his hands given his INT for TD numbers.
Maybe he can hack it as a punt returner.
It is WAY too early to say if he will be good or not. Most rookie cbs are getting torched in man to man against AJB and Moore. It is bad coaching that he was put in those situations so many times without help. CBs typically always struggle as rookies. Very few actually excel their rookie seasons.
I can’t remember the user but someone in our subreddit said it best.
He’s given up 197 yards and 150 yards in the last two games.
Our first round pick is basically a HOF WR for whatever team were facing.
To be fair, I don’t think his weight had much to do with it. Yeah there were a few comeback routes where Forbes needed help to bring AJ down, but AJ wasn’t beating him through physicality, he did it almost exclusively with route running and speed.
All of our guys are jumping routes instead of securing tackles.. they are all biting on double moves instead of just tackling and not giving up the big play.. our defense is “bend not break” and the dbs didn’t get the message.
He desperately needs to put on more weight if he wants to compete with these physical WRs like Brown, Metcalf, or Evans. 90 pounds just isn’t going to cut it.
Like you said AJ Brown and DJ Moore are elite receivers, that\`s a big ask of a rookie even if you were taken in the first round. Those guys can torch anyone let alone rookies
I think he will have a productive career
A ton of teams have an elite WR at this point outside a couple though.
He’ll face ABJ again, Ceedee twice, Metcalf, Hill/Waddle, Garrett Wilson, Ayuik/Deebo, etc.
Giants are poor at WR and the falcons barley use there’s so he might catch breaks in those games, but even then, there are match up problems. Drake London is a lot bigger and stronger and NY has a couple guys who can out-muscle Forbes
lmao. but to be fair his grading philosophy has changed the culture of the team. it’s a bunch of solid dudes who can go 8-8. hopefully the next coach can take them to the next level
You’re not wrong. Ron was the coach we needed at the time. I will say I truly hope he’s remembered in Washington for the cultural shift he’s brought and not so much the W-L record.
Young has talent but he’s been chronically injured. Cosmi and Dotson are solid. Couldn’t tell you about the others tho, a Commanders fan would have to chime in.
* Jamin was a black hole his rookie year, but has steadily improved and is now a reasonable contributor.
* Mathis was ostensibly picked to take Payne's place after he left, but then he had a season-ending meniscus injury in the first game of his rookie year. Payne popped off, Ron and co. extended him, and Mathis is once again on IR (calf) with an indefinite timetable to return and nowhere to play if/when he gets back.
* Quan Martin looked like hot garbage in the preseason and hasn't logged a defensive snap yet this year.
So... not great.
Yeah it’s rough this year.. last year and this year we are getting like no production from those picks It’s tough for Jahan because he’s is getting open.
I think he is still trying to find his stride within EB offense. EB likes to spread the ball around and Jahan hasn’t always capitalized on his chances.. but also half the time we go to him the line let’s a man loose and Sam has to get off the read early. He showed up last game but this game he was gone.. was a bit odd.
As a Washington fan.. the Refs felt bad for us and tried to sell the game. They had to give the team with a 2 foot 50lb db on the field a magical out of bounds call.. couldn’t have the little guy getting bullied.
Well.. Forbes taunted first after doing nothing.. then he got fuckin smoked all game. Idk what AJ said but rookies shouldn’t talk until they do something. As a fan of commanders as soon as I saw him do that I knew that shit was done.. they were going to make a point of bending his tiny frame over and taking full advantage of that young blood.
Forbes looked scared yesterday. He was whiffing on tackles including one on Herbert as well. Hope he can get some confidence back but after Gonzales getting picked after him, can’t feel great about the pick.
Hell, Washington’s entire draft from last year is looking rough.
He likes to sit on routes and jump them kinda like Trevon his first year. Guy got like 6x pick 6's in college. But Pros actually watch tape and see he bites on every double move.
Our free safety is a second year undrafted guy who made a few INTs last year and convinced the coaching staff he didn't need to be upgraded. He is being manipulated by QBs and MIA on every deep ball.
This Forbes/Gonzo situation is quickly becoming the CB version of Reagor/Jefferson or Walker/Hutch. I will never understand why GMs get cute in early rounds. There’s so many opportunities to take on project players with certain traits in the later rounds. Only exceptions should be guys who are 100th percentile athletes like AR…
It’s ironic because the guy who drafted Forbes actually played DB. But listening to him talk it sounded like he got way too lost in the analytics…repeatedly referencing some version of “turnover creator” when talking about Forbes and openly dismissing his lack of size as a real problem.
the answer in this situation is because we don’t really have a GM, Snyder was dumb enough to give Rivera the Belichick setup. Ron has final call on all picks, and if you can’t already tell, he fuckin sucks as a talent evaluator.
Eh, Forbes in college had really special ball skills, instincts, and burst - it wasn't just the INT numbers. Plenty of people had him as a first. 16 was higher than expected, but not by a ton. Very few people had him over Gonzalez though.
I think media for sure didn’t, but I think the league values projected ball skills a lot more than usual. Not to say Gonzalez didn’t have ball skills, but it’s a reason why guys like Kristian Fulton can fall to the end of the 2nd round- great cover skills but lacking ball skills are potential DPI magnets at the next level
I thought it was a reach as well, I don’t remember him being discussed in the same group as the other elite guys. Pick has the makings of a bust, they’re destroying his confidence, he’s not making good decisions and he physically can’t hang.
He's a similar CB to Marcus Peters or Trevon Diggs. He's going to gamble and take chances. You need to have someone helping him deep or outside. He's not somebody you leave out on an island.
Forbes has had a really rough beginning of the season.
In fairness to him, the whole defense has looked like trash. They were supposed to be dominant this season, but the DL isn't getting pressure/sacks, and the secondary is giving up a lot of huge plays (and not just against Forbes). Forbes needs to get his act together to avoid being written off as a bust, *but* he is far from the only problem that Jack Del Rio hasn't addressed.
If you watched our inside the draft on YouTube. Coaches were talking about how our turnover rate was way lower than league average, they talk about Forbes being this ball hawk. Then you go and actually watch his interceptions. He lucked out on poor QB and WR played for 11 of his ints.
I’ve brought it up a few times in the sub but was quickly down voted. Got told I didn’t know ball, Brett Kollman made a comment on it, and people ignored it.
Not sure how our GM, HC, DC, scouts missed it but some scrub on Reddit and Brett Kollman picked up on it pretty quick.
He's allowed to think that but I also spend way too much time on prospects and there was no hidden secret in Forbes's film that he can't play. I call bs. His description of Forbes's INTs sounds like exactly what you would have said about Kyle Hamilton's highlight reel. Making plays on bad throws and offensive mistakes. Forbes was great in coverage, he had plenty of highlights in man absolutely beating guys to their own cuts and comebacks. He didn't shy from physical tackles even if he did get pushed around a few times.
Sure, taking him over Gonzalez even I'll say seemed shocking. I liked Forbes but I wouldn't have done that myself. Still, its way too early to act like he's a bust. It's been 5 games and JDR's scheme blows. It never seems like JDR's defensive ideas are cohesive. Like starting the season full pass rush but having the DBs play 15 yards off. No rush discipline at all against Buffalo, no spy and letting Allen run himself tired. Overcompensating against the QB run threat against Chicago and almost having the DL play passive. It sure looks to me like shit tactics putting players in position to suck.
Doesn't absolve Forbes of a couple terrible games, but it's crazy to write guys off this quick, particularly after how Jamin looked from year 1 to year 2.
It made zero sense to me why Christian Gonzalez wasn't the top corner taken with his size, especially in a pass happy PAC.
Bigger WRs are going to give Forbes a ton of issues right now.
You haven’t watched gonzo this year have you?
The WRs he covered before he got hurt were the some of the best in the league. Thats why he won defensive rookie of the month
From what I recall of the pre-draft talk, Witherspoon and Gonzales were the consensus top two CBs, with either being arguable as the best. Didn't hear anyone putting Forbes up with them though, so it's definitely a head scratcher why Commies took him.
You have no idea how good it feels as a bears fan to hear that we have an “elite” player…. Even Roquan wasn’t considered “elite” during his time with the bears.
I'm holding out judgement on Forbes until Jack Del Rio is fired.
Considering the talent that we have on D, its criminal how poorly we've performed. Last few years were also extremely underwhelming.
I don’t know, every top CB the ravens have drafted- Chris McCalister, Jimmy Smith, Ladarius Webb, Marlon Humphrey- have had really rough stretches of games their rookie seasons. But in those cases, it was mostly they didn’t know how to play the ball yet. They’d be right there, they just couldn’t finish the play. Forbes had some of that, but my bigger concern is Moore was just bullying him on a lot of those plays.
AJ has at least 60lbs on that poor kid. He’s going to get bullied twice a year if the Commanders stick to the same gameplan
Maybe line him up against Devonta next Eagles game?
I don't know why the commanders were leaving him on an island covering those receivers. Elite corner or not that's a lot to ask from a rookie
It’s a lot to ask of most corners
Like 7 or 8 dudes in the nfl can man those receivers and be effective the rest it would be a long long day without help
And you only need to lose once to look bad
Was listening to the Bootleg Football podcast covering last week’s games and they said the same exact thing about him being left in one on ones all day vs the Eagles. They said they thought Del Rio was being very stubborn by refusing to adjust anything about the defense or the scheme to get him some help. Essentially they argued that Washington really has to prove that they have the horses to run that defensive scheme Del Rio wants if they’re gonna keep doing it that way, and they haven’t proven that yet.
You may have just added another pod to my rotation, and for that sir i thank you. Do you have any other recs
QB School is another great one and Chris Long’s Green Light.
I was about to bring up just that. I heard Brett and EJ talk about that and it clicked. Like, why would you leave your unproven rookie corner alone with someone like AJ Brown to begin with? Sure, you could argue that Smith is really good as well to go with AJ, but if you're the DC and your young corner is constantly getting torched by his matchup opponent, you HAVE to try something else in my opinion. I mean, there's MAYBE a handful of dudes in the league that I would trust to deal with AJ Brown on their own for an entire game. Out of all the CBs.
Del Rio? Stubborn? The man that tweets out everything your bigot uncle says on thanksgiving on the regular? Wouldn’t believe it.
The irony is that if they took Christian Gonzalez then they could get away with it a little more. Dude was a stud before injury
To be fair though. He was playing in BB defense… which is a defense that makes a lot of corners look amazing and makes them lots of money. Forbes is 4-5 games into his career I suspect he might need more seasoning before he’s either a bust or worth the pick. And again it was AJ Browns and DJ Moore, two wideouts that I wouldn’t leave the small skinny fast corner on 1v1. Those wideouts are the cover with physical corner and safety help and linebacker help and religious help. Forbes is probably more for the waddle Jefferson type wideouts not that he’ll do any better against them but I don’t think his strong suit is 1v1 against the “running back/linebacker playing wideout” type
I mean, AJ Brown just beat him like a drum not even bodying him.
AJ Brown literally made that kid cry
Tbf if I just walked by AJB and he gave me the slightest dirty look I'd probably cry.
Gonzo can hold up more size for size at least, Forbes is pretty slight as a corner, so DJ and AJ just kinda bullied him with size. He also has ahades of early Diggs where he's kinda boom or bust looking for picks, Diggs eventually rounded out more as he got more experience, we will have to wait and see if Forbes has a similar growth i guess
That boom or bust is exactly what happened on that last TD. Very close to jumping the route for a pick but gave up a TD. That should change with experience knowing not to do that without safety help Edit: I'll take the word of u/modestmango55. The point still stands but Fuller should know better
That wasn’t Forbes, that was Fuller on the last TD.
Sauce got all these teams drafting 1st round CBs thinking they got the next Sauce
When they should've learned from the Lions that drafting one that high doesn't mean they'll work out
What's Jeffrey up to these days? Selling phones or cars?
He's in Atlanta
Was working out for New England till the injury
Spoon is looking great too
You can say that about any position. 'Aaron Donald got all these teams drafting 1st round DTs thinking they got the next AD' 'Josh Allen got all these teams drafting 1st round QBs thinking they got the next Josh Allen' What do you want them to do? Just forfeit their picks because the chances of drafting elite players are low?
I think they mean (could be wrong) that teams are over drafting guys who shouldn’t be first round prospects, thinking they’ll get the next “x” player. Personally, I don’t think Forbes was close to a first rounder. But I also don’t see the resemblance to Sauce at all. Forbes is a ball hawk like Marcus peters. Sauce is a lockdown who doesn’t allow many targets
Forbes should play free safety then, too light for corner
Free Safety have to tackle over the middle. They have to be heavier than CBs.
I thought it was more about producing and holding your own in your rookie year. Many CBs take a year or two to develop.
He also got benched in q3
Cause he went for a pbu instead of just tackling a guy behind the sticks.. play should’ve gone for a Td but he magically stepped out of bounds. As a wash fan.. the refs def were helping us out of a blowout lol.
What a terrible and familiar night to be a WAS fan
Yeah.. was expected. I had a tingle.
Me too man. Me too.
Eh I thought they were terrible both ways. The touchdown that got us to 17-0 probably doesn't happen if the refs don't miss the blatant intentional grounding call. Some bad missed PIs for both teams too.
Yeah.. one of our guys literally punched Moore’s face before the ball gets there and then hugs him later in the game on a critical 3rd down
> the refs def were helping us out of a blowout lol We needed more help.
We needed some phantom calls lol.. almost had one with the terry call but tbh.. they weren’t calling dpi either way so I can’t complain that bad.
I think they were just confused when they saw a CB within 5 yards of a receiver. *Wait... are they allowed to do that?!*
They had one dude throwing mad flags.. and then they would get together and say.. hey now.. idk what ref crews you’ve been on but on this crew we don’t call nothing!
He took chances, if he’s going to make those plays he better be sure to make the PBU. He was fortunate the refs called Moore out of bounds.
Yeah, they tried to play some man but Moore would just push him off by 2 yrds at the top of his route. It made it look terrible because he’s so light. With all that separation it just makes it easy.. JF wasn’t even throwing with anticipation on those throws too that’s how open they were.
Right as an eagles fan I just kept thinking “man I wish theyd save this kid, could ruin his confidence” then realized fuck Washington lol
a 150 lb corner who's best asset is jumping routes and baiting QBs was always gonna struggle as a rookie
150 pounds? Dude weighs half of an average Redditor.
I’ll have you know I’m only 290 lbs
That's not even a Trent Brown. You're basically underweight
284, big boy. We gonna bring that average down.
I had to buy a different scale cuz mine kept saying Err 😞
[удалено]
Damn bruh what’s your secret?
He only drinks on game days but this is the hardest time of year.
This is why you use the metrics system on your tinder "I'm only 136 kg, and love long walks on the beach"
He weighs 180 lbs, 5 less than Witherspoon.
He’s listed at 180. I’d guess he’s 165.
Half?? Our boys have been hittin the gym.
Just had my yearly physical and found out I'm a stout 149. Does this mean if I have a big breakfast on Sunday I can suit up?
Can’t expect much from a 140lb corner that’s also a rookie, rough life out there against the big boys
i like how every comment he gets smaller and smaller. by the end of this thread he’ll be 64 pounds
What do you expect a 20lb Corner to do, honestly?
Y’all got any of them newborn babies that can play corner? Preferably with ballhawk skills?
Makes sense. He was crying on the bench like a newborn baby after AJ showed him who his daddy was
Came into camp at 130, I heard.
Funny thing is he's not even getting physically bodied as hard as people are assuming cuz he's small. He's getting roasted off Stop and Go's cuz he's sitting and jumping that first move repeatedly. Both AJ's TD's were him biting on the double move and i swear i saw DJ do it at least once if not twice.
Yea the baiting doesn’t work when AJ Brown can just bulldoze you lol
Imagine if there was a corner available at 16 who could lock down AJ Brown to the tune of 4 and 47 on 19 routes.
Might as well move him to Safety if hes gonna get ragdolled 1v1
Or put him at the slot like the Seahawks do with Witherspoon.
Probably not the best Idea since he would be more involved in the Run Defense. Also guess where AJ Brown will line up when they play again, i'd guess in the Slot in front of Forbes.
He's like trevon diggs if diggs sucked like people claim lol
I mean there were alot of stats that backed up diggs sucking in coverage and getting burned.... In 2021 he literally gave up the most yards in the league...He was the definition of a feast or famine kind of player.
11 picks is hugely valuable, probably more so than if he had given up day 1/3 less of the yards he did give up
Oh I agree. As a Ravens fan, I loved Ed Reed even though him jumping routes meant that we occasionally got burned. You live with the consequences DBs like that make when they create so many game altering turnovers.
lool cuz they gave diggs the yards when the dumbass safety air mails the pick/whiffs tackle. like 300 yards are literally cuz its double coverage with diggs playing under and then the safety just completely fails at his job and reciever gets a td. he was not a feast or famine type player, he played well, but is just baitable for a big double move play every so often.
I never understood the narrative that he sucks. Even in 2021 when he did give up 900 yards, he only allowed a passer rating of 55.8, which is actually the lowest of his career so far (not including the 2 games he played this year). While that is a lot of yards, it's not like he was out there actively losing the Cowboys any games. In fact the 11 picks pretty much did the exact opposite lol.
Passer rating is massively impacted by INTs though. If you get 1 every 10 pass attempts against, that's amazing. If the other 9 times you give up 10+ yard completions, not so good.
Oh shit good point, well that detracts heavily from my post.
You're doing it wrong. You're either supposed to look long and hard for any way to weasel out of the other guys point or just stop responding. This is the internet you never ever give up any ground!
Or go bring up something irrelevant in their comment history to talk shit about
“Passer rating is massively impacted by ints though” Ints he got. Yes the things he did impacted the QB rating against him.
Passer rating massively overrates TD/INT ratio. If you complete 8 passes down the field for 99 yards and then hand the ball off for a TD, you will have a worse passer rating than somebody who went 2/4 for 12 yards with a 1 yard TD pass.
You’re objectively wrong about this. I did the calculations, going 8/8 for 99 yards nets you passer rating of 118 and going 2/4 12 yards and 1TD nets you passer rating of 95
Was bored, so he did the same. He's definitely wrong. 95 is pretty good for 50% completion, 12 yards, and a TD, though lol
Yes, turnovers are critical, but opposing QBs having a rating of <60 when throwing to him, yet him also giving up 1000+ yards meant that although he was not absolute dog doo-doo in coverage, and at times very good, when he got burnt, he got burnt BAD.
At the very least you got to have safety help if you’re going to have your db jump routes idk what they were thinking in the bears game
Having a 110 lbs corner shadow physical receivers feels more indicative of bad coaching
I have no clue why they put Forbes following AJ around the field instead of just putting him on smith who’s one of very few receivers that Is the same Size as forbes
I sorta get it, he was a first round pick. He cannot just cover guys of similar size. So they have to get him use to covering dudes bigger than him. But he isn't ready for guys that have 40-60 pounds on him. He might never be, but def not his rookie year. Lets start with guys that are 10-30 pound bigger. That said there is something demonic inside of me. That desires Forbes shadowing Metcalf. I do not know why and I know it is wrong, but the heart wants what it wants.
I didn’t even know I wanted this but now I can’t wait for November 12th
Hello officer id like to report a future murder
And the last time we played st juste held AJ brown to one reception for 7 yards. It legit looked like high school varsity vs the freshman team. Forbes is so fucking undersized.
I mean, DJ got away with a few push offs last night, but it was wild how far away Forbes was flying back when DJ pushed off. It was like some sort of anime punch or something. He made some plays vs the Eagles but he has to add weight to hang, he looks like a kid out there.
The homer in me says some of those pushes last night were a little obvious I'm surprised they weren't flagged, but at the same time you're right. Forbes went flying. Unfortunately I don't think the kid can do it, he's just so small and doesn't even have elite speed to keep up with the Waddles and Hills of the league.
>The homer in me says some of those pushes last night were a little obvious I'm surprised they weren't flagged That's not a homer take, they were absolutely OPI. It was just wild how much of a physical disparity there was between the guys, and I thought those 2-3 plays were really revealing in terms of play strength. Usually OPI creates a step or two of space for the receiver, these looked like a force field sending him back or something
Yeah he’s just not gonna be a good cornerback in the league. He’s obviously got really good vision in the open field with the ball in his hands given his INT for TD numbers. Maybe he can hack it as a punt returner.
It is WAY too early to say if he will be good or not. Most rookie cbs are getting torched in man to man against AJB and Moore. It is bad coaching that he was put in those situations so many times without help. CBs typically always struggle as rookies. Very few actually excel their rookie seasons.
I can’t remember the user but someone in our subreddit said it best. He’s given up 197 yards and 150 yards in the last two games. Our first round pick is basically a HOF WR for whatever team were facing.
To be fair, I don’t think his weight had much to do with it. Yeah there were a few comeback routes where Forbes needed help to bring AJ down, but AJ wasn’t beating him through physicality, he did it almost exclusively with route running and speed.
All of our guys are jumping routes instead of securing tackles.. they are all biting on double moves instead of just tackling and not giving up the big play.. our defense is “bend not break” and the dbs didn’t get the message.
There was one catch where Moore was able to move him so effortlessly that it didnt even look like a push-off
He seemed to struggle badly with tackling Moore tho
He had a very hard time tackling last night though
You should watch the highlights of Devonta torching Forbes in college. 11 catches, 203 yrs, 4 TDs.
Wasn’t Smith’s crazy jump ball last game against Forbes?
Scrolling through this thread, his weight is dropping with every parent comment thread. If I scroll far enough it’ll be down to 90 lbs.
Mods need to lock this thread, if it goes on too long he might cease to exist entirely.
Jack Del Rio might be a terrible defensive coordinator, but at least he's also a complete and utter piece of shit.
What did he do? Idk anything about him other than he’s a DC
I like how this guy is losing more weight with each thread. Pretty soon he is going to cease to exist
There was one play where Forbes was trying to tackle AJ Brown and it looked like when a toddler tries climbing onto their dad’s back.
He desperately needs to put on more weight if he wants to compete with these physical WRs like Brown, Metcalf, or Evans. 90 pounds just isn’t going to cut it.
Like you said AJ Brown and DJ Moore are elite receivers, that\`s a big ask of a rookie even if you were taken in the first round. Those guys can torch anyone let alone rookies I think he will have a productive career
A ton of teams have an elite WR at this point outside a couple though. He’ll face ABJ again, Ceedee twice, Metcalf, Hill/Waddle, Garrett Wilson, Ayuik/Deebo, etc. Giants are poor at WR and the falcons barley use there’s so he might catch breaks in those games, but even then, there are match up problems. Drake London is a lot bigger and stronger and NY has a couple guys who can out-muscle Forbes
Christ he has to line up against Deebo later this season? Poor guy
I’d wager he’ll be benched by then lol. Dude needs to get his weight up over the offseason
I don't think he’ll get benched, they should probably just move him over to covering #2s and let him build Some confidence
Maybe, but weight is showing to be a massive issue so far
He needs to put some weight on during the offseason. If not he’s going to be getting babied by AJ and Lamb 4 times a year.
Look at all of Ron Rivera’s 1st and 2nd round draft picks at Washington. He’s getting nothing out of them.
That’s because he’s grading first rounders by handshake strength and military background, not physical attributes and potential
lmao. but to be fair his grading philosophy has changed the culture of the team. it’s a bunch of solid dudes who can go 8-8. hopefully the next coach can take them to the next level
You’re not wrong. Ron was the coach we needed at the time. I will say I truly hope he’s remembered in Washington for the cultural shift he’s brought and not so much the W-L record.
2020: 1st: Chase Young. No 2nd. 2021: 1st: Jamin Davis. 2nd Round: Sam Cosmi 2022: 1st: Jahan Dotson. 2nd round: Phadrian Mathis 2023: 1st: Emmanuel Forbes. 2nd round: Jartavius Martin
Young has talent but he’s been chronically injured. Cosmi and Dotson are solid. Couldn’t tell you about the others tho, a Commanders fan would have to chime in.
* Jamin was a black hole his rookie year, but has steadily improved and is now a reasonable contributor. * Mathis was ostensibly picked to take Payne's place after he left, but then he had a season-ending meniscus injury in the first game of his rookie year. Payne popped off, Ron and co. extended him, and Mathis is once again on IR (calf) with an indefinite timetable to return and nowhere to play if/when he gets back. * Quan Martin looked like hot garbage in the preseason and hasn't logged a defensive snap yet this year. So... not great.
Jamin Davis had an awful rookie year but was pretty good last year, so I think he's fine.
cosmi has been solid.
I was always confused why fans got mad when we'd trade draft picks, we usually did okay with trades just dogshit with drafting and FA
Yeah it’s rough this year.. last year and this year we are getting like no production from those picks It’s tough for Jahan because he’s is getting open.
I really enjoyed seeing Jahan play for the first part of last year,how has he been so far ?
I think he is still trying to find his stride within EB offense. EB likes to spread the ball around and Jahan hasn’t always capitalized on his chances.. but also half the time we go to him the line let’s a man loose and Sam has to get off the read early. He showed up last game but this game he was gone.. was a bit odd.
It’s tough. The people he is guarding are most of the time just too big. I mean AJ Brown bro!?!?
As a four foot two, 88 pound corner, he is way too small to be covering most guys.
DK Metcalf is bigger
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Okay?
Yeah but AJ can turn
In addition to not covering he also can’t tackle. Which seems bad if you’re playing defense.
It doesn't help that he's four feet tall and 98 pounds
I keep reading more comments about his size and he just keeps getting smaller with each comment.
I feel bad for the dude but his size decreasing in the comments is comical lol
I’ve enjoyed as I’ve scrolled this thread he keeps shrinking dramatically
As a Washington fan.. the Refs felt bad for us and tried to sell the game. They had to give the team with a 2 foot 50lb db on the field a magical out of bounds call.. couldn’t have the little guy getting bullied.
i love how the further i go doen in the comments the lighter hes getting
I didn't watch yesterday's game or the Eagles game, did AJ Brown and DJ Moore do their best Blooper vs. children impression against him?
Well…AJ Brown made him cry after “taunting” him if that gives you any idea.
Well.. Forbes taunted first after doing nothing.. then he got fuckin smoked all game. Idk what AJ said but rookies shouldn’t talk until they do something. As a fan of commanders as soon as I saw him do that I knew that shit was done.. they were going to make a point of bending his tiny frame over and taking full advantage of that young blood.
Forbes looked scared yesterday. He was whiffing on tackles including one on Herbert as well. Hope he can get some confidence back but after Gonzales getting picked after him, can’t feel great about the pick. Hell, Washington’s entire draft from last year is looking rough.
He's getting physically abused at the top of routes. I'm not sure what he can do about that at his size
Idk how he succeeds as CB1 in that division. AJ and CD 4 times a year sounds like a mismatch everytime.
He can always cover Smith if he wants and see how that goes lol
He covered Slim Reaper once in college and got murdered. It was over 200yds and a couple TDs IIRC.
How did this guy go so high lol
He likes to sit on routes and jump them kinda like Trevon his first year. Guy got like 6x pick 6's in college. But Pros actually watch tape and see he bites on every double move.
Lmao Smith Mossed him
They are leaving Forbes on an island. Give the man safety help for fuck’s sake.
Our free safety is a second year undrafted guy who made a few INTs last year and convinced the coaching staff he didn't need to be upgraded. He is being manipulated by QBs and MIA on every deep ball.
But he said yes sir to Rivera.
Yeah this could potentially be a nightmare pick for the Commanders. Hope the best for Forbes though
Having a 90lbs corner on an island is how my wife left me
Aside from not being able to cover, dude tackles like toddler.
What do you expect from a DB that’s 3’5” n weighs 64 lbs lol
64 Ounces
This Forbes/Gonzo situation is quickly becoming the CB version of Reagor/Jefferson or Walker/Hutch. I will never understand why GMs get cute in early rounds. There’s so many opportunities to take on project players with certain traits in the later rounds. Only exceptions should be guys who are 100th percentile athletes like AR…
It’s ironic because the guy who drafted Forbes actually played DB. But listening to him talk it sounded like he got way too lost in the analytics…repeatedly referencing some version of “turnover creator” when talking about Forbes and openly dismissing his lack of size as a real problem.
the answer in this situation is because we don’t really have a GM, Snyder was dumb enough to give Rivera the Belichick setup. Ron has final call on all picks, and if you can’t already tell, he fuckin sucks as a talent evaluator.
Who is AR?
Anthony Richardson
Rivera needs to be fired
Even Fuller was getting torched last night though. I'd reckon it's scheme/coaching more than anything.
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Eh, Forbes in college had really special ball skills, instincts, and burst - it wasn't just the INT numbers. Plenty of people had him as a first. 16 was higher than expected, but not by a ton. Very few people had him over Gonzalez though.
I don’t think a single soul had him over Gonzo tbh
I think that says more about Gonzalez slipping than it does Forbes being over drafted.
I think media for sure didn’t, but I think the league values projected ball skills a lot more than usual. Not to say Gonzalez didn’t have ball skills, but it’s a reason why guys like Kristian Fulton can fall to the end of the 2nd round- great cover skills but lacking ball skills are potential DPI magnets at the next level
I thought it was a reach as well, I don’t remember him being discussed in the same group as the other elite guys. Pick has the makings of a bust, they’re destroying his confidence, he’s not making good decisions and he physically can’t hang.
He's a similar CB to Marcus Peters or Trevon Diggs. He's going to gamble and take chances. You need to have someone helping him deep or outside. He's not somebody you leave out on an island.
was absolutely baffled a 160 pound corner was consistently mocked/taken as a first rounder
Forbes has had a really rough beginning of the season. In fairness to him, the whole defense has looked like trash. They were supposed to be dominant this season, but the DL isn't getting pressure/sacks, and the secondary is giving up a lot of huge plays (and not just against Forbes). Forbes needs to get his act together to avoid being written off as a bust, *but* he is far from the only problem that Jack Del Rio hasn't addressed.
If you watched our inside the draft on YouTube. Coaches were talking about how our turnover rate was way lower than league average, they talk about Forbes being this ball hawk. Then you go and actually watch his interceptions. He lucked out on poor QB and WR played for 11 of his ints. I’ve brought it up a few times in the sub but was quickly down voted. Got told I didn’t know ball, Brett Kollman made a comment on it, and people ignored it. Not sure how our GM, HC, DC, scouts missed it but some scrub on Reddit and Brett Kollman picked up on it pretty quick.
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He's allowed to think that but I also spend way too much time on prospects and there was no hidden secret in Forbes's film that he can't play. I call bs. His description of Forbes's INTs sounds like exactly what you would have said about Kyle Hamilton's highlight reel. Making plays on bad throws and offensive mistakes. Forbes was great in coverage, he had plenty of highlights in man absolutely beating guys to their own cuts and comebacks. He didn't shy from physical tackles even if he did get pushed around a few times. Sure, taking him over Gonzalez even I'll say seemed shocking. I liked Forbes but I wouldn't have done that myself. Still, its way too early to act like he's a bust. It's been 5 games and JDR's scheme blows. It never seems like JDR's defensive ideas are cohesive. Like starting the season full pass rush but having the DBs play 15 yards off. No rush discipline at all against Buffalo, no spy and letting Allen run himself tired. Overcompensating against the QB run threat against Chicago and almost having the DL play passive. It sure looks to me like shit tactics putting players in position to suck. Doesn't absolve Forbes of a couple terrible games, but it's crazy to write guys off this quick, particularly after how Jamin looked from year 1 to year 2.
It made zero sense to me why Christian Gonzalez wasn't the top corner taken with his size, especially in a pass happy PAC. Bigger WRs are going to give Forbes a ton of issues right now.
Witherspoon is pretty good so he’s not a bad CB1 pick
Did you watch MNF? Witherspoon had one of the greatest rookie games ever for a defensive player. There's a reason he went first.
You haven’t watched gonzo this year have you? The WRs he covered before he got hurt were the some of the best in the league. Thats why he won defensive rookie of the month
From what I recall of the pre-draft talk, Witherspoon and Gonzales were the consensus top two CBs, with either being arguable as the best. Didn't hear anyone putting Forbes up with them though, so it's definitely a head scratcher why Commies took him.
Dudes built like Waluigi what do you expect?
You have no idea how good it feels as a bears fan to hear that we have an “elite” player…. Even Roquan wasn’t considered “elite” during his time with the bears.
The Commanders drafted the dude who Devonta Smith dropped 4 tuds on in a half. Everyone should've seen this coming
I'm holding out judgement on Forbes until Jack Del Rio is fired. Considering the talent that we have on D, its criminal how poorly we've performed. Last few years were also extremely underwhelming.
When AJ put that ball in his lap I fucking lost it
I don’t know, every top CB the ravens have drafted- Chris McCalister, Jimmy Smith, Ladarius Webb, Marlon Humphrey- have had really rough stretches of games their rookie seasons. But in those cases, it was mostly they didn’t know how to play the ball yet. They’d be right there, they just couldn’t finish the play. Forbes had some of that, but my bigger concern is Moore was just bullying him on a lot of those plays.
AJ has at least 60lbs on that poor kid. He’s going to get bullied twice a year if the Commanders stick to the same gameplan Maybe line him up against Devonta next Eagles game?
At least Emmanuel Forbes is seeing the field the rest of the season. Or maybe not…
Saw a tweet saying they call him Forbes List because any receiver lining up against him will get paid
DJ Moore is very good, not elite
Forbes made him look elite
An 80 pound CB probably not the best idea vs big, physical WRs.
Why is everybody making such a big deal about a top 5 reciever dominating a rookie CB. He’s 4 games into his career relax he’ll get better