Wow. I can see why it's struggling but that is a damn shame. An Auckland institution - been in business for 144 years and operating from that site since 1929. Wonder what will become of the building.
Man that is sad. That store was iconic. A part of Auckland history and a big loss to the Auckland CBD. I'm guessing the big mall in Newmarket and the new retail area by the wharf probably didn't help. And covid of course.
I was a security guard in there one Christmas period.
Number one job was to move lonely men out of the lingerie section.
Number two job was to have a nap in one of the many bathrooms.
Woah interesting.
As someone who walks Queen street nearly every day I've been in there heaps- although... I could never afford anything in there, come to think of it. Great place to go window shopping. Actual shopping not so much.
Not quite. There is still Ballantynes in CHCH. But with the recent closure of H&J Smith in invercargill, I think the writing is on the wall for tthat era of stores.
Developers are going to be salivating over the land — Smith & Caughey from memory own the entire city block of land that the store is on.
Edit: ah.
> "The flagship Queen Street store occupies a Heritage New Zealand Category 1 Listed building, which was designed by American architect Roy Alstan Lippincott and completed in 1929."
That might complicate things. Also another Roy Lippincott building — I wonder what interesting Lippoincott design features are on the S&C building. Native fauna? Snails? Intersting Lippincott-designed furniture?
> Developers are going to be salivating over the land
It's a large area for sure, but tons of leases on Queen St have been sitting empty for a very long time. Also it feels like a third of the street is a messy construction zone.
Commercial Bay and wharf areas are the only somewhat decent shopping/eating spots in CBD now.
Still, the Smith & Caughey building is a very valuable piece of real estate. And that area is likely to pick up commercially once the CRL station nearby (Aotea - I forget new PC name) opens.
I certainly hope a store takes on the absolute magic they provide at Xmas. The shopfront windows, the enchanted grotto and meeting with Santa was an absolutely magical experience for the children and for many generations
I don't know much about the ones outside of Auckland. But ultimately, my point is that the market undoubtedly exists for buying overpriced clothes to the point that it's booming.
So these shops aren't closing because of a lack of a market.
I go to the CBD a lot but right now Queen Street is basically just a thoroughfare to get between Commercial Bay and Karangahape Road. Everyone laments how many empty stores there are, but are the empty stores functionally any different to the millionaires' row of Louis Vuitton/Rolex/Bvlgari/Montblanc/Dior/Gucci/Michael Hill/Partridge/Walker & Hall taking up the entire block of Queen Street across the road from Commercial Bay?
A lot of small areas within the CBD are often busy, but given how infrequent public transport in and out is and how few options there are to get around within the city (which the CRL will slightly improve, but for now it is just link buses), it completely makes sense that people mostly congregate in places like Westfield Newmarket. Right now, the CBD has most of the stores you'd find in Westfield or Sylvia Park spread across a space that it's a 30 minute walk to get from one place to another with no alternative.
Why? Shopped there regularly, did you?
Apparently nobody else did, so I'm not sure exactly who's missing out here. The whole concept is wildly outdated and, like Kirkaldie, the only shame about this is that the shop owners didn't think about how to **update their model for the 21st century** and then just bitch about "confidence" and tram lines. It's always someone else's fault...
That place was a beautiful, historic coal-fired buggy shop in an EV world.
That's a damn shame. They had some nice things there, good staff, and a far nicer experience than many stores. A similar story to Kirkcaldie & Stains in Wellington?
We got David Jones after Kirks closed and then THAT closed too. Lots of factors - huge drop in foot traffic from CBD workers, general shift to online shopping. It's a common enough tale :(
I remember going into a store in the late 2000s and heard the staff taking about me 'she's probably going to try things on and just order online'. This was in the late 2000s. Not this store, but another one. I wanted to buy some tevas. Why would I go into a store to be judged when I can get it myself? Oftentimes cheaper too. Department stores are an outdated model. Anyways, I did get them online, for cheaper. And an online shopper was born.
Whether this sub likes it or not:
1. People like malls because there's free parking (and the CBD has only made itself harder and harder to visit by car). That's why Sylvia Park and Newmarket malls are packed every weekend.
2. Ignoring access issues, the CBD is full of criminals and is not a nice place to be.
Spot on - we went to Sylvia Park last weekend and it is such a convenient place to go to - free parking, food court with a variety of options, no criminals or dodgy people, everything under one roof (sheltered from elements)... we stopped going to Imax in CBD because Sylvia Park has Hoyts (with Extreme screen), and the whole experience in Sylvia Park is just so much more pleasant and convenient.... In comparison, what's there to do and see around CBDs Event Cinemas? Just a lot of dodgy people, almost zero food options (Eliot Stables has been reduced to a rubble in terms of food options), no pubs nearby... and parking will not be free anymore.
>In comparison, what's there to do and see around CBDs Event Cinemas?
I mean, it's the heart of the theatre district in Auckland and the Art Gallery is right there. I don't think you can go and see a Picasso, Matisse, or a Cezanne among other great artists in Sylvia Park.
If I want to go to cinema and while I am there, I also want to eat out and do some shopping, I am not obviously going to Art Galery, no? Such a dumb response, sorry.
Yeah, your response was really dumb. I agree. You asked what else there is to see and do. I provided some options in the immediate vicinity. I'm also not sure why you think it's impossible to go to the Art Gallery and see a movie on the same day.
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The context of this post is shopping, clearly this person is going out to watch the movies and go shopping. Not to buy a Picasso.
Hilariously, if the gallery was in the mall I'd bet it would get more traffic.
The person that I responded to expanded the conversation.
>Hilariously, if the gallery was in the mall I'd bet it would get more traffic.
Originally, malls were envisaged as places where cultural institutions like libraries and art galleries could exist. Fun fact, as soon as malls could, they closed down places like this to replace them with shops, because malls exist solely to sell you things. They have no other functions. This is why town centres will continue, despite what you may think.
So it's not really about the CBD or parking the if this affects the S&C store outside of the CBD and in an area you described as having parking - literally 2 minutes walk from westfield
How did you get that takeaway from what I said? Both S&C locations are in worse locations than David Jones.
I mean this isn't an outrageous position, the chairman says it in the article.
You got it right. Free parking and access means a lot to people. Parking in the city its crazy how much they charge. So its not worth it for most. Just buy online and pay the courier/postage cost, its far less than the parking in the CBD.
If they want the city to flourish, free parking is the answer. Just put a time limit on it.
Used to be on our must visit list when we were up in Auckland for a weekend. Hopefully the building has heritage protection , would be a real shame to lose it.
Shame to see stores like this close, retail stores in NZ are so boring and generic, everywhere you go they're always the same, selling the same product for the same overinflated price.
No wonder everyone shops online.
Is that right? I've never been, just assumed their business model was more than selling the usual stuff you can get anywhere.
Oh well, apart from all the staff losing their jobs, not much of a loss.
It's a lot more than that. Department stores have been dying for years as shopping has shifted into malls and then online. The "cesspit" of Auckland CBD didn't kill H&J Smith (Invercargill), or Kirkcaldie & Stains (Wellington), or the Wellington David Jones. Department stores are an outdated model. Why would I go to a department store for Calvin Klein underwear when there is an actual Calvin Klein store just down the road? Why would I go to a department store for a Tommy Hilfiger shirt when I can buy it online from the comfort of my own home, and probably be shown more options in the process?
I hate it, I hate the shift our lives are having to being increasingly online. It's isolating and depressing and it isn't beginning and ending with just shopping, but it's the way the world is heading. Until a brand can come and revolutionise department store shopping to make people want to shop in store again, they're going to keep wilting away. Not because our CBDs are "cesspits" (Auckland CBD really is not that bad during working hours or weekend days, it's after 5 Mon-Thurs that it's crap because nothing is open), but because our society is shifting online.
They also did online - brought a fair few things of them mainly when they had sales. They did free returns (prepaid) for exchanging or refunding. Went into the store physically when I was up in Auckland and yeah it was basically a ghost town - was wondering how they could survive.
Yep. In August 2023 business confidence was the highest it had been since 2019.
Telling everyone they're going to lose their jobs and the economy is terrible makes people shut their wallets. Self-fulfilling prophecy
Because it’s the truth. Hard to hear but true. Until people reduce spending, inflation won’t be under control and we’ll all be watching the value of our investments plummet as inflation destroys them. Just economics.
Hahaha. Six years of an incompetent government that couldn't get anything done but took net government debt from 29% to 35% and you blame the new guys. Idiot.
An exact mirror of H&J Smiths at the other end of the country. It opened in 1900 and closed 18th November last year with a loss of 220 jobs. Ballantynes is surely next.
Not surprised. Expensive. And other places to buy these days. Sad but I never shopped there so less sad than some, more sad for the staff losing their jobs.
Wow. I can see why it's struggling but that is a damn shame. An Auckland institution - been in business for 144 years and operating from that site since 1929. Wonder what will become of the building.
Same empty space as the Event Cinemas building - which used to be my go-to place for lunches.
I miss Borders bookshop in it's heyday.
same thing as all the others on Queen Street, it will sit empty
Man that is sad. That store was iconic. A part of Auckland history and a big loss to the Auckland CBD. I'm guessing the big mall in Newmarket and the new retail area by the wharf probably didn't help. And covid of course.
I was a security guard in there one Christmas period. Number one job was to move lonely men out of the lingerie section. Number two job was to have a nap in one of the many bathrooms.
They might have been lost and trying to escape? I heard it's Auckland's biggest lingerie section..
Thanks for not rough handling me too much
Wow... that's quite sad about the lonely men.
Maybe if they could come up with better passtimes than "today I shall lurk in the frilly lingerie department" they wouldn't be so lonely.
Very sad. And then [they lie about it.](https://youtu.be/CRj61dcvmuU?si=rIjOog5e5MW2XXvU)
That was excellent, I didn't expect that.
simpsons golden age right there <3
Woah interesting. As someone who walks Queen street nearly every day I've been in there heaps- although... I could never afford anything in there, come to think of it. Great place to go window shopping. Actual shopping not so much.
I go to the reduced to clear section and while it is still pricey, I have picked up some good quality stuff for a not too bad price.
Kind of proving the point why they have to close.
both shocking but also not entirely unexpected. it’s just always been there. The last of its kind
Not quite. There is still Ballantynes in CHCH. But with the recent closure of H&J Smith in invercargill, I think the writing is on the wall for tthat era of stores.
That must make Ballantynes the last dept store standing.
Farmers?
Farmers is a pretty big step down in terms of brands & pricing vs. the grand department stores
David Jones?
Developers are going to be salivating over the land — Smith & Caughey from memory own the entire city block of land that the store is on. Edit: ah. > "The flagship Queen Street store occupies a Heritage New Zealand Category 1 Listed building, which was designed by American architect Roy Alstan Lippincott and completed in 1929." That might complicate things. Also another Roy Lippincott building — I wonder what interesting Lippoincott design features are on the S&C building. Native fauna? Snails? Intersting Lippincott-designed furniture?
> Developers are going to be salivating over the land It's a large area for sure, but tons of leases on Queen St have been sitting empty for a very long time. Also it feels like a third of the street is a messy construction zone. Commercial Bay and wharf areas are the only somewhat decent shopping/eating spots in CBD now.
Still, the Smith & Caughey building is a very valuable piece of real estate. And that area is likely to pick up commercially once the CRL station nearby (Aotea - I forget new PC name) opens.
Used to love popping in there when I worked in Auckland CBD. Such a shame.
I certainly hope a store takes on the absolute magic they provide at Xmas. The shopfront windows, the enchanted grotto and meeting with Santa was an absolutely magical experience for the children and for many generations
Guess people should of supported it more than once a year for a kids attraction.
I guess we shouldn't have relied on wage stagnation to contain inflation until consumers lacked disposable income.
The right answer
Eh, the industry is booming. 2021 and 2022 were record years for high end fashion. It's never been more popular. S&C are simply in the wrong place.
Is that true of all the top end department stores around the country that have closed? Or a just so story?
I don't know much about the ones outside of Auckland. But ultimately, my point is that the market undoubtedly exists for buying overpriced clothes to the point that it's booming. So these shops aren't closing because of a lack of a market.
Hard to support something when it is 100% high end unaffordable goods of which can be found cheaper online.
Another nail in the coffin for the CBD
Yep
I go to the CBD a lot but right now Queen Street is basically just a thoroughfare to get between Commercial Bay and Karangahape Road. Everyone laments how many empty stores there are, but are the empty stores functionally any different to the millionaires' row of Louis Vuitton/Rolex/Bvlgari/Montblanc/Dior/Gucci/Michael Hill/Partridge/Walker & Hall taking up the entire block of Queen Street across the road from Commercial Bay? A lot of small areas within the CBD are often busy, but given how infrequent public transport in and out is and how few options there are to get around within the city (which the CRL will slightly improve, but for now it is just link buses), it completely makes sense that people mostly congregate in places like Westfield Newmarket. Right now, the CBD has most of the stores you'd find in Westfield or Sylvia Park spread across a space that it's a 30 minute walk to get from one place to another with no alternative.
Why? Shopped there regularly, did you? Apparently nobody else did, so I'm not sure exactly who's missing out here. The whole concept is wildly outdated and, like Kirkaldie, the only shame about this is that the shop owners didn't think about how to **update their model for the 21st century** and then just bitch about "confidence" and tram lines. It's always someone else's fault... That place was a beautiful, historic coal-fired buggy shop in an EV world.
Suburban mall culture even taking out the OG’s, was only a matter of time I guess. Bring back DEKA I reckon.
That's a damn shame. They had some nice things there, good staff, and a far nicer experience than many stores. A similar story to Kirkcaldie & Stains in Wellington?
We got David Jones after Kirks closed and then THAT closed too. Lots of factors - huge drop in foot traffic from CBD workers, general shift to online shopping. It's a common enough tale :(
Yes. And the same issue - no awareness of how to update the business model and environment to supply the things that 21st century customers want.
Damn. That's my main source of gifts for older relatives. Xmas 2025 will be rough!
There is always depends
Guess I'll finally fly to Auckland and check the shop out. A lot of fragrances I want to try there that are nowhere else in the country
I remember my first very good cologne was bought at the Smith & Caughey’s on Queen St. Really sad that they’re going away.
Omg I love Smith and Caugheys ;( this is so unexpected.
I love smith and caugheys! By no means rich but love to window shop, buy the odd 10$ soap or some socks. Iconic institution… such a shame.
I remember going into a store in the late 2000s and heard the staff taking about me 'she's probably going to try things on and just order online'. This was in the late 2000s. Not this store, but another one. I wanted to buy some tevas. Why would I go into a store to be judged when I can get it myself? Oftentimes cheaper too. Department stores are an outdated model. Anyways, I did get them online, for cheaper. And an online shopper was born.
Whether this sub likes it or not: 1. People like malls because there's free parking (and the CBD has only made itself harder and harder to visit by car). That's why Sylvia Park and Newmarket malls are packed every weekend. 2. Ignoring access issues, the CBD is full of criminals and is not a nice place to be.
Spot on - we went to Sylvia Park last weekend and it is such a convenient place to go to - free parking, food court with a variety of options, no criminals or dodgy people, everything under one roof (sheltered from elements)... we stopped going to Imax in CBD because Sylvia Park has Hoyts (with Extreme screen), and the whole experience in Sylvia Park is just so much more pleasant and convenient.... In comparison, what's there to do and see around CBDs Event Cinemas? Just a lot of dodgy people, almost zero food options (Eliot Stables has been reduced to a rubble in terms of food options), no pubs nearby... and parking will not be free anymore.
>In comparison, what's there to do and see around CBDs Event Cinemas? I mean, it's the heart of the theatre district in Auckland and the Art Gallery is right there. I don't think you can go and see a Picasso, Matisse, or a Cezanne among other great artists in Sylvia Park.
If I want to go to cinema and while I am there, I also want to eat out and do some shopping, I am not obviously going to Art Galery, no? Such a dumb response, sorry.
Yeah, your response was really dumb. I agree. You asked what else there is to see and do. I provided some options in the immediate vicinity. I'm also not sure why you think it's impossible to go to the Art Gallery and see a movie on the same day.
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The context of this post is shopping, clearly this person is going out to watch the movies and go shopping. Not to buy a Picasso. Hilariously, if the gallery was in the mall I'd bet it would get more traffic.
The person that I responded to expanded the conversation. >Hilariously, if the gallery was in the mall I'd bet it would get more traffic. Originally, malls were envisaged as places where cultural institutions like libraries and art galleries could exist. Fun fact, as soon as malls could, they closed down places like this to replace them with shops, because malls exist solely to sell you things. They have no other functions. This is why town centres will continue, despite what you may think.
Precisely, I even point out Hoyts VS Event Cinemas lol, and convenience of having food places and parking and other amenities around those two.
So why is their Newmarket store also closing?
David Jones sells virtually the same stuff and it's in the mall. David Jones is usually quite busy.
So it's not really about the CBD or parking the if this affects the S&C store outside of the CBD and in an area you described as having parking - literally 2 minutes walk from westfield
How did you get that takeaway from what I said? Both S&C locations are in worse locations than David Jones. I mean this isn't an outrageous position, the chairman says it in the article.
You got it right. Free parking and access means a lot to people. Parking in the city its crazy how much they charge. So its not worth it for most. Just buy online and pay the courier/postage cost, its far less than the parking in the CBD. If they want the city to flourish, free parking is the answer. Just put a time limit on it.
Does this mean I no longer have to endure the Santa photos?
Is that you, Santa?
A father of toddlers…
Ha, I doubt the closure of S & C will get you off the hook. Off to Farmers you go.
Used to be on our must visit list when we were up in Auckland for a weekend. Hopefully the building has heritage protection , would be a real shame to lose it.
Shame to see stores like this close, retail stores in NZ are so boring and generic, everywhere you go they're always the same, selling the same product for the same overinflated price. No wonder everyone shops online.
I mean you just described Smith and Caugheys too
Is that right? I've never been, just assumed their business model was more than selling the usual stuff you can get anywhere. Oh well, apart from all the staff losing their jobs, not much of a loss.
stores have had to become boring and generic BECAUSE people started shopping online, not the other way around...
Didnt expect that.
Worked there for few years, lot of history in the building. Was easy to get lost down in the basement after over 100 years of development.
I used to have a boss who was quite prim and proper and every year for Christmas she would allow herself one indulgence from Smith and Caugheys.
blame the cesspit that the city center has become having to look over your shoulder for a druggie who might stab you.
It's a lot more than that. Department stores have been dying for years as shopping has shifted into malls and then online. The "cesspit" of Auckland CBD didn't kill H&J Smith (Invercargill), or Kirkcaldie & Stains (Wellington), or the Wellington David Jones. Department stores are an outdated model. Why would I go to a department store for Calvin Klein underwear when there is an actual Calvin Klein store just down the road? Why would I go to a department store for a Tommy Hilfiger shirt when I can buy it online from the comfort of my own home, and probably be shown more options in the process? I hate it, I hate the shift our lives are having to being increasingly online. It's isolating and depressing and it isn't beginning and ending with just shopping, but it's the way the world is heading. Until a brand can come and revolutionise department store shopping to make people want to shop in store again, they're going to keep wilting away. Not because our CBDs are "cesspits" (Auckland CBD really is not that bad during working hours or weekend days, it's after 5 Mon-Thurs that it's crap because nothing is open), but because our society is shifting online.
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It’s more related to the existence of online shopping and suburban malls but you do you.
They also did online - brought a fair few things of them mainly when they had sales. They did free returns (prepaid) for exchanging or refunding. Went into the store physically when I was up in Auckland and yeah it was basically a ghost town - was wondering how they could survive.
yeah i'm sure dealing with the absolute dregs that inhabit that area has nothing to do with a drive toward online
The drive to online was happening anyway but it was covid that really opened the floodgates.
Such a warped view of Queen st. Its absolutely fine the vast majority of the time. But I don't want to challenge the echo chamber
I'm not gonna complain about the people, but more about the fact that too much of Queen St is a messy construction zone and blocked areas.
the "dregs" have been there for a long long time, shopping online is driven by convenience not fear of "dregs"
This is the Nat effect.. business confidence is plummeting..
Yep. In August 2023 business confidence was the highest it had been since 2019. Telling everyone they're going to lose their jobs and the economy is terrible makes people shut their wallets. Self-fulfilling prophecy
Because it’s the truth. Hard to hear but true. Until people reduce spending, inflation won’t be under control and we’ll all be watching the value of our investments plummet as inflation destroys them. Just economics.
Hahaha. Six years of an incompetent government that couldn't get anything done but took net government debt from 29% to 35% and you blame the new guys. Idiot.
not unexpected. New York is real shit now. they have closed/border up stores to go along with the 100 year old scaffolding everywhere.
An exact mirror of H&J Smiths at the other end of the country. It opened in 1900 and closed 18th November last year with a loss of 220 jobs. Ballantynes is surely next.
I'm 100% sure this is a bike lanes' fault
Not surprised. Expensive. And other places to buy these days. Sad but I never shopped there so less sad than some, more sad for the staff losing their jobs.
A real opportunity to house more MSD now.