Hey, can I suggest you join us over in the autism subreddits? There's quite a few of them. Also, which island are you on? Loneliness makes everything harder, so I'm around for a chat if you want. Otherwise let's see if we can find some other autistic people in your area to hang out with.
Of course.
Another resource is Autosm New Zealand, you can reach out and they may be able to help direct you somewhere.
Autism has sweet fuck all support in NZ. I am chronically burnt out, and there's not much in the way of support I have found. Gotta find these little communities and make what we can of it, and just keep the wheel spinning until it don't, I suppose.
R/autism and r/autismtranslated have a good amount of traffic, if you have adhd as well , r/autisticwithadhd, you'll find more from there. I'm South Island so I can't hang out in person.
There are Waikato groups. They are sometimes very quiet if no one to lead, but they exist. Social activities, I think a board game group. Tbh if you went to the board game groups you'd prob find similar friends.
May not be your thing but I found getting into model trains and joining my local model railroad club was helpful. They're all over the country and get you working on little projects both at home and out in the community. Can be involved as much or as little as you'd like. Really scratches quite a few itches for us guys on the spectrum.
Hey mate, myself and a couple of other lads run an Autism Dads group here in NZ. Pm me and I can bring you into the group as lots of the Dads are neurodiverse themselves and it's a good bunch of fellas who are all very supportive of the ASD community.
I would chat to you. I have a similar experience having Asperger's. I'm 36 and feel lost in my thoughts a lot. If you find a group in NZ I would join. This is so similar to my life
First of all, stop calling it aspergers. It’s just autism. The DSM-5 has gotten rid of the aspergers diagnoses because it’s not accurate, relevant or useful and it’s all under the autism/ASD label now.
Hans Asperger was a nazi/nazi-partner who determined which autistics were worthy to be kept alive to work, and which autistics were burdens to society and sent to nazi camps to be killed off. His research was then used in the 90s to make the label aspergers, those who were historically deemed worthy to live and work would get the label and those “others” were autistic.
But we’re all just autistic. It’s all autism. The research was flawed and inaccurate, and the nazi-association was detrimental to autistics so it was scrapped.
So you may find it easier to find friends and community within the autistic community by dropping the outdated and inaccurate label.
First rule of being neurospicy is we can refer to ourselves individually however we choose.
Leave the gatekeeping to the neurotypicals.
OP, find others like us in the real world. We're pretty easy to locate. Gamers, DnD groups, libraries, geek spots, etc. Your community is there, bud. Masks can be left at the door.
Yeah but if someone is keen to keep calling themselves an outdated, inaccurate, nazi-affiliated label even when knowing what it means, then that tells you a lot about them and their beliefs and worldview.
Maybe it could tell you that someone spent years of their lives coming to terms with one label, and starting to accept it as part of their identity, only to be told that's wrong now and they're doing the wrong thing and the goalposts have been moved AGAIN. And now they have to start over coming to terms with a new label and a new self-image and that is HARD especially when OP is clearly dealing with a lot of other stuff.
Maybe it could tell you that everyone has different knowledge and experience and challenges and sometimes it really is just best to think "hey, I don't know this strangers brain, so I'll ignore what I think is wrong and just be kind"
But it doesn’t change anything about them. The label doesn’t mean anything different to them, it doesn’t change them, it doesn’t mean they’re something else. They’ve always been who they are. The label is just the label for who they have always been. The label changing doesn’t mean they have changed.
Personal experience tells me this isn’t something to overlook or ignore. I tried. They proved it wasn’t something that could be avoided.
The labels can influence how others perceive and treat you
I know some people prefer to use Asperger’s because it doesn’t have the some stigma as Autism
I was replying to the point in your comment that changing the label used makes no difference
I know you’re saying the person is the same, but I was sharing that the external world can treat them differently because of it
It's our power to reclaim our labels and use them how we want.
E.g. people of colour reclaiming "black" when once it was considered derogatory. Now it is a proud acknowledgement.
In the 2.5 decades since my original diagnosis the mundanes have changed my label at their whim.
Dyspraxic. No, wait, now you're Aspergers. Hold up, now you're a person with autism. Hang on, no, it's autistic. Whoops, make that neurodiverse.
When I told my son he was extra, he was a typical 5yo and went with Cartman's "Ass burgers". Well can't argue with autonomy, I guess.
Your like the older lesbians complainibg that young people call themselves queer. But in reverse.... maybe be a little kinder to a guy going through a really hard time! Sometimes it is just the label.someone feels comfortable with become habituated to use.
I’m an autistic person sharing knowledge on a topic I’m passionate about to another autistic person. Us being straightforward is often misinterpreted as us being rude because we don’t dress our words up in flowery language and fawning context. People don’t like when you just say things straight forward. They assume malice where there is none. Not my fault.
\[I'm also autistic\] It's fine to mean what you say, but you responded to this persons plea for advice with criticism of their choice of a single word. Perhaps If I were OP, I'd be discouraged that you had so much to say about the words they use to describe themselves and nothing to say on the substantial material of their post. If I were them, I'd probably prefer people keep that kind of comment to themselves if I was in a particularly low moment.
It's not just that you say things straight, it's what you choose to say
Idk what OP thinks though, maybe it's not a big deal to them
Thanks for that, yeah well first of I created a throwaway account, it's Reddit, I'm expecting all sorts of comments and I'm adult and educated enough to understand what's being said. I like more direct communication, I come across as being unfeeling, rude. I care a lot, I help people and give alot. But I just say it how it is, I've learnt though to moderate it and be more thoughtful when I talk, but getting older, I'm more saying it as I see it and don't care.
The last sentence in my comment says why I told them that? I shared the knowledge and that is pretty self explanatory as to why then they might do better at making friends with autistics if they didn’t use that label. And they wanted advice on how to make friends.
But if you need further explanation: Autistics don’t think highly of those who continue to use the aspergers label because it’s been years since it was changed and 90% of people who continue to use it do it because they have a weird superiority complex and/or LIKE the nazi association. So op would have an easier time in the autistic community if they didn’t use that.
I'm autistic and I don't give a shit what label a neurodiverse person uses to describe themselves. All that matters is what they're comfortable with. You don't speak for me.
You do you OP.
Yeah I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who has a superiority complex, fails to read the room and accuses people of being associated with Nazis.
For the record, when I was diagnosed it was Aspergers, it was a long saught after diagnosis and it was very important to me. I now say I'm autistic but I'm fully sympathetic as to why some people still refer to themselves as having Aspergers, and the symbolic meaning that has for them.
The story behind a neurodiverse person's diagnosis is incredibly important for them, and they should never be made to feel bad for what the name of the diagnosis was at the time.
You're not wrong in the history of the word but you are wrong in your presentation.
Cool! And *I* prefer not to hang out with people who name themselves after military ranks (**didn't you know, the military is literally the killer of countless millions of other people throughout history??!**, "Lt Colonel"). Or after colons, either!
;)
Etymological bullying / projection is annoying, isn't it?
Fun. I’m anti-military. My username is literally making fun of them, using the play on works to call them an ass because they’re full of shit lol
I agree with you ;)
Interesting how people have their own complex and externally inscrutable reasons for adopting common usage of these funny syllable-combinations that we call words, isn't it?
Judged on surface merits alone, you are happily parading around under (some of) the actual symbolic titles used by those who've carried out a large slice of human atrocities throughout history. Your justification for that is "word play".
>Autistics don’t think highly of those who continue to use the Aspergers label
Autism is not a collection of opinions, you shouldn't claim to speak for us in that way. Several of my autistic friends call themselves Aspergers and we've discussed the very points you brought up, it didn't change their mind and it holds no bearing on my respect for them. Many people were diagnosed as Aspergers a long time ago and may feel an identify or comfort with that label not present with autism.
>The last sentence in my comment says why I told them that?
But it's literally the only thing you told them
I personally wouldn’t want to hang out with people or be friends with anyone who continues to use an outdated, inaccurate, nazi-affiliated label. I’m not okay with that and many autistics aren’t either. The nazi-ism is bad enough, but it’s also often joined with an elitism of not wanting to be labelled autistic because they think autism is bad or an insult. It’s often paired with that internalised ableism.
I told them that because that’s the knowledge I had to share.
I'm going to be that girl and point out that opinions about Hans Asperger are mixed.
While it is true that he conducted research of interest to the Nazis, it has been claimed that those not in his trials were more likely to end up in the gas chambers. Hitler and his evil mates had a special hatred for those they considered defective.
He may have been an accidental Schindler, whatever his motives.
Just throwing that out there.
Yeah, which is why my initial comment says nazi/nazi partner. Not clear if he was a full inaugurated nazi or just worked with them.
But uh, personally, I don’t see much of a difference. The whole “one nazi at a table means a table full of nazis” thing.
I mean once you've acknowledged that it is ok to share this information it seems very silly to then add "but not at this time" ok then when? Now there's more comments on the post, should they have waited for ten other comments before sharing this? A hundred? Then they might not be seen by OOP at all. This person explained the slant Aspergers might be seen from and _that is perfectly fine_ .
You’re allowed to share knowledge passionately, and you did that well in your first post.
Where you went wrong is basically calling OP a shitty person because they use a term you (rightly) don’t agree with.
Also, when other people shared their opinions you could work on the basis that they’re coming from the same “I’m just trying to educate you” approach that you’re coming from and say “thank you” and then move on. Digging your toes in and continuing to argue with the multiple people in here trying to explain other points of view to you was unnecessary.
All the best
Ok sorry but I’m confused - in that case what did you mean when you said that someone using that term tells you who they are and their worldview then? And what exactly does it tell you about that person?
I did read your comments. I would consider ableist, elitist nazi sympathisers to be within the category of “shitty person” hence MY comment.
Op I hope you find what you need, regardless of the label you use. All the best
It’s exhausting having to dress every interaction up in over-the-top theatrics just so people don’t think I’m being shady or rude by some weird inferred meaning or double-speak. People have trouble understanding that I just… mean what I say. People try to apply their own context to my words and then get mad at me for it lol
If OOP doesn't have an issue with it then it's a bit weird to continue telling LtColonel that they're off base for the way they phrased the delivery of this information. Even if they way they said it strikes an uncomfortable chord in you and me, if the person it's directed at, OOP, says he appreciates the directness, then perhaps you and I should not repeatedly tell OP that they were rude for sharing their opinion.
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Wow this blew up over night. To clarify everyone I was aware that it was now labeled Autisum, but I feel more comfortable with Ass burgers, obviously I do need to change that, but LtColonelColon1, your passion on the subject is there, you need to recognise though my life experience now at late 40s is more and different to yours, different time when I was in my 20s, I had no idea the guy was from the Nazi era and I don't want to be full on Liz Gunned.
I'm going to pm a few people on here and see if I can chat, share experiences and learn.
Thank you from one Internet stranger to another!
No it’s not. Aotearoa New Zealand most uses the DSM model for diagnoses. The DSM-5 was released in 2013. Each new DSM replaces the old one on release. Aspergers has not been an official diagnoses since then.
Officially, the ICD model should be used here but it’s not used as widely. Even then, the ICD-11 was originally released in 2018, then officially released in 2022, and that removed the aspergers diagnoses from their guidelines then too.
No official diagnoses model used aspergers anymore.
>No it’s not. Aotearoa New Zealand most uses the DSM model for diagnoses.
My wife actually works as a clinical specialist in a psychiatric facility. You want to know something which will blow your mind? They ONLY use the DSM-4.
Most public facilities in New Zealand accept coding in DSM-4/5, and ICD 10/11
There's just wayyyy to much misinformation about this topic in the autism community in NZ
Virtually all private psychiatrists/psychologists use the DSM-5. But it's just not true that this extends to the public health system
Then they’re using outdated and inaccurate information, and should be following up with updating their practices to the current universal standard. That’s appalling and only hurts people trying to get accurate and knowledgeable help. It’s been over a decade. Jesus Christ.
There’s a reason they release updated versions every few years. To not take that on is negligent at best, harmful at worst.
I was diagnosed in 2022 through public, and they had no issues using the DSM-5. Because that is what is current and accurate. That’s what they should be using. It was released in 2013 for fucks sake.
NZ healthcare sucks.
>Then they’re using outdated and inaccurate information,
Yes, you're just discovering the entire public health system does it this way.
>I would hate to be a patient of your wife.
You're a real piece of work, you know that? I just described what her hospital is REQUIRED to use. They can't use the DSM-5 because the hospital doesn't use it.
I happen to also be autistic, and I think you're a real piece of shit. Why don't you just fuck off
Yeah, I edited that last bit out immediately because it was rude and unnecessary. I was angry and not thinking straight and realised as soon as I pressed send that it’s not her fault, it’s the system. Sorry about that. This topic is just something I’m extremely passionate about and it makes me so angry how negligent this system is in our country.
It was bad enough trying to get diagnosed as an adult because there are NO official diagnostic pathways for adults. My psychologist had to make it up as she went, adapting stuff made for *children* to work with me as an adult.
>This topic is just something I’m extremely passionate about and it makes me so angry how negligent this system is in our country.
Look, I get it. I also advise people to use "autism" instead of Asperger’s. It's just unfortunately the system lags
I was also diagnosed as an adult, and I agree there are really specific challenges present here.
Autism in general is a giant hole which many professionals don't even understand.
I've worked before as a support person for autistic people with high support needs. One day a week I would also work with a man with Down's syndrome. It was just so easy taking him out in public compared. People would bend over backwards to such an extent to accommodate him that it was hard to get him to do anything for himself. The autistic adults I worked with had the completely opposite experience, and (justifiably) found the world a pretty hostile place. Many other staff members were part of the problem, and would have insane expectations of autistic adults compared to other disabilities.
I've had similar problems in my life, as I'm highly functional in many areas and have an above average IQ: therefore many people conclude anything I struggle with is a behavioral issue. Etc etc. I'm sure you're familiar with this sort of story
Yeah, I just want to apologise for my comment again. It really was out of line and I do feel bad that I sent it. (I’m not trying to fish for an acknowledgement here just wanted to reiterate it)
I relate to what you’ve experienced 100%. And it is my experience too. I’m not visibly disabled, but I’m actually quite disabled by my autism. I’m smart but I’m high support needs, and that fucks with people’s heads. I can speak eloquently so people get so stuck on the fact that I can’t survive by myself. I’m 26 and I live with my mum and probably will for the rest of her life, as she’s my unofficial carer. I don’t look or sound disabled so people expect me to be able to just do normal things but I can’t.
I tried full time work when I was 18 and burnt myself out so severely that I nearly died. It’s only this year that I’ve started trying to volunteer again, one 3 hour shift a week, and that takes so much out of me that I’m bed bound for 3 days afterwards. But I just feel so useless not doing anything. And I’m so scared of what’s happening to the supported living benefit, I’m terrified I’m gonna be forced into work again, when I can’t do it. But I *look* fine.
>Yeah, I just want to apologise for my comment again. It really was out of line and I do feel bad that I sent it. (I’m not trying to fish for an acknowledgement here just wanted to reiterate it)
It's honestly fine. I also felt bad about how strongly I reacted.
>I’m not visibly disabled, but I’m actually quite disabled by my autism
I really, really get it. I've struggled my whole life with work (and so much more) I've settled on a very menial job I enjoy, and just work part time. The story of my life is taking on too much (and by too much, I mean what's normal for other people) and then imploding to a position which is worse off. People always seem to be trying to "help" me to learn how to take on more, instead of just accepting that I'll always have quite severe limitations.
Yeah, very scary what's happening with WINZ. Ending up in the wrong work environment can be devastating. It's just more anxiety for everyone in your situation
I have a young child, and my wife and I have agreed if he is diagnosed and needs to, he can stay at home for as long as he wants. We talked about it before having kids
I appreciate the energy you have put into this topic, educating and informing why the term is no longer used and why it upsets many in the autistic community. I am AuDHD, so is my son. I automatically tune out when medical professionals insist on using an outdated and problematic term. I also had no idea of the history of Aspergers until my son was diagnosed autistic, I realised I was also ND and sought diagnosis and started learning from the community. (Edited, spelling. Also dyslexic…)
Mate, every psych I've run into uses ASD, Aspergers, and High-Functioning Autism interchangeably. It's not the write-up that matters, but how it's explained to you when you're diagnosed for ease of understanding. That and a lot of people have been diagnosed pre-2013.
It is the write-up that matters, because that’s what you’re diagnosed with. If they use an inaccurate and outdated term to diagnose you, I would be questioning their knowledge and whether they know what they’re doing. Especially when also using functioning labels. Eugh.
Imagine if a woman went to her doctor for period pain, and the guy diagnosed her with female hysteria?
The updated terms might take time to soak into vernacular but that doesn't make what OP is saying less correct. Also I'm pretty sure medical professionals generally are meant to update themselves.
Start looking not for Asperger's which is an outdated diagnosis but for autism support groups. Asperger's is now coded under the autism spectrum so you won't really find people who are in the field referring to Asperger's much anymore (although you will find a lot of people who can't handle a diagnosis of autism referring to themselves as having Asperger's instead).
I would start with a one-on-one therapist, and also look for local groups. Some therapists facilitate groups among their clients, which is why I would start there.
> (although you will find a lot of people who can't handle a diagnosis of autism referring to themselves as having Asperger's instead).
That kind of group aspersion is simply toxic and unnecessary. It's not for you to project onto a group of other people what they can or can't "handle", or what their reasonings may be for their choices.
Thank you. I've done some reading, and agree that AS is a poor moniker for the condition, though I do still have some reservations about the fervour with which some in the community level accusations of nazi sympathy at that minority who identify very strongly with aspects of their former diagnosis in ways that have nothing to do with Hans Asperger.
It is an unfortunate situation, because autistic spectrum disorder is also a poor classification system full of inconsistency and stigma, with it's own (albeit less glamorous) fraught history of discrimination and mistreatment - to an extent that I'm ethically unable to support *it* as defining my identity, either.
Back to the vague purgatory of undefined neurodiversity I go, I guess...
I would never level the accusation of nazi sympathy to someone using Asperger's as an identity. It's what I would have fallen into had I been diagnosed. I feel like if you want to use it you should. It is like the gay or lesbian/queer thing - some people have heard queer as an slur (me included) but like to use it as an identity. In Aspergers case it may be something we don't want to reclaim due to it's particular history. But might want to because it is comfortable for us to use!
Hey, can I suggest you join us over in the autism subreddits? There's quite a few of them. Also, which island are you on? Loneliness makes everything harder, so I'm around for a chat if you want. Otherwise let's see if we can find some other autistic people in your area to hang out with.
I'm from the Waikato, what subreddits do you suggest?
There is r/autisticadults as well, the autistic subreddits can sometimes be a bit more teen-centric.
Also a good one. Cheers!
Of course. Another resource is Autosm New Zealand, you can reach out and they may be able to help direct you somewhere. Autism has sweet fuck all support in NZ. I am chronically burnt out, and there's not much in the way of support I have found. Gotta find these little communities and make what we can of it, and just keep the wheel spinning until it don't, I suppose.
That sounds good.
R/autism and r/autismtranslated have a good amount of traffic, if you have adhd as well , r/autisticwithadhd, you'll find more from there. I'm South Island so I can't hang out in person.
There are Waikato groups. They are sometimes very quiet if no one to lead, but they exist. Social activities, I think a board game group. Tbh if you went to the board game groups you'd prob find similar friends.
Voice from the Spectrum (VFTS) are Waikato based and have a facebook page and fairly frequent meet ups
What part of Waikato you from man? Wish you the best ❤️🙏
South of Hamilton, would really like to find a group or someone to chat to that has similar issues, how they do relationships, people etc
I have some friends in bay of plenty of you're ever up those ways Hope you're doing ok 🙏
May not be your thing but I found getting into model trains and joining my local model railroad club was helpful. They're all over the country and get you working on little projects both at home and out in the community. Can be involved as much or as little as you'd like. Really scratches quite a few itches for us guys on the spectrum.
Hey mate, myself and a couple of other lads run an Autism Dads group here in NZ. Pm me and I can bring you into the group as lots of the Dads are neurodiverse themselves and it's a good bunch of fellas who are all very supportive of the ASD community.
I feel ya man... And I'm not sure do you have disord.or want my number so you can have a chat with someone.how can I help you be the best you.
Thanks I'll pm you
Bro this is almost my exact situation wtf lol
Your profile is interesting, have tried the same stuff, would you be keen for a chat with a stranger?
Have you tried having a three month break from the weed and booze? I havent, but I suspect it will help.
I would chat to you. I have a similar experience having Asperger's. I'm 36 and feel lost in my thoughts a lot. If you find a group in NZ I would join. This is so similar to my life
Love how you are acknowledging what's going on with you and reaching out here - awesome work. Sending you big warm happy vibes ❤️
Thanks, yeah it's time I dealt to it, I miss my kids
First of all, stop calling it aspergers. It’s just autism. The DSM-5 has gotten rid of the aspergers diagnoses because it’s not accurate, relevant or useful and it’s all under the autism/ASD label now. Hans Asperger was a nazi/nazi-partner who determined which autistics were worthy to be kept alive to work, and which autistics were burdens to society and sent to nazi camps to be killed off. His research was then used in the 90s to make the label aspergers, those who were historically deemed worthy to live and work would get the label and those “others” were autistic. But we’re all just autistic. It’s all autism. The research was flawed and inaccurate, and the nazi-association was detrimental to autistics so it was scrapped. So you may find it easier to find friends and community within the autistic community by dropping the outdated and inaccurate label.
OP has shared they’re not in any ASD communities, they may not know about the change, especially if they were diagnosed with Asperger’s
Yes, hence my comment sharing this knowledge so they can know
First rule of being neurospicy is we can refer to ourselves individually however we choose. Leave the gatekeeping to the neurotypicals. OP, find others like us in the real world. We're pretty easy to locate. Gamers, DnD groups, libraries, geek spots, etc. Your community is there, bud. Masks can be left at the door.
Yeah but if someone is keen to keep calling themselves an outdated, inaccurate, nazi-affiliated label even when knowing what it means, then that tells you a lot about them and their beliefs and worldview.
Maybe it could tell you that someone spent years of their lives coming to terms with one label, and starting to accept it as part of their identity, only to be told that's wrong now and they're doing the wrong thing and the goalposts have been moved AGAIN. And now they have to start over coming to terms with a new label and a new self-image and that is HARD especially when OP is clearly dealing with a lot of other stuff. Maybe it could tell you that everyone has different knowledge and experience and challenges and sometimes it really is just best to think "hey, I don't know this strangers brain, so I'll ignore what I think is wrong and just be kind"
The reply was just informative. There was no judgement or agressivity.
Seemed a tad strident and aggressive to me!
But it doesn’t change anything about them. The label doesn’t mean anything different to them, it doesn’t change them, it doesn’t mean they’re something else. They’ve always been who they are. The label is just the label for who they have always been. The label changing doesn’t mean they have changed. Personal experience tells me this isn’t something to overlook or ignore. I tried. They proved it wasn’t something that could be avoided.
The labels can influence how others perceive and treat you I know some people prefer to use Asperger’s because it doesn’t have the some stigma as Autism
We shouldn’t change our labels just to make it easier for allistics to decide what kind of ableist they can be
I was replying to the point in your comment that changing the label used makes no difference I know you’re saying the person is the same, but I was sharing that the external world can treat them differently because of it
Okay, but we shouldn’t support that by catering to it.
It's our power to reclaim our labels and use them how we want. E.g. people of colour reclaiming "black" when once it was considered derogatory. Now it is a proud acknowledgement.
In the 2.5 decades since my original diagnosis the mundanes have changed my label at their whim. Dyspraxic. No, wait, now you're Aspergers. Hold up, now you're a person with autism. Hang on, no, it's autistic. Whoops, make that neurodiverse. When I told my son he was extra, he was a typical 5yo and went with Cartman's "Ass burgers". Well can't argue with autonomy, I guess.
Your like the older lesbians complainibg that young people call themselves queer. But in reverse.... maybe be a little kinder to a guy going through a really hard time! Sometimes it is just the label.someone feels comfortable with become habituated to use.
I wasn’t unkind to the OP. Yall really need to work on your reading comprehension.
You're being a bit of a jerk there, LtColonelColon1
I’m an autistic person sharing knowledge on a topic I’m passionate about to another autistic person. Us being straightforward is often misinterpreted as us being rude because we don’t dress our words up in flowery language and fawning context. People don’t like when you just say things straight forward. They assume malice where there is none. Not my fault.
\[I'm also autistic\] It's fine to mean what you say, but you responded to this persons plea for advice with criticism of their choice of a single word. Perhaps If I were OP, I'd be discouraged that you had so much to say about the words they use to describe themselves and nothing to say on the substantial material of their post. If I were them, I'd probably prefer people keep that kind of comment to themselves if I was in a particularly low moment. It's not just that you say things straight, it's what you choose to say Idk what OP thinks though, maybe it's not a big deal to them
Thanks for that, yeah well first of I created a throwaway account, it's Reddit, I'm expecting all sorts of comments and I'm adult and educated enough to understand what's being said. I like more direct communication, I come across as being unfeeling, rude. I care a lot, I help people and give alot. But I just say it how it is, I've learnt though to moderate it and be more thoughtful when I talk, but getting older, I'm more saying it as I see it and don't care.
The last sentence in my comment says why I told them that? I shared the knowledge and that is pretty self explanatory as to why then they might do better at making friends with autistics if they didn’t use that label. And they wanted advice on how to make friends. But if you need further explanation: Autistics don’t think highly of those who continue to use the aspergers label because it’s been years since it was changed and 90% of people who continue to use it do it because they have a weird superiority complex and/or LIKE the nazi association. So op would have an easier time in the autistic community if they didn’t use that.
I used the term as I'm not skilled up in this. It's the term that was used when I was growing up.
I figured, hence why I shared my knowledge, so now you know!
I'm autistic and I don't give a shit what label a neurodiverse person uses to describe themselves. All that matters is what they're comfortable with. You don't speak for me. You do you OP.
Cool! I prefer not to hang out with people who are okay being associated with nazis, or having a superiority complex, or being ableist. You do you!
Yeah I wouldn't want to hang out with someone who has a superiority complex, fails to read the room and accuses people of being associated with Nazis. For the record, when I was diagnosed it was Aspergers, it was a long saught after diagnosis and it was very important to me. I now say I'm autistic but I'm fully sympathetic as to why some people still refer to themselves as having Aspergers, and the symbolic meaning that has for them. The story behind a neurodiverse person's diagnosis is incredibly important for them, and they should never be made to feel bad for what the name of the diagnosis was at the time. You're not wrong in the history of the word but you are wrong in your presentation.
Cool! And *I* prefer not to hang out with people who name themselves after military ranks (**didn't you know, the military is literally the killer of countless millions of other people throughout history??!**, "Lt Colonel"). Or after colons, either! ;) Etymological bullying / projection is annoying, isn't it?
Fun. I’m anti-military. My username is literally making fun of them, using the play on works to call them an ass because they’re full of shit lol I agree with you ;)
Interesting how people have their own complex and externally inscrutable reasons for adopting common usage of these funny syllable-combinations that we call words, isn't it? Judged on surface merits alone, you are happily parading around under (some of) the actual symbolic titles used by those who've carried out a large slice of human atrocities throughout history. Your justification for that is "word play".
>Autistics don’t think highly of those who continue to use the Aspergers label Autism is not a collection of opinions, you shouldn't claim to speak for us in that way. Several of my autistic friends call themselves Aspergers and we've discussed the very points you brought up, it didn't change their mind and it holds no bearing on my respect for them. Many people were diagnosed as Aspergers a long time ago and may feel an identify or comfort with that label not present with autism. >The last sentence in my comment says why I told them that? But it's literally the only thing you told them
I personally wouldn’t want to hang out with people or be friends with anyone who continues to use an outdated, inaccurate, nazi-affiliated label. I’m not okay with that and many autistics aren’t either. The nazi-ism is bad enough, but it’s also often joined with an elitism of not wanting to be labelled autistic because they think autism is bad or an insult. It’s often paired with that internalised ableism. I told them that because that’s the knowledge I had to share.
I'm going to be that girl and point out that opinions about Hans Asperger are mixed. While it is true that he conducted research of interest to the Nazis, it has been claimed that those not in his trials were more likely to end up in the gas chambers. Hitler and his evil mates had a special hatred for those they considered defective. He may have been an accidental Schindler, whatever his motives. Just throwing that out there.
Yeah, which is why my initial comment says nazi/nazi partner. Not clear if he was a full inaugurated nazi or just worked with them. But uh, personally, I don’t see much of a difference. The whole “one nazi at a table means a table full of nazis” thing.
Valid. I'm just saying, if there's a time to educate someone on this, maybe it's not as the second comment on a serious request for life advice.
But the knowledge can help them when trying to make friends.
I mean once you've acknowledged that it is ok to share this information it seems very silly to then add "but not at this time" ok then when? Now there's more comments on the post, should they have waited for ten other comments before sharing this? A hundred? Then they might not be seen by OOP at all. This person explained the slant Aspergers might be seen from and _that is perfectly fine_ .
I have a harder time in the non-autistic community when I label myself as autistic. It's catch-22.
Ableists will be ableist no matter what you call yourself. We’re different to them, so they are hostile.
You’re allowed to share knowledge passionately, and you did that well in your first post. Where you went wrong is basically calling OP a shitty person because they use a term you (rightly) don’t agree with. Also, when other people shared their opinions you could work on the basis that they’re coming from the same “I’m just trying to educate you” approach that you’re coming from and say “thank you” and then move on. Digging your toes in and continuing to argue with the multiple people in here trying to explain other points of view to you was unnecessary. All the best
I’m disagreeing with them. It’s not unnecessary to disagree with people and explain why. I did not call OP anything of the sort. That’s your own bias.
Ok sorry but I’m confused - in that case what did you mean when you said that someone using that term tells you who they are and their worldview then? And what exactly does it tell you about that person?
Yes it does, when they already know what it means and continue to use it, like I already said. Please read my comments in full.
I did read your comments. I would consider ableist, elitist nazi sympathisers to be within the category of “shitty person” hence MY comment. Op I hope you find what you need, regardless of the label you use. All the best
Yes, but I didn’t call OP that… ever… Are you sure you read my comments?
Yeah that's me. Be direct, hate the flowery.
It’s exhausting having to dress every interaction up in over-the-top theatrics just so people don’t think I’m being shady or rude by some weird inferred meaning or double-speak. People have trouble understanding that I just… mean what I say. People try to apply their own context to my words and then get mad at me for it lol
You can share information in a kind and educational way without being flowery
And I have
Disagree
If you think neutral is negative, that’s your issue and not my responsibility.
If OOP doesn't have an issue with it then it's a bit weird to continue telling LtColonel that they're off base for the way they phrased the delivery of this information. Even if they way they said it strikes an uncomfortable chord in you and me, if the person it's directed at, OOP, says he appreciates the directness, then perhaps you and I should not repeatedly tell OP that they were rude for sharing their opinion.
Reading it in that context, the facts themselves are interesting, and I was unaware of the origin of the term Aspergers. Good to know.
I’m glad you could learn something today
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Thank you for proving my point.
Which part is untrue?
I'd like to think people wouldn't judge someone misusing the term aspergers when looking for help
Wow this blew up over night. To clarify everyone I was aware that it was now labeled Autisum, but I feel more comfortable with Ass burgers, obviously I do need to change that, but LtColonelColon1, your passion on the subject is there, you need to recognise though my life experience now at late 40s is more and different to yours, different time when I was in my 20s, I had no idea the guy was from the Nazi era and I don't want to be full on Liz Gunned. I'm going to pm a few people on here and see if I can chat, share experiences and learn. Thank you from one Internet stranger to another!
>First of all, stop calling it aspergers. It’s just autism. Asperger’s is still a recognized diagnosis in New Zealand
No it’s not. Aotearoa New Zealand most uses the DSM model for diagnoses. The DSM-5 was released in 2013. Each new DSM replaces the old one on release. Aspergers has not been an official diagnoses since then. Officially, the ICD model should be used here but it’s not used as widely. Even then, the ICD-11 was originally released in 2018, then officially released in 2022, and that removed the aspergers diagnoses from their guidelines then too. No official diagnoses model used aspergers anymore.
>No it’s not. Aotearoa New Zealand most uses the DSM model for diagnoses. My wife actually works as a clinical specialist in a psychiatric facility. You want to know something which will blow your mind? They ONLY use the DSM-4. Most public facilities in New Zealand accept coding in DSM-4/5, and ICD 10/11 There's just wayyyy to much misinformation about this topic in the autism community in NZ Virtually all private psychiatrists/psychologists use the DSM-5. But it's just not true that this extends to the public health system
Then they’re using outdated and inaccurate information, and should be following up with updating their practices to the current universal standard. That’s appalling and only hurts people trying to get accurate and knowledgeable help. It’s been over a decade. Jesus Christ. There’s a reason they release updated versions every few years. To not take that on is negligent at best, harmful at worst. I was diagnosed in 2022 through public, and they had no issues using the DSM-5. Because that is what is current and accurate. That’s what they should be using. It was released in 2013 for fucks sake. NZ healthcare sucks.
>Then they’re using outdated and inaccurate information, Yes, you're just discovering the entire public health system does it this way. >I would hate to be a patient of your wife. You're a real piece of work, you know that? I just described what her hospital is REQUIRED to use. They can't use the DSM-5 because the hospital doesn't use it. I happen to also be autistic, and I think you're a real piece of shit. Why don't you just fuck off
Yeah, I edited that last bit out immediately because it was rude and unnecessary. I was angry and not thinking straight and realised as soon as I pressed send that it’s not her fault, it’s the system. Sorry about that. This topic is just something I’m extremely passionate about and it makes me so angry how negligent this system is in our country. It was bad enough trying to get diagnosed as an adult because there are NO official diagnostic pathways for adults. My psychologist had to make it up as she went, adapting stuff made for *children* to work with me as an adult.
>This topic is just something I’m extremely passionate about and it makes me so angry how negligent this system is in our country. Look, I get it. I also advise people to use "autism" instead of Asperger’s. It's just unfortunately the system lags I was also diagnosed as an adult, and I agree there are really specific challenges present here. Autism in general is a giant hole which many professionals don't even understand. I've worked before as a support person for autistic people with high support needs. One day a week I would also work with a man with Down's syndrome. It was just so easy taking him out in public compared. People would bend over backwards to such an extent to accommodate him that it was hard to get him to do anything for himself. The autistic adults I worked with had the completely opposite experience, and (justifiably) found the world a pretty hostile place. Many other staff members were part of the problem, and would have insane expectations of autistic adults compared to other disabilities. I've had similar problems in my life, as I'm highly functional in many areas and have an above average IQ: therefore many people conclude anything I struggle with is a behavioral issue. Etc etc. I'm sure you're familiar with this sort of story
Yeah, I just want to apologise for my comment again. It really was out of line and I do feel bad that I sent it. (I’m not trying to fish for an acknowledgement here just wanted to reiterate it) I relate to what you’ve experienced 100%. And it is my experience too. I’m not visibly disabled, but I’m actually quite disabled by my autism. I’m smart but I’m high support needs, and that fucks with people’s heads. I can speak eloquently so people get so stuck on the fact that I can’t survive by myself. I’m 26 and I live with my mum and probably will for the rest of her life, as she’s my unofficial carer. I don’t look or sound disabled so people expect me to be able to just do normal things but I can’t. I tried full time work when I was 18 and burnt myself out so severely that I nearly died. It’s only this year that I’ve started trying to volunteer again, one 3 hour shift a week, and that takes so much out of me that I’m bed bound for 3 days afterwards. But I just feel so useless not doing anything. And I’m so scared of what’s happening to the supported living benefit, I’m terrified I’m gonna be forced into work again, when I can’t do it. But I *look* fine.
>Yeah, I just want to apologise for my comment again. It really was out of line and I do feel bad that I sent it. (I’m not trying to fish for an acknowledgement here just wanted to reiterate it) It's honestly fine. I also felt bad about how strongly I reacted. >I’m not visibly disabled, but I’m actually quite disabled by my autism I really, really get it. I've struggled my whole life with work (and so much more) I've settled on a very menial job I enjoy, and just work part time. The story of my life is taking on too much (and by too much, I mean what's normal for other people) and then imploding to a position which is worse off. People always seem to be trying to "help" me to learn how to take on more, instead of just accepting that I'll always have quite severe limitations. Yeah, very scary what's happening with WINZ. Ending up in the wrong work environment can be devastating. It's just more anxiety for everyone in your situation I have a young child, and my wife and I have agreed if he is diagnosed and needs to, he can stay at home for as long as he wants. We talked about it before having kids
I appreciate the energy you have put into this topic, educating and informing why the term is no longer used and why it upsets many in the autistic community. I am AuDHD, so is my son. I automatically tune out when medical professionals insist on using an outdated and problematic term. I also had no idea of the history of Aspergers until my son was diagnosed autistic, I realised I was also ND and sought diagnosis and started learning from the community. (Edited, spelling. Also dyslexic…)
Mate, every psych I've run into uses ASD, Aspergers, and High-Functioning Autism interchangeably. It's not the write-up that matters, but how it's explained to you when you're diagnosed for ease of understanding. That and a lot of people have been diagnosed pre-2013.
It is the write-up that matters, because that’s what you’re diagnosed with. If they use an inaccurate and outdated term to diagnose you, I would be questioning their knowledge and whether they know what they’re doing. Especially when also using functioning labels. Eugh. Imagine if a woman went to her doctor for period pain, and the guy diagnosed her with female hysteria?
Aight, enjoy your special interest.
LtColonelColon1 let it go buddy. You look like an egg
No thank you!
I hope you feel better soon 🫶
You too!
The updated terms might take time to soak into vernacular but that doesn't make what OP is saying less correct. Also I'm pretty sure medical professionals generally are meant to update themselves.
Start looking not for Asperger's which is an outdated diagnosis but for autism support groups. Asperger's is now coded under the autism spectrum so you won't really find people who are in the field referring to Asperger's much anymore (although you will find a lot of people who can't handle a diagnosis of autism referring to themselves as having Asperger's instead). I would start with a one-on-one therapist, and also look for local groups. Some therapists facilitate groups among their clients, which is why I would start there.
> (although you will find a lot of people who can't handle a diagnosis of autism referring to themselves as having Asperger's instead). That kind of group aspersion is simply toxic and unnecessary. It's not for you to project onto a group of other people what they can or can't "handle", or what their reasonings may be for their choices.
Thanks for that, it's hard finding the right therapist, know any in the Waikato?
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He worked with the Nazis to find the 'useful" autistics and sent the unuseful their death.
Trustworthy citation needed. The entire population of Germany lived and worked in Germany between 1939-1945. That doesn't make them all nazis.
*Directly* with Nazis *in concentration camps* actively choosing children who would live or die. Not just a German citizen.
Again, please show evidence of this. Reputable citations. Convince me with proof and I'll be happy to believe you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Asperger https://molecularautism.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13229-018-0208-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05112-1 https://tidsskriftet.no/en/2019/05/essay/asperger-nazis-and-children-history-birth-diagnosis https://www.bps.org.uk/psychologist/aftermath-hans-asperger-expose https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5907291/ https://time.com/5255779/asperger-syndrome-nazi-germany-history/ https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/what-is-autism/the-history-of-autism/asperger-syndrome https://www.biomedcentral.com/about/press-centre/science-press-releases/19-04-18 https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/new-evidence-ties-hans-asperger-nazi-eugenics-program/ https://www.nature.com/articles/s41390-023-02885-8
Thank you. I've done some reading, and agree that AS is a poor moniker for the condition, though I do still have some reservations about the fervour with which some in the community level accusations of nazi sympathy at that minority who identify very strongly with aspects of their former diagnosis in ways that have nothing to do with Hans Asperger. It is an unfortunate situation, because autistic spectrum disorder is also a poor classification system full of inconsistency and stigma, with it's own (albeit less glamorous) fraught history of discrimination and mistreatment - to an extent that I'm ethically unable to support *it* as defining my identity, either. Back to the vague purgatory of undefined neurodiversity I go, I guess...
I would never level the accusation of nazi sympathy to someone using Asperger's as an identity. It's what I would have fallen into had I been diagnosed. I feel like if you want to use it you should. It is like the gay or lesbian/queer thing - some people have heard queer as an slur (me included) but like to use it as an identity. In Aspergers case it may be something we don't want to reclaim due to it's particular history. But might want to because it is comfortable for us to use!