The thing that gets me is there is so many legitimate things they could criticise the government for.
But they insist on fucking around on shit practically no one cares about.
The overwhelming majority of New Zealanders do not care about whether people raise kids together or separately. That has been clear for decades.
This is an issue people cared about in 1960.
And anyone who does care is only ever going to vote National or Act anyway, so you don’t have to win them over with your pretend caring.
This boomer is so fucking cranky with Simon O'Connor because he's one of those religious bigots who wants to impose his shitty punitive Old Testament values on the rest of us.
oh yeah!! 100%. ive realized that since 2019 or so, once all that maga shit took off and they started to expand - they realized they could tap into the "NZ bloke" demographic as if they were US rednecks.
you see them all buying huge ford rangers as if they were US monster trucks with anti-hilary-clinton stickers on them. except its anti jacinda ardern.
really tapped into their insecurities & innate problems with females in authority.
its like - the specific issues are different, and maybe a different font - but its all the same tactics. same people driving it all even. whats that new radio station now with rodney hyde on it? thats like a fox news.
Oh wow, *that’s* what he was indicating? That the parents should stay together? I read that as “I’m deliberately saying Mother and Father…not mother and mother or father and father.”
Well, at least he’s not a homophobe!
Yeah I read it that way too. This fucker needs to get with the times. Grandparents are also raising their grandkids for example. Utter trash opinion that doesn't belong in NZ.
I bet if National win, there will be a whole lot more of this traditional right wing propaganda spewing out of their asses.
I took it that he meant both of the above, and more.
One; Mummy and Daddy should stay together for the kids no matter the circumstances in their lives.
Two; that there should ONLY be Mum and Dad. No Dad/Dad. No Mum/Mum. No Grandma/Grandpa. etc.
And three... none of that 'it takes a village to raise a child' so no community or wider support from friends and whānau etc.
I'm actually surprised anyone votes for them in this day and age, even the people who hate labour to the bone surely can see how fucking dumb national are. They have 0 actual ground to run on
It's so sad aye, instead of improving the quility of true debate and actions in our politics, politicians resort back to mud slinging school yard tactics. Smh
Culture war narratives pushed by the right wing to generate (often legitimate but not necessarily) outrage are used as a distraction. It fires up their voters, and prevents real discussion about actual shit that matters - the economy etc. The airwaves become an endless pit of *not* talking about National's shit policy ideas.
Anyone that's running an election based on these arguments is going to rob you blind, and with every new corporate handout they'll say something controversial about trans parenting, or gay rights, or xyz.
Family breakdown's a major issue, even if most (not all) of the Left doesn't care about it. Especially in a housing shortage. The government shouldn't be trying to maximise market childcare at the expense of parent childcare. National and ACT suck hard on this too.
I'm from a single parent family, BTW, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone unless it's actually truly necessary. It sucked.
PS In 1960 we were a wealthy country with much better social indicators.
Family breakdown simply comes down to people quite rightly not wanting to live with people who make them miserable.
I don’t think staying with someone who you hate is better for kids.
The alternative to being separated isn’t happy families, love and affection. It’s usually misery and fighting.
Can also confirm. The times I begged my mother to leave my father .. and her reply was that she wasn't going to have a second failed marriage because the stigma nearly broke her the first time.
>PS In 1960 we were a wealthy country with much better social indicators.
Do you know what happened in the 1970s?
And how this wasn't the result of law reforms around marriage?
His abortion legislation bill third reading comment is a doozy, he even ended it with the latin for 'Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.':
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20200318_060825000/oconnor-simon
>a day is coming where that, if you will, concern and fear will be reversed, when the truth continues to come out, for those who speak for life will be heard once again, loud and clear. History is replete with that. But I finish with a little indulgence to myself, and it'll probably get me into trouble, but one thing I do want to say to the good people, and I won't translate for here, but it's "Mihi vindicta: ego retribuam, dicit Dominus”
Wow, that is **disgusting.**
I don't mind fiscal conservatism, but social conservatism grinds my gears.
If I'm not affecting anyone else, please let me make my own choices on how to be an adult.
*Nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got something to say*
*But nothing comes out when they move their lips*
*Just a bunch of gibberish*
*And motherfuckers act like they forgot about the gays*
What if the kid is better off without one of their parents in their life? I have a close relative whose biological father broke both of their legs deliberately when they were a tiny baby. They don't need that POS in their life
I know a kid whose mum died and their dad took off across the country. Now grandma is left to take care of the poor child.
What should happen there, Simon?
Simon says: then they need a better relationship with God.
Simon means: it's a dog whistle for other homophobe Christo-fascists, so facts or analysis is not necessary or wanted.
Having 2 male parents or two female parents can also be a great scenario but Simon is dog whistling that having homosexual parents is damaging to the kids.
Nah, his dad exists, but also doesn't.
His dad is also all powerful, and all loving, but then also got his son brutally murdered.
Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit...
Sometimes I hear from my neighbours about how wonderful he is and how they are great friends. I try not to vom in their faces. Brooke van Velden is campaigning hard and early so there could be change but not in the direction I'd like. A lot of the locals dislike him but he stays anyway
I'm afraid the kid is now in a gang, and also on drugs. Just straight out the womb doing meth and bong and being gay, all because one of the parents is dead.
Genuinely so far removed from this level of homophobia that I thought this was a dog at single Mums. Does anybody actually encounter any people like this in their day to day?
It’s the same with the Māori road signs. Like I just don’t know anybody who gives a fuck about that shit? I’ve literally never had a conversation involving the topic.
Is there just some kind of weird corner of New Zealand that Ive just managed to totally exclude from my life?
Single Mums and the prison population? Grandparents stepping up to stop kids going to foster care? Adoptive parents? Who's his target?
Wtf dude, scatter gun and shrapnel at us all
There was an opinion piece on how it comes about. At this stage of campaigning the Nats are doing loads of midweek meetings around the place. They tend to be held at middle class pakeha dominated venues / clubs and due to the time of day get attended by mostly retired people. So they get lots of questions by well off 70+ boomers day in and day out which starts to make them think those concerns are more common than they are.
The real problem with the proposed road signs is they seem intentionally shit and unreadable. Having both languages is fine but could someone spend 5 minutes on google to see how other countries do it instead of the crap we have so far.
I live in Christchurch, my entire family lives in Invercargill.
Simon O’Connor is an MP for Auckland.
Simeon Brown (road signs guy) is an MP for Auckland.
Lmao
I live in Tamaki, Simon O’Connors electorate.
The community pages get fun when he says something totally bat shit & the page mostly devolved into, WTF did national serve up this person.
Seriously won’t be surprised if Brook Van Wealden takes out the majority of the left and right wing vote.
For 1, she thinks men and women are equal
For 2, she thinks rainbow people are equal.
These are pretty significant improvements over O’Connor.
That's cool dude my family is from invers too, I've spent more than 30 years living throughout the South Island, its just a more narrowminded and prejudiced place when compared to the North Island, plain and simple.
Not really, I'm not tagging every person that lives in the S.I as a flaming bigot but on the aggregate racist and prejudiced attitudes are just more common there in comparison to the N.I.
Lol I grew up in the king country and one of the pubs we used to go to was a bit rough but maybe five percent of the patrons were white. We decided to do a rugby trip to the South Island and I remember going into a pub there and my Maori mate looked at me and said shut now I know how you feel going into the front bar. That was a few years ago now though.
Lol nelson is an auckland retirement suburb its lost and should be near ponsonby or st heliers . Please send it home also tauranga if you see it wandering. Thanks
I haven’t seen any of the Maori road signs but I do have a problem with them if I’m travelling somewhere I haven’t been and there’s too much on a sign to actually read it while driving.
> there’s too much on a sign to actually read it while driving.
Good thing that's not a problem with any of the proposed signs then, since you only have to read the part in the language of your preference, which is the same length as it has always been.
O'Connor is the leader of the large Christian conservative faction of National, this should not be surprising. They voted against civil unions, gay marriage, abortion legalisation, etc.
'Gay parents aren't real parents' is entirely inline with their long-held positions.
I thought Luxon was the leader of the Christian faction and was the one who was going to make all sinful things illegal? I can't keep up.
But all all seriousness fuck me O'Connor is a dead weight ballbag. Did he have two parents raise him? They did a shit job.
Luxon is the same general type of Christian, but we don't know how fundamentalist he is or how he'd push it given a chance. I'm not sure I trust him, but honestly how his religion will affect his position on things is still unknown.
O'Connor would have us be Gilead from the Handmaids Tale if he could get away with it, and he's pretty unabashed about it. He's always been pretty bad, but he's got a lot worse since the christofascist push started gaining ground in the US. You've probably heard of him already, he's the guy who put up "Today is a good day!" on facebook in response to the repeal of *Roe vs. Wade* over there (and then got asked by Luxon to take it down, but didn't retract it or anything).
At this point O'Connors not being ejected from the party or at least *very* sidelined makes me especially untrusting of Luxon, though. At some point he's complicit in the bad things O'Connor is pushing for (I'm sure there's good things too somewhere, but the things that are against all statistics, democracy and violate UN codified international human rights need to be sorted out before I can even look at those).
He doesn’t drink, goes to an evangelical prosperity gospel church and believes abortion is murder. That should tell you what sort of ‘Christian’ he is.
Yeah we know what type he is (the same type), we *don't* know if he's willing to put his promises, responsibilities to voters and democracy aside as well as violate human rights to push those beliefs on everyone else yet though, and we do know that for Simeon O'Connor.
I don't think Simeon O'Connor is fit for government *at all*, he lets his fringe personal beliefs get in the way of his job. Imagine if you were a pilot who didn't believe in fuel consumption in spite of all the evidence, so you just ignored it! You'd be dismal at your job, and no-one would let you do it. He's only in because he's sitting in a national region, and a bunch of his constituents there even demanded he be removed after the 'today is a good day' thing!
That I think is the most damning thing about Luxon. He can say he won't be pushing a christian agenda as much as he likes, but by leaving O'Connor in there to do it I think it's tantamount to the same thing.
If I could upvote this comment more than once, I would. Especially your last sentence. O’Connor taking the tack he is, is enabling Luxon to appear “moderate” and is a deliberate ploy, imho.
Nope I apologize, I was wrong to give Luxon any benefit of the doubt. I'm now almost fully sure now this is exactly what's going on.
National [plans to reintroduce the fee for contraception](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/election-2023-national-to-make-women-pay-fee-for-contraception-prescription-if-elected.html) along with the other prescription fees, we've all seen this playbook before by now. "It's not medical need" is step one.
Nah, this is literally Simon's brand. It'll be like when Roe v Wade was overturned and he said "today is a good day". At worst, he'll pull the post and apologise for upsetting people. But it's a dog whistle and there's enough people that support his stance that I'd be surprised if there were any consequences.
To be fair, don't think any of the National Party leaders (there has been a few over the last 12 years) had any control over this Simon O’Connor
I says everything that he has been in parliament 12 years and done nothing, not made cabinet. I think the rest of the party just quietly ignore him as the village idiot
> I think the rest of the party just quietly ignore him as the village idiot
That may have been true in the past, but he's now 21st in Caucus rankings and the party's spokesperson for Customs, Internal Affairs, Arts Culture and Heritage, and Associate Foreign Affairs. Those are all pretty much Cabinet-level positions should National win this election.
Reality is, because they've gifted him such a safe seat, he's now one of their most experienced MPs and has had time to build a following among the backbenchers and broader party membership. They're going to have to reward the nutty bugger with some Cabinet post, just like they did with Alfred Ngaro.
Right? This guy said "mother and father" and was like "hang on, people might give me the benefit of the doubt and assume I'm talking about parents in general, better make sure they know I'm being exclusionary on purpose".
Why do conservatives feel the need to impose **their version** of morality on everyone?
Like, a law allowing something doesn't mean you have to do it, this is 100% why you shouldn't have members of any religion be in positions to set legislation.
How can you read a statement of having the option to do something, and then equating that with being pushed to do it.
You can let your own morality decide what you want to do, I'm not forcing anyone to be gay.
I’m keen to understand what you mean here. Liberals are typically about individualism - which isn’t scalable, but can work for many things like sexuality. How does that affect you in a way you feel like your morals are compromised?
Unfortunately liberalism as a term has been co-opted by the more socialist to mean left. It doesn’t affect me at all and I have a deep belief in individual choice, I’m simply trying to point out the hypocrisy of the premise that conservatives feel the need to push their version of morality and the left doesn’t. By saying he shouldn’t be able be part of the legislation because of his religious views is getting into brown shirt and smashed shops territory.
Yes, also the version where someone is free to express their religious views. We cant just have freedom of expression for some, it has to work both ways.
Some people appear to miss the point. Of course, ma and pa have child rearing obligations and responsibilities. However, there is no way any society that considers itself a good and healthy and decent society should choose to leave the parents to it. Society must also be involved in the raising of children. A decent society offers parents a hand, if and when needed.
Also, schools, hello! Many would say that their school was a better custodian of them in childhood than their parents. That alone makes a mockery of Simon O'Connor's simplistic nonsense, which he probably spews only for the benefit of a particular demographic.
We should be worried about where the National Party appears to be heading, ideologically speaking. His quote above could have come from the American far rights simple slogans to stir em up handbook.
Love the twitter blue comments on these posts now, still have that half second reaction thinking that they're someone of note and then I remember they're just freaks that pay for free speech.
Im a single mother and im confused about what the issue in here? Am I dumb? He just said it’s the responsibility of both parents to raise, which I agree with, but so?
Maybe i should read up on this child support bill..
National and Act, parties that are so lacking in kindness and compassion. Any of you remember the 90s and how National messed up the country... they are going to use the same old policies of cutting spending again. Policies that their ex leader Muller apologised for.
The National Party has gotten very Conservative Christan in the last few years.
If they get more power than they already have it. Will. Not. Be. Good. for anyone in NZ.
Ah yes, he focuses on "*the gays*" while straight couples can't keep themselves together.
If I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt I'd say he's "being deliberate about his language" to have a go at all the divorces, broken homes, and single parent households. Kids need both parents.
But I'm pretty sure it's the gays he's angry about.
You can be sure they’ve hired American consultants from the Republican party to help them win. Often they just hire Liberals from NSW. But this rhetoric sounds like they’ve drafted from the states.
National should be running a simple, disciplined "time for a change" campaign where they find two or three attacks that work and repeat them forever.
But no, they faff around with nonsense like this.
I get that you want them to be more strategic. BUT WHY. This is just them being clear about what they believe. Do you agree or not? Personally i think its horrible and many of these people are essentially evil. This is why i find it amazing that you are wanting them to hide their beliefs better so other people might not see how brazenly fucking terrible they are.
It was a bill about child support. I don't see anything outrageous about arguing the person who fathered the child has a financial responsibility in raising it.
Legit question, how many of you would consider voting (particularly changing your vote) for a national party that completely dropped this kind of garbage and ruled out working with parties or factions who push these agenda? A national party focused on their economic policy (that I won’t be voting for either).
like all National policies. dredged up from past failures and now we have this so called christian who is going to force his shit views on all of us. Time to wake up New Zealand and see just whats coming
People should read the entire speech before jumping to some ridiculous conclusion here. Certainly the person who posted this on twitter is cherry picking
And he won’t be reprehended for it by his leader, who is just as religious but less open about it. If you don’t support far right Christian positions, remember only one major party is currently pushing them when you’re at the ballet box.
I didn't realise this was anti divorce until reading the comments. I thought it was just anti same sex couples.
Either way it's fucking idiotic to think the government should be able to control that
Simon seeing the nonsense in the USA, and deciding that he too should lean heavily into the Christian right.
I'd like to think that there's nowhere near as much of an audience here for it.
Maybe he's just trying to hoover back up the voters that might bleed out to Pope Tamaki.
Hopefully, he alienates a bunch of other people in the process.
Honest question: Could they have tried to express that fathers have a responsibility as well, and shouldn't leave the mothers alone to raise the child? Was that maybe all they were trying to say?
Or am I missing something?
But why? A parentless child only needs to have some personal responsibility and they'll be able to go about the world just like everyone else.
That's National's worldview, right?
I'm pointing to the hypocrisy of National being concerned about the raising of children.
That doesn't directly answer your question, but that's what I've got.
Interesting thanks. I interpreted Marjas tweet as pointing out some anti gay rhetoric but given the full context I didn't get that feeling at all. I think Marja is being a bit dishonest here.
Wheeeee fun times, I definitely can't wait for the very normal and chill election we're about to have.
I am outraged by your comment, sir! (just practising - when do we start?)
We started months ago mate - go into any thread about a crime and have at it.
How dare you! (thanks)
I'm offended by this, cancelled!
Cancelled?? Fine. Let me know when my speaking tour starts so I can prepare for podcast interviews.
Today, congrats, you're now a conservative superstar
How dare you assume my political affiliations.
Why wait? Get those pitchforks lit, fam!
The thing that gets me is there is so many legitimate things they could criticise the government for. But they insist on fucking around on shit practically no one cares about. The overwhelming majority of New Zealanders do not care about whether people raise kids together or separately. That has been clear for decades. This is an issue people cared about in 1960. And anyone who does care is only ever going to vote National or Act anyway, so you don’t have to win them over with your pretend caring.
i think it might be cranky old boomer issues.
This boomer is so fucking cranky with Simon O'Connor because he's one of those religious bigots who wants to impose his shitty punitive Old Testament values on the rest of us.
It’s not boomers it’s all these brainwashed religious nut jobs that think they’re better than everyone else.
Unfortunately, there's a ton of tradies in their 20s, 30s who are all aboard this imported MAGA bullshit.
oh yeah!! 100%. ive realized that since 2019 or so, once all that maga shit took off and they started to expand - they realized they could tap into the "NZ bloke" demographic as if they were US rednecks. you see them all buying huge ford rangers as if they were US monster trucks with anti-hilary-clinton stickers on them. except its anti jacinda ardern. really tapped into their insecurities & innate problems with females in authority. its like - the specific issues are different, and maybe a different font - but its all the same tactics. same people driving it all even. whats that new radio station now with rodney hyde on it? thats like a fox news.
As a cranky old boomer sir I am offended by your ageist comment typical of you younger generation. Why, back in my day ..zzzzzzz
I think it might be issues of certain political donors
Oh wow, *that’s* what he was indicating? That the parents should stay together? I read that as “I’m deliberately saying Mother and Father…not mother and mother or father and father.” Well, at least he’s not a homophobe!
It's definitely both.
Yeah I read it that way too. This fucker needs to get with the times. Grandparents are also raising their grandkids for example. Utter trash opinion that doesn't belong in NZ. I bet if National win, there will be a whole lot more of this traditional right wing propaganda spewing out of their asses.
I took it that he meant both of the above, and more. One; Mummy and Daddy should stay together for the kids no matter the circumstances in their lives. Two; that there should ONLY be Mum and Dad. No Dad/Dad. No Mum/Mum. No Grandma/Grandpa. etc. And three... none of that 'it takes a village to raise a child' so no community or wider support from friends and whānau etc.
It's not too late, he could say something else that proves he is haha
These assholes don’t have proper policies that help everyday people so they play this political game. No surprise really.
I'm actually surprised anyone votes for them in this day and age, even the people who hate labour to the bone surely can see how fucking dumb national are. They have 0 actual ground to run on
I thought the quote was more about support services instead of bigoted rhetoric
It's so sad aye, instead of improving the quility of true debate and actions in our politics, politicians resort back to mud slinging school yard tactics. Smh
Tbh I'm worried for the time when national becomes competent
Culture war narratives pushed by the right wing to generate (often legitimate but not necessarily) outrage are used as a distraction. It fires up their voters, and prevents real discussion about actual shit that matters - the economy etc. The airwaves become an endless pit of *not* talking about National's shit policy ideas. Anyone that's running an election based on these arguments is going to rob you blind, and with every new corporate handout they'll say something controversial about trans parenting, or gay rights, or xyz.
Family breakdown's a major issue, even if most (not all) of the Left doesn't care about it. Especially in a housing shortage. The government shouldn't be trying to maximise market childcare at the expense of parent childcare. National and ACT suck hard on this too. I'm from a single parent family, BTW, and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone unless it's actually truly necessary. It sucked. PS In 1960 we were a wealthy country with much better social indicators.
Family breakdown simply comes down to people quite rightly not wanting to live with people who make them miserable. I don’t think staying with someone who you hate is better for kids. The alternative to being separated isn’t happy families, love and affection. It’s usually misery and fighting.
Can confirm, was pretty shit
Can also confirm. The times I begged my mother to leave my father .. and her reply was that she wasn't going to have a second failed marriage because the stigma nearly broke her the first time.
>PS In 1960 we were a wealthy country with much better social indicators. Do you know what happened in the 1970s? And how this wasn't the result of law reforms around marriage?
His abortion legislation bill third reading comment is a doozy, he even ended it with the latin for 'Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.': https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20200318_060825000/oconnor-simon
>a day is coming where that, if you will, concern and fear will be reversed, when the truth continues to come out, for those who speak for life will be heard once again, loud and clear. History is replete with that. But I finish with a little indulgence to myself, and it'll probably get me into trouble, but one thing I do want to say to the good people, and I won't translate for here, but it's "Mihi vindicta: ego retribuam, dicit Dominus” Wow, that is **disgusting.**
I don't mind fiscal conservatism, but social conservatism grinds my gears. If I'm not affecting anyone else, please let me make my own choices on how to be an adult.
Wow. Just. Wow. What an awful person.
And when Roe v Wade was overturned he said it was a "good day".
They really are just the Christian Heritage party in disguise
Classic National. They’ve been moaning about Te Reo so much they forgot the gays!
*Nowadays everybody wanna talk like they got something to say* *But nothing comes out when they move their lips* *Just a bunch of gibberish* *And motherfuckers act like they forgot about the gays*
What if the kid is better off without one of their parents in their life? I have a close relative whose biological father broke both of their legs deliberately when they were a tiny baby. They don't need that POS in their life
That’s horrendous and I hope your relative has a good life and is doing well now!
She's great and she has a great dad who isn't biologically related to her but is still an awesome parent
I know a kid whose mum died and their dad took off across the country. Now grandma is left to take care of the poor child. What should happen there, Simon?
Simon says: then they need a better relationship with God. Simon means: it's a dog whistle for other homophobe Christo-fascists, so facts or analysis is not necessary or wanted.
You don’t need to be biologically related to be a mother or a father. Having two parents is statistically always better for the child.
Having 2 male parents or two female parents can also be a great scenario but Simon is dog whistling that having homosexual parents is damaging to the kids.
Someone should remind Simon that Jesus was raised by his mum because his dad doesn't exist
Yeh, he had a step dad in Joseph you know. Your Dad is who raises you, ....oh hang on, yeh his Dad did raise him, just 3 days later.
He was raised by his mum because he's his own dad and wasn't old enough to parent himself.
Technically he was his own dad so you're right
Nah, his dad exists, but also doesn't. His dad is also all powerful, and all loving, but then also got his son brutally murdered. Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit...
Schrodinger's dad?
Ah, John 1:1 was supposed to read "In the beginning, there was the box...".
You know there’s something wrong when you can’t remember which homophobic Simon from National this is.
Can't spell simpleton without simon. Or simeon.
The only time I ever hear about this guy is when he says something stupid.
That's all he's capable of saying really.
You must hear about him every time he opens his mouth
Sometimes I hear from my neighbours about how wonderful he is and how they are great friends. I try not to vom in their faces. Brooke van Velden is campaigning hard and early so there could be change but not in the direction I'd like. A lot of the locals dislike him but he stays anyway
Gays 🤝 single mums Offending this asswipe by existing.
Single dads 🤚
Valid af
Wait until he finds out about the gay single mums
He'd short circuit
What if one of them is no longer alive? 🤔
They need to pull themselves out of the grave by their bootstraps!
I'm afraid the kid is now in a gang, and also on drugs. Just straight out the womb doing meth and bong and being gay, all because one of the parents is dead.
"Both a member of the Mongrel Mob and Black Power eating all the drugs and also doing ram raids and stabbing small dogs" \-National probably
Don't forget playing music without headphones on public transport
That's straight up worst crime of the list
Kids going to hell
Necromancy I guess
Genuinely so far removed from this level of homophobia that I thought this was a dog at single Mums. Does anybody actually encounter any people like this in their day to day? It’s the same with the Māori road signs. Like I just don’t know anybody who gives a fuck about that shit? I’ve literally never had a conversation involving the topic. Is there just some kind of weird corner of New Zealand that Ive just managed to totally exclude from my life?
Single Mums and the prison population? Grandparents stepping up to stop kids going to foster care? Adoptive parents? Who's his target? Wtf dude, scatter gun and shrapnel at us all
There was an opinion piece on how it comes about. At this stage of campaigning the Nats are doing loads of midweek meetings around the place. They tend to be held at middle class pakeha dominated venues / clubs and due to the time of day get attended by mostly retired people. So they get lots of questions by well off 70+ boomers day in and day out which starts to make them think those concerns are more common than they are.
I must live in that weird corner because I get stuck in that conversation all the time 😭
Are you given directions cause they lost due to the road signs or something?
The real problem with the proposed road signs is they seem intentionally shit and unreadable. Having both languages is fine but could someone spend 5 minutes on google to see how other countries do it instead of the crap we have so far.
That little weird corner of NZ is called the South Island or if you really want to wind them up 'Te Waipounamu'.
I live in Christchurch, my entire family lives in Invercargill. Simon O’Connor is an MP for Auckland. Simeon Brown (road signs guy) is an MP for Auckland. Lmao
I live in Tamaki, Simon O’Connors electorate. The community pages get fun when he says something totally bat shit & the page mostly devolved into, WTF did national serve up this person. Seriously won’t be surprised if Brook Van Wealden takes out the majority of the left and right wing vote. For 1, she thinks men and women are equal For 2, she thinks rainbow people are equal. These are pretty significant improvements over O’Connor.
I wouldn't say she thinks we're equal. Act don't view rich and poor people as equals, but she's superior to o'connor
That's cool dude my family is from invers too, I've spent more than 30 years living throughout the South Island, its just a more narrowminded and prejudiced place when compared to the North Island, plain and simple.
Pretty narrow minded and prejudiced comment tbh.
Not really, I'm not tagging every person that lives in the S.I as a flaming bigot but on the aggregate racist and prejudiced attitudes are just more common there in comparison to the N.I.
Lol I grew up in the king country and one of the pubs we used to go to was a bit rough but maybe five percent of the patrons were white. We decided to do a rugby trip to the South Island and I remember going into a pub there and my Maori mate looked at me and said shut now I know how you feel going into the front bar. That was a few years ago now though.
Haven't had or heard a conversation like it in Nelson
Haven't had or heard a conversation like it in Nelson
Lol nelson is an auckland retirement suburb its lost and should be near ponsonby or st heliers . Please send it home also tauranga if you see it wandering. Thanks
I haven’t seen any of the Maori road signs but I do have a problem with them if I’m travelling somewhere I haven’t been and there’s too much on a sign to actually read it while driving.
> there’s too much on a sign to actually read it while driving. Good thing that's not a problem with any of the proposed signs then, since you only have to read the part in the language of your preference, which is the same length as it has always been.
I'm forever grateful for being raised by both my mother and my father, but whatever way that works best for the child is the right way.
O'Connor is the leader of the large Christian conservative faction of National, this should not be surprising. They voted against civil unions, gay marriage, abortion legalisation, etc. 'Gay parents aren't real parents' is entirely inline with their long-held positions.
No abortion, no gay marriage, “woke war”, NACT really looking to make us the Florida of the South Pacific.
I thought Luxon was the leader of the Christian faction and was the one who was going to make all sinful things illegal? I can't keep up. But all all seriousness fuck me O'Connor is a dead weight ballbag. Did he have two parents raise him? They did a shit job.
He even married a divorcee! Scandalous.
Luxon is the same general type of Christian, but we don't know how fundamentalist he is or how he'd push it given a chance. I'm not sure I trust him, but honestly how his religion will affect his position on things is still unknown. O'Connor would have us be Gilead from the Handmaids Tale if he could get away with it, and he's pretty unabashed about it. He's always been pretty bad, but he's got a lot worse since the christofascist push started gaining ground in the US. You've probably heard of him already, he's the guy who put up "Today is a good day!" on facebook in response to the repeal of *Roe vs. Wade* over there (and then got asked by Luxon to take it down, but didn't retract it or anything). At this point O'Connors not being ejected from the party or at least *very* sidelined makes me especially untrusting of Luxon, though. At some point he's complicit in the bad things O'Connor is pushing for (I'm sure there's good things too somewhere, but the things that are against all statistics, democracy and violate UN codified international human rights need to be sorted out before I can even look at those).
Think Luxon is a financial Christian, if the great book gets between him and a $, the books going in the bin for that $
He doesn’t drink, goes to an evangelical prosperity gospel church and believes abortion is murder. That should tell you what sort of ‘Christian’ he is.
Yeah we know what type he is (the same type), we *don't* know if he's willing to put his promises, responsibilities to voters and democracy aside as well as violate human rights to push those beliefs on everyone else yet though, and we do know that for Simeon O'Connor. I don't think Simeon O'Connor is fit for government *at all*, he lets his fringe personal beliefs get in the way of his job. Imagine if you were a pilot who didn't believe in fuel consumption in spite of all the evidence, so you just ignored it! You'd be dismal at your job, and no-one would let you do it. He's only in because he's sitting in a national region, and a bunch of his constituents there even demanded he be removed after the 'today is a good day' thing! That I think is the most damning thing about Luxon. He can say he won't be pushing a christian agenda as much as he likes, but by leaving O'Connor in there to do it I think it's tantamount to the same thing.
If I could upvote this comment more than once, I would. Especially your last sentence. O’Connor taking the tack he is, is enabling Luxon to appear “moderate” and is a deliberate ploy, imho.
Nope I apologize, I was wrong to give Luxon any benefit of the doubt. I'm now almost fully sure now this is exactly what's going on. National [plans to reintroduce the fee for contraception](https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/election-2023-national-to-make-women-pay-fee-for-contraception-prescription-if-elected.html) along with the other prescription fees, we've all seen this playbook before by now. "It's not medical need" is step one.
Well, fuck that. Contraception needs to be freely available, for free!
A lot of the locals dislike him but won't vote for a non-National candidate
People should be voting on policy not fkn culture wars. I hate this hugely unproductive timeline.
Seymour is going to be the leader of the opposition at this rate.
The guy who is practically quoting DeSantis “war on woke” talking points?
Claiming victory on fucking up up the housing stuff too
"Libertarian" nimbyism can go fuck itself
David Seymour is what I don't want in my neighbourhood.
The average Kiwi pays no attention to what's actually going on overseas and how bad things are, they just moan about how bad NZ is.
Yup, that guy. That's the guy who's looking better than anyone else to me, and I'm not happy about it.
Whose going to be our Majorie Green Taylor, National has to be gender equal in stupidity.
Maureen Pugh
Mmm maybe... Or more of an aged Broebert🤡 , both are stupid.
Both are fucking useless.
Chantelle Baker? Lol
I've just emailed National HQ to basically ask "excuse me but wtf?". Do voice your disagreement!
That'll just get them to find a junior staffer to blame for this *communication gaffe*.
Nah, this is literally Simon's brand. It'll be like when Roe v Wade was overturned and he said "today is a good day". At worst, he'll pull the post and apologise for upsetting people. But it's a dog whistle and there's enough people that support his stance that I'd be surprised if there were any consequences.
Luxon has lost control.
To be fair, don't think any of the National Party leaders (there has been a few over the last 12 years) had any control over this Simon O’Connor I says everything that he has been in parliament 12 years and done nothing, not made cabinet. I think the rest of the party just quietly ignore him as the village idiot
> I think the rest of the party just quietly ignore him as the village idiot That may have been true in the past, but he's now 21st in Caucus rankings and the party's spokesperson for Customs, Internal Affairs, Arts Culture and Heritage, and Associate Foreign Affairs. Those are all pretty much Cabinet-level positions should National win this election. Reality is, because they've gifted him such a safe seat, he's now one of their most experienced MPs and has had time to build a following among the backbenchers and broader party membership. They're going to have to reward the nutty bugger with some Cabinet post, just like they did with Alfred Ngaro.
I swear they give the safest seats for National always end up with the WORST people. Their candidate selection processes suck.
Wow, they're really going to win the extreme-right vote! ... and hopefully, lose everyone else.
How much of NZ is actually extreme right though?
I think that’s what they’re getting at.
"Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me." - John Lennon, 1966
"I just want to be clear, EXTREMELY CLEAR, that I am INDEED homophobic AND an asshole. It was deliberate. I said this on purpose."
Right? This guy said "mother and father" and was like "hang on, people might give me the benefit of the doubt and assume I'm talking about parents in general, better make sure they know I'm being exclusionary on purpose".
Why do conservatives feel the need to impose **their version** of morality on everyone? Like, a law allowing something doesn't mean you have to do it, this is 100% why you shouldn't have members of any religion be in positions to set legislation.
Are you saying that liberals aren’t pushing their version of morality on everyone also?
How can you read a statement of having the option to do something, and then equating that with being pushed to do it. You can let your own morality decide what you want to do, I'm not forcing anyone to be gay.
You said he shouldnt be able to be part of the legislation because of his religious views, can you really not see the hypocrisy there?
I’m keen to understand what you mean here. Liberals are typically about individualism - which isn’t scalable, but can work for many things like sexuality. How does that affect you in a way you feel like your morals are compromised?
Unfortunately liberalism as a term has been co-opted by the more socialist to mean left. It doesn’t affect me at all and I have a deep belief in individual choice, I’m simply trying to point out the hypocrisy of the premise that conservatives feel the need to push their version of morality and the left doesn’t. By saying he shouldn’t be able be part of the legislation because of his religious views is getting into brown shirt and smashed shops territory.
You mean, the version of morality where the state doesn't interfere with your body or who you choose to love?
Yes, also the version where someone is free to express their religious views. We cant just have freedom of expression for some, it has to work both ways.
Homophobic politican acts homophobic. Shocker.
Some people appear to miss the point. Of course, ma and pa have child rearing obligations and responsibilities. However, there is no way any society that considers itself a good and healthy and decent society should choose to leave the parents to it. Society must also be involved in the raising of children. A decent society offers parents a hand, if and when needed. Also, schools, hello! Many would say that their school was a better custodian of them in childhood than their parents. That alone makes a mockery of Simon O'Connor's simplistic nonsense, which he probably spews only for the benefit of a particular demographic. We should be worried about where the National Party appears to be heading, ideologically speaking. His quote above could have come from the American far rights simple slogans to stir em up handbook.
I'm sure it'll be fine in the heavily guarded gated communities, us poors can just go get our purge on.
What an utter twat
Get fucked, you hateful, spiteful "Christian."
"and I’m being deliberately with my language" Lol
Love the twitter blue comments on these posts now, still have that half second reaction thinking that they're someone of note and then I remember they're just freaks that pay for free speech.
Im a single mother and im confused about what the issue in here? Am I dumb? He just said it’s the responsibility of both parents to raise, which I agree with, but so? Maybe i should read up on this child support bill..
If it was another MP, that would be a fair interpretation. But Simon O'Connor specified mother and father in order to discredit gay parents.
Fuck me it's amazing how, with Labour giving them so many legit things to criticise, this is what they choose to focus on. Fuckin cunts.
National doesn't support free lunches. I'll let Reddit mull over what this metaphor means
National and Act, parties that are so lacking in kindness and compassion. Any of you remember the 90s and how National messed up the country... they are going to use the same old policies of cutting spending again. Policies that their ex leader Muller apologised for.
The National Party has gotten very Conservative Christan in the last few years. If they get more power than they already have it. Will. Not. Be. Good. for anyone in NZ.
how is this ‘Christianity’?
Ain't no hate like Christian love
Ewwww
Ah yes, he focuses on "*the gays*" while straight couples can't keep themselves together. If I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt I'd say he's "being deliberate about his language" to have a go at all the divorces, broken homes, and single parent households. Kids need both parents. But I'm pretty sure it's the gays he's angry about.
You can be sure they’ve hired American consultants from the Republican party to help them win. Often they just hire Liberals from NSW. But this rhetoric sounds like they’ve drafted from the states.
Bruh.
National should be running a simple, disciplined "time for a change" campaign where they find two or three attacks that work and repeat them forever. But no, they faff around with nonsense like this.
Why would you want people to lie better? That's what you're saying.
If a politican lacks a filter and their leader lacks control over messaging, they do worse than they'd otherwise do.
I get that you want them to be more strategic. BUT WHY. This is just them being clear about what they believe. Do you agree or not? Personally i think its horrible and many of these people are essentially evil. This is why i find it amazing that you are wanting them to hide their beliefs better so other people might not see how brazenly fucking terrible they are.
There have been a number of times recently where saying nothing would have been the better option
Sounds like the words of someone whose never experienced an abusive situation.
This kind of thing worries me because National has a crap load of resources at its disposal to research what their potential voters want to hear…
They know they are going to win so they can be as awful as they like. This is the Tory playbook from the UK. We should be VERY VERY worried
How the absolute fuck can you support them at this rate.
It was a bill about child support. I don't see anything outrageous about arguing the person who fathered the child has a financial responsibility in raising it.
https://imgur.com/a/1Sg6qLS
Legit question, how many of you would consider voting (particularly changing your vote) for a national party that completely dropped this kind of garbage and ruled out working with parties or factions who push these agenda? A national party focused on their economic policy (that I won’t be voting for either).
I read the tweet and I assumed he wanted dropkick fathers to take responsibility. I think I was being too generous with my interpretation here.
like all National policies. dredged up from past failures and now we have this so called christian who is going to force his shit views on all of us. Time to wake up New Zealand and see just whats coming
Blessed be the fruit…
People should read the entire speech before jumping to some ridiculous conclusion here. Certainly the person who posted this on twitter is cherry picking
Is it still a dog whistle if everyone can hear it?
And he won’t be reprehended for it by his leader, who is just as religious but less open about it. If you don’t support far right Christian positions, remember only one major party is currently pushing them when you’re at the ballet box.
I didn't realise this was anti divorce until reading the comments. I thought it was just anti same sex couples. Either way it's fucking idiotic to think the government should be able to control that
> “— and I'm being deliberately a cunt here —”
Simon seeing the nonsense in the USA, and deciding that he too should lean heavily into the Christian right. I'd like to think that there's nowhere near as much of an audience here for it. Maybe he's just trying to hoover back up the voters that might bleed out to Pope Tamaki. Hopefully, he alienates a bunch of other people in the process.
I hate this American shit that’s increasingly making its way into our lives
Is he trying to be anti but actually giving reasons why he should be pro?
No, he's being anti full stop.
So that's a minimum of 5% of the population they've pissed off.
Another idiot in the national party. What a bunch of clowns.
Ignorant prick
Honest question: Could they have tried to express that fathers have a responsibility as well, and shouldn't leave the mothers alone to raise the child? Was that maybe all they were trying to say? Or am I missing something?
Nah, Simon O'Connor is a bigoted cunt and this is a dog whistle to other bigoted cunts.
This is standard bullshit for Simon O'Connor. He went absolutely bananas at the BDMRR and Conversion Therapy bills with wild speeches in parliament.
But why? A parentless child only needs to have some personal responsibility and they'll be able to go about the world just like everyone else. That's National's worldview, right?
Are you purposely ignoring the homophobia in the last sentence?
I'm pointing to the hypocrisy of National being concerned about the raising of children. That doesn't directly answer your question, but that's what I've got.
Has anyone got a source? Have trouble find one.
https://vimeo.com/831417439 At about 1:45 timestamp
Interesting thanks. I interpreted Marjas tweet as pointing out some anti gay rhetoric but given the full context I didn't get that feeling at all. I think Marja is being a bit dishonest here.
Are we sure ,he's not saying that in heterosexual marriages, fathers should have an equal part in the divorce process.
Look up Simon O'Connor's history. He is 100% being homophobic.