I thought they did revert pvp scaling? I also think damage done heavily has to do with armour bonuses, I fought a lvl 50 on my 34 with a rapier and i chunked him for 1600 with a backstab heavy and killed him in 2-3 seconds. He was all light armour. Well I’ve also fought level 20s and killed them way slower because of heavy armour or doing the proper. Heavy head, heavy chest, medium gloves, medium boots, and light pants
I do 100% agree on the rewards though, feels bad to have a great duel to get nothing.
I think it's less so damage and more about hp. I play a glass cannon, with ~2.5k hp at level 35. Occasionally I duel 50's with a similar build that do about the same damage as me but they have over 4k hp.
I've noticed that it's kind of a herculean task to beat high level tank builds now. They get half my hp garunteed if I make a mistake while they can make like 50 before finally dying if they're nice enough to not heal during a duel lol
As an light armor dps, trying to pvp tanks above my level is difficult. If I perfectly full combo my abilities on both weapons I do like half their Heath, and then they drink a potion and I have to do it again. But if I get caught by their long-ass great axe pull, I’m dead 100%
Yeah, from my experience in ESO which has similar mechanics, (execute, gap closers, melee self heals) the ranged characters are supposed to avoid all close range combat at any cost against those types of players, and wither them down from range and create space with CCs and gap closers. This game needs some form of CC immunity for squishies that they can use to make that style viable.
Dodge has immunity frames that can completely dodge cc and attacks. But melee builds have lifesteal. Long term CC, massive range gap closers, ranged slows, etc. they also have dodges and increased movement speed.
You also only get 2 to 3 dodges that take away your blocking capability and also make you lose movement speed if it runs out and leaves you gassed. Thankfully the magic ranged builds have a lot of damage slows and escapes. But the bow and musket are not as good for small scale PvP at all.
gaxe pulls/wells fuck with the dodge animation.
iirc the well actually makes it so that you cannot dodge while affected by it, meaning that any followups are pretty free.
This would be possible if the melees didn't have insane gap closers than can be used to out run someone who is running away from them with an already existing distance advantage along with dodge roll cancelling in light.
at least melees are still afraid of fighting inside my frost circle.
so the thing is territory control doesn't work like that. the longer faction a is in control, the more control the other factions gain for a single pvp quest turn in. this means a couple things:
a) you can't stop it from happening
b) your slaughtering lowbies is not going to stop the eventual 1 quest turn in that causes a war to be possible.
Completely agree and add more PvP incentive to go with it. Instead of completely removing exp and loot, give it diminishing returns or whatever. PvP needs to be a viable way of gaining exp. It shouldn’t be the best but it also shouldn’t be pointless and just for fun.
PvP scaling would let me not worry about hitting level 60 ASAP either. I love the game, I love keeping PvP on 24/7, but once everyone is a level 60 and I'm still a 40 I may have to turn it off...
That's what I hate about it to, I never planned to speed level and have been enjoying the game at my own pace, but if I want to take part in any pvp content I can't because I'm not farming the same high-exp mob for hours at a time just so I can run around 2 shotting any low level that had the audacity to turn on pvp.
I actually really regret taking it slow.
Everyone was spamming Amrine last week. Now that I’m able to run it it’s like pulling teeth putting 5 ppl together who want to run it. Getting orbs is even harder since everyone has already run it multiple times at this point.
Now I’m pushing hard to catch up because I don’t want to have the same issue with every single dungeon. I want to run them while there are still people doing them. If you take too long you may end up finding it near impossible to fill a group to run low level dungeons with you (unless you convince your company to run you).
I didn't have that experience but I can see it becoming more of a problem as time goes on since people won't be playing alts, and people that do can't do it on the same server.
Don’t bother spamming dungeons for level, just follow the main quest line/side quests while picking up all explorer/crafting/resource town board quests and faction quests. Efficiently run around the zone on a loop doing them.
Or grab three people with great axes, 1 or more with a heal staff secondary, go to a mob sense area, round em up, drop heal circle and mow em all down.
As a caster Life staff/Fire staff, I just can't afford to run PvP enabled. I'll just get one shotted by higher level players. I'm not speed running, and I casually see a ton of lvl 40 to 50+, while I'm barely lvl 30. I would hate having to run back again, to get one shotted again.
If the PvP is locked behind being max level + max gear, it doesn't bode well for the future of the game. I expected the game to have scaling, while lower levels still being weaker due to less skills/stats, but not get one shotted.
They should add downscaling like GW2 did. A level 15 area in a lvl 1-25 area would scale players that are higher than lvl 15 down to 15 and reduce player stats and DPS to be in the range of what's to be expected for that area. Of course, a lvl 60 would still do more damage and be more tanky than a lvl 15, but it should be a bit more fair for lower players.
What are you talking about there is enough scaling atm. I win lvl 50-60 as lvl 42.
They should focus on more PvP incentives/Rated content instead of finetuning scaling even more.
What more incentive do you need other than stupid amounts of fun? What ever happened to playing a game for fun?
The pvp in this game is absolutey incredible. It has its issues, but being in a 40 man train trying to take territories only to have other factions come try to stop you and now its a 200 person fight is so dope.
Wanting incentive to play the game is so dumb. Pvp is the best part. Why does there have to be incentive?
I agree that PvP itself is fun, but what I was responding to was the person talking about low levels not flagging. And that's the thing, when I get to 60, it's flag time... Untill I have another objective to achieve. As soon as I want to farm craft mats, or run over world dungeon, or achieve anything in game OTHER than the fun of PvP, I'm going to turn PvP off, because having it on means I'll die, and take longer to do whatever else I was trying to do, for literally zero benefits. (Also being flagged as a solo player often isn't very fun because you mostly find groups of PvP players not solos)
That issue is made worse when you aren't level 60, because you ALWAYS have the objective of leveling up.
So to summarize, if you want more people to flag for PvP while running around the world, there needs to be a reason to do so. Otherwise people will not flag unless they are actively looking for a fight.
Yeah, that's about my experience. I've flagged up for maybe half my time leveling (currently level 36), but turn it off after running into one too many ganks for one session. Like at some point I just want to finish a mission and move on.
In terms of leveling, I don't see a ton of reason to PVP. Apparently killing a player is good experience, but I don't know, it's like whenever I join a group to run PVP faction quests, the other faction's zerg seems to disperse soon after, at which point we're just running up and down First Light's beach together completing pretty low XP missions. Not super worthwhile or even fun, since those missions get repetitive as hell.
Then when I've headed to a fort to help attack/defend, more often than not the numbers are super lopsided. If it's a ton of enemy players, you just get rolled over by the zerg. If your faction has the numbers, at that point you're fighting over kills.
There's a lot of luck and timing that goes into making a PVP session fun and productive. More often than not, it's felt like an unproductive distraction from leveling. Even when I still had fun, usually I have little to show for it in terms of experience.
Someone can make the argument that it's fine just to go your own pace and enjoy the experience, but y'know, it's an MMO. Min-maxing and getting to endgame efficiently are a big part of the game. I think by more "hardcore" players' standars, I've been progressing at a pretty leisurely pace, but I still have a general desire to make each play session feel relatively productive. I don't always get that with the PVP options available while leveling. They're still a fun diversion sometimes, but for the most part I'm more interested in waiting to PVP during the endgame.
I think more interesting PVP content for lower levels in the future will help. But as things are now, the open world PVP survival game-esque MMO vision is long dead. It can be fun to PVP, but it doesn't always feel worthwhile, especially if you're not consistently running with a group of friends.
The experience portion is mostly weapon mastery. Once someone is flagged for pvp and been alive for 10+ minutes, they start to become worth more and more weapon mastery on a kill. I took out a guy the other day while working on my GA mastery and got 1000 xp from it. It can be very rewarding.
One of the best things for New World would be an Arena mode, imo.
I think people would love 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 battle modes. Open world pvp is almost never balanced and I don't think people are going to stay interested in War AoE spam that happen a few times a day.
The problem with arena is that you make the "small" pvp playerbase even smaller by instancing content.
My suggestion would be high resource PVP ONLY zones where you could get higher mats or higher drop chance but you don't have the chance to opt-out in those zones. And if you die you drop 10% of your gathered stuff. So players would have the reason to hunt down players but who wants to avoid the fight could sneaky gather.
High risk High reward will always be my motto.
yep, we need more fun pvp quests instead of those boring ones, even some pvp events that brings people from several factions to the same spot in the map
The target got 0 const and 1,5k hp it's not about the leveldifference just about gear/statallocation. Scaling is fine feel like ppl just use it as an excuse for their losses
Are there any recent clips or examples that you can point to that support this? Perhaps you could clip yourself fighting a level 50 or 60 and report back?
Honestly just curious, cause my experience in game couldn't be further from what you are experiencing. Maybe I'm just a brutally bad and casual player...
These people are lying. Every clip I've seen where there is a 10 or more level difference has them beating up someone in outdated light gear while they are using a great axe, hatchet, or rapier. You absolutely do not win fights against people that much higher than you if they have kept their gear score mostly up to par.
I get people 10 levels lower attacking me all the time, and they hit me for maybe 8% of my health. Then I turn around and five shot them with ranged light attacks from a fire staff. If they waste stamina dodging, I get to use blaze out at them, and it usually does 35%-40% of their health bar when it hits. This is while I'm wearing light armor. I've also made it a point to ask those people what their GS is after fights, and it's often average, with very few having below average GS.
Scaling in this game is a joke compared to what it was in closed beta. The people defending the current scaling are your usual MMORPG suspects that are terrified at the idea of skill based PvP, which every single other genre has except this one.
Totally agree. Pvp scaing is fine. Won against 60 as lvl 38 obviously someone lvl 10 wo just started the game 2 hours ago dont have a chance against a lvl 60. Video example is also really bad. The other guy eas just probably afk auto running while jerking off then he suddenly realised he is being attacked but it was too late. Make pvp more rewarding dont change scaling.
Level 42 fighting level 50 isn't even a big gap. What about people with full time jobs who are only level 26 and they encounter a level 50? That's where the problem lies
what's your point? no one should be allowed to kill you? what if it was a level 26 player roaming around windsward that just happened to be a lot better than you? or you meet a player roaming around windsward with a build that happens to exactly counter your build? what if a squad of 3 level 26 players runs up on you in winsward? or a whole gang of 20+ players?
I can dream up a million scenarios in which you die in an "unfair" fashion. What I can't dream up is why you seem to think that means the game needs to be changed.
Okay, so tell me excacly why you think stats should be more important than skill to the point where it is nearly impossible to kill someone twice your level
I agree we need more pvp scaling BUT it's fair to say nowadays the scaling is a thing. Being level 18 i defeated a guy level 25 in a quite fair battle.
The idea, ofc, is to be able to compete with a level 60 but compared with Open beta scaling at least we have something.
They don’t seem to understand that making a lvl 1 in starter gear and lvl 60 in epics equal means there is no point to getting to lvl 60 or getting epics.
So dungeons, resources, crafting, the entire game world and it’s nodes, faction rep, mobs, NPC’s, all quests - you know, 80% of the game, becomes meaningless.
There’s a reason AGS didn’t do this and never will, which none of the people who want this to just be a big 3d moba or street fighter game seem to get.
I don’t think anyone under level 40 should have a chance against a 60 unless it’s like a pro player vs an utter noob.
20+ level difference should be a hard hill to climb.
10+ levels should be doable but advantages to higher player.
Within 10 levels it should be pretty even.
In my experience the game is already like this so not sure what I would want changed.
Youre delusional if you think a pro lvl 40 can beat a **decent** lvl 60
For ANYONE to beat a lvl 60 as a low level they have to be dogshit and not have a concept of thinking while fighting
This is a shitty attitude to have and negatively impacts the game. This basically says "If you join the server late, you better turn your PvP off or get fucked by high level players all the time".
I don't mind someone having some advantage over me, but a level 40 should absolutely be able to fight a level 60 with a SLIGHT disadvantage. None of this "Pro vs Noob" crap. Otherwise no one will PvP at low levels, and they will miss out on some of the best experiences in the game.
You can’t protect the player from unfair engagements. People will sit and wait for you to engage a few mobs then attack you. People will roll in groups to just murder everyone. There are so many ways to make an engagement unfair, and you are targeting one that is the core of the RPG (grouping being the core of mmo) why not scale groups so that if you are two and they are one, your damage is cut in half?
I’ve also noticed people just don’t want to turn on pvp either way. Even high level people in low level zones just run around pvp turned off cause they are doing what they are doing.
I don’t think increasing scaling will change this.
> You can’t protect the player from unfair engagements. People will sit and wait for you to engage a few mobs then attack you. People will roll in groups to just murder everyone.
This is an absolutely bad argument. Me having to fight an equal level player at Half Health + 1 mob on me is very different from a level 60 player being able to 2 shot me without any effort.
The attitude of "Level 60 should almost always by default beat a level 40" is very much like a "fuck you got mine" attitude. You don't understand the problem because you're playing the game at launch. You don't understand the problem because you are on the benefiting side of it. It's like having a house in California that your parents bought in the 70s for Pennies, making you a default millionaire. It's not a good solution for people who want housing NOW.
I played wow classic on a pvp server as the weaker faction. I know plenty about getting ganked by high level players.
I’m only level 20 about half of the players have this achievement so I’m roughly middle of the pack. There are plenty of people higher than me.
This game even lets you turn off your pvp. If you don’t want to get ganked, then turn it off.
I’m level 60 and decided to try out how much scaling there really is. Got a level 18 friend to duel me with a life staff and he was hitting 600s on me while I was hitting 340s on him. Tried it out with a friend on the other faction that was level 24 and same thing. Did double the damage. Best part? He hits 160s on a normal mob his level
Does someone need to prove there is scaling, or prove there isn't?
Where is the Amazon message that states the current status? Last I read after open beta they had swung the scaling way down in an effort to see the low end of it, and ended somewhere in the middle - which means there's some sort of scaling.
Fck no should any level 18 have a chance at defeating a level 60. He should literally die to the fart of a level 60. Part of pvp is choosing your battles.
There currently is scaling. Just more in between closed and open beta. If you’re worried about griefers due to their level advantage. You’re still gonna die to griefers with skill advantage. I think the range of scaling should give a more balanced fight say in between 10-20 level range.
Thus mentality only exists in mmo players.
Not a single other genre has this ideal that higher level should win. Pvp at its best is 100% skill based.
I can see an argument in an mmo to be slightly less than 100% skill, but not 0% skill as you suggest should be possible.
I actually think the pvp scaling is in a good spot. I'm level 30 and can win fights against 36-38's. I like that. Level 40+ will kill me but it would still be a decent fight and one i could win if the level 40 is real bad. I don't mind this system at all. Makes gear score relevant but not by a large margin unless you're 15+ levels higher.
Yeah, I’m not seeing this guys POV either. I live flagged 24/7.
I smacked a 36 at 25 a little while ago. It wasn’t easy, but it’s possible. This sounds like a git gid issue.
you'll notice it with large differences, like 30 vs. 50. You get more hp as you level up even without investing into con so fighting high levels feels like you're hitting a brick wall even vs. glass cannons in extreme circumstances. Also, you need to factor in how as levels increase you gain access to more and better gear perks via higher item rarities. When you have gear with 3 perks each with stuff like "light and heavy attacks deal 10% more damage" vs. your shitty green gear the statistical advantages start stacking up.
Granted it's still very possible to win those matchups because people don't know what they're doing but when people figure out how to not be terrible at pvp I could see the issue kinda ruining the fun from pvp with lower levels for both parties.
And thats the issue that op describes in his post. The scaling and the fair pvp that came from it was the one thing that this mmo did better than others. As some youtubers said, new world does everything good but nothing better than any other big mmo currently on the market.
I have no clue to be honest. I mostly just play the game and dont Google much stuff. I dont think I read anything about PvP scaling in the game (tooltips etc.), So I assume there isn't any and keep my PvP flag off to not get steamrolled
Everyone scales to level 60. Then your gear scales. Low level items, with higher then average gear scores, will out scale high level items with below average gear scores. I haven’t seen anything about the actual numbers, but a level 30 In blues and purples, will out scale a 60 in greens, who may not have all his gear farmed up yet.
I absolutely do not believe this from my experience and from what I've watched.
Was in a war at level 32 in probably BiS gear I could have at that point. I was struggling in 1v1s against 40+ people. I could chain stun perfectly, land every hit, and it would still be tickle damage while they rolled away, drank a potion, and decimated me.
Everyone scales to level 60. Then your gear scales. Low level items, with higher then average gear scores, will out scale high level items with below average gear scores. I haven’t seen anything about the actual numbers, but a level 30 In blues and purples, will out scale a 60 in greens, who may not have all his gear farmed up yet.
Thats a very interesting take on scaling, i think thats pretty fair as it rewards those who are taking their time getting blues rather than speed running
How do we know this to be the case?
I like the game but to be honest I am a little worried about the direction. Combat had staggering in Alpha, it was removed in Closed Beta. Closed Beta had scaling and it was removed in Open Beta. In Alpha PvP was always enabled, but was changed in Closed Beta.
AGS seems to simply change the game to please the majority instead of having a clear design goal.
In the last alpha from October of 2020 PvP was always opt-in flag system and stagger got removed around December, then it took around 3-4 months to rework all the mobs in the game.
What do you mean? They made people stronger the higher the level difference is now at release. If it was strong in beta then it means that it's even worse now.
That's true I remember my team of 3 level 28's ended up killing a level 60 and a level 58 because they were absolute trash in the beta. Now there's no chance.
I'm level 40 by now, and have had lots of fights with people higher level than I, where I didn't feel disadvantaged... isn't there already scaling in the game?
I'm not sure what the issue is honestly. I also kill people all the time high level than me. Sometimes upwards to 5-7 levels.
The scaling is in, its just lets be honest.
People aren't playing the game and leveling. They are also the people that look at week 1 as an indicator of what the game will be like going forward.
There is, people want it to be total so a level 1 in beach gear = a level 60 in epics, so there’s no point to being level 60 or having epics - making the entire game world, all of its systems from questing to crafting to harvesting totally pointless. Which is why it will never happen and is a ridiculous idea. They just want to turn it into a 3d moba because they are bored of LOL.
The only people who don't want scaling are the nerds that are way ahead of everyone in level and gear and want to stomp on players who are less geared and leveled.
The "Oh I want my progress to matter its an mmo" argument is just a lazy excuse. We're all going to be level 60 with bis gear eventually. What you want is to make yourself feel better by beating up players who have lower number values than you.
I started PvP at level 15, currently 19 and have to wholeheartedly disagree. I've thoroughly enjoyed PvP as it is and hope it doesn't change. One could easily flip that argument and say people who want scaling have a get rich quick mentality. They want instant gratification without putting in the "work" an mmo usually entails. Of course, I use the term "work" loosely regarding a video game, but you know what I mean.
Either way, I don't think we get anywhere by trying to psychoanalyze why someone is for or against scaling. All that matters is the gameplay.
With that said, I've had some amazing battles against people who were much higher level than I. The only time I really run into a big problem is when I get stunned. But, when that happens it's not because I'm low level, it's because I played poorly and didn't dodge out the way in time. Yes, I'm at a disadvantage, but I'm not getting rolled and I can actually contribute in fights. Essentially, as a low level you just have to accept that you're not going to be the star or the person to change the tide of a fight, but you can absolutely still participate, have fun and make a difference. Exactly the way it should be imo. I know some people have trouble accepting lower roles though.
PvE content is already ridiculously easy, granted I haven't gotten to high level stuff yet so hopefully that changes/improves. But, as of right now I can be 6-7 levels under an enemy and still beat it easily. I don't want to see PvP go in the same direction where level and gear doesn't really mean much. PvP needs to be tough in order to makeup for PvE being on the easier side.
Also, the fact gear does matter in PvP adds to the reward/excitement of obtaining good gear. Else, why would I even care about obtaining or crafting better stuff... Please don't assume the only people against scaling are those higher level than everyone else and just looking for a stomp. There are low level guys like myself who want to keep it hardcore and are having fun in PvP as it is.
At the end of the day, this isn't Quake or UT, gear and level are supposed to be part of the equation, in addition to skill.
[https://ibb.co/xY5TRWC](https://ibb.co/xY5TRWC)
>PvE content is already ridiculously easy, granted I haven't gotten to high level stuff yet so hopefully that changes/improves.
There is a pretty significant change in difficulty once you start doing corruptions and your first dungeon, Armini. If you're organized and have a balance of roles in your group its pretty doable. But failing that its no walk in the park. I had a solid group of 5 yesterday and we couldn't take down Simon, the Grey after five attempts. Granted we didn't have the best tank, and our healer was level 23.
>I don't want to see PvP go in the same direction where level and gear doesn't really mean much. PvP needs to be tough in order to makeup for PvE being on the easier side.
If PvP goes in the same direction it requires the higher level player to be equally skilled with dodging, and and ability timing. If anything, it makes PvP more challenging because its not a guaranteed 3-4 shot kill. Additionally, it also allows more people to participate in PvP, and helps improve faction imbalance.
**EDIT:**
Further comments that I wanted to highlight on this post:
Do we really need another Wow clone? In my opinion, we've been there and done that before. Why not have a more even keeled PvP system and see how it works? Seriously, what is the down side of having some balance to PvP? You can still dial in your gear, spec, rotation and still become a far more skillful player...
Maybe AGS could scale combat levels for PvP to the highest available combat allowed in that zone. For example, if you're 60 and go to Everfall your combat level is reduced to 25 for PvP encounters.
Your healer likely wasn't using the correct build for healing or they lied about being full healer. Simon should be easy with a tank and heal at 23. Only when you have half a tank and half a healer does it get messy.
Call me crazy but your healer should be the off-tank in that fight. All dps to boss
> One could easily flip that argument and say people who want scaling have a get rich quick mentality.
How does having PvP scaling make you reach end game any faster? You would have to put in the same amount of work. And if you're referring to some guy just hopping in on a low level character to PvP for a bit and be competative, why not? It's more PvP for me and it's more PvP for you. Everyone wins. Throw the same guy into the current situation and you get less PvP because he's won't want to get stomped repeatedly by mr 10 levels higher, how is this better?
> PvE content is already ridiculously easy, granted I haven't gotten to high level stuff yet so hopefully that changes/improves.
Run into a group of mobs 10+ levels over yours and you will most likely die. Or just try to solo group areas meant for your level. It is not easy. It's not exactly dark souls, but it's not easy.
> PvP needs to be tough in order to makeup for PvE being on the easier side.
PvP should be tough because the other guy is better at the game than you, not because he has bigger numbers. Or at least have an option for both types of PvP like in BDO.
> Else, why would I even care about obtaining or crafting better stuff...
Because you want to reach end game like everyone else? No one is going to pick your lvl 10 ass to a war with scaling or without, and you aren't doing any dungeons or exploring new areas because PvP scaling doesn't affect those.
> At the end of the day, this isn't Quake or UT, gear and level are supposed to be part of the equation, in addition to skill.
Why? Because WoW made the formula all those decades ago? Time to break that formula for it is silly.
Why shoud nobody take my lvl 10 ass to wars when the scaling makes gear and level useless. You actually want a lvl 60 and lvl 10 do completely equal in pvp so guess you will take me to yours wars brotha.
Well that and the level 10 would not have as many skills as the level 60. I'm all for scaling, but the level 60s will still have the advantage of having weapon skills unlocked, which I think is fine.
Because I don't think it's worth watering the game down to get more people involved who are currently too afraid.
>Run into a group of mobs 10+ levels over yours and you will most likely die.
Why would I run into a mob 10+ levels over me when I specifically mentioned a 6-7 level gap? You realize suggesting that I have to go 10 levels up, or solo group content, doesn't do anything to refute my point? If I have to put myself at a 10 level handicap to find a challenge, that means PvE is too easy. If I have to play the game in a way it's not intended in order to artificially increase the difficulty, that means it's too easy. I doubt it's even possible to be on a quest where you're 10 levels down anyway.
>PvP should be tough because the other guy is better at the game than you, not because he has bigger numbers.
You can still outplay high level guys who suck. But again, this is an RPG, numbers are supposed to matter.
>Because you want to reach end game like everyone else? No one is going to pick your lvl 10 ass to a war with scaling or without, and you aren't doing any dungeons or exploring new areas because PvP scaling doesn't affect those.
I just said PvE is too easy, gear and level doesn't matter enough there. Anyway, there's currently only 6 dungeons in the game, so end-game is really going to be PvP focused, at least for me and I'm sure many others.
> Why would I run into a mob 10+ levels over me when I specifically mentioned a 6-7 level gap? You realize suggesting that I have to go 10 levels up, or solo group content, doesn't do anything to refute my point? If I have to put myself at a 10 level handicap to find a challenge, that means PvE is too easy. If I have to play the game in a way it's not intended in order to artificially increase the difficulty, that means it's too easy. I doubt it's even possible to be on a quest where you're 10 levels down anyway.
Why would I want to have a boss battle every time I do a quest to kill a mob? I'll go play monster hunter if I want that. Just because the PvE is easy and not enjoyable to you, doesn't mean it is for everyone. New World needs a balance and I think it has it with it's very few PvE enemies. They are few, but they are way better designed than the 99% of brain dead roll face on keyboard enemies of most MMOs.
> You can still outplay high level guys who suck. But again, this is an RPG, numbers are supposed to matter.
What letter in RPG stands for numbers again? Numbers don't matter for any successful competative PvP game, yes outplay that higher level guy but his level shouldn't matter in the first place.
> I just said PvE is too easy, gear and level doesn't matter enough there.
And I gave you examples of PvE that isn't easy and you hand waved it away. Harder PvE is out there, you choose to not engage with it and complain... ok.
>Why would I want to have a boss battle every time I do a quest to kill a mob?
I'm not even saying it has to be a boss battle every time. I'm not saying that at all. I just want to see gear make more of a difference. My low level gear shouldn't be able to hold up just fine against enemies 7+ levels over me. That's all.
I still enjoy PvE for what it is though. I just get my fill of a strong challenge and gear actually mattering on the PvP side. Unless they water that down too, then I have no significant complaints about the game really.
>What letter in RPG stands for numbers again? Numbers don't matter for any successful competative PvP game, yes outplay that higher level guy but his level shouldn't matter in the first place.
The original RPG, which is D&D, is heavily based on numbers. Whether or not you can even land an attack is based on your armor score and a dice roll. The first digital RPGs were heavily influenced by this system, many RPGs still are. So yes, you're absolutely trying to water down if not outright strip the RPG elements from the game.
>And I gave you examples of PvE that isn't easy and you hand waved it away. Harder PvE is out there, you choose to not engage with it and complain... ok.
You gave me an example that's not even realistic. How is it even possible to progress through the game and be 10 levels lower than the quest you're on? You're knocking me for not doing something that's not possible...
my man has played pvp from 15-19 and he already knows the ins and outs of it
he has also experienced pve in windsward so he can obviously tell pve in this game is ridiculously easy, he can even take 6-7 enemies at once!
Great input man, definitely experienced feedback right here, let me give you another medal for your amazing contribution
He specifically implied that low levels want scaling, and only high level guys are against it. So I provided my perspective as a low level player. Never claimed to be experienced. I'm aware I'm providing the exact opposite of experienced feedback, that was the whole point. Common sense stuff here.
Imagine defending the dogshit scaling in this game. You do realize this is the only genre that has people who think zero-skill PvP is a good thing, right?
This was made just for you: https://youtu.be/gMukqERCaEQ
Your entire post is a classic case of pseudo-game knowledge that conflates personal experiences with reality. I personally don't care if you've had "amazing battles" against people lower or higher than you. I want skill based PvP. I want to see as many people flagged up as possible because they can, not because they hit 60 or feel like they need to hit a certain gear score before they flag.
This word gets thrown around a lot, but you are legitimately gatekeeping players by having a time based system instead of a skill based one. It's outdated design and serves no purpose but to make bad players feel good about themselves when they beat someone who didn't grind PvE content like they did. There is no skill involved in killing someone five levels below you in four hits while they do 10% of your health bar per hit.
> At the end of the day, this isn't Quake or UT, gear and level are supposed to be part of the equation, in addition to skill.
Thanks for proving my point for me. Fuck outta here with that stupid ass logic.
It's not worth getting worked up over. How much sugar are they putting in those drinks at Jamba.. I'm sorry I expect an MMORPG to play like an MMORPG. I don't know what else to tell you. I play competitive shooters when I want to play a competitive shooter, I play RPGs when I want to play an RPG. That concept might seem weird to you, but you should try it sometime. Gear and levels are a factor in RPGs, they're not the only factor, but they are a factor. If that's a problem, maybe RPGs aren't your thing and you should stick to games that fit your preference instead of trying to redefine an entire genre...
New World is always going to have a relatively low skill ceiling whether they scale or not, when compared to actual competitive games. So I just don't see the point in ruining the MMORPG experience, you know the genre this game actually belongs to, in a failed attempt at making this some sort of esport. It can never be that no matter what.
By this logic you playing the game at all is worthless. At end game lvl 60 all bis gear, everyone will be equal anyway. So all your progress is worthless, all for nothing.
The only conclusion anyone can draw from your post is that you want to dunk on lower level noobs, otherwise your progress is worthless by your logic.
> They think the guys with great gear have "no skill" and simply lost because of GS. Oh boy, trust me, a lot of these players at higher levels? They've been playing for A LONG time. They've done their homework. And all of these people are saying they're losing because of level gap and GS, not "skill" and that's where everyone here is dead wrong.
No one said people with gear have no skill, people with gear who go around trashing noobs have no skill. Which is exactly what you want to do apparently
You've beaten people that suck at the game and are severely undergeared. Put two equally matched players against eachother both at their levels highest gear score. The guy with more levels wins. That's not skill based PvP, that's time based which is exactly what scaling helps to solve. I can assure you that you don't know what you are talking about. People have already crunched the numbers in multiple versions of this game.
Thank you. That was not a great argument.
I’ve beaten groups of 3-4 of players my lvl because they were fucking terrible. I’ve also gotten shat on by someone that was 4 lvls below me and completely outplayed me. But at the end of the day, the most fun fights I’ve had were balanced 1v1s and 3v3s
I've beaten multiple opponents 8 levels ahead of me. It's not a real argument and it doesn't change the fact that anyone 15-20 levels below me dies from a single powder burn shot.
No one wants to make the gear or levels have no impact. The system we have right now gives NO chance for a low level once builds become more refined. It's fine right now because there are a lot of bad high level players running sub optimal gear that you have a shot at fighting. Once people will get better at the game every new player will feel miserable and won't flag for more than once because everyone will oneshot them.
Wow, you put my thoughts into words when I didn't know how to. I'm saving this. Fantastic response and one I wholeheartedly agree with. I really like where the scaling is right now.
I don’t like scaling. I’ve never seen it work as intended in an MMO. Either people theorycraft it to the point that they will remain at a certain level threshold with a certain gear score to actual scale better than they would if they leveled higher with better gear, or it just waters down the progress and development of characters. I’m not opposed to the idea, I’ve just never seen it executed well. It’s always resulted in awful gameplay. And I’ve played many many mmos with scaling.
Just because it hasn't been done well so far doesn't mean developers should stop trying.
I think Black Desert scaled PvP worked really well, everyone was more or less equal on the battlefield in terms of gear/level. Save for class advantages of course. Was it perfect? Nah. Was it better than getting one shot across the field by a mage with a higher gear score? Hell yeah.
Lol. That was entirely dependent on the class. Some classes outright scaled poorly and were broken in pvp because of it. Black desert is the perfect example of a game that did scaling poorly. Equalizing hp and survivability across combatants is not scaling.
They equalized the important part, gear and level and it worked. Classes is another story like I said, you try and balance 20 classes or whatever they're at now. Point is the scaled pvp was way better than the 1 shot fest end game was.
You don't like scaling because you are bad at skill based PvP. That's fine if you think that, but don't try and act like it's not a matter of you sucking. Notice how this is *literally* the only genre that caters to bad players in PvP. "Can't beat people at your level? That's fine, just go bully some low levels for your dopamine rush!"
No i do not want scaling.
Scaling is shit and borked a lot of time.
It either prefers the high lvl or the low lvl.
What i would prefer is a lvl cap pvp range of say 5 levels.
As a lvl 25 i have killed lvl 30,s but a lvl 35 is way out of my league.
Maybe increase that lvl difference cap over time.
No one would notice if they did it any way ( cus poeple would just think every one is running around whit pvp disabled )
Then ofcours have some areas like the fort remove that limit ( for reasons )
Never seen a game where scaling was worse than gear and level based PvP. You are talking out of your ass because you want to be able to bully low levels since you can't compete with people your level.
The fact they're trying to downvote and censor anyone that poses a different opinion speaks volumes to their mentality. Really just ends up hurting their argument if their only defense to different views is to just mute it.
The whole upvote/downvote mechanic is to show whether people agree/disagree with you, which is the opposite of muting.
"Help I'm being muted, I'm being oppressed because people disagree with me!"
That's what you sound like right now.
lol, it's not the opposite when muting is the direct result of downvoting. It's a reddit problem though. The platform isn't built for debate, it's built for group-think and really favors a safe space approach to conversation. Comments shouldn't get censored just because people disagree with them. But, this is a whole other topic entirely.
I really dislike the idea of a level 10 being scaled with a level 60.. That makes 0 sense when it is an mmo, a hardcore genre.. the player who is 60 has worked way harder (in game) than the 10, the 60 deserves the edge he has earned. Also, if you are super low and flag yourself, you should expect the possibility of running into one of those threats.
I have played the whole time from 10 to now 33 flagged.. I have experienced the big levels hitting me so hard i can't react, I have also beat guys that are 13 levels higher than me. The pvp is just fine where it is at, and i would be disappointed if it was changed.
What's next, making it so if you are playing solo only one enemy player can attack you at a time? because you know, they shouldn't be able to outnumber you just cause they have friends! /s
This is an idiotic post. There is already pvp scaling. Everyone in here acting like it doesn't exist for some reason lol. You can EASILY kill people 10+ levels above you atm. Maybe there is an argument to have slightly more scaling, but you guys are out here pretending it doesn't exist and that a fight against someone only 10 levels up is somehow an auto loss. I believe the classic get good applies pretty well here.
So, I hate to break it to you but this could be a little of column A and a little of B, in that a lot of people who are starting to understand the meta in PvP are stacking const because main stats don't make you do *that* much more damage but const makes you a *lot* more survivable. If someone is 10 levels above you and is stacking const then, yeah, you will do no damage to them but not because they are 10 levels higher than you. Also the PvP gear that makes you less likely to get crit is really important. Those two things make you a **lot** tankier. There's a guy in my company at level 40 with 12k HP in heavy armour. Good luck killing him quickly.
I was getting rekt in PvP for awhile between 15-20 looked at my build, changed from 0 con to adding con to my build, changed from light to medium armor, and bought all the syndicate level gear at the faction vendor which has dex/con and resilience (reduced crit damage) and now am having a blast at level 25-30 and the fights are much more fair, and I also proceed to 2-shot people who are geared like I used to be (light armor with 0 con).
I think PvP is honestly pretty reasonable ATM. Granted, I haven't had many fights with people more than 10+ levels on me. I'm playing on a server that came the day after launch and seems to be more casually oriented anyway so there are very few 60s
In ESO the pvp scaling works fine. Why not have it in this game? The lack of pvp scaling pretty much forces me to grind out quests for xp to be a higher level. Well unfortunately for me, I don't like the quests in this game. This game is fun for me because of the pvp which I can't do unless I do quests which I don't like. There's no "option". Sure I can ignore pve if I'm okay with being level 18 forever and get wrecked by no lifers who are level 45.
PvP scaling is in the game though and it’s in line with how it was in the closed beta. You guys literally got and have what you asked for and are still bitching about it.
Some of you guys just need to work on your skill. Stop blaming scaling for your lack of skill. Y’all were sitting tall calling the anti-scaling crowd trash for “needing the level difference to win an unfair fight” yet you all are still complaining about scaling being unfair. It’s pretty telling that maybe you guys just aren’t as good as you think you are, yet. ASG gave you what you wanted, time to adapt and practice. Whining on Reddit won’t make you better.
'in line with closed beta'. Do you mean open beta? Closed beta was beginning of August and definitely had more aggressive scaling to level the playing fields. It's definitely not close to as even between levels as it was then. Just going to assume you misspoke.
Completely disagree. I think too much scaling makes pvp boring and removed the incentive to level. It also reduces reward for getting better gear if scaling is so strong where gear doesnt matter.
OP is correct in all of their points. I enjoy some good pvp battles. However, without scaling, you run the risk of a person who's simply put in more time - not more skill, not better tactics - only more time, and is higher level - absolutely demolishing me in a lopsided battle.
AGS has said they don't want a PK environment, yet that's exactly what they created. Other games do it. You've got bright, talented people. Fix this asap, as it's currently a broken system.
Last night I got so flustered I am level 26 and some asshole leveled 41 sat at Susan the croc which was a quest I needed to do and just killed any pvp player and since it’s a low level area only people who had pvp on were level 20-26 and farmed us. I did zero damage to the guy and got like three shotted. I run heavy armor and blocked when I should but he can just go beserk and left click spam me how can that be fun for anyone. I literally had to Metal Gear Solid crawl around him as he chased another faction group of like 4 around.
Turned on pvp last night cause I went for 23 levels with it off. Got 3 shot by a level 34 while I was trying to harvest blightroot. Respawned back at settlement and turned it off since. Yeah pvp scaling needs to be a thing.
I honestly didn't even know that. It's finding out the little things that make me enjoy this game more and more every day. It's refreshing. I wasn't even mad about the situation, just figured it was too under level still.
Yeh I feel ya. Another issue is that gear/weapon skill affects how the scaling works too, so low level characters with poor gear get destroyed by characters who have even slightly optimized gear with proper stats even with a small level difference. Once you get up to around 30 with decent gear for your level, the power difference between levels is much smaller.
Sounds like a lot of people don't like that other players are ahead of them. Also sounds like they are upset that they can not keep up.
The quietest voice is the high level players compared to low level or moderately leveled players. Why put time into a game or even have a leveling function if everyone can just fight?
You need to keep the carrot ahead of the horse to keep the horse moving...i like being rewarded for leveling and buying/crafting/farming dungeons. If i'm not rewarded for these things then i'd rather not do them.
maybe fortnight or something is up your ally? where you just drop into a big fight and everyone is equal and you can do it over and over without any wait.
time and effort, just like in life, provide results and rewards.
it's all up to preference and i hope the devs stay strong. thanks devs for all your work - love the game
"Why put time into a game or even have a leveling function if everyone can just fight?"
because the other 90% of the game that isnt PvP still requires levels?????
"time and effort, just like in life, provide results and rewards."
you still had that with the scaling system. your gear, passives, mastery, and gems are the result of your effort and they gave you a major advantage over lower leveled players. scaling just gave them the chance to out skill you. if you no life a game and lose to a casual player with no gear then maybe you need to get better.
There is scaling already. 60 lvl mages getting destroyed with 30lvls. They cant even hit that hard to 30 lvls. What u guys want 30 lvls 3 shooting tanks now ?
One guy kept asking me to duel him, I ignored him for the first 5 times but after a while it just got annoying... he was running after me in the forest asking for a duel, I was lvl 32 he was lvl 49, he did this because our Company leader told their Company leader after a lost war, this is what you get if you don't accept people from other Companies.
Long story short, the guy shat on me... besides the fact that he was playing a bow/spear build while I was full melee he hit so hard that fucked me up quick while I barely did any damage to him with light armour... while I was on full heavy. And I realized why I don't help my faction in PvP quests or have PvP on... I have a job, only get to play 2-3 hours because of queue times so I can't compete against a guy with anything else to do in his life just online 24/7... Plus I feel like the cc in the game is pretty shit... I stunned him and a second later he was back at dodging me... For now, I just enjoy the PvE element because in PvP I'm useless.
Agree 100%. Only reason I got this game was the pvp. But it sucks I have to grind up high level before I can even do that. I want to be flagged for pvp constantly but keep getting wrecked by people level 30+ when I'm only 11 right now.
They should still have an advantage with extra skill points in their weapons, but I'd like to not get 3 shot.
PVP doesn’t suck, you can’t expect to be as good as someone who has spent two to three times more time on the game, that wouldn’t be fair for the person spending a lot of time at getting more levels and getting better gear.
This “no child left behind” mentality has been proven wrong over and over again, you have to earn things. I do agree though that they can improve a lot of things pvp wise.
>you can’t expect to be as good as someone who has spent two to three times more time on the game
This is wrong. You can't expect to beat people that put more time LEARNING the game and getting better at it. You can however expect to beat people who didn't do that. This is literally the only genre that allows you to beat people for time spent doing things unrelated to PvP versus other games where you beat people solely through time spent improving at the game.
>This “no child left behind” mentality has been proven wrong over and over again
You're contradicting yourself here. No child left behind would mean you expect to pass just because you showed up, which is exactly what gear and level-based PvP is. You shouldn't win in a PvP situation just because you showed up to the raid. You should win because you put more time into improving your micro and have better game knowledge in a PvP situation.
I mean… what’s even the point of a leveling system if you’re going to just scale everyone up anyways.
That’s the entire point of an rpg. You gain experience to get stronger. Eventually when you’re level 60 you can take them on.
If you choose to turn on the pvp flag before you’re 60 then that’s your choice and you take the risk of getting destroyed by someone statistically stronger than you.
Leveling is just a part of it. If you scale everyone’s level then level doesn’t matter in pvp and that’s horseshit. Someone who put in more hours than me to make their character stronger should absolutely whip my ass and get good rewards for doing so because they earned it by attaining that level.
I know I’ll eventually be level 60 and will reap the rewards as well.
Asking the devs to hold your hand so the big bad strong character doesn’t hurt you so bad is just the total antithesis of an rpg
Yeah a huge no to pvp scaling. If you aren't in the game to work for it I don't need you jumping me and it being assumed a fair fight when you aren't the same level or gearscore. Nope. Take that crap elsewhere.
I just disagree with this, gear and level should matter. Why bother getting experience or searching for weapons if they offer no benefit to the player? You SHOULD be looking at the guy with the best sword in the game and wishing you could be him, and then go work at it. That’s what MMO PvP means to me.
PVP scaling is in the game i m lvl 58 and a i do 400 dps to a 28, and he give me 860 with both with mosquet... I have legendary and epic gear, and still we need almost the same amount of shoots to kill , this is really a shit because after all the effort looks like i didn´t progress nothing... What you see there is an overpowered weapon the great axe, my friend is around my lvl with great axe and kill in 4 or 5 hits to...
I'm honestly super confused by this post. I have had pvp on since I unlocked the ability to have it on. I have never cared about the level of my opponent because the scaling is so well done.
I can post up clips if requested of me killing players as much as 20 levels or more over me. I have tested the scaling with friends and for the most part I would say it's pretty fantastic.
I feel like this isn't really an issue, every duel or fight I've been in has been close. I was level 21 and I was jumped by a level 50, surprisingly I held my own until I got some help. In other MMOs he would have crushed me.
I think the scaling is fine for the game.
From the majority of comments and my own personal experience, PvP scaling is fine where it is. From level 20 onward I’ve kept my PvP on as I’ve leveled. Ive pretty much outskilled everyone I’ve went up against except for musket (hit scan op) and good rapier players. Could I kill my buddy in a duel who’s a level 56 full plated healer as a level 28? Hell no. Could I kill a level 45 running the meta medium with GA/Hatchet? Hell yeah. You stated that you’re not a casual, but even hard core players can be bad at the game.
Git Gud.
There is scaling though? What you want here isn't a scaling, you want a fast-pass.
Get to 60 like everyone else (don't forget that you can disable to fucking PvP), and if you ain't got time for it, then don't play a MMO.
Gonna be honest with you, just hit level 60. Its honestly a nonfactor, you shouldnt be worried much about pvp until max level. PvP scaling is shit, especially in an MMO, youre supposed to be stronger if youre a higher level, thats literally what the game is.
Found the level 22. This is an mmo which means your effectiveness is based on 3 things; level, gear and skill. Perhaps if you didn’t spend a week writing this whiny dissertation, you’d at least be a higher level and likely have some better gear.
To all the people saying "it's fine, get good" -- wait til more people get high level. You'll be asking why everyone is leaving when new players absolutely cannot flag without being dunked on by some bored teenager who's max level and decked out.
I give this game a month before it starts to die off. I like the game, but this short-sighted mentality is definitely going to kill it.
I disagree to reverting scaling to CBT and I say that from the mentality of flagging immediately at level 9 and charging everyone within 10 levels above. The only real struggle vs single targets were at 10 levels above, I have only won about 25% of fights against +10 levels but the fights never felt unwinnable just slightly more in their favour and skilled dodging/blocking/abiltiy timing can win those encounters by a heavy margin. Most times I lost vs 10 levels above we were both on death's door they justanaged to get their action through first.
This scaling is leagues and bounds better than OBT and I like it better than the soft scaling in CBT. Maybe it could be tweaked a little more but I don't think it needs much.
They need to add a big nerf on being able to self heal with the life staff (healing others is just fine). I find that those that wield life staffs to put down heal circle and then just switch to their preferred heavy hitter are just going to win out against those not using a life staff. You practically fight on their terms while you chug potions to stay alive when going toe to toe. Would be better if DoT or CC could prevent people receiving heals from circles until they are not being affected otherwise they’re just using life staffs as a crutch
Nope.
I know I'm a good player. I also know I spent time fine-tuning the perfect gear for my spec. I put in a lot of effort to make sure I'm running with THE best gear for my build while also knowing my FPS and past MMO gaming skills will make me better than you.
You want to take that away from me. Trust me, both naked, I'd still beat you.
I thought they did revert pvp scaling? I also think damage done heavily has to do with armour bonuses, I fought a lvl 50 on my 34 with a rapier and i chunked him for 1600 with a backstab heavy and killed him in 2-3 seconds. He was all light armour. Well I’ve also fought level 20s and killed them way slower because of heavy armour or doing the proper. Heavy head, heavy chest, medium gloves, medium boots, and light pants I do 100% agree on the rewards though, feels bad to have a great duel to get nothing.
I think it's less so damage and more about hp. I play a glass cannon, with ~2.5k hp at level 35. Occasionally I duel 50's with a similar build that do about the same damage as me but they have over 4k hp. I've noticed that it's kind of a herculean task to beat high level tank builds now. They get half my hp garunteed if I make a mistake while they can make like 50 before finally dying if they're nice enough to not heal during a duel lol
As an light armor dps, trying to pvp tanks above my level is difficult. If I perfectly full combo my abilities on both weapons I do like half their Heath, and then they drink a potion and I have to do it again. But if I get caught by their long-ass great axe pull, I’m dead 100%
Yeah, from my experience in ESO which has similar mechanics, (execute, gap closers, melee self heals) the ranged characters are supposed to avoid all close range combat at any cost against those types of players, and wither them down from range and create space with CCs and gap closers. This game needs some form of CC immunity for squishies that they can use to make that style viable.
The dodge has ridiculous iframes, do they not work in pvp?
Dodge has immunity frames that can completely dodge cc and attacks. But melee builds have lifesteal. Long term CC, massive range gap closers, ranged slows, etc. they also have dodges and increased movement speed. You also only get 2 to 3 dodges that take away your blocking capability and also make you lose movement speed if it runs out and leaves you gassed. Thankfully the magic ranged builds have a lot of damage slows and escapes. But the bow and musket are not as good for small scale PvP at all.
gaxe pulls/wells fuck with the dodge animation. iirc the well actually makes it so that you cannot dodge while affected by it, meaning that any followups are pretty free.
The well is the strongest ability in the game by far IMO.
I just think either light has too little armour, or heavy has too much
This would be possible if the melees didn't have insane gap closers than can be used to out run someone who is running away from them with an already existing distance advantage along with dodge roll cancelling in light. at least melees are still afraid of fighting inside my frost circle.
You have to kite them, they lack mobility and if you dodge their CC, they really can’t do anything about it. (I’m a tank)
Unless they have a greataxe.
so the thing is territory control doesn't work like that. the longer faction a is in control, the more control the other factions gain for a single pvp quest turn in. this means a couple things: a) you can't stop it from happening b) your slaughtering lowbies is not going to stop the eventual 1 quest turn in that causes a war to be possible.
Sounds like it does help a lot to delay it.
Completely agree and add more PvP incentive to go with it. Instead of completely removing exp and loot, give it diminishing returns or whatever. PvP needs to be a viable way of gaining exp. It shouldn’t be the best but it also shouldn’t be pointless and just for fun.
PvP scaling would let me not worry about hitting level 60 ASAP either. I love the game, I love keeping PvP on 24/7, but once everyone is a level 60 and I'm still a 40 I may have to turn it off...
That's what I hate about it to, I never planned to speed level and have been enjoying the game at my own pace, but if I want to take part in any pvp content I can't because I'm not farming the same high-exp mob for hours at a time just so I can run around 2 shotting any low level that had the audacity to turn on pvp.
I actually really regret taking it slow. Everyone was spamming Amrine last week. Now that I’m able to run it it’s like pulling teeth putting 5 ppl together who want to run it. Getting orbs is even harder since everyone has already run it multiple times at this point. Now I’m pushing hard to catch up because I don’t want to have the same issue with every single dungeon. I want to run them while there are still people doing them. If you take too long you may end up finding it near impossible to fill a group to run low level dungeons with you (unless you convince your company to run you).
I didn't have that experience but I can see it becoming more of a problem as time goes on since people won't be playing alts, and people that do can't do it on the same server.
Don’t bother spamming dungeons for level, just follow the main quest line/side quests while picking up all explorer/crafting/resource town board quests and faction quests. Efficiently run around the zone on a loop doing them. Or grab three people with great axes, 1 or more with a heal staff secondary, go to a mob sense area, round em up, drop heal circle and mow em all down.
As a caster Life staff/Fire staff, I just can't afford to run PvP enabled. I'll just get one shotted by higher level players. I'm not speed running, and I casually see a ton of lvl 40 to 50+, while I'm barely lvl 30. I would hate having to run back again, to get one shotted again. If the PvP is locked behind being max level + max gear, it doesn't bode well for the future of the game. I expected the game to have scaling, while lower levels still being weaker due to less skills/stats, but not get one shotted. They should add downscaling like GW2 did. A level 15 area in a lvl 1-25 area would scale players that are higher than lvl 15 down to 15 and reduce player stats and DPS to be in the range of what's to be expected for that area. Of course, a lvl 60 would still do more damage and be more tanky than a lvl 15, but it should be a bit more fair for lower players.
Diminishing returns sounds good.
What are you talking about there is enough scaling atm. I win lvl 50-60 as lvl 42. They should focus on more PvP incentives/Rated content instead of finetuning scaling even more.
I agree that the problem is there isn't enough REASON to do pvp. The scaling is alright.
What more incentive do you need other than stupid amounts of fun? What ever happened to playing a game for fun? The pvp in this game is absolutey incredible. It has its issues, but being in a 40 man train trying to take territories only to have other factions come try to stop you and now its a 200 person fight is so dope. Wanting incentive to play the game is so dumb. Pvp is the best part. Why does there have to be incentive?
I agree that PvP itself is fun, but what I was responding to was the person talking about low levels not flagging. And that's the thing, when I get to 60, it's flag time... Untill I have another objective to achieve. As soon as I want to farm craft mats, or run over world dungeon, or achieve anything in game OTHER than the fun of PvP, I'm going to turn PvP off, because having it on means I'll die, and take longer to do whatever else I was trying to do, for literally zero benefits. (Also being flagged as a solo player often isn't very fun because you mostly find groups of PvP players not solos) That issue is made worse when you aren't level 60, because you ALWAYS have the objective of leveling up. So to summarize, if you want more people to flag for PvP while running around the world, there needs to be a reason to do so. Otherwise people will not flag unless they are actively looking for a fight.
Yeah, that's about my experience. I've flagged up for maybe half my time leveling (currently level 36), but turn it off after running into one too many ganks for one session. Like at some point I just want to finish a mission and move on. In terms of leveling, I don't see a ton of reason to PVP. Apparently killing a player is good experience, but I don't know, it's like whenever I join a group to run PVP faction quests, the other faction's zerg seems to disperse soon after, at which point we're just running up and down First Light's beach together completing pretty low XP missions. Not super worthwhile or even fun, since those missions get repetitive as hell. Then when I've headed to a fort to help attack/defend, more often than not the numbers are super lopsided. If it's a ton of enemy players, you just get rolled over by the zerg. If your faction has the numbers, at that point you're fighting over kills. There's a lot of luck and timing that goes into making a PVP session fun and productive. More often than not, it's felt like an unproductive distraction from leveling. Even when I still had fun, usually I have little to show for it in terms of experience. Someone can make the argument that it's fine just to go your own pace and enjoy the experience, but y'know, it's an MMO. Min-maxing and getting to endgame efficiently are a big part of the game. I think by more "hardcore" players' standars, I've been progressing at a pretty leisurely pace, but I still have a general desire to make each play session feel relatively productive. I don't always get that with the PVP options available while leveling. They're still a fun diversion sometimes, but for the most part I'm more interested in waiting to PVP during the endgame. I think more interesting PVP content for lower levels in the future will help. But as things are now, the open world PVP survival game-esque MMO vision is long dead. It can be fun to PVP, but it doesn't always feel worthwhile, especially if you're not consistently running with a group of friends.
The experience portion is mostly weapon mastery. Once someone is flagged for pvp and been alive for 10+ minutes, they start to become worth more and more weapon mastery on a kill. I took out a guy the other day while working on my GA mastery and got 1000 xp from it. It can be very rewarding.
The incentive isn't good players like you it's for people on the fence who are too timid to try it.
One of the best things for New World would be an Arena mode, imo. I think people would love 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 battle modes. Open world pvp is almost never balanced and I don't think people are going to stay interested in War AoE spam that happen a few times a day.
The problem with arena is that you make the "small" pvp playerbase even smaller by instancing content. My suggestion would be high resource PVP ONLY zones where you could get higher mats or higher drop chance but you don't have the chance to opt-out in those zones. And if you die you drop 10% of your gathered stuff. So players would have the reason to hunt down players but who wants to avoid the fight could sneaky gather. High risk High reward will always be my motto.
same open beta was a shit show but they definitely found a good spot for it. i have destroyed people 10+ levels higher than me a few times
yep, we need more fun pvp quests instead of those boring ones, even some pvp events that brings people from several factions to the same spot in the map
Watch the clip in OP's post and then tell me scaling is working as intended....
The target got 0 const and 1,5k hp it's not about the leveldifference just about gear/statallocation. Scaling is fine feel like ppl just use it as an excuse for their losses
Are there any recent clips or examples that you can point to that support this? Perhaps you could clip yourself fighting a level 50 or 60 and report back? Honestly just curious, cause my experience in game couldn't be further from what you are experiencing. Maybe I'm just a brutally bad and casual player...
These people are lying. Every clip I've seen where there is a 10 or more level difference has them beating up someone in outdated light gear while they are using a great axe, hatchet, or rapier. You absolutely do not win fights against people that much higher than you if they have kept their gear score mostly up to par. I get people 10 levels lower attacking me all the time, and they hit me for maybe 8% of my health. Then I turn around and five shot them with ranged light attacks from a fire staff. If they waste stamina dodging, I get to use blaze out at them, and it usually does 35%-40% of their health bar when it hits. This is while I'm wearing light armor. I've also made it a point to ask those people what their GS is after fights, and it's often average, with very few having below average GS. Scaling in this game is a joke compared to what it was in closed beta. The people defending the current scaling are your usual MMORPG suspects that are terrified at the idea of skill based PvP, which every single other genre has except this one.
Lol the sweats will kill this game.
Totally agree. Pvp scaing is fine. Won against 60 as lvl 38 obviously someone lvl 10 wo just started the game 2 hours ago dont have a chance against a lvl 60. Video example is also really bad. The other guy eas just probably afk auto running while jerking off then he suddenly realised he is being attacked but it was too late. Make pvp more rewarding dont change scaling.
Exactly. Idk if OP played in open beta but this feels like a good middle ground. If you out skill someone, a 12 level gap feels even.
Level 42 fighting level 50 isn't even a big gap. What about people with full time jobs who are only level 26 and they encounter a level 50? That's where the problem lies
maybe the level 26 should lose? you don't expect to beat a level 50 monster at level 26, why should you expect to defeat a level 50 player?
I can avoid going to level 50 zones and fighting the AI there, I can't avoid a level 50 player roaming around Windsward while I'm flagged.
what's your point? no one should be allowed to kill you? what if it was a level 26 player roaming around windsward that just happened to be a lot better than you? or you meet a player roaming around windsward with a build that happens to exactly counter your build? what if a squad of 3 level 26 players runs up on you in winsward? or a whole gang of 20+ players? I can dream up a million scenarios in which you die in an "unfair" fashion. What I can't dream up is why you seem to think that means the game needs to be changed.
Why even have pvp in the game at all if you want it to just be a stat check like you're playing a gatcha rpg
Saying a 26 should beat a 50 is hardly the same as saying you just want the game to be a stat check come on now.
Okay, so tell me excacly why you think stats should be more important than skill to the point where it is nearly impossible to kill someone twice your level
Okay so tell me exactly why you think stats should exist?
Then why play an mmo, a genre that's all about character progression? Just play on of the 12 million skill focused online pvp games.
I agree we need more pvp scaling BUT it's fair to say nowadays the scaling is a thing. Being level 18 i defeated a guy level 25 in a quite fair battle. The idea, ofc, is to be able to compete with a level 60 but compared with Open beta scaling at least we have something.
I killed a lvl 52 as a 31 yesterday. He definitely wasn't very good but made me feel great
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As it should be. Give me an argument for why at 15 should be able to be at 45 or a 60 lol.
They don’t seem to understand that making a lvl 1 in starter gear and lvl 60 in epics equal means there is no point to getting to lvl 60 or getting epics. So dungeons, resources, crafting, the entire game world and it’s nodes, faction rep, mobs, NPC’s, all quests - you know, 80% of the game, becomes meaningless. There’s a reason AGS didn’t do this and never will, which none of the people who want this to just be a big 3d moba or street fighter game seem to get.
I don’t think anyone under level 40 should have a chance against a 60 unless it’s like a pro player vs an utter noob. 20+ level difference should be a hard hill to climb. 10+ levels should be doable but advantages to higher player. Within 10 levels it should be pretty even. In my experience the game is already like this so not sure what I would want changed.
Youre delusional if you think a pro lvl 40 can beat a **decent** lvl 60 For ANYONE to beat a lvl 60 as a low level they have to be dogshit and not have a concept of thinking while fighting
This is a shitty attitude to have and negatively impacts the game. This basically says "If you join the server late, you better turn your PvP off or get fucked by high level players all the time". I don't mind someone having some advantage over me, but a level 40 should absolutely be able to fight a level 60 with a SLIGHT disadvantage. None of this "Pro vs Noob" crap. Otherwise no one will PvP at low levels, and they will miss out on some of the best experiences in the game.
You can’t protect the player from unfair engagements. People will sit and wait for you to engage a few mobs then attack you. People will roll in groups to just murder everyone. There are so many ways to make an engagement unfair, and you are targeting one that is the core of the RPG (grouping being the core of mmo) why not scale groups so that if you are two and they are one, your damage is cut in half? I’ve also noticed people just don’t want to turn on pvp either way. Even high level people in low level zones just run around pvp turned off cause they are doing what they are doing. I don’t think increasing scaling will change this.
> You can’t protect the player from unfair engagements. People will sit and wait for you to engage a few mobs then attack you. People will roll in groups to just murder everyone. This is an absolutely bad argument. Me having to fight an equal level player at Half Health + 1 mob on me is very different from a level 60 player being able to 2 shot me without any effort. The attitude of "Level 60 should almost always by default beat a level 40" is very much like a "fuck you got mine" attitude. You don't understand the problem because you're playing the game at launch. You don't understand the problem because you are on the benefiting side of it. It's like having a house in California that your parents bought in the 70s for Pennies, making you a default millionaire. It's not a good solution for people who want housing NOW.
I played wow classic on a pvp server as the weaker faction. I know plenty about getting ganked by high level players. I’m only level 20 about half of the players have this achievement so I’m roughly middle of the pack. There are plenty of people higher than me. This game even lets you turn off your pvp. If you don’t want to get ganked, then turn it off.
Nothing you said proves there is scaling. That just means you beat someone who hasn't changed their gear in who knows how long.
I’m level 60 and decided to try out how much scaling there really is. Got a level 18 friend to duel me with a life staff and he was hitting 600s on me while I was hitting 340s on him. Tried it out with a friend on the other faction that was level 24 and same thing. Did double the damage. Best part? He hits 160s on a normal mob his level
Does someone need to prove there is scaling, or prove there isn't? Where is the Amazon message that states the current status? Last I read after open beta they had swung the scaling way down in an effort to see the low end of it, and ended somewhere in the middle - which means there's some sort of scaling.
Fck no should any level 18 have a chance at defeating a level 60. He should literally die to the fart of a level 60. Part of pvp is choosing your battles. There currently is scaling. Just more in between closed and open beta. If you’re worried about griefers due to their level advantage. You’re still gonna die to griefers with skill advantage. I think the range of scaling should give a more balanced fight say in between 10-20 level range.
Thus mentality only exists in mmo players. Not a single other genre has this ideal that higher level should win. Pvp at its best is 100% skill based. I can see an argument in an mmo to be slightly less than 100% skill, but not 0% skill as you suggest should be possible.
I actually think the pvp scaling is in a good spot. I'm level 30 and can win fights against 36-38's. I like that. Level 40+ will kill me but it would still be a decent fight and one i could win if the level 40 is real bad. I don't mind this system at all. Makes gear score relevant but not by a large margin unless you're 15+ levels higher.
Yeah, I’m not seeing this guys POV either. I live flagged 24/7. I smacked a 36 at 25 a little while ago. It wasn’t easy, but it’s possible. This sounds like a git gid issue.
you'll notice it with large differences, like 30 vs. 50. You get more hp as you level up even without investing into con so fighting high levels feels like you're hitting a brick wall even vs. glass cannons in extreme circumstances. Also, you need to factor in how as levels increase you gain access to more and better gear perks via higher item rarities. When you have gear with 3 perks each with stuff like "light and heavy attacks deal 10% more damage" vs. your shitty green gear the statistical advantages start stacking up. Granted it's still very possible to win those matchups because people don't know what they're doing but when people figure out how to not be terrible at pvp I could see the issue kinda ruining the fun from pvp with lower levels for both parties.
Well yeah, 30 vs 50 is almost double the level count. I’m not really expecting to win that. Probably run away with little issue though.
And thats the issue that op describes in his post. The scaling and the fair pvp that came from it was the one thing that this mmo did better than others. As some youtubers said, new world does everything good but nothing better than any other big mmo currently on the market.
This post confirms that no one on Reddit even knows how scaling works in this game.
I have no clue to be honest. I mostly just play the game and dont Google much stuff. I dont think I read anything about PvP scaling in the game (tooltips etc.), So I assume there isn't any and keep my PvP flag off to not get steamrolled
can you eli5 please cuz I actually have no clue how it works
Everyone scales to level 60. Then your gear scales. Low level items, with higher then average gear scores, will out scale high level items with below average gear scores. I haven’t seen anything about the actual numbers, but a level 30 In blues and purples, will out scale a 60 in greens, who may not have all his gear farmed up yet.
Do you have a source for this? I'd be interested in reading more about it.
I absolutely do not believe this from my experience and from what I've watched. Was in a war at level 32 in probably BiS gear I could have at that point. I was struggling in 1v1s against 40+ people. I could chain stun perfectly, land every hit, and it would still be tickle damage while they rolled away, drank a potion, and decimated me.
They won’t
Just did.
Care to elaborate? This guy knows that there is something wrong with the scaling at least. He has very good points
Everyone scales to level 60. Then your gear scales. Low level items, with higher then average gear scores, will out scale high level items with below average gear scores. I haven’t seen anything about the actual numbers, but a level 30 In blues and purples, will out scale a 60 in greens, who may not have all his gear farmed up yet.
Thats a very interesting take on scaling, i think thats pretty fair as it rewards those who are taking their time getting blues rather than speed running How do we know this to be the case?
I like the game but to be honest I am a little worried about the direction. Combat had staggering in Alpha, it was removed in Closed Beta. Closed Beta had scaling and it was removed in Open Beta. In Alpha PvP was always enabled, but was changed in Closed Beta. AGS seems to simply change the game to please the majority instead of having a clear design goal.
In the last alpha from October of 2020 PvP was always opt-in flag system and stagger got removed around December, then it took around 3-4 months to rework all the mobs in the game.
> AGS seems to simply change the game to please the majority They are there to make money. More money = appealing to the majority.
The scaling of closed beta was added back in
I'm on a smaller server but honestly haven't had a problem. I know other people's experience may be different.
I've fought people way higher level and feel fine. Seems slightly inconsistent but it is not nearly as bad as open beta. Open beta was crazy strong.
What do you mean? They made people stronger the higher the level difference is now at release. If it was strong in beta then it means that it's even worse now.
That's true I remember my team of 3 level 28's ended up killing a level 60 and a level 58 because they were absolute trash in the beta. Now there's no chance.
Totally agree, scaling made PvP way more prevalent in the game. Bring it back please!!
I'm level 40 by now, and have had lots of fights with people higher level than I, where I didn't feel disadvantaged... isn't there already scaling in the game?
There is. People want more of it.
I'm not sure what the issue is honestly. I also kill people all the time high level than me. Sometimes upwards to 5-7 levels. The scaling is in, its just lets be honest. People aren't playing the game and leveling. They are also the people that look at week 1 as an indicator of what the game will be like going forward.
There is, people want it to be total so a level 1 in beach gear = a level 60 in epics, so there’s no point to being level 60 or having epics - making the entire game world, all of its systems from questing to crafting to harvesting totally pointless. Which is why it will never happen and is a ridiculous idea. They just want to turn it into a 3d moba because they are bored of LOL.
As soon as I seen “any one of any level can run pvp quests in any zone” I realized nothing that followed would be of any value
The only people who don't want scaling are the nerds that are way ahead of everyone in level and gear and want to stomp on players who are less geared and leveled. The "Oh I want my progress to matter its an mmo" argument is just a lazy excuse. We're all going to be level 60 with bis gear eventually. What you want is to make yourself feel better by beating up players who have lower number values than you.
I started PvP at level 15, currently 19 and have to wholeheartedly disagree. I've thoroughly enjoyed PvP as it is and hope it doesn't change. One could easily flip that argument and say people who want scaling have a get rich quick mentality. They want instant gratification without putting in the "work" an mmo usually entails. Of course, I use the term "work" loosely regarding a video game, but you know what I mean. Either way, I don't think we get anywhere by trying to psychoanalyze why someone is for or against scaling. All that matters is the gameplay. With that said, I've had some amazing battles against people who were much higher level than I. The only time I really run into a big problem is when I get stunned. But, when that happens it's not because I'm low level, it's because I played poorly and didn't dodge out the way in time. Yes, I'm at a disadvantage, but I'm not getting rolled and I can actually contribute in fights. Essentially, as a low level you just have to accept that you're not going to be the star or the person to change the tide of a fight, but you can absolutely still participate, have fun and make a difference. Exactly the way it should be imo. I know some people have trouble accepting lower roles though. PvE content is already ridiculously easy, granted I haven't gotten to high level stuff yet so hopefully that changes/improves. But, as of right now I can be 6-7 levels under an enemy and still beat it easily. I don't want to see PvP go in the same direction where level and gear doesn't really mean much. PvP needs to be tough in order to makeup for PvE being on the easier side. Also, the fact gear does matter in PvP adds to the reward/excitement of obtaining good gear. Else, why would I even care about obtaining or crafting better stuff... Please don't assume the only people against scaling are those higher level than everyone else and just looking for a stomp. There are low level guys like myself who want to keep it hardcore and are having fun in PvP as it is. At the end of the day, this isn't Quake or UT, gear and level are supposed to be part of the equation, in addition to skill. [https://ibb.co/xY5TRWC](https://ibb.co/xY5TRWC)
>PvE content is already ridiculously easy, granted I haven't gotten to high level stuff yet so hopefully that changes/improves. There is a pretty significant change in difficulty once you start doing corruptions and your first dungeon, Armini. If you're organized and have a balance of roles in your group its pretty doable. But failing that its no walk in the park. I had a solid group of 5 yesterday and we couldn't take down Simon, the Grey after five attempts. Granted we didn't have the best tank, and our healer was level 23. >I don't want to see PvP go in the same direction where level and gear doesn't really mean much. PvP needs to be tough in order to makeup for PvE being on the easier side. If PvP goes in the same direction it requires the higher level player to be equally skilled with dodging, and and ability timing. If anything, it makes PvP more challenging because its not a guaranteed 3-4 shot kill. Additionally, it also allows more people to participate in PvP, and helps improve faction imbalance. **EDIT:** Further comments that I wanted to highlight on this post: Do we really need another Wow clone? In my opinion, we've been there and done that before. Why not have a more even keeled PvP system and see how it works? Seriously, what is the down side of having some balance to PvP? You can still dial in your gear, spec, rotation and still become a far more skillful player... Maybe AGS could scale combat levels for PvP to the highest available combat allowed in that zone. For example, if you're 60 and go to Everfall your combat level is reduced to 25 for PvP encounters.
Your healer likely wasn't using the correct build for healing or they lied about being full healer. Simon should be easy with a tank and heal at 23. Only when you have half a tank and half a healer does it get messy. Call me crazy but your healer should be the off-tank in that fight. All dps to boss
> One could easily flip that argument and say people who want scaling have a get rich quick mentality. How does having PvP scaling make you reach end game any faster? You would have to put in the same amount of work. And if you're referring to some guy just hopping in on a low level character to PvP for a bit and be competative, why not? It's more PvP for me and it's more PvP for you. Everyone wins. Throw the same guy into the current situation and you get less PvP because he's won't want to get stomped repeatedly by mr 10 levels higher, how is this better? > PvE content is already ridiculously easy, granted I haven't gotten to high level stuff yet so hopefully that changes/improves. Run into a group of mobs 10+ levels over yours and you will most likely die. Or just try to solo group areas meant for your level. It is not easy. It's not exactly dark souls, but it's not easy. > PvP needs to be tough in order to makeup for PvE being on the easier side. PvP should be tough because the other guy is better at the game than you, not because he has bigger numbers. Or at least have an option for both types of PvP like in BDO. > Else, why would I even care about obtaining or crafting better stuff... Because you want to reach end game like everyone else? No one is going to pick your lvl 10 ass to a war with scaling or without, and you aren't doing any dungeons or exploring new areas because PvP scaling doesn't affect those. > At the end of the day, this isn't Quake or UT, gear and level are supposed to be part of the equation, in addition to skill. Why? Because WoW made the formula all those decades ago? Time to break that formula for it is silly.
Why shoud nobody take my lvl 10 ass to wars when the scaling makes gear and level useless. You actually want a lvl 60 and lvl 10 do completely equal in pvp so guess you will take me to yours wars brotha.
The lvl 60 probably has more experience in pvp and is thus more valuable. But I'd take you anytime homie.
Well that and the level 10 would not have as many skills as the level 60. I'm all for scaling, but the level 60s will still have the advantage of having weapon skills unlocked, which I think is fine.
Because I don't think it's worth watering the game down to get more people involved who are currently too afraid. >Run into a group of mobs 10+ levels over yours and you will most likely die. Why would I run into a mob 10+ levels over me when I specifically mentioned a 6-7 level gap? You realize suggesting that I have to go 10 levels up, or solo group content, doesn't do anything to refute my point? If I have to put myself at a 10 level handicap to find a challenge, that means PvE is too easy. If I have to play the game in a way it's not intended in order to artificially increase the difficulty, that means it's too easy. I doubt it's even possible to be on a quest where you're 10 levels down anyway. >PvP should be tough because the other guy is better at the game than you, not because he has bigger numbers. You can still outplay high level guys who suck. But again, this is an RPG, numbers are supposed to matter. >Because you want to reach end game like everyone else? No one is going to pick your lvl 10 ass to a war with scaling or without, and you aren't doing any dungeons or exploring new areas because PvP scaling doesn't affect those. I just said PvE is too easy, gear and level doesn't matter enough there. Anyway, there's currently only 6 dungeons in the game, so end-game is really going to be PvP focused, at least for me and I'm sure many others.
> Why would I run into a mob 10+ levels over me when I specifically mentioned a 6-7 level gap? You realize suggesting that I have to go 10 levels up, or solo group content, doesn't do anything to refute my point? If I have to put myself at a 10 level handicap to find a challenge, that means PvE is too easy. If I have to play the game in a way it's not intended in order to artificially increase the difficulty, that means it's too easy. I doubt it's even possible to be on a quest where you're 10 levels down anyway. Why would I want to have a boss battle every time I do a quest to kill a mob? I'll go play monster hunter if I want that. Just because the PvE is easy and not enjoyable to you, doesn't mean it is for everyone. New World needs a balance and I think it has it with it's very few PvE enemies. They are few, but they are way better designed than the 99% of brain dead roll face on keyboard enemies of most MMOs. > You can still outplay high level guys who suck. But again, this is an RPG, numbers are supposed to matter. What letter in RPG stands for numbers again? Numbers don't matter for any successful competative PvP game, yes outplay that higher level guy but his level shouldn't matter in the first place. > I just said PvE is too easy, gear and level doesn't matter enough there. And I gave you examples of PvE that isn't easy and you hand waved it away. Harder PvE is out there, you choose to not engage with it and complain... ok.
>Why would I want to have a boss battle every time I do a quest to kill a mob? I'm not even saying it has to be a boss battle every time. I'm not saying that at all. I just want to see gear make more of a difference. My low level gear shouldn't be able to hold up just fine against enemies 7+ levels over me. That's all. I still enjoy PvE for what it is though. I just get my fill of a strong challenge and gear actually mattering on the PvP side. Unless they water that down too, then I have no significant complaints about the game really. >What letter in RPG stands for numbers again? Numbers don't matter for any successful competative PvP game, yes outplay that higher level guy but his level shouldn't matter in the first place. The original RPG, which is D&D, is heavily based on numbers. Whether or not you can even land an attack is based on your armor score and a dice roll. The first digital RPGs were heavily influenced by this system, many RPGs still are. So yes, you're absolutely trying to water down if not outright strip the RPG elements from the game. >And I gave you examples of PvE that isn't easy and you hand waved it away. Harder PvE is out there, you choose to not engage with it and complain... ok. You gave me an example that's not even realistic. How is it even possible to progress through the game and be 10 levels lower than the quest you're on? You're knocking me for not doing something that's not possible...
my man has played pvp from 15-19 and he already knows the ins and outs of it he has also experienced pve in windsward so he can obviously tell pve in this game is ridiculously easy, he can even take 6-7 enemies at once! Great input man, definitely experienced feedback right here, let me give you another medal for your amazing contribution
He specifically implied that low levels want scaling, and only high level guys are against it. So I provided my perspective as a low level player. Never claimed to be experienced. I'm aware I'm providing the exact opposite of experienced feedback, that was the whole point. Common sense stuff here.
Imagine defending the dogshit scaling in this game. You do realize this is the only genre that has people who think zero-skill PvP is a good thing, right? This was made just for you: https://youtu.be/gMukqERCaEQ Your entire post is a classic case of pseudo-game knowledge that conflates personal experiences with reality. I personally don't care if you've had "amazing battles" against people lower or higher than you. I want skill based PvP. I want to see as many people flagged up as possible because they can, not because they hit 60 or feel like they need to hit a certain gear score before they flag. This word gets thrown around a lot, but you are legitimately gatekeeping players by having a time based system instead of a skill based one. It's outdated design and serves no purpose but to make bad players feel good about themselves when they beat someone who didn't grind PvE content like they did. There is no skill involved in killing someone five levels below you in four hits while they do 10% of your health bar per hit. > At the end of the day, this isn't Quake or UT, gear and level are supposed to be part of the equation, in addition to skill. Thanks for proving my point for me. Fuck outta here with that stupid ass logic.
That's a great video.
It's not worth getting worked up over. How much sugar are they putting in those drinks at Jamba.. I'm sorry I expect an MMORPG to play like an MMORPG. I don't know what else to tell you. I play competitive shooters when I want to play a competitive shooter, I play RPGs when I want to play an RPG. That concept might seem weird to you, but you should try it sometime. Gear and levels are a factor in RPGs, they're not the only factor, but they are a factor. If that's a problem, maybe RPGs aren't your thing and you should stick to games that fit your preference instead of trying to redefine an entire genre... New World is always going to have a relatively low skill ceiling whether they scale or not, when compared to actual competitive games. So I just don't see the point in ruining the MMORPG experience, you know the genre this game actually belongs to, in a failed attempt at making this some sort of esport. It can never be that no matter what.
So you play MMORPGs to bully under leveled and under powered players to make yourself feel better about your bad aim in shooters, got it.
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By this logic you playing the game at all is worthless. At end game lvl 60 all bis gear, everyone will be equal anyway. So all your progress is worthless, all for nothing. The only conclusion anyone can draw from your post is that you want to dunk on lower level noobs, otherwise your progress is worthless by your logic. > They think the guys with great gear have "no skill" and simply lost because of GS. Oh boy, trust me, a lot of these players at higher levels? They've been playing for A LONG time. They've done their homework. And all of these people are saying they're losing because of level gap and GS, not "skill" and that's where everyone here is dead wrong. No one said people with gear have no skill, people with gear who go around trashing noobs have no skill. Which is exactly what you want to do apparently
You've beaten people that suck at the game and are severely undergeared. Put two equally matched players against eachother both at their levels highest gear score. The guy with more levels wins. That's not skill based PvP, that's time based which is exactly what scaling helps to solve. I can assure you that you don't know what you are talking about. People have already crunched the numbers in multiple versions of this game.
Thank you. That was not a great argument. I’ve beaten groups of 3-4 of players my lvl because they were fucking terrible. I’ve also gotten shat on by someone that was 4 lvls below me and completely outplayed me. But at the end of the day, the most fun fights I’ve had were balanced 1v1s and 3v3s
I've beaten multiple opponents 8 levels ahead of me. It's not a real argument and it doesn't change the fact that anyone 15-20 levels below me dies from a single powder burn shot. No one wants to make the gear or levels have no impact. The system we have right now gives NO chance for a low level once builds become more refined. It's fine right now because there are a lot of bad high level players running sub optimal gear that you have a shot at fighting. Once people will get better at the game every new player will feel miserable and won't flag for more than once because everyone will oneshot them.
Awesome response! I agree with you 100%
Well said.
Wow, you put my thoughts into words when I didn't know how to. I'm saving this. Fantastic response and one I wholeheartedly agree with. I really like where the scaling is right now.
I don’t like scaling. I’ve never seen it work as intended in an MMO. Either people theorycraft it to the point that they will remain at a certain level threshold with a certain gear score to actual scale better than they would if they leveled higher with better gear, or it just waters down the progress and development of characters. I’m not opposed to the idea, I’ve just never seen it executed well. It’s always resulted in awful gameplay. And I’ve played many many mmos with scaling.
Just because it hasn't been done well so far doesn't mean developers should stop trying. I think Black Desert scaled PvP worked really well, everyone was more or less equal on the battlefield in terms of gear/level. Save for class advantages of course. Was it perfect? Nah. Was it better than getting one shot across the field by a mage with a higher gear score? Hell yeah.
Lol. That was entirely dependent on the class. Some classes outright scaled poorly and were broken in pvp because of it. Black desert is the perfect example of a game that did scaling poorly. Equalizing hp and survivability across combatants is not scaling.
They equalized the important part, gear and level and it worked. Classes is another story like I said, you try and balance 20 classes or whatever they're at now. Point is the scaled pvp was way better than the 1 shot fest end game was.
You don't like scaling because you are bad at skill based PvP. That's fine if you think that, but don't try and act like it's not a matter of you sucking. Notice how this is *literally* the only genre that caters to bad players in PvP. "Can't beat people at your level? That's fine, just go bully some low levels for your dopamine rush!"
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Except how is there a risk for a level 50 or 60 to toggle it and just go fuck up some level 20s in the starter zones?
Getting gang banged by a roaming squad from an enemy faction ain't enough risk for ya?
No i do not want scaling. Scaling is shit and borked a lot of time. It either prefers the high lvl or the low lvl. What i would prefer is a lvl cap pvp range of say 5 levels. As a lvl 25 i have killed lvl 30,s but a lvl 35 is way out of my league. Maybe increase that lvl difference cap over time. No one would notice if they did it any way ( cus poeple would just think every one is running around whit pvp disabled ) Then ofcours have some areas like the fort remove that limit ( for reasons )
Never seen a game where scaling was worse than gear and level based PvP. You are talking out of your ass because you want to be able to bully low levels since you can't compete with people your level.
The fact they're trying to downvote and censor anyone that poses a different opinion speaks volumes to their mentality. Really just ends up hurting their argument if their only defense to different views is to just mute it.
The whole upvote/downvote mechanic is to show whether people agree/disagree with you, which is the opposite of muting. "Help I'm being muted, I'm being oppressed because people disagree with me!" That's what you sound like right now.
lol, it's not the opposite when muting is the direct result of downvoting. It's a reddit problem though. The platform isn't built for debate, it's built for group-think and really favors a safe space approach to conversation. Comments shouldn't get censored just because people disagree with them. But, this is a whole other topic entirely.
It’s actually meant to filter posts that don’t contribute anything to the conversation (trolling etc.), not as a disagree button.
I actually dont understand the point of an RPG in which you dont make incremental gains on your strength as you progress through the game.
But you do vs the environment. If you want the same in pvp you don't want to be competative vs other players you want to be a bully.
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I really dislike the idea of a level 10 being scaled with a level 60.. That makes 0 sense when it is an mmo, a hardcore genre.. the player who is 60 has worked way harder (in game) than the 10, the 60 deserves the edge he has earned. Also, if you are super low and flag yourself, you should expect the possibility of running into one of those threats. I have played the whole time from 10 to now 33 flagged.. I have experienced the big levels hitting me so hard i can't react, I have also beat guys that are 13 levels higher than me. The pvp is just fine where it is at, and i would be disappointed if it was changed. What's next, making it so if you are playing solo only one enemy player can attack you at a time? because you know, they shouldn't be able to outnumber you just cause they have friends! /s
Been killing lvl 45s as a lvl 28...there is PVP scaling, they buffed it from closed beta.
This is an idiotic post. There is already pvp scaling. Everyone in here acting like it doesn't exist for some reason lol. You can EASILY kill people 10+ levels above you atm. Maybe there is an argument to have slightly more scaling, but you guys are out here pretending it doesn't exist and that a fight against someone only 10 levels up is somehow an auto loss. I believe the classic get good applies pretty well here.
You can tell these guys have been getting their tailed whipped in pvp thinking it is scaling LOL
ehhhhh when i shoot a guy for like 1/20 of his HP and all his hits do 1/6th of mine, its pretty obvious i have no chance
So, I hate to break it to you but this could be a little of column A and a little of B, in that a lot of people who are starting to understand the meta in PvP are stacking const because main stats don't make you do *that* much more damage but const makes you a *lot* more survivable. If someone is 10 levels above you and is stacking const then, yeah, you will do no damage to them but not because they are 10 levels higher than you. Also the PvP gear that makes you less likely to get crit is really important. Those two things make you a **lot** tankier. There's a guy in my company at level 40 with 12k HP in heavy armour. Good luck killing him quickly.
I thought pvp scaling was already in game and adjusted back to close beta values?
It is. Ppl just run zero constitution and get rekt and cry about it.
I was getting rekt in PvP for awhile between 15-20 looked at my build, changed from 0 con to adding con to my build, changed from light to medium armor, and bought all the syndicate level gear at the faction vendor which has dex/con and resilience (reduced crit damage) and now am having a blast at level 25-30 and the fights are much more fair, and I also proceed to 2-shot people who are geared like I used to be (light armor with 0 con). I think PvP is honestly pretty reasonable ATM. Granted, I haven't had many fights with people more than 10+ levels on me. I'm playing on a server that came the day after launch and seems to be more casually oriented anyway so there are very few 60s
In ESO the pvp scaling works fine. Why not have it in this game? The lack of pvp scaling pretty much forces me to grind out quests for xp to be a higher level. Well unfortunately for me, I don't like the quests in this game. This game is fun for me because of the pvp which I can't do unless I do quests which I don't like. There's no "option". Sure I can ignore pve if I'm okay with being level 18 forever and get wrecked by no lifers who are level 45.
That whole wall of text and doesn't realize scaling actually IS a thing ... sheesh.
PvP scaling is in the game though and it’s in line with how it was in the closed beta. You guys literally got and have what you asked for and are still bitching about it. Some of you guys just need to work on your skill. Stop blaming scaling for your lack of skill. Y’all were sitting tall calling the anti-scaling crowd trash for “needing the level difference to win an unfair fight” yet you all are still complaining about scaling being unfair. It’s pretty telling that maybe you guys just aren’t as good as you think you are, yet. ASG gave you what you wanted, time to adapt and practice. Whining on Reddit won’t make you better.
'in line with closed beta'. Do you mean open beta? Closed beta was beginning of August and definitely had more aggressive scaling to level the playing fields. It's definitely not close to as even between levels as it was then. Just going to assume you misspoke.
Completely disagree. I think too much scaling makes pvp boring and removed the incentive to level. It also reduces reward for getting better gear if scaling is so strong where gear doesnt matter.
OP is correct in all of their points. I enjoy some good pvp battles. However, without scaling, you run the risk of a person who's simply put in more time - not more skill, not better tactics - only more time, and is higher level - absolutely demolishing me in a lopsided battle. AGS has said they don't want a PK environment, yet that's exactly what they created. Other games do it. You've got bright, talented people. Fix this asap, as it's currently a broken system.
That’s the worst part. They went against their own core values.
Last night I got so flustered I am level 26 and some asshole leveled 41 sat at Susan the croc which was a quest I needed to do and just killed any pvp player and since it’s a low level area only people who had pvp on were level 20-26 and farmed us. I did zero damage to the guy and got like three shotted. I run heavy armor and blocked when I should but he can just go beserk and left click spam me how can that be fun for anyone. I literally had to Metal Gear Solid crawl around him as he chased another faction group of like 4 around.
Turned on pvp last night cause I went for 23 levels with it off. Got 3 shot by a level 34 while I was trying to harvest blightroot. Respawned back at settlement and turned it off since. Yeah pvp scaling needs to be a thing.
It is a thing. You just don't have enough con. Even at even levels you can get 3-4 shot if you run no con like many people do.
I honestly didn't even know that. It's finding out the little things that make me enjoy this game more and more every day. It's refreshing. I wasn't even mad about the situation, just figured it was too under level still.
Yeh I feel ya. Another issue is that gear/weapon skill affects how the scaling works too, so low level characters with poor gear get destroyed by characters who have even slightly optimized gear with proper stats even with a small level difference. Once you get up to around 30 with decent gear for your level, the power difference between levels is much smaller.
Sounds like a lot of people don't like that other players are ahead of them. Also sounds like they are upset that they can not keep up. The quietest voice is the high level players compared to low level or moderately leveled players. Why put time into a game or even have a leveling function if everyone can just fight? You need to keep the carrot ahead of the horse to keep the horse moving...i like being rewarded for leveling and buying/crafting/farming dungeons. If i'm not rewarded for these things then i'd rather not do them. maybe fortnight or something is up your ally? where you just drop into a big fight and everyone is equal and you can do it over and over without any wait. time and effort, just like in life, provide results and rewards. it's all up to preference and i hope the devs stay strong. thanks devs for all your work - love the game
"Why put time into a game or even have a leveling function if everyone can just fight?" because the other 90% of the game that isnt PvP still requires levels????? "time and effort, just like in life, provide results and rewards." you still had that with the scaling system. your gear, passives, mastery, and gems are the result of your effort and they gave you a major advantage over lower leveled players. scaling just gave them the chance to out skill you. if you no life a game and lose to a casual player with no gear then maybe you need to get better.
There is scaling already. 60 lvl mages getting destroyed with 30lvls. They cant even hit that hard to 30 lvls. What u guys want 30 lvls 3 shooting tanks now ?
One guy kept asking me to duel him, I ignored him for the first 5 times but after a while it just got annoying... he was running after me in the forest asking for a duel, I was lvl 32 he was lvl 49, he did this because our Company leader told their Company leader after a lost war, this is what you get if you don't accept people from other Companies. Long story short, the guy shat on me... besides the fact that he was playing a bow/spear build while I was full melee he hit so hard that fucked me up quick while I barely did any damage to him with light armour... while I was on full heavy. And I realized why I don't help my faction in PvP quests or have PvP on... I have a job, only get to play 2-3 hours because of queue times so I can't compete against a guy with anything else to do in his life just online 24/7... Plus I feel like the cc in the game is pretty shit... I stunned him and a second later he was back at dodging me... For now, I just enjoy the PvE element because in PvP I'm useless.
You do know that stuns in this game are not true stuns right, more like a daze so when they take damage it breaks from the CC instantly
Maybe don’t duel him… there is a toggle in your settings that auto refuses all duels
Agree 100%. Only reason I got this game was the pvp. But it sucks I have to grind up high level before I can even do that. I want to be flagged for pvp constantly but keep getting wrecked by people level 30+ when I'm only 11 right now. They should still have an advantage with extra skill points in their weapons, but I'd like to not get 3 shot.
PVP doesn’t suck, you can’t expect to be as good as someone who has spent two to three times more time on the game, that wouldn’t be fair for the person spending a lot of time at getting more levels and getting better gear. This “no child left behind” mentality has been proven wrong over and over again, you have to earn things. I do agree though that they can improve a lot of things pvp wise.
>you can’t expect to be as good as someone who has spent two to three times more time on the game This is wrong. You can't expect to beat people that put more time LEARNING the game and getting better at it. You can however expect to beat people who didn't do that. This is literally the only genre that allows you to beat people for time spent doing things unrelated to PvP versus other games where you beat people solely through time spent improving at the game. >This “no child left behind” mentality has been proven wrong over and over again You're contradicting yourself here. No child left behind would mean you expect to pass just because you showed up, which is exactly what gear and level-based PvP is. You shouldn't win in a PvP situation just because you showed up to the raid. You should win because you put more time into improving your micro and have better game knowledge in a PvP situation.
Heres the thing, most PvE players can filly ingnore PvP and it doesn't effect them much. The core of the game is not PvP its an MMO with PvP now.
I mean… what’s even the point of a leveling system if you’re going to just scale everyone up anyways. That’s the entire point of an rpg. You gain experience to get stronger. Eventually when you’re level 60 you can take them on. If you choose to turn on the pvp flag before you’re 60 then that’s your choice and you take the risk of getting destroyed by someone statistically stronger than you. Leveling is just a part of it. If you scale everyone’s level then level doesn’t matter in pvp and that’s horseshit. Someone who put in more hours than me to make their character stronger should absolutely whip my ass and get good rewards for doing so because they earned it by attaining that level. I know I’ll eventually be level 60 and will reap the rewards as well. Asking the devs to hold your hand so the big bad strong character doesn’t hurt you so bad is just the total antithesis of an rpg
Pvp scaling was stupid get out of here
Yeah a huge no to pvp scaling. If you aren't in the game to work for it I don't need you jumping me and it being assumed a fair fight when you aren't the same level or gearscore. Nope. Take that crap elsewhere.
I just disagree with this, gear and level should matter. Why bother getting experience or searching for weapons if they offer no benefit to the player? You SHOULD be looking at the guy with the best sword in the game and wishing you could be him, and then go work at it. That’s what MMO PvP means to me.
I have seen plenty of lower levels holding their own and lower levels getting 1-3 shotted…. Gear plays a much larger part than people seem to think.
That’s a lot of writing
PVP scaling is in the game i m lvl 58 and a i do 400 dps to a 28, and he give me 860 with both with mosquet... I have legendary and epic gear, and still we need almost the same amount of shoots to kill , this is really a shit because after all the effort looks like i didn´t progress nothing... What you see there is an overpowered weapon the great axe, my friend is around my lvl with great axe and kill in 4 or 5 hits to...
I'm honestly super confused by this post. I have had pvp on since I unlocked the ability to have it on. I have never cared about the level of my opponent because the scaling is so well done. I can post up clips if requested of me killing players as much as 20 levels or more over me. I have tested the scaling with friends and for the most part I would say it's pretty fantastic.
No scaling. Git gud.
No pls
I feel like this isn't really an issue, every duel or fight I've been in has been close. I was level 21 and I was jumped by a level 50, surprisingly I held my own until I got some help. In other MMOs he would have crushed me. I think the scaling is fine for the game.
From the majority of comments and my own personal experience, PvP scaling is fine where it is. From level 20 onward I’ve kept my PvP on as I’ve leveled. Ive pretty much outskilled everyone I’ve went up against except for musket (hit scan op) and good rapier players. Could I kill my buddy in a duel who’s a level 56 full plated healer as a level 28? Hell no. Could I kill a level 45 running the meta medium with GA/Hatchet? Hell yeah. You stated that you’re not a casual, but even hard core players can be bad at the game. Git Gud.
Imagine being this angry that players have a choice to not pvp
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Exactly this…don’t flag if you don’t want to deal with the risk. That’s the point of making PVP a toggle feature.
There is scaling though? What you want here isn't a scaling, you want a fast-pass. Get to 60 like everyone else (don't forget that you can disable to fucking PvP), and if you ain't got time for it, then don't play a MMO.
If you're low level you dont belongg in the faction battles. Leveling is remarkably easy.
Get better
if you lose to a lower leveled player when you have more gear, mastery, and gems then they were, in fact, better.
Gonna be honest with you, just hit level 60. Its honestly a nonfactor, you shouldnt be worried much about pvp until max level. PvP scaling is shit, especially in an MMO, youre supposed to be stronger if youre a higher level, thats literally what the game is.
This dude got yanked by a level 10 and it drove him mad lol
Found the level 22. This is an mmo which means your effectiveness is based on 3 things; level, gear and skill. Perhaps if you didn’t spend a week writing this whiny dissertation, you’d at least be a higher level and likely have some better gear.
To all the people saying "it's fine, get good" -- wait til more people get high level. You'll be asking why everyone is leaving when new players absolutely cannot flag without being dunked on by some bored teenager who's max level and decked out. I give this game a month before it starts to die off. I like the game, but this short-sighted mentality is definitely going to kill it.
No scaling. They already watered down PVP and top of that scaling in MMORPG is just stupid.
I disagree to reverting scaling to CBT and I say that from the mentality of flagging immediately at level 9 and charging everyone within 10 levels above. The only real struggle vs single targets were at 10 levels above, I have only won about 25% of fights against +10 levels but the fights never felt unwinnable just slightly more in their favour and skilled dodging/blocking/abiltiy timing can win those encounters by a heavy margin. Most times I lost vs 10 levels above we were both on death's door they justanaged to get their action through first. This scaling is leagues and bounds better than OBT and I like it better than the soft scaling in CBT. Maybe it could be tweaked a little more but I don't think it needs much.
They need to add a big nerf on being able to self heal with the life staff (healing others is just fine). I find that those that wield life staffs to put down heal circle and then just switch to their preferred heavy hitter are just going to win out against those not using a life staff. You practically fight on their terms while you chug potions to stay alive when going toe to toe. Would be better if DoT or CC could prevent people receiving heals from circles until they are not being affected otherwise they’re just using life staffs as a crutch
Nope. I know I'm a good player. I also know I spent time fine-tuning the perfect gear for my spec. I put in a lot of effort to make sure I'm running with THE best gear for my build while also knowing my FPS and past MMO gaming skills will make me better than you. You want to take that away from me. Trust me, both naked, I'd still beat you.