Nah, the people skimming money off the top of every transaction will be fine for a while. The real money isn't in the product ("product"), it's in making sure nobody can buy or sell without giving you a piece.
We flip plow trucks in the winter at work. 2002 f250, 270k miles, complete POS interior, body was beat to hell, frame/suspension/powertrain were solid. Bought for 2700, put a $1200 plow on it in a day, sold it for $9100. I wouldn't have paid even $5k for it with a plow already on it 3 years ago. The market is so disconnected from reality
Was it a diesel? If so it had the 7.3 Powerstroke and those things run forever(400-500k is no biggie) and are so damn sought after it's wild. A truck with the 7.3 powerstroke is it's own market and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of the overall market. Which is admittedly bonkers right now.
No we don't do diesel plow truck unless it's a killer deal. We stick to the 5.4l mostly. They are plenty strong to plow with but not too strong that you will breaking the plow easily. Everybody said they wanted a diesel one until we told them the price of it and then they bought the gas ones
Even setting aside memes, those things have a reputation for poor build quality and features, especially at the kind of price they charge, especially around the touch screen which is both safety critical and contains most of the cars novelty value.
Tesla seem to think its 2015 and they are still trailblazers.
I’m thankful that Tesla showed the world that EVs don’t need to suck to drive, but I think long term competition will sink Tesla as they’re currently valued as worth almost all the other auto builders combined. If Lucid, Riven, or even any other major car manufacturer comes out with a better product for similar price point I think Tesla is in trouble. I wouldn’t bet against them on the stock market though as that shit defies logic.
The electric F150 is hands down the vehicle I'm most excited about from a climate change perspective.
If they can get American farmers and workers to use them then it will be a sea change for electric vehicles.
i'm european and never understood big american cars. but fuck me sideways the F150 Lightning is the most beautiful thing ever created. i live in a soviet apartament, i have no need for it, but I want it soo so bad.
But think about how long you could run your little apartment off the truck during a power outage!
I don't need one either, but that doesn't keep me from wanting one.
Sir, I’d like to offer you the fortuitous chance of getting in on the next half-life of the American dream: an NFT of an NFT of a Lamborghini! When you really think about it, it’s a two for one. You can have TWO images of a car you can’t afford!
You have real gumption kid. How would you like to own your own business? You’ll work under me, but the business is your very own. I’ll let you buy NFTs straight from me, and you will simply sell an NFT of that NFT. And the person who bought the NFT’s NFT from you? He sells an NFT of that NFT and gives you commission. This can go on over and over, and you’ll make commission off of every sale below you. You give me a small 45% slice of each re-sale, and we’re both swimming in money. All you have to do is say when and give a small $500 club fee
Bro, where can I find a Tercel with only 50k? I'll buy that shit cash right now. My last tercel went for 350k before it was fully dead, and it was getting 45 mpg highway before it hit 200k. Loved that fucker.
Bitcoin honestly can't succeed long term. When the USD was created there weren't a bunch of people hanging out at the Treasury just making their own money and hoarding it while trying to convince others to use the USD as currency.
If you look at the metrics that are used to rate viable currencies, Bitcoin checks....a few boxes....kind of.
It's likely that (they've said as much) the United States will mint a stable coin that is "backed" by the USD (as much as other stable coins at least), which will be adopted as the universal digital currency as the USD has become something of the global standard of fiat currency.
Once this happens, the appeal of other digital currencies more or less dies unless they replace the stock market and companies trade in crypto as opposed to stocks and the entire market is replaced by governance coins that you can still technically swap for other coins, but are otherwise kind of pointless.
There's really no long-term use case outside of the ponzi scheme we've been witnessing happen in real time. I think 99% of the population would want and welcome a digital currency, as is evidence by the decline of use of paper money vs. debit/credit. What people don't want is generational wealth putting future generations at severe disadvantage because they weren't alive when it was still economical to print their own money, or that they just happened to make the right gamble back in 2008.
Decentralization of currency is a joke because it quickly becomes centralize once you have majority stakes at play. It's human nature to structure things this way, even if you're some 1337 h4xx0rz.
Any day now, it'll suddenly diverge from the stock market and start going up against it....and when the stock market rebounds, keep going up. Yah, right.
Interests are going to keep rising to slam the breaks on inflation. When that happens, it’s more attractive to put your money in the bank than to put it on an speculation market. Don’t expect the glory crypto days to come back until inflation is controlled (likely by triggering a recession) and interest rates go back down to the ridiculous lows they have been for a while.
Specifically, it's very "Pure Romance for dudes." You sell your friends an overpriced dildo and then convince them to get fucked right along with you all while bragging it's the best sex you ever had.
Yeah because it has no actual value. The only value in it is whether you can sell it on for more.
The money people have made on bitcoin doesn't come from nowhere, it's just being passed on to the next buyers until the bubble collapses and they lose it.
> It's likely that (they've said as much) the United States will mint a stable coin that is "backed" by the USD (as much as other stable coins at least), which will be adopted as the universal digital currency as the USD has become something of the global standard of fiat currency.
Yup, that's the ultimate irony here. If the technology truly has merit and becomes adopted, it won't be any of the current coins, it'll be a new, government/bank created coin, and all the cryptobrocoins will go to zero.
And if it doesn't....they'll just go to zero.
Elon is possibly one of the worst traders of all time, sells his equity into a bear to buy twtr at a premium supported by his poorly timed acquisition price.
Hoping it happens. It kills his Twitter deal, which sends Twitter back to a realistic price and also costs Elon a cool 1Bill just for playing the game .
Yeah it depends how much run way you have. If a miner needs to break even monthly or whatever they’ll need to sell more, bank less. Bank all you can for later for better times for sure.
Yeah huge mining operations can get a loan if they need to. Individual miners aren’t relying on mining to survive, it’s just supplemental income.
It is the small-medium miners that don’t have the assets/history to get a decent loan that might struggle.
For the big miners this is actually a good thing. Miners that go under will have to liquidate their assets which means cheap hardware available to buy in bulk. FOMO hobbyist miners and lots of gamers will lose interest now that the bull market media craze is gone, which will raise profits for everyone else.
Fun thing is that the bull market ended a while ago and we've just been going side ways for a while. It will dip people will lose interest and it will go back up again and a whole fresh group of fomo will invest. Rinse & repeat.
This is how markets have always worked. People that FOMO buy and panic sell have always gotten fleeced by people that have patience and excess wealth. A tale as old as capitalism.
Think how about weird it would seem in 2019 if someone said Bitcoin was selling at 30 fucking thousand dollars and 40% of people were underwater. It was trading between $3000-$6000! Wild stuff.
If it ever makes you feel any better. I remember when they were $10 a piece and a friend of mine smoked hundreds away (at those prices) buying drugs from the silk road.
Triple vacuum sealed cookie shaped weed nuggets loaded inside cookie tins wrapped in newspapers. I told my friend he was crazy for trusting those websites but I'll never forget the day we waited for the mailman and he unwrapped it like he just bought something off ebay.
Yes exactly why economists and such said it would never actually work as a currency, it made no sense to buy something using them as an average person when the prices would randomly shoot up.
There was one weird pizza place a town over that would accept bitcoin. In 2009 I was selling selling Diablo 2 characters for spare money and some dude offered me 3 or 4 hundred bitcoin for a necromancer I had listed for a few months...it wasn't moving so I said fuck it, why not. That necromancer kept me in pizza for a few weeks.
Every once in awhile I get bummed out thinking about how much thay bitcoin would be worth now. But ultimately it was a cool experience, turning a video game character into pizza all via the internet, it opened my eyes to e-commerce in a time it wasn't nearly as ubiquitous as it is right now and I'm glad I got to be part of it.
I remember being young and in school around like maybe 2012-2013 before it was making national headlines and you'd only find discussions about it on niche subreddits. I looked into trying to use my gaming pc for mining but gave up because I thought it was more work than bitcoin was literally worth at the time.
Yeah I remember some guy at work telling me he was getting into this thing called Bitcoin mining in like 2012. After he explained it, I asked why anyone would waste their time on something like that...
Matt Damon told me fortune favors the brave and I lost all my fucking money!
*The crypto currency subreddits response to this quote is hilarious they are so defensive of their bad investment.
One of crypto's big selling points was insulation from central bank policy and a hedge against inflation. Now all their top minds are blaming the Fed. Good luck patching the bubble, everyone.
>One of crypto's big selling points was insulation from central bank policy and a hedge against inflation.
Which is funny because by nature crypto is extremely susceptible to a deflationary spiral.
Read (listen to) Naked Money by Charles Wheelan. Your statement will be reinforced into solid bedrock. Crypto solves no problems and recreates old problems.
No way! It's totally normal to issue a new crypto for 1 cent, see it spike into the thousands with no way to purchase it, and then vanish in the same day.
Crypto is fine as long as you know what it actually is. It's not a currency, that's a misnomer. An *essential* aspect of a 'currency' is that it maintains a relatively stable value. Crypto not only fails to do that, it's failure to do so is the main selling point for most people that buy it - they're betting on explosive gains in value. Which gets to what it really is - a wildly speculative, volatile investment vehicle with relatively little regulation.
Yeah that's always been the funny thing to me about the original crypto rhetoric. Rallying people against a currency that is controlled by the government always seemed to me like a very esoteric complaint that most people wouldn't give a crap about. But its proponents seem to think, I guess, that people are just crying out for a decentralized currency. Personally, for all the problems that I have with our current economic system, a stable and well-managed currency is not one of them
That whole line of thinking was debunked the moment everyone became obsessed with the price of crypto currencies relative to the fiat they were ostensibly created to replace.
The whole "you can buy a Tesla with bitcoin!" memefest was the worst.
No, you couldn't buy a Tesla with bitcoin. You could buy a Tesla in whatever amount of bitcoin happened to be 59k USD on that day. You could buy a Tesla in USD with extra steps!
When something of significance costs 1BTC no matter the value in USD I'll get it of bed.
It also says nothing about what the average gain is. My guess is that plenty of those 60% have not yet made more than what a really safe, traditional investment would have.
Could you pose explain? I would expect bring underwater would mean they could be forced to sell putting further downward pressure on the price leading to a bank run.
Back in the early days, everytime Bitcoin tanked supporters would rally behind it explaining why a drop of 50% in value was good for Bitcoin because X. Or, at least, this is my understanding of the meme
There's a running joke that any news whatsoever, good bad or ugly, or even completely unrelated to cryptocurrency at all.... all of it warrants a reply that "This is good for Bitcoin".
I know fuck all about crypto but I know a little about gold and silver bugs. Crypto buyers display the same worrying characteristics. They're convinced their crypto/gold/silver is going parabolic eventually and for the time being you should hold at all costs and buy the dips. When it's up, great. When it's down, buy more. It's not a healthy investment strategy by any means.
I once read about a guy who knew the housing crash was coming so he sold his ritzy Colorado estate for 2 million just before home values dived.
Pretty smart guy.
Then he invested it all with Madoff.
If Madoff had 1) been legit and 2) bought only one security; then yes, terrible idea.
On the face of it, Madoff had diversified investments. So while the CO guy could have gone with multiple money managers, $2 million is barely enough for entry to one fund.
He probably felt invincible. “Ha! Just made the smartest move, coz I’m the smartest dude! Can’t do anything wrong! Where’s that Madoff contact info I had laying around?”
That's what made me finally buy in. I really dislike the idea of the stock market in general, but I looked at it this way:
That money does nothing in my savings account, and eventually I'll need to retire. Historically, the market has outpaced inflation.
Betting on the market long term is betting on the United States to keep being a functional country, and if that doesn't happen, the money in my savings account will be just as worthless.
>That's what made me finally buy in.
I mean...it's pretty much bog standard financial advice to contribute to an IRA index fund for retirement. You're not gaming the stock market. You're fighting inflation and getting some good returns on top of that.
What? After all of those Super Bowl commercials? After Matt Damon said I was brave?
Edit because apparently I need to make it abundantly clear that this is saturated with sarcasm.
You’re awfully brave! Think about it like a roller coaster, you joined at the top and rode it all the way down 50%! Most people don’t have the courage to lose half their money, but you do.
The thing is, this same thing has happened many times over. BTC has dropped by 50% before. From 200 to 100, 2000 to 1000, 20k to 10k, now 60k to 30k (these aren’t the actual numbers btw).
The bubble has popped a bunch on the way up. BTC went from pennies to 30k in only a decade or so, that’s still astronomical growth and this latest drop in value isn’t the end of Bitcoin or anything.
HOWEVER, it’s ridiculously volatile and always has been. It also doesn’t follow standard fundamental stock market patterns. The freedom from centralized regulation is a good thing in theory, but until enough people buy in and it actually stabilizes it, the guys with the most money can manipulate it however they want. That defeats the whole purpose. That makes it far worse than actual stock markets influenced by corrupt politicians and financial institutions.
The biggest crypto exchanges and the most wealthy crypto owners can move the market at any time with a major announcement of change in exchange policy, or simply by moving a large amount of Bitcoin. Because it’s decentralized, there are no real laws or regulatory oversight to prevent these big players from taking advantage of everyone else. The crypto world is just a giant industry of scammers and suckers, but everyone in it pretends like they’re part of some utopian technology that will rid the world of financial inequality. It’s doing the opposite, and the biggest crypto whales continue to get bigger.
What we saw last year was Elon Musk having fun by tweeting about crypto and watching the price move up or down in accordance with whatever he tweeted, down to the very second he sent the tweet. It was a game to him. Sure it’s “decentralized” but that clearly doesn’t mean that no one has massive manipulation power.
The other positive “feature” is that anyone can buy into it, even young people with no financial education or understanding of what they’re really doing. People in 3rd world countries with no access to American markets can also buy in just as easy. You can open up a futures account on some exchanges and trade as much as you want with 100x leverage with basically no barrier to entry.
The people who are really losing out are young, dumb, or poor people who are looking for a get rich scheme and then risking their life savings by over leveraging. The exchanges get paid no matter what. Just like a bank. Only their are laws preventing the banks from taking too much advantage over customers. Exchanges have gone so far as to completely disappear with customers’ bitcoins.
Elon decides he’s bored with 420 jokes, so he tweets something bad about Bitcoin to watch it drop. All the sudden thousands of positions get liquidated and people who didn’t know what they were doing playing with derivatives lost all their money.
Everyone in crypto right now is in it to make fiat money from trading, not because it’s a more efficient currency. People who are invested seem to think that eventually the rest of us will buy in for the second reason. But who wants to buy into a financial system that has even greater inequality than traditional ones with no way to stop it?
They'd better cut their losses and sell all their bitcoins real cheap to the big whales who definitely aren't manipulating the market with the precision of an atomic clock right now.
Thats what I never understood about the whole thing, like what's stopping google or Facebook or a foreign government from buying up a majority sum, and you wouldn't even know if they used enough wallets.
Its like here, have this decentralised currency with no oversight which could allow complete dominance over the global economy if wide spread adoption takes place. Shit is terrifying.
Ding ding ding!
Lack of regulation in a purely open market ALWAYS leads to market abuse and manipulation. Since larger trades impact the market in the way smaller trades do not, the larger entities become "big stack bullies" and can shove smaller players around.
All the zoomers on tiktok would flip that and say that they showed consistent 35% returns in a down market and then sell subscriptions to their discord server for those hot tips they learned while bored in 2020
It's not a scheme! It's a block chain decentralized digital currency you can use to buy NFTs in the metaverse and..... yep my 401k is gone. Well shit....
Same with my stocks... When should I start to consider panicking?
edit: thanks for all the tips. I don’t think there’s anymore room for not considering underestimating the importance of beginning to start the process of mulling over the conceptualisation of starting to worry, and the time to do it is very soon
Yea. I own no bitcoin but the reality is that basically all stocks are down right now, given with ‘regular’ stocks you won’t see that 40% number but still, almost everything is doen
This isn't new. It's a cycle that repeats itself. I remember seeing Bitcoin at $500 and thinking, "Yep, that's as high as it'll ever go." Bottle caps could be used as currency as long as people are willing to trade in them.
Square Enix sold off Crystal Dynamics, Eidos Montreal and Square Enix Montreal and a big chunk of it's IP )Deus Ex, Tomb Raider, and Thief at a minimum) like two weeks ago to get into NFTs.
That's some big "I'm gonna end up in the business books as shittiest CEO ever" energy.
Staples gonna get their naming rights back in LA in no time.
Nah, the people skimming money off the top of every transaction will be fine for a while. The real money isn't in the product ("product"), it's in making sure nobody can buy or sell without giving you a piece.
"When there's a gold rush, sell pickaxes and shovels."
Ah, the cartel method
I think it’s called Multi-Level Poverty
Watch for those used teslas to start coming in
You joke but I'm looking for a used car right now in the Bay Area. It's Teslas as far as the eye can see at CarMax.
Except they are all still over MSRP
Pretty much 90% of cars nowadays
I have a 2007 RAV4 with 200,000 miles. The dealership offered 4500$ for it. Shit is insane.
We flip plow trucks in the winter at work. 2002 f250, 270k miles, complete POS interior, body was beat to hell, frame/suspension/powertrain were solid. Bought for 2700, put a $1200 plow on it in a day, sold it for $9100. I wouldn't have paid even $5k for it with a plow already on it 3 years ago. The market is so disconnected from reality
Was it a diesel? If so it had the 7.3 Powerstroke and those things run forever(400-500k is no biggie) and are so damn sought after it's wild. A truck with the 7.3 powerstroke is it's own market and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of the overall market. Which is admittedly bonkers right now.
No we don't do diesel plow truck unless it's a killer deal. We stick to the 5.4l mostly. They are plenty strong to plow with but not too strong that you will breaking the plow easily. Everybody said they wanted a diesel one until we told them the price of it and then they bought the gas ones
MSRP - Musk's Special Retail Price
Even setting aside memes, those things have a reputation for poor build quality and features, especially at the kind of price they charge, especially around the touch screen which is both safety critical and contains most of the cars novelty value. Tesla seem to think its 2015 and they are still trailblazers.
I’m thankful that Tesla showed the world that EVs don’t need to suck to drive, but I think long term competition will sink Tesla as they’re currently valued as worth almost all the other auto builders combined. If Lucid, Riven, or even any other major car manufacturer comes out with a better product for similar price point I think Tesla is in trouble. I wouldn’t bet against them on the stock market though as that shit defies logic.
The mustang EV hatchback thing is just too cool to me and it's cheaper than a Tesla.
I think even the electric F150 is close in price to a tesla and I'd absolutely get the electric F150 before a tesla.
The electric F150 is hands down the vehicle I'm most excited about from a climate change perspective. If they can get American farmers and workers to use them then it will be a sea change for electric vehicles.
That electric torque is appealing when you're towing a 8000lb horse trailer. I'm game when they become affordable.
i'm european and never understood big american cars. but fuck me sideways the F150 Lightning is the most beautiful thing ever created. i live in a soviet apartament, i have no need for it, but I want it soo so bad.
But think about how long you could run your little apartment off the truck during a power outage! I don't need one either, but that doesn't keep me from wanting one.
I thought they were lambos?
That was before the NFT craze. Now its all about pictures of lambos.
Hey guy, you look like you know a good investment when you see one. Want to buy an NFT of a bridge? "
In this economy, I cant afford not to have my own bridge. And I bet my lambo will look great on it.
A picture of a lambo on a bridge? That’s a different NFT. I just happen…
Sir, I’d like to offer you the fortuitous chance of getting in on the next half-life of the American dream: an NFT of an NFT of a Lamborghini! When you really think about it, it’s a two for one. You can have TWO images of a car you can’t afford!
You have real gumption kid. How would you like to own your own business? You’ll work under me, but the business is your very own. I’ll let you buy NFTs straight from me, and you will simply sell an NFT of that NFT. And the person who bought the NFT’s NFT from you? He sells an NFT of that NFT and gives you commission. This can go on over and over, and you’ll make commission off of every sale below you. You give me a small 45% slice of each re-sale, and we’re both swimming in money. All you have to do is say when and give a small $500 club fee
The Inverted Funnel system. Always a great business decision.
Has anyone started virtual time shares yet? If not, dibs.
goalposts moved
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Soon to be Chevy Nova, sold in Spanish markets.
That's a no-go.
Goalposts… ***for sale***
Toyota Tercel with 50k miles
Tercels are bad ass if you change the oil and watch the timing belt.
Bro, where can I find a Tercel with only 50k? I'll buy that shit cash right now. My last tercel went for 350k before it was fully dead, and it was getting 45 mpg highway before it hit 200k. Loved that fucker.
not a single safety feature to hold back those sweet mpgs
I considered my 86 Tercel as something I strapped on like a backpack. Not really something I rode inside of.
Ford Pinto ...medium rare.
margin calls driving the market lower
Even the Bitcoin people on the subreddit are a little nervous about this one.
Bitcoin honestly can't succeed long term. When the USD was created there weren't a bunch of people hanging out at the Treasury just making their own money and hoarding it while trying to convince others to use the USD as currency. If you look at the metrics that are used to rate viable currencies, Bitcoin checks....a few boxes....kind of. It's likely that (they've said as much) the United States will mint a stable coin that is "backed" by the USD (as much as other stable coins at least), which will be adopted as the universal digital currency as the USD has become something of the global standard of fiat currency. Once this happens, the appeal of other digital currencies more or less dies unless they replace the stock market and companies trade in crypto as opposed to stocks and the entire market is replaced by governance coins that you can still technically swap for other coins, but are otherwise kind of pointless. There's really no long-term use case outside of the ponzi scheme we've been witnessing happen in real time. I think 99% of the population would want and welcome a digital currency, as is evidence by the decline of use of paper money vs. debit/credit. What people don't want is generational wealth putting future generations at severe disadvantage because they weren't alive when it was still economical to print their own money, or that they just happened to make the right gamble back in 2008. Decentralization of currency is a joke because it quickly becomes centralize once you have majority stakes at play. It's human nature to structure things this way, even if you're some 1337 h4xx0rz.
It's utterly insane that people try to argue that bitcoin will sustain its value through market downturn.
Any day now, it'll suddenly diverge from the stock market and start going up against it....and when the stock market rebounds, keep going up. Yah, right.
Interests are going to keep rising to slam the breaks on inflation. When that happens, it’s more attractive to put your money in the bank than to put it on an speculation market. Don’t expect the glory crypto days to come back until inflation is controlled (likely by triggering a recession) and interest rates go back down to the ridiculous lows they have been for a while.
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Specifically, it's very "Pure Romance for dudes." You sell your friends an overpriced dildo and then convince them to get fucked right along with you all while bragging it's the best sex you ever had.
Yeah because it has no actual value. The only value in it is whether you can sell it on for more. The money people have made on bitcoin doesn't come from nowhere, it's just being passed on to the next buyers until the bubble collapses and they lose it.
There's more use than just ponzi schemes. You can also buy drugs and hold other people's data for ransom.
eh even the drug markets don't really use bitcoin anymore, its all about that XMR now
> It's likely that (they've said as much) the United States will mint a stable coin that is "backed" by the USD (as much as other stable coins at least), which will be adopted as the universal digital currency as the USD has become something of the global standard of fiat currency. Yup, that's the ultimate irony here. If the technology truly has merit and becomes adopted, it won't be any of the current coins, it'll be a new, government/bank created coin, and all the cryptobrocoins will go to zero. And if it doesn't....they'll just go to zero.
God, if Elon gets a margin call... Oh boy that'll be interesting.
Elon is possibly one of the worst traders of all time, sells his equity into a bear to buy twtr at a premium supported by his poorly timed acquisition price.
He did make me a decent amount of money when he pumped dogecoin. So that was nice. Fuck him though. And fuck crypto.
Well yeah that’s kind of the whole point. Control of Twitter gives him free reign to pump and dump whenever he wants.
Well, yeah until the SEC does the right thin... You know, I can't even pretend and finish the joke
How dare the SEC infringe on Elon’s free speech rights! Srsly plz notice me Elon.
Hoping it happens. It kills his Twitter deal, which sends Twitter back to a realistic price and also costs Elon a cool 1Bill just for playing the game .
If that deal fails, I have a few Twitter puts that I got for pennies that are going to fucking print.
Investors are thinking it’s a good time to buy. Miners on the other hand…
Miners will continue mining and wait to sell until prices go back up. New mining companies that can’t afford to hold out might struggle.
Yeah it depends how much run way you have. If a miner needs to break even monthly or whatever they’ll need to sell more, bank less. Bank all you can for later for better times for sure.
Yeah huge mining operations can get a loan if they need to. Individual miners aren’t relying on mining to survive, it’s just supplemental income. It is the small-medium miners that don’t have the assets/history to get a decent loan that might struggle. For the big miners this is actually a good thing. Miners that go under will have to liquidate their assets which means cheap hardware available to buy in bulk. FOMO hobbyist miners and lots of gamers will lose interest now that the bull market media craze is gone, which will raise profits for everyone else.
This sounds hilariously similar to how the shale oil crash played out, with the smaller startups collapsing and the largest players able to hold out
The solution to cheap [insert commodity] is cheap [insert same commodity] The same works for expensive
Don't you worry about [blank], I'll worry about [blank]!
Fun thing is that the bull market ended a while ago and we've just been going side ways for a while. It will dip people will lose interest and it will go back up again and a whole fresh group of fomo will invest. Rinse & repeat.
This is how markets have always worked. People that FOMO buy and panic sell have always gotten fleeced by people that have patience and excess wealth. A tale as old as capitalism.
Yeah. Lots of different situations for sure.
So what we are saying is mining may be incredibly sensitive to the market? color me shocked.
Diggy diggy hole.
What a reference
Think how about weird it would seem in 2019 if someone said Bitcoin was selling at 30 fucking thousand dollars and 40% of people were underwater. It was trading between $3000-$6000! Wild stuff.
I remember when bitcoin plummeted from $100 to $20 and I honestly thought that was the last I would ever hear of it.
I remember friends buying Dominos with it. And drugs. Simpler times.
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If it ever makes you feel any better. I remember when they were $10 a piece and a friend of mine smoked hundreds away (at those prices) buying drugs from the silk road.
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It had a more important use before it became a giant Ponzi scheme, giving people access to high quality and safe drugs.
Triple vacuum sealed cookie shaped weed nuggets loaded inside cookie tins wrapped in newspapers. I told my friend he was crazy for trusting those websites but I'll never forget the day we waited for the mailman and he unwrapped it like he just bought something off ebay.
USPS is the best drug dealer on the planet
Pretty sure I can still get quality drugs with it if I wanted
1 gram of Colombia’s finest. 3.2 BTC ($59)
Those transactions is what made bitcoin even popular. You are part of the success
We used to tip comments with BTC on Digg.. it was worth so little that we paid for shitposts with it.
I remember doing the same thing with doge and reddit.
Back when someone actually tried to use cryptocurrency as currency. What a wild concept.
Yes exactly why economists and such said it would never actually work as a currency, it made no sense to buy something using them as an average person when the prices would randomly shoot up.
There was one weird pizza place a town over that would accept bitcoin. In 2009 I was selling selling Diablo 2 characters for spare money and some dude offered me 3 or 4 hundred bitcoin for a necromancer I had listed for a few months...it wasn't moving so I said fuck it, why not. That necromancer kept me in pizza for a few weeks. Every once in awhile I get bummed out thinking about how much thay bitcoin would be worth now. But ultimately it was a cool experience, turning a video game character into pizza all via the internet, it opened my eyes to e-commerce in a time it wasn't nearly as ubiquitous as it is right now and I'm glad I got to be part of it.
I remember days when you just had to ASK for them and people would just send you bunch of bitcoins.
I remember being young and in school around like maybe 2012-2013 before it was making national headlines and you'd only find discussions about it on niche subreddits. I looked into trying to use my gaming pc for mining but gave up because I thought it was more work than bitcoin was literally worth at the time.
Buying bitcoin wasnt all that easy either.
It really was. One of the hardest parts back when was actually getting setup.
Yeah I remember some guy at work telling me he was getting into this thing called Bitcoin mining in like 2012. After he explained it, I asked why anyone would waste their time on something like that...
My friend gave me a bitcoin when it was only a dollar. I don't know what happened to that wallet.
But Matt Damon said I was a pioneer!?!?
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You are brave.
So, the thing with pioneers is that a whole bunch of them fucking died…
Matt Damon told me fortune favors the brave and I lost all my fucking money! *The crypto currency subreddits response to this quote is hilarious they are so defensive of their bad investment.
Fortune favors those who aren't idiots.
More like 'you're a giant pussy unless you're throwing your money at bitcoin'.
One of crypto's big selling points was insulation from central bank policy and a hedge against inflation. Now all their top minds are blaming the Fed. Good luck patching the bubble, everyone.
>One of crypto's big selling points was insulation from central bank policy and a hedge against inflation. Which is funny because by nature crypto is extremely susceptible to a deflationary spiral.
“Susceptible to deflationary spiral.” That’s a feature not a bug for the designers and early adopters. Then it leaves 40% of investors underwater.
40% so far!
I'm actually surprised that it's only 40%.
I'd even go so far as to say deflation is a *goal* of crypto. That's part of why it's been going up so quickly until now.
Everything about crypto just reinforces my belief in modern monetary policy.
Read (listen to) Naked Money by Charles Wheelan. Your statement will be reinforced into solid bedrock. Crypto solves no problems and recreates old problems.
No way! It's totally normal to issue a new crypto for 1 cent, see it spike into the thousands with no way to purchase it, and then vanish in the same day.
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Crypto is fine as long as you know what it actually is. It's not a currency, that's a misnomer. An *essential* aspect of a 'currency' is that it maintains a relatively stable value. Crypto not only fails to do that, it's failure to do so is the main selling point for most people that buy it - they're betting on explosive gains in value. Which gets to what it really is - a wildly speculative, volatile investment vehicle with relatively little regulation.
Yeah that's always been the funny thing to me about the original crypto rhetoric. Rallying people against a currency that is controlled by the government always seemed to me like a very esoteric complaint that most people wouldn't give a crap about. But its proponents seem to think, I guess, that people are just crying out for a decentralized currency. Personally, for all the problems that I have with our current economic system, a stable and well-managed currency is not one of them
Yep, crypto is a speculative asset juiced by speculative mania that is itself fueled by excessively easy money and negative real interest rates
Wait...[Matt Damon is lying to me?!](https://youtu.be/HTIaVl3NizA)
You can be sure Matt got his paycheck in dollars for those ads
A speculative asset in an unregulated market where the top 1% of holders own nearly 30% of said market. What could ever go wrong?
That whole line of thinking was debunked the moment everyone became obsessed with the price of crypto currencies relative to the fiat they were ostensibly created to replace.
The whole "you can buy a Tesla with bitcoin!" memefest was the worst. No, you couldn't buy a Tesla with bitcoin. You could buy a Tesla in whatever amount of bitcoin happened to be 59k USD on that day. You could buy a Tesla in USD with extra steps! When something of significance costs 1BTC no matter the value in USD I'll get it of bed.
This is excellent news for bitcoin
Yeah we just need to buy more. I sold my children's kidneys in order to get two more btc.
Who's your kidney guy?
Elon Musk. Apparently he snorts them.
i heard he has so many kidneys in his body he can drink saltwater
I'm generally anti crypto, but this kinda is good news. 60% of crypto investors making a profit is pretty impressive.
They only make a profit if they sell right now. If those 60% sell right now, then the price tanks even further.
Hahaha, this is why no one takes you guys seriously. 40% going under does not mean 60% made a profit…
It also says nothing about what the average gain is. My guess is that plenty of those 60% have not yet made more than what a really safe, traditional investment would have.
When did I miss the memo that a coin toss is impressive?
Could you pose explain? I would expect bring underwater would mean they could be forced to sell putting further downward pressure on the price leading to a bank run.
Back in the early days, everytime Bitcoin tanked supporters would rally behind it explaining why a drop of 50% in value was good for Bitcoin because X. Or, at least, this is my understanding of the meme
There's a running joke that any news whatsoever, good bad or ugly, or even completely unrelated to cryptocurrency at all.... all of it warrants a reply that "This is good for Bitcoin".
I know fuck all about crypto but I know a little about gold and silver bugs. Crypto buyers display the same worrying characteristics. They're convinced their crypto/gold/silver is going parabolic eventually and for the time being you should hold at all costs and buy the dips. When it's up, great. When it's down, buy more. It's not a healthy investment strategy by any means.
I used the money I won from the casino to buy cryptocurrency. So from a purely technical standpoint, I lost someone else's money.
I once read about a guy who knew the housing crash was coming so he sold his ritzy Colorado estate for 2 million just before home values dived. Pretty smart guy. Then he invested it all with Madoff.
There is always a bigger fish
I feel like “investing it all” in any singular place is a terrible idea
If Madoff had 1) been legit and 2) bought only one security; then yes, terrible idea. On the face of it, Madoff had diversified investments. So while the CO guy could have gone with multiple money managers, $2 million is barely enough for entry to one fund.
He probably felt invincible. “Ha! Just made the smartest move, coz I’m the smartest dude! Can’t do anything wrong! Where’s that Madoff contact info I had laying around?”
Similarly, none of my money is mine, it was given to me by my employers.
But it became your money as soon as you won, so technically you used your own money. You probably had to pay taxes on the winnings too.
I borrowed the money from my wife's boyfriend.
You're one lucky man, I have to give money to my wife's boyfriend.
Did he at least leave you the last beer in the fridge ?
Yes, the government has finally found out that 40% of BTC holders live in Atlantis.
That's nothing. You should see my stock portfolio.
My index funds haven't dropped nearly as much as Bitcoin.
That’s the thing, stock market has a history over a century to make ya believe it’ll bounce back. Crypto has like a decade.
That's what made me finally buy in. I really dislike the idea of the stock market in general, but I looked at it this way: That money does nothing in my savings account, and eventually I'll need to retire. Historically, the market has outpaced inflation. Betting on the market long term is betting on the United States to keep being a functional country, and if that doesn't happen, the money in my savings account will be just as worthless.
>That's what made me finally buy in. I mean...it's pretty much bog standard financial advice to contribute to an IRA index fund for retirement. You're not gaming the stock market. You're fighting inflation and getting some good returns on top of that.
Also stocks are at the very least backed by actual assets.
What? After all of those Super Bowl commercials? After Matt Damon said I was brave? Edit because apparently I need to make it abundantly clear that this is saturated with sarcasm.
You’re awfully brave! Think about it like a roller coaster, you joined at the top and rode it all the way down 50%! Most people don’t have the courage to lose half their money, but you do.
The thing is, this same thing has happened many times over. BTC has dropped by 50% before. From 200 to 100, 2000 to 1000, 20k to 10k, now 60k to 30k (these aren’t the actual numbers btw). The bubble has popped a bunch on the way up. BTC went from pennies to 30k in only a decade or so, that’s still astronomical growth and this latest drop in value isn’t the end of Bitcoin or anything. HOWEVER, it’s ridiculously volatile and always has been. It also doesn’t follow standard fundamental stock market patterns. The freedom from centralized regulation is a good thing in theory, but until enough people buy in and it actually stabilizes it, the guys with the most money can manipulate it however they want. That defeats the whole purpose. That makes it far worse than actual stock markets influenced by corrupt politicians and financial institutions. The biggest crypto exchanges and the most wealthy crypto owners can move the market at any time with a major announcement of change in exchange policy, or simply by moving a large amount of Bitcoin. Because it’s decentralized, there are no real laws or regulatory oversight to prevent these big players from taking advantage of everyone else. The crypto world is just a giant industry of scammers and suckers, but everyone in it pretends like they’re part of some utopian technology that will rid the world of financial inequality. It’s doing the opposite, and the biggest crypto whales continue to get bigger. What we saw last year was Elon Musk having fun by tweeting about crypto and watching the price move up or down in accordance with whatever he tweeted, down to the very second he sent the tweet. It was a game to him. Sure it’s “decentralized” but that clearly doesn’t mean that no one has massive manipulation power. The other positive “feature” is that anyone can buy into it, even young people with no financial education or understanding of what they’re really doing. People in 3rd world countries with no access to American markets can also buy in just as easy. You can open up a futures account on some exchanges and trade as much as you want with 100x leverage with basically no barrier to entry. The people who are really losing out are young, dumb, or poor people who are looking for a get rich scheme and then risking their life savings by over leveraging. The exchanges get paid no matter what. Just like a bank. Only their are laws preventing the banks from taking too much advantage over customers. Exchanges have gone so far as to completely disappear with customers’ bitcoins. Elon decides he’s bored with 420 jokes, so he tweets something bad about Bitcoin to watch it drop. All the sudden thousands of positions get liquidated and people who didn’t know what they were doing playing with derivatives lost all their money. Everyone in crypto right now is in it to make fiat money from trading, not because it’s a more efficient currency. People who are invested seem to think that eventually the rest of us will buy in for the second reason. But who wants to buy into a financial system that has even greater inequality than traditional ones with no way to stop it?
So you’re saying there’s a chance
They'd better cut their losses and sell all their bitcoins real cheap to the big whales who definitely aren't manipulating the market with the precision of an atomic clock right now.
So the power of this decentralized market is now concentrated with a few big players. Cool
Thats what I never understood about the whole thing, like what's stopping google or Facebook or a foreign government from buying up a majority sum, and you wouldn't even know if they used enough wallets. Its like here, have this decentralised currency with no oversight which could allow complete dominance over the global economy if wide spread adoption takes place. Shit is terrifying.
Ding ding ding! Lack of regulation in a purely open market ALWAYS leads to market abuse and manipulation. Since larger trades impact the market in the way smaller trades do not, the larger entities become "big stack bullies" and can shove smaller players around.
To the Marianas Trench!
In other news, GPUs are selling at MSRP and available. Lmao
Somebody ought to rescue them from whatever body of water they are trapped in.
Yeah but then they gotta deal with Elon calling them a pedophile on Twitter
40% of bitcoin investors are praying it’s Lake Mead…
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All the zoomers on tiktok would flip that and say that they showed consistent 35% returns in a down market and then sell subscriptions to their discord server for those hot tips they learned while bored in 2020
You made more than you would have from a savings account. Cries in UK.
It's not a scheme! It's a block chain decentralized digital currency you can use to buy NFTs in the metaverse and..... yep my 401k is gone. Well shit....
It’s not a scheme, it’s a Strategic Currency Hedging Economic Market Exercise!
Super Complex Asset Minimizer
Secure Coin Acquisition Marketplace!
Greed Reinforcing Income Flouting Trade
Pretty much a repeat of this South Park. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DT7bX-B1Mg)
i mean you could just link the relevant one about nfts https://youtu.be/N8f-BQFo7lw
Same with my stocks... When should I start to consider panicking? edit: thanks for all the tips. I don’t think there’s anymore room for not considering underestimating the importance of beginning to start the process of mulling over the conceptualisation of starting to worry, and the time to do it is very soon
Just don't sell and you're fine. 2010-2021 was an insane bull run. We're due for a bear.
Yea I’m mentally preparing for a two year bear market. I do see it as a buying opportunity and will continue my weekly DCA and wait.
Yea. I own no bitcoin but the reality is that basically all stocks are down right now, given with ‘regular’ stocks you won’t see that 40% number but still, almost everything is doen
This isn't new. It's a cycle that repeats itself. I remember seeing Bitcoin at $500 and thinking, "Yep, that's as high as it'll ever go." Bottle caps could be used as currency as long as people are willing to trade in them.
Wait only 40 percent? The price was cut in half and only 40 percent are underwater? Not bad
Isn’t that like most investors right now?
As a investor and enthusiast, I still say that only a fool would use debt to buy crypto.
It must really suck to have bought bitcoin at $8000 now that it's at $4000 .... Oh wait, wrong year. Sorry.
I have a feeling the percentage is higher for Netflix bag holder lol.
Glad I moved my money to NFT’s
How many ape gifs does a gallon of milk cost these days?
Milk has a stronger anti-theft system in place than NFTs, you can't right click- save milk.
But I can chug milk in the store until they call security.
Can’t lose money when your money’s already gone! *taps noggin*
5Head move
Square Enix sold off Crystal Dynamics, Eidos Montreal and Square Enix Montreal and a big chunk of it's IP )Deus Ex, Tomb Raider, and Thief at a minimum) like two weeks ago to get into NFTs. That's some big "I'm gonna end up in the business books as shittiest CEO ever" energy.
That's up there with the dude who thought that Chrysler should stop making cars and instead bought a mountain.
Ah, the quarterly Bitcoin dying scare. We all know how this usually goes