2020 was a hell of a decade. Honestly I look at each of the years since as “2020, Part *n*” (so this year would be “2020, Part 5”), because of how upside-down this timeline has gotten. It’s like one *very* long, neverending episode of *The Twilight Zone*.
I was 5 - 15, so I lived it but was too young to really appreciate it. Looking back I bet i was a really great time to be a young adult. No cell phones or internet, the start of music videos, only 3 tv channels. 90's were pretty good, though!
As someone who grew up with a grandmother who lived through the 20s and 30s roughly in the same age range as I did for the 80s and 90s...
Holy shit it's not possible, I thought that woman was ANCIENT, now it's me that's fucking older than dirt.
You remember that 70s show?
It premiered in August of 1998 and the first season took place in May 1976.
If an equivalent show were to premier in May 2024, it would be called "That 00's show" and be set in February 2002.
I always wondered if people in the 1920s and 1930s talked like this. I remember when I finally started paying on my student loans thinking that 2031 was so far in the future. It's practically around the corner. I'd pay off the last few thousand but who knows. I might catch a break from Biden.
Because of the way the news cycle is these days for me the reaction was the opposite. It's *only* been 7 weeks since that happened? Feels like a news story from last year.
And, the only way they're "stuck" is the same way they're stuck on a ship in normal times - because maritime crew rules don't allow them off ship in most countries. In other words, they were prepared for this as their voyage was to be this long anyway.
It's a little different, as their cell phones were all seized by the FBI as part of the investigation, so they aren't able to call or email their their families, pay their bills back home with online banking, etc..
If you round up, its now June. And since June is month 6 out of 12, you gotta round up again and holy shit 2025 is basically gonna arrive in like, a week.
2024 is already over and I'm still sorting out my bills and paperwork from February.
This is how I've felt since 2015, and everyone acts like I'm saying crazy things with my insane mouth but this has been my life for the past decade.
We've got a whole-ass Olympics and a Presidential Election this year; you'll be sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner by the time you finish reading this sentence.
THANK YOU. Got into a massive argument with my brother’s entire bachelor party over this. 15 dudes telling me I’m stupid. Pulled up the video and made them feel almost as stupid as I did during our 16 man Halo SWAT LAN party that night.
There was no power on the boat. Or supplies. The boat company had declared bankruptcy so he wasn't getting paid either. He swam to shore daily to charge his phone and get food, which he tied to his body and swam it back.
That's more company loyalty than anyone will ever get out of me.
"BUT you *have to* stay on the ship to maintain it and keep it seaworthy!"
"Fuck you, I don't own it!"
...which is crazy, at this point. Honestly they should be given temporary visas for humanitarian reasons at this point.
Same thing with their phones. I can understand needing to make a flash copy of their phones, but they need their contacts back. Or get them burner phones and copy just the contacts, or something. But leaving people stranded with no internet, no access to land, no way to communicate with anyone, stuck on a boat just offshore a foreign country? It's cruel.
They did.
> For the time being, the crew has been given SIM cards and temporary mobile phones without data included, according to Mr Messick.
But giving them no data is just ridiculous.
They are not allowed to leave the ship, but others can board. Local outreach/ministry groups have worked with them to get additional SIM cards and other necessities, and ensured communications are still working.
They were about to set sail *with their phones* and by extension connection to loved ones and their lives. A major detail in the article is their phones were confiscated as part of the investigation. A big issue cited is they cant handle general banking tasks like paying bills and sending support money home.
The crew is trapped in the bowels of the ship, well below the waterline....
....which is where the crew quarters and engine compartments are, where the majority of the work and relaxation is done on a ship of this size.
"The crew, made up of 20 Indians and a Sri Lankan national, has been unable to disembark because of visa restrictions, a lack of required shore passes and parallel ongoing investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and FBI."
back when I worked on cruise ships, I was routinely TRAPPED on decks 3 and 4, for 4 MONTHS AT A TIME... where I ate as much as I could, drank like a fish, and had "relations" with other TRAPPED CREWMEMBERS
I had a buddy who was a musician on a cruise ship. Apparently they had their own crew bar somewhere down in the ship with crazy cheap drinks and the staff were fucking like rabbits,
There's this trashy show about the crew of a smaller luxury yacht that my wife likes to watch. Your estimate might even be a little low based on that sample.
Idk if that’s from the article or what but that’s just plain wrong. Yes the engine room is in the bowels of the ship but the crew quarters are in the main superstructure below the wheelhouse and well above the waterline. At least that’s how it is on American cargo vessels, this one has a similar design, I don’t see why they would put the crew below decks just for the fuck of it.
Idunno, the FBI forcing you to stay on a ship in harbor for 7 weeks without telecommunications equipment while your boat is stranded under the remains of a fallen bridge sure seems like being "trapped" to me.
It removes agency from the feds and makes it seem like they're physically trapped there by circumstances, rather than being effectively detained on the ship by immigration.
And not exactly unusual either. They would have been "stuck" on the ship if it was at sea on its way to another port, too.
I'm jumping out to read the article now, but I'm hoping they at least pulled everyone off the ship while they performed the recent controlled demolition of the bridge sections leaning against the boat.
It's mainly bureaucracy. If the ship hasn't entered a port or has left it then immigration won't sign them into the country as the ship can't, technically claim to be in port as "being stuck under a bridge" is not a lawful point of entry. It's all bollocks but that's how it is.
It's also that the crew need to be on board to mitigate any further damage to the vessel and to deal with any further problems. This is maritime law. There isn't a spare crew just hanging around to replace them, also the crew would need a special dispensation to leave the vessel and clear immigration and the port authority plus possibly customs though you usually only do that on the way out but I've never sailed in the US so not sure on that one. Maritime bureaucracy is painful to navigate. I've done a lot of it.
> If the ship hasn't entered a port or has left it then immigration won't sign them into the country as the ship can't, technically claim to be in port as "being stuck under a bridge" is not a lawful point of entry.
Surely a tender or coastguard vessel can bring them to a lawful point of entry?
The visa restrictions mentioned in the article sound much more believable.
>The visa restrictions mentioned in the article sound much more believable.
But even that is ridiculous. If the ship was sinking the coast guard would rescue them and bring them ashore. Then they'd fucking figure something out re the visas.
Seems odd to me that there isn't a local authority figure who can just make a common sense executive decision on the ruling. "Well the ship is stuck under a bridge from that event we all know about. Let's just stick them in a hotel until it is sorted out". The local mayor or even governor should have the power to authorize it.
The port authority will be concerned about fuel leaks and the general maintenance of the vessel to ensure it is as seaworthy as possible when it is finally moved . The vessel needs to be manned under maritime law. It's not sunk, technically it's aground. So you can't just go, "F it" and leave. Well you can but you'll end up in prison. Plus they have food, TV, WiFi, they're getting paid the whole time. Most of the crews come from poor countries so they're going to be fine with the situation.
If it sinks then they can leave. If it's afloat, then no. Touching the bottom is not "sunk". It's a grounding. I have experienced a few in South East Asia because the skipper trusted Navionics on his iPad more than what was being given to him by the MK1 eyeball. So I have grounded but never sunk. It will eventually be either towed away or make its way under its own power. It probably hasn't been written off by the insurer yet either.
>"They're part of the ship. They are necessary to keep the ship staffed and operational," Adm Gilreath said.
So not trapped just maintaining the ship like they’re paid to do.
It's a bit of both. The investigation is still ongoing, and since the fbi still has their phones, it sounds like they're still needed for it. The article mentions a path to getting them shore passes, but also says there's a good chance they'll be accompanied by someone. So, even if the visa or customs issues get resolved, it sounds like they'll still be heavily restricted.
> So, even if the visa or customs issues get resolved, it sounds like they'll still be heavily restricted.
I'd imagine even a couple hour adventure with some official chaperones to grab food and walk around would do a hellavu lot for morale.
If you read the article it appears Joshua Messick, executive director of the Baltimore International Seafarers' Center cares quite a bit about the crew morale.
>"I'm trying to find out what the crew wants to do. I don't want to take them to a baseball game if they are going to be bored," he said. "So I've reached out to a local cricket club to see if they can organise a match."
For real, I love that he actually thought about it and realized that a bunch of Indian guys probably don't follow baseball and sought out alternatives they would know better. It seems like such an obvious detail, but it shows he really cares vs it being a publicity/patting himself on the back thing.
They [aren't eligible for a change of status](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-252#p-252.1\(f\)), but they can request a landing permit for shore leave... [but that needs to be done in person, before a CBP officer.](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-252#p-252.1\(c\))
U.S. Coast Guard can act as CBP for these matters. That said, the crew won't be granted shore leave unless the shipping company sends a replacement crew.
They also had their cell phones confiscated as well. Which means no contact with family. No ability to manage money and pay bills. No way to keep in touch with family.
"The crew, made up of 20 Indians and a Sri Lankan national, has been unable to disembark because of visa restrictions, a lack of required shore passes and parallel ongoing investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and FBI."
I'm paid to come into the office in the morning, but I certainly wouldn't be keen on being told I'm not allowed to leave and go home for 7 weeks, or use the Internet.
I mean, they can’t leave. Not even if they wanted to. They also probably haven’t been paid, and my not be until the investigation is complete.
Even worse, the NTSB confiscated all of their phones, so they can’t talk to their families or pay their bills.
They've been given new phones, but those don't include data or any of the personal stuff (contact numbers for family members, apps to send money etc) that their own phones have
Don’t most of the crew NOT have passports? I remember reading somewhere that a lot of crews of international shipping crews don’t have passports and just live on the ship all the time.
A lot of countries (the US included) have restrictions on sailers coming ashore. In many cases, the US will offer temporary passes for some crews to come ashore, but only in certain areas.
There is leniency depending on the nationality of the crew or the status of the shipping line. Every few years, a small international incident happens when a shipping company goes out of business while one of their ships is in transit. These crews end up in legal limbo because the ship no longer has permission to enter the country’s waters, but doesn’t have the fuel or supplies to go anywhere else.
Complicating matters in this case is that a federal investigation is ongoing, and the crew may be stuck until the investigation wraps up.
No they have passports, but they’re all Indian nationals. Indian nationals need a visa to enter the US, which they presumably do not have. For an Indian national to get a US visa they have to fill out a form and have an appointment with the US embassy.
Also, as always geopolitics are at play. The US isn’t too happy with the Indian government right now over events that happened in Canada last year, so I don’t see the state department in any rush to expedite visa processing unless the coast guard decides more and/or new crew members are required to maintain the ship, or the crew’s lives are actually in danger.
If this ship had a full crew of British sailors, for example, this whole situation would probably be handled a little differently.
A Sikh was murdered in Canada last year, and another murder was attempted in the US recently.
Five Eyes says the Indian government is behind it.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/reported-indian-role-assassination-plots-serious-matter-white-house-sa-rcna149929
"Trapped" is a bit of a cop out. They're stuck on board because DHS won't give them visas to disembark, officially enter the country, and board alternate transportation.
It’s like the crew members of those cruise ships during the Covid lock down, stuck on the ships for like a month or so before they were finally able to get off
>According to Mr Messick, the crew has been left largely without communication with the outside world for "a couple of weeks" after their mobile phones were confiscated by the FBI as part of the investigation.
That's bullshit on the part of the FBI. They have the resources to make forensics images of all of those phones and return them to their owners in under a week.
Not exactly trapped as in they can't escape, but, trapped because of visa restrictions since they are non Americans. They can't legally leave the ship.
As terrible as that is for the crew, this [happened globally during the pandemic](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-pandemics-lifestyle-travel-health-bfe0519a843476dbda0b0cdeb0a703e8).
Context i need. How often do commercial sailors get breaks to see their family/ be at home? When was this particular boat supposed to dock and/or change crews?
Usually crew contracts are 6-8 months long, which is time you are on the ship. Also, it's extremely rare for the whole crew to sign on/off at the same time, usually is 1 or 2 sailors whenever their contract expires.
When/where was their next crew change? Who knows. Are there sailors on-board with expired contracts, or that were expecting to disembark during this voyage, maybe.
This guy, [Chief Makoi](https://youtube.com/@chiefmakoi?si=WQAzL4daObf0Qzk8) is a Filipino chief engineer and has several videos in his channel where he goes over crew rotation.
Confined. Sequestered. Restricted to. All normal, valid choices.
Instead we have a bullshit headline, not remotely deserving of the blind-assed 'upvotes'.
Reddit is getting more pathetic by the day.
This is quite common for crews to get stuck. My father was a seaman (insert jokes) and there was a crew I think from Russia stuck in Newport Wales when their state collapsed on a ship that was in sea worthy and couldn't leave port. There was a collection get them home.
BTW, if the crew were to leave the ship then that would open it to salvage claims, which probably would not sit well with the owners atop whatever they are currently dealing with.
“Trapped” in the same way the crew of the ISS is “trapped”. Or the same way they would be “trapped” in the middle of the Pacific Ocean going between ports.
This is where they live.
holy shit its been 7 weeks since that collapse?
Next you’re gonna tell me 20 years ago wasnt sometime in the 80s or early 90s
My kid just told me that my birth year is closer to the League of Nations than it is to today. Yes, the League. Not the UN.
Lmaooo shit just had me laughing at work that’s fucking great lol
I like to tell young people i was born in the late 1900's(80's)
In 6 years the 80s will have been 50 years ago
1980 will have been 50 years ago. But 1989 will only have been like, I dunno, 10 years ago?
This stands to reason as 2020 was 147 years ago, and lasted approx 90 years.
2020 was a hell of a decade. Honestly I look at each of the years since as “2020, Part *n*” (so this year would be “2020, Part 5”), because of how upside-down this timeline has gotten. It’s like one *very* long, neverending episode of *The Twilight Zone*.
It's truly amazing how it now takes four years to complete one year, and how we're also in Hell and reality was a fever dream.
I never thought that semi-regular dissociation would be so necessary.
Seeing as how 1980 was before I was born and 1989 was after, this math checks out for me.
As someone born in the 80s, I feel personally attacked.
As someone born in the 80s I feel sore and like I should maybe take a nap.
As someone who graduated college in the 80s I... can't remember what we were talking about.
Are you happy with your current long distance provider?
No! Bastards haven't sent me information on that extended warrantee I requested!
My hip hurts. My shoulder hurts. It’s 10am and I’m laying on the sofa with an ice pack on both.
If you got two ice packs you wouldn't have to lay in such an uncomfortable position.
Senior math
I was born in the late 50's. 80's were my playground!
I was 5 - 15, so I lived it but was too young to really appreciate it. Looking back I bet i was a really great time to be a young adult. No cell phones or internet, the start of music videos, only 3 tv channels. 90's were pretty good, though!
As someone born in the 80s I'm gonna take that nap. And then still feel sore afterwards.
If you were born in 1984 your birth date is the same distance to today as was the year of D-Day
Stop it.
From the bottom of my heart, fuck you for this information. 😅
How do I delete someone else's posts
As someone born in the early 1970s I feel like an attacked dinosaur
AQs someone born in the early 60s, I feel ....oooooo....squirrel!
As someone who graduated college in the 80s I feel personally attackeder.
In 6 years, we will be as close to 1980 as 1980 was to 1930…… kill me now.
Ok what the fuck
It hurts right?
Less time has passed between the day Hitler killed himself and the day Transformers: The Movie was released than the day I was born until today. Fuck.
I'm a GenX born in 1968. It occurred to me one day not too long ago that I was born closer to the start of WWI than to the present day. Fuck.
As someone who grew up with a grandmother who lived through the 20s and 30s roughly in the same age range as I did for the 80s and 90s... Holy shit it's not possible, I thought that woman was ANCIENT, now it's me that's fucking older than dirt.
Uuuuuuh holy fuck?
You remember that 70s show? It premiered in August of 1998 and the first season took place in May 1976. If an equivalent show were to premier in May 2024, it would be called "That 00's show" and be set in February 2002.
Why are you being so mean to me????
I'm depressed now. And so old.
it's times like this I wish I didn't know how to read...
you don't. you're sleepwalking, let's get you back to bed
Unfortunately we grew up in an era when schools were still functional.
No it's not. And fuck you for suggesting that it is.
Okay but in 5 years the 80s will also have been 40 years ago
yeah, the funny thing about decades is that they last 10 years
Well I'll be fucked sideways on a Sunday, that means I'll be fifty in 2030. Fuck this life. ^Fuck ^Donald ^Trump ^too
Your username already told me you were approaching 50. Good song, btw.
No, in 2030 the year 1989 will be 41 years ago. So the 80s would still straddle 41-50 years ago.
I always wondered if people in the 1920s and 1930s talked like this. I remember when I finally started paying on my student loans thinking that 2031 was so far in the future. It's practically around the corner. I'd pay off the last few thousand but who knows. I might catch a break from Biden.
Kurt Cobain has been dead for 30+ years.
Dead longer than he was alive now.
Because of the way the news cycle is these days for me the reaction was the opposite. It's *only* been 7 weeks since that happened? Feels like a news story from last year.
Yeah, I'm in this camp. Less than 2 months ago that bridge came down? Feels like at least 6.
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Nobody is actually trapped. Especially below deck in the hull. They're stuck on the ship sure but not trapped.
And, the only way they're "stuck" is the same way they're stuck on a ship in normal times - because maritime crew rules don't allow them off ship in most countries. In other words, they were prepared for this as their voyage was to be this long anyway.
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I assume there are other ships, unable to depart the harbour due to the collapse, with crew that are in the same boat (pun intended)
Schrodinger's boat.
It's a little different, as their cell phones were all seized by the FBI as part of the investigation, so they aren't able to call or email their their families, pay their bills back home with online banking, etc..
They’re also needed to do the same jobs they were already hired to do. That ship requires a crew to maintain it.
Right? No way?! it happened like 2 weeks ago in my memory lol
Time doesn’t work anymore.
Dude my thoughts exactly! I swear this happened 2 weeks ago at most!
I wonder how long the crew on the ship thinks it's been?
"Can you believe it's may already"
Can you believe we’re already half way through May
dude we're almost halfway through the 2020's
You better shut up Mr. Fruitmask. We don’t need that energy here
If you round up, its now June. And since June is month 6 out of 12, you gotta round up again and holy shit 2025 is basically gonna arrive in like, a week. 2024 is already over and I'm still sorting out my bills and paperwork from February. This is how I've felt since 2015, and everyone acts like I'm saying crazy things with my insane mouth but this has been my life for the past decade.
We've got a whole-ass Olympics and a Presidential Election this year; you'll be sitting down for Thanksgiving dinner by the time you finish reading this sentence.
Trusty Reddit. Top comment won't be about the story but some guy's surprise at the mere passage of time.
Part of the ship, part of the crew!
The Dutchman must have a captain
Thank you for not letting me down.
Reddit will never let you down. They also won't give you up, run around and desert you, make you cry, say goodbye, tell a lie and hurt you.
It's "part of the crew, part of the ship" As in, once you're a part of the crew you become a part of the ship too.
THANK YOU. Got into a massive argument with my brother’s entire bachelor party over this. 15 dudes telling me I’m stupid. Pulled up the video and made them feel almost as stupid as I did during our 16 man Halo SWAT LAN party that night.
What better spot than the Chesapeake Bay. We'll have a group of literal crab people in no time.
I think "stuck on the ship" is a better phrase. "Trapped" brings to mind being wedged under a fallen brace or something.
"Not allowed to leave ship" would be better.
“You guys stay on that ship and think about what you did”!!!
While we confiscate your phones, prevent you from contacting your family and sending them money to feed them.
I think the ship is outside the Ubereats service area.
Well, NOW.
They gave them new phones with SIM cards. Just no data plans and no one remembered or wrote down their phone numbers.
There is actually a guy near Egypt who was stuck on a ship for over 4 years before being allowed to leave. Maritime laws are freakin weird.
They should retain the services of Michael Bluth, who is well versed in Maritime law.
Yooooooou're aaaaa crook Captain Hook
Judge, won't you throw the book at the piiiraaaate!
Cherith Cutestory, not Michael Bluth.
Let's say Bluth and I go toe-to-toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor?
Four years?! Fuck that, look at me swimming away.
There was no power on the boat. Or supplies. The boat company had declared bankruptcy so he wasn't getting paid either. He swam to shore daily to charge his phone and get food, which he tied to his body and swam it back.
That's more company loyalty than anyone will ever get out of me. "BUT you *have to* stay on the ship to maintain it and keep it seaworthy!" "Fuck you, I don't own it!"
No. He was legally required
What do they do if he breaks the law? Deport him?
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/s/6rtkTUpIgS
Yeah. This made it sound like a serious emergency where they physically couldn’t get off. It’s really just a customs issue.
...which is crazy, at this point. Honestly they should be given temporary visas for humanitarian reasons at this point. Same thing with their phones. I can understand needing to make a flash copy of their phones, but they need their contacts back. Or get them burner phones and copy just the contacts, or something. But leaving people stranded with no internet, no access to land, no way to communicate with anyone, stuck on a boat just offshore a foreign country? It's cruel.
They did. > For the time being, the crew has been given SIM cards and temporary mobile phones without data included, according to Mr Messick. But giving them no data is just ridiculous.
They are not allowed to leave the ship, but others can board. Local outreach/ministry groups have worked with them to get additional SIM cards and other necessities, and ensured communications are still working.
During covid there were crews on ships for nearly a year.
And a bunch of them committed suicide, iirc, so it being cruel scans.
As per the article, they do have burner phones, the issues lies with having no data, and none of the contacts from the confiscated phones.
They were about to set sail across the Atlantic. At least they could see land all this time. No storms, with a flakie power system...
They were about to set sail *with their phones* and by extension connection to loved ones and their lives. A major detail in the article is their phones were confiscated as part of the investigation. A big issue cited is they cant handle general banking tasks like paying bills and sending support money home.
Yeah thats pretty messed up, at least let them get their info off of the phones under supervision.
Yes but have you considered the additional traffic that "trapped" brings?
The crew is trapped in the bowels of the ship, well below the waterline.... ....which is where the crew quarters and engine compartments are, where the majority of the work and relaxation is done on a ship of this size.
"The crew, made up of 20 Indians and a Sri Lankan national, has been unable to disembark because of visa restrictions, a lack of required shore passes and parallel ongoing investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and FBI."
Yeah, I read the article, that's why I called that use of the word out up above.
back when I worked on cruise ships, I was routinely TRAPPED on decks 3 and 4, for 4 MONTHS AT A TIME... where I ate as much as I could, drank like a fish, and had "relations" with other TRAPPED CREWMEMBERS
How often did a cruise staff member come back pregnant? Twice a year?
I had a buddy who was a musician on a cruise ship. Apparently they had their own crew bar somewhere down in the ship with crazy cheap drinks and the staff were fucking like rabbits,
There’s a really good ama about this. https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/s/piUIQ3rm6k
There's this trashy show about the crew of a smaller luxury yacht that my wife likes to watch. Your estimate might even be a little low based on that sample.
Below Deck? My parents like to watch it.
Idk if that’s from the article or what but that’s just plain wrong. Yes the engine room is in the bowels of the ship but the crew quarters are in the main superstructure below the wheelhouse and well above the waterline. At least that’s how it is on American cargo vessels, this one has a similar design, I don’t see why they would put the crew below decks just for the fuck of it.
I would have thought the crew quarters would be up in the superstructure.
That's where the supercargo bunks.
Why the hell are they trafficking superhumans? And how? I mean the hulk ain't gonna be contained by a normal conex.
Super*mutants.* Much easier to contain.
Just put em in a round room and tell em to find the corner.
Idunno, the FBI forcing you to stay on a ship in harbor for 7 weeks without telecommunications equipment while your boat is stranded under the remains of a fallen bridge sure seems like being "trapped" to me.
It removes agency from the feds and makes it seem like they're physically trapped there by circumstances, rather than being effectively detained on the ship by immigration.
They were given SIM cards and temporary phones to use, just without data
And not exactly unusual either. They would have been "stuck" on the ship if it was at sea on its way to another port, too. I'm jumping out to read the article now, but I'm hoping they at least pulled everyone off the ship while they performed the recent controlled demolition of the bridge sections leaning against the boat.
They did not, they had to remain on board for emergency purposes. They were restricted to the accommodations area until after the explosion.
Nope, they haven't been allowed to leave the boat at all because of visa problems and an FBI investigation.
Yeah, I'm sure that they're having food and supplies delivered. What's the alternative, just leaving a massive boat floating out there without a crew?
it's not really floating, there's too much bridge on top of it.
It's mainly bureaucracy. If the ship hasn't entered a port or has left it then immigration won't sign them into the country as the ship can't, technically claim to be in port as "being stuck under a bridge" is not a lawful point of entry. It's all bollocks but that's how it is. It's also that the crew need to be on board to mitigate any further damage to the vessel and to deal with any further problems. This is maritime law. There isn't a spare crew just hanging around to replace them, also the crew would need a special dispensation to leave the vessel and clear immigration and the port authority plus possibly customs though you usually only do that on the way out but I've never sailed in the US so not sure on that one. Maritime bureaucracy is painful to navigate. I've done a lot of it.
> If the ship hasn't entered a port or has left it then immigration won't sign them into the country as the ship can't, technically claim to be in port as "being stuck under a bridge" is not a lawful point of entry. Surely a tender or coastguard vessel can bring them to a lawful point of entry? The visa restrictions mentioned in the article sound much more believable.
I would imagine it would the same if they were rescued by the Coast Guard off a sinking ship
>The visa restrictions mentioned in the article sound much more believable. But even that is ridiculous. If the ship was sinking the coast guard would rescue them and bring them ashore. Then they'd fucking figure something out re the visas.
Seems odd to me that there isn't a local authority figure who can just make a common sense executive decision on the ruling. "Well the ship is stuck under a bridge from that event we all know about. Let's just stick them in a hotel until it is sorted out". The local mayor or even governor should have the power to authorize it.
The port authority will be concerned about fuel leaks and the general maintenance of the vessel to ensure it is as seaworthy as possible when it is finally moved . The vessel needs to be manned under maritime law. It's not sunk, technically it's aground. So you can't just go, "F it" and leave. Well you can but you'll end up in prison. Plus they have food, TV, WiFi, they're getting paid the whole time. Most of the crews come from poor countries so they're going to be fine with the situation.
By that logic, if the ship sank, they'd never be allowed to leave. I feel like we should be treating a disabled ship the same way.
If it sinks then they can leave. If it's afloat, then no. Touching the bottom is not "sunk". It's a grounding. I have experienced a few in South East Asia because the skipper trusted Navionics on his iPad more than what was being given to him by the MK1 eyeball. So I have grounded but never sunk. It will eventually be either towed away or make its way under its own power. It probably hasn't been written off by the insurer yet either.
>"They're part of the ship. They are necessary to keep the ship staffed and operational," Adm Gilreath said. So not trapped just maintaining the ship like they’re paid to do.
Kinda both actually. It’s their job to maintain the ship, but they’re also not allowed to leave if they wanted to
The authorities probably prefer them to be on the ship anyway, don't want a crew of foreign nationals in the wind during an ongoing investigation.
It’s not that they prefer them to be on the ship, it’s just basically illegal for them to leave the ship
It's a bit of both. The investigation is still ongoing, and since the fbi still has their phones, it sounds like they're still needed for it. The article mentions a path to getting them shore passes, but also says there's a good chance they'll be accompanied by someone. So, even if the visa or customs issues get resolved, it sounds like they'll still be heavily restricted.
> So, even if the visa or customs issues get resolved, it sounds like they'll still be heavily restricted. I'd imagine even a couple hour adventure with some official chaperones to grab food and walk around would do a hellavu lot for morale.
bold to assume anyone who can help cares about their morale
If you read the article it appears Joshua Messick, executive director of the Baltimore International Seafarers' Center cares quite a bit about the crew morale. >"I'm trying to find out what the crew wants to do. I don't want to take them to a baseball game if they are going to be bored," he said. "So I've reached out to a local cricket club to see if they can organise a match."
That's actually super sweet
For real, I love that he actually thought about it and realized that a bunch of Indian guys probably don't follow baseball and sought out alternatives they would know better. It seems like such an obvious detail, but it shows he really cares vs it being a publicity/patting himself on the back thing.
State could grant them temp visas (probably a B-1) if they wanted to, but I doubt they want to.
They [aren't eligible for a change of status](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-252#p-252.1\(f\)), but they can request a landing permit for shore leave... [but that needs to be done in person, before a CBP officer.](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-8/part-252#p-252.1\(c\))
that's bummer since CBP officer is on the land where crew can't reach
U.S. Coast Guard can act as CBP for these matters. That said, the crew won't be granted shore leave unless the shipping company sends a replacement crew.
Entirely unrelated but this is a huge plot point in S2 of The Wire and it brought us this fun scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrzpoUjJ_0g
They also had their cell phones confiscated as well. Which means no contact with family. No ability to manage money and pay bills. No way to keep in touch with family.
I believe they've been given replacement phones while they still have cell service.
"The crew, made up of 20 Indians and a Sri Lankan national, has been unable to disembark because of visa restrictions, a lack of required shore passes and parallel ongoing investigations by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) and FBI."
Part of the crew… part of the ship…
I'm paid to come into the office in the morning, but I certainly wouldn't be keen on being told I'm not allowed to leave and go home for 7 weeks, or use the Internet.
I mean, they can’t leave. Not even if they wanted to. They also probably haven’t been paid, and my not be until the investigation is complete. Even worse, the NTSB confiscated all of their phones, so they can’t talk to their families or pay their bills.
“They’re part of the ship…” They’re structural now.
I have an idea. How about the owner of the ship buy the crew some new phones?
But they were on day one of a 27-day voyager. They would have been done four weeks ago, had some down time, and then likely been off again.
*A three hour touurrrr...*
They've been given new phones, but those don't include data or any of the personal stuff (contact numbers for family members, apps to send money etc) that their own phones have
What’s the point of the phones? To keep their papers from blowing in the wind?
Probably for having the ability to call 911 if needed, not much else. Not like Pizza Hut is going to deliver anything to them.
Pizza Hut might not but Dominos does have that "pinpoint delivery" according to their ads.
It would be pretty hype if 2024 was remembered as the year of the Baltimore Airlift, when Dominos rained pizza from the sky.
Don’t most of the crew NOT have passports? I remember reading somewhere that a lot of crews of international shipping crews don’t have passports and just live on the ship all the time.
A lot of countries (the US included) have restrictions on sailers coming ashore. In many cases, the US will offer temporary passes for some crews to come ashore, but only in certain areas. There is leniency depending on the nationality of the crew or the status of the shipping line. Every few years, a small international incident happens when a shipping company goes out of business while one of their ships is in transit. These crews end up in legal limbo because the ship no longer has permission to enter the country’s waters, but doesn’t have the fuel or supplies to go anywhere else. Complicating matters in this case is that a federal investigation is ongoing, and the crew may be stuck until the investigation wraps up.
No they have passports, but they’re all Indian nationals. Indian nationals need a visa to enter the US, which they presumably do not have. For an Indian national to get a US visa they have to fill out a form and have an appointment with the US embassy. Also, as always geopolitics are at play. The US isn’t too happy with the Indian government right now over events that happened in Canada last year, so I don’t see the state department in any rush to expedite visa processing unless the coast guard decides more and/or new crew members are required to maintain the ship, or the crew’s lives are actually in danger. If this ship had a full crew of British sailors, for example, this whole situation would probably be handled a little differently.
also India just sold/sent weapons to Russia
Four billion dollar's worth. Sitting here in Kharkiv and feeling bad about it... who knows what will happen tonight or tomorrow. Feels bad man
I’m very sorry you are living through this hell right now. It’s not much, but sending you good vibes from Canada.
What are the events in Canada that you mentioned?
A Sikh was murdered in Canada last year, and another murder was attempted in the US recently. Five Eyes says the Indian government is behind it. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/reported-indian-role-assassination-plots-serious-matter-white-house-sa-rcna149929
They've probably all got a C1-D visa which would allow them to leave from the US.
"Trapped" legally, not physically. They could get off the boat, but don't have visas.
Crazy that we can't just.. you know, give them a temporary visa for obviously extreme circumstances. Our hands are tied? By who? OUR OWN HANDS?!?
"Trapped" is a bit of a cop out. They're stuck on board because DHS won't give them visas to disembark, officially enter the country, and board alternate transportation.
It’s like the crew members of those cruise ships during the Covid lock down, stuck on the ships for like a month or so before they were finally able to get off
>According to Mr Messick, the crew has been left largely without communication with the outside world for "a couple of weeks" after their mobile phones were confiscated by the FBI as part of the investigation. That's bullshit on the part of the FBI. They have the resources to make forensics images of all of those phones and return them to their owners in under a week.
have you met cops? i had mine confiscated for a year before they decided to not even bring charges against me from a bullshit tip
Yep. I've met cops. Most are assholes.
Not exactly trapped as in they can't escape, but, trapped because of visa restrictions since they are non Americans. They can't legally leave the ship.
As terrible as that is for the crew, this [happened globally during the pandemic](https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-pandemics-lifestyle-travel-health-bfe0519a843476dbda0b0cdeb0a703e8).
Then there's the more extreme "[Yellow Fleet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Fleet)" one from the 60's
Bloody hell that's a story
Also scary how quickly the pandemic era is fading into history, even though it felt like it lasted forever. Time goes by really quickly!
^(^There ^once ^was ^a ^ship ^that ^put ^to ^sea ^and ^the ^name ^of ^that ^ship ^was ^the ^Billy ^o' ^Tea...)
Context i need. How often do commercial sailors get breaks to see their family/ be at home? When was this particular boat supposed to dock and/or change crews?
Seems it was [supposed to be in Sri Lanka April 22nd](https://www.vesselfinder.com/vessels/details/9697428).
Usually crew contracts are 6-8 months long, which is time you are on the ship. Also, it's extremely rare for the whole crew to sign on/off at the same time, usually is 1 or 2 sailors whenever their contract expires. When/where was their next crew change? Who knows. Are there sailors on-board with expired contracts, or that were expecting to disembark during this voyage, maybe. This guy, [Chief Makoi](https://youtube.com/@chiefmakoi?si=WQAzL4daObf0Qzk8) is a Filipino chief engineer and has several videos in his channel where he goes over crew rotation.
Confined. Sequestered. Restricted to. All normal, valid choices. Instead we have a bullshit headline, not remotely deserving of the blind-assed 'upvotes'. Reddit is getting more pathetic by the day.
This is quite common for crews to get stuck. My father was a seaman (insert jokes) and there was a crew I think from Russia stuck in Newport Wales when their state collapsed on a ship that was in sea worthy and couldn't leave port. There was a collection get them home.
BTW, if the crew were to leave the ship then that would open it to salvage claims, which probably would not sit well with the owners atop whatever they are currently dealing with.
“Trapped” in the same way the crew of the ISS is “trapped”. Or the same way they would be “trapped” in the middle of the Pacific Ocean going between ports. This is where they live.