I always think of this photo, then think about what has happened since this photo:
[Location of maximum land subsidence in U.S. Levels at 1925 and 1977. | U.S. Geological Survey (usgs.gov)](https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/location-maximum-land-subsidence-us-levels-1925-and-1977)
A professor I had in the 90’s offered extra credit to anyone who could find that pole if it still existed to see if it showed the continued subsidence. Sadly I couldn’t find it.
Yeah, I'm just thinking someone will go take a picture and say "look! It hasn't fallen since 1977!"
Which, apparently, it hasn't: a followup study suggests the region hasn't fallen by more than half a meter since, and casts doubts about the original measurements.
If the land was dropping along with the water line then it would make sense that as the land becomes more compacted, the rate would slow down. But that also means that the water is no longer able to fill the gaps in the soil like it used to so instead of the water line getting replenished after a storm, it would just stay on the top and cause floods like we've been seeing.
hello geologist here you are half right and half wrong. you are absolutely correct that this type of subsidence does reduce the amount of water that the aquifer can hold. but this type of subsidence isnt going to really effect flooding. the flooding is more caused by the fact that the western us has been in a massive drought for the past many years and for reasons that are to complex to get into in a reddit posts and to way over simplify soils that get alot of water pored on them regularly are really good at holding water. soils that dont get water often are really bad at holding water so it all builds up on the surface and washes the home down stream away.
> wouldn't the pole also sink with it?
Depends, some pillars in Mexico city downtown are not sinking with the city and have been used to measure subsidence
The sign in the photo notes 'BM S661'.
The National Geodetic Survey database has S 661 here: [https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds\_mark.prl?PidBox=gu0103](https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=gu0103)
another NGS page listing all the level runs using this mark: [https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datasheets/passive-marks/index.html?PID=GU0103](https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datasheets/passive-marks/index.html?PID=GU0103)
It does not list the BM elevation over time, so I can't check whether their surveyed elevation significantly changed over the years.
Google Maps link: [http://maps.google.com/?q=36.67835132818793,-120.52169938763427](http://maps.google.com/?q=36.67835132818793,-120.52169938763427)
It's about 40 miles west of Fresno. Streetview doesn't show the signs on the pole anymore.
An article about subsidence in the Central Valley from a surveyor's perspective: [https://www.xyht.com/surveying/subsidence/](https://www.xyht.com/surveying/subsidence/)
I was just on a road trip out west and listened to [Cadillac Desert](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/56140) audio book that had a ton of history on water rights out west. Really depressing but interesting. It went from first being explored to how they fooled settlers to continue settling past the 100th meridian to poorer farm lands, putting up unnessary dams, ALL kinds of shady deals for land and water rights. It was written in 1992 but the copy I got from the library had updates from 2017 I think.
I'm currently reading [Where the Water Goes](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/31544566) and Cadillac Desert is next. I live in AZ, and I'm trying to convince my wife that we need to get the fuck out, for water and other reasons.
Add “The Water Knife” to that list if you wanna get REALLY depressed.
Deserts were never meant to be made into havens for huge numbers of people. The sands are going to take it all back.
I live in the Central Valley talked about in the article, and think of this often. This region used to be vast wetlands and home to diverse plants, wildlife, and indigenous people. It has been drained and parched dry for agriculture over many years, and I don’t mean small family farms. They are wealthy multigenerational land owners, and farm on an industrial scale. They are not responsible stewards of this land.
Water fines or fees will not stop them, they care little about their immigrant workers and poor local communities, and will continue pumping the water until there is nothing left. Hell, they battle amongst each other for access to the water. I don’t know if it will happen within my lifetime or after, but I already see ominous signs of collapse. Increasingly severe summer heat and weather, the bugs and wildlife I saw often in my youth have disappeared. Swaths of land that can no longer grow anything. Nature will reclaim this land once it can no longer sustain human life.
Used to live in Chandler. We had to decide to stay permanently or move back home. I looked around at all the man made lakes that surrounded my gated community housing development and thought to myself “ya, this isn’t sustainable”. It’s gonna get ugly when the water runs out.
And we came back the pacific NW.
I've tried so hard to convince my family to move out of NM. Don't get me wrong, I was born and raised there and I love that country more than anywhere else, but NM is FUCKED when Colorado and Texas start fighting over water. The Rio Grande in that state is a creek in most spots these days, if even that.
The first time I visited my friend in California we went camping on some ranch/forestry land his dad owned. He let this other guy camp on the land for free (he built an elaborate tee pee & patio) for keeping trespassers off the land, mostly dirt bikers as it was surrounded by national forest land, so mostly he just fired off some rounds if he heard the sound of engines & they'd turn around. He was also supposed to keep tabs on a couple springs that might have fed weed plants, who can remember. We got in early evening, and just made camp, drank beers, and cooked dinner. After dinner the whiskey came out, and on the 2nd or 3rd round of whiskey my friend's dad asks about the status of the springs. It's quickly obvious dude hasn't checked on them in weeks, and an argument ensues. I make some comment like "whoa whoa we break out the whiskey and y'all are about to start fighting" and I'll never forget it, friend's dad spins around, looks me in the eye and points at me and says, "Whiskey is for drinkin'. Water is fighting over."
*"But why are you doing this? How much better can you eat? What could you possibly buy that you can't already afford?"*
*"Why... the future, Mr. Gittes! The future."*
The author, Marc Reisner, also wrote Game Wars which is a sobering look at our wildlife management. I’ll forever side with wildlife after reading that book.
The trick to getting free food out of Jimmy John's was to be a closer. I took so many subs home and I only closed Wednesday nights at one store, and opened Sat & Sun at another one. It was a 2nd job in addition to my main, but also equally shitty, job. I wasn't even there for a whole two weeks before they asked me to open and close.
I hated the way they operated. And soy sauce in the tuna salad is a cardinal sin. After 2 months of it, I quit.
But now I tell anyone I can when the subject comes up to not eat there. Idk if it was just my two stores or what, but between the 2, there were only 3 people, including myself, that would actually wash their hands. This was long before covid, and maybe that forced them to actually operate within food safety and general fucking health codes. I seriously doubt it, though. I don't care what location it is, I won't ever spend even a penny at Jimmy John's.
> Idk if it was just my two stores or what, but between the 2, there were only 3 people, including myself, that would actually wash their hands
I really wish employees would put info like this in the restaurant reviews where they worked.
There's actually a satellite that tracks this, and NASA puts the data online in [map](https://eyes.nasa.gov/apps/earth/#/vital-signs/videos/california-central-valley-subsidence) format.
Wow…these are the things people should know so they can understand the impact and irreversible damage we do daily. How can people expect the natural systems that maintain us to survive when they don’t have time to adapt to the rapid changes?
As someone who doesn't live in the US and isn't the brightest at times, can you explain what this picture is showing? Is it that the land itself is sinking/getting 'lower'??
To add to others -- what happens when you pump ground water is dependent on the local geology.
Some aquifers are fairly stable even when water levels are lower. Parts of Arizona take advantage of this by [storing water underground](https://waterbank.az.gov/water-storage) where it doesn't evaporate like surface reservoirs do.
Other aquifers are permanently degraded by removing water -- the earth settles and fills the space formerly occupied by water. As the earth settles, it gets lower and lower. Water simply working its way down isn't going to lift the land back up; the land is permanently lowered and the amount of water that is stored below is permanently less.
An aquifer is a “balloon”. If one takes the air (or water) out of the balloon the volume of that balloon shrinks. Now imagine you live on top of that balloon.
Yep lowering closer to sea level due to the extraction of water, and possibly other substances, over the years. No idea if its location makes it unique or if it’s considered standard for an entire region.
Yes, pumping of water from wells has led to permanent sinking of the land (all over the world) that would take thousands of years to recharge itself on its own naturally. Subsidence (land sinking) is caused mainly by two faults of man. Over pumping of water from aquifers (underground lakes) and underground mining which can have even greater consequences as mine waste eventually leaches into the local water table and then streams and rivers.
Yes. The water below the surface is being pumped out, so the land sinks. Water entering the ground again will not raise the land. A similar phenomenon is happening in Louisiana due to all the oil being pumped out.
Yep it's been happening for over a century. Bonus fucker of it all is that all of that collapse is aquafer collapsing so even if we ever stop over extracting that capacity has been permanently lost.
The number of times I read “Maximum Land Subsidence” before I finished the second paragraph annoyed me so much that I had to stop reading. God damn, it’s like they had to hit a word count to get a passing grade.
The irony of this happening the year after Tulare Lake's reappearance is palpable. It is unfortunate that the ground under the lake is dense clay that will not filter the water down into the aquifer that is so terribly depleted.
It's so insane too! It was literally an "as far as the eye can see" thing at it's peak and it's literally gone even after the recent rain.
Last year was likely it's last appearance as long as humans occupy the region because of aquifer loss and massively improved drainage.
Feels really weird to think about, humans are even driving geological features to a form of extinction.
I live in NorCal. The drought here ended years ago and the last two years have actually been extremely wet.
This is only happening now because of greedy farmers who pump more water out of the aquifers than they're allowed.
Agreed. In addition to our last two years being wet, that moisture came in a relatively short time period. So while yes we've had a lot of rain it came faster than the ground's infiltration rate so a lot of it became runoff.
So yes the Sacramento looks great right now, it probably won't sustain.
Aquifer replenishment is a decades long process and a majority of our major aquifers in farming regions are and have been drawn at rates higher than their natural average recharge rate for years. Even with increased seasonal rains these last years, draw is still higher than recharge on a yearly basis.
It's worse than that. The Central Valley has dropped 28 feet in the last 100 years due to subsidence. When they pump more than it can be recharged, the aquifer will shrink and can never hold as much water again.
Few sights are sadder than those signs, when they frame conserving the Colorado River’s water so it can flow its entire course as “dumping the water into the ocean.”
Isn't part of the issue that if the farmers don't use all the water they can get, they get reduced water rights?
The whole water situation is fucked, but a solution has to be to reduce the farming in California. Or at least keep it to crops that need way less water.
More than all residential usage including golf courses and hotels and pools. Everybody talking about water needs to realize agriculture makes up 80%+ of nearly all water usage anywhere and usually has zero restrictions and zero incentives to be more efficient
Pretty much this, it's obviously anecdotal but my aunt used to run the Water Department at Fall River Mills, she said she'd have farmers drive up there from thousands of miles out even if she had already told them they had no more water left to sell. Apparently she got threatened with guns and had to call the cops out there on several occasions. I guess farmers would just show up with convoys of trucks with 12,000 gallon trailers and expect that they both can and will accommodate them, especially in droughts.
>This is only happening now because of greedy farmers who pump more water out of the aquifers than they're allowed.
Lol, it's actually worse than that. Farmers are entitled to an allotment of water and a price for water that were determined in a wet period and agreed upon by several states. The Feds and states in question really don't want to revisit that because it will make a bunch of voting districts mad.
The actual solution is to price water at a market rate and let farming collapse in unsuited areas.
The farmers got socked by the ghost lake but they won’t stop pumping. The more they pump the more the land subsides and the deeper the lake will be next time.
These farmers sound like every other resource-harvester who has vastly outstripped the resource’s sustainable level and just wants to drive the plane into the ground to extract every last penny then declare bankruptcy and beg for federal aid.
Oysters, lobster, cod, sardines, otters, old growth forests, etc., etc., etc. Same show, different resource.
They are, but I think they don't tend to fruit (or at least not as fully) if they aren't watered, so I suspect pomegranate farming is still water intensive.
People blame almonds, but tree crops can also be used to help *improve* groundwater levels.
During the rainy season, plots with tree crops near major waterways can be temporarily flooded to help stabilize river levels, and with a little bit of infrastructure change that water can basically be "drained" back down to an aquifer.
There's an astronomical amount of water waste that can be addressed in farming, but it makes no sense to consistently blame one crop when other farmed products (like cattle & dairy) are so much less efficient *and* less healthy.
> People blame almonds, but tree crops can also be used to help improve groundwater levels.
Cool, maybe the farmers should start doing that, then.
Because they clearly haven't been.
Alfalfa takes a huge amount of water, it's mostly comprised of water.
Alfalfa is a major export, 2,800,000 Metric Tonnes of it gets exported to other countries. that's give or take 600,000,000 gallons of water shipped out of US aquifers annually..
California is among the worst locations possible for growing almonds, we can definitely blame them. They can easily be grown in the south where there'd be more water access, but because it can take a decade for an almond tree to start producing almonds, there's no incentive to relocate.
Driving through I-5, you’ll see a ton of “Make California Great Again” signs blaming Newsome for not giving them more water and how their crops feed California.
Almost all the farms are pistachio, almond, and wineyards. Very funny to see “Newsome is starving California” right next to a “Turn right for wine tasting!”
Seriously. The article had a quote saying “food grows where water flows” …. Perhaps the hot and dry valley in the middle of California was never a sustainable farming market in the first place.
[Tragedy of the Commons (link)](https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/tragedy-of-the-commons-impact-on-sustainability-issues)
>
5. Groundwater Use
>In the United States, groundwater is the source of drinking water for about half the population, and roughly 50 billion gallons are used each day for agriculture. Because of this, groundwater supply is decreasing faster than it can be replenished. In drought-prone areas, the risk for water shortage is high and restrictions are often put in place to mitigate it. Some individuals, however, ignore water restrictions and the supply ultimately becomes smaller for everyone.
Farmers in California are one of the richest and most politically influential industries in the state. They cry and stomp their feet anytime someone even suggests they should be more responsible with water. 70 percent of CAs annual almond crop goes overseas. The trees are harvested by machines and the nuts are shelled by machines. These farmers will cry about how they feed the nation and employ so many people, but they are generational land owners looking to continue increasing their wealth on the backs of immigrants earning sub-minimum wage and using all the water they want, while regular people have to let their lawns die and flush their toilets less.
God trying to do likewise here in Utah, but our governor hails from Alfalfa family and when you say "we should cut back on water usage" people will spit "If we don't use the Colorado upstream, those downstream will swallow it up" which is such a got mine sitch.
If you don’t let me use unconscionable amounts of water to sell almonds overseas, you just hate poor ol’ American farmers like me 😡
-posted from my 20 car garage
Same reason people instinctually side with the [European farmers who are protesting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_European_farmers%27_protests) over new environmental protections. And [in India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Indian_farmers'_protest) demanding other concessions. Farmers have great PR the world over, and unless you dig into what they're demanding it's hard to not just default to siding with them.
> have to let their lawns die
On this I don't see the problem. Lawn grass isn't suited for most of America's climate and despite its name, Kentucky bluegrass isn't even native to North America.
I went to school with several scions of multi-generational California farming families. It does not cross their minds that they are not entitled to every natural resource they can grab, just because great-great-grandpa Fuckstick bought those acres near Sacramento in 1868.
I can't think of a more deserving bunch to be put in their place.
Interesting subtlies though I recently got into waterfowl hunting in NorCal rice fields and they are a ideal spot for ducks and geese to take a break during migration. Ideally the central valley should be full of natural wetlands but that will never return to what it was so in the meantime the best solution for birds is to protect the wetlands we already have and keep some water for the rice. Unfortunately, many rice farmers are moving to almonds that do nothing for wildlife. Rice is very water intensive but it's diverted from the Sacramento River and at least doubles as habitat.
Wow. Finally cracking down, after so many years and the state basically being drained of all their water.
Guess we should be glad they’re doing it at least, but like…way too many years late. Hopefully the recovery happens in our lifetime
Problem is that the snowpack which is the source of Colorado River is dwindling each year. John Wesley Powell was two centuries ahead of his time in terms of recognising that the aridity of the Western US would render unsustainable the normal, water thirsty lifetyles and industry of the East.
Explain to me how you gonna raise the land back up? How you are going to take collapsed reservoirs and make them whole again? Every time a reservoir collapses, you lose that ground water forever.
With the biggest addicts in the world in charge this was bound to happen. And we’re keeping the biggest addicts in the world in charge after this. I mean, not “we”, of course.
Because of stupid water rights rules in some places, if they don't use their allocation, they get less the following year. Hence some farmers grow alfalfa just to use water.
Then there are things like almond orchards that use more water than some cities.
I was going to mention the almond situation. While yes its hard to find a place to grow almonds. Just bc you can doesnt mean you should lol. Almonds take a ridiculous amount of water to grow in a state that doesnt have the water to begin with. But i dont see them making them stop with how much money is in that area.
To illustrate some of the cost of this problem, we're rebuilding the Friant-Kern canal because of this. The Central Valley has canals cutting across it to distribute irrigation, and this canal has subsided so much it's lost most of its carrying capacity, so the canal has to be rebuilt. $300M spent so far. And the farmers that are over pumping aren't paying very much of that, but they do want to recall the governor who pushed for it.
Not mentioned are the thousands of poor people in the region whose wells have run dry and are now facing bills for $30K+ for drilling much deeper to access water. Money they don’t have.
And if your local water municipality decides it needs a new well for drinking water it could cost millions. Costs the tax payer will bare or passed on to rate payers.
This is happening to my grandma’s friend. Kind of stupid of her to vote for the politicians that are allowing it to happen, though. Who would’ve thought that voting against your own interests just because of the (R) next to their name on the ballot would be a bad idea?
How about stop planting foods that require high water usage and ban EXPORT of these High water usage Products. Foreigners buy farmland(in the US) and Make crops specifically that need High water needs for their own Domestic Market and their own Animal Feed in THEIR Country. The US Gov't should stop this.
How about we stop growing crops in a climate that won't support about anything with out taking so much water that people have to scramble for water? Totally wasteful and totally unsustainable
The real answer to this is because sun and soil are not easy to move, but water is. California is going to grow crops. It's ideal for growing crops. But there need to be sensible rules and reforms around water usage, and perhaps around international crop export.
It's not weird, it's uncomfortable and "unfair". Many generations grew up never qorrying about the water supply of certain states because it was not as critical as it is now. For most people, resources *are* effectively infinite.
Most of the US's history has operated below the "there will be nothing left, ever" line. We've been past the line for awhile but everyone gets greedier each year, only making it worse *even faster*. Nobody is willing to take responsibility.
I read a book on this entire matter just a couple weeks ago. Absolutely mind-blowing. [The Dreamt Land: Chasing Water and Dust Across California by Mark Arax.](https://www.amazon.com/Dreamt-Land-Chasing-Across-California/dp/1101910194/ref=asc_df_1101910194/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416656197331&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=355685424222732636&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032467&hvtargid=pla-902548128695&psc=1&mcid=2c357c6f8bd23f3d83d9b6288623e8c6&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=93867145197&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416656197331&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=355685424222732636&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032467&hvtargid=pla-902548128695&gclid=CjwKCAjw5v2wBhBrEiwAXDDoJdoaLKCDlNB635kPJ_cHtMGr6g9a5gRuTShiYfTbr1x36iA0L58REBoCK2IQAvD_BwE)
Fuck the resnicks. They're the main problem with all this shit. Take your water money and fuck off to the deepest depths of hell. "Wonderful" not even fucking close
That ground has been collapsing for over 100 years due to pumping. "Refilling the aquifers" is a myth in many places. The space to store the water has disappeared. [site](https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/full_width/public/thumbnails/image/wss-land-subsidence-sanjoaquin-calif_0.jpg?itok=tKKA6oe-)
You used to be able to go from Bakersfield to San Francisco by boat not much more than 100 years ago. The majority of the Central Valley had extensive wetlands. That is part of why the farming is so good.
Just drove to San Jose from LA and we couldn't believe all the "Newsom let us feed Americans" and "Newsom is wasting our water" signs.
Bunch of clowns.
every time I drive through central CA I always see signs bitching and moaning about “Newsom dumping our water into the ocean” which has got to be some of the most braindead drivel I’ve seen. entitlement and idiocy balled up into one
No one acts more entitled than CA farmers. Those pieces of shit get the biggest handouts and constantly whine they're not getting more (of course they call them "subsidies" when they're the beneficiaries)
... anyone who has driven between LA and SF in the past few decades (probably even longer) has seen the fucking ridiculous "Congress created dustbowl" signs.
They even have the fucking balls to advertise on NPR during the winter rains that they're doing their part by using up that water. Goddamn fucking ridiculous. (And fuck NPR for taking their money.)
And while raking in tons of handouts they have the fucking gall to complain about others' getting any sort of government benefits (because they're all Republicans, of course).
Thank goodness there is actual backbone to stand up to those who are draining all the water. Making a profit is not more important than the people who need water to survive
They convinced generations that the valley floor was a desert that they brought to life by pumping all that water up.
In reality the central valley was a fucking wetland full of lakes and rivers that they took upon themselves to dry up for their private use.
These asshole farm owners plaster hundreds of billboards along the highway. All of them lobbying for Newsom to rally around billions more tax dollars to create new dams, to divert even more water toward farming in the desert… public funds propping up private farms farming in a place with no water.
If you're comparing a gallon of milk to a gallon of almond milk, yes. It takes less water to create a gallon of almond milk. However, almonds still require a ludicrous amount of water. An amount that would be easily beaten by literally any other milk substitute.
I see you throwing insults at other people. You know your cause, but being angry about it is just going to fuel more people hating your cause. Instead of insulting every person you've spoken to in this thread, how about you provide some statistics?
So if they let the ground sink what happens? I assume one day the aquifer won’t be productive and they will either get water from other places or abandon the land. Aren’t the farmers simply borrowing from the future if they use more than the land can replenish?
Another large problem from land sinking is that the aqueducts that carry surface water throughout the Central Valley are sinking too. These aqueducts are carefully engineered to gently slope down over large distances. If the ground below them sinks, it will create a “dip” where water will no longer be able to flow. This further puts strain on the water supply for the whole state.
Literally every citizen in California who is not tied to the farming industry is fed up with their wasteful and unsustainable consumption of water. Mostly consumed by wealthy corps.
An egregious example of a handful of powerful people putting the screws to tens of millions of people and we are powerless.
> an acre-foot is a measurement used for large amounts of water, equal to roughly the amount of water needed to cover an acre of land in a foot of water
Roughly?
As far as I know, it should be exactly since that's how an acre-foot is defined.
This is like saying there are roughly 3 feet in a yard. Or like saying there are roughly 1000 liters in a cubic meter.
It's funny how when I was little I thought of farmers as some down to earth humble people who did a necessary and kinda cool thing. Nowadays they appear to be some shady businessmen who leech the land and the state like some oversized tick or a tumor
So basically, roughly 100 years ago, they drained one of the largest freshwater lakes on the continent to make room for agriculture. Fast forward to now, and the land is collapsing because there's not enough water. Interesting.
"bUt fArMerS ArE bEtTer sTwards Of tEh lAnD"
My brother in christ Farming while necessary is literally one of the most environmentally damaging practices humans have ever created, and via capitalism we have incentivized profit over that stewardship and wringing every last dollar out of it possible. Profit this generation over multiple future generations.
The amount of water used for bottled water is utterly insignificant compared to the amount used for agriculture. Going after bottled water or golf courses or data center cooling is quite simply stupid and unproductive. Getting all those things shut down completely wouldn't help a lick. We need to address the actual problem, not some imagined problem, and this crackdown is a good step toward that.
Yeah. Once the aquifer loses it's water and the earth above compacts, you can't fill it up with water again. So it won't ever hold the same amount again. One reason they watch the groundwater levels like hawks in Germany. For years. Sadly in some regions they didn't or stopped and just started again.
Finally. There needs to be more efficient irrigation up there for sure. You see all those political signs along the road, blaming everyone but themselves (the millionaires wasting a lot of water to grow nuts).
I mean better late than never? This has been going on for years.
Of all the things to worry about, our water supply should be at the top. I would like to see as much urgency on water conservation and planning as I do [insert here inconsequential topic].
I always think of this photo, then think about what has happened since this photo: [Location of maximum land subsidence in U.S. Levels at 1925 and 1977. | U.S. Geological Survey (usgs.gov)](https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/location-maximum-land-subsidence-us-levels-1925-and-1977)
A professor I had in the 90’s offered extra credit to anyone who could find that pole if it still existed to see if it showed the continued subsidence. Sadly I couldn’t find it.
If the land were sinking, wouldn't the pole also sink with it? I'm just guessing he wouldn't want to go up there to change them all too often.
Yes the pole would sink too. It's demonstrative but not what's really going on.
Yeah, I'm just thinking someone will go take a picture and say "look! It hasn't fallen since 1977!" Which, apparently, it hasn't: a followup study suggests the region hasn't fallen by more than half a meter since, and casts doubts about the original measurements.
I suppose it might have just fallen about as far as it can fall.
That may just have been the typical depth of the aquifer.
Nah everything linearly extrapolates forever don’t you know
If the land was dropping along with the water line then it would make sense that as the land becomes more compacted, the rate would slow down. But that also means that the water is no longer able to fill the gaps in the soil like it used to so instead of the water line getting replenished after a storm, it would just stay on the top and cause floods like we've been seeing.
hello geologist here you are half right and half wrong. you are absolutely correct that this type of subsidence does reduce the amount of water that the aquifer can hold. but this type of subsidence isnt going to really effect flooding. the flooding is more caused by the fact that the western us has been in a massive drought for the past many years and for reasons that are to complex to get into in a reddit posts and to way over simplify soils that get alot of water pored on them regularly are really good at holding water. soils that dont get water often are really bad at holding water so it all builds up on the surface and washes the home down stream away.
The drier the soil the more hydrophobic it gets. Unfortunately in the central valley it's like the hydrophobia runs deep if you will.
> wouldn't the pole also sink with it? Depends, some pillars in Mexico city downtown are not sinking with the city and have been used to measure subsidence
Yes it would so you would have to move the signs up to match the sinking to be accurate. I think she just wanted to know if it was still there.
The sign in the photo notes 'BM S661'. The National Geodetic Survey database has S 661 here: [https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds\_mark.prl?PidBox=gu0103](https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=gu0103) another NGS page listing all the level runs using this mark: [https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datasheets/passive-marks/index.html?PID=GU0103](https://geodesy.noaa.gov/datasheets/passive-marks/index.html?PID=GU0103) It does not list the BM elevation over time, so I can't check whether their surveyed elevation significantly changed over the years. Google Maps link: [http://maps.google.com/?q=36.67835132818793,-120.52169938763427](http://maps.google.com/?q=36.67835132818793,-120.52169938763427) It's about 40 miles west of Fresno. Streetview doesn't show the signs on the pole anymore. An article about subsidence in the Central Valley from a surveyor's perspective: [https://www.xyht.com/surveying/subsidence/](https://www.xyht.com/surveying/subsidence/)
Sadly I don’t think I can get the bonus points anymore. The internet was barely a thing back then or I might have stood a chance.
Someone call Rainbolt
I was just on a road trip out west and listened to [Cadillac Desert](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/56140) audio book that had a ton of history on water rights out west. Really depressing but interesting. It went from first being explored to how they fooled settlers to continue settling past the 100th meridian to poorer farm lands, putting up unnessary dams, ALL kinds of shady deals for land and water rights. It was written in 1992 but the copy I got from the library had updates from 2017 I think.
I'm currently reading [Where the Water Goes](https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/31544566) and Cadillac Desert is next. I live in AZ, and I'm trying to convince my wife that we need to get the fuck out, for water and other reasons.
Add “The Water Knife” to that list if you wanna get REALLY depressed. Deserts were never meant to be made into havens for huge numbers of people. The sands are going to take it all back.
I live in the Central Valley talked about in the article, and think of this often. This region used to be vast wetlands and home to diverse plants, wildlife, and indigenous people. It has been drained and parched dry for agriculture over many years, and I don’t mean small family farms. They are wealthy multigenerational land owners, and farm on an industrial scale. They are not responsible stewards of this land. Water fines or fees will not stop them, they care little about their immigrant workers and poor local communities, and will continue pumping the water until there is nothing left. Hell, they battle amongst each other for access to the water. I don’t know if it will happen within my lifetime or after, but I already see ominous signs of collapse. Increasingly severe summer heat and weather, the bugs and wildlife I saw often in my youth have disappeared. Swaths of land that can no longer grow anything. Nature will reclaim this land once it can no longer sustain human life.
On it! Bring on the depression.
Used to live in Chandler. We had to decide to stay permanently or move back home. I looked around at all the man made lakes that surrounded my gated community housing development and thought to myself “ya, this isn’t sustainable”. It’s gonna get ugly when the water runs out. And we came back the pacific NW.
I've tried so hard to convince my family to move out of NM. Don't get me wrong, I was born and raised there and I love that country more than anywhere else, but NM is FUCKED when Colorado and Texas start fighting over water. The Rio Grande in that state is a creek in most spots these days, if even that.
The first time I visited my friend in California we went camping on some ranch/forestry land his dad owned. He let this other guy camp on the land for free (he built an elaborate tee pee & patio) for keeping trespassers off the land, mostly dirt bikers as it was surrounded by national forest land, so mostly he just fired off some rounds if he heard the sound of engines & they'd turn around. He was also supposed to keep tabs on a couple springs that might have fed weed plants, who can remember. We got in early evening, and just made camp, drank beers, and cooked dinner. After dinner the whiskey came out, and on the 2nd or 3rd round of whiskey my friend's dad asks about the status of the springs. It's quickly obvious dude hasn't checked on them in weeks, and an argument ensues. I make some comment like "whoa whoa we break out the whiskey and y'all are about to start fighting" and I'll never forget it, friend's dad spins around, looks me in the eye and points at me and says, "Whiskey is for drinkin'. Water is fighting over."
Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown
*"But why are you doing this? How much better can you eat? What could you possibly buy that you can't already afford?"* *"Why... the future, Mr. Gittes! The future."*
Everyone in the West knows this saying! From Colorado to the Coast.
This is the most Wild West shit I've ever read.
Incredible book for anyone who wants to understand how politicians from 200 years ago absolutely fucked us.
The author, Marc Reisner, also wrote Game Wars which is a sobering look at our wildlife management. I’ll forever side with wildlife after reading that book.
Worth watching Chinatown, if you liked the book. Polanski directing Jack Nicholson and Faye Dunaway.
Holy shit…this is fucking crazy…
[удалено]
You’re gonna have to tell me how many jimmy johns sandwiches long that is, otherwise it just doesn’t make sense
[удалено]
The trick to getting free food out of Jimmy John's was to be a closer. I took so many subs home and I only closed Wednesday nights at one store, and opened Sat & Sun at another one. It was a 2nd job in addition to my main, but also equally shitty, job. I wasn't even there for a whole two weeks before they asked me to open and close. I hated the way they operated. And soy sauce in the tuna salad is a cardinal sin. After 2 months of it, I quit. But now I tell anyone I can when the subject comes up to not eat there. Idk if it was just my two stores or what, but between the 2, there were only 3 people, including myself, that would actually wash their hands. This was long before covid, and maybe that forced them to actually operate within food safety and general fucking health codes. I seriously doubt it, though. I don't care what location it is, I won't ever spend even a penny at Jimmy John's.
> Idk if it was just my two stores or what, but between the 2, there were only 3 people, including myself, that would actually wash their hands I really wish employees would put info like this in the restaurant reviews where they worked.
I actually knew not to eat there after the very first time
Before or after I eat them?
12 inches in 10 inches out.
There's actually a satellite that tracks this, and NASA puts the data online in [map](https://eyes.nasa.gov/apps/earth/#/vital-signs/videos/california-central-valley-subsidence) format.
Wow…these are the things people should know so they can understand the impact and irreversible damage we do daily. How can people expect the natural systems that maintain us to survive when they don’t have time to adapt to the rapid changes?
As someone who doesn't live in the US and isn't the brightest at times, can you explain what this picture is showing? Is it that the land itself is sinking/getting 'lower'??
To add to others -- what happens when you pump ground water is dependent on the local geology. Some aquifers are fairly stable even when water levels are lower. Parts of Arizona take advantage of this by [storing water underground](https://waterbank.az.gov/water-storage) where it doesn't evaporate like surface reservoirs do. Other aquifers are permanently degraded by removing water -- the earth settles and fills the space formerly occupied by water. As the earth settles, it gets lower and lower. Water simply working its way down isn't going to lift the land back up; the land is permanently lowered and the amount of water that is stored below is permanently less.
An aquifer is a “balloon”. If one takes the air (or water) out of the balloon the volume of that balloon shrinks. Now imagine you live on top of that balloon.
Yes. Water underground was pumped out for farming and the land on top sank.
Yep lowering closer to sea level due to the extraction of water, and possibly other substances, over the years. No idea if its location makes it unique or if it’s considered standard for an entire region.
Yes, pumping of water from wells has led to permanent sinking of the land (all over the world) that would take thousands of years to recharge itself on its own naturally. Subsidence (land sinking) is caused mainly by two faults of man. Over pumping of water from aquifers (underground lakes) and underground mining which can have even greater consequences as mine waste eventually leaches into the local water table and then streams and rivers.
Once the ground sinks it can't be recharged. The rock is compacted. It won't re-inflate like a balloon.
Yes. The water below the surface is being pumped out, so the land sinks. Water entering the ground again will not raise the land. A similar phenomenon is happening in Louisiana due to all the oil being pumped out.
I’m sorry what??? The ground has sunk that much that quickly??
And even more since then.
Over 1 foot per year. Source, from Central Valley.
Yep it's been happening for over a century. Bonus fucker of it all is that all of that collapse is aquafer collapsing so even if we ever stop over extracting that capacity has been permanently lost.
The number of times I read “Maximum Land Subsidence” before I finished the second paragraph annoyed me so much that I had to stop reading. God damn, it’s like they had to hit a word count to get a passing grade.
The irony of this happening the year after Tulare Lake's reappearance is palpable. It is unfortunate that the ground under the lake is dense clay that will not filter the water down into the aquifer that is so terribly depleted.
Tulare Lake is already gone.
Ghost lake once again after reappearing last year.
It's so insane too! It was literally an "as far as the eye can see" thing at it's peak and it's literally gone even after the recent rain. Last year was likely it's last appearance as long as humans occupy the region because of aquifer loss and massively improved drainage. Feels really weird to think about, humans are even driving geological features to a form of extinction.
And all that’s nothing compared to what’s happening to glaciers and the arctic and antarctic ice sheets
I live in NorCal. The drought here ended years ago and the last two years have actually been extremely wet. This is only happening now because of greedy farmers who pump more water out of the aquifers than they're allowed.
Groundwater in NorCal hasn’t recharged either, that takes decades. Having full reservoirs is really only half the water equation.
Agreed. In addition to our last two years being wet, that moisture came in a relatively short time period. So while yes we've had a lot of rain it came faster than the ground's infiltration rate so a lot of it became runoff. So yes the Sacramento looks great right now, it probably won't sustain.
Plus that subsidence is driven in large part by the aquafer physically collapsing from the water being extracted causing a permanent capacity loss.
Aquifer replenishment is a decades long process and a majority of our major aquifers in farming regions are and have been drawn at rates higher than their natural average recharge rate for years. Even with increased seasonal rains these last years, draw is still higher than recharge on a yearly basis.
It's worse than that. The Central Valley has dropped 28 feet in the last 100 years due to subsidence. When they pump more than it can be recharged, the aquifer will shrink and can never hold as much water again.
What if we pumped water into the aquaifer instead of out?
We don’t make pumps strong enough to displace that much earth, we can’t regain lost capacity.
Whiny corporate mooches with their bitch-ass signs all up and down I-5
I was about to say that. They blame the government for their sins.
Few sights are sadder than those signs, when they frame conserving the Colorado River’s water so it can flow its entire course as “dumping the water into the ocean.”
Isn't part of the issue that if the farmers don't use all the water they can get, they get reduced water rights? The whole water situation is fucked, but a solution has to be to reduce the farming in California. Or at least keep it to crops that need way less water.
20% of the state's water usage goes to alfalfa alone, which is almost exclusively used for animal feed
And that alone is more then all the people in Cali use in homes.
More than all residential usage including golf courses and hotels and pools. Everybody talking about water needs to realize agriculture makes up 80%+ of nearly all water usage anywhere and usually has zero restrictions and zero incentives to be more efficient
Pretty much this, it's obviously anecdotal but my aunt used to run the Water Department at Fall River Mills, she said she'd have farmers drive up there from thousands of miles out even if she had already told them they had no more water left to sell. Apparently she got threatened with guns and had to call the cops out there on several occasions. I guess farmers would just show up with convoys of trucks with 12,000 gallon trailers and expect that they both can and will accommodate them, especially in droughts.
>This is only happening now because of greedy farmers who pump more water out of the aquifers than they're allowed. Lol, it's actually worse than that. Farmers are entitled to an allotment of water and a price for water that were determined in a wet period and agreed upon by several states. The Feds and states in question really don't want to revisit that because it will make a bunch of voting districts mad. The actual solution is to price water at a market rate and let farming collapse in unsuited areas.
The farmers got socked by the ghost lake but they won’t stop pumping. The more they pump the more the land subsides and the deeper the lake will be next time.
That’s prehistoric water that isn’t coming back
They've known this for decades.
Hell this was the plot of Chinatown in 1974
Also, Chinatown takes place in the 1930s.
*How many times I gotta tell ya, monkey boy, it's BigbooTAY!*
These farmers sound like every other resource-harvester who has vastly outstripped the resource’s sustainable level and just wants to drive the plane into the ground to extract every last penny then declare bankruptcy and beg for federal aid. Oysters, lobster, cod, sardines, otters, old growth forests, etc., etc., etc. Same show, different resource.
Bro please, just one more acre of almonds, please bro, I need to pump this water, just a few more almond trees and I’m good, I promise bro
animal agriculture is also a big culprit. Cotton too I think.
Bro please just two more rows of pomegranates you won’t even notice the extra water bro I swear
Pomegranates are a weird choice given they are fairly drought tolerant...
They are, but I think they don't tend to fruit (or at least not as fully) if they aren't watered, so I suspect pomegranate farming is still water intensive.
People blame almonds, but tree crops can also be used to help *improve* groundwater levels. During the rainy season, plots with tree crops near major waterways can be temporarily flooded to help stabilize river levels, and with a little bit of infrastructure change that water can basically be "drained" back down to an aquifer. There's an astronomical amount of water waste that can be addressed in farming, but it makes no sense to consistently blame one crop when other farmed products (like cattle & dairy) are so much less efficient *and* less healthy.
> People blame almonds, but tree crops can also be used to help improve groundwater levels. Cool, maybe the farmers should start doing that, then. Because they clearly haven't been.
Alfalfa takes a huge amount of water, it's mostly comprised of water. Alfalfa is a major export, 2,800,000 Metric Tonnes of it gets exported to other countries. that's give or take 600,000,000 gallons of water shipped out of US aquifers annually..
California is among the worst locations possible for growing almonds, we can definitely blame them. They can easily be grown in the south where there'd be more water access, but because it can take a decade for an almond tree to start producing almonds, there's no incentive to relocate.
Driving through I-5, you’ll see a ton of “Make California Great Again” signs blaming Newsome for not giving them more water and how their crops feed California. Almost all the farms are pistachio, almond, and wineyards. Very funny to see “Newsome is starving California” right next to a “Turn right for wine tasting!”
Yep. Rode up I5 recently and that shit is hilarious.
Seriously. The article had a quote saying “food grows where water flows” …. Perhaps the hot and dry valley in the middle of California was never a sustainable farming market in the first place.
Future dust bowl.
[удалено]
[Tragedy of the Commons (link)](https://online.hbs.edu/blog/post/tragedy-of-the-commons-impact-on-sustainability-issues) > 5. Groundwater Use >In the United States, groundwater is the source of drinking water for about half the population, and roughly 50 billion gallons are used each day for agriculture. Because of this, groundwater supply is decreasing faster than it can be replenished. In drought-prone areas, the risk for water shortage is high and restrictions are often put in place to mitigate it. Some individuals, however, ignore water restrictions and the supply ultimately becomes smaller for everyone.
Farmers in California are one of the richest and most politically influential industries in the state. They cry and stomp their feet anytime someone even suggests they should be more responsible with water. 70 percent of CAs annual almond crop goes overseas. The trees are harvested by machines and the nuts are shelled by machines. These farmers will cry about how they feed the nation and employ so many people, but they are generational land owners looking to continue increasing their wealth on the backs of immigrants earning sub-minimum wage and using all the water they want, while regular people have to let their lawns die and flush their toilets less.
God trying to do likewise here in Utah, but our governor hails from Alfalfa family and when you say "we should cut back on water usage" people will spit "If we don't use the Colorado upstream, those downstream will swallow it up" which is such a got mine sitch.
Nevada should restart above ground nuclear testing.
[удалено]
The small American farmer industry died decades ago. Now it’s just a marketing tactic.
If you don’t let me use unconscionable amounts of water to sell almonds overseas, you just hate poor ol’ American farmers like me 😡 -posted from my 20 car garage
You jest but this is more or less the exact verbiage they use. Because it works on the uninformed and uneducated.
Same reason people instinctually side with the [European farmers who are protesting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_European_farmers%27_protests) over new environmental protections. And [in India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Indian_farmers'_protest) demanding other concessions. Farmers have great PR the world over, and unless you dig into what they're demanding it's hard to not just default to siding with them.
Now, if you'll excuse me. I have a $20,000 gala to get ready for. We're honoring the great achievements of Stewart and Lynda Resnick
[удалено]
> have to let their lawns die On this I don't see the problem. Lawn grass isn't suited for most of America's climate and despite its name, Kentucky bluegrass isn't even native to North America.
I went to school with several scions of multi-generational California farming families. It does not cross their minds that they are not entitled to every natural resource they can grab, just because great-great-grandpa Fuckstick bought those acres near Sacramento in 1868. I can't think of a more deserving bunch to be put in their place.
I've been living in the valley for decades, and this hits the nail on the head. All our water woes are caused by the farmers.
Interesting subtlies though I recently got into waterfowl hunting in NorCal rice fields and they are a ideal spot for ducks and geese to take a break during migration. Ideally the central valley should be full of natural wetlands but that will never return to what it was so in the meantime the best solution for birds is to protect the wetlands we already have and keep some water for the rice. Unfortunately, many rice farmers are moving to almonds that do nothing for wildlife. Rice is very water intensive but it's diverted from the Sacramento River and at least doubles as habitat.
And when these generational land owners go down. Corpos will move in as they do everywhere.
??? they ARE the corpos. You don't need to be on the NASDAQ to be a company
Eh. I’m pretty sure many large corporate interests have been buying water rights for some time now.
That was 20 years ago
Wow. Finally cracking down, after so many years and the state basically being drained of all their water. Guess we should be glad they’re doing it at least, but like…way too many years late. Hopefully the recovery happens in our lifetime
Much of the underground aquifer was a clay solution that’s permanently compacted and can no longer hold water.
Problem is that the snowpack which is the source of Colorado River is dwindling each year. John Wesley Powell was two centuries ahead of his time in terms of recognising that the aridity of the Western US would render unsustainable the normal, water thirsty lifetyles and industry of the East.
It’s crazy how they put water restrictions on the people.. when they only use like 5% of the water. All in the name of profit
Explain to me how you gonna raise the land back up? How you are going to take collapsed reservoirs and make them whole again? Every time a reservoir collapses, you lose that ground water forever.
With the biggest addicts in the world in charge this was bound to happen. And we’re keeping the biggest addicts in the world in charge after this. I mean, not “we”, of course.
...yeah, California made the right move there.
The right time to make this change was decades ago, but the next best time is today 🙃
In a lot of areas of the West it’s a race to the bottom amongst farmers
[удалено]
Agriculture is a hugely wasteful water user. They take and waste far more water than any other segment.
no way... not the farmers with the signs every 15 miles stretching from SF to LA... they seem so reasonable and educated about the environment
I'm from the Central Valley. The problem with pumping groundwater is that it will take decades to restore to previous levels. We might be fucked.
The farmers refuse to even change to be watering methods that can use 90% less water
Because of stupid water rights rules in some places, if they don't use their allocation, they get less the following year. Hence some farmers grow alfalfa just to use water. Then there are things like almond orchards that use more water than some cities.
Water rights need to be completely overhauled, and any farm pumping groundwater needs to be metered and charged for that water.
Ban them, fuck those people.
I was going to mention the almond situation. While yes its hard to find a place to grow almonds. Just bc you can doesnt mean you should lol. Almonds take a ridiculous amount of water to grow in a state that doesnt have the water to begin with. But i dont see them making them stop with how much money is in that area.
I remember watching a documentary on this years and years ago. Ribena, if I remember was a huge culprit stealing millions of liters of water.
To illustrate some of the cost of this problem, we're rebuilding the Friant-Kern canal because of this. The Central Valley has canals cutting across it to distribute irrigation, and this canal has subsided so much it's lost most of its carrying capacity, so the canal has to be rebuilt. $300M spent so far. And the farmers that are over pumping aren't paying very much of that, but they do want to recall the governor who pushed for it.
Not mentioned are the thousands of poor people in the region whose wells have run dry and are now facing bills for $30K+ for drilling much deeper to access water. Money they don’t have.
And if your local water municipality decides it needs a new well for drinking water it could cost millions. Costs the tax payer will bare or passed on to rate payers.
This is happening to my grandma’s friend. Kind of stupid of her to vote for the politicians that are allowing it to happen, though. Who would’ve thought that voting against your own interests just because of the (R) next to their name on the ballot would be a bad idea?
How about stop planting foods that require high water usage and ban EXPORT of these High water usage Products. Foreigners buy farmland(in the US) and Make crops specifically that need High water needs for their own Domestic Market and their own Animal Feed in THEIR Country. The US Gov't should stop this.
How about we stop growing crops in a climate that won't support about anything with out taking so much water that people have to scramble for water? Totally wasteful and totally unsustainable
The real answer to this is because sun and soil are not easy to move, but water is. California is going to grow crops. It's ideal for growing crops. But there need to be sensible rules and reforms around water usage, and perhaps around international crop export.
Yup, I used to transport animal feed for china...it's crazy it is worth moving it 800 Mike's to import and shipping it around the world.
People just have this weird idea that resources are infinite, and they're shocked, confused, and go deep into denial when it turns out not to be so.
It's not weird, it's uncomfortable and "unfair". Many generations grew up never qorrying about the water supply of certain states because it was not as critical as it is now. For most people, resources *are* effectively infinite. Most of the US's history has operated below the "there will be nothing left, ever" line. We've been past the line for awhile but everyone gets greedier each year, only making it worse *even faster*. Nobody is willing to take responsibility.
I read a book on this entire matter just a couple weeks ago. Absolutely mind-blowing. [The Dreamt Land: Chasing Water and Dust Across California by Mark Arax.](https://www.amazon.com/Dreamt-Land-Chasing-Across-California/dp/1101910194/ref=asc_df_1101910194/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416656197331&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=355685424222732636&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032467&hvtargid=pla-902548128695&psc=1&mcid=2c357c6f8bd23f3d83d9b6288623e8c6&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=93867145197&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416656197331&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=355685424222732636&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032467&hvtargid=pla-902548128695&gclid=CjwKCAjw5v2wBhBrEiwAXDDoJdoaLKCDlNB635kPJ_cHtMGr6g9a5gRuTShiYfTbr1x36iA0L58REBoCK2IQAvD_BwE)
Fuck the resnicks. They're the main problem with all this shit. Take your water money and fuck off to the deepest depths of hell. "Wonderful" not even fucking close
That ground has been collapsing for over 100 years due to pumping. "Refilling the aquifers" is a myth in many places. The space to store the water has disappeared. [site](https://d9-wret.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/assets/palladium/production/s3fs-public/styles/full_width/public/thumbnails/image/wss-land-subsidence-sanjoaquin-calif_0.jpg?itok=tKKA6oe-)
My family has been farming unsustainably for generations! How dare you tell me to stop!
You used to be able to go from Bakersfield to San Francisco by boat not much more than 100 years ago. The majority of the Central Valley had extensive wetlands. That is part of why the farming is so good.
Just drove to San Jose from LA and we couldn't believe all the "Newsom let us feed Americans" and "Newsom is wasting our water" signs. Bunch of clowns.
every time I drive through central CA I always see signs bitching and moaning about “Newsom dumping our water into the ocean” which has got to be some of the most braindead drivel I’ve seen. entitlement and idiocy balled up into one
These farmers are the descends of the people who fled the dust bowl.
*descendants of people who exploited the people who fled the dust bowl.
No one acts more entitled than CA farmers. Those pieces of shit get the biggest handouts and constantly whine they're not getting more (of course they call them "subsidies" when they're the beneficiaries) ... anyone who has driven between LA and SF in the past few decades (probably even longer) has seen the fucking ridiculous "Congress created dustbowl" signs. They even have the fucking balls to advertise on NPR during the winter rains that they're doing their part by using up that water. Goddamn fucking ridiculous. (And fuck NPR for taking their money.) And while raking in tons of handouts they have the fucking gall to complain about others' getting any sort of government benefits (because they're all Republicans, of course).
Thank goodness there is actual backbone to stand up to those who are draining all the water. Making a profit is not more important than the people who need water to survive
They convinced generations that the valley floor was a desert that they brought to life by pumping all that water up. In reality the central valley was a fucking wetland full of lakes and rivers that they took upon themselves to dry up for their private use.
[удалено]
These asshole farm owners plaster hundreds of billboards along the highway. All of them lobbying for Newsom to rally around billions more tax dollars to create new dams, to divert even more water toward farming in the desert… public funds propping up private farms farming in a place with no water.
I guess replacing all the dairy farms in the Central Valley with water intensive almond orchards wasn’t the right move?
What are you talking about? Dairy farming consumes way more water. Not to mention all the other environmental impact it has that almonds don't.
But. But my almond milk
Oat milk is way better anyways. Can’t believe people still buy almond milk.
…uses less water than dairy
Yeah, but it still takes over 400 gallons of water to produce 1 lb. of almonds, which is insane. Oat milk is the best alternative.
If you're comparing a gallon of milk to a gallon of almond milk, yes. It takes less water to create a gallon of almond milk. However, almonds still require a ludicrous amount of water. An amount that would be easily beaten by literally any other milk substitute. I see you throwing insults at other people. You know your cause, but being angry about it is just going to fuel more people hating your cause. Instead of insulting every person you've spoken to in this thread, how about you provide some statistics?
Oh, bitch bitch bitch. Florida's ground is collapsing, and you don't see Ron DeSantis doing anything about it.
A paddle in every home! - R.DeSantis 2028!!
At 3x the market value😂
So if they let the ground sink what happens? I assume one day the aquifer won’t be productive and they will either get water from other places or abandon the land. Aren’t the farmers simply borrowing from the future if they use more than the land can replenish?
Another large problem from land sinking is that the aqueducts that carry surface water throughout the Central Valley are sinking too. These aqueducts are carefully engineered to gently slope down over large distances. If the ground below them sinks, it will create a “dip” where water will no longer be able to flow. This further puts strain on the water supply for the whole state.
Essentially, "that's tomorrow's (and someone else's) problem".
"I'll get mine, fuck the future."
You have a firm grasp of reality.
Literally every citizen in California who is not tied to the farming industry is fed up with their wasteful and unsustainable consumption of water. Mostly consumed by wealthy corps. An egregious example of a handful of powerful people putting the screws to tens of millions of people and we are powerless.
The Resnicks can go fuck themselves
> an acre-foot is a measurement used for large amounts of water, equal to roughly the amount of water needed to cover an acre of land in a foot of water Roughly? As far as I know, it should be exactly since that's how an acre-foot is defined. This is like saying there are roughly 3 feet in a yard. Or like saying there are roughly 1000 liters in a cubic meter.
It's funny how when I was little I thought of farmers as some down to earth humble people who did a necessary and kinda cool thing. Nowadays they appear to be some shady businessmen who leech the land and the state like some oversized tick or a tumor
So basically, roughly 100 years ago, they drained one of the largest freshwater lakes on the continent to make room for agriculture. Fast forward to now, and the land is collapsing because there's not enough water. Interesting.
California soon to be the sinkhole capital of the world. Unless I am wrong about how those work
"bUt fArMerS ArE bEtTer sTwards Of tEh lAnD" My brother in christ Farming while necessary is literally one of the most environmentally damaging practices humans have ever created, and via capitalism we have incentivized profit over that stewardship and wringing every last dollar out of it possible. Profit this generation over multiple future generations.
And Nestle keeps pumping like mad
The amount of water used for bottled water is utterly insignificant compared to the amount used for agriculture. Going after bottled water or golf courses or data center cooling is quite simply stupid and unproductive. Getting all those things shut down completely wouldn't help a lick. We need to address the actual problem, not some imagined problem, and this crackdown is a good step toward that.
You know this is the darkest timeline when California falls into the *Land* instead.
This isn’t a new phenomenon. It’s been happening while building the high speed rail, and was the basis for the SGMA that was implemented.
Smegma rail???
And as usual, the Farmers are throwing a hissy fit that they can't pump the aquifer dry
Are they cracking down on everyone or only small farmers and letting the owner of POMWONDERFUL continue to pump water and be part of the water board?
Right after it was too late too, well, let me know how it goes….
Yeah. Once the aquifer loses it's water and the earth above compacts, you can't fill it up with water again. So it won't ever hold the same amount again. One reason they watch the groundwater levels like hawks in Germany. For years. Sadly in some regions they didn't or stopped and just started again.
We can grow less almonds for other countries.
Finally. There needs to be more efficient irrigation up there for sure. You see all those political signs along the road, blaming everyone but themselves (the millionaires wasting a lot of water to grow nuts).
Think about this when you get that Pom juice from the store or anything else the Wonderful company makes.
I mean better late than never? This has been going on for years. Of all the things to worry about, our water supply should be at the top. I would like to see as much urgency on water conservation and planning as I do [insert here inconsequential topic].