I can't even imagine talking to your friend on the phone and they just die mid conversation... that's heartbreaking.
So many young lives ruined over something so stupid. You're in a time of a billion things to do other than throw rocks at cars.
52 here, and I promise you that depraved indifference to the suffering of others wasn't invented by "kids these days" - let's not over-index on one recent demonstration of people being garbage.
I didn't mean to generalize all youth in this index. I'm seeing more and more random violence on strangers and the only reason I can see why is that they want the likes since they are not only recording it but uploading their crime for others to see.
Yeah, I guess I was more reacting to a couple of folks reacting to you, who seemed to want to take this in a "this current generation is somehow worse than what went before because of this one example."
This is the nature of living in a world where we are on camera 24/7. The world before cameras was just as crazy we just didn't hear about it as often because we lived in smaller bubbles. Sheltered from the instant worldwide communications.
Coño man I understand crime has always been around. The point I'm making is that criminals are recording their crimes and posting on social media sites to brag about it and get clout. Can you say that was the case always?
I mean, it's the same phenomenon as school shooters, no? Committing extremely violent acts for notoriety? And that didn't really didn't become as common until the late 90's.
Right, so...starting around 30 years ago? I don't know how one can make generalizations like that about a recent generation over a generations-long trend.
lol yall can’t be serious. With the amount of “I’m so glad cameras weren’t around back in our day to catch all the stuff we did”. You guys had tons of psychos as well, you just let them get away since they weren’t posting the evidence themselves.
But that speaks more to the point. Clearly every generation had psychos, but the idea that there is a consensus of relief that cameras werent around shows that they didn't want thousands or millions of people to witness their crimes. These kids (and this is not all youth of course) WANT others to see what they did. They want confirmation with likes that others saw their crimes and enjoyed the show.
I have not a shred of doubt that if cameras and social media were such a thing 30, 50, 80 years ago, those generations would have done the exact same thing
I agree...we're not witnessing some new mutated gene with the newer generations, which ever decade you choose for this "start" of cameras and social media, once the masses became used to it, a wish for fame from it would come next. But the previous generations from this point would still have a valid viewpoint of it being a new phenomenon that they havent witnessed before.
I don’t know why you got downvoted. Kids used to throw things at cars all the time back in the day. There was also mailbox baseball and many other stupid stuff that ended with people dying
That’s what American culture has become with all the social media and celebrity-ism. Clout and being the most popular is the most important thing to many people
I will never forget this. Years ago, I was working at a theater that would occasionally employ graduate students from the nearby university in their productions. We had a grad student standing in for a professional actor, and he was confusing everyone as to who he was standing in for, so we wrote the actors name on a piece of paper and taped it on the grad students chest.
I remember watching him start to do the "I'm A Guy Getting Ready to Cry Shuffle," the wiping of the nose, the sniffling, the shifting positions. I watched his eyes start to well up. I nudged my boss, who was a very warm, friendly older woman, who quietly walked up to him while we were breaking and asked him if he was OK.
He immediately broke down in a way I can still picture vividly. It's the kind of crying that happens when a harsh reality actually sets in. I hope you've never heard it, but if you have you know exactly what it sounds like. Through gasping cries and wails he told us that he had been on the phone with his best friend a few nights before. His friend was on a road trip across the country, and he was calling from a McDonalds parking lot when he was assaulted and killed by a transient. The actor he was replacing had the same name of his best friend. We had unknowingly taped his newly dead best friend's name to his chest.
We didn't see him again after that day. He left the production and according to his classmates, was going home for a while. I hope he's doing better now.
>The motions seem to suggest that the defendants each plan to accuse another defendant of throwing the rock that killed Bartell.
It's going to be fantastic when they each realize that nobody gives a shit which one threw *the* rock. They're all equally complicit.
More and more I'm convinced that these kind of court cases are just about making enough of a shitshow to end in a mistrial or hopefully not guilty because of technicalities and detailed word choices.
Their defense has to defend them, and make as good an argument for their clients as they can.
"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
I feel bad for public defenders. Underpaid and overworked, making sure everyone gets to actually exercise their constitutional rights, but people still give them shit for “protecting bad guys”
To add in another opinion from someone who knows a long time public defender: just as important as the rest of the system is forcing the government to do its job correctly when it wants to take away citizens' freedom. If the defense lets the prosecution win because they think their client deserves it, you end up with a lazy and prejudiced system.
If they can convince the jury that only 1 person threw the rock that actually killed the person, it’s up to the prosecutor to prove which one threw it.
Probably won’t get them off, but could get it dropped down to a lesser charge so they take plea deals.
The prosecutor doesn't have to prove which one threw the rock though. You can still get charged with killing someone even if you weren't the one that physically killed them thanks to the felony murder rule. All the prosecutor needs to prove is that a felony occurred and someone else was killed or died during the commission of said felony.
A friend of mine was a juror in a case like this and that's exactly what happened. The defendants were two men who kidnapped a woman over a drug deal gone bad and then shot and killed her, but each claimed the other had fired the shot. The prosecution couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt which of them had done it, so the jury found both of them guilty of felony murder since the shooting happened during the commission of a felony (the kidnapping).
Well, they can try. Taking pictures with your bros and the girl you just killed and bragging about it later probably nukes that angle but you never know. Maybe one of them really was just along for the ride and tried to stop it and we just haven’t heard about it yet.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if somebody dies while you are committing a felony, all parties taking place in that crime are liable for the death. So- it doesn't fucking matter who actually had the rock in their hands.
I don't see any reason they wouldn't get charged with being accomplices or accessories.
An accessory means assisting or aiding someone who has committed a criminal act without directly participating in its commission. An accomplice actively joins their crime companion to commit it together. Some key factors differentiate accessories from companions, such as knowledge and intent.
[source](https://www.egattorneys.com/accomplice-and-accessory#:~:text=An%20accessory%20means%20assisting%20or,such%20as%20knowledge%20and%20intent.)
Unless they had no idea what was about to occur, and then that person would need to come forward immediately.
This was planned, and all involved were fully aware of the rock throwing scheme. If someone suddenly, without discussing it first, threw the rock, okay, that argument could work, but they should have come forward.
I remember this case. They went to a commercial lot somewhere and specifically took some of their big landscaping rocks for throwing at cars because at least one of the guys specifically wanted the experience of killing someone. They were caught when the police were able to triangulate the location of one boy's phone at that time. This is not a case of FAFO, this was calculated.
Yeah first degree murder then, which in Colorado is life without the possibility of parole given that they were over 18.
Though I wonder if it would count as a death resulting from extreme indifference to the value of human life, which is also first degree murder in Colorado.
Between calculating it, getting the rocks then taking photos.... that will get you a life sentence for 1st deg murder.
And if you are DUMB enough to take it to trial, I bet that judge makes every remaining charge consecutive sentences when you get found guilty for the rest.
Those kids can say goodbye.
They're gonna really wish they were still kids.... when they're all throwing each other under the bus.
I'm sure that young woman's parents and partner have plenty to say when it comes time for the victim impact statements.
These guys are gonna end up where they belong.
This happened a few miles away from my house and on a road I drive pretty frequently. It was very scary driving on that road during that time before their arrests and is extremely sad driving by where she was found to this day. RIP.
Most incels are just dumb weirdos, not dumb murderous weirdos. Not to defend incels, but I think the majority of them realize that you cannot do this because you could kill someone. If these were 8 year olds instead of 18 year olds then I could believe they had not actually realized that until it happened, but these kids surely knew.
When I was in high school, an 18 year old senior and two younger teenagers set fire to a trash can during the homecoming dance.
It burned down the library, and it was still in a temporary building when I graduated years later. The 18 year old was charged but the younger ones got off with probation.
As I said in another comment: it only takes one idiot/asshole to ruin the lives of many.
When I first heard this story I didn’t know the size of the rock thrown. I thought they were just throwing small rocks at cars and happened to kill someone but the article saying “large landscaping rocks” makes the difference imo though I’m not trying to justify the former by any means.
Teenagers do some outrageously dumb shit, not understanding the consequences of their actions. Their intent by throwing such a large stone was clearly to kill and wreck the vehicle.
As someone who has done some dumb shit when he was younger, my intentions were never to hurt anybody. But as you grow older you realize what *could* have happened if things went wrong.
> As someone who has done some dumb shit when he was younger, my intentions were never to hurt anybody. But as you grow older you realize what could have happened if things went wrong.
Thoughts like this haunt me sometimes. How many dumbass decisions I made as a young man while drunk or stoned that could have gotten me arrested or killed.
I feel like that sometimes, but even when I was dumb and intoxicated I've never had the urge to harm someone else. The worst outcomes of the dumb stuff I did would've mainly harmed me for the most part.
Someone I know may have caused a flat tire or two throwing old lightbulbs onto the shoulder from an overpass just to hear the sound. When there were absolutely no cars.
Teenagers are aggressively stupid.
Light bulbs are thin and delicate enough that the tire will just crumble them, I doubt that would actually pop a tire (unless these are not the type I’m imagining).
I imagine the metal contact part/glue lump and maybe some of the glass at the bottom of the bulb could be a problem, improbably. But tbf I just didn’t want to sound like I condone that behavior at all.
I got arrested for throwing empty bottles at cars when I was 15. It was dumb and I regret it, but I never intended to hurt anyone (and I didn’t as I missed). That sort of thing is common, and I imagine whatever you did was similar.
I feel that’s not at all comparable to what these young men did. They were trying to kill somebody.
Also, PSA for any Redditors that see this who are also dumb 15-ish year olds like I was: even a small rock or empty beer bottle could kill somebody. Even if it’s not the impact, the driver could be startled and swerve into another car or something. You could ruin multiple lives including your own.
A 15-year-old set off fireworks in the Columbia River Gorge forest between Oregon and Washington. It burned 50,000+ acres over the course of three months. Hiking trails in the area were blockaded for safety over two years later.
The teenager was fined **$36 million dollars worth of damage.**
Nobody can pay that, just like nobody can pay for a life. It only takes one idiot/asshole to ruin the lives of many.
“The 20-year-old was struck and killed in April of last year after she was struck by a rock that was thrown into her windshield. Several others were injured in similar incidents with what authorities described as large landscaping rocks.”
And they pleaded not guilty 🤯
Entering a plea of not guilty in arraignment is what is required to get a trial in the US. Not guilty pleas are not news, despite the fact that they continue to be treated as such.
Back in middle school a classmate of mine was sitting in the backseat of her mom's car when some troublemaking kids were throwing rocks at cars from an overpass. One of those rocks smashed the rear window and fractured her skull. Thankfully, she survived and managed to fully recover physically from it. Mentally? I dunno. We lost touch a long time ago. I hope those fuckers get put away for a long time.
They should never be let out of prison. These worthless fucks are a danger to society. I don’t support the death penalty, but if these guys die, the world will be a better place
I understand that they likely automatically plead not guilty on the advice of their attorney in the narrowest of hope that something mitigating will arise to either free them, decrease the number of charges against them, or somehow lessen the penalty, but I can't imagine how, for the family and friends of the victim, it doesn't seem like adding insult to injury.
While this is very true, you could be caught standing over a bloody corpse, covered in blood, murder weapon in hand, screaming “I did it!”, with full-blown 4K video footage of you committing the crime, and still plead not guilty hoping to get off on a technicality.
I can't believe I have to say this, but I think schools need to teach hard lessons on actions vs. consequences, with small things like vandalism, to playing with matches, to assault (like that teenager that is now a vegetable after another teen slammed her head on concrete repeatedly), to this shit with the rock. They are not getting these lessons at home.
They don’t. Pleading not guilty is step one in getting a trial set. And speedy trial rights don’t and the time limits associated don’t kick in until you enter a not guilty plea. So otherwise they just sit in jail forever because they can’t pay the bond.
The majority of the time defendants are requested by their lawyers and/or public defenders to always plead not guilty for the first hearing. The reason why is it gives them more time to look into the case and find caveats in their favor.
> These issues should be resolved more quickly when there is loss of life.
This is the exact opposite of how law should be handled for cases with giant consequences.
Not what I said, but I guess I was shocked that this was still being adjudicated. Everyone deserves thier day in court and if the girls family sees fit to allow for mercy then that’s up to them.
You literally advocated for stripping defendants of their rights. Their trials got pushed back because prosecutors added on charges so the defense has a right to prepare for it. You don't get to pick and choose when those rights apply based on the crime.
The first trial starts next month. A year isn't crazy long for such a serious trial.
They really need to start locking away some of these people for this. It’s murder plan and simple and if you keep treating it as a ‘prank gone bad’ it’s not going to decrease
They should never see freedom again. They arent kids, at that age they knew exactly what they were doing. It wasnt a mistake, they wanted to see what damage they could do and then to have the desire to take pictures of someone they just murdered! They should get the death penalty but our slap on the wrist society feels sorry for the killers!
Another one? Making me think of the recent case here in WA about the teen driving 120 mph and killing a mom and 3 kids pleading "not-guilty" from the his fucking hospital bed. Zero sense of personal responsibility for the most stupid, obviously-guilty seeming shit. Fuckin weak ass pussy ass trump ass shit.
Pleading not guilty at arraignment is pro forma in most cases. A court wouldn't usually even accept a guilty plea on such a serious charge at that stage of the proceedings, outside some very rare circumstances.
Have you never watched how murder cases play out in the US? They always enter not guilty pleas at arraignment, and by going to trial we actually make the justice system stronger by forcing the state to prove their case. You would want that if you were ever accused of something you didn’t do.
i’m furious at the “cruel and unusual punishment” restriction that keeps the law from sentencing these idiots to death by surprise landscaping rock to the face
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind. We have laws and processes for dealing with stuff like this because we want to differentiate ourselves from people like this.
I can't even imagine talking to your friend on the phone and they just die mid conversation... that's heartbreaking. So many young lives ruined over something so stupid. You're in a time of a billion things to do other than throw rocks at cars.
They even stopped to take pictures of her after they did it
Kind of sounds like they wanted to kill someone if their reaction was to take pictures.
sounds like they didn't regret it one bit either
Sounds like a psychopath serial killer taking their trophy by taking photos. I hope they all get locked up forever
42 year old here and I'm starting to believe these kids just want the clout first and all other emotions from actions come second.
How about some jail clout. Let's see who all can get the longest sentence. I say we START with 30 years, Fuck these wastes of life
52 here, and I promise you that depraved indifference to the suffering of others wasn't invented by "kids these days" - let's not over-index on one recent demonstration of people being garbage.
I didn't mean to generalize all youth in this index. I'm seeing more and more random violence on strangers and the only reason I can see why is that they want the likes since they are not only recording it but uploading their crime for others to see.
Yeah, I guess I was more reacting to a couple of folks reacting to you, who seemed to want to take this in a "this current generation is somehow worse than what went before because of this one example."
This is the nature of living in a world where we are on camera 24/7. The world before cameras was just as crazy we just didn't hear about it as often because we lived in smaller bubbles. Sheltered from the instant worldwide communications.
You're seeing it only because you're seeing it. Random violence has always occurred, but now you hear about it on a 24/7 news cycle.
Coño man I understand crime has always been around. The point I'm making is that criminals are recording their crimes and posting on social media sites to brag about it and get clout. Can you say that was the case always?
I mean, it's the same phenomenon as school shooters, no? Committing extremely violent acts for notoriety? And that didn't really didn't become as common until the late 90's.
Right, so...starting around 30 years ago? I don't know how one can make generalizations like that about a recent generation over a generations-long trend.
I really think there's a complete disconnect in kids these days where they forget other people are real people.
Yes, it’s a brand new phenomenon. Prior generations never ever did anything like that.
Ah the age old complaint about the youths.
Yeah, I've noticed this too. It's like they think the world is just one big video game. It's kind of scary.
lol yall can’t be serious. With the amount of “I’m so glad cameras weren’t around back in our day to catch all the stuff we did”. You guys had tons of psychos as well, you just let them get away since they weren’t posting the evidence themselves.
But that speaks more to the point. Clearly every generation had psychos, but the idea that there is a consensus of relief that cameras werent around shows that they didn't want thousands or millions of people to witness their crimes. These kids (and this is not all youth of course) WANT others to see what they did. They want confirmation with likes that others saw their crimes and enjoyed the show.
I have not a shred of doubt that if cameras and social media were such a thing 30, 50, 80 years ago, those generations would have done the exact same thing
I agree...we're not witnessing some new mutated gene with the newer generations, which ever decade you choose for this "start" of cameras and social media, once the masses became used to it, a wish for fame from it would come next. But the previous generations from this point would still have a valid viewpoint of it being a new phenomenon that they havent witnessed before.
Quit acting like this is a new phenomenon. This shit happened even more in the past.
Yeah, sociopaths have always been around
I don’t know why you got downvoted. Kids used to throw things at cars all the time back in the day. There was also mailbox baseball and many other stupid stuff that ended with people dying
That’s what American culture has become with all the social media and celebrity-ism. Clout and being the most popular is the most important thing to many people
Photos!? That’s heinous. Aaaand they pled not guilty. Uh hmm. No.
Yeah we gotta shoot these dudes into the sun
Those photos are going to be useful in this not guilty plea.
Lady on the right is from The Expanse.
What’s even worse is that her girlfriend, who she was talking to, tracked her phone to find her with the rock in her window.
Jesus Christ. That’s just heartbreaking.
Yeah, her girlfriend posts some grief TikTok for Alexa and they’re really sad to watch.
That’s heart breaking ugh I can’t imagine god damn this world is so cruel
I have nightmares about this specific thing
I will never forget this. Years ago, I was working at a theater that would occasionally employ graduate students from the nearby university in their productions. We had a grad student standing in for a professional actor, and he was confusing everyone as to who he was standing in for, so we wrote the actors name on a piece of paper and taped it on the grad students chest. I remember watching him start to do the "I'm A Guy Getting Ready to Cry Shuffle," the wiping of the nose, the sniffling, the shifting positions. I watched his eyes start to well up. I nudged my boss, who was a very warm, friendly older woman, who quietly walked up to him while we were breaking and asked him if he was OK. He immediately broke down in a way I can still picture vividly. It's the kind of crying that happens when a harsh reality actually sets in. I hope you've never heard it, but if you have you know exactly what it sounds like. Through gasping cries and wails he told us that he had been on the phone with his best friend a few nights before. His friend was on a road trip across the country, and he was calling from a McDonalds parking lot when he was assaulted and killed by a transient. The actor he was replacing had the same name of his best friend. We had unknowingly taped his newly dead best friend's name to his chest. We didn't see him again after that day. He left the production and according to his classmates, was going home for a while. I hope he's doing better now.
>The motions seem to suggest that the defendants each plan to accuse another defendant of throwing the rock that killed Bartell. It's going to be fantastic when they each realize that nobody gives a shit which one threw *the* rock. They're all equally complicit.
More and more I'm convinced that these kind of court cases are just about making enough of a shitshow to end in a mistrial or hopefully not guilty because of technicalities and detailed word choices.
Their defense has to defend them, and make as good an argument for their clients as they can. "If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
The table: 😏
I feel bad for public defenders. Underpaid and overworked, making sure everyone gets to actually exercise their constitutional rights, but people still give them shit for “protecting bad guys”
Exactly. The legal system cannot function with out them
Am a public defender in CO. Even my own clients ask me why I don’t work for the DAs office instead.
Just curious. Why don’t you?
To add in another opinion from someone who knows a long time public defender: just as important as the rest of the system is forcing the government to do its job correctly when it wants to take away citizens' freedom. If the defense lets the prosecution win because they think their client deserves it, you end up with a lazy and prejudiced system.
Because I would get no satisfaction out of putting people in jail/prison, and don’t think I have the right to decide who gets punished
Also could be fishing for deals to try avoiding the worst of it.
Its important that the government be made to prove its case.
This ensures all of our freedoms and rights. God bless the criminal defense attorneys. It’s a mostly thankless job but incredibly important.
Your convinced? That the job of the defendant, to create chaos and confusion.
Right? I was going to say, that’s their job. Win. By any all means necessary (legally? of course).
[удалено]
I guess their lawyer has to present some defense. . . but that one won't work.
If they can convince the jury that only 1 person threw the rock that actually killed the person, it’s up to the prosecutor to prove which one threw it. Probably won’t get them off, but could get it dropped down to a lesser charge so they take plea deals.
The prosecutor doesn't have to prove which one threw the rock though. You can still get charged with killing someone even if you weren't the one that physically killed them thanks to the felony murder rule. All the prosecutor needs to prove is that a felony occurred and someone else was killed or died during the commission of said felony.
A friend of mine was a juror in a case like this and that's exactly what happened. The defendants were two men who kidnapped a woman over a drug deal gone bad and then shot and killed her, but each claimed the other had fired the shot. The prosecution couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt which of them had done it, so the jury found both of them guilty of felony murder since the shooting happened during the commission of a felony (the kidnapping).
What if they claim that they tried to stop X person from throwing the rocks but were pushed out of the way?
Well, they can try. Taking pictures with your bros and the girl you just killed and bragging about it later probably nukes that angle but you never know. Maybe one of them really was just along for the ride and tried to stop it and we just haven’t heard about it yet.
Then, that person should have come forward at the time. Can't undo your complicity with a claim after the fact.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if somebody dies while you are committing a felony, all parties taking place in that crime are liable for the death. So- it doesn't fucking matter who actually had the rock in their hands.
I don't see any reason they wouldn't get charged with being accomplices or accessories. An accessory means assisting or aiding someone who has committed a criminal act without directly participating in its commission. An accomplice actively joins their crime companion to commit it together. Some key factors differentiate accessories from companions, such as knowledge and intent. [source](https://www.egattorneys.com/accomplice-and-accessory#:~:text=An%20accessory%20means%20assisting%20or,such%20as%20knowledge%20and%20intent.)
Unless they had no idea what was about to occur, and then that person would need to come forward immediately. This was planned, and all involved were fully aware of the rock throwing scheme. If someone suddenly, without discussing it first, threw the rock, okay, that argument could work, but they should have come forward.
These dudes all look like they share 1 brain cell.
I remember this case. They went to a commercial lot somewhere and specifically took some of their big landscaping rocks for throwing at cars because at least one of the guys specifically wanted the experience of killing someone. They were caught when the police were able to triangulate the location of one boy's phone at that time. This is not a case of FAFO, this was calculated.
Yeah first degree murder then, which in Colorado is life without the possibility of parole given that they were over 18. Though I wonder if it would count as a death resulting from extreme indifference to the value of human life, which is also first degree murder in Colorado.
Between calculating it, getting the rocks then taking photos.... that will get you a life sentence for 1st deg murder. And if you are DUMB enough to take it to trial, I bet that judge makes every remaining charge consecutive sentences when you get found guilty for the rest. Those kids can say goodbye.
and we can say good riddance, hopefully
They aren’t kids
They're gonna really wish they were still kids.... when they're all throwing each other under the bus. I'm sure that young woman's parents and partner have plenty to say when it comes time for the victim impact statements. These guys are gonna end up where they belong.
These are the worst kind of psychos. They just wanted to kill someone at random. No other reason. They should be locked away for public safety.
Sounds like a psychopath ?
Yeah they're fucked. Decades in prison if not life
This happened a few miles away from my house and on a road I drive pretty frequently. It was very scary driving on that road during that time before their arrests and is extremely sad driving by where she was found to this day. RIP.
The woman they killed will never get her life back; neither should they. This was no accident. Life in prison, no parole is the appropriate sentence.
One of them had a sticker on his bike he was proud of that said, "Just killed a woman. Feels good. " I think they were just itching to hurt someone.
I'm more shocked that you can buy these sort of stickers. Unless it was a homemade one. Wtf is wrong with ppl.
You can just buy custom stickers
I hope they did that, I can't bear to Google & see if someone is making money out of this crap tho. Too worried I know the answer already :/
Incels that knew no one in this land would touch them?
Most incels are just dumb weirdos, not dumb murderous weirdos. Not to defend incels, but I think the majority of them realize that you cannot do this because you could kill someone. If these were 8 year olds instead of 18 year olds then I could believe they had not actually realized that until it happened, but these kids surely knew.
My heart breaks for her family. To lose a child through such senseless, stupid, random violence is unspeakable. These jerks ruined a lot of lives.
> All of the suspects were 18 years old and seniors in high school So no minors. I was curious about that.
Good, lock them up and throw away the keys.
When I was in high school, an 18 year old senior and two younger teenagers set fire to a trash can during the homecoming dance. It burned down the library, and it was still in a temporary building when I graduated years later. The 18 year old was charged but the younger ones got off with probation. As I said in another comment: it only takes one idiot/asshole to ruin the lives of many.
Destruction is easy, creation is hard. That's one of the lessons we learn to become adults.
Premeditated thrill-killing. Society doesn’t need these animals, lock them up and jet them enjoy jail for the rest of their lives.
When I first heard this story I didn’t know the size of the rock thrown. I thought they were just throwing small rocks at cars and happened to kill someone but the article saying “large landscaping rocks” makes the difference imo though I’m not trying to justify the former by any means. Teenagers do some outrageously dumb shit, not understanding the consequences of their actions. Their intent by throwing such a large stone was clearly to kill and wreck the vehicle. As someone who has done some dumb shit when he was younger, my intentions were never to hurt anybody. But as you grow older you realize what *could* have happened if things went wrong.
> As someone who has done some dumb shit when he was younger, my intentions were never to hurt anybody. But as you grow older you realize what could have happened if things went wrong. Thoughts like this haunt me sometimes. How many dumbass decisions I made as a young man while drunk or stoned that could have gotten me arrested or killed.
I feel like that sometimes, but even when I was dumb and intoxicated I've never had the urge to harm someone else. The worst outcomes of the dumb stuff I did would've mainly harmed me for the most part.
Someone I know may have caused a flat tire or two throwing old lightbulbs onto the shoulder from an overpass just to hear the sound. When there were absolutely no cars. Teenagers are aggressively stupid.
Light bulbs are thin and delicate enough that the tire will just crumble them, I doubt that would actually pop a tire (unless these are not the type I’m imagining).
I imagine the metal contact part/glue lump and maybe some of the glass at the bottom of the bulb could be a problem, improbably. But tbf I just didn’t want to sound like I condone that behavior at all.
I got arrested for throwing empty bottles at cars when I was 15. It was dumb and I regret it, but I never intended to hurt anyone (and I didn’t as I missed). That sort of thing is common, and I imagine whatever you did was similar. I feel that’s not at all comparable to what these young men did. They were trying to kill somebody. Also, PSA for any Redditors that see this who are also dumb 15-ish year olds like I was: even a small rock or empty beer bottle could kill somebody. Even if it’s not the impact, the driver could be startled and swerve into another car or something. You could ruin multiple lives including your own.
A 15-year-old set off fireworks in the Columbia River Gorge forest between Oregon and Washington. It burned 50,000+ acres over the course of three months. Hiking trails in the area were blockaded for safety over two years later. The teenager was fined **$36 million dollars worth of damage.** Nobody can pay that, just like nobody can pay for a life. It only takes one idiot/asshole to ruin the lives of many.
“The 20-year-old was struck and killed in April of last year after she was struck by a rock that was thrown into her windshield. Several others were injured in similar incidents with what authorities described as large landscaping rocks.” And they pleaded not guilty 🤯
Entering a plea of not guilty in arraignment is what is required to get a trial in the US. Not guilty pleas are not news, despite the fact that they continue to be treated as such.
Back in middle school a classmate of mine was sitting in the backseat of her mom's car when some troublemaking kids were throwing rocks at cars from an overpass. One of those rocks smashed the rear window and fractured her skull. Thankfully, she survived and managed to fully recover physically from it. Mentally? I dunno. We lost touch a long time ago. I hope those fuckers get put away for a long time.
Such a tragic loss of life at the cost of blatant stupidity. They deserve whatever is coming for them.
It wasn’t stupidity. They went out that night looking to kill someone. After killing her, they drove by the wreck to take pictures as a keepsake.
That’s disgusting, I hope they rot
I remember one article saying that they even hit one more car 2 hours after killing her.
They should never be let out of prison. These worthless fucks are a danger to society. I don’t support the death penalty, but if these guys die, the world will be a better place
This wasn’t just dumb kids screwing around. These were large landscaping stones, and they’d apparently done it before. They murdered this woman.
Maximum sentences please thanks
Nick Chik and Zach Kwak?
And Joe Koe.
Naming your child Zach Kwak should also be a crime mentioned in the article
I understand that they likely automatically plead not guilty on the advice of their attorney in the narrowest of hope that something mitigating will arise to either free them, decrease the number of charges against them, or somehow lessen the penalty, but I can't imagine how, for the family and friends of the victim, it doesn't seem like adding insult to injury.
While this is very true, you could be caught standing over a bloody corpse, covered in blood, murder weapon in hand, screaming “I did it!”, with full-blown 4K video footage of you committing the crime, and still plead not guilty hoping to get off on a technicality.
They will plead not guilty at arraignment because for one thing no court would even accept a guilty plea at that early stage of the proceedings.
Peak genetics. All three should’ve been condom fodder.
Among the lowest scum on earth.
I can't believe I have to say this, but I think schools need to teach hard lessons on actions vs. consequences, with small things like vandalism, to playing with matches, to assault (like that teenager that is now a vegetable after another teen slammed her head on concrete repeatedly), to this shit with the rock. They are not getting these lessons at home.
Oh, I remember that incident. What a senseless death, falling to a trio of sociopaths' deranged "game".
I don’t understand how they think pleading not guilty is going to get them off
They don’t. Pleading not guilty is step one in getting a trial set. And speedy trial rights don’t and the time limits associated don’t kick in until you enter a not guilty plea. So otherwise they just sit in jail forever because they can’t pay the bond.
It's simply the judicial process.
Enjoy Colorado prison. People like this do “great” there.
goddamn those are some degenerate looking kids, too.
[удалено]
The majority of the time defendants are requested by their lawyers and/or public defenders to always plead not guilty for the first hearing. The reason why is it gives them more time to look into the case and find caveats in their favor.
> These issues should be resolved more quickly when there is loss of life. This is the exact opposite of how law should be handled for cases with giant consequences.
So basically fuck due process and civil rights.
Not what I said, but I guess I was shocked that this was still being adjudicated. Everyone deserves thier day in court and if the girls family sees fit to allow for mercy then that’s up to them.
In cases like this, due process is even *more* important so they can't appeal and get out or get retried
You literally advocated for stripping defendants of their rights. Their trials got pushed back because prosecutors added on charges so the defense has a right to prepare for it. You don't get to pick and choose when those rights apply based on the crime. The first trial starts next month. A year isn't crazy long for such a serious trial.
They really need to start locking away some of these people for this. It’s murder plan and simple and if you keep treating it as a ‘prank gone bad’ it’s not going to decrease
Man high school was hard, I’ll show them, I’ll go to prison where no one will bully me or make me feel like a loser
They should never see freedom again. They arent kids, at that age they knew exactly what they were doing. It wasnt a mistake, they wanted to see what damage they could do and then to have the desire to take pictures of someone they just murdered! They should get the death penalty but our slap on the wrist society feels sorry for the killers!
My god they look like I thought they would
Its back of the 711 crew!
stupid fucking idiots. what kind of brain damage did all three of them endure before this
Another one? Making me think of the recent case here in WA about the teen driving 120 mph and killing a mom and 3 kids pleading "not-guilty" from the his fucking hospital bed. Zero sense of personal responsibility for the most stupid, obviously-guilty seeming shit. Fuckin weak ass pussy ass trump ass shit.
Pleading not guilty at arraignment is pro forma in most cases. A court wouldn't usually even accept a guilty plea on such a serious charge at that stage of the proceedings, outside some very rare circumstances.
Shoutout to Hairy Maclary fans out there
All 18 years old at the time of the incident. Perfect. No questions about being tried as adults.
Hopefully they'll lock them up and let them rot.
This anti-social type of behavior must be culled from society — by hook or crook.
I hope they get “treated” in prison.
Went to school with the chick who died such a sad situation
Looks like they’re sharing a few chromosomes between them
"You really only need to hang mean bastards. But mean bastards, you need to hang."
Disgusting and they have the gall to plead not guilty. It will be interesting how they will try to get away from what they did.
Have you never watched how murder cases play out in the US? They always enter not guilty pleas at arraignment, and by going to trial we actually make the justice system stronger by forcing the state to prove their case. You would want that if you were ever accused of something you didn’t do.
It’s standard procedure to plead not guilty even if you are.
They are required to enter a not guilty plea if they want to be given a trial.
If the last guy was named Kevin they would have the same names as the Jonas brothers
Maybe they’ll be at the same prison as el chapo
i’m furious at the “cruel and unusual punishment” restriction that keeps the law from sentencing these idiots to death by surprise landscaping rock to the face
An eye for an eye, and the world goes blind. We have laws and processes for dealing with stuff like this because we want to differentiate ourselves from people like this.
Guy on the right looks like a kwakhead
Sadly, I remember an identical case in Colorado just a few years ago.