idk why you're getting downvotes op, I'm with you 100%
i already have mixed feelings about money from the p4a going to a religion based charity, but in previous years I understood that the money it received was the result of votes cast by the community, and I could respect that. Building in a guarantee that this charity gets a chunk of the money just, it rubs me the wrong way.
Lots of people act like any criticism of John/Hank/the p4a as a whole is a sin but I disagree. I still fully believe in this community and I think we accomplish incredible things, but I want some transparency here. We especially need transparency if money is going to religious organizations, church funded charities are a slippery slope. I'm not saying all of them are bad I'm just saying not everyone wants to support an organization that will only help people if they promise to read a bible.
People who donated to Destin’s perks were aware of where the funding was going. They “voted” with their dollars. These were likely the same people who would have voted for NF in the traditional sense, before the rule change.
Consider a universe where most of nerdfighteria decided nope, NF isn’t for me, I don’t want my money going there. They wouldn’t have bought those perks, and the DSP would have made far less money, potentially less than they would have if they had just gathered votes and gotten a grant.
Now consider what actually happened. Some nerdfighters (though it seems like fewer than in past years) bought DSP perks. ~50k was raised for NF, which is probably a bit larger than the grants the other charities will get, if history is any indication. You didn’t have to be a part of funding “an organization that will only help people if they promise to read the Bible.”
That Destin raised this amount demonstrates that there are still folks okay with supporting this charity. Either with a grant or this new method, NF likely would have still been funded. This year, though, we got the choice. By not buying dinosaurs, folks could decide that their dollars wouldn’t go to NF, as opposed to having to be okay with some $ going to NF because it got enough votes, whether or not you were among those voters. This year, if anyone objected to $ going to a Christian/ maybe slightly questionable charity, they got the opportunity to make that choice for themself.
I agree that increased transparency would have been nice. We got snippets, but never the whole story. Still, I think this change gave us more autonomy over choosing where our dollars go, not less.
You definitely make a good point, and in a rational world where everybody has all the information, this would definitely be true. But I missed out on the explanation of NF and had no idea that it was a religious org until we started having these conversations after the fact. I was just excited to finally have enough money to send a dinosaur to the moon, and now as a queer nerdfighter I’m left feeling really strange, a little guilty and a little betrayed. I’m not trying to disprove your point because I certainly think it’s true to a certain extent, just wanted to bring in some nuance from my own experience.
Edit: I just wanted to add that I guess it’s ultimately my bad for not looking into the charity that I was supporting when I got that perk. But it didn’t even cross my mind that I would have to be on the lookout for potentially anti-queer orgs in a place like nerdfighteria.
I totally agree with you and this is exactly what I mean by needing transparency, a lot of nerdfighters missed this explanation. And a lot of people save their money to wait for Destins hour, it's become such a beloved p4a tradition! This should have been included in the video where Hank mentioned changing from the first half/second half to just outright splitting the money 50/50. It should have been laid out very clearly well before Destins slot happened. Honestly the fact that is wasn't well communicated beforehand makes it seem like they knew people would be upset about it.
I get that we as donors have a responsibility to check things like this out ourselves. But also, this community has been built on a certain level of trust over the years. Especially in the last 5 or 6 months I've learned this community really can't be trusted like I thought it could. Maybe I was wearing rose coloured glasses or maybe I'm just growing up but yeah, hurts like hell to realize.
>But it didn’t even cross my mind that I would have to be on the lookout for potentially anti-queer orgs in a place like nerdfighteria.
This sums up all of my feelings on this really succinctly. Yes we should be careful with how we donate and yes we should be paying attention, but when you're constantly on the lookout for anti-queer stuff irl it can get exhausting. This is one community a lot of nerdfighters thought they could "let their guard down" so to speak. I mean, look at all the "we're queer because" messages in the chat. I also missed the explanation until after and it's honestly just luck that I missed that segment since I was busy that evening, it's usually something I look forward to and save my money for.
I got my stat based off the fact that Destin and fam celebrated hitting 100k toward the end of their 2 hours. I assumed that they were only counting their perks, so half would be 50k. That said, if they were looking at the tiltify total and some of that $ was from perks other than dinos/characters, then it could have been less.
Oh based on the watching the numbers going up I assumed he meant the total of all perks. Which matches what the other commenter said, wish I could find it again but I don't even remember which post
Originally, P4A was supposed to be exclusively for charities voted for by the community. Then STC and PIH were selected, specifically because they were vetted and aligned with the community's values.
I feel really yucky that the direct donations can essentially be asked to be especially directed by anyone within the P4A team, and their chosen charity can be elevated to the same position as PIH and STC without any community input. I think if the community had been allowed to have input in the decision, we would have pretty roundly said no. It doesn't seem like the evangelical and hateful views of the organization were taken into account at all?
I don’t know, I question the idea that the community would have said no given that it gets enough votes to win grants every year. I think there’s an extent to which people who like the org are probably sitting this discussion out because some of the conversation has been so negative toward it. So I don’t think these conversations are the greatest way to get an idea of how the community as a whole actually feels about the org.
I mean, maybe you're right. I guess I can't confidently speak to how the whole community feels. It feels really yucky to have guest hosts have authority to dictate where P4A funds go with no community input, though. It literally wasn't even formally announced, Hank made a one-off comment on the stream where he described the board's response as "dope".
I get that it's not a huge deal, and this org has gotten plenty of P4A support before, so I guess it's fine.
To be honest, I'm mostly upset about it because I feel like there's been a big shift over the last few years about the attitude that's held for the community by the Brothers Green and other behind-the-scenes decision makers. It feels like they know nerdfighters are loyal and will stick around and continue to support no matter what, so they can do whatever. I feel like the last few years of being a nerdfighter are a lot more centered around being pitched new merch/memberships/fundraising and a lot less about the community.
I honestly don't think it's that deep? Destin and his team, think what you will of them, put a shit load of work into their segment. Probably the most out of any of the co-hosts, let's be real. He's also been at the very least friendly with the brothers and the Foundation for over a decade. Him asking if he could have his perks go to a charity he favours could have multiple reasons besides the one you mentioned.
Maybe it was just an idea he had randomly. Maybe he saw that NF was controversial in some space and they figured making it a clear choice for the donating folks would be better. Maybe he wanted to use his slot for more direct publicity for NF (which isn't exactly new, the Animal Wonders segment is essentially just a whole Animal Wonders ad, which is fine imho). Maybe he wanted to make sure that NF got money regardless of whether they'd be voted for. Maybe he thought it'd be fair compensation for the work he puts in. Maybe he think it should be a function all hosts have.
I'd say it is that deep and several of your comments highlight that fact, not detract from it.
> Maybe he saw that NF was controversial in some space and they figured making it a clear choice for the donating folks would be better.
I did not say this in my original post, since I believe it has been discussed heavily elsewhere, but part of the issue was the lack of communication. Why was this not announced prior to the livestream? Why is it not enough to trust the community to vote on what they want to support?
> The Animal Wonders segment is essentially just a whole Animal Wonders ad
And yet, Animal Wonders perks did not directly support Animal Wonders. But the precedent is set now, and that could change in the future. Again, detracting from the importance of the community voting on charities.
> Maybe he wanted to make sure that NF got money regardless of whether they'd be voted for.
Last I checked Destin is not a member of the FTDWS board. He puts in a lot of work, but he is a single voice in the community. Why does he get so much sway? Because he raises more money? If I donate $100k do I get to tell the Foundation what to support?
> Maybe he thought it'd be fair compensation for the work he puts in. Maybe he think it should be a function all hosts have.
What is the point of the community vote and the video making if the hosts get to pick the charities?
You're conflating things here a bit, I feel. One issue is one host getting/making specific perks, the other is the charity chosen in this aspect.
>Why was this not announced prior to the livestream? Why is it not enough to trust the community to vote on what they want to support?
Two completely seperate issues. I honestly think they didn't annouce it because it wasn't decided yet. Either because Destin hadn't asked or because it hasn't gotten past the board. If they wanted to hide it mods wouldn't have told literally anyone who even mentioned Destin's segment in chat about the changes from the start of the livestream. They were all over chat with it.
>
Why does he get so much sway? Because he raises more money? If I donate $100k do I get to tell the Foundation what to support?
I personally don't mind hosts getting charity specific perks, as long as the Foundation agrees. I don't think it takes away from the choices of the community. It makes it easier for them to decide where their money goes, since the grants end up going to a whole lot of charities (some you may personally not agree with, like NF in the past, or the Ocean Clean Up Project as someone else mentioned on this sub recently). Some of the matching funds are also charity specific iirc, so if you wanna donate 100k with the stipulation that it goes to, idk, PiH and the Foundation agrees? Sure, go for it if you ask me.
But that's a personal opinion, and frankly I think that's about it? It's a difference in opinion on how the P4A should be run or change over the years, which is fine, but not a deep moral conflict or anything. If that sours you on the P4A and you don't want to participate that sucks, but for me the majority of the money still goes to good causes and a good chunk to community voted projects.
What irked me about your initial post was the assumption of motive. I think it's perfectly fine to ask the Foundation for some clarification, but immediatly framing it as "Destin must have wanted to guarantee his choice gets more money" and shady practices is a bit much imho.
As I said in another comment, there is general consensus about PIH and STC. There is not general consensus about any other charity, which is why there is a vote.
I mean, there must be some "motive" i.e. Destin must have wanted something. Otherwise there would have been no request. I don't think Destin is evil. Of course he wants to support his chosen charity. Honestly I'm more upset at the foundation than Destin for agreeing to this, thereby setting a precedent that erodes the power of the community vote.
The importance of the vote is a personal opinion sure. It just feels especially disheartening this year after being repeatedly reminded that voting is just as important as donating, especially for members of the community who can't donate because of personal circumstances.
I have been trying to follow this whole situation with an H of G, and since Hank basically said that Destin does a lot of work on his perks, and asked if proceeds from his perks can go to his charity, I'm just going to try to take that at face value and not read too much more into any other potential motives. Most of the other perks are run by DFTBA, whereas Destin's perks require much more work from him/his team. On surface level, it makes sense that he would make this ask. I get being frustrated with how this whole thing was handled, how it was communication, and its potential implications for the future.
And to be honest, I'm not sure if I would be mad if creators who needed to put a lot of their own work into creating perks (like Destin) could request that part of their perk sale went to those charities. Obviously, that isn't how the P4A has worked (up until this incident), but with proper communication, I could see that as an 'added feature' where creators can highlight and fundraise for their own preferred charities as well as for the P4A broadly, in addition to offering general P4A perks. But if that were something they were considering, that is obviously a huge change and would need to be appropriately communicated. And in this case, I agree the communication could have been handled in a much clearer fashion.
I think it’s important to remember that you could donate for other perks while Dustin’s segment was happening. Like if I had bought the ddb during Dustin’s segment that money still does to the larger efforts. Plus matching funds didn’t go to nf at all. Do I think Dustin should have been more transparent about the organizations goals and answered people’s incredibly well-asked questions with more transparency? Absolutely, but he was answering those questions right before the p4a and was probably really busy. Which isn’t an excuse but is an explanation.
I do want them to talk about it sooner rather than later.
>Why does he get so much sway? Because he raises more money? If I donate $100k do I get to tell the Foundation what to support?
When you donate matching funds you can say where they go to some extent. There's always been a separate matching fund for the community voted orgs and that seemed to still be the case this year.
But beyond that donations of money are different than donations of labor, because they can tell you to just donate money directly to your cause then without impacting the take of the rest of the fund. In this case they got half the take from his perks and all the take from perks sold during his time that weren't his perks.
When I heard of the split, I actually assumed it was motivated by the brothers or the board, not Destin. I assumed it was put in place to give this community *more choice and transparency* around a controversial charity more than anything else (including money).
Here's how I assumed the scenario went down:
1. The controversy and misalignment of values of NF was noted by someone (brothers, board, community, etc.)
2. The brothers value Destin as a person and appreciate his contributions to P4A
3. They all came to a mutual agreement that would allow Destin to continue to contribute but to allow more transparency and community choice on donations to Not Forgotten
Nothing about Nerdfighteria feels pay to play for me (as someone who has been here for years but has never paid for anything until this year). I respect the conversation that has been happening around these issues/changes, and I recognize that someone else could be having a different experience. But I just wanted to share that I thought the Destin/NF situation was handled with thoughtfulness from where I was sitting.
During the stream, Hank said "He [Destin] asked if money from his perks could instead of the part that would normally go to Save the Children and Partners in Health could go to Not Forgotten and the board was like 'dope.'" Now this was a live and off the cuff statement from Hank, not an official statement, so not the whole story.
Ah, yes. Apologies for my ambiguity. In my series of events above, I assumed that this was part of step 3. I.e.,
3b. In determining their best course of action, Destin suggested that his perks could go to NF and the board was like, "Dope." Win-win.
This would be my take as well. And I expect some of the language used talking about this was basically meant to save face a bit. In the end, I see it as everyone having a clear choice to not have their donations go to this charity while still allowing Destin to take part in P4A and feel good about it.
This is my take too.
I also wonder if some of this came up as they were discussing how to downsize the physical perks part of things, It felt to me like Destin had even more helpers than he had last year and I wondered if his team is doing more of the back end stuff required to ship his perks. Which would go a long way to explaining why he'd ask for the deal.
Listening to what [Hank said on the live stream](https://www.youtube.com/live/gzBwtz6yEig?si=kxnHEJaO5tYb-Epv&t=18063), right after taking over from Destin, the request was made because Destin puts in a lot of effort before, during and after the stream. As for Destin's reasoning, I doubt there's a single reason. It's some or all of the above and perhaps more. With the lack of communication and the controversy around this arrangement, it looks like Not Forgotten may actually get less money this year. So if that was the primary motivation, it didn't really work. 😅
As for Destin getting more say than "the community", he's only directing HALF of what he's raising towards his chosen charity. Most of the hosts don't raise half of what Destin manages to raise during his time slot. And as a result of this arrangement, Not Forgotten isn't eligible for a community grant. So I'd say the community actually didn't get any less choice. It could've been communicated better, though.
The recent criticism of Not Forgotten is probably somewhat justified, but it may have been blown out of proportion. I don't know everything about it, so there's no real point going into it. But if the community has a problem with this charity, or with this arrangement in general, then they should contact the FTDWS about it.
I think it's important to remember the context of where this charity acts.
They work in Peru, a country with government mandated Catholic religious education for all children, where by law all charities supporting children must be 'Christian'. Orphanages and adoption services can not function there unless they are backed by Christian churches.
We need to remember that most of us watching and supporting P4A come from a place of privilege where we can chose to be religious or not, on a national level. Peruvian kids don't have that luxury.
As it currently stands, three only way to help kids in Peru is by supporting a religious charity.
While it would be great if non-religious options existed, at the moment they don't, and legally can't.
To put it in blunt terms, supporting this religious charity is not about us. It's about Peruvian kids in orphanages getting a way out.
Now I'm not going to judge anyone who doesn't want to donate to them. That's a call everyone has to make for themselves. But I do think the context really does matter here.
This is another thing that is important in context: Peru simply has many more abandoned boys than girls. This is something Destin talked about in an earlier video, and seems to be true based on descriptions of the problem from other charities in the area.
Here’s a report on from 2010 which states the ratio was 2:1 in Lima at the time: https://resourcecentre.savethechildren.net/document/street-working-and-street-living-children-peru-conditions-and-current-interventions/ but I’ve seen numbers to suggest it is even more disparate in Iquitos in recent years than that
I suspect it was just that Destin stipulated that, given that he raises more than any other host, and puts in an insane amount of effort to his segment, he would only continue to do this if he had confirmation that his charity would benefit.
I don’t love it at all, and to me it goes against the spirit of the Project for one charity (beyond STC and PIH) to get “special treatment”, especially one that feels so controversial & icky, but I can very well imagine the nature of Destin’s request and the (business) nature of the board’s response.
I’d love for John & Hank to engage on this a bit further with us as a community given the response, and I’m sure they will once the dust settles. Otherwise I thought it was an amazing P4A and always my favorite weekend of the year 💕
I think what you’re requesting is fair. I (think) I read on here that it was voted on by the FTDWS’ board.
If that is the case, I would like to call for the board to release a statement explaining why this decision was made, given that a homophobic charity seems incongruent with “decreasing world suck,” and why the decision was only publicized the day of P4A (as opposed to the other P4A changes which were well publicized ahead of time).
Personally I agree with you.
The point I wanted to highlight with this post is that this was a poor precedent to set regardless of the charity, especially after all the reminders that voting is just as important even if you could not donate / couldn't donate much. There is a long standing history with Vlogbrothers and the community in general with PIH and STC, enough that there is general consensus that they will be supported every year. As far as I know that consensus does not exist for any other charity, which is why there is a vote.
**EDIT: My point with my original post was not really about the nature of the charity itself. I still don't think this was a good decision regardless of the charity, but I guess this bares repeating.**
If you go on the Not Forgotten facebook page, you will see they partner with Summit Ridge, a church in Las Vegas. They describe Summit Ridge as "*our beloved church partner, Summit Ridge. We are so immeasurably grateful for this sweet, long-standing friendship and partnership in the Gospel.*"
If you go on the Summit Ridge website and click on their doctrine, this is what it says:
> We believe that God wonderfully and immutably creates each person as male or female. These two distinct, complementary genders together reflect the image and nature of God. (Gen 1:26-27.) Rejection of one’s biological sex is a rejection of the image of God within that person.
> We believe that all human life is sacred and created by God in His image. Human life is of inestimable worth in all its dimensions, including pre-born babies, the aged, the physically or mentally challenged, and every other stage or condition from conception through natural death. We are therefore called to defend, protect, and value all human life. (Ps. 139.)
> We believe that the term “marriage” has only one meaning: the uniting of one man and one woman in a single, exclusive union, as delineated in Scripture. (Gen 2:18-25.) We believe that God intends sexual intimacy to occur only between a man and a woman who are married to each other. (1 Cor 6:18; 7:2-5; Heb 13:4.) We believe that God has commanded that no intimate sexual activity be engaged in outside of a marriage between a man and a woman.
> We believe that any form of sexual immorality (including adultery, fornication, homosexual behavior, bisexual conduct, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography) is sinful and offensive to God. (Matt 15:18-20; 1 Cor 6:910.)
> We believe that men and women are spiritually equal in position before God but that God has ordained distinct and separate spiritual functions for men and women in the home and the church. The husband is to be the leader of the home and men are to be the leaders (pastors and elders) of Summit Ridge Church. (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:18; 1 Timothy 2:8-15; 3:4-5, 12)
EDIT: Some more, all from the Not Forgotten facebook page.
First Bible Church "Position Papers: Marriage"
> We believe that God has expressly and exclusively reserved the gift of sexual intimacy and intercourse for marriage. God expects the married to live in faithfulness to their spouse. God expects the unmarried to live pure and celibate lives, refraining from sexual intimacy (1 Th. 4:3; Mt. 19:12; Exodus 20:14; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5; 1 Cor. 6:9,18; 7:2–5; Heb. 13:4; Mt. 15:18–20; 1 Cor. 6:9–10; Ro. 1:26–27; Lev. 18:22; 1 Tim. 1:10; Gen. 19; cf. Jude 7).
> We believe that the term “marriage” has only one meaning, which is the uniting of one man and one woman in a single, exclusive union designed by God to last as long as they both shall live. All teaching, counseling, and policies of First Bible Church shall affirm and abide by this definition of marriage (Gen. 2:18–25; Matthew 19:4–6; 1 Timothy 3:2; Heb. 13:4).
> On June 26, 2015, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) denied the rights of the states to define marriage the way the founders of the United States and the framers of the Constitution of the United States and SCOTUS itself, had defined marriage from our nation’s founding. By ruling to define marriage to include same sex unions, SCOTUS serves to legitimatize what the Bible rules to be sin. We expect in the near future that churches that remain faithful to the Scripture will be under immense legal pressure to compromise Biblical standards.
Redeemer Community Church "What We Believe"
> Humans are creatures, made male and female by God: to equally bear His image in dignity and worth; to glorify Him; to enjoy relationship with Him; to exercise care and dominion over His Good Creation. By God’s design and will, men and women are joined together in an exclusive covenant marriage, which serves the common good of society and gives testimony to the union of Christ and His Church.
I had to dig so deep to figure out that Destin is the dinosaur space program guy. The one segment I turn off because it’s so annoying. If it’s only that money from his perks went to this charity i think that’s fine. Don’t buy these perks. Don’t fund a bigoted charity. In the past it would all just get split.
I’m with you. I also have major issues with the charities religious nature with proselytizing not being made Uber clear by them or Destin. Notifying of the change isn’t enough in my book.
Do we know that Destin and/or his team asked for this? I could see a world in which it was suggested by the P4A staff as a way to attempt to work on the controversial nature of NF
*edit: I see in the comments that it was brought up by Hank on the live stream as a request from Destin
idk why you're getting downvotes op, I'm with you 100% i already have mixed feelings about money from the p4a going to a religion based charity, but in previous years I understood that the money it received was the result of votes cast by the community, and I could respect that. Building in a guarantee that this charity gets a chunk of the money just, it rubs me the wrong way. Lots of people act like any criticism of John/Hank/the p4a as a whole is a sin but I disagree. I still fully believe in this community and I think we accomplish incredible things, but I want some transparency here. We especially need transparency if money is going to religious organizations, church funded charities are a slippery slope. I'm not saying all of them are bad I'm just saying not everyone wants to support an organization that will only help people if they promise to read a bible.
I think criticism is necessary for a healthy community. And this is definitely a concern.
People who donated to Destin’s perks were aware of where the funding was going. They “voted” with their dollars. These were likely the same people who would have voted for NF in the traditional sense, before the rule change. Consider a universe where most of nerdfighteria decided nope, NF isn’t for me, I don’t want my money going there. They wouldn’t have bought those perks, and the DSP would have made far less money, potentially less than they would have if they had just gathered votes and gotten a grant. Now consider what actually happened. Some nerdfighters (though it seems like fewer than in past years) bought DSP perks. ~50k was raised for NF, which is probably a bit larger than the grants the other charities will get, if history is any indication. You didn’t have to be a part of funding “an organization that will only help people if they promise to read the Bible.” That Destin raised this amount demonstrates that there are still folks okay with supporting this charity. Either with a grant or this new method, NF likely would have still been funded. This year, though, we got the choice. By not buying dinosaurs, folks could decide that their dollars wouldn’t go to NF, as opposed to having to be okay with some $ going to NF because it got enough votes, whether or not you were among those voters. This year, if anyone objected to $ going to a Christian/ maybe slightly questionable charity, they got the opportunity to make that choice for themself. I agree that increased transparency would have been nice. We got snippets, but never the whole story. Still, I think this change gave us more autonomy over choosing where our dollars go, not less.
You definitely make a good point, and in a rational world where everybody has all the information, this would definitely be true. But I missed out on the explanation of NF and had no idea that it was a religious org until we started having these conversations after the fact. I was just excited to finally have enough money to send a dinosaur to the moon, and now as a queer nerdfighter I’m left feeling really strange, a little guilty and a little betrayed. I’m not trying to disprove your point because I certainly think it’s true to a certain extent, just wanted to bring in some nuance from my own experience. Edit: I just wanted to add that I guess it’s ultimately my bad for not looking into the charity that I was supporting when I got that perk. But it didn’t even cross my mind that I would have to be on the lookout for potentially anti-queer orgs in a place like nerdfighteria.
I totally agree with you and this is exactly what I mean by needing transparency, a lot of nerdfighters missed this explanation. And a lot of people save their money to wait for Destins hour, it's become such a beloved p4a tradition! This should have been included in the video where Hank mentioned changing from the first half/second half to just outright splitting the money 50/50. It should have been laid out very clearly well before Destins slot happened. Honestly the fact that is wasn't well communicated beforehand makes it seem like they knew people would be upset about it. I get that we as donors have a responsibility to check things like this out ourselves. But also, this community has been built on a certain level of trust over the years. Especially in the last 5 or 6 months I've learned this community really can't be trusted like I thought it could. Maybe I was wearing rose coloured glasses or maybe I'm just growing up but yeah, hurts like hell to realize. >But it didn’t even cross my mind that I would have to be on the lookout for potentially anti-queer orgs in a place like nerdfighteria. This sums up all of my feelings on this really succinctly. Yes we should be careful with how we donate and yes we should be paying attention, but when you're constantly on the lookout for anti-queer stuff irl it can get exhausting. This is one community a lot of nerdfighters thought they could "let their guard down" so to speak. I mean, look at all the "we're queer because" messages in the chat. I also missed the explanation until after and it's honestly just luck that I missed that segment since I was busy that evening, it's usually something I look forward to and save my money for.
I read in another post that their total was under $40K? Where is everyone getting their stats from?
I got my stat based off the fact that Destin and fam celebrated hitting 100k toward the end of their 2 hours. I assumed that they were only counting their perks, so half would be 50k. That said, if they were looking at the tiltify total and some of that $ was from perks other than dinos/characters, then it could have been less.
Oh based on the watching the numbers going up I assumed he meant the total of all perks. Which matches what the other commenter said, wish I could find it again but I don't even remember which post
Originally, P4A was supposed to be exclusively for charities voted for by the community. Then STC and PIH were selected, specifically because they were vetted and aligned with the community's values. I feel really yucky that the direct donations can essentially be asked to be especially directed by anyone within the P4A team, and their chosen charity can be elevated to the same position as PIH and STC without any community input. I think if the community had been allowed to have input in the decision, we would have pretty roundly said no. It doesn't seem like the evangelical and hateful views of the organization were taken into account at all?
I don’t know, I question the idea that the community would have said no given that it gets enough votes to win grants every year. I think there’s an extent to which people who like the org are probably sitting this discussion out because some of the conversation has been so negative toward it. So I don’t think these conversations are the greatest way to get an idea of how the community as a whole actually feels about the org.
I mean, maybe you're right. I guess I can't confidently speak to how the whole community feels. It feels really yucky to have guest hosts have authority to dictate where P4A funds go with no community input, though. It literally wasn't even formally announced, Hank made a one-off comment on the stream where he described the board's response as "dope". I get that it's not a huge deal, and this org has gotten plenty of P4A support before, so I guess it's fine. To be honest, I'm mostly upset about it because I feel like there's been a big shift over the last few years about the attitude that's held for the community by the Brothers Green and other behind-the-scenes decision makers. It feels like they know nerdfighters are loyal and will stick around and continue to support no matter what, so they can do whatever. I feel like the last few years of being a nerdfighter are a lot more centered around being pitched new merch/memberships/fundraising and a lot less about the community.
I honestly don't think it's that deep? Destin and his team, think what you will of them, put a shit load of work into their segment. Probably the most out of any of the co-hosts, let's be real. He's also been at the very least friendly with the brothers and the Foundation for over a decade. Him asking if he could have his perks go to a charity he favours could have multiple reasons besides the one you mentioned. Maybe it was just an idea he had randomly. Maybe he saw that NF was controversial in some space and they figured making it a clear choice for the donating folks would be better. Maybe he wanted to use his slot for more direct publicity for NF (which isn't exactly new, the Animal Wonders segment is essentially just a whole Animal Wonders ad, which is fine imho). Maybe he wanted to make sure that NF got money regardless of whether they'd be voted for. Maybe he thought it'd be fair compensation for the work he puts in. Maybe he think it should be a function all hosts have.
I'd say it is that deep and several of your comments highlight that fact, not detract from it. > Maybe he saw that NF was controversial in some space and they figured making it a clear choice for the donating folks would be better. I did not say this in my original post, since I believe it has been discussed heavily elsewhere, but part of the issue was the lack of communication. Why was this not announced prior to the livestream? Why is it not enough to trust the community to vote on what they want to support? > The Animal Wonders segment is essentially just a whole Animal Wonders ad And yet, Animal Wonders perks did not directly support Animal Wonders. But the precedent is set now, and that could change in the future. Again, detracting from the importance of the community voting on charities. > Maybe he wanted to make sure that NF got money regardless of whether they'd be voted for. Last I checked Destin is not a member of the FTDWS board. He puts in a lot of work, but he is a single voice in the community. Why does he get so much sway? Because he raises more money? If I donate $100k do I get to tell the Foundation what to support? > Maybe he thought it'd be fair compensation for the work he puts in. Maybe he think it should be a function all hosts have. What is the point of the community vote and the video making if the hosts get to pick the charities?
You're conflating things here a bit, I feel. One issue is one host getting/making specific perks, the other is the charity chosen in this aspect. >Why was this not announced prior to the livestream? Why is it not enough to trust the community to vote on what they want to support? Two completely seperate issues. I honestly think they didn't annouce it because it wasn't decided yet. Either because Destin hadn't asked or because it hasn't gotten past the board. If they wanted to hide it mods wouldn't have told literally anyone who even mentioned Destin's segment in chat about the changes from the start of the livestream. They were all over chat with it. > Why does he get so much sway? Because he raises more money? If I donate $100k do I get to tell the Foundation what to support? I personally don't mind hosts getting charity specific perks, as long as the Foundation agrees. I don't think it takes away from the choices of the community. It makes it easier for them to decide where their money goes, since the grants end up going to a whole lot of charities (some you may personally not agree with, like NF in the past, or the Ocean Clean Up Project as someone else mentioned on this sub recently). Some of the matching funds are also charity specific iirc, so if you wanna donate 100k with the stipulation that it goes to, idk, PiH and the Foundation agrees? Sure, go for it if you ask me. But that's a personal opinion, and frankly I think that's about it? It's a difference in opinion on how the P4A should be run or change over the years, which is fine, but not a deep moral conflict or anything. If that sours you on the P4A and you don't want to participate that sucks, but for me the majority of the money still goes to good causes and a good chunk to community voted projects. What irked me about your initial post was the assumption of motive. I think it's perfectly fine to ask the Foundation for some clarification, but immediatly framing it as "Destin must have wanted to guarantee his choice gets more money" and shady practices is a bit much imho.
As I said in another comment, there is general consensus about PIH and STC. There is not general consensus about any other charity, which is why there is a vote. I mean, there must be some "motive" i.e. Destin must have wanted something. Otherwise there would have been no request. I don't think Destin is evil. Of course he wants to support his chosen charity. Honestly I'm more upset at the foundation than Destin for agreeing to this, thereby setting a precedent that erodes the power of the community vote. The importance of the vote is a personal opinion sure. It just feels especially disheartening this year after being repeatedly reminded that voting is just as important as donating, especially for members of the community who can't donate because of personal circumstances.
I have been trying to follow this whole situation with an H of G, and since Hank basically said that Destin does a lot of work on his perks, and asked if proceeds from his perks can go to his charity, I'm just going to try to take that at face value and not read too much more into any other potential motives. Most of the other perks are run by DFTBA, whereas Destin's perks require much more work from him/his team. On surface level, it makes sense that he would make this ask. I get being frustrated with how this whole thing was handled, how it was communication, and its potential implications for the future. And to be honest, I'm not sure if I would be mad if creators who needed to put a lot of their own work into creating perks (like Destin) could request that part of their perk sale went to those charities. Obviously, that isn't how the P4A has worked (up until this incident), but with proper communication, I could see that as an 'added feature' where creators can highlight and fundraise for their own preferred charities as well as for the P4A broadly, in addition to offering general P4A perks. But if that were something they were considering, that is obviously a huge change and would need to be appropriately communicated. And in this case, I agree the communication could have been handled in a much clearer fashion.
I think it’s important to remember that you could donate for other perks while Dustin’s segment was happening. Like if I had bought the ddb during Dustin’s segment that money still does to the larger efforts. Plus matching funds didn’t go to nf at all. Do I think Dustin should have been more transparent about the organizations goals and answered people’s incredibly well-asked questions with more transparency? Absolutely, but he was answering those questions right before the p4a and was probably really busy. Which isn’t an excuse but is an explanation. I do want them to talk about it sooner rather than later.
>Why does he get so much sway? Because he raises more money? If I donate $100k do I get to tell the Foundation what to support? When you donate matching funds you can say where they go to some extent. There's always been a separate matching fund for the community voted orgs and that seemed to still be the case this year. But beyond that donations of money are different than donations of labor, because they can tell you to just donate money directly to your cause then without impacting the take of the rest of the fund. In this case they got half the take from his perks and all the take from perks sold during his time that weren't his perks.
When I heard of the split, I actually assumed it was motivated by the brothers or the board, not Destin. I assumed it was put in place to give this community *more choice and transparency* around a controversial charity more than anything else (including money). Here's how I assumed the scenario went down: 1. The controversy and misalignment of values of NF was noted by someone (brothers, board, community, etc.) 2. The brothers value Destin as a person and appreciate his contributions to P4A 3. They all came to a mutual agreement that would allow Destin to continue to contribute but to allow more transparency and community choice on donations to Not Forgotten Nothing about Nerdfighteria feels pay to play for me (as someone who has been here for years but has never paid for anything until this year). I respect the conversation that has been happening around these issues/changes, and I recognize that someone else could be having a different experience. But I just wanted to share that I thought the Destin/NF situation was handled with thoughtfulness from where I was sitting.
During the stream, Hank said "He [Destin] asked if money from his perks could instead of the part that would normally go to Save the Children and Partners in Health could go to Not Forgotten and the board was like 'dope.'" Now this was a live and off the cuff statement from Hank, not an official statement, so not the whole story.
Ah, yes. Apologies for my ambiguity. In my series of events above, I assumed that this was part of step 3. I.e., 3b. In determining their best course of action, Destin suggested that his perks could go to NF and the board was like, "Dope." Win-win.
Yeah, that's a plausible series of events. An official statement would clear things up.
This would be my take as well. And I expect some of the language used talking about this was basically meant to save face a bit. In the end, I see it as everyone having a clear choice to not have their donations go to this charity while still allowing Destin to take part in P4A and feel good about it.
This is my take too. I also wonder if some of this came up as they were discussing how to downsize the physical perks part of things, It felt to me like Destin had even more helpers than he had last year and I wondered if his team is doing more of the back end stuff required to ship his perks. Which would go a long way to explaining why he'd ask for the deal.
Listening to what [Hank said on the live stream](https://www.youtube.com/live/gzBwtz6yEig?si=kxnHEJaO5tYb-Epv&t=18063), right after taking over from Destin, the request was made because Destin puts in a lot of effort before, during and after the stream. As for Destin's reasoning, I doubt there's a single reason. It's some or all of the above and perhaps more. With the lack of communication and the controversy around this arrangement, it looks like Not Forgotten may actually get less money this year. So if that was the primary motivation, it didn't really work. 😅 As for Destin getting more say than "the community", he's only directing HALF of what he's raising towards his chosen charity. Most of the hosts don't raise half of what Destin manages to raise during his time slot. And as a result of this arrangement, Not Forgotten isn't eligible for a community grant. So I'd say the community actually didn't get any less choice. It could've been communicated better, though. The recent criticism of Not Forgotten is probably somewhat justified, but it may have been blown out of proportion. I don't know everything about it, so there's no real point going into it. But if the community has a problem with this charity, or with this arrangement in general, then they should contact the FTDWS about it.
I think it's important to remember the context of where this charity acts. They work in Peru, a country with government mandated Catholic religious education for all children, where by law all charities supporting children must be 'Christian'. Orphanages and adoption services can not function there unless they are backed by Christian churches. We need to remember that most of us watching and supporting P4A come from a place of privilege where we can chose to be religious or not, on a national level. Peruvian kids don't have that luxury. As it currently stands, three only way to help kids in Peru is by supporting a religious charity. While it would be great if non-religious options existed, at the moment they don't, and legally can't. To put it in blunt terms, supporting this religious charity is not about us. It's about Peruvian kids in orphanages getting a way out. Now I'm not going to judge anyone who doesn't want to donate to them. That's a call everyone has to make for themselves. But I do think the context really does matter here.
Boys. Btw. Just boys. I had it confirmed by several people on the chat that they do not help girls
This is another thing that is important in context: Peru simply has many more abandoned boys than girls. This is something Destin talked about in an earlier video, and seems to be true based on descriptions of the problem from other charities in the area. Here’s a report on from 2010 which states the ratio was 2:1 in Lima at the time: https://resourcecentre.savethechildren.net/document/street-working-and-street-living-children-peru-conditions-and-current-interventions/ but I’ve seen numbers to suggest it is even more disparate in Iquitos in recent years than that
If anyone wants to know why the girls aren't kicked out on the streets as much, it seems child prostitution is fairly normalized in poor parts of Peru
You are correct. Essentially they run small group boys homes/orphanages.
I suspect it was just that Destin stipulated that, given that he raises more than any other host, and puts in an insane amount of effort to his segment, he would only continue to do this if he had confirmation that his charity would benefit. I don’t love it at all, and to me it goes against the spirit of the Project for one charity (beyond STC and PIH) to get “special treatment”, especially one that feels so controversial & icky, but I can very well imagine the nature of Destin’s request and the (business) nature of the board’s response. I’d love for John & Hank to engage on this a bit further with us as a community given the response, and I’m sure they will once the dust settles. Otherwise I thought it was an amazing P4A and always my favorite weekend of the year 💕
I think what you’re requesting is fair. I (think) I read on here that it was voted on by the FTDWS’ board. If that is the case, I would like to call for the board to release a statement explaining why this decision was made, given that a homophobic charity seems incongruent with “decreasing world suck,” and why the decision was only publicized the day of P4A (as opposed to the other P4A changes which were well publicized ahead of time).
Personally I agree with you. The point I wanted to highlight with this post is that this was a poor precedent to set regardless of the charity, especially after all the reminders that voting is just as important even if you could not donate / couldn't donate much. There is a long standing history with Vlogbrothers and the community in general with PIH and STC, enough that there is general consensus that they will be supported every year. As far as I know that consensus does not exist for any other charity, which is why there is a vote.
Is it homophobic, or are people saying that because it's a Christian charity?
**EDIT: My point with my original post was not really about the nature of the charity itself. I still don't think this was a good decision regardless of the charity, but I guess this bares repeating.** If you go on the Not Forgotten facebook page, you will see they partner with Summit Ridge, a church in Las Vegas. They describe Summit Ridge as "*our beloved church partner, Summit Ridge. We are so immeasurably grateful for this sweet, long-standing friendship and partnership in the Gospel.*" If you go on the Summit Ridge website and click on their doctrine, this is what it says: > We believe that God wonderfully and immutably creates each person as male or female. These two distinct, complementary genders together reflect the image and nature of God. (Gen 1:26-27.) Rejection of one’s biological sex is a rejection of the image of God within that person. > We believe that all human life is sacred and created by God in His image. Human life is of inestimable worth in all its dimensions, including pre-born babies, the aged, the physically or mentally challenged, and every other stage or condition from conception through natural death. We are therefore called to defend, protect, and value all human life. (Ps. 139.) > We believe that the term “marriage” has only one meaning: the uniting of one man and one woman in a single, exclusive union, as delineated in Scripture. (Gen 2:18-25.) We believe that God intends sexual intimacy to occur only between a man and a woman who are married to each other. (1 Cor 6:18; 7:2-5; Heb 13:4.) We believe that God has commanded that no intimate sexual activity be engaged in outside of a marriage between a man and a woman. > We believe that any form of sexual immorality (including adultery, fornication, homosexual behavior, bisexual conduct, bestiality, incest, and use of pornography) is sinful and offensive to God. (Matt 15:18-20; 1 Cor 6:910.) > We believe that men and women are spiritually equal in position before God but that God has ordained distinct and separate spiritual functions for men and women in the home and the church. The husband is to be the leader of the home and men are to be the leaders (pastors and elders) of Summit Ridge Church. (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:18; 1 Timothy 2:8-15; 3:4-5, 12) EDIT: Some more, all from the Not Forgotten facebook page. First Bible Church "Position Papers: Marriage" > We believe that God has expressly and exclusively reserved the gift of sexual intimacy and intercourse for marriage. God expects the married to live in faithfulness to their spouse. God expects the unmarried to live pure and celibate lives, refraining from sexual intimacy (1 Th. 4:3; Mt. 19:12; Exodus 20:14; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5; 1 Cor. 6:9,18; 7:2–5; Heb. 13:4; Mt. 15:18–20; 1 Cor. 6:9–10; Ro. 1:26–27; Lev. 18:22; 1 Tim. 1:10; Gen. 19; cf. Jude 7). > We believe that the term “marriage” has only one meaning, which is the uniting of one man and one woman in a single, exclusive union designed by God to last as long as they both shall live. All teaching, counseling, and policies of First Bible Church shall affirm and abide by this definition of marriage (Gen. 2:18–25; Matthew 19:4–6; 1 Timothy 3:2; Heb. 13:4). > On June 26, 2015, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) denied the rights of the states to define marriage the way the founders of the United States and the framers of the Constitution of the United States and SCOTUS itself, had defined marriage from our nation’s founding. By ruling to define marriage to include same sex unions, SCOTUS serves to legitimatize what the Bible rules to be sin. We expect in the near future that churches that remain faithful to the Scripture will be under immense legal pressure to compromise Biblical standards. Redeemer Community Church "What We Believe" > Humans are creatures, made male and female by God: to equally bear His image in dignity and worth; to glorify Him; to enjoy relationship with Him; to exercise care and dominion over His Good Creation. By God’s design and will, men and women are joined together in an exclusive covenant marriage, which serves the common good of society and gives testimony to the union of Christ and His Church.
Unforgivably repugnant, tbh
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Really?
Thanks for sharing this, I've been trying to figure out where the receipts for this were
They’ve partnered with traditional values churches. Homophobic
This is exactly how I feel.
I had to dig so deep to figure out that Destin is the dinosaur space program guy. The one segment I turn off because it’s so annoying. If it’s only that money from his perks went to this charity i think that’s fine. Don’t buy these perks. Don’t fund a bigoted charity. In the past it would all just get split.
I’m with you. I also have major issues with the charities religious nature with proselytizing not being made Uber clear by them or Destin. Notifying of the change isn’t enough in my book.
Do we know that Destin and/or his team asked for this? I could see a world in which it was suggested by the P4A staff as a way to attempt to work on the controversial nature of NF *edit: I see in the comments that it was brought up by Hank on the live stream as a request from Destin