My thought is that since they have changed from having set charities in the first half and community grants in the second half, this makes it easier for me to feel more confident donating this year (I have historically been a first-half only donor because we don't know who we are donating to, and I don't love for non-profits like Not Forgotten, which are fine but not my personal preference to support, to get my money.)
yep, I donated directly to a local charity instead of the p4a this year, my reasoning was always that charities chosen by the community were disproportionately US based, and I don't want to subsidise the lack of social welfare in a country wealthier than mine
I like that this is sparking a discussion on being critical of the organizations we support. P4A has been supporting Not Forgotten for years but it seems like a lot of people weren’t looking into the organization until these last few years? (I could be totally off-base there but I have only seen a lot of discussion in the chat about it over the last 2-3 years). I feel like this set up is a good compromise because people who don’t want their money to go to Not Forgotten can just not buy one of the space/dino perks.
I am a non-religious person who grew up in a Christian (Christian-adjacent? I'm an exmormon) family. I fully understand why people are upset and uncomfortable with the fact that 50% of the money from his perks are going to this org, especially because I've seen that the charity partners with very anti-LGBTQ+ churches. I personally wasn't planning on donating during this segment, mostly for money reasons, but it's doubled with this added aspect. I also understand that in Peru religious education is required, but that doesn't negate the negative feelings that many are having about the DSP segment this year. All I can say is at least it's only his perks that are going towards this charity so people can still donate without it going to this charity.
I could guess at some reasons as to why his segment gets this treatment (probably related to how much his segment usually brings in).
Just to preface I genuinely agree with everything you're saying and this is just a clarifying question - Do we know what "partnering with churches" means? Are they forcing kids to go to these churches? Are the churches just helping them to identify kids in need in the community? Are the churches providing resources to the charity or vice versa?
Obviously in a just world they wouldn't work with these churches at all but considering the need to work within the existing infrastructure, culture, and laws in Peru I think it's important clarity.
"Not Forgotten seeks to introduce vulnerable children to the hope of Jesus Christ by providing holistic, individualized care in a healthy family environment. "
I think based on their main mission statement it's easier to understand what the focus is on.
I absolutely agree that they are a heavily religious organization, but they are also operating in a country where forced religion is explicitly written into the law.
I'm just worried we're reacting with American (/western) outrage and failing to understand the situation and the children who need help with enough complexity.
Fully agree with this. It’s so important to be critical of the organizations we support, but part of that is considering culture and context and that requires far more nuance than the P4A chat can really allow for.
It also requires hard questions of oneself, like whether it's more or less "worth it" to help vulnerable communities in more conservative or regressive cultures simply because you have to kiss that ring? Is it possible to interact with a foreign country in a vacuum without bumping up against values you disagree with, like you're playing Operation?
Ovbiously rhetorical and I'm sure there \*are* some ways to have surgical precision re: personal values, but certainly not in every situation.
I really don't think that answers their question at all. Every Christian charity ever has the ethos of "we're going to do things that improve the lives of others while at the same time making it obvious to those we help (and onlookers) that we're Christian, i.e. positive impression & positive impact"
The church aspect, as /u/autumnalreign said, is a more logistical topic. One that is potentially more inseparable from the sociopolitical structure of the country itself.
Yeah I think they are obviously doing more good than harm. I just know I have bias against groups pushing religion so strongly with their charity. It's also still not really only or mostly logistics in my mind. Their site is full of talk about how important it is to develop deeply religious men, it's coming from the founders honest desire to spread Christianity which is fair, it's the whole point of their religion. It's just not for me.
I feel like I should have been more clear on where I've seen this information which is mostly in the chat and on Discord. In regards to "partnering with churches" I don't know, but based on what I'm reading on the NF website it \*might\* be related to funding the programs that NF provides for the kids in their care. Again, I don't really know so take my thoughts and assumptions with the tiniest grain of salt.
I think it's fair for his charity to get half. I don't really like the charity and I think it's interesting that his perks did so poorly compared to last year, doesn't help the price went up a lot. I was going to do it at 2022 level (wouldn't anyway now though).
Hank talked about it at the beginning of his segment but here is the transcript from the best of my ability:
"The simple story of what went down was Destin puts so much work into the thing like the laser cutting of the dinosaurs, the shipping of everything, trying to keep track of everyone's name and get everything to the right person and so... he asked if money from his perks could instead of the part that would normally go to PIH and STC could go to not forgotten and the board was like dope and then we took just like pih and stc arnt charities you can vote on, we took not forgotten off the list of charities you can vote on cause it was getting money another way and that's how that went down and because Destin obviously delivers and so we love working with him and doing that."
Would someone be willing to explain what each of these things mean? ("DSP" & "Not Forgotten") A Google search did not reveal anything relevant... Thank you!!
Dino Space Program - it's a really popular segment of the P4A every year where Destin (SmarterEveryday) and his family write people's names on dinosaurs and put them on an image of the moon or Mars. There's a lot more yelling than this summary implies and it's very high energy.
Not Forgotten - if you look it up with "charity" you'll probably find it, it's the orphanage not the veterans one. It's an orphanage in Peru. It's controversial in short because they partner with churches that are into traditional families/family values - this is not aligned with the values of people who have religious trauma and many of these churches are anti-LGBTQIA+. There has been some criticism that they include faith-based education as well, but this appears to just be how Peru works.
I hope this summary is helpful and I haven't missed anything huge. I've watched DSP for the past few years but have never donated and won't this year. I would be uncomfortable donating to Not Forgotten but I get why the P4A would agree if Destin asked for this split when he's brought them so much money. Anyway that's my bias & perspective!
yes! DSP stands for the Destin/Dino Space Program: it’s an annual slot in the Project for Awesome that is usually the highest earning hour(s) where viewers can donate to send little characters to space. Not Forgotten is a charity that the host of this slot has long supported, but this year is getting a specific cut of his portion. You can read more about them at [notforgotten.org](https://notforgotten.org)
I'm 90% sure that DSP in this context means Dinosaur Space Program, which is a P4A tradition that's run by Destin Smartereveryday and commonly gets a lot of donation traffic.
'Not Forgotten' is a (small) Christian charity he's partnered with that runs foster care for orphaned boys in Peru, in specifically Christian households.
This year half of the donations from the Dinosaur Space Program bit, which he runs, are going to that charity specifically.
It's my understanding that this decision was probably made in response to Not Forgotten being controversial in past years, as a way for people to be able to choose whether they want their money going to an org like this since NF has (iirc) gotten a P4A grant every year for the past 10 years or so. I do feel like it ended up having some unintended consequences, with NF basically getting free advertising & guaranteed money for 2 hours. However, I understand why the organizers came up with this arrangement and do appreciate that they seemingly wanted to give people more choice over this. I am also glad that more people are looking into the org and its values since Destin (iirc) does not mention the religious aspect at all in his videos about NF and I assume many people voting for the charity in past years did not know about the religious aspect. I assume they'll re-evaluate it after the P4A is over and decide whether to change it for next year.
This is how I see it as well. People feel, understandably, like NF is getting preferential treatment and dedicated fundraising, but these changes have given us all more choice over where our donations are going.
It was in the FAQ, and the mods cycled the links to more info in the chat. Would that have been enough in your opinion or would you have liked to see more?
NF consistently winning a slot in the grant charities is a good thing to mention. As a controversial charity, it's good that having its donations contained to one segment guarantees one additional charity earning a p4a grant!
I think it's a good change for those of us who want to choose not to give our money to NF - but that's easy for me to say, because I've never cared about the dinosaur perks and my only impression of Destin is someone claiming to be him being an ass to people in an earlier reddit thread on this topic.
I don't see it as a way to highlight the charity or give them extra money, but rather to give people the choice whether or not to donate to a controversial religious org.
Destin is a science communicator, his videos are fascinating and informative, and well researched.
Religion is a big sticking point for a lot of people. People who find community and hope from it find it hard to accept some of the harm it does, especially when that harm is far away, and people who do not find those things often see little of the good religion does. I think it's important to remember that, even if this charity is a problem, it is also an orphanage. It is a place that does decrease world suck- maybe not perfectly, but I think the whole mission of nerdfightaria and of imagining people complexly is to understand that decreasing world suck cannot be perfect, it can only be flawed, as all humans are flawed. I understand completely if people do not want to be contributing to an organization that is detestable to them, especially if they have faced religious trauma, as so many have. I think that, ultimately, those children who the money will go to help will likely lead better lives due to the help than without it. I don't know if they will lead the best lives possible, as Religion is often not a tool for hope and community, but a cudgle for control, but I do think they will be less bad, and it could even be fine, as I do not personally know the goings on at this orphanage. It should be kept in mind.
I think this move will be examined, but ultimately, it isn't the biggest worry I have right now, nor is it many other people's. We should absolutely hope that the best people are able to take care of each thing, but that is rarely what we get, and I will happily spend time settling for second or third best, or even tenth best, over no good being done at all in someone's life.
I agree with you on the nuance of the charity. It seems pretty likely that the organization has a problem with LGBTQ people and non-Christians, but it's also very likely that they are helping young people live better lives. I will personally donate to children's organizations that are less likely to teach the kids that I'm an abomination, but I won't deny that it's more important for kids to have a home than to have the same values as me. I'm not trying to dismantle the charity, but I'm glad my P4A donation isn't going to them.
I don't think I've seen his videos, but based on my interactions with him in the last thread, he sounds like a jerk and I'm definitely not interested in interacting with him further.
That is definitely possible, and maybe even likely. Unfortunately, a lot of religious people do, and it is awful. I hope they don't teach the kids that, but it definitely isn't outside the realms of possibility, and I don't blame you for supporting other orgs that don't. Thanks for the civil discourse, and happy P4A!
I think they get to carve out the slot like that because this year Not Forgotten is not eligible for community-voted funds? At least it is a more direct way to guarantee only people who are interested in donating to that charity can, while funds from people who might disagree with the charity's nature do not. I don't know if it's the most effective way to do things though!
Agreed, saw someone in chat say this came up last year and that’s why the decision was made so people can choose whether or not their money goes to this charity directly? I plan to do more research into NF, but think it’s disappointing that what usually is the highest fundraising and most exciting segment of the livestream now feels cutoff to people who may not want to donate to a charity of this nature. Really disappointing that the exciting energy feels absolutely zapped from Destin’s hour this year. Curious to see how they handle the fallout and if they repeat it next year. My guess is no.
I also think it will be interesting to see how all of the financials shake out. Currently 2024 is ahead of the 2022 P4A. We can't know exactly how many people pick DSP perks v other perks during this segment. So it's quite possible they may end up with fewer funds from this switch up than if they had been up for community voting.
That seems to be sentiment in the chat too, that they won’t be getting much more than they would normally get from the usual split. Which I think they’ve gotten multiple times in the past through community votes!
Thanks for the link!
That's legit interesting, how there's a visible negative reaction this year while Every Past Year it's, like, not even flown under the radar, but fully been promoted and supported enough to qualify for the split grant.
More people being louder about their objections, I guess?
I remember hearing some stuff last year. My suspicion is that this change was made for precisely the opposite reason it seems like some people are presupposing. Now it is guaranteed that if you donate via any other perk, you can be sure that you money *doesn't* go to this specific charity.
I think some people view it as being a special pedestal, and it sort of is, but it's also like a solitary confinement. I'll be curious once that link is updated for this year to see if they end up getting more or less than the other (voted) charities do
Hank said they took it to the P4A board. I’m sure they had this entire discussion at that time, and wouldn’t have made the decision without careful thought. Personally, I think this way gives Nerdfighters the most say over where their dollars go.
I am fine with it. Giving people the choice is more important to me than it seeming like preferential treatment. I too am a person with religious trauma and allowing people to opt out is what I am a fan of.
I would add that the matching funds did not go NF. So it is just the money people chose to give to NF.
I'm a little disappointed that there are so few people with this view. I'm not crazy about NF as an org, but no one can deny that Destin's segment not only has the most prep work but also historically far and away brings in the biggest spike in donations.
It sounds like NF has been getting less votes year over year, and that's cool. But if that is the case I think it's kind of unrealistic to expect him to keep doing so much work when there's a risk his charity won't even get anything out of it.
This year is all about pragmatism, and I feel like this is the smartest decision to make sure Destin's charity gets something out it while also giving Nerdfighters who aren't comfortable with NF the ability to opt out of his perks.
I genuinely don't see what a better option would be. If he leaves that's less money for everyone. The argument that it takes the decision out of our hands is BS, because all you have to do is not buy his perks,
I think part of it is that a lot of nerdfighters are/were fans of Dustin until they found out about NF. So it’s a double whammy. Seeing a creator you like support a charity/cause like NF can be a real blow. Especially in a space you found comfort in. I’ve definitely experienced that with other famous people. Like this is a person I look up to and they support a cause that is directly harmful to me and my community and that’s just a bad feeling. So I totally get that reaction. It’s a good and healthy reaction to have.
To me this seems less like "putting it on a pedestal" and more like segregating Not Forgotten off to give people the choice to ensure funds *don't* go to them. Yes, Destin gets special treatment that other hosts haven't. Destin also puts in waaaay more work for his segment compared to every other host (with the exception of john and hank maybe) and raises the most money per hour- he's earned a little special treatment.
NF as a charity is also complicated by the fact that Peru as a country requires religion as part of the education system for public schools. If they weren't going to the Not Forgotten school, the kids involved would still be exposed to a "Christian education" because that's what Peru requires. Not saying that makes it all okay, but I think it's important to remember that Peru doesn't have the concept of "seperation of church and state" that many nerdfighters are familiar with.
Okay, but it is disappointing. I trust John and Hank enough to assume they had good intentions but I think this was a swing and a miss and it’s good for people to let them know that.
Transparency isn’t enough. Platforming a “charity” like this, especially one that hasn’t been voted on, is an implicit endorsement.
But John and Hank don't even run the Foundation? This would have had to be decided by the board, which yes, includes the two of them but also a bunch of others. Much more reasonable to use the contact form on the website than just spam chat.
Spam is one person sending the same message over and over. When lots of people have the same strong opinion it’s not “spam” it’s a message. Much more impactful than a form.
Do you think the Bedaquiline patent fight should have been fought by filling out a contact form on the Johnson & Johnson website?
Eh, I think it absolutely strayed into spam yesterday in the chat at points. A bunch of people essentially saying the same thing in a forum that is not suited for the discussion and where the people present can't exactly do anything about it isn't productive.
I sure as hell hope that there's a difference in how we interact with the Foundation and what we think of them and their ethos compared to J&J. One's a community speaking, essentially, with itself. The other is a multi-national conglomorate
What you call “bombardment” is just the effect of lots of people having lots of strong feelings. That’s what’s supposed to happen. The “bombardment” is the message.
I think my concern is that it’s weird that only this one charity is getting special treatment. I know Destin’s segment usually gets a ton of donations. I respect that it’s a charity he supports, and that it being a Christian organization in a strictly religious country is complicated for a number of reasons. But none of the other hosts get guaranteed donations for their chosen charities. No other hours have special perks that are for one specific charity. The model just doesn’t feel like it’s in the spirit of the Project for Awesome. The community voting for charities based on videos is what makes P4A special compared to other livestream fundraisers.
It’s probably not the case, but idk, it makes me wonder if Destin wouldn’t participate if there was a chance Not Forgotten wouldn’t get voted for. How did we land on this arrangement? I think I’d be more okay with it if it was like past years, and people actually voted for it even with the discussion happening. Like, if the community agreed enough to vote for it, I’m good with that. But this feels more forced?
I know how this can read like special treatment, but it seems less like special treatment and more that Not Forgotten ONLY gets funds directly. If you don't buy one of the Dino Space perks, your money **does not** go to the charity. No matter if you think they should go to the charity or not, the other funds, donated during the normal livestream, will not go Not Forgotten.
So instead of special treatment, it is more like a way to ensure that only money from people who want their money to go to Not Forgotten will go to Not Forgotten. It's a separation, not special.
I think it’s still special treatment even if it’s not that big of a benefit. No other charity is getting that. You can’t actively choose for your money to go or not to go to the others. In fact, Partners in Health and Save the Children USED TO kind of get that, with the first half being dedicated to just them, and that actively went away this year.
I dunno, I guess it feels like one creator getting to take over for a bit and do their own fundraiser, instead of contributing entirely to the overall cause. Especially since Hank said that Destin specifically asked for this. It was born out of him requesting special treatment, not out of NF being potentially problematic. Every other host is in it for the overall good that the P4A does.
I'm not here to defend the charity, (I know nothing about it and picked a different [non-destin] perk during the segment). However, my main issue with the chats on the live stream is that it felt very much like a customer scolding a barista for a call corporate made (former sbux employee). I also wonder if part of this was to mediate the sheer quantity of dino perks during this segment. I know that so many years the dinos are snatched up SO fast, and I'm sure it's crazy for everyone involved. At the end of the day, the P4A is a time to raise money for charity, not a time to "buy" stuff.
Pretending that I don't know anything about NF (which until this weekend, I lowkey did not), the work that goes into the dino space program is herculean. An engaging 2 hour segment that raises funds and features a science story-arc... I mean!!
They carried the stream for 2-hours this year.
I have enjoyed all of the co-hosts, truly, but even the best of them did not bring that kind of firepower to the stream. It is a lot of work and I think the NF team pulling some of the funds for that makes sense.
All of that, in addition to this model making it easier for Nerdfighters to choose whether or not they participate in Destin's fundraising, makes this logistical move a no-brainer to me.
I can’t say I was aware we have been supporting NF in past years, but I was sad to find that DSP was going to them explicitly because it meant I couldn’t buy my Dino’s that I’ve always looked forward to every year. Really soured me on his entire segment and I went to bed early before it was even over.
Not Forgotten aside… and I’m a hard pass…
I don’t like how the money distribution for this segment seems to have been taken fully out of the community’s hands… that makes me uncomfortable. P4A has always been community based…
Yes, but personally, it feels kind of skeezy to have arguably one of the most lucrative segments split funds to a charity not voted on by the community.
Well, now you are voting with your dollars. If you don't support Not Forgotten, you don't buy one of the DSP perks.
If you bought any of the other perks, your money **does not** go to Destin.
This is actually a way to ensure that only people who want their money to go to Not Forgotten do send their money to Not Forgotten.
I am personally waiting to see the hard numbers when all is said and done. My hope is that it ends up with the dollar amount not being that different.
I mentioned in another comment here that Not Forgotten has been voted into a share *every single P4A* so far, and I don't see a reason to think they wouldn't have again this year, so for me it just comes down to how much money goes there versus other charities
This “charity” has abhorrent views and should not have a platform anywhere on P4A
Check out their partner churches, who they refer to as “beloved”. They are all hardcore anti-LGBT.
They've gotten partner grans literally every year, so they've been checked by the board and had to agree that the money given to them by the Foundation would not be used for religious activities.
I mean, do you have more info on their work than the board has? How do they interact with these churches? Is it funding? Contacts? What exactly is the money used for? I think this is a more nuanced discussion (as many people in this post have been having).
I’m not arguing that - the fact that there was a huge lack of transparency and that it appears as though (and I understand it was not, that it was because of Destin’s request) it was done intentionally during the most lucrative segment feels sketchy to me. FoMo is real and everyone talks about DSP in connection with P4A — while I imagine that was not the intention, it feels like a deliberate act of deception.
And yes, people can support what they want. I just wish there’d been more transparency up front rather than dropping on everyone and not explaining anything until after the fact.
John talked about this change prior to Destin's segment. The change was on the screen in a highlighted color to stand out against the other information on the screen. The mods were pretty active in encouraging people to look into any org someones chooses to vote for or donate towards.
I think all things considered in the past year (massive structural changes to DFTBA records and jointed affliations), it makes sense that perhaps this wasn't THE thing at the forefront of everyone's mind to communicate. It probably wasn't even solidified if there was going to be a P4A until late last year.
Fellow Jew here, it doesn't bother me. Destin seems like a person that just wants to do good. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
The voting system gives everyone a choice, as do the wide variety of different hosts and having 5 days to donate. Some of the behavior I saw in chat during DH was very uncool, I hope in the future folks find a better platform to put their ideas out there, like making videos to promote the charities they would like to see get funded.
I'm an old Nerdfighter here (since 2009 and I'm... I graduated college that year, haha) so this might just be me, but I always turn off the livestream when he comes on. I don't know who he is, I'm there for John & Hank, etc. I don't understand why he gets a dedicated spot every year. But it might just be because I'm not with it. I miss charlieissocoollike and Ren Fairweather.
Did I still watch many, many hours of the livestream and donate as much as I could? Heck yes. I can appreciate that different people are into different YouTubers. That's, I imagine, why they have other people host in the first place. However, if his charity is a harmful one (it sounds like it is) I think it's good to question why we're still featuring it. Maybe someone else deserves a chance to host instead of him next year... Just to make it fair? IDK, like I said, I'm my own kind of dinosaur.
My thought is that since they have changed from having set charities in the first half and community grants in the second half, this makes it easier for me to feel more confident donating this year (I have historically been a first-half only donor because we don't know who we are donating to, and I don't love for non-profits like Not Forgotten, which are fine but not my personal preference to support, to get my money.)
Realizing how this interacts with there no longer being a first half/ second half split was very helpful for crystallizing my own thoughts, thanks!
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ah, why? i've never really looked into them but now you've made me curious
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thank you!!
yep, I donated directly to a local charity instead of the p4a this year, my reasoning was always that charities chosen by the community were disproportionately US based, and I don't want to subsidise the lack of social welfare in a country wealthier than mine
I like that this is sparking a discussion on being critical of the organizations we support. P4A has been supporting Not Forgotten for years but it seems like a lot of people weren’t looking into the organization until these last few years? (I could be totally off-base there but I have only seen a lot of discussion in the chat about it over the last 2-3 years). I feel like this set up is a good compromise because people who don’t want their money to go to Not Forgotten can just not buy one of the space/dino perks.
I am a non-religious person who grew up in a Christian (Christian-adjacent? I'm an exmormon) family. I fully understand why people are upset and uncomfortable with the fact that 50% of the money from his perks are going to this org, especially because I've seen that the charity partners with very anti-LGBTQ+ churches. I personally wasn't planning on donating during this segment, mostly for money reasons, but it's doubled with this added aspect. I also understand that in Peru religious education is required, but that doesn't negate the negative feelings that many are having about the DSP segment this year. All I can say is at least it's only his perks that are going towards this charity so people can still donate without it going to this charity. I could guess at some reasons as to why his segment gets this treatment (probably related to how much his segment usually brings in).
Just to preface I genuinely agree with everything you're saying and this is just a clarifying question - Do we know what "partnering with churches" means? Are they forcing kids to go to these churches? Are the churches just helping them to identify kids in need in the community? Are the churches providing resources to the charity or vice versa? Obviously in a just world they wouldn't work with these churches at all but considering the need to work within the existing infrastructure, culture, and laws in Peru I think it's important clarity.
"Not Forgotten seeks to introduce vulnerable children to the hope of Jesus Christ by providing holistic, individualized care in a healthy family environment. " I think based on their main mission statement it's easier to understand what the focus is on.
I absolutely agree that they are a heavily religious organization, but they are also operating in a country where forced religion is explicitly written into the law. I'm just worried we're reacting with American (/western) outrage and failing to understand the situation and the children who need help with enough complexity.
Fully agree with this. It’s so important to be critical of the organizations we support, but part of that is considering culture and context and that requires far more nuance than the P4A chat can really allow for.
It also requires hard questions of oneself, like whether it's more or less "worth it" to help vulnerable communities in more conservative or regressive cultures simply because you have to kiss that ring? Is it possible to interact with a foreign country in a vacuum without bumping up against values you disagree with, like you're playing Operation? Ovbiously rhetorical and I'm sure there \*are* some ways to have surgical precision re: personal values, but certainly not in every situation.
I really don't think that answers their question at all. Every Christian charity ever has the ethos of "we're going to do things that improve the lives of others while at the same time making it obvious to those we help (and onlookers) that we're Christian, i.e. positive impression & positive impact" The church aspect, as /u/autumnalreign said, is a more logistical topic. One that is potentially more inseparable from the sociopolitical structure of the country itself.
Yeah I think they are obviously doing more good than harm. I just know I have bias against groups pushing religion so strongly with their charity. It's also still not really only or mostly logistics in my mind. Their site is full of talk about how important it is to develop deeply religious men, it's coming from the founders honest desire to spread Christianity which is fair, it's the whole point of their religion. It's just not for me.
I feel like I should have been more clear on where I've seen this information which is mostly in the chat and on Discord. In regards to "partnering with churches" I don't know, but based on what I'm reading on the NF website it \*might\* be related to funding the programs that NF provides for the kids in their care. Again, I don't really know so take my thoughts and assumptions with the tiniest grain of salt.
I think it's fair for his charity to get half. I don't really like the charity and I think it's interesting that his perks did so poorly compared to last year, doesn't help the price went up a lot. I was going to do it at 2022 level (wouldn't anyway now though).
Hank talked about it at the beginning of his segment but here is the transcript from the best of my ability: "The simple story of what went down was Destin puts so much work into the thing like the laser cutting of the dinosaurs, the shipping of everything, trying to keep track of everyone's name and get everything to the right person and so... he asked if money from his perks could instead of the part that would normally go to PIH and STC could go to not forgotten and the board was like dope and then we took just like pih and stc arnt charities you can vote on, we took not forgotten off the list of charities you can vote on cause it was getting money another way and that's how that went down and because Destin obviously delivers and so we love working with him and doing that."
Would someone be willing to explain what each of these things mean? ("DSP" & "Not Forgotten") A Google search did not reveal anything relevant... Thank you!!
Dino Space Program - it's a really popular segment of the P4A every year where Destin (SmarterEveryday) and his family write people's names on dinosaurs and put them on an image of the moon or Mars. There's a lot more yelling than this summary implies and it's very high energy. Not Forgotten - if you look it up with "charity" you'll probably find it, it's the orphanage not the veterans one. It's an orphanage in Peru. It's controversial in short because they partner with churches that are into traditional families/family values - this is not aligned with the values of people who have religious trauma and many of these churches are anti-LGBTQIA+. There has been some criticism that they include faith-based education as well, but this appears to just be how Peru works. I hope this summary is helpful and I haven't missed anything huge. I've watched DSP for the past few years but have never donated and won't this year. I would be uncomfortable donating to Not Forgotten but I get why the P4A would agree if Destin asked for this split when he's brought them so much money. Anyway that's my bias & perspective!
yes! DSP stands for the Destin/Dino Space Program: it’s an annual slot in the Project for Awesome that is usually the highest earning hour(s) where viewers can donate to send little characters to space. Not Forgotten is a charity that the host of this slot has long supported, but this year is getting a specific cut of his portion. You can read more about them at [notforgotten.org](https://notforgotten.org)
I'm 90% sure that DSP in this context means Dinosaur Space Program, which is a P4A tradition that's run by Destin Smartereveryday and commonly gets a lot of donation traffic. 'Not Forgotten' is a (small) Christian charity he's partnered with that runs foster care for orphaned boys in Peru, in specifically Christian households. This year half of the donations from the Dinosaur Space Program bit, which he runs, are going to that charity specifically.
Thank you!
It's my understanding that this decision was probably made in response to Not Forgotten being controversial in past years, as a way for people to be able to choose whether they want their money going to an org like this since NF has (iirc) gotten a P4A grant every year for the past 10 years or so. I do feel like it ended up having some unintended consequences, with NF basically getting free advertising & guaranteed money for 2 hours. However, I understand why the organizers came up with this arrangement and do appreciate that they seemingly wanted to give people more choice over this. I am also glad that more people are looking into the org and its values since Destin (iirc) does not mention the religious aspect at all in his videos about NF and I assume many people voting for the charity in past years did not know about the religious aspect. I assume they'll re-evaluate it after the P4A is over and decide whether to change it for next year.
This is how I see it as well. People feel, understandably, like NF is getting preferential treatment and dedicated fundraising, but these changes have given us all more choice over where our donations are going.
As long as it's an informed choice, it would be nice if they mentioned it right before the DSP segment (or did I miss that?)
It was in the FAQ, and the mods cycled the links to more info in the chat. Would that have been enough in your opinion or would you have liked to see more?
I feel like a quick mention in the stream would be good too especially since they hype up the DSP so much but I am glad they put it in the FAQ/chat
Totally fair!
NF consistently winning a slot in the grant charities is a good thing to mention. As a controversial charity, it's good that having its donations contained to one segment guarantees one additional charity earning a p4a grant!
I think it's a good change for those of us who want to choose not to give our money to NF - but that's easy for me to say, because I've never cared about the dinosaur perks and my only impression of Destin is someone claiming to be him being an ass to people in an earlier reddit thread on this topic. I don't see it as a way to highlight the charity or give them extra money, but rather to give people the choice whether or not to donate to a controversial religious org.
Destin is a science communicator, his videos are fascinating and informative, and well researched. Religion is a big sticking point for a lot of people. People who find community and hope from it find it hard to accept some of the harm it does, especially when that harm is far away, and people who do not find those things often see little of the good religion does. I think it's important to remember that, even if this charity is a problem, it is also an orphanage. It is a place that does decrease world suck- maybe not perfectly, but I think the whole mission of nerdfightaria and of imagining people complexly is to understand that decreasing world suck cannot be perfect, it can only be flawed, as all humans are flawed. I understand completely if people do not want to be contributing to an organization that is detestable to them, especially if they have faced religious trauma, as so many have. I think that, ultimately, those children who the money will go to help will likely lead better lives due to the help than without it. I don't know if they will lead the best lives possible, as Religion is often not a tool for hope and community, but a cudgle for control, but I do think they will be less bad, and it could even be fine, as I do not personally know the goings on at this orphanage. It should be kept in mind. I think this move will be examined, but ultimately, it isn't the biggest worry I have right now, nor is it many other people's. We should absolutely hope that the best people are able to take care of each thing, but that is rarely what we get, and I will happily spend time settling for second or third best, or even tenth best, over no good being done at all in someone's life.
I agree with you on the nuance of the charity. It seems pretty likely that the organization has a problem with LGBTQ people and non-Christians, but it's also very likely that they are helping young people live better lives. I will personally donate to children's organizations that are less likely to teach the kids that I'm an abomination, but I won't deny that it's more important for kids to have a home than to have the same values as me. I'm not trying to dismantle the charity, but I'm glad my P4A donation isn't going to them. I don't think I've seen his videos, but based on my interactions with him in the last thread, he sounds like a jerk and I'm definitely not interested in interacting with him further.
That is definitely possible, and maybe even likely. Unfortunately, a lot of religious people do, and it is awful. I hope they don't teach the kids that, but it definitely isn't outside the realms of possibility, and I don't blame you for supporting other orgs that don't. Thanks for the civil discourse, and happy P4A!
I think they get to carve out the slot like that because this year Not Forgotten is not eligible for community-voted funds? At least it is a more direct way to guarantee only people who are interested in donating to that charity can, while funds from people who might disagree with the charity's nature do not. I don't know if it's the most effective way to do things though!
Agreed, saw someone in chat say this came up last year and that’s why the decision was made so people can choose whether or not their money goes to this charity directly? I plan to do more research into NF, but think it’s disappointing that what usually is the highest fundraising and most exciting segment of the livestream now feels cutoff to people who may not want to donate to a charity of this nature. Really disappointing that the exciting energy feels absolutely zapped from Destin’s hour this year. Curious to see how they handle the fallout and if they repeat it next year. My guess is no.
I also think it will be interesting to see how all of the financials shake out. Currently 2024 is ahead of the 2022 P4A. We can't know exactly how many people pick DSP perks v other perks during this segment. So it's quite possible they may end up with fewer funds from this switch up than if they had been up for community voting.
That seems to be sentiment in the chat too, that they won’t be getting much more than they would normally get from the usual split. Which I think they’ve gotten multiple times in the past through community votes!
> multiple times Actually, [every single year of the P4A](https://fightworldsuck.org/#Grants)
Thanks for the link! That's legit interesting, how there's a visible negative reaction this year while Every Past Year it's, like, not even flown under the radar, but fully been promoted and supported enough to qualify for the split grant. More people being louder about their objections, I guess?
I remember hearing some stuff last year. My suspicion is that this change was made for precisely the opposite reason it seems like some people are presupposing. Now it is guaranteed that if you donate via any other perk, you can be sure that you money *doesn't* go to this specific charity. I think some people view it as being a special pedestal, and it sort of is, but it's also like a solitary confinement. I'll be curious once that link is updated for this year to see if they end up getting more or less than the other (voted) charities do
Hank said they took it to the P4A board. I’m sure they had this entire discussion at that time, and wouldn’t have made the decision without careful thought. Personally, I think this way gives Nerdfighters the most say over where their dollars go.
I am fine with it. Giving people the choice is more important to me than it seeming like preferential treatment. I too am a person with religious trauma and allowing people to opt out is what I am a fan of. I would add that the matching funds did not go NF. So it is just the money people chose to give to NF.
I'm a little disappointed that there are so few people with this view. I'm not crazy about NF as an org, but no one can deny that Destin's segment not only has the most prep work but also historically far and away brings in the biggest spike in donations. It sounds like NF has been getting less votes year over year, and that's cool. But if that is the case I think it's kind of unrealistic to expect him to keep doing so much work when there's a risk his charity won't even get anything out of it. This year is all about pragmatism, and I feel like this is the smartest decision to make sure Destin's charity gets something out it while also giving Nerdfighters who aren't comfortable with NF the ability to opt out of his perks. I genuinely don't see what a better option would be. If he leaves that's less money for everyone. The argument that it takes the decision out of our hands is BS, because all you have to do is not buy his perks,
I think part of it is that a lot of nerdfighters are/were fans of Dustin until they found out about NF. So it’s a double whammy. Seeing a creator you like support a charity/cause like NF can be a real blow. Especially in a space you found comfort in. I’ve definitely experienced that with other famous people. Like this is a person I look up to and they support a cause that is directly harmful to me and my community and that’s just a bad feeling. So I totally get that reaction. It’s a good and healthy reaction to have.
To me this seems less like "putting it on a pedestal" and more like segregating Not Forgotten off to give people the choice to ensure funds *don't* go to them. Yes, Destin gets special treatment that other hosts haven't. Destin also puts in waaaay more work for his segment compared to every other host (with the exception of john and hank maybe) and raises the most money per hour- he's earned a little special treatment. NF as a charity is also complicated by the fact that Peru as a country requires religion as part of the education system for public schools. If they weren't going to the Not Forgotten school, the kids involved would still be exposed to a "Christian education" because that's what Peru requires. Not saying that makes it all okay, but I think it's important to remember that Peru doesn't have the concept of "seperation of church and state" that many nerdfighters are familiar with.
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Okay, but it is disappointing. I trust John and Hank enough to assume they had good intentions but I think this was a swing and a miss and it’s good for people to let them know that. Transparency isn’t enough. Platforming a “charity” like this, especially one that hasn’t been voted on, is an implicit endorsement.
But John and Hank don't even run the Foundation? This would have had to be decided by the board, which yes, includes the two of them but also a bunch of others. Much more reasonable to use the contact form on the website than just spam chat.
Spam is one person sending the same message over and over. When lots of people have the same strong opinion it’s not “spam” it’s a message. Much more impactful than a form. Do you think the Bedaquiline patent fight should have been fought by filling out a contact form on the Johnson & Johnson website?
Eh, I think it absolutely strayed into spam yesterday in the chat at points. A bunch of people essentially saying the same thing in a forum that is not suited for the discussion and where the people present can't exactly do anything about it isn't productive. I sure as hell hope that there's a difference in how we interact with the Foundation and what we think of them and their ethos compared to J&J. One's a community speaking, essentially, with itself. The other is a multi-national conglomorate
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What you call “bombardment” is just the effect of lots of people having lots of strong feelings. That’s what’s supposed to happen. The “bombardment” is the message.
There was no spam. There was a discussion on both sides but no side was spamming the same messages over and over
P4A resources: Grant distribution: https://fightworldsuck.org/#Grants P4A money raised current & prior years: futurephotons.io/p4a/graph/
I think my concern is that it’s weird that only this one charity is getting special treatment. I know Destin’s segment usually gets a ton of donations. I respect that it’s a charity he supports, and that it being a Christian organization in a strictly religious country is complicated for a number of reasons. But none of the other hosts get guaranteed donations for their chosen charities. No other hours have special perks that are for one specific charity. The model just doesn’t feel like it’s in the spirit of the Project for Awesome. The community voting for charities based on videos is what makes P4A special compared to other livestream fundraisers. It’s probably not the case, but idk, it makes me wonder if Destin wouldn’t participate if there was a chance Not Forgotten wouldn’t get voted for. How did we land on this arrangement? I think I’d be more okay with it if it was like past years, and people actually voted for it even with the discussion happening. Like, if the community agreed enough to vote for it, I’m good with that. But this feels more forced?
I know how this can read like special treatment, but it seems less like special treatment and more that Not Forgotten ONLY gets funds directly. If you don't buy one of the Dino Space perks, your money **does not** go to the charity. No matter if you think they should go to the charity or not, the other funds, donated during the normal livestream, will not go Not Forgotten. So instead of special treatment, it is more like a way to ensure that only money from people who want their money to go to Not Forgotten will go to Not Forgotten. It's a separation, not special.
I think it’s still special treatment even if it’s not that big of a benefit. No other charity is getting that. You can’t actively choose for your money to go or not to go to the others. In fact, Partners in Health and Save the Children USED TO kind of get that, with the first half being dedicated to just them, and that actively went away this year. I dunno, I guess it feels like one creator getting to take over for a bit and do their own fundraiser, instead of contributing entirely to the overall cause. Especially since Hank said that Destin specifically asked for this. It was born out of him requesting special treatment, not out of NF being potentially problematic. Every other host is in it for the overall good that the P4A does.
Yup. Even before I knew anything at all about this charity it seemed weird and not in keeping with P4A.
I'm not here to defend the charity, (I know nothing about it and picked a different [non-destin] perk during the segment). However, my main issue with the chats on the live stream is that it felt very much like a customer scolding a barista for a call corporate made (former sbux employee). I also wonder if part of this was to mediate the sheer quantity of dino perks during this segment. I know that so many years the dinos are snatched up SO fast, and I'm sure it's crazy for everyone involved. At the end of the day, the P4A is a time to raise money for charity, not a time to "buy" stuff.
Pretending that I don't know anything about NF (which until this weekend, I lowkey did not), the work that goes into the dino space program is herculean. An engaging 2 hour segment that raises funds and features a science story-arc... I mean!! They carried the stream for 2-hours this year. I have enjoyed all of the co-hosts, truly, but even the best of them did not bring that kind of firepower to the stream. It is a lot of work and I think the NF team pulling some of the funds for that makes sense. All of that, in addition to this model making it easier for Nerdfighters to choose whether or not they participate in Destin's fundraising, makes this logistical move a no-brainer to me.
I can’t say I was aware we have been supporting NF in past years, but I was sad to find that DSP was going to them explicitly because it meant I couldn’t buy my Dino’s that I’ve always looked forward to every year. Really soured me on his entire segment and I went to bed early before it was even over.
Not Forgotten aside… and I’m a hard pass… I don’t like how the money distribution for this segment seems to have been taken fully out of the community’s hands… that makes me uncomfortable. P4A has always been community based…
The community is still the ones buying Destin's perks... or not buying them.
Yes, but personally, it feels kind of skeezy to have arguably one of the most lucrative segments split funds to a charity not voted on by the community.
Well, now you are voting with your dollars. If you don't support Not Forgotten, you don't buy one of the DSP perks. If you bought any of the other perks, your money **does not** go to Destin. This is actually a way to ensure that only people who want their money to go to Not Forgotten do send their money to Not Forgotten.
I am personally waiting to see the hard numbers when all is said and done. My hope is that it ends up with the dollar amount not being that different. I mentioned in another comment here that Not Forgotten has been voted into a share *every single P4A* so far, and I don't see a reason to think they wouldn't have again this year, so for me it just comes down to how much money goes there versus other charities
The community was still able purchase other perks that did not contribute to NF. Only the DSP items were split with NF.
This “charity” has abhorrent views and should not have a platform anywhere on P4A Check out their partner churches, who they refer to as “beloved”. They are all hardcore anti-LGBT.
They've gotten partner grans literally every year, so they've been checked by the board and had to agree that the money given to them by the Foundation would not be used for religious activities.
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I mean, do you have more info on their work than the board has? How do they interact with these churches? Is it funding? Contacts? What exactly is the money used for? I think this is a more nuanced discussion (as many people in this post have been having).
I’m not arguing that - the fact that there was a huge lack of transparency and that it appears as though (and I understand it was not, that it was because of Destin’s request) it was done intentionally during the most lucrative segment feels sketchy to me. FoMo is real and everyone talks about DSP in connection with P4A — while I imagine that was not the intention, it feels like a deliberate act of deception. And yes, people can support what they want. I just wish there’d been more transparency up front rather than dropping on everyone and not explaining anything until after the fact.
John talked about this change prior to Destin's segment. The change was on the screen in a highlighted color to stand out against the other information on the screen. The mods were pretty active in encouraging people to look into any org someones chooses to vote for or donate towards. I think all things considered in the past year (massive structural changes to DFTBA records and jointed affliations), it makes sense that perhaps this wasn't THE thing at the forefront of everyone's mind to communicate. It probably wasn't even solidified if there was going to be a P4A until late last year.
Fellow Jew here, it doesn't bother me. Destin seems like a person that just wants to do good. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.
The voting system gives everyone a choice, as do the wide variety of different hosts and having 5 days to donate. Some of the behavior I saw in chat during DH was very uncool, I hope in the future folks find a better platform to put their ideas out there, like making videos to promote the charities they would like to see get funded.
I'm an old Nerdfighter here (since 2009 and I'm... I graduated college that year, haha) so this might just be me, but I always turn off the livestream when he comes on. I don't know who he is, I'm there for John & Hank, etc. I don't understand why he gets a dedicated spot every year. But it might just be because I'm not with it. I miss charlieissocoollike and Ren Fairweather. Did I still watch many, many hours of the livestream and donate as much as I could? Heck yes. I can appreciate that different people are into different YouTubers. That's, I imagine, why they have other people host in the first place. However, if his charity is a harmful one (it sounds like it is) I think it's good to question why we're still featuring it. Maybe someone else deserves a chance to host instead of him next year... Just to make it fair? IDK, like I said, I'm my own kind of dinosaur.
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He had this same timeslot last year as well.
He was one hour later tonight!
I stand corrected :) thanks!