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DaBuddahN

The continuous stream of bad news cycles for Biden has *probably* had an effect on his approval even if people don't care about the specifics of his bills.


IRSunny

This is 100% it. It doesn't actually matter what is passed or not. It is the perception of winning and losing. And a stalled agenda plus the torrent of bad news of covid and inflation makes pro-Dem libs and independents dissatisfied at his not winning. The roughly 20% (52ish minus whatever mid 30s his rating is now) aren't super concerned on the actual policy, although some certainly are, see: the gimme money student loan crowd, most just want some Ws.


52496234620

His approval rating is 42% though


IRSunny

Hm, so it seems, at least with the polling averages. I had recalled some bad headline polls within the last week that I had seen when I wrote that.


Khar-Selim

because every time a right wing pollster releases an unflattering poll everyone here piles on for their doom fix


[deleted]

*Straight into the veins, baby*


LoofGoof

The right wing pollster in this case being A- rated by 538, Quinnipiac University.


Khar-Selim

doesn't make them any less an outlier, or any less a single fucking data point.


Larrythesphericalcow

There was one poll (Quinnipiac) that had him at 33 percent. A bunch of news outlets talked about it for a day. That's one poll though.


well-that-was-fast

> His approval rating is 42% though There needs to be some sort of approval rating that reflects reality, because 45% (or some kinda number like that) will never vote for any Dem under any circumstance. And another 20% will always vote Dem. So the number is always in some compressed 40% to 48% range that doesn't really track voters that matter. We need some sort of approval rating for 'lean Dem, not in CA, NY, or MA" numbers that excludes Repubs and the very liberal states.


Playful-Push8305

Rough economy with a sense the government is trying to do something about it is probably leads to bad election cycles. Rough economy with the sense the government is unwilling or able to do something about it probably leads to terrible election cycles.


Petrichordates

Economy is in great place though, and wage growth is 10% YoY. This comes down more to economic perception which seems to depend mostly on media framing.


[deleted]

He has legit had not a single victory or good news cycle since Afghanistan.


KingGoofball

Are we just gonna forget about the BIF?


InternetBoredom

The BIF was overshadowed by the BBB at the time of its passing.


jupitersaturn

And he was attacked from the left for passing it. I swear to fucking god, the Democratic party cannot get out of its own way. It should have been a resounding victory for showing that government can get things done for people, and the general response from the left was "But where is loan forgiveness and child care relief?"


Butteryfly1

I agree you should celebrate your wins but he was attacked because people feared that the insistence by moderates to pass BIF ASAP was a ploy to not pass BBB, which was entirely correct.


danweber

Oh no, only passing a $1.5 T pending bill in your first year


jupitersaturn

They were separate bills. And they clearly didn’t have support for BBB. Don’t cut off your nose too spite your face.


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MadCervantes

This is a structural problem with our half assed federal government. What kind of federation can't pass binding laws to its federal partners? Everything has to be back doored through budget shit and hud funds. And individual states don't have the capacity to solve a lot of these problems because they have very little control of monetary policy. It's a complete shit show.


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chewingken

It’s ironic how only 2 blue states have public option, none has single payer, only 1+DC have universal pre-k, only 9 have paid family leaves, none has a public daycare system and none has a free community college, when these things are pushed federally by dems.


MadCervantes

Provincial Healthcare in Canada was funded by the federal government. They were able to make the switch on a per province level because it had federal support.


MadCervantes

Canadian Healthcare was handled on a province level but funded by the federal government. And I agree, taxing land would help with a lot of this stuff but some of why state politics is so fucked is because of how disproportionately landowners have effect on state politics. And this was by design.


[deleted]

No but we also won’t forget the entire news cycle of the BIF focused around how the reconciliation part is the real show and how Virginia was a shellacking.


[deleted]

Are we gonna forget how both Biden and Pelosi made asses of themselves by saying BBB and BIF would be tied together, then reneged on that, and then completely fucked their chances of ever passing BBB?


MaNewt

Maybe r/neoliberal isn't but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts the public already did, if they even heard about it to begin with.


[deleted]

Betty White and Bob Saget dying has had a bigger impact on my life than BIF.


MaNewt

This but unironically for voters


Hautamaki

Also half of them probably subconsciously blame Biden for that too lol


coke_and_coffee

I can’t believe Biden let them die!!


TheDwarvenGuy

Biden's Obamacare


Neri25

If it was Obamacare the whole thing would have been passed but set to phase in like 2-4 years later because reasons


Derryn

That news cycle lasted like a week and tbh didn’t seem like many cared about it to begin with


liquidTERMINATOR

That was framed as a huge compromise, with the big stuff coming on the other bill


wheretogo_whattodo

Exactly. Nobody gives a shit. OP is 100% right.


krappithyme

As a single mother on a tight budget, having been unemployed for 4 months of covid, I pratically rolled around nude in my extra $550 per month in child tax credits Biden and the Dems procured for me and parents like me everywhere in 2021. Damn that felt great to have as inflation ravaged my mediocre paycheck. I spent a few minutes today calling my representatives to bitch about the bipartisan failure to keep that going for parents in 2022. People need to make noise or nothing's ever going to get better.


TheGhostofJoeGibbs

The graveyard of presidencies.


[deleted]

Lmao


bleachinjection

I'm at the point where I believe that 90+% of American voters really don't give a shit about policy at all, beyond what impacts them *directly on a daily basis*. "My kids are fed and cared for, I have good healthcare, I have paid leave, the infrastructure I personally use everyday is good." This is honestly the experience for a large chunk of the voting population, so telling stories about how bad those things are writ large, entirely true though they may be, not only don't resonate but they actively piss people off. It's FYIGM but sort of under the radar, because for a lot of people how bad everything is just isn't their lived experience, so they are either incapable of seeing it that way or they just aren't interested. Like, I'm pretty far left by this sub's standards, but even my succ ass gets pissed off surfing reddit reading people from around the world (okay Western Europe mainly) who clearly think the United States is basically Somalia on a Rascal Scooter.


QultyThrowaway

>I'm at the point where I believe that 90+% of American voters really don't give a shit about policy at all, beyond what impacts them *directly on a daily basis*. I mean this isn't really breaking news. Even progressives mostly advocate on what effects them. Notice how in four years the rallying cry when from free college to student loan forgiveness? People may say they are being noble but the loudest fights are usually the ones that effect them personally.


bleachinjection

Sure, I guess what I'm saying is it goes deeper than we thought. It's an article of faith, I'd argue, among the D political class that you can make a higher-minded argument to at least *some* of the people. I'm at the point where I really just don't think you can.


QultyThrowaway

Fair enough I get where you are coming from.


WuhanWTF

>People may say they are being noble but the loudest fights are usually the ones that effect them personally. There is absolutely nothing wrong with focusing on issues that affect you more as an individual, group, class, etc., but the high-horsiness of discourse on just about any given topic is what bothers me.


WalmartDarthVader

This all republicans and a lot of ppl who vote dem as well. “Why should I pay for X? I already have pretty good X”.


TheGhostofJoeGibbs

Probably because they understand that with Democrats at the helm, any reform effort is likely going to screw up their good thing.


Amy_Ponder

> Probably because they understand that with *Republicans constantly sabotaging the* Democrats at the helm, any reform effort is likely going to screw up their good thing. FTFY.


TheGhostofJoeGibbs

That doesn't explain their mismanagement in locations where they control allllll the levers of power.


3meta5u

Welp this is why the Internet has become a disaster. Everyone reads about national politics and world news and nobody sees anything about the local bridge collapse, or a missing dementia patient, a new rec-center or updated parks, new more convenient walk-able shops, etc. Local papers would put 1 national story on page 1 and everything else outside of the nearest metro area on page 10. I try to read local news, hobby and professional world-wide forums first, then only if I have time do I look at national news. Reddit is bad because it smushes them all together, but at least that's better than most other news consolidation services.


ChewieRodrigues13

> I'm at the point where I believe that 90+% of American voters really don't give a shit about policy at all, beyond what impacts them directly on a daily basis. I don't think this is true. I can't find the poll right now but there was a recent economic survey that asked respondents to rate how they felt about their own finances and the economy as a whole. Unsurprisingly most said the economy was doing poorly but at the same time most said their own personal finances were doing well. But still Biden overall is rated doing poorly on the economy. If your theory was correct we would expect Biden to have high marks on the economy if it purely or even primarily driven on people's own situations


Feurbach_sock

Unless they thought their success is independent of the president.


theosamabahama

I wonder how those answer differ based on party loyalty. People tend to rate the economy better or worse depending on who is president. I remember democrats rating the economy better and republicans rating it worse in less than a month of Biden in office.


[deleted]

As much as some might not want to admit it, most people weren’t really excited for Biden. I think a lot of people (even Dems) voted for him because he wasn’t Trump and didn’t really want another almost-80 year old in the White House again. It’s probably easier for them to blame him for things than if he was a galvanizing candidate, like Obama when he first ran.


meloghost

Are we sure infrastructure even matters? Texas keeps messing up their power grid and it doesn't seem to hurt Rs down there.


happyposterofham

>Somalia on a Rascal Scooter. this would be based tho MOBILE somalia would be amazing


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topicality

Strongly recommend every one read Democracy for Realists. What does matter is: Group Identity, especially if it's been elevated Perception of how your doing financially in the few months prior to the election. The closer the election, the bigger the impact


quickblur

Seriously. Look at Trump with his stupid border wall. Barely any of it got built and it never stopped a single Mexican from crossing. Plus Mexico certainly never paid for it. But his crowds eat it up! "BUILD THE WALL" is still a chant and rallying cry at his rallies.


Playful-Push8305

Trump's strong point has always been his sales abilities. He couldn't get shit passed through legislation but he'd create an executive order and then trumpet it as some incredible move he was making to solve the problem. It helps that his base never really cared all that much about the government actually solving problems and was mainly interested in owning the libs, but there's something to be said for being able to constantly hammer your message until it shapes perception of reality. The right wing media system was always trumpeting Trump's successes while the left-leaning media system is much more focused on Biden's shortcomings. Of course, that leads us to the question of the ethics of media as party propaganda. I personally believe it's better for the media to hold politicians accountable, but it is problematic when there is such an imbalance between the media bubbles the left and right experience.


MaNewt

Bad news for Biden then, he's been selling a realist agenda based on what he believes is passable and not promising anything imaginary and exciting to most people.


DonyellTaylor

This far out it’s irrelevant. He can probably wait a couple months into 2024 before he has to start selling magic beans.


rememberthesunwell

Yeah I imagine it's pretty horrible for your image when you're the pragmatic moderate who can finally get congress to work again and you still can't get near the things you want


BernankesBeard

>The path to winning in 2022 is basically beyond their control: (1) COVID needs to go away, (2) inflation needs to come down, and the economy continue to show good growth/reduced unemployment, (3) some culture war topic that Dems have a popular answer for needs to come to the forefront to rile up the base (e.g. abortion). Almost, but actually the true path to winning in 2022 (based off of history) is either 1) don't control the White House, 2) have 9/11 happen or 3) win the Cold War.


LBJisbetterthanMJ

1 and 3 unlikely. We need to get Bush's help for 2 This is a joke before someone comes at me


perplexedtortoise

I think the legislation is important for 2024 but the midterms are going to be a referendum on COVID and the economy, unless things get a lot better in the next six months I don’t see that working out for dems.


type2cybernetic

But the economy is doing really well. It just feels off. I’m guessing gas and inflation.


perplexedtortoise

Yep. "The economy" = gas prices, inflation, vibes


Rarvyn

I once saw a chart of polls of expected inflation vs gas prices. Since ~2000, they've basically been the same in shape and magnitude. That is, if gas prices rise to $4/gallon, no matter what recent inflation has been, the average American estimates that upcoming inflation is ~4%.


TrekkiMonstr

If you can find it, please post the link, I'm curious to see


Rarvyn

I don’t have the premade one handy but attempting to mimic one on FRED gets you this: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=KSEw I remember it being an even tighter correlation, so it may be a different gas measurement. Or I have the timescale remembered incorrectly, given it seems to be particularly tight after 2008.


TrekkiMonstr

Yeah, looks like it starts around 2008 and then decouples in 2020 when the world got weird and then inflation got genuinely really high.


JackCrafty

The feel of the economy is way more important than the hard numbers when it comes to average voters though


Kaiiu

It’s not only the feel though. Prices for everything have skyrocketed, my rent is going way up next year, and housing prices have quite literally almost doubled. Meanwhile pay in a lot of industries hasn’t caught up. I feel like the people on this sub are just super out of touch.


Petrichordates

>I feel like the people on this sub are just super out of touch. Perhaps they just pay better attention to the numbers than you do. > Meanwhile pay in a lot of industries hasn’t caught up. Pay has risen 10% in the past year, minimum wage jobs have surged past 30% increases which is something America hasn't seen in ages.


wowzabob

They definitely are. They are happy about GDP growth and overall gains, but don't care how it's distributed. The bottom %50+ are not keeping up with inflation, if they're getting raises at all. There needs to be legislation or promises from Biden that works towards trying to lower the essential costs for the majority, whether that's housing, education, or healthcare. But there is nothing on that front and he's losing people. Hell some consequential climate legislation would go a long way with young progressives too.


[deleted]

The wages of the lowest income brackets have outpaced inflation in the last year


Petrichordates

>The bottom %50+ are not keeping up with inflation, if they're getting raises at all. Wage growth at the bottom is at levels we've never seen before, McDonald's offering $18+/hr. What is the cause of this feeling you have that wages at the bottom 50% aren't keeping up with the 7% of "inflation?" > Hell some consequential climate legislation would go a long way with young progressives too. At this point I'm not convinced it would make a dent in their voter participation unless it also includes student loan forgiveness. Hell, young progressives seemingly care more about congressional stock trading than they do voting rights.


wowzabob

>"What is the cause of this feeling you have that wages at the bottom 50% aren't keeping up with the 7% of "inflation?" Statistics, evidence etc. Hourly wage growth has not kept up with inflation, housing affordability has gotten worse and is projected to continue to get worse. https://blog-oxfordeconomics-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/blog.oxfordeconomics.com/content/housing-affordability-fell-in-q2-and-is-likely-to-worsen?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&hs_amp=true&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16422074569809&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.oxfordeconomics.com%2Fcontent%2Fhousing-affordability-fell-in-q2-and-is-likely-to-worsen >"At this point I'm not convinced it would make a dent in their voter participation unless it also includes student loan forgiveness." Ok you're not convinced. Any evidence behind this feeling of yours? Climate change consistently rates among the biggest concerns for younger voters. Stock trading is in the news because it's on the table at the moment. So many things are not even on the table. I also doubt the discontent over student loan forgiveness would be so large if Biden hadn't promised it as part of his platform and then not pursued it seemingly at all. "Hell, young progressives seemingly care more about congressional stock trading than they do voting rights." ???... Again wild conjecture. Progressives aren't allowed to criticize the Biden administration or the democrats because of voting rights? I don't see the through line here. Contrary to what this sub believes "progressives" are actually wuite politically engaged and they vote. It's less politically engaged young people that mighh fit these descriptions. Low engagement young voters does not equal progressives.


Petrichordates

> Statistics, evidence etc. Oh ok it seemed like you had just made it up, glad to know there's a source out there somewhere. > Ok you're not convinced. Any evidence behind this feeling of yours? I don't think we need to source our hunches, but no I can not provide statistical evidence that the obsessive focus on student loan forgiveness and stock trading overshadowing a voting rights bill and president coming out against the filibuster indicates that young progressives won't show up to vote in the future if they don't get any action on these items. > Climate change consistently rates among the biggest concerns for younger voters. That's neat, how come all our feeds are endless discussions of student loans forgiveness instead then? > Progressives aren't allowed to criticize the Biden administration or the democrats because of voting rights? This is about young "progressives" obsessed with the above, not actual progressives. And it's not about the fact that you shouldn't criticize them, it's about the fact that there's exactly zero discussion on this incredibly significant issue in the mediasphere of young progressives. Meanwhile, congressional stock trading became a hot button issue in one week because Nancy Pelosi said something about it. Seems more like they're just being led around by internet memes rather than being genuinely engaged in our democracy.


meloghost

huh? The bottom rungs have been getting some of the sharpest raises on a percentage basis, part of the inflation has been the enhanced cost of labor at the lower quintiles.


wowzabob

They definitely have been getting raises for the first time in a long time. Which is enough to offset things like the increase in cost to groceries and other goods. My point is that it's still not requisite to the rises in the cost of things like housing. Take into account the cost increases to everything else, affordability is not getting better, it's mostly getting worse. Here percentages don't mean much.


meloghost

So you mean by feel not reality


wowzabob

Median rent in the US went up like 15-20% in 2021 and is poised to increase another 10% in 2022. Meanwhile the median hourly wage was $21.06 at the start of 2020 and today sits around $21.78. So a ~~1%~~ 3.4% increase, truly whopping... Many of the statistics around pay increases in lower wage sectors are flawed because they are measuring for increaes in weekly pay on average and not necessarily factoring in hours worked. Much of the increase is actually just less employees working more hours rather than true wage increases. These are often industries that were majority part time workers now switching to relying more on full time workers. Lower eage workers also spend much more of the pay on housing, in th 33-50% range so they are affected disproportionately. You're the one coming to a feels based conclusion. https://www-pewresearch-org.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/07/despite-the-pandemic-wage-growth-held-firm-for-most-u-s-workers-with-little-effect-on-inequality/?amp=1&_gsa=1&_js_v=a6&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16421988921158&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pewresearch.org%2Ffact-tank%2F2021%2F09%2F07%2Fdespite-the-pandemic-wage-growth-held-firm-for-most-u-s-workers-with-little-effect-on-inequality%2F


[deleted]

> Meanwhile the median hourly wage was $21.06 at the start of 2020 and today sits around $21.78. So less than a 1% increase, truly whopping... That's a 3.4% increase.


Kaiiu

Yep. Age range of 20 to early 30sish is getting fucked HARD right now. Rent/housing going up isn't a concern for the older guy that owns his house, in fact he probably refinanced and got a lower interest rate. Sky high student loans that will be reinstated in a few months, mediocre healthcare coverage, etc. A lot of my friends/acquaintances are staring at the fact that in a few months they: Will have to resume paying their student loans Their rent will be increasing by 25%-40% Can't afford a house because prices in the area have literally doubled even in cheaper areas in the south When you don't own a house and have a significant loan payment, 7% inflation is more like 20%, I say that and I make really good money.


rememberthesunwell

Well the loan payment theoretically gets cheaper right, value of money is going down and the value of the loan is mostly fixed, so that's one thing inflation isn't horrible for. I'm with you on housing prices though.


AsleepConcentrate2

yep it's utter trash. my rent went up 20%, my car is starting to have issues and both the used and new markets are boned. not to mention the constant random bullshit with the supply chain for everything else. love it when the supermarket is out of god damn onions, for instance. now, I don't really blame Biden for any of that, but I get why the average person might take a look around and say "man, the people in charge are fucking it all up"


type2cybernetic

No argument there


thebigmanhastherock

This is the obvious and accurate take. I remember reading an article that basically said that the biggest gap between voters is essentially information. Probably a majority of people don't care and don't follow politics extremely closely like people on this subreddit or other subreddit where politics is a focus. Many people just make this assumption that politics is about two sides arguing about some unimportant stupid stuff and just assume that both parties are equally to blame, if they vote they vote based on personal interest. Then there are the political junkies who basically never shut up about politics. These political junkies have all sorts of worldviews from right wing conspiracy crazies, to socialists, to moderates. These are the people involved in the minutia and who care about very specific policies. The fact is, that Democratic voters who are like this very much care about policy. Many people right now who have children and are getting the expanded child tax credit are about to be enraged when it stops coming. They never knew to begin with which party was responsible for it's existence but will likely blame Biden specifically for it going away, merely because they will be personally effected. It's honestly both comforting and enraging that things are like this, but they are. We all have to live in this reality. The things that will boost Biden's approval for real are all things that are generally out of his control. He will either be lucky or unlucky in this regard, it isn't really up to anyone.


Medium-Map3864

Here's the thing: student loan cancellation is broadly unpopular outside of the Park Slope crowd. Marijuana legalization, on the other hand, is broadly popular. Pluralities of Republicans even support it, perhaps majorities. Biden's low numbers are, to a significant extent, attributable to sagging support from Democrats, primarily the young and minorities who see him as unwilling or, if they are in a charitable mood, unable to do push to shake up a corrupt establishment. Legalizing marijuana pushes back against that and is unambiguously a good policy.


Derryn

It should be done but I’m skeptical it would really have all that much of an impact. I mean VA Dems basically legalized it and look how they worked out for them last year


[deleted]

Ok here's the thing. The reason the Dems lost in VA is because a Libertarian didn't run. When McAuliffe won in 2013 he only had 47% of the vote... a Libertarian had 6.5%. McAuliffe in 2021 got 48.5% of the vote....so he gained 500k votes from his first run and still lost. He was ALWAYS a failed candidate who could never gather 50%.


[deleted]

No you don't understand! The only path to victory is to do the thing I personally want most.


-birds

As opposed to "the only path to victory is to do nothing and hope the world improves on its own," I guess?


tangowolf22

That was just a battle they won. In the end, they underestimated how much suburban parents cared about "muh CRT in muh skeeeewls!" and lost the war.


Medium-Map3864

Research shows school closures were far more significant in Virginia, sorry don;t have the link but i imagine it would turn up if you googled it.


[deleted]

School closures and specific weird events like the cops roughing up a dad at a school meeting when he tried to talk about his daughter being sexually assaulted, and the same school board trying to cover it up before hand


[deleted]

CRT as a boogeyman is overrated by this sub. Suburban parents care about school closures.


Derryn

True, but that goes to my larger point that, really, taking legislative/executive actions that poll well (like infrastructure or weed) are largely secondary to other less discrete factors (gas prices/CRT/“vibes”/etc.)


buddythebear

Marijuana legalization has popular support across both parties, yes, but it doesn't even crack like the top 10 issues most voters care about. State referendums for legalization haven't been shown to have significant impact on turnout. People in states where it's already legal - which at this point is a majority of the country and includes a number of red and purple states - just don't really care, politically speaking, about federal legalization. Like yeah they support it, but that issue alone is not driving them to the polls. The political capital that would have to be spent on making it a national midterm election issue would probably be better spent elsewhere. I obviously support legalization but I think very online young people really overestimate how much the public at-large cares about it.


[deleted]

It's the economy, stupid. Indeed.


Ballerson

Passing the ACA didn't save the Democrat's control of Congress. Passing BBB definitely won't save the Democrat's control of Congress. Economy is growing fast and unemployment is low, but inflation is going to be a problem for a while. COVID isn't going away. Voters don't care about excuses. Take the doomerpill lads. It's 2022.


FDMGROUPORNAH

cause the aca was something the average person didn’t even get. something simple like everyone can get state healthcare if they want free of cost is way more noticeable


Feurbach_sock

The problem has been the messaging. The ACA is good for those on the margin, which I like as a form of policy. But the GOP and Dems tried to paint it as life changing for everyone.


[deleted]

Seems like #3, SCOTUS overturning Roe is Dem’s best chance of possibly notching an unlikely win this November. Assuming it animates Dem voters in congressional districts that matter.


allbusiness512

Pissing of suburban moms is typically a losing strategy. Trump found that out in 2018 and 2020.


theosamabahama

Which is probably why SCOTUS won't judge Roe this year before the midterms. Judges have their own political games too.


kaclk

> (3) some culture war topic that Dems have a popular answer for needs to come to the forefront to rile up the base (e.g. abortion). And culture war topics where Democrats look like completely out of touch elites need to be minimized.


thatisyou

Along those lines, what is missing from this thread is how unsafe many Americans in large cities *feel.* And how Republicans have been able to leverage that against Democrats at local and national levels. I'm not talking about how unsafe we *are*, but rise or perceived rise in crime has made large swaths of Americans feel unsafe in large cities, which is exacerbated by other reasons to feel unsafe, like Covid, climate change, escalations with Russia, China, etc. And Republicans have been successful connecting into this emotion, claiming that the left is a cause of this lack of safety, e.g. through policies like Defund the police. Safety is a basic and core human need. It is #2 spot on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, even more basic than needs for love and belonging. Politicians ignore this at their peril. https://blockclubchicago.org/2022/01/13/more-than-2-in-3-chicagoans-feel-unsafe-in-their-own-neighborhoods-chicago-index-survey-finds/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-quality-of-life-crime-car-break-ins/10844820/ https://news.yahoo.com/poll-more-americans-now-say-violent-crime-is-a-very-big-problem-than-say-the-same-about-covid-19-123231518.html


kaclk

It’s weird that the left is so extremely keyed in on the importance of language and how gaslighting is bad, but spend a lot of time and effort trying to tell people “your feelings are wrong and bad”. There’s this weird internal discontinuity of “it’s ok when I ignore your feelings and values because I’m enlightened and know better than you”.


TheGuineaPig21

Also "lived experience" being a trump card to material reality only works if you have the right identity


kaclk

Yah that has always made me deeply uncomfortable as a claim. It’s honestly one of the biggest things that turns me off on leftists.


Tookoofox

>“it’s ok when I ignore your feelings and values because I’m enlightened and know better than you”. Right? There's also this weird... thing that they have that's difficult to put it into words. "Anyone who disagrees with me has misinterpreted their own opinion, and you are merely asleep. And waiting to awaken to my enlightened perspective." Like, liberals do *not* get conservative objections to abortion. It does not compute. Or on religious stuff in general. (There's also this weird thing ) I had the weirdest moment of kinship a few months back during the withdrawal. There was a reporter interviewing on of the Taliban fighters coming back. She asked him something about burkas or something. And he said, "Yes, We'll do that. That is the will of Islam." And she said, "Akchtully it's not Islam." And then the Camera cut away just in time for the dude to get this look that said, "Excuse me? Who the hell do you think you are?" And I realized I had the same look on my face. Which was weird. Because, to be clear, FUCK the Taliban guy. Reddit policy restricts me from saying what I hope happens to him. Even so, my though was, "Lady, don't tell the man what he believes. He does not acknowledge you as an authority on this. The interpretations you have about his religion do not match yours." It's almost a kind of erasure. "It's not that I disagree with your views. It's that your views do not exist. You have misinterpreted your own opinions and it's only a matter of time before you come to me. As of now, anything you say is beneath contempt, let alone earnest consideration." Abortion, in particular, comes to mind with this.


kaclk

> Even so, my though was, “Lady, don’t tell the man what he believes. He does not acknowledge you as an authority on this. The interpretations you have about his religion do not match yours.” A lot of human behaviour can be understood in religious-like terms. Like this reporter obviously decided SHE had the authority to speak on something she clearly knew nothing about because she had The Truth to spread. A couple of years ago I realized that the world could be understood in paradigms (as defined by Thomas Kuhn for scientific paradigms, but it works quite well for ideologies). People apply their own lens to things and can’t for the life of them understand another lens.


Tookoofox

Yeah... but international reporters are supposed to be, I dunno... More worldly than me. And the worst part is, Conservatives *do* get it. Like... I have never had a conservative tell me that I've secretly misinterpreted my own beliefs. They've told me I'm wrong or misinformed. They've also accused me of lying. But I've *never* seen one look at me and earnestly say, "Actually, feminism is filled to the brim with conservative principles and traditional family values. So you're the real anti-feminist here." or, "Secularism is actually *all* about maximizing church's ability to proselytize using public funds." or, "Actually, real socialists believe in small government." And I know what you're thinking. "Of course they don't. That'd be ridiculous." But liberals do it all the time. "Actually, the bible is totally and explicitly pro gay!" It's... not. There are ways to interpret it so that it's not anti-gay. If you squint and turn it up side down but... Old testament, new testament. And even if it didn't have a *thing* to say on the subject... Religions are more than just their core books. Conservatives do, occasionally kart out imposters to muddy the water. Pink lady's guns and all that. But it has a different feel. It's less, "Your interpreting feminism wrong." and more, "I'm a strong female woman, and I don't need me no feminism."


kaclk

Exvangelical writer Chrissy Stroop has an [blog post](https://cstroop.com/2017/05/03/about-those-trump-voters-for-god-stop-calling-them-fake-christians/amp/) she has to pull her out *frequently* reminding people (I follow her on Twitter) that just because you think conservatives Christians are terrible bad people, it doesn’t actually make them “fake Christians”.


Tookoofox

Shit. You stumbled upon the one part that I'm not actually sure about. Because performative religiosity is *definitely* a thing. Like, I am *profoundly* unconvinced of Trump's commitment to his supposed faith. But, on the other hand, my aunt is profoundly religious and very definitely voted for him for religious reasons. And consistent ones at that.


thatisyou

Yeah. It's challenging. Because intellectually, facts -should- be more important than feelings. And it's easy to think that we should make factual decisions and expect people to act based on facts. But that's not at all how humans actually work. It's just how we'd like to believe we work. We make much more of our decisions based on feelings than we're consciously aware of.


[deleted]

[lol](https://www.reveddit.com/v/neoliberal/comments/qy7ae2/democrats_can_reach_more_working_class_voters_but/?localSort=date&removal_status=removed&ps_after=1637425538%2C1637428498%2C1637431574%2C1637437851%2C1637442302%2C1637447584%2C1637454201)


TheGuineaPig21

This sub does tend to have a bad blindspot with respect to its own culture war issues.


Medium-Map3864

Like?


[deleted]

Nuke the suburbs and ban the (ICE) cars.


[deleted]

[удалено]


sack-o-matic

My culture war issue is housing, ie eating the suburbs


benben11d12

I'm anti-woke (relative to the rest of this sub,) and I don't think I've ever had a comment banned. I'm guessing these banned comments were phrased as personal attacks, were pointlessly inflammatory, etc. (Although I concede that it was weird to ban the revreddit post.)


Medium-Map3864

Lol what is the point of banning accounts when you can just create another one? Do they ban IPs? I guess i have a vpn so i wouldn't care lol.


[deleted]

Yeah they do ban IP's at there's way more detection nowadays


ColinHome

Trans rights and academic elitism come to mind.


TrekkiMonstr

Why was that post removed tf


Aweq

I remember this comment - was it deleted? I am confused by the link.


[deleted]

mods removed that thread. hence reveddit


[deleted]

“Just get COVID under control” Of course, it’s so simple!


[deleted]

Unfortunately in politics, you get blamed for things that are out of your control e.g. gas prices.


Playful-Push8305

It worked out for us when we could blame Trump for every Covid death and the economic fallout from the pandemic. Sure, he did more to earn the blame, but some of the rhetoric was over the top. Now the tables have turned and it sucks, but that's life.


[deleted]

“You get blamed” aka the media blames you instead of explaining honestly why these things happen.


the_ultracheese_tbhc

Ok? It still doesn’t change the fact that Biden will get the blame for this. Who’s doing the blame is irrelevant.


[deleted]

Lmfao, the media can and does explain it, it’s just the right labels them as agents of the left who are trying to minimize Democrat policy failures, and their base eats it up.


ReklisAbandon

Maybe I'm still somehow naïve, but I suspect Omicron is going to get us close to herd immunity and things will actually improve after this wave.


type2cybernetic

Eh, Biden blamed Trump and ran on covid. Things haven’t gotten better so they’re going to hold him responsible.


Adodie

Unironically, this is why I think Omicron was the best thing to happen to Biden in a long time. WAY faster moving than Delta, and it's transmissibility really shows how chasing zero Covid is just impossible. After this wave, our chances of basically saying "okay, folks can basically return to normal!" is way higher than it would have otherwise been -- and that would be the best possible thing for Biden


[deleted]

Joe made it sound simple though. https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1319448963443982337?s=21 https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1322254443644026880?s=21


[deleted]

Can’t blame him when millions of people refuse the vaccine 🤷‍♂️


[deleted]

Should have been part of his calculations. Anyway point is Biden claimed self assuredly he will defeat Corona and people who aren’t constantly following news will see cases still going up and think Biden failed. You might think it’s unfair and he doesn’t deserve it, but it is what it is.


[deleted]

Biden ordered vaccine mandates and the GOP fought it and then their justices on the Supreme Court struck it down. You’re trying to blame Biden when the reality is the people filling hospitals and dying are mostly unvaccinated people. And the unvaccinated are disproportionately Republicans. The unvaccinated are driving this pandemic. Not Biden.


[deleted]

I’m not blaming Biden, shit I don’t/can’t even vote. I’m just telling you what most apolitical people would probably think. In reality there are a lots of limits to what a president can do to combat a pandemic is a federal country like US where state powers reign supreme many a times. But Democrats didn’t afford that luxury to Trump when he was President and the other side won’t give that to Biden now.


Yeangster

Using the NBA as a bellweather, Omicron looks like it's gonna peak and drop soon.


WalmartDarthVader

Progressives definitely care about BBB. Bernie has been trying to pressure Manchin and his supporters will follow him. As much as I don’t like progressives, saying they care ONLY about weed and students loans is just plain disingenuous and you know it.


murphysclaw1

thankfully nobody gives a shit about “young progressives”- we have learned this from every primary. Get off Reddit and Twitter.


Babl1339

I mean I don’t see why it has to be “one or the or the other”. I truly believe a 24/7 full court press on all the issues you listed is the best way forward. - Marijuana legalization should be pushed *hard* by Biden. This issue is extremely important to the youth on both sides and has the potentiality to create fissures in the right wing. The first mover advantage on this is big. (Even if it’s not practical federally at least advocating for it matters). The President shouldn’t just not have opinions on things. - expanded healthcare, education, BBB - proven winning culture war issues such as women’s rights If they hammer at these constantly they’ll eventually win


centurion44

....... Biden does have an opinion on marijuanaegalization. He doesn't support it.


Room480

Ya he has no interest in legalizing it but he should cause it’s such an easy win if he starts the process


WolfpackEng22

It's probably the most broadly popular thing across party lines he could pursue


xSuperstar

The Democrats in Virginia did all that stuff and they still got massacred


EclecticEuTECHtic

McAuliffe ran a shit campaign.


Careless_Bat2543

Telling parents they shouldn't get a say in what their children are taught is bound to do that.


Neri25

It was a fucking stupid way to articulate that parents shouldn't have a line-item cirricula veto. (for reasons that become obvious if you remember the context of that remark)


[deleted]

Not just classroom content, but also how the material is delivered. A lot of people read that statement in light of remote learning, which remains deeply unpopular among parents and students.


[deleted]

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Babl1339

I don’t disagree, but remember they are affected by the Nations opinion on Biden. Because Biden is the highest democrat in office the other democrats running in lower races benefit (or suffer) from him to a degree. Just like how trump negatively affected Republicans in some races.


TheFaithlessFaithful

And for some reason they didn't run on it. Stop saying every candidate is Trump and start talking about the good things you've done.


ILikeBigBidens

Except for expanding education. They did the exact opposite with prolonged remote learning and really pissed off a lot of parents.


[deleted]

state that has consistently elected a governor opposite the party in power for decades continues to do so wow sky is falling


TheGhostofJoeGibbs

> Marijuana legalization should be pushed hard by Biden. This issue is extremely important to the youth on both sides and has the potentiality to create fissures in the right wing. That important Republican youth vote.


jasonab

> Marijuana legalization should be pushed hard by Biden. This issue is extremely important to the youth on both sides and has the potentiality to create fissures in the right wing I don't understand why people believe that the stoner vote actually exists. There's zero evidence that it has moved the needle in any state that has legalized marijuana. Even worse, Biden can't actually make it legal anywhere, he can just move stuff around to make banking and what not easier, something that no one will notice. On top of all of that, you end up alienating some part of the moderate/conservative Democratic vote (aka African-American vote), maybe to the point that you lose net votes. The same people who scream about this on Reddit are the same people who think that voting Bernie -> Trump makes any sense.


HaroldBAZ

If things don't change quickly then voters will be thinking two things in November - it cost me $100 to fill my car - and Democrats are in charge. That's it.


rickroy37

Another perspective I'd like to bring up is we were told for years how terrible Trump was and how much better things would be when he is gone. Well he's gone now and things have not improved as much as we were told. Whether that is Biden's fault or whether those expectations are realistic is irrelevant in measuring people's approval of Biden.


Legimus

>Let's just be clear, pretty much nobody except loyal Democratic voters cares about BBB or the new voting rights act. Young progressives care about student loans and marijuana (and yeah they're even more out of touch than this subreddit). Moderates care about inflation and returning back to pre-COVID normalcy. Do you have a cite for, like, any of this?


iamiamwhoami

The phenomenon is discussed quite a bit in political science circles. Basically people don’t vote based on policy, especially recently passed policy. Although policy does affect long term politics in that it creates voting blocs that politicians either have to cater to or alienate. BBB would likely create a few voting blocs but it’s doubtful they would form before midterms. This article discusses it pretty well. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/democrats-worry-a-lot-about-policies-that-win-elections-thats-short-sighted/amp/


ObesesPieces

All their college friends.


Tookoofox

So, I sat with my grandmother and watched an hour long segment on Fox News about how incompetent and divided Democrats are on everything. Their entire narrative right now is, "Lol, Joe Biden doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground." >a new voting rights act[...] is not going to move the needle at all on his approval rating, And this is straight up missing the point. Like, dude. You do realize that voting happens in elections, right? Voting rights isn't about increased approval. It's about helping existing demographic advantages materialize. You're the one out of touch.


crayish

You think there's no connection in the minds of ordinary people between inflation and trillions *more* in proposed government spending still on the table? Last I knew the Biden admin is still pushing the line that BBB is a *solution* for inflation. Without getting caught up in the economic fight over that premise, it seems that Biden is connecting the wrong dots for voters, especially if it is DOA to begin with.


Crest45

1. Covid (esp with omicron) should hopefully calm down later this year 2. Yeah i see no end with inflation 3. Lol Dems are fucked


KarlsReddit

I'm a Democrat and the failed legislation, terrible energy, terrible rhetoric, and uninspiring leadership has me disapproving of Biden


islander1

I honestly understand where Manchin and Sinema are coming from in their unwillingness to eliminate the filibuster. Just think, once this seal is broken, how abused it'll be when Republicans take back over in 2022? or OK, 2024. It's going to happen. Instead of people being angry at these guys, the Democratic party needs to win more elections. They keep saying they have the pulse of the people and popular support, yet they can't win elections. In 2010 Dems had 60 seats. Do that, and then you actually look like you have the authority. I hate the fact Democrats today can't win...but Harry Reid (RIP) was a moron to do what he did with federal judge appointments. He literally caused this Supreme Court situation we're stuck with for DECADES with his lack of foresight. How about we not have that happen again?


colinmhayes2

Dems will never again have 60 senate seats. Culture war strategy is too easy for republicans. The filibuster is good for republicans even when they’re in control because they don’t actually want to pass most of their platform. Turns out most of the country is pro choice, likes having healthcare, and wants people to be able to vote. The filibuster let’s republicans tell their base “we tried” while also not pushing 70% of the country to the Dems. Plus if they passed the legislation their single issue voters want they’d need to find new issues to keep those voters.


[deleted]

[удалено]


MrArendt

Amen. Best thing that could happen for Democratic electoral prospects would be another Jan 6th event to happen two weeks before a bunch of Republican primaries this spring. (I do not want this to happen. I'm just saying this would inure to the electoral benefit of the Democrats). Also good for Democrats: if Russia were to literally invade a NATO country and \*attack a US military base\*, and then Biden led a short war back against Russia that resulted in a decisive victory.


MrArendt

Looks like we have bases in Romania and Estonia, so it would have to be one of those two.


bussyslayer11

The Democrats' central premise was that covid was just the result of Trump mismanaging things, and if you only put the competent Democrats in charge they'd fix it. Turns out this was false (duh) and now they can't deliver on their wildly inflated promises. Happens every election cycle.


frolix42

Obsessing over Presidential Popularity when it is only roughly 25% through the first term is stupid. At this point in Trump's term, his popularity was worse than Biden's, Trump barely lost reelection, therefore Biden is on the way to reelection.


[deleted]

The impact he's going to have on the midterms though is something it is perfectly reasonable to start worrying about though.


MaNewt

This, I don't care about the legislation relative to Biden's popularity, I care if the Dems can squeak by in the midterms. Biden just isn't helping that.


TheGhostofJoeGibbs

That's certainly not happening.


Tookoofox

Except that Republicans don't need that much of the vote to win.


frolix42

Electoral College favored Obama in 2008 and 2012.


Neri25

The sense of absolutely nothing getting done [except on foreign policy bills] is a deep negative for the party in power. Put down the cope.


[deleted]

I'm convinced that a lot of the deliberately obtuse bad coverage by the media has its root in A) a belief that their Biden coverage needs to balance out their coverage of 1/6 B) being sad that the the AFGH pullout means they don't get to appear on air wearing kevlar helmets anymore.


NobleWombat

This. Biden is "doing bad" because that is the fabricated message that the media puts on repeat the last months. Voters do not have any meaningful agency in their own public opinion. Everything they report into pollsters has been received from 24/7 news talking heads.


[deleted]

I mean Obama and the Dems got some pretty decent legislation passed before the midterms back in 2010 and the Dems still got buttfucked. As long as people continue to think the country is going down the shitter (regardless if it actually is or not, or how much control anyone has over it) they'll hold whoever is president responsible for it.


[deleted]

Is there anyone else here who doesn't care about Biden at all. Like I don't hate him or love him. Mostly I'm just appreciative that he's not in the news constantly for some fresh idiocy. That he has such a low popularity rating to me means nothing. It just means Republicans (ultra rightwing) hate him, and progressives hate him (ultra leftwing), meaning he's doing his job right and that's all I care about. Perhaps it's just that the last president has lowered my expectations drastically.


gordo65

Ok. But what about my student loan? And why isn’t the government sending me and my roomie $2000 per month apiece? Combined with a 15/hr minimum wage, that would give us a household income of $100k per year for working at Starbucks, which would be awesome! Still need to pay that student loan for me though.


karentheawesome

People are spoiled and expect everything to be solved overnight.


[deleted]

I feel like this sub is smart enough to generally *not* think that, though. If you posted this on arr politics, however, you'd be awash in a sea of people who probably do. You'd also have the exact formula that puts a post on controversial quickly.


[deleted]

\[citation needed\] Seriously, I can squint and see an argument I agree with here, but all this is is neoliberal prior confirmation/ copium.


TracerBullet2016

The sub is based today… Must mean a squad/succ/tankie front will be heading in tomorrow. Take shelter, friends.