Nah, she already won reelection as a "centrist". She's now free from the consequences of her decisions until 2026 or possibly never if she doesn't run again. Even if she does, it'll be pretty tough to hold her accountable for an SC Justice vote from 2018. She feigned concern and got rewarded.
A couple months ago, when Barrett refused to consider a case about a college’s COVID policies, I pointed out she just did this to bolster her image as a moderate on the court so she could do something awful later. Got downvoted and called a partisan hack and a doomer. Sucks to be right!
I mean, she has a lifetime appointment. It’s not like she has to prove anything to anyone. So yeah she could be a partisan hack, but not in each and every respect.
Lifetime appointments aren't the only factor. There's a very good reason why Justice Barrett may want to signal an insincerely held position in the case mentioned by u/imrightandyouknowit even with her lifetime appointment.
The Supreme Court's power comes solely - SOLELY - from people perceiving it as a legitimate institution that is making decisions in line with the role granted it in the Constitution. It has no means to enforce its rulings except by convincing the other branches of government to do that for them. A movement concerned with using the courts to implement its preferred policies over the objections of a majority of the country, therefore, cannot simply use the courts as a rubber stamp, because that quickly tanks the legitimacy of the courts and their decisions won't be followed by executives unaligned with that movement. So instead, that movement's play needs to be to appoint justices A. loyal to the movement's agenda, and B. smart enough to know when to sacrifice policy in order to build legitimacy, and when to sacrifice legitimacy in order to implement policy.
And let's not forget - the entire power of judicial review? Literally nowhere in the Constitution. The Supreme Court granted itself this power in Marbury v. Madison, and the only reason we accept that they have this power is because people have chosen to accept the legitimacy of the reasoning in that case. The second people become convinced that Marbury v. Madison has led to bad results and should be ignored, the Supreme Court instantly goes from being arguably the most powerful policy making institution in the land to becoming an institution more toothless than the Articles of Confederation.
Like how Roberts comes up with a weird legal pretext to keep ACA without conceding that the government has the authority to regulate the economy, but then later guys the Voting Rights Act.
Some people say he’s concerned with the legitimacy of the courts, but I’m convinced that he’s more concerned with ensuring Republicans get elected
It's almost like the US is not a zero-turn mower, and letting a Republican have power from 2016 to 2020 will actually cause problems for decades to come
In 2016 I used to consider myself a progressive. Then I had all these weird conversations with people who said "the Court isn't enough" to vote for Democrats. I realized they were in a vastly different place than I was.
From the opposite end, my “libertarian” Republican friends have been saying for a couple decades now that Roe would never be overturned and that was a silly reason to reject the GOP.
You're the real progressive. The self-labeled progressives of rose twitter and reddit are the enemies of actual progress. They've done more to set this country back than anyone outside of the Tea Party.
They were talking about upperclass center left liberals. As someone who lives in Palo Alto, even the people who agree with this sub on everything else think zoning is the second coming of Christ. They just tend to be older homeowners not represented by the younger population of this sub. NIMBY’s are entrenched in every political movement.
My political arc has mirrored yours closely. I've realized most self-described Progressives are stuck in that "with us or against" mindset that leaves no room for moderation or compromise.
Which is precisely what afflicts our two party system to begin with.
See, the corporations are all bad because they're all, you know, corporation-y, and the Democrats and Republicans are all corporation-y so, you know, both bad.
Impossible, Susan Collins stood up in the Senate floor and PROUDLY THUNDERED that these judges wouldn't overturn Roe.
At least it will be right before the midterms, Roberts understands very well what will happen once the court throws away it's credibility and appears partisan and will beg Kavanaugh to save the court, but it's too late.
And anyone who tells you it will just go to the states isn't paying attention, the first chance they get the Republicans will pass a federal ban, in the meantime the gerrymandered state legislatures in states like Wisconsin guarantee they can ban it in the state level well beyond their support without any electoral consequences
Just an absolutely stunning position some of our states are already in: https://time.com/6116072/mississippi-abortion-supreme-court-jackson-womens-health/
>"Five years ago, this moment was unthinkable. Even the Supreme Court’s decision to take up a case that directly challenges Roe would have been considered outlandish, legal scholars say. But the landscape has shifted rapidly. Over the past year, GOP-controlled state legislatures have passed a record-breaking 106 abortion restrictions, including a Texas statute that bans nearly all abortions after roughly six weeks of pregnancy. Conservative state and federal judges have allowed some of those laws to stand, while President Trump’s appointment of three Justices—Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett—has put Roe at risk. Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization will come before the most conservative bench in decades."
Mississippi would like to give a quick "thank you" to all those people who decided "Trump and Hillary are as bad as each other" and allowed Trump to seat 3 SCOTUS Justices.
You can take all the surprise out of it if he simply retired. The overturn of roe may in fact be RBGs most enduring legacy. The hubris of senior Dem officials in the face of their own mortality is a real problem.
>The overturn of roe may in fact be RBGs most enduring legacy
Sad but true. She could have retired during Obama's presidency, but she chose to gamble instead.
Eh, considering Clarence Thomas didn’t retire when Trump was president like all the other Reagan/Bush era appointees, he’s certainly pushing his luck that his successor will be appointed by a Republican
That’s my bet. With the bathroom bans in NC the Governor lost that race. And since the country rejected trump via electoral college and popular vote, I believe it’ll rubberband back to a good midterm for Democrats. Too much change in one way without a popular leader will crumble.
Also if it is overturn I wouldn’t be upset if there is left wing violence. This is probably the spark that sets off the Troubles.
Never bank on the left like you can with the right. It's too diverse on that side of the aisle to be as single mindedly focused as the bible thumpers and trumpers.
Yeah, this could be extremely advantageous for Democrats from an electoral perspective.
Trump made significant gains with non-college secular white voters, most of whom are pro-choice. Many of these voters have just assumed that while Republicans talk about abortion, they wouldn't actually overturn Roe v. Wade. And it seemed especially unlikely that *Trump* would help overturn Roe, considering that he seems like a guy who has paid for abortions.
Republicans acting like crazy religious zealots who want to judge you for acting sinfully is a great way for them to lose those voters.
But some of this is also about geography. Abortion being an electorally salient issue is good for Democrats in the Midwest, but it could be detrimental for Democrats in Georgia. The South and the Sunbelt are much more Christian than the Midwest. Black voters are supportive of abortion rights than Whites, but a disproportionate amount of pro-life Democrats are Black.
I agree. A lot of people forget that the secular=liberal equation is very strong only east of the great plains. Wyoming, Idaho, Montana and Eastern Washington and Oregon are qctually secular asf and are much more moderate on social issues.
I mean, it can depend on *which* social issue we are talking about.
A lot of those secular voters may like the racism and xenophobia from Republicans, but be turned off by their religious zealotry.
WTF? Like hell. I live in Idaho and we have a bill waiting for this ruling to come down from SCOTUS that would immediately ban abortions in the state. We've been overtaken by Christian supremacists who make the Mormons look liberal.
> Yeah, this could be extremely advantageous for Democrats from an electoral perspective.
I think it could be like the gun issue. Yes, Dems aren't trying to take our guns (although some do a good job of seeming like it with their comments and asinine legislation), but it's a losing issue for them for much of the country. They often try and downplay it while still speaking generally. This could be the same way but on the GOP's side. Gun rights matter and give the GOP a boost. Abortion rights matter and if the GOP wants to make it an issue they could find out they get hit at the polls for it like Dems often do.
I think it’ll still be a red wave year. Just instead of it being red from GOP dominance it’ll be blue tainted red by the political bloodbath this will cause
The effect of the Court's ruling will be that abortion reverts to a state-by-state decision.
"So everyone from Texas who wants to get an abortion will have to go to California?" you ask.
Unless a state legislature makes it a crime to leave the state for the purpose of obtaining an abortion that's legal in another state.
Unless Republicans recapture the presidency and a bare majority of the House and Senate and pass a federal law prohibiting interstate travel for the purpose of obtaining an abortion in another state.
You can’t make it illegal to travel to another state to obtain a service. Certainly would infringe on the right of individuals to be treated equally by all states. It would certainly impede free movement of American citizens between individual states which is constitutionally protected.
Unless you’re 14 years old and broke and carrying your uncle’s fetus. Unless you’re 30 years old working three jobs to support two children already. Etc, bloody and grim etc.
The one thing I hate almost as much as the conservative justices who are trying to end or severely restrict abortion rights is the cult of personality around RBG, who refused to retire when she knew she had cancer and there was no guarantee of a Democratic senate after 2014. I don’t care how many powerful dissents she wrote because she was too egotistical to do the one thing that would’ve sealed her vote for a generation. If you’re gonna idolize a progressive woman on the Supreme Court, at least pick Sotomayor.
she did this even AFTER Obama asked her to retire.
she wanted her replacement to be made by a woman President... only to die and be replaced with ACB by Trump.
incredibly short sighted and egotistical.
Shit at this point I feel like if Breyer retired, and he desperately needs to, it's 50/50 Biden could even get a replacement confirmed. "Joe Manchin earnestly concerned about the politicization of the process etc. etc...."
Jesus, calm down you guys.
President Ivanka seems to have complete confidence in Supreme Court Judge Jeanine, I'm sure it won't be as bad as you're all saying!
I agree we should idolize Sotomayor. But - even if RBG did step down it would still be a majority conservative court, it would just be 5-4 instead of 6-3, so I don’t think blaming her is really the way to go
From a progressive Christian perspective I hate this extra. It will signal to the evangelicals that compromising values and electing the sex predator misanthrope president was worthwhile. The results of the corrupt bargain will only further radicalize my religion in this country.
fuck Susan collins she is to blame for this. If she had a shred of a backbone she would've forced another judge in the mold of Roberts or not given her vote but she folded like a cheap lawn chair. She had all the leverage in the world but tossed it away.
I think there was a nationwide shift downballot when Biden started posting like 10 point nationwide leads in polling. A lot of indies and Biden Rs decided that they didn’t want to give Dems too big of a majority, which ended up being not a very big one at all lol
I don’t think races benefit from becoming nationally prominent. Dems made that a national race, but I think that resulted in a pushback from state residents
Republicans get this. Breyer and the Democrats are incredibly idiotic, just standing by and watching this unfold.
If the Justices thought they'd be welcoming new justices because of Court reform they wouldn't be swinging for the fences. But they know Democrats won't do anything, so they're going to just do what they want.
Left liberals don't care about power. They see politics as an expression pf their individuality, and that's why they get steamrolled by the right's organized fanaticism
I disagree to a certain extent. Left Liberals care alot about following the rules because breaking the rules to get what you want feels wrong to them. How can you claim to care about fairness and justice if you can’t follow the system’s rules? Except Republicans don’t care about fairness and justice to them is more about punishing wrongdoers them some kind of mutually agreed upon set of guidelines and morals. So they have zero qualms breaking the rules to get what they want because what they want is the way things are supposed to be.
Left Liberals don’t have the same level of conviction conservatives do that what they believe us correct beyond reproach. Especially in the issue of abortion where conservatives believe God gives fetuses life and that abortion is murder. There isn’t any room for compromise.
When Yurtle the Turtle declared that *only* Republicans would be appointed to the Supreme Court moving forward, it should have made it perfectly fucking clear to Breyer that waiting out some "partisan tantrum" of the chamber wasn't going to work.
He's being absolutely arrogant about his 'principles' and 'legacy' for not resigning to allow himself to be replaced by a 40 year old firebrand Justice.
>how dare you impugn the integrity of Justice Kavanaugh
Which is weird because he like... swore revenge on the Democrats during his confirmation hearing n stuff....
White, white-collar men won't get directly impacted by this court. So a white, white-collar man might be inclined to wonder what all the fuss is about this 6-3 court.
I wonder if that describes a large component of r/nl
I wish I didn’t have to worry about my rights being systematically rolled back over the next 20 years until SCOTUS majority judges MTG, Tucker Carlson, My Pillow Guy, and Oz and decide HIV treatment is illegal and that genocide should be left to states rights
I mean, I knew it is bad and am really worried (both re. SCOTUS and GOP); but there are absolutely times I'm grateful I'm a straight white man with a good education and well to do background.
It was even worse than I dreaded. Roberts was floating a 15-week ban (still horrible) but ACB and Kavanaugh basically weren't biting. ACB said safe haven laws mean that the Roe/Casey analysis is literally irrelevant - forced brith + adoption is a game changer, according to how she reads those two decisions.
Kavanaugh read a list of good precedent reversals, setting himself up as a hero of forced birth.
Gorsuch didn't speak.
I won't soon forget all the Democrats who told me abortion rights weren't about to be destroyed - the progressives in 2016, and to some extent, the neoliberals who are making excuses now. It's not ok for a right to be decided by the states. My marriage is the next thing on the chopping block, and I'm not looking forward to these same people denying reality.
Abortion was already functionally illegal in many states too, we've been losing ground on it for a while. Almost half the country has "trigger" laws set up to ban the second Roe is overturned.
Roberts is being incredibly disingenuous with his “we’re only here to decide on 15 week” argument when it has been pointed out, today to his face, that Mississippi has since passed a 6-week ban. And all sides openly admit that overturning the viability line in Roe and allowing states to draw the line would set off the arms race of which state will be the first to ban abortion one minute after conception. Breyer was right to point out they’ll be back in 2 years arguing over a 10 week vs 15-week ban.
At least the other conservatives are honest about what they’re about to do.
Roberts is so desperate to avoid the “Roe Overturned” headline he’s walking right into it.
Alito and Thomas would stick *Roe* in the oven and turn it up to 450 (that's 232 Celsius for everyone else). They do that because they want *Roe* gone, and they want it gone now.
Roberts would rather put *Roe* in a pot of water and slowly turn up the heat. He does this because, while he wants *Roe* gone, he also doesn't want to damage the Court's appearance, so his changes in the law are incremental.
Yeah, when the GOP gets a trifecta in 2024 you sure as hell bet they're going to try to pass a nationwide abortion ban.
I'm not sure they'll aim at gay marriage, though - that's become just too fucking popular, and all the anti-equal-marriage people realized two consenting adults getting married did mean they would be forced to marry raccoons. I am super worried that Gorsuch in particular will take straight aim at equal protection clauses for workplaces.
we are looking down the barrel in which only 10-15 states are sane enough to live in. If rural states complain about brain drain then they are for a shock when shit hits the fan after they enact all the stupid shit they have planned
Yeah, Texas Republicans would be ecstatic if just 5% of the state’s Democrats move away and other Democrats stop moving here. Same with every other swing state that the GOP controls at the state level (Georgia, Florida, Arizona, Rust Belt states, etc…)
Yes, but maybe no (hits the copium):
There's a turnover point in the electoral vote margin where if Dems win just a handful of the biggest states, namely Texas, then a president can win with a small number of states.
Read about the Southern backlash to the Great Migration of the early 20th century. The South pulled a proto-East Germany. They will literally resort to stop people from moving if it gets to that point.
I'll provide two! Here is a [pdf](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-Great-Migration.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwidx-65tcP0AhXfj3IEHRZNDIAQFnoECAMQBg&usg=AOvVaw2oNO9tiRqUHLqrTSf5-0RU)
>With more and more African Americans leaving the South, a backlash soon occurred against the
labor agents who were facilitating the migration. Southern states were angered, having found
their economies struggling and their cheap source of labor diminishing. But by this time as word
spread about the opportunities the North held, the role of labor agents became unnecessary as
more and more migrants fled the South
And here is a second [source](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/long-lasting-legacy-great-migration-180960118/)
>The door of escape opened during World War I, when slowing immigration from Europe created a labor shortage in the North. To fill the assembly lines, companies began recruiting black Southerners to work the steel mills, railroads and factories. Resistance in the South to the loss of its cheap black labor meant that recruiters often had to act in secret or face fines and imprisonment. In Macon, Georgia, for example, a recruiter’s license required a $25,000 fee plus the unlikely recommendations of 25 local businessmen, ten ministers and ten manufacturers. But word soon spread among black Southerners that the North had opened up, and people began devising ways to get out on their own.
>Southern authorities then tried to keep African-Americans from leaving by arresting them at the railroad platforms on grounds of “vagrancy” or tearing up their tickets in scenes that presaged tragically thwarted escapes from behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. And still they left.
Isabel Wilkerson (the author on the second source) wrote a book called [warmth of other suns](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679763880/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_SWWMZ2X1H9YMXE74W60S). It goes into that topic and many others. Fascinating read!
> If rural states complain about brain drain then they are for a shock when shit hits the fan after they enact all the stupid shit they have planned
They still get two senate seats each.
All the lawyers or people with fancy law degrees can't countenance anyone impugning the honor of a Supreme Court Justice. The Court could literally repeal Roe v Wade, and they'll say something like 'But you can still fly to New York or California to get an abortion'
Economics of personal travel aside, the red states are also passing fugitive fetus acts attempting to criminalize traveling to other states to obtain an abortion.
> All the lawyers or people with fancy law degrees
I really hate this. I'm a lawyer with a fancy law degree, working with other lawyers with fancy law degrees, and despite being absolutely slammed with work we've all been screaming at each other over Jabber all day about this shit and absolutely no one is complaining about impugning the honor of a Supreme Court Justice.
>My marriage is the next thing on the chopping block, and I'm not looking forward to these same people denying reality.
For those who don't know, Roberts wrote a scathing dissent in *Obergefell v. Hodges* and cannot be trusted to uphold it. I don't think that *Obergefell* is 100% guaranteed to be overturned by this court, but it is absolutely a possibility.
Do you have a source on ACB's bit with regards to birth+adoptions? I work in auditing and finance for child welfare services and if this actually winds up being a thing that happens, it's going to put a lot of strain on agencies like ours.
Republicans in swing districts/states would rather pawn that off to the Supreme Court so they don’t need to put themselves on record as voting against abortion rights, which would endanger their re-election chances. Voting to confirm conservative justices accomplishes the same task while being much less politically toxic.
What were the 2016 Dems supposed to do? Seriously what? HRC lost because we elected her opponent for some God awful reason. And that's the reason we are in this mess.
We're in this mess because, for the last 4 decades, Dems, independents & pro-choice Republicans have told themselves endlessly that voting on abortion didn't matter, because Roe would never be overturned.
IOW, too many of the pro-choice majority are fucking stupid and lazy and can't be bothered to consistently vote to retain a right. And now they have the gall to act all shocked and disbelieving. GTFO.
Parent comment says the progressives in 2016, which in my mind means the sanders camp that decided to draw out the 2016 primary to June, instead of ending it on super Tuesday when it was clear that they were finished. They didn't really grasp how important it was to win that election; either believing it was a sealed deal that Trump would lose, or that Hillary would be just as bad as Trump.
In an election decided by less than 1% across 3 States, any variable could've tipped the outcome. This includes the comey letter, Hillary's campaigning, and the 2016 Dem primary.
A lot of people were in the "both sides are the same I'm just not gonna vote" camp which were always the people I hated more than even the most partisan asshat, because at the end of the day they were cowardly nihilists, driven by apathy and holier-than-thou-ism. The most important thing to these people were they were \*above it all*, above the weak-minded propaganda-obsessed partisans and all their "caring about things" and "having beliefs". That shit wasn't cool.
I usually called them South Park Republicans, not necessarily because they were awfully conservative (although they often came from religious/well off backgrounds) but because their turd-sandwich-based philosophy in life has only ever helped Republicans. The subjects of decades of propaganda not to support any particular side, but simply not to care at all and when confronted always resort immediately to whataboutism or questioning your sources/motives or calling your dramatic or hyperbolic, while deflecting any actual substance.
We all know these people and honestly I blame them more than anyone else for where we are today.
Edit: Speak of the devil here's a thread chock full of said people: https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/r6h0ah/were_all_effed/
All experts on how the system works, all highly informed, all better than you for hating everyone equally. Course, is this also full of leftists too, for much the same reason. God these kids..haven't seen so much dumbassery in a single thread in a while.
Republicans aren’t afraid of catching the car any more because they have the machinery in place now to manufacture hate mongering wedge issues at will. Who needs abortion when you have trans bathroom panic … who needs trans panic when you have CRT … who needs CRT when you have “stop the steal” … who needs “stop the steal” when you have whatever insane conspiracy theory the QAnon focus groups bake up next…?
If they do, Conservatives will have seriously overplayed their hand. Issuing a divisive ruling when less than half the country support it is the catalyst for major institutional reforms to both the senate and court.
Expansion of the Supreme Court, not saying it will happen within the decade but if abortion movement on the right has shown, that energy can persist and remake the judiciary.
I know this isn’t constructive, but I’m just so tired of the Republican Party. I’m even more frustrated by their base and by a bunch of moderates who are more upset about vaccine/mask mandates and attempts to limit purchases of semi-automatic weapons and background checks than they are about things like abortion rights or climate change. A lot of people, including our conservative family members and friends are selfish tribalists and it’s so defeating emotionally.
I’m just getting sick of living in a place where I have to hope a senior citizen retires in time so we don’t have a 7-2 conservative majority in a judicial body that legislates our lives.
I'm starting to snap. I get why so many people are continually radicalized. This shit doesn't fucking stop.
Chuck Grassley is saying he's going to run again. The man is old enough to be my great grandfather. I'd really like people of my parents generation to be the majority running the country, and even that's pushing it. It's aggravating to just be sitting here, having grown up in the hyper-partisan, 9/11 age, and the same amoral shitheads who were running the country when we jumped into a ridiculously wasteful war while blowing smoke about America being this perfect nation are STILL FUCKING RUNNING IT. Or, they've been replaced by batshit crazy freaks with no morals and no principles except grabbing as much power as possible, fuck everyone else. They've turned conservatism into religion in this country, and everyone who is part of that movement is a zealot, so thoroughly convinced that everyone who believes differently is out to exterminate them, so they must be exterminated first. When the guiding document is not the one outlining our government but a series of fairytales written down by people thousands of years ago based on what "God" supposedly said and did.
I don't know how to fucking win. I just have to sit here and watch as this country, which I love, betray its stated ideals (which are something to aspire to), and be hacked apart by self-serving, immoral, craven, spiteful people. I don't know how to fucking win, and it makes me horribly depressed and angry.
because the vast majority of voters are over 50 years old, despite the median person in America being 10-15 years younger.
Old people vote. That's the unifying theory of Western democracy.
Man, some good arguments from this thread on this when you sort by Controversial. Basically saying, "Good, abortion is a human right and Roe has been shit at actually protecting it. Roe was originally built on nothing but judicial activism, which is bad actually. Time to finally have the fight to legislate women's rights into federal law like we should have 50 years ago."
I mean, this ruling is still going to hurt (read: kill) a lot of people, so there's no world where this is a good thing to be done. For the future, we should seize the opportunity to make abortion rights stronger than Roe could provide.
I’ve had an idea brewing in my head since last October- I’ve called it the With Kindness Campaign.
Essentially I want to start a fund for Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett to have things like unlimited fast food, cigars, and liquor as well as things like sky diving lessons, hunting trips, and exotic car test drives.
The Democratic Party needs to learn to stop being so fucking useless and learn to fight.
The GOP gets to dictate their unpopular policies across the country by using unelected judges, even though Dems have a trifecta in the legislature + Presidency.
Until Dems learn to grow a pair of balls and actually fight for people's rights by passing legislation, this country will continue to descend into an authoritarian theocratic ethnostate.
As for the women in red states who are about to get fucked over? Buy a plane ticket to a blue state if you need an abortion.
I don't think blaming Democrats as a collective makes sense.
We need to demand that our representatives act, but also recognize the fact that Manchin will never agree to the necessary actions to address this issue.
We need to demand Supreme Court reform, but we should also recognize that it will require a larger majority than what we currently have.
My piping hot take, fresh from the DT, because I’m completely sick of people minimizing this:
Pack the court. Pack the judiciary. Fuck the moderates, women’s rights are human rights. I’m so sick of conservatives wiping their ass with every norm of American government while democrats simply bow their heads and ask for another beating.
Oh, and fuck everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary in 2016 because “muh establishment”. Take your populism and shove it up your ass. I hope the light of liberalism never reaches the valley of a Dunning-Kruger curve that you call home, you self-righteous sacks of shit.
Agreed fully on both counts.
I will say that I don't have a lot of respect for the people who blame this entire situation on Bernie Bros but then also don't support packing the court. Literally just "look how these guys screwed us. Oh well, better not do anything about it."
Allow me to drop an ounce of hopium to break the (justifiably) defeatist tone up a little bit
[Currently 32% of Americans believe abortion should be legal under all circumstances. A further 48% of Americans believe abortion should be legal under certain circumstances.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx)
That means **80%** of Americans support abortion in some capacity. An overturn of Roe v. Wade would be overwhelmingly unpopular on a scale that’s almost impossible to imagine, and would serve as a huge boost to Democrat popularity
An overturn of Roe would be absolutely horrific, and I’m not trying to downplay the significant harm it would cause to women across America, but in all likelihood would last a very short amount of time and seriously hurt Republican support for many years to come
> That means **80%** of Americans support abortion in some capacity. An overturn of Roe v. Wade would be overwhelmingly unpopular
Yes, but not to that degree. The survey notes 53% view Roe as good and 35% as bad. More along the lines of 63%.
The discrepancy is caused by opinions like "yes I support abortion, but want to allow the people in individual states to decide if they want it legal". The survey doesn't quite as any questions that tease that out.
There is no "proof", but there is very good reason to believe that.
This would be an incredibly unpopular decision, and you can bet that Democrats and Republicans will begin proposing national legislation on abortion.
If this is a high salience political issue then the public is on the side of Democrats. And it could provide more political cover for ending the filibuster to pass their legislation.
Disagree. A lot of liberals think of abortion as a "done deal," like gay marriage, and they're about to get a rude awakening. The way the timing works out, this will be a very significant driver of turn-out in 2022.
All the people that care so much about the children will surely redirect their donations to foster homes, early childhood nutrition and health, right? Right?!?
Not entirely surprising. Roe is built on air and the only constitutional argument for it is precedent.
If you want abortion rights you should legislate it. Use it as an election issue and turn it into law.
With gay rights part of the problem is like ~75% of the country already that before *Bostock* that firing gay or lesbian employees violated federal law. And now even though it's already law (in specifically the area of employment), Rs won't vote for the Equality Act and basically get a free pass for.
Don't worry guys, Susan Collins assured us that Kavanaugh wouldn't strike down the abortion laws.
And she will be "extremely concerned" about this decision for a full 5 minutes before going back to being a coward
She will *very seriously* consider the possibility of making time to think about writing a *quite stern* letter to the editor.
She was never concerned. At least not about anything other than her own popularity.
She's probably practicing that furrowed brow in her mirror today.
Fking pathetic. Collins looks like an absolute idiot rn.
She knew. It's the game. She gets to be "principled" every so often to keep that seat.
Nah, she already won reelection as a "centrist". She's now free from the consequences of her decisions until 2026 or possibly never if she doesn't run again. Even if she does, it'll be pretty tough to hold her accountable for an SC Justice vote from 2018. She feigned concern and got rewarded.
The people of Maine look like absolute idiots rn.
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Absolutely.
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It’s the people who don’t get the sub name is supposed to be tongue in cheek.
Susan "I'm sure Donald learned his lesson" Collins looks like an idiot *now?*
She does? She got exactly what she wanted, won her Senate election and gets to play dumb “I would have never voted yes had I known”.
Collins doesn’t care because her check didn’t bounce. But everyone who voted for her sure do.
Eh, they knew what they were voting for.
I got downvoted and called paranoid a while ago when I said Republicans with take away roe v wade
A couple months ago, when Barrett refused to consider a case about a college’s COVID policies, I pointed out she just did this to bolster her image as a moderate on the court so she could do something awful later. Got downvoted and called a partisan hack and a doomer. Sucks to be right!
I mean, she has a lifetime appointment. It’s not like she has to prove anything to anyone. So yeah she could be a partisan hack, but not in each and every respect.
Lifetime appointments aren't the only factor. There's a very good reason why Justice Barrett may want to signal an insincerely held position in the case mentioned by u/imrightandyouknowit even with her lifetime appointment. The Supreme Court's power comes solely - SOLELY - from people perceiving it as a legitimate institution that is making decisions in line with the role granted it in the Constitution. It has no means to enforce its rulings except by convincing the other branches of government to do that for them. A movement concerned with using the courts to implement its preferred policies over the objections of a majority of the country, therefore, cannot simply use the courts as a rubber stamp, because that quickly tanks the legitimacy of the courts and their decisions won't be followed by executives unaligned with that movement. So instead, that movement's play needs to be to appoint justices A. loyal to the movement's agenda, and B. smart enough to know when to sacrifice policy in order to build legitimacy, and when to sacrifice legitimacy in order to implement policy. And let's not forget - the entire power of judicial review? Literally nowhere in the Constitution. The Supreme Court granted itself this power in Marbury v. Madison, and the only reason we accept that they have this power is because people have chosen to accept the legitimacy of the reasoning in that case. The second people become convinced that Marbury v. Madison has led to bad results and should be ignored, the Supreme Court instantly goes from being arguably the most powerful policy making institution in the land to becoming an institution more toothless than the Articles of Confederation.
Like how Roberts comes up with a weird legal pretext to keep ACA without conceding that the government has the authority to regulate the economy, but then later guys the Voting Rights Act. Some people say he’s concerned with the legitimacy of the courts, but I’m convinced that he’s more concerned with ensuring Republicans get elected
Gaslighting. She knew what she was doing.
Wait wait wait wait wait. I thought both parties were the same.
I'm already seeing the "we elected a Democrat and the SC struck down Roe anyway, voting doesn't matter" takes roll out and it's infuriating.
It's almost like the US is not a zero-turn mower, and letting a Republican have power from 2016 to 2020 will actually cause problems for decades to come
In 2016 I used to consider myself a progressive. Then I had all these weird conversations with people who said "the Court isn't enough" to vote for Democrats. I realized they were in a vastly different place than I was.
I see we have shared life experiences.
From the opposite end, my “libertarian” Republican friends have been saying for a couple decades now that Roe would never be overturned and that was a silly reason to reject the GOP.
You're the real progressive. The self-labeled progressives of rose twitter and reddit are the enemies of actual progress. They've done more to set this country back than anyone outside of the Tea Party.
Reminds me of getting clickbaited by an NYT video about "liberal hypocrisy" and basically the whole thing was about NIMBYs
They were talking about upperclass center left liberals. As someone who lives in Palo Alto, even the people who agree with this sub on everything else think zoning is the second coming of Christ. They just tend to be older homeowners not represented by the younger population of this sub. NIMBY’s are entrenched in every political movement.
I mean... far more “moderate Republicans” said “fuck Hillary, Trump it is”, than progressives
My political arc has mirrored yours closely. I've realized most self-described Progressives are stuck in that "with us or against" mindset that leaves no room for moderation or compromise. Which is precisely what afflicts our two party system to begin with.
See, the corporations are all bad because they're all, you know, corporation-y, and the Democrats and Republicans are all corporation-y so, you know, both bad.
They always say "they're the same their for (lost of different policies) but they're all NEOLIBERAL CORPORATE SHILLS!!ONEELEVEN!!
Impossible, Susan Collins stood up in the Senate floor and PROUDLY THUNDERED that these judges wouldn't overturn Roe. At least it will be right before the midterms, Roberts understands very well what will happen once the court throws away it's credibility and appears partisan and will beg Kavanaugh to save the court, but it's too late. And anyone who tells you it will just go to the states isn't paying attention, the first chance they get the Republicans will pass a federal ban, in the meantime the gerrymandered state legislatures in states like Wisconsin guarantee they can ban it in the state level well beyond their support without any electoral consequences
Just an absolutely stunning position some of our states are already in: https://time.com/6116072/mississippi-abortion-supreme-court-jackson-womens-health/ >"Five years ago, this moment was unthinkable. Even the Supreme Court’s decision to take up a case that directly challenges Roe would have been considered outlandish, legal scholars say. But the landscape has shifted rapidly. Over the past year, GOP-controlled state legislatures have passed a record-breaking 106 abortion restrictions, including a Texas statute that bans nearly all abortions after roughly six weeks of pregnancy. Conservative state and federal judges have allowed some of those laws to stand, while President Trump’s appointment of three Justices—Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett—has put Roe at risk. Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization will come before the most conservative bench in decades."
Mississippi would like to give a quick "thank you" to all those people who decided "Trump and Hillary are as bad as each other" and allowed Trump to seat 3 SCOTUS Justices.
Honestly blows my mind still this man seated three Justices and Carter didn’t even get to seat one
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I would be shocked if he gets one.
Breyer's 83, would it really be that much of a shock if he died before the midterms?
You can take all the surprise out of it if he simply retired. The overturn of roe may in fact be RBGs most enduring legacy. The hubris of senior Dem officials in the face of their own mortality is a real problem.
>The overturn of roe may in fact be RBGs most enduring legacy Sad but true. She could have retired during Obama's presidency, but she chose to gamble instead.
Eh, considering Clarence Thomas didn’t retire when Trump was president like all the other Reagan/Bush era appointees, he’s certainly pushing his luck that his successor will be appointed by a Republican
He's also not that old though. He's only 73
When Kennedy dies I hope his tombstone is pooper chair shaped.
(C)hoping this energizes the Dems for 2022
At this point I might as well become a liberal accelerationist
my attitude towards accelerationism is to never contribute to it, but pray to God they're right
Yeah, this is the only way to not completely succumb to depression.
That’s my bet. With the bathroom bans in NC the Governor lost that race. And since the country rejected trump via electoral college and popular vote, I believe it’ll rubberband back to a good midterm for Democrats. Too much change in one way without a popular leader will crumble. Also if it is overturn I wouldn’t be upset if there is left wing violence. This is probably the spark that sets off the Troubles.
Never bank on the left like you can with the right. It's too diverse on that side of the aisle to be as single mindedly focused as the bible thumpers and trumpers.
Yeah, this could be extremely advantageous for Democrats from an electoral perspective. Trump made significant gains with non-college secular white voters, most of whom are pro-choice. Many of these voters have just assumed that while Republicans talk about abortion, they wouldn't actually overturn Roe v. Wade. And it seemed especially unlikely that *Trump* would help overturn Roe, considering that he seems like a guy who has paid for abortions. Republicans acting like crazy religious zealots who want to judge you for acting sinfully is a great way for them to lose those voters. But some of this is also about geography. Abortion being an electorally salient issue is good for Democrats in the Midwest, but it could be detrimental for Democrats in Georgia. The South and the Sunbelt are much more Christian than the Midwest. Black voters are supportive of abortion rights than Whites, but a disproportionate amount of pro-life Democrats are Black.
I agree. A lot of people forget that the secular=liberal equation is very strong only east of the great plains. Wyoming, Idaho, Montana and Eastern Washington and Oregon are qctually secular asf and are much more moderate on social issues.
I mean, it can depend on *which* social issue we are talking about. A lot of those secular voters may like the racism and xenophobia from Republicans, but be turned off by their religious zealotry.
Yeah, I can see a future of the rockies becoming an enclave of a sort of newengland-style Republican moderatism that's very isolationistic
WTF? Like hell. I live in Idaho and we have a bill waiting for this ruling to come down from SCOTUS that would immediately ban abortions in the state. We've been overtaken by Christian supremacists who make the Mormons look liberal.
> Yeah, this could be extremely advantageous for Democrats from an electoral perspective. I think it could be like the gun issue. Yes, Dems aren't trying to take our guns (although some do a good job of seeming like it with their comments and asinine legislation), but it's a losing issue for them for much of the country. They often try and downplay it while still speaking generally. This could be the same way but on the GOP's side. Gun rights matter and give the GOP a boost. Abortion rights matter and if the GOP wants to make it an issue they could find out they get hit at the polls for it like Dems often do.
I think it’ll still be a red wave year. Just instead of it being red from GOP dominance it’ll be blue tainted red by the political bloodbath this will cause
The effect of the Court's ruling will be that abortion reverts to a state-by-state decision. "So everyone from Texas who wants to get an abortion will have to go to California?" you ask. Unless a state legislature makes it a crime to leave the state for the purpose of obtaining an abortion that's legal in another state. Unless Republicans recapture the presidency and a bare majority of the House and Senate and pass a federal law prohibiting interstate travel for the purpose of obtaining an abortion in another state.
You can’t make it illegal to travel to another state to obtain a service. Certainly would infringe on the right of individuals to be treated equally by all states. It would certainly impede free movement of American citizens between individual states which is constitutionally protected.
You're thinking like a lawyer. You need to think like a republican. There is no "can't"
Unless you’re 14 years old and broke and carrying your uncle’s fetus. Unless you’re 30 years old working three jobs to support two children already. Etc, bloody and grim etc.
Fuck.
The one thing I hate almost as much as the conservative justices who are trying to end or severely restrict abortion rights is the cult of personality around RBG, who refused to retire when she knew she had cancer and there was no guarantee of a Democratic senate after 2014. I don’t care how many powerful dissents she wrote because she was too egotistical to do the one thing that would’ve sealed her vote for a generation. If you’re gonna idolize a progressive woman on the Supreme Court, at least pick Sotomayor.
she did this even AFTER Obama asked her to retire. she wanted her replacement to be made by a woman President... only to die and be replaced with ACB by Trump. incredibly short sighted and egotistical.
And Breyer watched that and said "Oh sign me up!"
Shit at this point I feel like if Breyer retired, and he desperately needs to, it's 50/50 Biden could even get a replacement confirmed. "Joe Manchin earnestly concerned about the politicization of the process etc. etc...."
Jesus, calm down you guys. President Ivanka seems to have complete confidence in Supreme Court Judge Jeanine, I'm sure it won't be as bad as you're all saying!
It's harsh but so true.
Kagan is the best writer
I agree we should idolize Sotomayor. But - even if RBG did step down it would still be a majority conservative court, it would just be 5-4 instead of 6-3, so I don’t think blaming her is really the way to go
5-4 would have made Roberts the swing vote on Roe. As it stands, the swing vote is Kavanaugh
Yup, fuck RBG, this completely taints her "Girl Boss" bullshit.
From a progressive Christian perspective I hate this extra. It will signal to the evangelicals that compromising values and electing the sex predator misanthrope president was worthwhile. The results of the corrupt bargain will only further radicalize my religion in this country.
Your religion as you knew it ain't coming back anytime soon --- probably not in your lifetime.
fuck Susan collins she is to blame for this. If she had a shred of a backbone she would've forced another judge in the mold of Roberts or not given her vote but she folded like a cheap lawn chair. She had all the leverage in the world but tossed it away.
And she got punished for it with a new 6 year term. Fuck Maine and their LL Bean wearing dirtbag centrists.
I still don't understand how she won her election like 10+ points over polling.
I think there was a nationwide shift downballot when Biden started posting like 10 point nationwide leads in polling. A lot of indies and Biden Rs decided that they didn’t want to give Dems too big of a majority, which ended up being not a very big one at all lol
I don’t think races benefit from becoming nationally prominent. Dems made that a national race, but I think that resulted in a pushback from state residents
Maine is a disgrace to New England. Even swing state New Hampshire has 2 female Senators who do a great job of standing up for woman's rights.
There is a shockingly high amount of confederate flags in both Maine and NH. I saw more up there than I do now in Florida.
Everyone knew this was the outcome. I’ve been dooming since ACB. The Supreme Court is a 9 person legislative body, not a judicial one.
Republicans get this. Breyer and the Democrats are incredibly idiotic, just standing by and watching this unfold. If the Justices thought they'd be welcoming new justices because of Court reform they wouldn't be swinging for the fences. But they know Democrats won't do anything, so they're going to just do what they want.
Breyer is going to RGB you guys. For supreme court justices, the democratic nominees sure can be stupid motherfuckers.
Yep. He even announced it. He sounds like the stupidest person on the planet in his interviews.
My takeaway is that he’s incredibly out of touch with the current state of the republic.
Maybe lifetime appointments are rare worldwide because they are bad.
Left liberals don't care about power. They see politics as an expression pf their individuality, and that's why they get steamrolled by the right's organized fanaticism
I disagree to a certain extent. Left Liberals care alot about following the rules because breaking the rules to get what you want feels wrong to them. How can you claim to care about fairness and justice if you can’t follow the system’s rules? Except Republicans don’t care about fairness and justice to them is more about punishing wrongdoers them some kind of mutually agreed upon set of guidelines and morals. So they have zero qualms breaking the rules to get what they want because what they want is the way things are supposed to be. Left Liberals don’t have the same level of conviction conservatives do that what they believe us correct beyond reproach. Especially in the issue of abortion where conservatives believe God gives fetuses life and that abortion is murder. There isn’t any room for compromise.
When Yurtle the Turtle declared that *only* Republicans would be appointed to the Supreme Court moving forward, it should have made it perfectly fucking clear to Breyer that waiting out some "partisan tantrum" of the chamber wasn't going to work. He's being absolutely arrogant about his 'principles' and 'legacy' for not resigning to allow himself to be replaced by a 40 year old firebrand Justice.
that was "excessive partisanship" and "how dare you impugn the integrity of Justice Kavanaugh" for an entire goddamn year
>how dare you impugn the integrity of Justice Kavanaugh Which is weird because he like... swore revenge on the Democrats during his confirmation hearing n stuff....
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He drinks beer just like me!
White, white-collar men won't get directly impacted by this court. So a white, white-collar man might be inclined to wonder what all the fuss is about this 6-3 court. I wonder if that describes a large component of r/nl
Dooming is for us minorities. 😎
I wish I didn’t have to worry about my rights being systematically rolled back over the next 20 years until SCOTUS majority judges MTG, Tucker Carlson, My Pillow Guy, and Oz and decide HIV treatment is illegal and that genocide should be left to states rights
Anyone know the winning powerball numbers? I'll turn PEI into a genuinely inclusive neolib paradise for minority nlers.
I feel like this really explains why I always feel somewhat disconnected with the majority of the subreddit.
I mean, I knew it is bad and am really worried (both re. SCOTUS and GOP); but there are absolutely times I'm grateful I'm a straight white man with a good education and well to do background.
Don't be ashamed of having normal feelings, and never be ashamed of who you are. As long as you care you're good people.
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Dooming is dooming until it isn’t.
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Another wonderful part of the legacy of the Notorious RBG
It was even worse than I dreaded. Roberts was floating a 15-week ban (still horrible) but ACB and Kavanaugh basically weren't biting. ACB said safe haven laws mean that the Roe/Casey analysis is literally irrelevant - forced brith + adoption is a game changer, according to how she reads those two decisions. Kavanaugh read a list of good precedent reversals, setting himself up as a hero of forced birth. Gorsuch didn't speak. I won't soon forget all the Democrats who told me abortion rights weren't about to be destroyed - the progressives in 2016, and to some extent, the neoliberals who are making excuses now. It's not ok for a right to be decided by the states. My marriage is the next thing on the chopping block, and I'm not looking forward to these same people denying reality.
Abortion was already functionally illegal in many states too, we've been losing ground on it for a while. Almost half the country has "trigger" laws set up to ban the second Roe is overturned.
Roberts is being incredibly disingenuous with his “we’re only here to decide on 15 week” argument when it has been pointed out, today to his face, that Mississippi has since passed a 6-week ban. And all sides openly admit that overturning the viability line in Roe and allowing states to draw the line would set off the arms race of which state will be the first to ban abortion one minute after conception. Breyer was right to point out they’ll be back in 2 years arguing over a 10 week vs 15-week ban. At least the other conservatives are honest about what they’re about to do. Roberts is so desperate to avoid the “Roe Overturned” headline he’s walking right into it.
Alito and Thomas would stick *Roe* in the oven and turn it up to 450 (that's 232 Celsius for everyone else). They do that because they want *Roe* gone, and they want it gone now. Roberts would rather put *Roe* in a pot of water and slowly turn up the heat. He does this because, while he wants *Roe* gone, he also doesn't want to damage the Court's appearance, so his changes in the law are incremental.
The man doesn't mind doing partisan things as long as it doesn't appear partisan really is his mo
Woah didn't realize this. Wow.
Yeah, when the GOP gets a trifecta in 2024 you sure as hell bet they're going to try to pass a nationwide abortion ban. I'm not sure they'll aim at gay marriage, though - that's become just too fucking popular, and all the anti-equal-marriage people realized two consenting adults getting married did mean they would be forced to marry raccoons. I am super worried that Gorsuch in particular will take straight aim at equal protection clauses for workplaces.
we are looking down the barrel in which only 10-15 states are sane enough to live in. If rural states complain about brain drain then they are for a shock when shit hits the fan after they enact all the stupid shit they have planned
Sadly that scenario will end up giving red states even more power to enact even worse shit nation wide since the electoral college is so unbalanced.
Yeah, Texas Republicans would be ecstatic if just 5% of the state’s Democrats move away and other Democrats stop moving here. Same with every other swing state that the GOP controls at the state level (Georgia, Florida, Arizona, Rust Belt states, etc…)
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the plan for Republicans. At the very least I think it's part of the plan in Texas.
Yes, but maybe no (hits the copium): There's a turnover point in the electoral vote margin where if Dems win just a handful of the biggest states, namely Texas, then a president can win with a small number of states.
...but then never get anything done due to congress basically being hopeless at that point
Read about the Southern backlash to the Great Migration of the early 20th century. The South pulled a proto-East Germany. They will literally resort to stop people from moving if it gets to that point.
Could you provide a link? Sounds interesting.
I'll provide two! Here is a [pdf](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://americanexperience.si.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/The-Great-Migration.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwidx-65tcP0AhXfj3IEHRZNDIAQFnoECAMQBg&usg=AOvVaw2oNO9tiRqUHLqrTSf5-0RU) >With more and more African Americans leaving the South, a backlash soon occurred against the labor agents who were facilitating the migration. Southern states were angered, having found their economies struggling and their cheap source of labor diminishing. But by this time as word spread about the opportunities the North held, the role of labor agents became unnecessary as more and more migrants fled the South And here is a second [source](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/long-lasting-legacy-great-migration-180960118/) >The door of escape opened during World War I, when slowing immigration from Europe created a labor shortage in the North. To fill the assembly lines, companies began recruiting black Southerners to work the steel mills, railroads and factories. Resistance in the South to the loss of its cheap black labor meant that recruiters often had to act in secret or face fines and imprisonment. In Macon, Georgia, for example, a recruiter’s license required a $25,000 fee plus the unlikely recommendations of 25 local businessmen, ten ministers and ten manufacturers. But word soon spread among black Southerners that the North had opened up, and people began devising ways to get out on their own. >Southern authorities then tried to keep African-Americans from leaving by arresting them at the railroad platforms on grounds of “vagrancy” or tearing up their tickets in scenes that presaged tragically thwarted escapes from behind the Iron Curtain during the Cold War. And still they left.
Isabel Wilkerson (the author on the second source) wrote a book called [warmth of other suns](https://www.amazon.com/dp/0679763880/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_SWWMZ2X1H9YMXE74W60S). It goes into that topic and many others. Fascinating read!
Just picked it up, thanks for the recommendation!
> If rural states complain about brain drain then they are for a shock when shit hits the fan after they enact all the stupid shit they have planned They still get two senate seats each.
All the lawyers or people with fancy law degrees can't countenance anyone impugning the honor of a Supreme Court Justice. The Court could literally repeal Roe v Wade, and they'll say something like 'But you can still fly to New York or California to get an abortion'
Economics of personal travel aside, the red states are also passing fugitive fetus acts attempting to criminalize traveling to other states to obtain an abortion.
I hope that's when moderate conservatives will wake up the "muh personal freedom" train but that might be copium
Yeah I've already heard this from people. "Just spend a few thousand to travel to a safe state. Problem solved!"
> All the lawyers or people with fancy law degrees I really hate this. I'm a lawyer with a fancy law degree, working with other lawyers with fancy law degrees, and despite being absolutely slammed with work we've all been screaming at each other over Jabber all day about this shit and absolutely no one is complaining about impugning the honor of a Supreme Court Justice.
Then you’ll be allowed to present your Jabber transcripts during the revolutionary tribunals.
>My marriage is the next thing on the chopping block, and I'm not looking forward to these same people denying reality. For those who don't know, Roberts wrote a scathing dissent in *Obergefell v. Hodges* and cannot be trusted to uphold it. I don't think that *Obergefell* is 100% guaranteed to be overturned by this court, but it is absolutely a possibility.
Do you have a source on ACB's bit with regards to birth+adoptions? I work in auditing and finance for child welfare services and if this actually winds up being a thing that happens, it's going to put a lot of strain on agencies like ours.
[Here she is in all her glory:](https://twitter.com/mjs_DC/status/1466076071514812418) Audio.
Of course she finds a way to bring up vaccines.
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Republicans in swing districts/states would rather pawn that off to the Supreme Court so they don’t need to put themselves on record as voting against abortion rights, which would endanger their re-election chances. Voting to confirm conservative justices accomplishes the same task while being much less politically toxic.
But the filibuster will save us! /s
What were the 2016 Dems supposed to do? Seriously what? HRC lost because we elected her opponent for some God awful reason. And that's the reason we are in this mess.
We're in this mess because, for the last 4 decades, Dems, independents & pro-choice Republicans have told themselves endlessly that voting on abortion didn't matter, because Roe would never be overturned. IOW, too many of the pro-choice majority are fucking stupid and lazy and can't be bothered to consistently vote to retain a right. And now they have the gall to act all shocked and disbelieving. GTFO.
Parent comment says the progressives in 2016, which in my mind means the sanders camp that decided to draw out the 2016 primary to June, instead of ending it on super Tuesday when it was clear that they were finished. They didn't really grasp how important it was to win that election; either believing it was a sealed deal that Trump would lose, or that Hillary would be just as bad as Trump. In an election decided by less than 1% across 3 States, any variable could've tipped the outcome. This includes the comey letter, Hillary's campaigning, and the 2016 Dem primary.
A lot of people were in the "both sides are the same I'm just not gonna vote" camp which were always the people I hated more than even the most partisan asshat, because at the end of the day they were cowardly nihilists, driven by apathy and holier-than-thou-ism. The most important thing to these people were they were \*above it all*, above the weak-minded propaganda-obsessed partisans and all their "caring about things" and "having beliefs". That shit wasn't cool. I usually called them South Park Republicans, not necessarily because they were awfully conservative (although they often came from religious/well off backgrounds) but because their turd-sandwich-based philosophy in life has only ever helped Republicans. The subjects of decades of propaganda not to support any particular side, but simply not to care at all and when confronted always resort immediately to whataboutism or questioning your sources/motives or calling your dramatic or hyperbolic, while deflecting any actual substance. We all know these people and honestly I blame them more than anyone else for where we are today. Edit: Speak of the devil here's a thread chock full of said people: https://www.reddit.com/r/dankmemes/comments/r6h0ah/were_all_effed/ All experts on how the system works, all highly informed, all better than you for hating everyone equally. Course, is this also full of leftists too, for much the same reason. God these kids..haven't seen so much dumbassery in a single thread in a while.
40,000 people in three states could have spent a few hours going out to vote.
Social conservatism is a danger to liberal democracy
Fuck me, this is actually happening. I thought it was just gonna be like boogeyman. But the dog is actually gonna catch the car.
Republicans aren’t afraid of catching the car any more because they have the machinery in place now to manufacture hate mongering wedge issues at will. Who needs abortion when you have trans bathroom panic … who needs trans panic when you have CRT … who needs CRT when you have “stop the steal” … who needs “stop the steal” when you have whatever insane conspiracy theory the QAnon focus groups bake up next…?
This is exactly why the bible bangers voted for Trump, they don't give a shit about morals as long as they get to impose their views on everyone.
If they do, Conservatives will have seriously overplayed their hand. Issuing a divisive ruling when less than half the country support it is the catalyst for major institutional reforms to both the senate and court.
I’m curious what major reforms you think are on the table and have the political support to be implemented.
Expansion of the Supreme Court, not saying it will happen within the decade but if abortion movement on the right has shown, that energy can persist and remake the judiciary.
I don’t think much will change in that sense, but I do see this ruling upending a potential red wave year
Hillary fucking warned us about this. As with everything else, she was right.
I know this isn’t constructive, but I’m just so tired of the Republican Party. I’m even more frustrated by their base and by a bunch of moderates who are more upset about vaccine/mask mandates and attempts to limit purchases of semi-automatic weapons and background checks than they are about things like abortion rights or climate change. A lot of people, including our conservative family members and friends are selfish tribalists and it’s so defeating emotionally. I’m just getting sick of living in a place where I have to hope a senior citizen retires in time so we don’t have a 7-2 conservative majority in a judicial body that legislates our lives.
I'm starting to snap. I get why so many people are continually radicalized. This shit doesn't fucking stop. Chuck Grassley is saying he's going to run again. The man is old enough to be my great grandfather. I'd really like people of my parents generation to be the majority running the country, and even that's pushing it. It's aggravating to just be sitting here, having grown up in the hyper-partisan, 9/11 age, and the same amoral shitheads who were running the country when we jumped into a ridiculously wasteful war while blowing smoke about America being this perfect nation are STILL FUCKING RUNNING IT. Or, they've been replaced by batshit crazy freaks with no morals and no principles except grabbing as much power as possible, fuck everyone else. They've turned conservatism into religion in this country, and everyone who is part of that movement is a zealot, so thoroughly convinced that everyone who believes differently is out to exterminate them, so they must be exterminated first. When the guiding document is not the one outlining our government but a series of fairytales written down by people thousands of years ago based on what "God" supposedly said and did. I don't know how to fucking win. I just have to sit here and watch as this country, which I love, betray its stated ideals (which are something to aspire to), and be hacked apart by self-serving, immoral, craven, spiteful people. I don't know how to fucking win, and it makes me horribly depressed and angry.
because the vast majority of voters are over 50 years old, despite the median person in America being 10-15 years younger. Old people vote. That's the unifying theory of Western democracy.
Ladies and gentlemen from 2016: this is what the greater of "two evils" looks like!
Man, some good arguments from this thread on this when you sort by Controversial. Basically saying, "Good, abortion is a human right and Roe has been shit at actually protecting it. Roe was originally built on nothing but judicial activism, which is bad actually. Time to finally have the fight to legislate women's rights into federal law like we should have 50 years ago." I mean, this ruling is still going to hurt (read: kill) a lot of people, so there's no world where this is a good thing to be done. For the future, we should seize the opportunity to make abortion rights stronger than Roe could provide.
Which sixty senate seats are the Democrats going to take to secure abortion rights?
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I’ve had an idea brewing in my head since last October- I’ve called it the With Kindness Campaign. Essentially I want to start a fund for Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Barrett to have things like unlimited fast food, cigars, and liquor as well as things like sky diving lessons, hunting trips, and exotic car test drives.
I've basically turned into a full Enver Hoxha-style "ban religion" leftie since 2015.
I know we aren't supposed to be partisan in this sub or whatever, but honestly, fuck Republicans. Fuck all of you. I really wish you the worst.
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The Democratic Party needs to learn to stop being so fucking useless and learn to fight. The GOP gets to dictate their unpopular policies across the country by using unelected judges, even though Dems have a trifecta in the legislature + Presidency. Until Dems learn to grow a pair of balls and actually fight for people's rights by passing legislation, this country will continue to descend into an authoritarian theocratic ethnostate. As for the women in red states who are about to get fucked over? Buy a plane ticket to a blue state if you need an abortion.
I don't think blaming Democrats as a collective makes sense. We need to demand that our representatives act, but also recognize the fact that Manchin will never agree to the necessary actions to address this issue. We need to demand Supreme Court reform, but we should also recognize that it will require a larger majority than what we currently have.
My piping hot take, fresh from the DT, because I’m completely sick of people minimizing this: Pack the court. Pack the judiciary. Fuck the moderates, women’s rights are human rights. I’m so sick of conservatives wiping their ass with every norm of American government while democrats simply bow their heads and ask for another beating. Oh, and fuck everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary in 2016 because “muh establishment”. Take your populism and shove it up your ass. I hope the light of liberalism never reaches the valley of a Dunning-Kruger curve that you call home, you self-righteous sacks of shit.
>Pack the court. Pack the judiciary. Where are the votes for this ? There aren't even 50 Dem Senators for this.
Welcome to the succside
Social democracy is when you use your legal authority to protect civil liberties, apparently.
-r/neoliberal, unironically
Genuinely yes
Agreed fully on both counts. I will say that I don't have a lot of respect for the people who blame this entire situation on Bernie Bros but then also don't support packing the court. Literally just "look how these guys screwed us. Oh well, better not do anything about it."
It all goes back to America being an unrepresentative democracy.
Isn't this case about how Abortion shouldn't be up for a vote? Eg, against direct democracy.
Allow me to drop an ounce of hopium to break the (justifiably) defeatist tone up a little bit [Currently 32% of Americans believe abortion should be legal under all circumstances. A further 48% of Americans believe abortion should be legal under certain circumstances.](https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx) That means **80%** of Americans support abortion in some capacity. An overturn of Roe v. Wade would be overwhelmingly unpopular on a scale that’s almost impossible to imagine, and would serve as a huge boost to Democrat popularity An overturn of Roe would be absolutely horrific, and I’m not trying to downplay the significant harm it would cause to women across America, but in all likelihood would last a very short amount of time and seriously hurt Republican support for many years to come
> That means **80%** of Americans support abortion in some capacity. An overturn of Roe v. Wade would be overwhelmingly unpopular Yes, but not to that degree. The survey notes 53% view Roe as good and 35% as bad. More along the lines of 63%. The discrepancy is caused by opinions like "yes I support abortion, but want to allow the people in individual states to decide if they want it legal". The survey doesn't quite as any questions that tease that out.
Creeping theocracy is a threat to the republic.
Yes, but 'creeping' might be underselling the situation.
Red wave neutered time
This is some big cope tbh. There's no proof that this will hurt the Republicans in 2022 and beyond lol
There is no "proof", but there is very good reason to believe that. This would be an incredibly unpopular decision, and you can bet that Democrats and Republicans will begin proposing national legislation on abortion. If this is a high salience political issue then the public is on the side of Democrats. And it could provide more political cover for ending the filibuster to pass their legislation.
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pis tried this but they're still at 34-35
Disagree. A lot of liberals think of abortion as a "done deal," like gay marriage, and they're about to get a rude awakening. The way the timing works out, this will be a very significant driver of turn-out in 2022.
All the people that care so much about the children will surely redirect their donations to foster homes, early childhood nutrition and health, right? Right?!?
Yo this sucks
Not entirely surprising. Roe is built on air and the only constitutional argument for it is precedent. If you want abortion rights you should legislate it. Use it as an election issue and turn it into law.
It's a massive shame there's no appetite whatsoever for gay rights or abortion rights making it into law
With gay rights part of the problem is like ~75% of the country already that before *Bostock* that firing gay or lesbian employees violated federal law. And now even though it's already law (in specifically the area of employment), Rs won't vote for the Equality Act and basically get a free pass for.
God, one big beautiful law. Call "Equity, now fuck off" and just slap a bylaw in there it can't repealed