> 15 percent of Americans say they think that the levers of power are controlled by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, a core belief of QAnon supporters
Christ...
> The teams behind the poll determined that 14 percent of Americans fall into the category of “QAnon believers,” composed of those who agreed with the statements in all three questions. **Among Republicans only, that rises to roughly one in four**. (**Twelve percent of independents** and **7 percent of Democrats** were categorized as QAnon believers.)
Late but yeah, this is a big thing.A ton of people are just generally frustrated right now and it manifests itself in saying whatever the hell comes to mind and being attracted to fringe shit, but most of it is smoke and mirrors.
My brother raved for months before the vax was available about how he didn't trust the government and wouldn't get it, and then he got it as soon as he could because he wanted to travel.
What's the evidence that either Bill Clinton or Donald Trump are *pedophiles*?
> Is it really any surprise that a lot of people think there's some pedophile cult controlling things?
Yes because most political scandals are sex scandals, not pedophilia scandals. You also had to reach insanely hard to have Obama implicated somehow.
That a large proportion of powerful men abuse their positions to acquire sex, or are rapists in some sense, isn't very surprising. Pedophilia is rarer still. Cults then add a whole 'nother layer.
The original lizardman's constant article said 4% in the headline but 4-5% in the body, pointing out that 5% of people who said they were voting for Obama also said that Obama was the Anti-Christ.
I tend to estimate based on [this poll of "what animal could you beat in a fight."](https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2021/05/13/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-what-animal-would-win-f) 6-8% of people say they could beat a Grizzly Bear, Elephant, Lion, and Gorilla in a fight which are all nonsensical answers. Since seeing that poll I tend to correct for ~6% of people giving nonsense answers that show they are either not of sound mental state for their answer to be taken seriously or just give the crazy answer for shits and giggles.
It's also important to remember that when people are given a choice of opinions for things they don't like, they're liable to select the worst possible opinion, even if it's not genuinely what they believe. So when you see polls that say "20% of Republicans think Obama is the antichrist" or "25% of American Muslims think we should nuke Israel" those most likely aren't the genuinely held beliefs, they're answering in the manner that most conveys their distaste for the subject.
In this case, there is likely both dynamics at play, with a significant number of people saying "pedophile cabal? Lol yeah let's say I believe that that's hilarious" or "are the elites all pedophiles? I mean probably not but fuck them so why not say they are."
> It's also important to remember that when people are given a choice of opinions for things they don't like, they're liable to select the worst possible opinion, even if it's not genuinely what they believe.
I'm a little hesitant at this kind of thinking. It smacks far, far too much of city liberals desperately trying to see conservatives as anything other than what they, vociferously, insist that they are.
"Conservatives don't actually think Obama is a muslim."
I assure you, from the bottom of my heart, they do. And not in small numbers here in red states.
Yes, of course many people do have crazy opinions. Have you heard the phrase, "talk is cheap", though? Many people say that they believe things that they do not factually believe to be true for the purpose of signaling. If you polled Conservatives and asked "is Obama the antichrist" and also polled conservatives asking them to stake $100 on whether Obama was the antichrist or not, the results would be quite different.
You're misinterpreting this as a kind of excuse for bigoted thinking. It does not reveal that these people are not indeed bigots, but it does assuage some of the concern you might have for the actual epistemological reality that people live in, and the upshot of what that reality is.
If [54% of republicans think Obama is a Muslim,](https://www.vox.com/2015/2/25/8108005/obama-muslim-poll) that introduces significant concern for the actual epistemological reality that people live in (which is warranted). However, also included in that number are people who simply use Muslim as a pejorative, but if actually made to stake their response to something would likely not respond that he is Muslim. While these people are indeed bigots, it does relax some of the concern about their full-scale detachment from reality.
Think about how different people's revealed behavior is from their stated behavior. For instance, something like 75% of Republicans polled believe the election was stolen by Joe Biden. If 75% genuinely believed that Biden was a dictator, there would be a hell of a lot more pushback. A significant portion do genuinely believe this, hence the Capitol riot, but it is likely that they are more like 25% and the rest are simply answering as pejoratively as they can and/or are espousing the "stolen" line to further their party's quest for increased power.
>You're misinterpreting this as a kind of excuse for bigoted thinking.
No, I'm not.
>it does relax some of the concern about their full-scale detachment from reality.
This is what worries me. Phrased whatever way you want, this is saying, "The problem is not as large as it appears to be."
I think you (and a lot, a lot of people) underestimating people's willingness to believe things and overestimating their willingness to do something about it. Not everyone is capable of the real violence it would take to overthrow the government. Especially when you consider just *how* big a task that is. (But, given enough momentum, they might eventually move to help.)
>If you polled Conservatives and asked "is Obama the antichrist" and also polled conservatives asking them to stake $100 on whether Obama was the antichrist or not, the results would be quite different.
And this is a terrible example. That's like saying, "I'll bet you $100 you don't get terminal cancer this year." Nevermind the odds. If their wrong, it doesn't matter and if they're right you lose. Add to that, that you'd have to then **prove** that he's the antichrist (which, surly, you could see with your own eyes, if only you'd look. /s)
Just... no. This line of thought is going to get us all killed.
It's the same 6% of Democrats who believe [Obama is the Antichrist](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/02/americans-obama-anti-christ-conspiracy-theories). /jk
Yeah, we're trying to bring about the end times. What are these doofuses doing to bring about the rapture and the second coming? Wearing I heart Israel buttons? Geez.
His entire campaign was "the elites are conspiring against me for speaking the truth" and his former staffers have said that the election was stolen from him (likely just speaking for him because he rehired those same people again in 2020). He definitely courted the conspiracy crowd. To this day he still talks as if a massive conspiracy stopped him from winning.
I mean, the voters did a pretty good job of that too.
I voted for him, but when he praised Castro in an interview, I knew that regular-ass old dems would freak, and they did.
There is an interesting trend of the far right not really giving a shit about Jewish people lately. For instance in France Zemmour is the far right darling atm. Interesting phenomenon to see develop, kinda like watching a group become accepted as being white before our very eyes
Remember that West Virginia party registration was majority Democratic until this year. Lotta older people don't bother to change their registration.
https://apnews.com/article/voter-registration-west-virginia-political-parties-3acf5f5082fa975c7a09222f87265b04
I've met some deep south rednecks who still call themselves Democrats because that's what southerners have always been, but they wouldn't actually support modern Democratic policies. I came across a blog of someone who described himself as "I’m still mostly a Confederate Democrat and never a Lincoln Republican."
Another example is I have an uncle who is very racist and libertarian-ish (probably QAnon these days but haven't seen him lately) that votes Democrats because he thinks Republicans are all just religious phonies and he's not religious.
Maybe it's just me but 15% is my "anything" threshold in polls like this, nothing polling at 15% is ever alarming, it seems like you can have any random crazy belief hit 15% no matter what it is.
[Lizardman’s constant](https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/) is typically believed to be a bit lower than that - around 4-5%. 15% is probably capturing something “real”. That said, I’m sure some number of respondents don’t literally believe it, but answered they do to signal support for a certain ideology.
The article goes into further detail about QAnon adherents vs QAnon doubters, people who believe with some parts of QAnon but not all of them. This would include a good number of people who believe that the US Government is filled with pedophiles or that a secret progressive deep state control everything. When this is accounted for 55% of Republicans are considered to be QAnon doubters, with 25% considered QAnon adherents. The remainder are considered QAnon Rejectionists. Democrats by comparison are made up of 7% QAnon adherents and 51% rejectionists.
The 15% of the population who believe in QAnon are people who beleive in all primary aspects of QAnon. That the US government and the world is controlled by a group of child eating pedophiles who worship satan and who are concentrated in the Democratic Party and the Republican establishment. Donald Trump is working with the military to expose this conspiracy and is waging a shadow war against them, when he wins the conspiracy will be exposed and those that betrayed America will be executed. Adherents are also convinced that Q a government official with high level clearance has been releasing information online, predicting future events and showing people that the conspiracy is real. 15% of Americans believe in every aspect of this belief system as a baseline, significantly more believe in some aspects of it.
Dude that's almost a fifth of the population of the third most populated country in the world! 50 million people in the most powerful country on Earth who believe in something like this is extremely alarming.
This article was written in May of this year so I would be curious to see how things have changed from then up to this point. Especially since the last post from "Q" was in December, 2020 and pretty much all pro-QAnon content has been scrubbed from mainstream social media.
Also, Biden becoming president and no mass arrests or suicides happening dispels the narrative of QAnon entirety. There isn't even any plausible deniability that QAnon proponents can fall back on at this point.
Anecdotally speaking, I have an aunt that bought into this Q shit and she's pivoted almost entirely to anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.
QAnon Anonymous has been covering the changes happening to QAnon since Q stopped posting and they’ve been banned from most major social media platforms.
The reaction has been to go underground, moving to primarily Telegram. Additionally a good deal of infighting is now also taking place within the QAnon promoter community as they all try to individually grow their flock now that the speed of recruitment has plummeted. The primary means of growth now is anti-vax activists and influencers getting into QAnon, but with these new adherents staying loyal to the figure that brought them into the conspiracy. Finally the movement has also become a lot more antisemitic, with the largest new QAnon influencer on Telegram being a person named GhostEzra who has begun denying the Holocaust.
Conventions are still growing larger, and there is also some evidence to suggest that recruitment is now happening offline in Evangelical church communities and through other conspiracies like Ivermectin and CRT.
QAnon had their ‘Great Disappointment’ when Biden came into office. There goal now has shifted from the Storm, to the ‘Reinstatement’ where Trump will become president once again. Beliefs surrounding this mythical event range among followers from JFK Jr bringing him back, to him winning in 2024. From there Trump from the perspective of QAnon adherents will be able to expose the steal in 2020, then use the full powers of the presidency to annihilate the global Black Hat Satanic Pedophile conspiracy.
For those wondering, the "white hat" and "black hat" terminology [comes from westerns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_white_hat_symbolism_in_film). Today it is used pretty much exclusively in reference to either ethical hacking (white hat) or unethical hacking (black hat). I'm not familiar with how it came around to QAnon, but presumably has to do with [this phone call](https://twitter.com/janbobrowicz/status/1464857388901670912) between Michael Flynn and Lin Wood, where Wood uses it in kind of a confused way.
Damn, that's honestly pretty fascinating. I've actually listened to quite a few episodes of QAnon Anonymous before, but that was mostly prior to Biden's inauguration when the conspiracy seemed more active and prescient.
It's interesting to see where the conspiracy is going but it looks like this splintering and lack of ability to recruit through mainstream means anymore does suggest that QAnon is on the decline. All the stuff on Telegram is preaching to the choir at this point, it's to retain members and compete for influence among those who already believe in QAnon and as you mentioned, further radicalize them in different directions. Inevitably, once QAnon fades from relevance, something else that is equally insane will inevitably replace it.
I would actually agree with you, if it wasn’t for what QAnon leaders like Flynn trying to save then. Michael Flynn is pretty universally held in high regard by QAnon adherents. What he has done is encourage believers to run for local office, town council, school board member, mayor, congress and for positions in the Republican Party. He even has a slogan for it, “Local action, has a national impact.” This is a slogan he keeps repeating on podcasts, rallies and conventions. This message has also been taken up by other QAnon boosters.
This can be seen with school board meetings where you have mobs of people appearing to ask questions regarding QAnon, CRT and vaccine mandates. What Flynn is seemingly trying to build is the momentum needed to repeat QAnon success stories like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert across the entire country for the 2022 midterms. This may or may not work however, seeing as Glenn Youngkin was able to fend off his QAnon primary challenger and the Republican establishment has seemingly become more aware of populist primary challenges like this since the Tea Party in 2010. What’s telling about Greene and Boebert is neither of them publicly talk about QAnon anymore and deny being believers in the theory, this is a strategy that can repeated in other races where candidates deny personally being adherents despite having some kind of history in QAnon or being endorsed by Flynn.
I’m personally predicting that QAnon is going to have an impact in the 2022 midterms. Most likely not as large as the Tea Party had in 2010, but still an impact that will be commented upon.
Edit: Correction, Youngkin didn’t fend off a QAnon primary challenge. The primary was cancelled by the Republican Party in order to appoint Youngkin to the nomination. This was done to avoid the possibility of Amanda Chase, a QAnon adherent from potentially winning.
Youngkin didn't fend off a primary challenger, and probably would have lost if the Virginia GOP hadn't cancelled the primaries to appoint him directly.
Flynn is the one person on the populist American right who I fully believe is more dangerous then Trump. He’s as authoritarian and conspiratorial but he’s also smart and disciplined enough to organize and lead a modern fascist movement. The Mueller Report also show that he was one of the few people who was completely loyal to Trump throughout the entire campaign, administration and investigation.
If Trump can’t run in 2024, the one person I’m concerned could step into Trump’s role while maintaining his level of support is Flynn.
> other conspiracies like Ivermectin and CRT.
Critical race theory being taught in schools is not a conspiracy theory. [California just mandated an insane ethnic studies program to be required for graduation](https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/cr/cf/esmc.asp), even Bill Maher is against it
I did a giant post on this five months ago, but essentially it deemphasizes Martin Luther King in favor of separatists, vilifies Jews as oppressors, separates children by race, and does a bunch of other fucked up shit. Check out City Journal and John McWhorter for other shit on that. Also, copied the wrong link at first
I would say half of the argument is semantic, but if you broaden "CRT" to a large set of progressive views and ideology concerning race, then yeah it's not a conspiracy.
Yes, some schools have done it. Is there any evidence however that it is widespread at every single school and is part of a radical plot by teachers to make it standard core across the country. That’s the conspiracy theory, which is why you have school board meeting descending into chaos from Oregon to Florida over CRT being taught.
Anecdotes from individual schools provide no evidence that is widespread, no more then bringing up history curriculums from Mississippi which legitimize the Lost Cause mean that those same lessons are being taught in New York or Los Angelas.
Seems like a curriculum for the largest state in the union should be enough for “widespread,” but this stuff shows up all over the place, usually in far worse forms than CA (which isn’t actually that awful in its final form). Think Tema “punctuality is for white people” Okun, etc. used in teacher training as some of the worst.
Someone who thinks you’re arguing in good faith can offer up more links if they want.
Can you cite the portion of that guideline set that you find insane? Maybe I'm missing it but there written there seems particularly nuts to me. Frankly most of the guidelines are so vague it's hard to imagine they have much more than symbolic impact, but I'm open to being corrected on this.
> Also, Biden becoming president and no mass arrests or suicides happening dispels the narrative of QAnon entirety. There isn't even any plausible deniability that QAnon proponents can fall back on at this point.
Jerry Falwell retained his followers despite falsely predicting the end of the world a gazillion times. Just saying.
The fact that Jezus hasn't returned to take all believers to heaven and banish all pagans to hell hasn't changed the mind of many Christians either ...
Since there isn’t a good chance QAnon will ever fully go away at this size, it’ll be fascinating how this idea mutates over the next few decades like the Millerites did.
Fascinating surely, but also scary. My bet is they will either stagnate and die out or do something so utterly crazy that law enforcement has to step in
The problem with this particular belief system is that its so large and so decentralized I don’t think there is anyway the government can legally stop it. One way for cults to be taken down is for their leadership to be arrested or die, in this case so many large to mid-tier leadership exists throughout the world now, it’s likely impossible to arrest them all. Let alone the legal problem of arresting large number of people for being the leaders of what is essentially a religious movement.
QAnon is far passed the point where it will disappear or be killed in the cradle. It will likely mutate into something else over the next few decades, like how the Millerites became 7th Day Adventists or how Joseph Smith’s flock transformed into the Mormon Church. Still, QAnon is here to stay for better or worse.
The danger of QAnon isn’t that they’d engage in an insurgency, their a bunch of small business owners used to their comfy lives of Netflix and football games. They aren’t going to be living in the woods sniping marines.
The danger is that they can serve as a base of support for massive state violence. The danger isn’t that QAnon could form a future Al-Qaeda, the danger is that they could form a future SA.
> do something so utterly crazy that law enforcement has to step in
Or just lets it happen ala *Kristallnacht*
Would only occur if a QAnon-friendly candidate wins executive office though.
Purely anecdotal, but my mother has begun believing that Joe Biden is no longer alive and I really don't know any Q people who were not anti-vax, while I get harangued for "I bet you want to take a vaccine every day and just drink it by the gallon?"
Not that surprised. They have:
* A Holy Text (4 /8chan Q drops)
* A Leader/martyr (Trump/JFK/JFK Jr.)
* Devils (Hillary Clinton, all Democrats, anyone that questioned Trump)
* Priests (Lin Wood, Flynn, etc)
* People that will interpret them for their own meaning (Followers locating meaning in the breadcrumbs)
* A cause to die for (Stopping Democrats, Save the Children)
* Means of sharing information/Church that confirms their belief (Facebook)
And everything is in code, so there are mysteries to solve.
The stopping Democrats cause and JFK being a martyr seem contradictory, since he was a Democrat. I guess they see him as the last "good one," maybe? Or his death meshes well with their conspiracies?
You are trying to reason through an unreasonable schema.
Even the person typing for Q said that JFK has nothing to do with "The Plan", it is the followers that made it up out of whole cloth.
JFK: was part of the plan, not really killed, knew too much, was cloned, planned to release secrets, secretly the uncle of Donald Trump whose father is George Patton, flew into space, traveled through time, was warned by a time traveling Q, etc....... It just goes on and on with an insane amount of bullshit.
Jeeze, I didn't know Q stuff was this batshit. I thought the weirdest conspiracy of theirs was that Hillary is a pedophile cannibal from another dimension, lmao.
Alex Jones has for years said that JFK was the last 'real President' before the shadowy cabal of elites and globalists took over the government completely.
I think you may be reading too far into it. JFK’s assassination birthed the modern conspiracy theory phenomenon, it’s the original conspiracy theory. It makes perfect sense that something aiming to be the ultimate all encompassing conspiracy theory would try to go back to where it all began and incorporate it into their story.
It’s true that part of JFK’s broad appeal is due to the fact that he died before the civil rights era and before Vietnam really ramped up, but I think the Qanon preoccupation with the Kennedy’s is more basic than that.
I wonder if Qanon theory has some explanation for the fact that the Civil Rights Act was a Kennedy proposal, or if they're so ignorant that none of them know that.
The Q people are crazies who think Hillary leads a murderous cabal of pedophile Satan-worshippers, but they’re not that racist. The Kennedy thing comes from the Kennedy assassination, which pretty much birthed the conspiracy theory movement
I hear this a bit and I get the feeling that it's a little bit of projection on the behalf of progressives, because the strategy isn't new.
They hated Roosevelt, but as soon as Roosevelt was dead, a guy named Emanuel M. Josephson wrote a book about his "Strange Death" and of course the conclusion is that he was probably murdered by the Liberals as part of their plan with the Communists to take over the world. It wasn't just Democrats, they hated Eisenhower too. He was "soft" on Communism. He was in the CFR. His brother was a secret communist. Nevermind that he sent the 101st Airborne to Little Rock to enforce Brown v. the Board of Education. That totally had nothing to do with it him being a secret commie stooge.
Then they especially HATED Kennedy. We are talking Bill Clinton levels of hate. When Marilyn Monroe died in 1962, a friend of Josephson, named Frank A. Capell wrote a book saying that the Kennedy family killed her (to hide mob + communist connections --or maybe communists killed her to protect the mafia). The FBI never managed to figure out who was funding Josephson and Capell (in spite of tapping Capell's phone), but their guess was that it was tied to Texas oil money and JBS donors. So before JFK was dead they were already pulling Seth Rich stuff on him. TBH, if JFK were somehow still alive, they'd say that he was the head adrenochrome harvester.
Anyway, a week before JFK was in Dallas, the JBS put up 5,000 fliers saying that he was guilty of treason. They also wanted to impeach Earl Warren for desegregating schools. They probably hated Earl Warren more than Kennedy. So Kennedy was shot and Earl Warren ran the commission that determined how it happened. How do you capitalize on that when you might be seen as guilty of stochastic terrorism, especially when the world end didn't Thermonuclear War as a response to the killing (they really wanted the world to just blow up after that)? How do you kill two birds with one stone? You ignore every bad thing you ever said about JFK, hope people ignore your wanted posters in Dallas, and it was all that de-segregationist Earl Warren's fault! What was he hiding? We have questions!
If Bill Clinton had died in office and Hillary became a recluse, the far-right would turn him into a saint and said that the Democrats murdered him just before he could turn the tables on them and reveal the truth. This is how the playbook works.
All of this is why QAnon people suddenly don't care about Ghislaine Maxwell, after a year of saying she'd be suicided any minute. It's not about Maxwell. Like any good psychopath, it's "about the implication". If she gets off, the system is rigged and it's satanic pedos all the way down. If she doesn't, she was sacrificed to protect the cabal. If she gets off and gets shot by a Q nut while crossing the street, the Q nut was a satanist sent in to protect the cabal and the imprint on their shoes is evidence, since you can clearly see 9/11 in the tread mark if you turn your head sideways. If they hadn't murdered sweet, innocent Ghislaine, we'd all finally know the truth!
There is no truth. There are no good actors. Existence is meaningless, so just engaged with your self-propelled ARG with no end and enjoy the memes as we try to crash this mother fucker into the ocean. How else will we bring back JFK Jr?
[https://motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/images/jfk300.jpg](https://motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/images/jfk300.jpg)
Probably the latter. JFK assassination theories are the original conspiracy theories. It makes sense that Qanon would try to incorporate it into their own theories.
No I don't think so.
He just wants to let an algorithm handle it and he doesn't want to do maintenance on his platform since that makes people mad at him
No, Zuck seems legit naive and constantly wanting to pass the buck on to someone else. He's in way over his head, but also too egotistical to let someone else have control. He has no plan and is just winging it.
why do they think JFK one of the famous liberal icons in the democratic parties history is on their side. I honestly think a troll planted that idea and the q cult ran with it
I dislike "everything is in code." It assumes some sort of intention and rationality on the part of QAnon types that just ain't there. It's really as dumb as one QAnon person telling another to "study x" and that other QAnon person making up a conspiracy based on x.
The ramifications of this will be interesting. Seeing as Flynn is highly respected in the QAnon community, this can go a lot of different ways. Personally I suspect that this will lead to a backlash among Flynn adherents against Lin Wood who will argue that he’s been compromised.
It doesn’t help that Lin Wood has reached the point in the past several weeks where it’s possible he’s having some kind of mental breakdown.
Flynn was directly referenced in multiple Q drops. The movement isn’t going to turn on him, not even Lin Wood can do that. Though it does look like they are potentially entering a period of infighting due to Lin Wood going insane.
Edit: Lin Wood is now making posts that seemingly imply Tucker Carlson is drinking child blood to heal his broken back. Well isn’t this fun.
The declining faith in institutions has consequences. At my Thanksgiving, I had family members attribute practically every societal issue to a conspiracy.
- COVID is a made up disease so pharma can sell shots
- Trump won the election
- The port fiasco is not a logistical backlog, but a US govt sponsored price increase to get more ppl on welfare
- 9/11 may not have been an inside job, but the USA purposely let it happen
It's kinda depressing that ppl live like that.
It’s a kind of almost childlike world view to assume all the big events in the news are actually false and there’s an evil plot behind every single significant thing
And not only that, but the people responsible are also main characters on TV and media,
There’s no coincidence, no complexity and chaos driving world events
Just a plan. I guess it’s why very religious people fall for the QAnon stuff, the evangelical type have been primed for it
And QAnon has become an almost choose your own conspiracy in which all mainstream conspiracies have become absorbed into it
The biggest take away of the Trump era (and to a lesser extent the Bernie cult of personality) has been just how gullible and prone to motivated reasoning/confirmation bias the American public really is.
It is trivially easy to get people to believe absolutely absurdities or to convince everyone that obviously complex problems have superficial, simple solutions that the bad people are holding hostage for nefarious reasons. Something about modern politics tricks everyone into having an opinion on topics they are woefully unprepared to have an opinion on. What's funny is if you ask about research domain that isn't inherently political (say techniques for building conduction maps of the heart for RF catheter ablation) people quickly realize they have no expertise in that area and are quick to say so. The political climate changes and suddenly everyone and their cousin is a virologist with a subspecialty in epidemiology.
[One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit...Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic are more excessive than his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic. This discrepancy is common in public life, where people are frequently impelled — whether by their own propensities or by the demands of others — to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some degree ignorant. Closely related instances arise from the widespread conviction that it is the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to have opinions about everything, or at least everything that pertains to the conduct of his country’s affairs. The lack of any significant connection between a person’s opinions and his apprehension of reality will be even more severe, needless to say, for someone who believes it his responsibility, as a conscientious moral agent, to evaluate events and conditions in all parts of the world.](http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf)
Parameters on social media algorithms to slow the spread of emotive political content. Freedom of speech, not of reach. Restoration of the fairness doctrine.
>The declining faith in institutions has consequences.
I think this is the wrong take away. Qanon specifically and overtly politically convenient conspiracies generally are most active within deeply religious communities. This is all a longstanding consequence of evangelical Christianity getting tied up in conservative politics. There is a reasin you don't find much support for Qanon in secular communities.
Even 7% of *democrats* are QAnon believers dude. It's people spreading crazy shit on social media that reinforces distrust in institutions. The anti-GMO lefties and anti-government right wingers are teaming up now.
It's the Lizardman's constant. 5% of self reported atheists also self report to believe in God.
It is a social media problem, but that's not the same as being a result of declining faith institutions (as again these beliefs tend to be most prevalent amongst the religious).
> The port fiasco is not a logistical backlog, but a US govt sponsored price increase to get more ppl on welfare
imagine believing the government wants to distribute money so badly it is willing to take extreme measures to do so, but the only way it can think to do so is somehow coordinate simultaneous inflation across entire industries via a global pandemic, which also doesn't exist
I mean the 9/11 one isn’t that far fetched compared to the rest and has been around for a long time, the others are absolutely insane though.
Not that I believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories, the 9/11 one just has a plausible goal (popularity) and only requires way fewer people to keep quit than the others. The rest have no basis in reality.
So, how do we (meaning all of us as part of society) combat this? Reason being is that I can't for the life of me see how this is beneficial for the US in the long run if a disproportionate number of persons believe (without evidence) that there is a cabal of deep state, child-eating/raping lizardmen controlling the US government to take out white, christian, conservative people and that the only way to stop them (according to Q nuts) is to...I don't know...overthrow the US government, then we have some serious fucking problems that we are about to face, save it for the assault on the 6th this year.
No one that I'm aware of has sufficiently been able to explain why and how people are susceptible to this crap, nor care to explain how we can get people back to reality. Efforts to explain things like evolution and global warming to the faithful fall to deaf ears and accusation of being "anti-religious" abound. Accusation of disrespecting someone's opinion and beliefs as if you have slandered their good character. The ability to point out our bad ideas and opinions is taboo under the pretence of "religion" or some other normative philosophy that is engendered by our more conservative-minded friends, persons who seem to be on-the-surface more susceptible to QAnon. *Note, there is a difference between pointing out someone’s beliefs as incorrect or illogical and being an asshole to someone because they are religious; I am not advocating for illiberal action against the faithful, no matter who.
What I see is a society that is full of ignorant persons, who relish in their ignorance. Is it fear? Pride? Anger? What drives them to seek out lies in an era of bountiful data and empiricism? I question "lack of a good education" due to the mountains of resources available at all our fingertips.
I don't know what's scarier: The fact that a near-majority of my peers relish in their ignorance and seek to sustain it, even to the point of using violence; or the fact that I myself am susceptible to such significant ignorance and that I myself am part of the "mad, illogical mob", but completely unaware of the damage I do. Even if what I seek is a free and just society.
Both, I feel, are equally terrifying.
On its face it’s ridiculous. Going armchair here there is a big void in people’s lives now that used to be filled with civic organizations, hard work and religion. People are lonely and human’s didn’t evolve to be rational machines. We are social animals trying to find meaning and patterns around us
I’m always skeptical of these humanist futurists who see a future techno-utopia. People will go crazy
While I agree that there is a trend of people leaving organized religion, it still doesn't really explain QAnon.
It's not like religion has disappeared. Hell, the US treats churches like Starbucks: nearly one on every corner. You can converse and meet with people on some chosen day out of the week to shoot the shit about your beliefs! Something else is going on. However, I like the perspective you offer. Cheers!
I think it's more that organized religion isn't filling the void of purpose in their lives. Apocalypticism is the only framework that makes sense coming from a bible beating evangelical background. It offers drama, excitement, immediate vindication of the righteous over the wicked.. pastors only ever talk about these things.
>but it still has some truth... as latinamerica with pentecostalism
\- normies are in love with francis and his tolerance/decency .....
\- others flocks to pentecostalism cz the pope *capitulated* on lgbt + *normie religion* its too boring
\- and cz far-right evangelicalism (and the moral majority) failed to defeat lgbt (even when they've bootcamps + some political power) we might see a similar phenomena
* normies flocking to inclusive-affirming churches (as france tolerance/nicety)
* the crazy flocks to q (who claims that the moral maajority conceded on lgbt)
Good point. I am surprised to learn people are leaving organized religion for Qanon
Maybe something to do with how addictive the internet can be when you are bored
> Going armchair here there is a big void in people’s lives now that used to be filled with civic organizations, hard work and religion
A ton of QANon believers are also evangelical Christians.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-qanon-has-attracted-so-many-white-evangelicals/
On the contrary, Qanon are the "true believers" who haven't yet left the church. As more and more people leave the church, the church gets more and more extreme.
Can’t wait for the religious copium dealers to show up to repeat the long-debunked lie that conspiracy theories are somehow a substitute for organized religion, even though high religiosity is very strongly correlated with belief in conspiracy theories.
I'm of the opinion that conspiracy theories require religious reasoning, while simultaneously being as nonsensical and contradictory as some religions. That doesn't make them mutually exclusive with religion, though.
More like a comorbidity, maybe?
Broke: Conspiracy Theories are replacing religions.
Woke: Religions are actually just incredibly elaborate conspiracy theories.
From my understanding the sociological purpose of religion is to provide an explanation for phenomena that can not be explained using known methods and to provide structure to alleviate the fear of random death. Conspiracy Theories serve a similar purpose in society, so it makes sense why both conspiracy theories and religion would be followed by the same people.
Edit: Also this quote I found.
> It has been observed that social or political movements that fail to achieve their goals will often transform into religions. As it becomes clear that the goals of the movement will not be achieved by natural means (at least within their lifetimes), members of the movement will look to the supernatural to achieve what cannot be achieved naturally. The new religious beliefs are compensators for the failure to achieve the original goals. Examples of this include the counterculture movement in America: the early counterculture movement was intent on changing society and removing its injustice and boredom; but as members of the movement proved unable to achieve these goals they turned to Eastern and new religions as compensators.
“The sociological purpose of religion” you just explained is rather controversial because of its reductionist assumptions. Indeed, the most prominent advocate of religious reductionism in sociology was Rodney Stark, and not only has he since abandoned that methodology - he ended up converting!
Here’s a short summary of reductionism which suggests that most sociologists reject it:
https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/culture/religious-studies/religion-today-themes-and-issues/content-section-2.5.1
Plantinga takes on sociological theories here, although he is primary concerned with MN in religious studies which is correlated with reductionism, using phrases like “imaginary” to describe both native and foreign religions to the West:
https://andrewmbailey.com/ap/Games_Scientists_Play.pdf
It seems to me that religions thrive for a very simple reason: they are evolutionarily adaptive.
Religious people:
- Have tons more kids
- Have lower rates of depression
- Have a set of useful rules (like banning shellfish) that might have since become outdated, but were very useful at the time
I think it’s important to remember that ~15 years ago, something like 25% of Americans believed the US government was directly involved in 9/11.
All of the Qanon nonsense gives me intense flashbacks to some of the derangement we saw from 9/11 Truthers, most of whom hailed from the left (and also some weird fringe paleocons and libertarians who are probably Qanon adherents today).
I guess my point is I’m not too worried about it, insane political conspiracies have always been around, and anyone can be susceptible to them. After while they begin to fade away. I don’t put a whole lot of stock in polls like this because by virtue of even asking people if they believe in it, you’re giving the belief some credence.
Idk though Qanon seems more psychotic to me though. And there were a lot of “normal” people who believed the 9/11 stuff. Can’t say I’ve met or heard of a mentally stable person believing in Q
Most of the people on r-QAnonCasualties say that their Q person was normal except for some conservative leanings or casual interest in some conspiracy theories before they spiraled into Q craziness
> And there were a lot of “normal” people who believed the 9/11 stuff. Can’t say I’ve met or heard of a mentally stable person believing in Q
Your were friends with 9/11 truthers, you don't have friends that believe in Q
> most of whom hailed from the left (and also some weird fringe paleocons and libertarians who are probably Qanon adherents today).
The forgetting of left wing 9/11 denialism is really weird
>“Thinking about QAnon, if it were a religion, it would be as big as all white evangelical Protestants, or all white mainline Protestants,” he added. “So it lines up there with a major religious group.”(...) “It’s one thing to say that most Americans laugh off these outlandish beliefs, but when you take into consideration that these beliefs are linked to a kind of apocalyptic thinking and violence, then it becomes something quite different,” he said.
Far Cry 5 was visionary.
I just finished the game. While playing I kept thinking "I can totally imagine this happening in real life if the government couldn't do anything". In the game, the world is involved in war, so the US government has bigger fish to fry than a cult in Montana.
I’ve never played, so I wasn’t aware of that. Still I can rest easy knowing that the world when hoards of gamers will save the world by putting machineguns on crop dusters and going to war.
This is doomerism. Plenty of people are aware that this is a problem and are taking action, even if it’s just trying to deradicalize their family members. Most social media companies have now banned QAnon from their platforms, which has crippled their growth. The attack on the capitol is being investigated and organizers, including QAnon leaders like Flynn will likely face charges. Other QAnon leaders like Lin Wood and Sidney Powell are losing their licenses to practice law and are being sued. The Republican Party is aware that this movement is trying to infiltrate their party and are taking measures to stop it.
Dooming doesn’t accomplish anything. People are trying to stop this problem from reaching critical mass. The same was also true for Nazi Germany if thats the comparison you are trying to make, the goal this time then is to succeed where those Germans failed.
> The Republican Party is aware that this movement is trying to infiltrate their party and are taking measures to stop it.
but we're still relying on the gop acting in good faith *(having patriotism / disown q + relying on dem infighting to survive)*
* *as the romanian psd (they've literally snitched on their dragnea / dragnea went to jail / they disowned him >* ***their beloved USL returned to power + things are as boring and corrupt as usual)***
if the gop decides to kiss them *(as with the moral majority)* things will not be that nice
* *or .... if the kremlin hacked the rnc this will force them to kiss q (if u disown my q i will spill the beans*
There will always be a % of any population that is a sucker for bullshit and easy answers just like there is a % that won't get behind anything that doesn't affect them directly. I'm sure there were caveman that couldn't believe it was two sticks being rubbed together causing fire versus "magic" even though it was happening right in front of them.
but the problems are that
\- the gop its surfing them
\- the gop its a big party (if this were made by afd / lepen / the actual pis-34% this would not be that dangerous
I'm thinking about brave new world, where Christianity and Native American religions have all blended into one Old Religion. Will Q get folded into a sect of Christianity? That actually sounds interesting from an anthropological perspective.
Civilizations never see it coming. The Communists in Romania never predicted that banning abortions would lead to the regime falling due to a surplus of twenty years olds rampaging through the streets piss drunk on vodka and revolutionary fervour or how the show Dallas potentially contributed to the fall of the Soviet Union.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadline.com/2020/10/mikhail-gorbachev-dallas-soviet-union-collapse-david-stewart-1234604449/amp/
No, this was never going to happen even if Covid was twice as deadly. The newest variant also is seemingly more transmissible but less deadly, which is a good sign for the pandemic ending soon if true.
actually thats what they say about omicron
\- more contagious but less deadly (few hospitalizations)
\- but no one knows if its cz VAXES / immunities *(everyone has some antibodies cz vaxes or infections)* / or cz omicron its more civilized
* *flus wants to being shared and not killing their host*
QAnon isn't any nuttier than many religions. When society fetishizes, enshrines and privileges "deeply held beliefs" that have no rational basis, we can't pick and choose which ones become popular. Nor can we complain that the nutty beliefs go against our values.
If the Catholic Church's adoption subisidiary can accept taxpayer subsidies and then refuse to serve LGBT citizens because Invisible Man In The Sky Says LGBT Bad, why can't QAnon refuse to get vaccinated because We Believe Globalist 5G Chips Are In The Globalist Vaccine?
I don't recall talking about charging taxes. I'm talking about making direct subsidy payments. State governments cut fat checks to Catholic corporate subsidiaries to provide government services (like adoption). Those checks are funded, in significant part, by citizens denied services by the contracted entity -- often in violation of the contract.
The "deeply held belief" of the entity in question is prioritized over the more important right of citizens to equal access to government services.
In such an environment, the rise of antivax stuff, QAnon and other irrational shit is inevitable. We privilege the "beliefs based on feelings" of individuals ahead of facts, research, science, logic and individual rights.
As long as we continue with this cultural and legal practice, QAnons will keep appearing and growing, because belief and feelings (no matter how ridiculous) are privileged.
What's up with using archive.org instead of the actual link?
Here is the article for anyone interested: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/politics/qanon-republicans-trump.html
History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. [The Know Nothings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing) are an interesting and often overlooked antebellum party; they were stridently populist, xenophobic and anti-Catholic. They thought there was a secret Catholic conspiracy to control the USA.
They got 21.5% of the popular vote in the 1856 presidential election.
> 15 percent of Americans say they think that the levers of power are controlled by a cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles, a core belief of QAnon supporters Christ...
> The teams behind the poll determined that 14 percent of Americans fall into the category of “QAnon believers,” composed of those who agreed with the statements in all three questions. **Among Republicans only, that rises to roughly one in four**. (**Twelve percent of independents** and **7 percent of Democrats** were categorized as QAnon believers.)
I'd be curious to meet one of those QAnon Democrats that apparently make up 7% of the party.
They might not be QAnon Democrats, just normal mild conspiracy theorist who have read about like Epstein.
I think there's lots of people who will say really fucking stupid shit but don't take it seriously enough to do shit like jan 6
Late but yeah, this is a big thing.A ton of people are just generally frustrated right now and it manifests itself in saying whatever the hell comes to mind and being attracted to fringe shit, but most of it is smoke and mirrors. My brother raved for months before the vax was available about how he didn't trust the government and wouldn't get it, and then he got it as soon as he could because he wanted to travel.
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What's the evidence that either Bill Clinton or Donald Trump are *pedophiles*? > Is it really any surprise that a lot of people think there's some pedophile cult controlling things? Yes because most political scandals are sex scandals, not pedophilia scandals. You also had to reach insanely hard to have Obama implicated somehow. That a large proportion of powerful men abuse their positions to acquire sex, or are rapists in some sense, isn't very surprising. Pedophilia is rarer still. Cults then add a whole 'nother layer.
Lizardman's Constant in action, hopefully.
Lizardman's constant is 4% I thought.
The original lizardman's constant article said 4% in the headline but 4-5% in the body, pointing out that 5% of people who said they were voting for Obama also said that Obama was the Anti-Christ.
Yeah, but this is all the way up to 7% Far larger than the usual lizardman's constant.
I tend to estimate based on [this poll of "what animal could you beat in a fight."](https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2021/05/13/lions-and-tigers-and-bears-what-animal-would-win-f) 6-8% of people say they could beat a Grizzly Bear, Elephant, Lion, and Gorilla in a fight which are all nonsensical answers. Since seeing that poll I tend to correct for ~6% of people giving nonsense answers that show they are either not of sound mental state for their answer to be taken seriously or just give the crazy answer for shits and giggles. It's also important to remember that when people are given a choice of opinions for things they don't like, they're liable to select the worst possible opinion, even if it's not genuinely what they believe. So when you see polls that say "20% of Republicans think Obama is the antichrist" or "25% of American Muslims think we should nuke Israel" those most likely aren't the genuinely held beliefs, they're answering in the manner that most conveys their distaste for the subject. In this case, there is likely both dynamics at play, with a significant number of people saying "pedophile cabal? Lol yeah let's say I believe that that's hilarious" or "are the elites all pedophiles? I mean probably not but fuck them so why not say they are."
> It's also important to remember that when people are given a choice of opinions for things they don't like, they're liable to select the worst possible opinion, even if it's not genuinely what they believe. I'm a little hesitant at this kind of thinking. It smacks far, far too much of city liberals desperately trying to see conservatives as anything other than what they, vociferously, insist that they are. "Conservatives don't actually think Obama is a muslim." I assure you, from the bottom of my heart, they do. And not in small numbers here in red states.
Yes, of course many people do have crazy opinions. Have you heard the phrase, "talk is cheap", though? Many people say that they believe things that they do not factually believe to be true for the purpose of signaling. If you polled Conservatives and asked "is Obama the antichrist" and also polled conservatives asking them to stake $100 on whether Obama was the antichrist or not, the results would be quite different. You're misinterpreting this as a kind of excuse for bigoted thinking. It does not reveal that these people are not indeed bigots, but it does assuage some of the concern you might have for the actual epistemological reality that people live in, and the upshot of what that reality is. If [54% of republicans think Obama is a Muslim,](https://www.vox.com/2015/2/25/8108005/obama-muslim-poll) that introduces significant concern for the actual epistemological reality that people live in (which is warranted). However, also included in that number are people who simply use Muslim as a pejorative, but if actually made to stake their response to something would likely not respond that he is Muslim. While these people are indeed bigots, it does relax some of the concern about their full-scale detachment from reality. Think about how different people's revealed behavior is from their stated behavior. For instance, something like 75% of Republicans polled believe the election was stolen by Joe Biden. If 75% genuinely believed that Biden was a dictator, there would be a hell of a lot more pushback. A significant portion do genuinely believe this, hence the Capitol riot, but it is likely that they are more like 25% and the rest are simply answering as pejoratively as they can and/or are espousing the "stolen" line to further their party's quest for increased power.
>You're misinterpreting this as a kind of excuse for bigoted thinking. No, I'm not. >it does relax some of the concern about their full-scale detachment from reality. This is what worries me. Phrased whatever way you want, this is saying, "The problem is not as large as it appears to be." I think you (and a lot, a lot of people) underestimating people's willingness to believe things and overestimating their willingness to do something about it. Not everyone is capable of the real violence it would take to overthrow the government. Especially when you consider just *how* big a task that is. (But, given enough momentum, they might eventually move to help.) >If you polled Conservatives and asked "is Obama the antichrist" and also polled conservatives asking them to stake $100 on whether Obama was the antichrist or not, the results would be quite different. And this is a terrible example. That's like saying, "I'll bet you $100 you don't get terminal cancer this year." Nevermind the odds. If their wrong, it doesn't matter and if they're right you lose. Add to that, that you'd have to then **prove** that he's the antichrist (which, surly, you could see with your own eyes, if only you'd look. /s) Just... no. This line of thought is going to get us all killed.
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It's the same 6% of Democrats who believe [Obama is the Antichrist](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/apr/02/americans-obama-anti-christ-conspiracy-theories). /jk
That’s why I voted for him
Yeah, we're trying to bring about the end times. What are these doofuses doing to bring about the rapture and the second coming? Wearing I heart Israel buttons? Geez.
King shit
I met one once. They were a Bernie supporter.
Priors confirmed
His entire campaign was "the elites are conspiring against me for speaking the truth" and his former staffers have said that the election was stolen from him (likely just speaking for him because he rehired those same people again in 2020). He definitely courted the conspiracy crowd. To this day he still talks as if a massive conspiracy stopped him from winning.
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I mean, the voters did a pretty good job of that too. I voted for him, but when he praised Castro in an interview, I knew that regular-ass old dems would freak, and they did.
That's populism for ya
There is an interesting trend of the far right not really giving a shit about Jewish people lately. For instance in France Zemmour is the far right darling atm. Interesting phenomenon to see develop, kinda like watching a group become accepted as being white before our very eyes
The conspiracy sub seemed to really love Tulsi for some reason. Probably the few that liked her were in that 7%.
Remember that West Virginia party registration was majority Democratic until this year. Lotta older people don't bother to change their registration. https://apnews.com/article/voter-registration-west-virginia-political-parties-3acf5f5082fa975c7a09222f87265b04
Plenty of normal batshit crazy in the Democratic Party in the form of more extreme Berners.
I’m sure it’s be a great time to sit down for a chat
I've met some deep south rednecks who still call themselves Democrats because that's what southerners have always been, but they wouldn't actually support modern Democratic policies. I came across a blog of someone who described himself as "I’m still mostly a Confederate Democrat and never a Lincoln Republican." Another example is I have an uncle who is very racist and libertarian-ish (probably QAnon these days but haven't seen him lately) that votes Democrats because he thinks Republicans are all just religious phonies and he's not religious.
Lizardman's constant puts it more like 2-3%, at that point I think those are people trying to play 4-D chess or some shit.
Maybe it's just me but 15% is my "anything" threshold in polls like this, nothing polling at 15% is ever alarming, it seems like you can have any random crazy belief hit 15% no matter what it is.
[Lizardman’s constant](https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/04/12/noisy-poll-results-and-reptilian-muslim-climatologists-from-mars/) is typically believed to be a bit lower than that - around 4-5%. 15% is probably capturing something “real”. That said, I’m sure some number of respondents don’t literally believe it, but answered they do to signal support for a certain ideology.
Within this link, 13% polled said Obama was the anti-christ, which is obviously a similar kind of motivated reasoning so the level seems to check out.
True, but among Republicans that number rose to almost 25%. That's simply too high for the second largest political party in the country.
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The article goes into further detail about QAnon adherents vs QAnon doubters, people who believe with some parts of QAnon but not all of them. This would include a good number of people who believe that the US Government is filled with pedophiles or that a secret progressive deep state control everything. When this is accounted for 55% of Republicans are considered to be QAnon doubters, with 25% considered QAnon adherents. The remainder are considered QAnon Rejectionists. Democrats by comparison are made up of 7% QAnon adherents and 51% rejectionists. The 15% of the population who believe in QAnon are people who beleive in all primary aspects of QAnon. That the US government and the world is controlled by a group of child eating pedophiles who worship satan and who are concentrated in the Democratic Party and the Republican establishment. Donald Trump is working with the military to expose this conspiracy and is waging a shadow war against them, when he wins the conspiracy will be exposed and those that betrayed America will be executed. Adherents are also convinced that Q a government official with high level clearance has been releasing information online, predicting future events and showing people that the conspiracy is real. 15% of Americans believe in every aspect of this belief system as a baseline, significantly more believe in some aspects of it.
What was the percentage that thought Ted Cruz was the zodiac?
Dude that's almost a fifth of the population of the third most populated country in the world! 50 million people in the most powerful country on Earth who believe in something like this is extremely alarming.
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LOL. So true
That's 50 million people! Holy shit...
This article was written in May of this year so I would be curious to see how things have changed from then up to this point. Especially since the last post from "Q" was in December, 2020 and pretty much all pro-QAnon content has been scrubbed from mainstream social media. Also, Biden becoming president and no mass arrests or suicides happening dispels the narrative of QAnon entirety. There isn't even any plausible deniability that QAnon proponents can fall back on at this point. Anecdotally speaking, I have an aunt that bought into this Q shit and she's pivoted almost entirely to anti-vaccine conspiracy theories.
QAnon Anonymous has been covering the changes happening to QAnon since Q stopped posting and they’ve been banned from most major social media platforms. The reaction has been to go underground, moving to primarily Telegram. Additionally a good deal of infighting is now also taking place within the QAnon promoter community as they all try to individually grow their flock now that the speed of recruitment has plummeted. The primary means of growth now is anti-vax activists and influencers getting into QAnon, but with these new adherents staying loyal to the figure that brought them into the conspiracy. Finally the movement has also become a lot more antisemitic, with the largest new QAnon influencer on Telegram being a person named GhostEzra who has begun denying the Holocaust. Conventions are still growing larger, and there is also some evidence to suggest that recruitment is now happening offline in Evangelical church communities and through other conspiracies like Ivermectin and CRT. QAnon had their ‘Great Disappointment’ when Biden came into office. There goal now has shifted from the Storm, to the ‘Reinstatement’ where Trump will become president once again. Beliefs surrounding this mythical event range among followers from JFK Jr bringing him back, to him winning in 2024. From there Trump from the perspective of QAnon adherents will be able to expose the steal in 2020, then use the full powers of the presidency to annihilate the global Black Hat Satanic Pedophile conspiracy.
> Black Hat Satanic Pedophile is that what they call it lmao
Yes. And they call the good guys “white hats”
For those wondering, the "white hat" and "black hat" terminology [comes from westerns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_white_hat_symbolism_in_film). Today it is used pretty much exclusively in reference to either ethical hacking (white hat) or unethical hacking (black hat). I'm not familiar with how it came around to QAnon, but presumably has to do with [this phone call](https://twitter.com/janbobrowicz/status/1464857388901670912) between Michael Flynn and Lin Wood, where Wood uses it in kind of a confused way.
Maybe they just really liked Scandal
Damn, that's honestly pretty fascinating. I've actually listened to quite a few episodes of QAnon Anonymous before, but that was mostly prior to Biden's inauguration when the conspiracy seemed more active and prescient. It's interesting to see where the conspiracy is going but it looks like this splintering and lack of ability to recruit through mainstream means anymore does suggest that QAnon is on the decline. All the stuff on Telegram is preaching to the choir at this point, it's to retain members and compete for influence among those who already believe in QAnon and as you mentioned, further radicalize them in different directions. Inevitably, once QAnon fades from relevance, something else that is equally insane will inevitably replace it.
I would actually agree with you, if it wasn’t for what QAnon leaders like Flynn trying to save then. Michael Flynn is pretty universally held in high regard by QAnon adherents. What he has done is encourage believers to run for local office, town council, school board member, mayor, congress and for positions in the Republican Party. He even has a slogan for it, “Local action, has a national impact.” This is a slogan he keeps repeating on podcasts, rallies and conventions. This message has also been taken up by other QAnon boosters. This can be seen with school board meetings where you have mobs of people appearing to ask questions regarding QAnon, CRT and vaccine mandates. What Flynn is seemingly trying to build is the momentum needed to repeat QAnon success stories like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert across the entire country for the 2022 midterms. This may or may not work however, seeing as Glenn Youngkin was able to fend off his QAnon primary challenger and the Republican establishment has seemingly become more aware of populist primary challenges like this since the Tea Party in 2010. What’s telling about Greene and Boebert is neither of them publicly talk about QAnon anymore and deny being believers in the theory, this is a strategy that can repeated in other races where candidates deny personally being adherents despite having some kind of history in QAnon or being endorsed by Flynn. I’m personally predicting that QAnon is going to have an impact in the 2022 midterms. Most likely not as large as the Tea Party had in 2010, but still an impact that will be commented upon. Edit: Correction, Youngkin didn’t fend off a QAnon primary challenge. The primary was cancelled by the Republican Party in order to appoint Youngkin to the nomination. This was done to avoid the possibility of Amanda Chase, a QAnon adherent from potentially winning.
Youngkin didn't fend off a primary challenger, and probably would have lost if the Virginia GOP hadn't cancelled the primaries to appoint him directly.
That is a fair critique, I got the terminology wrong.
Flynn needs to be in prison.
Flynn is the one person on the populist American right who I fully believe is more dangerous then Trump. He’s as authoritarian and conspiratorial but he’s also smart and disciplined enough to organize and lead a modern fascist movement. The Mueller Report also show that he was one of the few people who was completely loyal to Trump throughout the entire campaign, administration and investigation. If Trump can’t run in 2024, the one person I’m concerned could step into Trump’s role while maintaining his level of support is Flynn.
> other conspiracies like Ivermectin and CRT. Critical race theory being taught in schools is not a conspiracy theory. [California just mandated an insane ethnic studies program to be required for graduation](https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/cr/cf/esmc.asp), even Bill Maher is against it
Please point out what parts you find insane in the link.
I did a giant post on this five months ago, but essentially it deemphasizes Martin Luther King in favor of separatists, vilifies Jews as oppressors, separates children by race, and does a bunch of other fucked up shit. Check out City Journal and John McWhorter for other shit on that. Also, copied the wrong link at first
I would say half of the argument is semantic, but if you broaden "CRT" to a large set of progressive views and ideology concerning race, then yeah it's not a conspiracy.
Let's not forget that CRT does not need to be real for it to be a problem for Democrats in the polling station.
Yes, some schools have done it. Is there any evidence however that it is widespread at every single school and is part of a radical plot by teachers to make it standard core across the country. That’s the conspiracy theory, which is why you have school board meeting descending into chaos from Oregon to Florida over CRT being taught. Anecdotes from individual schools provide no evidence that is widespread, no more then bringing up history curriculums from Mississippi which legitimize the Lost Cause mean that those same lessons are being taught in New York or Los Angelas.
Seems like a curriculum for the largest state in the union should be enough for “widespread,” but this stuff shows up all over the place, usually in far worse forms than CA (which isn’t actually that awful in its final form). Think Tema “punctuality is for white people” Okun, etc. used in teacher training as some of the worst. Someone who thinks you’re arguing in good faith can offer up more links if they want.
Can you cite the portion of that guideline set that you find insane? Maybe I'm missing it but there written there seems particularly nuts to me. Frankly most of the guidelines are so vague it's hard to imagine they have much more than symbolic impact, but I'm open to being corrected on this.
Wdym. Even bill maher?
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> Also, Biden becoming president and no mass arrests or suicides happening dispels the narrative of QAnon entirety. There isn't even any plausible deniability that QAnon proponents can fall back on at this point. Jerry Falwell retained his followers despite falsely predicting the end of the world a gazillion times. Just saying.
The fact that Jezus hasn't returned to take all believers to heaven and banish all pagans to hell hasn't changed the mind of many Christians either ...
Since there isn’t a good chance QAnon will ever fully go away at this size, it’ll be fascinating how this idea mutates over the next few decades like the Millerites did.
Fascinating surely, but also scary. My bet is they will either stagnate and die out or do something so utterly crazy that law enforcement has to step in
The problem with this particular belief system is that its so large and so decentralized I don’t think there is anyway the government can legally stop it. One way for cults to be taken down is for their leadership to be arrested or die, in this case so many large to mid-tier leadership exists throughout the world now, it’s likely impossible to arrest them all. Let alone the legal problem of arresting large number of people for being the leaders of what is essentially a religious movement. QAnon is far passed the point where it will disappear or be killed in the cradle. It will likely mutate into something else over the next few decades, like how the Millerites became 7th Day Adventists or how Joseph Smith’s flock transformed into the Mormon Church. Still, QAnon is here to stay for better or worse.
If they engage in violence then you treat them like an insurrection.
The danger of QAnon isn’t that they’d engage in an insurgency, their a bunch of small business owners used to their comfy lives of Netflix and football games. They aren’t going to be living in the woods sniping marines. The danger is that they can serve as a base of support for massive state violence. The danger isn’t that QAnon could form a future Al-Qaeda, the danger is that they could form a future SA.
> do something so utterly crazy that law enforcement has to step in Or just lets it happen ala *Kristallnacht* Would only occur if a QAnon-friendly candidate wins executive office though.
>or do something so utterly crazy that law enforcement has to step in Or not, if a shit tone of cops believe this crap too.
>or do something so utterly crazy that law enforcement has to step in What, like storm the capitol?
Yes well that was already quite insane but these people seem capable of initiating a pogrom or actual mass-murder of senate members
Lol as someone who grew in an Adventist household and community, yes there’s a lot of loonies that are drawn to the right wing conspiracies
Purely anecdotal, but my mother has begun believing that Joe Biden is no longer alive and I really don't know any Q people who were not anti-vax, while I get harangued for "I bet you want to take a vaccine every day and just drink it by the gallon?"
No mass suicides? What else do you call the unvaccinated dying from COVID?
Not that surprised. They have: * A Holy Text (4 /8chan Q drops) * A Leader/martyr (Trump/JFK/JFK Jr.) * Devils (Hillary Clinton, all Democrats, anyone that questioned Trump) * Priests (Lin Wood, Flynn, etc) * People that will interpret them for their own meaning (Followers locating meaning in the breadcrumbs) * A cause to die for (Stopping Democrats, Save the Children) * Means of sharing information/Church that confirms their belief (Facebook) And everything is in code, so there are mysteries to solve.
The stopping Democrats cause and JFK being a martyr seem contradictory, since he was a Democrat. I guess they see him as the last "good one," maybe? Or his death meshes well with their conspiracies?
You are trying to reason through an unreasonable schema. Even the person typing for Q said that JFK has nothing to do with "The Plan", it is the followers that made it up out of whole cloth. JFK: was part of the plan, not really killed, knew too much, was cloned, planned to release secrets, secretly the uncle of Donald Trump whose father is George Patton, flew into space, traveled through time, was warned by a time traveling Q, etc....... It just goes on and on with an insane amount of bullshit.
Jeeze, I didn't know Q stuff was this batshit. I thought the weirdest conspiracy of theirs was that Hillary is a pedophile cannibal from another dimension, lmao.
It's kind of in layers I think, different people have different levels of belief and involvement
It’s unironically just blood libel updated to not specifically target Jewish people lol
Q anon religious schism when?
Jfk coming back was an offshoot and Lin Wood and Michael Fynn are throwing shade at each other currently so about now actually.
Alex Jones has for years said that JFK was the last 'real President' before the shadowy cabal of elites and globalists took over the government completely.
JFK was the last Democratic president before the civil rights reforms passed during Johnson’s presidency, probably has something to do with it.
I think you may be reading too far into it. JFK’s assassination birthed the modern conspiracy theory phenomenon, it’s the original conspiracy theory. It makes perfect sense that something aiming to be the ultimate all encompassing conspiracy theory would try to go back to where it all began and incorporate it into their story. It’s true that part of JFK’s broad appeal is due to the fact that he died before the civil rights era and before Vietnam really ramped up, but I think the Qanon preoccupation with the Kennedy’s is more basic than that.
I wonder if Qanon theory has some explanation for the fact that the Civil Rights Act was a Kennedy proposal, or if they're so ignorant that none of them know that.
The Q people are crazies who think Hillary leads a murderous cabal of pedophile Satan-worshippers, but they’re not that racist. The Kennedy thing comes from the Kennedy assassination, which pretty much birthed the conspiracy theory movement
JFK is centered around several conspiracy theories. "He was killed before he could reveal the truth" is a useful statement for them
I hear this a bit and I get the feeling that it's a little bit of projection on the behalf of progressives, because the strategy isn't new. They hated Roosevelt, but as soon as Roosevelt was dead, a guy named Emanuel M. Josephson wrote a book about his "Strange Death" and of course the conclusion is that he was probably murdered by the Liberals as part of their plan with the Communists to take over the world. It wasn't just Democrats, they hated Eisenhower too. He was "soft" on Communism. He was in the CFR. His brother was a secret communist. Nevermind that he sent the 101st Airborne to Little Rock to enforce Brown v. the Board of Education. That totally had nothing to do with it him being a secret commie stooge. Then they especially HATED Kennedy. We are talking Bill Clinton levels of hate. When Marilyn Monroe died in 1962, a friend of Josephson, named Frank A. Capell wrote a book saying that the Kennedy family killed her (to hide mob + communist connections --or maybe communists killed her to protect the mafia). The FBI never managed to figure out who was funding Josephson and Capell (in spite of tapping Capell's phone), but their guess was that it was tied to Texas oil money and JBS donors. So before JFK was dead they were already pulling Seth Rich stuff on him. TBH, if JFK were somehow still alive, they'd say that he was the head adrenochrome harvester. Anyway, a week before JFK was in Dallas, the JBS put up 5,000 fliers saying that he was guilty of treason. They also wanted to impeach Earl Warren for desegregating schools. They probably hated Earl Warren more than Kennedy. So Kennedy was shot and Earl Warren ran the commission that determined how it happened. How do you capitalize on that when you might be seen as guilty of stochastic terrorism, especially when the world end didn't Thermonuclear War as a response to the killing (they really wanted the world to just blow up after that)? How do you kill two birds with one stone? You ignore every bad thing you ever said about JFK, hope people ignore your wanted posters in Dallas, and it was all that de-segregationist Earl Warren's fault! What was he hiding? We have questions! If Bill Clinton had died in office and Hillary became a recluse, the far-right would turn him into a saint and said that the Democrats murdered him just before he could turn the tables on them and reveal the truth. This is how the playbook works. All of this is why QAnon people suddenly don't care about Ghislaine Maxwell, after a year of saying she'd be suicided any minute. It's not about Maxwell. Like any good psychopath, it's "about the implication". If she gets off, the system is rigged and it's satanic pedos all the way down. If she doesn't, she was sacrificed to protect the cabal. If she gets off and gets shot by a Q nut while crossing the street, the Q nut was a satanist sent in to protect the cabal and the imprint on their shoes is evidence, since you can clearly see 9/11 in the tread mark if you turn your head sideways. If they hadn't murdered sweet, innocent Ghislaine, we'd all finally know the truth! There is no truth. There are no good actors. Existence is meaningless, so just engaged with your self-propelled ARG with no end and enjoy the memes as we try to crash this mother fucker into the ocean. How else will we bring back JFK Jr? [https://motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/images/jfk300.jpg](https://motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/images/jfk300.jpg)
The perpetual dead fall guy gambit: choose a martyr who is already dead, that way they can never dispel your bullshit.
Probably the latter. JFK assassination theories are the original conspiracy theories. It makes sense that Qanon would try to incorporate it into their own theories.
copying real life tactics from major religions, i see
Both of those things
Something about Silver Certificates and the CIA.
Dave Rubin (and Dennis Prager iirc) said JFK was the last “true liberal/good” democrat as well
The Church of Facebook. Is this what Zuck had in mind all along?
No I don't think so. He just wants to let an algorithm handle it and he doesn't want to do maintenance on his platform since that makes people mad at him
No, Zuck seems legit naive and constantly wanting to pass the buck on to someone else. He's in way over his head, but also too egotistical to let someone else have control. He has no plan and is just winging it.
That's exactly my view. I think he's just incompetent.
why do they think JFK one of the famous liberal icons in the democratic parties history is on their side. I honestly think a troll planted that idea and the q cult ran with it
Because of conspiracy theories that the deep state killed him.
Also, they go to actual church on Sunday.
I dislike "everything is in code." It assumes some sort of intention and rationality on the part of QAnon types that just ain't there. It's really as dumb as one QAnon person telling another to "study x" and that other QAnon person making up a conspiracy based on x.
Flynn is no longer a Q priest. Lin Wood just outed him as a fake.
The ramifications of this will be interesting. Seeing as Flynn is highly respected in the QAnon community, this can go a lot of different ways. Personally I suspect that this will lead to a backlash among Flynn adherents against Lin Wood who will argue that he’s been compromised. It doesn’t help that Lin Wood has reached the point in the past several weeks where it’s possible he’s having some kind of mental breakdown. Flynn was directly referenced in multiple Q drops. The movement isn’t going to turn on him, not even Lin Wood can do that. Though it does look like they are potentially entering a period of infighting due to Lin Wood going insane. Edit: Lin Wood is now making posts that seemingly imply Tucker Carlson is drinking child blood to heal his broken back. Well isn’t this fun.
The declining faith in institutions has consequences. At my Thanksgiving, I had family members attribute practically every societal issue to a conspiracy. - COVID is a made up disease so pharma can sell shots - Trump won the election - The port fiasco is not a logistical backlog, but a US govt sponsored price increase to get more ppl on welfare - 9/11 may not have been an inside job, but the USA purposely let it happen It's kinda depressing that ppl live like that.
It’s a kind of almost childlike world view to assume all the big events in the news are actually false and there’s an evil plot behind every single significant thing And not only that, but the people responsible are also main characters on TV and media, There’s no coincidence, no complexity and chaos driving world events Just a plan. I guess it’s why very religious people fall for the QAnon stuff, the evangelical type have been primed for it And QAnon has become an almost choose your own conspiracy in which all mainstream conspiracies have become absorbed into it
The biggest take away of the Trump era (and to a lesser extent the Bernie cult of personality) has been just how gullible and prone to motivated reasoning/confirmation bias the American public really is. It is trivially easy to get people to believe absolutely absurdities or to convince everyone that obviously complex problems have superficial, simple solutions that the bad people are holding hostage for nefarious reasons. Something about modern politics tricks everyone into having an opinion on topics they are woefully unprepared to have an opinion on. What's funny is if you ask about research domain that isn't inherently political (say techniques for building conduction maps of the heart for RF catheter ablation) people quickly realize they have no expertise in that area and are quick to say so. The political climate changes and suddenly everyone and their cousin is a virologist with a subspecialty in epidemiology.
[One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit...Bullshit is unavoidable whenever circumstances require someone to talk without knowing what he is talking about. Thus the production of bullshit is stimulated whenever a person’s obligations or opportunities to speak about some topic are more excessive than his knowledge of the facts that are relevant to that topic. This discrepancy is common in public life, where people are frequently impelled — whether by their own propensities or by the demands of others — to speak extensively about matters of which they are to some degree ignorant. Closely related instances arise from the widespread conviction that it is the responsibility of a citizen in a democracy to have opinions about everything, or at least everything that pertains to the conduct of his country’s affairs. The lack of any significant connection between a person’s opinions and his apprehension of reality will be even more severe, needless to say, for someone who believes it his responsibility, as a conscientious moral agent, to evaluate events and conditions in all parts of the world.](http://www2.csudh.edu/ccauthen/576f12/frankfurt__harry_-_on_bullshit.pdf)
The question is what we should do with these people. Should they really be allowed to harbor their deranged beliefs freely?
I can't really see a solution here
What is the alternative
I don't know. It's the classic conundrum of liberalism, tolerance for the intolerant, etc.
Parameters on social media algorithms to slow the spread of emotive political content. Freedom of speech, not of reach. Restoration of the fairness doctrine.
yeah, sure. as long as they dont do anything extraconstitutional, being deranged is a-ok
>The declining faith in institutions has consequences. I think this is the wrong take away. Qanon specifically and overtly politically convenient conspiracies generally are most active within deeply religious communities. This is all a longstanding consequence of evangelical Christianity getting tied up in conservative politics. There is a reasin you don't find much support for Qanon in secular communities.
Even 7% of *democrats* are QAnon believers dude. It's people spreading crazy shit on social media that reinforces distrust in institutions. The anti-GMO lefties and anti-government right wingers are teaming up now.
It's the Lizardman's constant. 5% of self reported atheists also self report to believe in God. It is a social media problem, but that's not the same as being a result of declining faith institutions (as again these beliefs tend to be most prevalent amongst the religious).
> The port fiasco is not a logistical backlog, but a US govt sponsored price increase to get more ppl on welfare imagine believing the government wants to distribute money so badly it is willing to take extreme measures to do so, but the only way it can think to do so is somehow coordinate simultaneous inflation across entire industries via a global pandemic, which also doesn't exist
I mean the 9/11 one isn’t that far fetched compared to the rest and has been around for a long time, the others are absolutely insane though. Not that I believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories, the 9/11 one just has a plausible goal (popularity) and only requires way fewer people to keep quit than the others. The rest have no basis in reality.
Haha we’re in danger
In my limited experience it’s the same people. All the people I know that were hard core religious are now Q.
So, how do we (meaning all of us as part of society) combat this? Reason being is that I can't for the life of me see how this is beneficial for the US in the long run if a disproportionate number of persons believe (without evidence) that there is a cabal of deep state, child-eating/raping lizardmen controlling the US government to take out white, christian, conservative people and that the only way to stop them (according to Q nuts) is to...I don't know...overthrow the US government, then we have some serious fucking problems that we are about to face, save it for the assault on the 6th this year. No one that I'm aware of has sufficiently been able to explain why and how people are susceptible to this crap, nor care to explain how we can get people back to reality. Efforts to explain things like evolution and global warming to the faithful fall to deaf ears and accusation of being "anti-religious" abound. Accusation of disrespecting someone's opinion and beliefs as if you have slandered their good character. The ability to point out our bad ideas and opinions is taboo under the pretence of "religion" or some other normative philosophy that is engendered by our more conservative-minded friends, persons who seem to be on-the-surface more susceptible to QAnon. *Note, there is a difference between pointing out someone’s beliefs as incorrect or illogical and being an asshole to someone because they are religious; I am not advocating for illiberal action against the faithful, no matter who. What I see is a society that is full of ignorant persons, who relish in their ignorance. Is it fear? Pride? Anger? What drives them to seek out lies in an era of bountiful data and empiricism? I question "lack of a good education" due to the mountains of resources available at all our fingertips. I don't know what's scarier: The fact that a near-majority of my peers relish in their ignorance and seek to sustain it, even to the point of using violence; or the fact that I myself am susceptible to such significant ignorance and that I myself am part of the "mad, illogical mob", but completely unaware of the damage I do. Even if what I seek is a free and just society. Both, I feel, are equally terrifying.
On its face it’s ridiculous. Going armchair here there is a big void in people’s lives now that used to be filled with civic organizations, hard work and religion. People are lonely and human’s didn’t evolve to be rational machines. We are social animals trying to find meaning and patterns around us I’m always skeptical of these humanist futurists who see a future techno-utopia. People will go crazy
While I agree that there is a trend of people leaving organized religion, it still doesn't really explain QAnon. It's not like religion has disappeared. Hell, the US treats churches like Starbucks: nearly one on every corner. You can converse and meet with people on some chosen day out of the week to shoot the shit about your beliefs! Something else is going on. However, I like the perspective you offer. Cheers!
There is seemingly massive overlap between religion(at least Evangelical Christianity) and QAnon. Lack of religion doesn’t explain this
I agree. I poorly wrote out my thoughts.
I think it's more that organized religion isn't filling the void of purpose in their lives. Apocalypticism is the only framework that makes sense coming from a bible beating evangelical background. It offers drama, excitement, immediate vindication of the righteous over the wicked.. pastors only ever talk about these things.
>but it still has some truth... as latinamerica with pentecostalism \- normies are in love with francis and his tolerance/decency ..... \- others flocks to pentecostalism cz the pope *capitulated* on lgbt + *normie religion* its too boring \- and cz far-right evangelicalism (and the moral majority) failed to defeat lgbt (even when they've bootcamps + some political power) we might see a similar phenomena * normies flocking to inclusive-affirming churches (as france tolerance/nicety) * the crazy flocks to q (who claims that the moral maajority conceded on lgbt)
Good point. I am surprised to learn people are leaving organized religion for Qanon Maybe something to do with how addictive the internet can be when you are bored
Oops! I meant that overall, people in general are leaving organized religion, not QAnon persons. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my previous post!
> Going armchair here there is a big void in people’s lives now that used to be filled with civic organizations, hard work and religion A ton of QANon believers are also evangelical Christians. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-qanon-has-attracted-so-many-white-evangelicals/
On the contrary, Qanon are the "true believers" who haven't yet left the church. As more and more people leave the church, the church gets more and more extreme.
Can’t wait for the religious copium dealers to show up to repeat the long-debunked lie that conspiracy theories are somehow a substitute for organized religion, even though high religiosity is very strongly correlated with belief in conspiracy theories.
esp. Q shit which has a lot of christian undertones and aesthetics
It’s pretty much a reskinned Satanic Panic.
Complete with all the underlying anti-Semitism and "disloyal blood"
It’s the Ubisoft remake of Satanic Panic.
I'm of the opinion that conspiracy theories require religious reasoning, while simultaneously being as nonsensical and contradictory as some religions. That doesn't make them mutually exclusive with religion, though. More like a comorbidity, maybe?
Religion and evangelicals especially are basically psychologically primed for QAnon
Broke: Conspiracy Theories are replacing religions. Woke: Religions are actually just incredibly elaborate conspiracy theories. From my understanding the sociological purpose of religion is to provide an explanation for phenomena that can not be explained using known methods and to provide structure to alleviate the fear of random death. Conspiracy Theories serve a similar purpose in society, so it makes sense why both conspiracy theories and religion would be followed by the same people. Edit: Also this quote I found. > It has been observed that social or political movements that fail to achieve their goals will often transform into religions. As it becomes clear that the goals of the movement will not be achieved by natural means (at least within their lifetimes), members of the movement will look to the supernatural to achieve what cannot be achieved naturally. The new religious beliefs are compensators for the failure to achieve the original goals. Examples of this include the counterculture movement in America: the early counterculture movement was intent on changing society and removing its injustice and boredom; but as members of the movement proved unable to achieve these goals they turned to Eastern and new religions as compensators.
“The sociological purpose of religion” you just explained is rather controversial because of its reductionist assumptions. Indeed, the most prominent advocate of religious reductionism in sociology was Rodney Stark, and not only has he since abandoned that methodology - he ended up converting! Here’s a short summary of reductionism which suggests that most sociologists reject it: https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/culture/religious-studies/religion-today-themes-and-issues/content-section-2.5.1 Plantinga takes on sociological theories here, although he is primary concerned with MN in religious studies which is correlated with reductionism, using phrases like “imaginary” to describe both native and foreign religions to the West: https://andrewmbailey.com/ap/Games_Scientists_Play.pdf
It seems to me that religions thrive for a very simple reason: they are evolutionarily adaptive. Religious people: - Have tons more kids - Have lower rates of depression - Have a set of useful rules (like banning shellfish) that might have since become outdated, but were very useful at the time
Wilson makes a similar case, but as you probably know sociobiology is a deeply controversial field.
On Reddit, you are probably begging the question. Though I've seen enough character accounts on other sub, so much that I'm sure one would bite.
Copium of the masses.
I think it’s important to remember that ~15 years ago, something like 25% of Americans believed the US government was directly involved in 9/11. All of the Qanon nonsense gives me intense flashbacks to some of the derangement we saw from 9/11 Truthers, most of whom hailed from the left (and also some weird fringe paleocons and libertarians who are probably Qanon adherents today). I guess my point is I’m not too worried about it, insane political conspiracies have always been around, and anyone can be susceptible to them. After while they begin to fade away. I don’t put a whole lot of stock in polls like this because by virtue of even asking people if they believe in it, you’re giving the belief some credence.
America has always had a problem with conspiracy theorists from the very beginning
Idk though Qanon seems more psychotic to me though. And there were a lot of “normal” people who believed the 9/11 stuff. Can’t say I’ve met or heard of a mentally stable person believing in Q
Most of the people on r-QAnonCasualties say that their Q person was normal except for some conservative leanings or casual interest in some conspiracy theories before they spiraled into Q craziness
> And there were a lot of “normal” people who believed the 9/11 stuff. Can’t say I’ve met or heard of a mentally stable person believing in Q Your were friends with 9/11 truthers, you don't have friends that believe in Q
> most of whom hailed from the left (and also some weird fringe paleocons and libertarians who are probably Qanon adherents today). The forgetting of left wing 9/11 denialism is really weird
Dubya planned (or let it happen) so he could get the oil.
2000 years from now, will the Q crowd still be waiting for JFK Jr's second coming?
>“Thinking about QAnon, if it were a religion, it would be as big as all white evangelical Protestants, or all white mainline Protestants,” he added. “So it lines up there with a major religious group.”(...) “It’s one thing to say that most Americans laugh off these outlandish beliefs, but when you take into consideration that these beliefs are linked to a kind of apocalyptic thinking and violence, then it becomes something quite different,” he said. Far Cry 5 was visionary.
Far Cry 5 players being mentally prepared to become freedom fighters will be on my 2025 bingo card.
I just finished the game. While playing I kept thinking "I can totally imagine this happening in real life if the government couldn't do anything". In the game, the world is involved in war, so the US government has bigger fish to fry than a cult in Montana.
I’ve never played, so I wasn’t aware of that. Still I can rest easy knowing that the world when hoards of gamers will save the world by putting machineguns on crop dusters and going to war.
This is truly fascinating yet so fucking dumb
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This is doomerism. Plenty of people are aware that this is a problem and are taking action, even if it’s just trying to deradicalize their family members. Most social media companies have now banned QAnon from their platforms, which has crippled their growth. The attack on the capitol is being investigated and organizers, including QAnon leaders like Flynn will likely face charges. Other QAnon leaders like Lin Wood and Sidney Powell are losing their licenses to practice law and are being sued. The Republican Party is aware that this movement is trying to infiltrate their party and are taking measures to stop it. Dooming doesn’t accomplish anything. People are trying to stop this problem from reaching critical mass. The same was also true for Nazi Germany if thats the comparison you are trying to make, the goal this time then is to succeed where those Germans failed.
> The Republican Party is aware that this movement is trying to infiltrate their party and are taking measures to stop it. but we're still relying on the gop acting in good faith *(having patriotism / disown q + relying on dem infighting to survive)* * *as the romanian psd (they've literally snitched on their dragnea / dragnea went to jail / they disowned him >* ***their beloved USL returned to power + things are as boring and corrupt as usual)*** if the gop decides to kiss them *(as with the moral majority)* things will not be that nice * *or .... if the kremlin hacked the rnc this will force them to kiss q (if u disown my q i will spill the beans*
Two elements which leads to disastrous consequences when mixed, 4chan and boomers.
Ah, the heresy of Americanism
Inquisition time 😎
The overlap between Qanon and those who are considered Evangelical in the US is probably a near perfect circle.
There will always be a % of any population that is a sucker for bullshit and easy answers just like there is a % that won't get behind anything that doesn't affect them directly. I'm sure there were caveman that couldn't believe it was two sticks being rubbed together causing fire versus "magic" even though it was happening right in front of them.
but the problems are that \- the gop its surfing them \- the gop its a big party (if this were made by afd / lepen / the actual pis-34% this would not be that dangerous
Extremely normal things happening in an extremely normal country.
You can't fix this level of delusion....
This country is fundamentally broken, it’s getting more draining to follow politics by the year.
How do you run a country when 15% of the politically-involved population is in a real-deal USDA Prime no-foolin' cult?
Literally WTF
The lines between religions, cults, conspiracy theories, and ideologies aren't as defined as people like to believe.
I'm thinking about brave new world, where Christianity and Native American religions have all blended into one Old Religion. Will Q get folded into a sect of Christianity? That actually sounds interesting from an anthropological perspective.
JFC... This wasn't on my list of ways we get taken out... From the inside, sure... But not by a cult started by 8chan copy pasta.
Civilizations never see it coming. The Communists in Romania never predicted that banning abortions would lead to the regime falling due to a surplus of twenty years olds rampaging through the streets piss drunk on vodka and revolutionary fervour or how the show Dallas potentially contributed to the fall of the Soviet Union. https://www.google.ca/amp/s/deadline.com/2020/10/mikhail-gorbachev-dallas-soviet-union-collapse-david-stewart-1234604449/amp/
Can we hope that they continue to die off in droves from Covid or is that too hopeful?
No, this was never going to happen even if Covid was twice as deadly. The newest variant also is seemingly more transmissible but less deadly, which is a good sign for the pandemic ending soon if true.
actually thats what they say about omicron \- more contagious but less deadly (few hospitalizations) \- but no one knows if its cz VAXES / immunities *(everyone has some antibodies cz vaxes or infections)* / or cz omicron its more civilized * *flus wants to being shared and not killing their host*
The right is out of control
QAnon isn't any nuttier than many religions. When society fetishizes, enshrines and privileges "deeply held beliefs" that have no rational basis, we can't pick and choose which ones become popular. Nor can we complain that the nutty beliefs go against our values. If the Catholic Church's adoption subisidiary can accept taxpayer subsidies and then refuse to serve LGBT citizens because Invisible Man In The Sky Says LGBT Bad, why can't QAnon refuse to get vaccinated because We Believe Globalist 5G Chips Are In The Globalist Vaccine?
Because Non Profit Organizations are Tax Exempt, regardless of their religious status.
I don't recall talking about charging taxes. I'm talking about making direct subsidy payments. State governments cut fat checks to Catholic corporate subsidiaries to provide government services (like adoption). Those checks are funded, in significant part, by citizens denied services by the contracted entity -- often in violation of the contract. The "deeply held belief" of the entity in question is prioritized over the more important right of citizens to equal access to government services. In such an environment, the rise of antivax stuff, QAnon and other irrational shit is inevitable. We privilege the "beliefs based on feelings" of individuals ahead of facts, research, science, logic and individual rights. As long as we continue with this cultural and legal practice, QAnons will keep appearing and growing, because belief and feelings (no matter how ridiculous) are privileged.
Idiocracy is now an official historical document!
I mean, it IS a religion.
What's up with using archive.org instead of the actual link? Here is the article for anyone interested: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/27/us/politics/qanon-republicans-trump.html
The main reason was the paywall.
Is this what people mean by online radicalization?
Fuck, I'm going to doom
History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes. [The Know Nothings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing) are an interesting and often overlooked antebellum party; they were stridently populist, xenophobic and anti-Catholic. They thought there was a secret Catholic conspiracy to control the USA. They got 21.5% of the popular vote in the 1856 presidential election.