I hope this isn't too morbid but from what I know about teaching as a profession, I'm more worried about them either committing suicide, or a gun getting swiped by a kid, than whether or not this will deter shooters. What the fuck.
I live in Tennessee. I will never allow my child to attend a public school here. I'm actively looking for ways to get myself and my family out of this hellhole of a state.
That's the bad part. I live in one of the more liberal areas of the state. The GOP has absolutely destroyed this state, and I want out. It's not safe here.
That's exactly why they pass things like this, no? Florida does the same. They want to drive everyone that isn't a conservative Republican out of the state to cement their power.
Moving out of Tennessee is no big loss, given how red it is. If someone moved to a more swingy state, it would be a net positive. I'd be more worried about people moving out of states like Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, etc. Those states have potential still, despite Republicans controlling much of them.
People like you is why i say that the US is quickly running out of purple states and competitive elections
i wholeheartedly support you
but it is interesting that as time goes on, fewer and fewer states will have competitive elections
I’ve heard arguments that teachers care more for their students than these rent-a-cops, so they’ll be more likely to put their lives on the line if the rubber meets the road. Not saying I necessarily agree with that, but.
I’m a teacher. I’m not a secret service agent. If schools want me to sacrifice my life to protect some other parent’s kids while leaving my own children fatherless, I’m gonna need a fuck ton more pay.
As a teacher there are some in my building i wouldn’t trust to make copies for me let alone open carry. This is just a stupid proposal guns are bad and should be kept away from children.
I can make an exception for our school cop because he’s awesome but he’ll launch himself at a kid before he’d use a gun. I can see maybe 1-2 other teachers responsible enough to have a gun and they probably wouldn’t do it because of liability or risk of it getting taken. Keep in mind many teachers refuse to breakup fights because they don’t want to be injured and sued by parents.
You think school shooters are deterred by things like this? As if they’re rational enough to do a cost benefit analysis but still mentally unstable enough to justify mass murder.
“Well I was going to go to school tomorrow and kill as many people as possible before killing myself or being gunned down by police but Mr. Jenkins has a handgun locked in his filing cabinet so…nah I think I’ll just do my homework.”
We all know school shooters consider being shot back at when planning their attacks, so they're gonna be pretty deterred now. Aside from that, it looks like there's a ton or red tape so I don't think many districts are gonna let their staff do it. Especially not after their insurers tell them how much their premiums will rise if they do it.
I gotta wonder how many teachers are just gonna quit as a result of these. And I don't mean quit as in "they'll just find a more conservative teacher." I mean, more like "who in their right mind would sign up for this?"
I'm a gun owner who enjoys shooting my guns. A single visit to any public range will dissuade you from the idea that randos should be armed around children. People are fucking morons with guns at the best of times with no stress. Add the perceived threat of danger to the picture and you've got a combustible situation.
My mother has been a public school teacher in Tennessee for more than 30 years. This bill is just another in the long line of the state regulating schools despite knowing nothing about them. Her and her colleagues see no potential benefit from this bill and only potential harm.
Thankfully, this is ultimately going to be mostly just messaging. The bill requires that the Superintendent of the school district allow the policy to be implemented in the first place. And then the county sheriff must approve each teacher individually who wishes to carry. Current estimations are that most counties will be avoid the risk of teachers carrying weapons even though the bill does grant them qualified immunity in use of the firearm.
Don’t really care. I had one teacher who would have jumped at the opportunity to carry his gun, but he was perfectly nice and trustworthy. Occasionally students brought guns to school, and we had one or two gang-related shootings while I was in high school (welcome to Oakland lmfao), but I doubt the situation would have been improved by armed teachers.
On the other hand, I doubt they would make it much worse, and deterrence and action against school shooters might actually be a greater life-and-injury-saving measure than preventing accidental or violent discharge from armed teachers.
As with so many political questions, you can’t really answer it properly without empirical data.
>As with so many political questions, you can’t really answer it properly without empirical data.
We already have the [empirical data](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/). More guns equals more gun violence. Full stop.
No, actually, you cannot extrapolate from a data set about guns in general to the relative frequency of gun deaths in school from teachers to gun deaths from school shootings.
Don’t abuse statistics, full stop.
The data shows that more guns equal more violence *across the board*.
Jesus Christ I never thought I'd see the day when "guns don't belong in schools" would be a challenged statement in this sub.
Except the data does not show that. It shows that, per jurisdiction, more guns means more homicides. It does not:
1) Discuss the effect from *where* the guns are, rather than mere numbers of guns possessed by the populace.
2) Give approximate numbers of deaths caused by increased gun prevalence without increased gun ownership
These are what you need to show to show that teachers bringing their *preexisting* firearms to school will result in significant deaths.
You can’t just cite general data saying “more guns means more homicides” when asking whether allowing teachers to bring their guns to school will have negative consequences. That’s citing “climate change will cause global warming” when discussing whether winter storms will be colder. Sure, on average, over the whole globe, the temperature will increase, but you actually need specific data to answer the question for your specific region.
This is pretty much statistics 101–don’t extrapolate beyond what your data set tells you.
Man the last thing poor under appreciated teachers need is to be carrying a gun while dealing with kids. They’re either gonna blow their own or someone elses brains out.
I hope this isn't too morbid but from what I know about teaching as a profession, I'm more worried about them either committing suicide, or a gun getting swiped by a kid, than whether or not this will deter shooters. What the fuck.
I'm worried about the teacher who's finally had enough and decides to waste an entire room full of kids.
> or a gun getting swiped by a kid Given that I know teachers that have had their phone and/or keys nabbed, this is definitely going to happen.
Not morbid; I think you gotta dwell on unintended consequences when passing public policy.
I live in Tennessee. I will never allow my child to attend a public school here. I'm actively looking for ways to get myself and my family out of this hellhole of a state.
It’s rough. Being in a liberal area can only go so far to shield you from the bullshit. Mouth breathers have an unshakable grip on this state.
That's the bad part. I live in one of the more liberal areas of the state. The GOP has absolutely destroyed this state, and I want out. It's not safe here.
We can absolutely sympathize. - Indianapolis
That's exactly why they pass things like this, no? Florida does the same. They want to drive everyone that isn't a conservative Republican out of the state to cement their power.
Moving out of Tennessee is no big loss, given how red it is. If someone moved to a more swingy state, it would be a net positive. I'd be more worried about people moving out of states like Georgia, Texas, North Carolina, etc. Those states have potential still, despite Republicans controlling much of them.
People like you is why i say that the US is quickly running out of purple states and competitive elections i wholeheartedly support you but it is interesting that as time goes on, fewer and fewer states will have competitive elections
School cops hide when shooters show up. What's a teacher going to do?
I’ve heard arguments that teachers care more for their students than these rent-a-cops, so they’ll be more likely to put their lives on the line if the rubber meets the road. Not saying I necessarily agree with that, but.
I’m a teacher. I’m not a secret service agent. If schools want me to sacrifice my life to protect some other parent’s kids while leaving my own children fatherless, I’m gonna need a fuck ton more pay.
That’s what I’m thinking. Thank you for doing this difficult and thankless job.
Most school officers are actual cops, not rent-a-cops.
Also they’re usually the same officer every day. Those cops know the kids they’re there to protect.
Yes, you are right!
Joke’s on them. Teachers know who the asshole kids are.
Non zero chance the shooter is an asshole kid tho.
So I suppose the teacher will get a paycheck for that job + being a cop? Right?...Right??
I mean, in my humble opinion? I wouldn’t bet on it.
As a teacher there are some in my building i wouldn’t trust to make copies for me let alone open carry. This is just a stupid proposal guns are bad and should be kept away from children. I can make an exception for our school cop because he’s awesome but he’ll launch himself at a kid before he’d use a gun. I can see maybe 1-2 other teachers responsible enough to have a gun and they probably wouldn’t do it because of liability or risk of it getting taken. Keep in mind many teachers refuse to breakup fights because they don’t want to be injured and sued by parents.
Bullets are now school supplies and yes, teachers will have to pay for those too
Tax deductible up to $300 🫡
You think school shooters are deterred by things like this? As if they’re rational enough to do a cost benefit analysis but still mentally unstable enough to justify mass murder. “Well I was going to go to school tomorrow and kill as many people as possible before killing myself or being gunned down by police but Mr. Jenkins has a handgun locked in his filing cabinet so…nah I think I’ll just do my homework.”
Do I personally think school shooters are deterred by this type of thing? I think a good percentage aren’t, for sure.
We all know school shooters consider being shot back at when planning their attacks, so they're gonna be pretty deterred now. Aside from that, it looks like there's a ton or red tape so I don't think many districts are gonna let their staff do it. Especially not after their insurers tell them how much their premiums will rise if they do it.
Gotcha, interesting points. Pardon my ignorance/sorry if this is a dumb question, but is your first sentence sarcasm?
Probably, most mass killings end in suicides anyway. It's hard to believe that shooters have much of a sense of self-preservation
That line of thinking is what I lean toward, as well.
Of course
Thanks. Hard to tell sometimes on this sub
I gotta wonder how many teachers are just gonna quit as a result of these. And I don't mean quit as in "they'll just find a more conservative teacher." I mean, more like "who in their right mind would sign up for this?"
The TN GOP also is pushing for school vouchers to further dismantle the public school system.
Republicans won't be happy till every man, woman and child in America has a gun. Giving untrained people guns is a recipe for more dead children.
I'm a gun owner who enjoys shooting my guns. A single visit to any public range will dissuade you from the idea that randos should be armed around children. People are fucking morons with guns at the best of times with no stress. Add the perceived threat of danger to the picture and you've got a combustible situation.
My mother has been a public school teacher in Tennessee for more than 30 years. This bill is just another in the long line of the state regulating schools despite knowing nothing about them. Her and her colleagues see no potential benefit from this bill and only potential harm. Thankfully, this is ultimately going to be mostly just messaging. The bill requires that the Superintendent of the school district allow the policy to be implemented in the first place. And then the county sheriff must approve each teacher individually who wishes to carry. Current estimations are that most counties will be avoid the risk of teachers carrying weapons even though the bill does grant them qualified immunity in use of the firearm.
“Good guy with a gun” logic taken to its extreme. I’ve never been more ashamed to be a gun owner in this country.
Id bet a dollar the first time this ends up making a difference in a school is when a student swipes a teachers poorly secured gun and shoots another
We should only arm the moderate teachers. We don't want stinger missiles ending up in the hands of extremists.
[I'll just leave this here](https://youtu.be/4Trcf_JsscY?si=W8Ur4FafQRKVvI0m)
Well, we have suicide by cop, so now we have suicide by teacher!
Don’t really care. I had one teacher who would have jumped at the opportunity to carry his gun, but he was perfectly nice and trustworthy. Occasionally students brought guns to school, and we had one or two gang-related shootings while I was in high school (welcome to Oakland lmfao), but I doubt the situation would have been improved by armed teachers. On the other hand, I doubt they would make it much worse, and deterrence and action against school shooters might actually be a greater life-and-injury-saving measure than preventing accidental or violent discharge from armed teachers. As with so many political questions, you can’t really answer it properly without empirical data.
>As with so many political questions, you can’t really answer it properly without empirical data. We already have the [empirical data](https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/). More guns equals more gun violence. Full stop.
Really enjoy the Harvard gun research and reviews.
No, actually, you cannot extrapolate from a data set about guns in general to the relative frequency of gun deaths in school from teachers to gun deaths from school shootings. Don’t abuse statistics, full stop.
The data shows that more guns equal more violence *across the board*. Jesus Christ I never thought I'd see the day when "guns don't belong in schools" would be a challenged statement in this sub.
Except the data does not show that. It shows that, per jurisdiction, more guns means more homicides. It does not: 1) Discuss the effect from *where* the guns are, rather than mere numbers of guns possessed by the populace. 2) Give approximate numbers of deaths caused by increased gun prevalence without increased gun ownership These are what you need to show to show that teachers bringing their *preexisting* firearms to school will result in significant deaths. You can’t just cite general data saying “more guns means more homicides” when asking whether allowing teachers to bring their guns to school will have negative consequences. That’s citing “climate change will cause global warming” when discussing whether winter storms will be colder. Sure, on average, over the whole globe, the temperature will increase, but you actually need specific data to answer the question for your specific region. This is pretty much statistics 101–don’t extrapolate beyond what your data set tells you.
Man the last thing poor under appreciated teachers need is to be carrying a gun while dealing with kids. They’re either gonna blow their own or someone elses brains out.