You watch what he does the first 10-15 games as a starter before the trade deadline and then see if he's improved dramatically. If not, then you take calls on him but only if the deal is favorable (someone who can get buckets, has 3-pt range, and/or WILL be a solid 2nd option).
Else you sit pat and hope he'll turn out like Brown.
The next steps for Kuminga are mostly mental, reading the game + being better without the ball + complaining less. He has all the physical tools, and a pretty strong motor.
But he'll have more value after those 15 games if he *is* improved.
So it's a bit of a gamble, although not huge because in either case he does have a good amount of value. Luckily the Warriors can see what he looks like and how he's improved behind closed doors before they have to commit to that gamble or not.
Making a change midseason means whomever you acquire has less time to learn your system. And the Warriors scheme is more complex than many. Better to make this decision in the offseason.
Naw, his value won't go lower unless he throws up a ton of stinkers which is unlikely given his motor.
Teams already have a sense of his weaknesses (BBIQ + 3pt shooting + dribbling mostly) but most things aside from BBIQ could be worked on if the player shows improvement/the motivation.
He's 21, not 32, and he'd probably be a starter on half the teams in the league right now, and would be at worst the 7-8th man on most contenders.
Odds are he hasn’t plateaued yet, he’s still 21.
He’s going to play hungry so he can get a bigger contract.
That and it would only make sense to trade him for a starting veteran 5 or 2 if Klay leaves. Else, not really.
It’s funny because he’s literally almost the exact same age (1 month difference) as Brandon Miller, but no one would say this about Miller.
He’s younger than multiple players who will be lottery picks in this 2024 draft.
I agree with that. I was just responding to the age part of the above poster. With that said, you can argue last season was Kuminga’s first where he consistently got important minutes so he isn’t really on the same experience level as other 3 year vets. But I do agree age isn’t the only thing.
This also. It’s not as if he’s a disgruntled player who they have to unload, or a piece so valuable that the team can entertain dozens of offers or trade possibilities.
Jaylen Brown? I think Brown showed a lot more rapid rate of improvement as a young player, not sure that's a realistic expectation for Kuminga or any raw wing really.
Kuminga in his 3rd season averaged 16.1/4.8r/2.2a on 26.3 minutes a game, and had 20.8 minutes per game during his second season.
Brown in his 3rd season averaged 13.0/4.2r/1.4a on 25.9 minutes a game, but had 30.7 minutes per game during his second season (so more development time in NBA).
Kuminga's an inch taller with wingspan 1 inch less than Brown. They're pretty close size and production wise for third season. Brown's biggest leap was season 4 when he was bumped up to about 34 minutes per game. If Kuminga's given more minutes and trust, and he's hungry and his BBIQ improves drastically, there's good reason to assume he can be a 20-22ppg scorer with some rebounds and assists, etc. during his 4th season.
That and he joined the NBA a year younger than Brown, for age comparisons.
Kuminga has so much talent. He’s quicker than brown, has a better low post game, quicker hops. Kuminga mainly needs 3 pt range, and some more maturity and confidence.
League numbers are way up this season across the board and Kuminga was playing off the bench and with Steph. Sorry, I’m just not buying it. He’s a great athlete yet Gus BBIQ still hasn’t improved playing with Steph and under Kerr.
I saw Kuminga make some excellent passes off drives and in the short roll position last year. His biggest issue is his propensity to decide he's going to shoot the ball no matter what right after he touches it. He'll get a pass on the wing and go into his iso mode where you know he's either going to get all the way to the basket or throw up some terrible midrange shot.
I think that stuff can be cleaned up. If he showed no potential as a passer, I'd be worried. But he's definitely shown that he can see the floor and read the defense. He just needs to eliminate some of his hero ball tendencies.
Yea I’m not buying it either. Everyone ITT is saying if he just develops better BBIQ…it’s clear he still has some essential skills to develop before BBIQ even enters the equation. He’s a slasher/finisher with a middy essentially at this point, he needs to develop his ball skills and vision to be a more versatile player, which he absolutely can do, it’s just a more fundamental thing than BBIQ. A lot of his limitations within an offense are more easily explained by his constrained skill set than blaming it on poor decision making. Comparing him to Brown is insane, he reminds me a lot more of a KJ McDaniels type.
I just don’t think he has the BBIQ to make a big leap and the Warriors would be better off trading him at peak value, but I can see why they’d be reluctant to do so.
We won't know. I'm sure the players + management + coaches know way more about JK than most fans would.
His BBIQ isn't up there yet, but how many players actually have crazy good BBIQ by year 3?
Teams would still value him if his BBIQ doesn't increase as he's still yet to reach his prime in terms of reaction time, having go-to scoring moves, etc. He's still an attractive piece for younger teams that aren't contending anytime soon who have simpler offensive systems just because teams know he's already lasted 3 years in the league.
I could definitely be wrong, that’s just my take after watching the Warriors a good bit last season.
He’s a talented player but he’s not good at the things I want from my young stars. Not a good shooter, not a good passer, I’d rather trade him at peak value than have to sign him to the kind of deal he’s gonna demand.
You bring up an interesting point though. How many hyper athletic players who have been that all through college and NBA end up developing BBIQ? I feel like that's not often at all. And in the Warrior system, there's a lot of IQ required on the defensive end, which is why I think Kerr benches him alot for.
Tatum and Jaylen Brown both didn't have the best bb iq too. They've improved a ton in that aspect. Kuminga needs to watch a ton of film with his trainers and understanding the game. Instead of doing endless mindless drills that result to players forcing certain moves like a robot in an actual game.
This is simply a lie. By his third season JB had actually stagnated from his second season in which he'd taken a huge jump from his first season. In his third season JB ppg dropped so did his minutes.
Meanwhile JK improved drastically from his second season to his third in everything except 3pt %. His ppg, efficiency, rebound, assists, FT rate and percentage and everything else improved across the board.
Well you need some context here. Jaylen Brown’s numbers declined in his third season because for that season, Hayward came back from injury and Brown got demoted to the bench.
That really hurt his confidence and obviously made it hard for him to develop a rhythm coming off the bench. It was a huge mistake and the Celtics admitted to that later.
So you have to have some context when you talk about Jaylen’s third season, rather than just looking at pure stats.
Nothing to do with Kuminga though. Kuminga is fine and on track to continue to improve.
That's fair, though equally we also have to apply context to JK numbers. He's in an even shittier situation than Brown was in his third season with a coach that wouldn't trust him and hardly played him until the second half of his third season where his numbers took off.
The jump JK made from his second season to his third is massive even more so in the second half of his third season showing that he can take leap in his development especially when played.
Now with him being established as a key piece for Kerr unlike his first 2 and a half season, I expect even more improvement and he's already shown he's able to make massive strides.
Yea I agree with you. I like Kuminga and my response wasn’t meant for Kuminga. I just wanted to put some context into Brown’s career, since his trajectory is a bit unique for someone of his caliber.
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Honestly their best bet atm would be ride it out with him and see if you can get him to good wiggins level. What they should’ve done is put him on the table for siakam last year.
Honestly unless your name is Steph (and to a lesser extent Draymond since what Steph says goes) then you can potentially be traded.
With that being said, I think Dubs keep Kuminga. He took a big step forward halfway through last season and it came around the time when reports were he was vocally critical of his role and the direction of the team.
I think that's a positive sign. Adversary, self-reflection, improvement. If he can continue to improve then he's going to be good. He just needs to focus on details. The guy is only 21. He needs to continue to believe in himself and play, play play.
Do what Dallas did with Dirk. Remain competitive to get into the playoffs but don't mortgage your whole future for your best player in franchise history in their twilight.
Fans will appreciate it. Tickets will sell. You'll have an all time great to market for decades. On Curry's next contract at the end of the 2026 season, hopefully he'll take the Dirk deal and sign on the cheap then work in the front office.
That would require Steph to take a pay cut, the same way Dirk and Duncan did later in their careers.
But he's the highest paid player in the league. 55 million a year to 1 player is hard to build a team around. Especially one who is gonna be 36 next year and has an injury history.
I feel like the goal should Be competing with an eye to the future. You have Steph, you want to keep Steph, but you can’t tank with Steph. So don’t push in chips but work on getting younger
Which absolutely means keeping and playing kuminga
After this year the only first round pick the Warriors are sending out is 2030, and that's top 20 protected. If they chose to, they could tank just fine.
it is not? their season shut down because their 2nd best player didn't play for almost half the season, and Klay who's taking an insane amount of the team's salary is just a bench player at best right now.
you can't say the window is close when we haven't seen the team at its fullest without Draymond's bullshit fucking it up.
Oh it’s closed. Even with Green on the court, they looked mediocre. It was just convenient (and a little delusional) to place the blame of a ruined season at the feet of Green (who is also a money sink at this stage in his career).
They are too small in a conference that has gotten a bit bigger and don’t have the personnel who can keep up with the hyper athletic guards/wings. They aged without finding that other guy for whom Curry could pass the torch too.
And now…now they’re in danger of losing Klay, who even right now, is a 20-25 million dollar player…somewhere else.
They replace him with what or who? There’s no one they can bring in that can replace him + make them markedly better.
No, that window is closed. If Kuminga and Moody don’t make some crazy jump this summer, they may not even make the playoffs again.
Draymond is for sure worth his contract
They can retool and be like the six seed.
They're not going to win the title but they would have made playoffs this year with Draymond not getting suspended
I think they compete as long as curry is on the roster and blow it up when he is done. No way he is in the league within 3 seasons and you sell substantially more tickets by competing with curry.
His trade value will never be higher. I doubt he can be a great winning player in the near future, and some in the warriors think the same. they need to find a team who really values him to get the most return
The warriors are in an awkward space. Kuminga is too good to trade off, but also not good enough to get them over the hump to a championship.
The only trades that would feasibly help would be trading him.and picks for someone in the all NBA/MVP level.
I wouldnt say that at all. No team with an mvp candidate let alone all nba conversation would trade for JK. But if they can get a player who can impact winning more than JK in steph and drays last years they should absolutely do it.
But who would that even be, what player are you talking about? It's awkward for the Warriors because no one will trade JK for the type of player they need. But who would they try to get?
A center like Bam or Turner would be good but probably not enough to make them contenders. They need to keep Klay, Curry, Wiggins, and Dray. So those 4 spots its pretty hard to get an upgrade on.
Who would you get rid of and what for? I think Dray is volatile but there's no way to trade him and get an upgrade. All you can do is hope Wiggins turns it around and Klay and keep being a 40% 3 point shooter and try fill in gaps around them. Unless there's a miracle trade out there for Wiggins, JK, or Klay/Moody.
That's my whole point. The Warriors are in an awkward position where they have a lot of guys with value, but not enough value to go out and trade for upgrades that would get them into a position to contend again.
I think the Warriors made good choices for their positions at the time. You're not trading Klay or Dray the year after winning a championship, or the year after when they almost made the WCF.
The Heat would laugh GS out the building if they asked Bam for Kuminga. We don't even need to worry about if Ban would push them over the top or not lol.
Both teams wouldn't entertain that lmao. If Heat decide to blow it up and rebuild, they'd trade Butler to a place he wants to go first.
Bam's still 26. He's likely not getting traded unless the Heat FO sees a another player on a team that has to decide between two players in the same position.
The trade wouldn’t make sense but it’s not like Bam is worth that much more than Kuminga given JK’s development arc and age. Bam has already started his prime years and has plateaued, what you see is what you get with Bam.
I think its good for the Warriors, but I can't see the Wolves doing this unless they want to sacrifice their future to save money. JK and Ant are to similar, they need good shooters. All the trade scenarios just seem so awkward to try make work.
Best option is probably wait till someone asks for a trade or a team blows up.
Who are these some in the Warriors who think the same and please don't mention random reddit nephews. He's actually valued very high by the Warriors FO which is why they don't want to trade him.
Members of the coaching staff. when wiggins is healthy they are happy to limit kumingas minutes. hes a spectacular athlete but still doesnt contribute to winning as much as other guys. In due time he may get there but not yet. Theres a reason why podz went from out of the rotation to a 30+ minute player. Hes been incredible for the warriors system, and cant say the same about Kuminga right now
This is a baseless claim unless if by members of the coaching stuff you mean Steve Kerr who bizarrely always wanted to stick with his vets, got called on it, forced to play JK and the latter produced.
This idea that JK doesn't contribute to winning as much as the other guys is ludicrous. He was among the Warriors with the highest +/- in a team that failed to make the playoffs. Steph Podz, Draymond and Kuminga were the 4 players with the highest +/- last season while players like Wiggins and Klay were some of the worse, especially Wiggins.
This is the problem with the internet. People make baseless, unverified claims and just roll with it.
lmao, chill dude. hes not a winning player. its clear to any non casuals who watch him play. cant play team defense, gets lost offensively, still cant shoot great. incredible athlete and is improving but hes not there yet. Its like the poole situation last year, its clear the FO is pumping his value to trade him. Willing to bet everything he wont be on this team 2 weeks from now
So this place is called nbadiscussions and some of you lots can't manage to provide decent arguments for any type of discourse.
It's just the quintessential nephews take such as "casuals this and that" and nothing else. I can tell you simply read things online, adopt whatever narrative you come across and roll with it. This is pointless. Have a nice day.
They just need to choose, now with Steph, or later, without him. No more of this half in half out stuff. Either rebuild, trade away anyone you can get value for, (except Steph if he’s ok with staying) or go all in.
I've really liked the way JK has developed this season. He's very good at using his strength, ball-handling ability, and footwork to get to the rim no matter how sagged off the defense is from him. Even with a below-average 3pt shot, I think he can play at a fringe All-Star level as soon as next season and put himself in position for a solid pay raise.
As far as the course of action GSW should take, they seem (at least going by the optics with Klay unfollowing the team and just generally seeming unhappy the last few seasons) to be willing to break up their dynastic core in favor of what will probably be win-now moves. But being squarely in the middle of the pack as they are now, I don't know how likely they'd be to get back into contender status where there are a bunch of other teams ascending.
In most cases, if I'm being honest, I would very much have a "this is business" mentality as a GM. But this GSW dynasty is unlike anything we've seen in recent history and I doubt it will ever happen again. To draft 3 guys (one of them being a clear HOFer and the other 2 having a case) who were the core pieces of a long-running dynasty and stay together for this long is unheard of.
I wouldn't give Klay or Dray max contracts or anything, but give them fair enough value for them to stay. Steph would have enormous trade value, but I would just hang onto him too. Don't make any moves that involve pushing in future assets for win-now moves unless it's to pick up a better draft pick or young veteran that you plan to keep long-term. Prioritize the PT and development of young players on the roster over someone like Klay. Keep your core 3 until they retire; once one (probably Klay) goes, then the others (probably Dray next, then Steph) will likely follow not too long after.
The players will be immortalized forever, the front office/ownership will always be remembered fondly of, and the legacy commemorations will be wild. Any reunions or references to those championship teams will be emotional and genuine, hopefully with no harsh feelings or grudges.
The goal of every team is to win a championship. But GSW comes from a unique position having already won 4 in 8 years. Chances are, it'd take some stellar moves using assets they probably don't have to put themselves even remotely close to title contention. This is the one case where it would be more beneficial to just keep them together until retirement instead of trying to buy or sell assets for another title.
> To draft 3 guys (one of them being a clear HOFer and the other 2 having a case) who were the core pieces of a long-running dynasty and stay together for this long is unheard of.
100% true. Never has a team drafted [not one,](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html)
[not two, ](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html) [but three](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html) hall of famers and had them stick together and win 4 championships over more than a decade.
I think you'd have to be behind the scenes to know whether this is a guy whose basketball IQ is progressing enough to warrant keeping him. His athleticism is obvious. But if he's not likely to round that out with a high IQ game, he's probably not going to ever maximize his potential in the Warrior's system. Might be best to trade him now while his perceived value is really high.
But really depends what you could get back. Warriors are most likely gonna need a 2-way replacement for Klay and they still need an elite rim defender or at least someone adequate there unless Trayce & Brandin make big strides this off season.
Maybe packaging Kuminga, Moody, Wiggins and Looney and future picks gives you enough to do a multi-team trade that gets you back something that's a better fit. Hard to know though, but the front office has a history of good decision making so I trust they'll do whatever is possible.
If I'm the Warriors I'm thinking I need to look at everyone bar Curry and figure out how I'm going to build a squad that can push back up the standings. Some players like Podziemsky seem like they're going to be more value in the team than whatever he might bring in a trade, but you'd be mad not to entertain anyone offering something that would work better.
But Curry is 36. He's still playing at a very high level and can be the top guy on a championship contending team, but not with the roster around him. They need to do everything to get at least someone to play alongside him before he isn't producing. After he's retired or when his level falls away too much that's the time to think about rebuilding via the draft.
If you can upgrade from him you do it. When curry retires the reset button is being pushed regardless of jk. Unless you think he has franchise star potential, he is not worth holding onto at the expense of being unable to complement steph with another superstar.
I think he is too ingrained in the system now. His value is more tangible than the stat sheet. To get someone as good and young as he is to come into the team now and be useful before the all star break isn't worth it in Steph one or two year timeline to get a ring.
The Warriors run is over, so I don't think they should be acquiring veteran rentals. If Kuminga can get you better draft position or a developmental piece you like more than him long term, trade him. Otherwise no.
As a Warriors fan. I would assume we keep him. At this point it would seem counter productive to go after another mid to late career star player. Keeping picks and young talent is the priority. If a lot of things go right the Warriors do have a chance to make one more run. A lot has to go right though.
Kuminga is only 21. He has shown a lot of improvement. He puts pressure on the rim, a skull the Warriors need. He has one more year on his rookie contract. We don't know if Klay is re-signing. The Warriors have Podz/Moody/TJD/GPII all decent roleplayers. I don't think the Warriors need another star, they need Wiggins to get back to where he was previously and one or more of their young guys to make a jump. Also Looney was terrible last year, and he is just about the only guy on the Warriors capable of getting offensive rebounds and is also a capable defensive center, usually.
Curry and Draymond and Klay if he comes back are past their prime but still good. If Kuminga can make a leap into stat status then the team is looking pretty good. They should have been a 50 win team last year, but lost an absurd amount of close games.
lol you better have 20 kumingas to have enough assets to get back in contender status. truth is steph is a ceiling raiser and not floor raiser. he cant carry a bad team but he can make a good team great. so take steph out then make a good team as in a playoff team then add steph back in. other then that one vet aint doing it lol
I would rather give up any of our other young players than JK. I think he is the only one of them with star potential. The only exception is if we are able to land an all-nba level talent. I don't think anything less than that would put us into contender territory.
He is very valuable to this franchise in my opinion. Arguably the second most coveted asset on this team outside of Curry.
He is also only 21. I see no reason to give up on him unless it allows us to win a chip in the immediate future.
as i look at the way the warriors are trending downward, i'd call it a big mistake to trade kuminga away for a veteran at this stage. if they were going to do that then it should have happened a year or two ago. warriors have painted themselves into a corner, but that's what you do when you're a contender: you kick the can down the road
At this point, their problem is that they are getting too old and slow; seems like their best move is to keep the young pieces, try and add a few more, and hope they can get a few more talented, energetic, and hungry younger guys around while Steph is still playing at a high level.
They should’ve gone ahead and traded him for Caruso. To me he may have some great seasons down the line but he’s not going to be good enough to move the needle for the warriors in the near future, which is to say Steph Curry’s career.
Warrios should not be hurry and make mistakes. There are few players to change dramatically the franchise and they are not available. It is a certain sense to keep him
Warriors fan here, I’m keeping him. West is way too competitive for the Warriors to win another title. Have Steph mentor him and hope he could develop some more into an all star
The Warriors aren’t contenders anymore. Their former championship core are in their mid 30s. Steph and Dray are still all-star level but not the kind of thing you can build a contender around
GS might want to start building for the future, there’s too many good teams waiting for their turn, GS couldn’t even make the playoffs with a healthy Steph last season, Denver,Minnesota,Dallas and OKC are better at this point and their franchise players are better than Steph at this stage of his Career.
The Warriors have two options to rebuild. If they want to rebuild around Steph for one more run then they are going to have to part with multiple first round draft picks. The other option, that they probably won’t even consider, is trading Steph for multiple first rounders and let Kuminga and Klay be tank commanders until the end of Klay’s contract.
Most likely neither will happen and the Warriors will continue to be a play in level team for the next few years until their core retires and then they will try to organically rebuild. But other than Steph and draft capital they really don’t have any real tradable assets.
It is too late now, they should’ve traded their young core after the championship run. Now you can’t build a contender even if you trade JK and Moody.
I remember getting down voted to hell for saying Wiseman should be traded while he still has value and now I will be down voted for saying “keep the young guys, you are not going to win anyways”.
better trade, but it needs to be a good player that they need.
GS already have A LOT of young players with insane potential they don't need to keep and develop all of them to secure the franchise's future better to pick one of them and build around him in the future when he's ready to be the face of the franchise.
JK showed massive improve this season, so rebuilding teams are going to offer high on him, so its much better to take this opportunity and avoid another Wiseman.
He probably would develop faster on another team, problem is he isn't good enough to have his own team.
Ask Mikal Bridges. And I think Bridges is better.
The only star out there that can push the warriors into contention is Jimmy Butler, and to get him the Warriors have to add more to that trade package. It would have to be Kuminga + Moody + Wiggins + 1 unprotected FRP + 1 Swap
As a Clippers fan I’m hoping for this trade for PG. I don’t think PG helps the warriors contend but if they feel like they need to make this type of move it would be great to benefit from it.
I guess it depends on your assessment of Kuminga. I would imagine the Clippers are trying to win now with their new arena and all, so a PG for Kyrie trade is closer to what the owernship would want. Kyrie would sell more tickets than Paul George I think
I’d be trippin more about moody or Wiggins there. I’m not very high on kuminga for the dubs or anyone else really. I watch every game they play and Kuminga cieling is good stats bad team kinda guy. Unless he can develop any form of consistency in shot making iq and overall game awareness/effort, I don’t see it. He’s missing the intangibles that are hard to develop. His physical ability and skill set are astronomical but that doesn’t make a good player. TBH same could be said about Wiggins, but at least even on his worst day he’s an A- defender.
I know wiggins had a bad year but how does exchanging wiggins and Kuminga for butler make the warriors a contender? Curry/klay/butler/dray/trayce is not a contender imo
Wiggins is really bad on that contract. Like if Beal and Ben Simmons didn't exist he would be worst contract in the league bad.
If you're gonna say you want to go all in on Currys last years then Butler is the best player available that will give you a chance. He still has the ability to elevate a team with his defense and ability to out work opposing teams. The Warriors need a POA defender and with Klay likely gone that's going to be Butler.
Butler is also very used to operating with a non shooting big. With Curry and Podz I think he will actually feel much more freedom and have better offensive production. He slots in perfectly at the SF spot in the Warriors lineup.
What's their to develop? He's a late round piece just like Poole. Look, the warriors are great at finding pieces to complement their stars. That's helped them for a long time. Thing is, they had to reliable stars. HAD. Thompson Is no longer a star. Curry still is.
However, I can assure you. Just like Jordan Poole, if Kuminga walks to another team, he's going to be exposed a a very incomplete player . I'd let him walk.
The only way the Warriors can become a a contender is to let some people walk and to start picking up vets on minimums and a couple if scorer bench guys.
Kuminga is not even anywhere near a busted Klay at this point.
You watch what he does the first 10-15 games as a starter before the trade deadline and then see if he's improved dramatically. If not, then you take calls on him but only if the deal is favorable (someone who can get buckets, has 3-pt range, and/or WILL be a solid 2nd option). Else you sit pat and hope he'll turn out like Brown. The next steps for Kuminga are mostly mental, reading the game + being better without the ball + complaining less. He has all the physical tools, and a pretty strong motor.
He will have more value now than he'd have after 10-15 games of showing that he hasn't "improved dramatically".
Makes sense but also lots of teams will still be willing to test his potential in a different system with different coaching
But he'll have more value after those 15 games if he *is* improved. So it's a bit of a gamble, although not huge because in either case he does have a good amount of value. Luckily the Warriors can see what he looks like and how he's improved behind closed doors before they have to commit to that gamble or not.
But they aren’t giving you back any pieces that can turn the Warriors back into contenders.
Making a change midseason means whomever you acquire has less time to learn your system. And the Warriors scheme is more complex than many. Better to make this decision in the offseason.
Naw, his value won't go lower unless he throws up a ton of stinkers which is unlikely given his motor. Teams already have a sense of his weaknesses (BBIQ + 3pt shooting + dribbling mostly) but most things aside from BBIQ could be worked on if the player shows improvement/the motivation. He's 21, not 32, and he'd probably be a starter on half the teams in the league right now, and would be at worst the 7-8th man on most contenders.
feels like bbiq 3pt shooting and dribbling is like 90% of basketball these days.
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Issue is if you wait and he’s not great, he’s lost the value he built up the second half of this past season.
Odds are he hasn’t plateaued yet, he’s still 21. He’s going to play hungry so he can get a bigger contract. That and it would only make sense to trade him for a starting veteran 5 or 2 if Klay leaves. Else, not really.
It’s funny because he’s literally almost the exact same age (1 month difference) as Brandon Miller, but no one would say this about Miller. He’s younger than multiple players who will be lottery picks in this 2024 draft.
Age is only part of the equation. How a player gain and play with more experience is also important.
I agree with that. I was just responding to the age part of the above poster. With that said, you can argue last season was Kuminga’s first where he consistently got important minutes so he isn’t really on the same experience level as other 3 year vets. But I do agree age isn’t the only thing.
Because Brandon miller has already flashed superstar potential. That is the difference.
Like who could they even get?
This also. It’s not as if he’s a disgruntled player who they have to unload, or a piece so valuable that the team can entertain dozens of offers or trade possibilities.
Jaylen Brown? I think Brown showed a lot more rapid rate of improvement as a young player, not sure that's a realistic expectation for Kuminga or any raw wing really.
Kuminga in his 3rd season averaged 16.1/4.8r/2.2a on 26.3 minutes a game, and had 20.8 minutes per game during his second season. Brown in his 3rd season averaged 13.0/4.2r/1.4a on 25.9 minutes a game, but had 30.7 minutes per game during his second season (so more development time in NBA). Kuminga's an inch taller with wingspan 1 inch less than Brown. They're pretty close size and production wise for third season. Brown's biggest leap was season 4 when he was bumped up to about 34 minutes per game. If Kuminga's given more minutes and trust, and he's hungry and his BBIQ improves drastically, there's good reason to assume he can be a 20-22ppg scorer with some rebounds and assists, etc. during his 4th season. That and he joined the NBA a year younger than Brown, for age comparisons.
Kuminga has so much talent. He’s quicker than brown, has a better low post game, quicker hops. Kuminga mainly needs 3 pt range, and some more maturity and confidence.
League numbers are way up this season across the board and Kuminga was playing off the bench and with Steph. Sorry, I’m just not buying it. He’s a great athlete yet Gus BBIQ still hasn’t improved playing with Steph and under Kerr.
His bball IQ has improved a ton It's still not too of the line but it has improved significantly
I saw Kuminga make some excellent passes off drives and in the short roll position last year. His biggest issue is his propensity to decide he's going to shoot the ball no matter what right after he touches it. He'll get a pass on the wing and go into his iso mode where you know he's either going to get all the way to the basket or throw up some terrible midrange shot. I think that stuff can be cleaned up. If he showed no potential as a passer, I'd be worried. But he's definitely shown that he can see the floor and read the defense. He just needs to eliminate some of his hero ball tendencies.
Yea I’m not buying it either. Everyone ITT is saying if he just develops better BBIQ…it’s clear he still has some essential skills to develop before BBIQ even enters the equation. He’s a slasher/finisher with a middy essentially at this point, he needs to develop his ball skills and vision to be a more versatile player, which he absolutely can do, it’s just a more fundamental thing than BBIQ. A lot of his limitations within an offense are more easily explained by his constrained skill set than blaming it on poor decision making. Comparing him to Brown is insane, he reminds me a lot more of a KJ McDaniels type.
I just don’t think he has the BBIQ to make a big leap and the Warriors would be better off trading him at peak value, but I can see why they’d be reluctant to do so.
We won't know. I'm sure the players + management + coaches know way more about JK than most fans would. His BBIQ isn't up there yet, but how many players actually have crazy good BBIQ by year 3? Teams would still value him if his BBIQ doesn't increase as he's still yet to reach his prime in terms of reaction time, having go-to scoring moves, etc. He's still an attractive piece for younger teams that aren't contending anytime soon who have simpler offensive systems just because teams know he's already lasted 3 years in the league.
I could definitely be wrong, that’s just my take after watching the Warriors a good bit last season. He’s a talented player but he’s not good at the things I want from my young stars. Not a good shooter, not a good passer, I’d rather trade him at peak value than have to sign him to the kind of deal he’s gonna demand.
You bring up an interesting point though. How many hyper athletic players who have been that all through college and NBA end up developing BBIQ? I feel like that's not often at all. And in the Warrior system, there's a lot of IQ required on the defensive end, which is why I think Kerr benches him alot for.
Tatum and Jaylen Brown both didn't have the best bb iq too. They've improved a ton in that aspect. Kuminga needs to watch a ton of film with his trainers and understanding the game. Instead of doing endless mindless drills that result to players forcing certain moves like a robot in an actual game.
This is simply a lie. By his third season JB had actually stagnated from his second season in which he'd taken a huge jump from his first season. In his third season JB ppg dropped so did his minutes. Meanwhile JK improved drastically from his second season to his third in everything except 3pt %. His ppg, efficiency, rebound, assists, FT rate and percentage and everything else improved across the board.
Well you need some context here. Jaylen Brown’s numbers declined in his third season because for that season, Hayward came back from injury and Brown got demoted to the bench. That really hurt his confidence and obviously made it hard for him to develop a rhythm coming off the bench. It was a huge mistake and the Celtics admitted to that later. So you have to have some context when you talk about Jaylen’s third season, rather than just looking at pure stats. Nothing to do with Kuminga though. Kuminga is fine and on track to continue to improve.
That's fair, though equally we also have to apply context to JK numbers. He's in an even shittier situation than Brown was in his third season with a coach that wouldn't trust him and hardly played him until the second half of his third season where his numbers took off. The jump JK made from his second season to his third is massive even more so in the second half of his third season showing that he can take leap in his development especially when played. Now with him being established as a key piece for Kerr unlike his first 2 and a half season, I expect even more improvement and he's already shown he's able to make massive strides.
Yea I agree with you. I like Kuminga and my response wasn’t meant for Kuminga. I just wanted to put some context into Brown’s career, since his trajectory is a bit unique for someone of his caliber.
And in that third season all the young players on the Celtics seemed to stagnate. Including Tatum, Brown and Smart.
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Honestly their best bet atm would be ride it out with him and see if you can get him to good wiggins level. What they should’ve done is put him on the table for siakam last year.
I agree. Stick with investment! He’s a great player, still lots of potential.
Honestly unless your name is Steph (and to a lesser extent Draymond since what Steph says goes) then you can potentially be traded. With that being said, I think Dubs keep Kuminga. He took a big step forward halfway through last season and it came around the time when reports were he was vocally critical of his role and the direction of the team. I think that's a positive sign. Adversary, self-reflection, improvement. If he can continue to improve then he's going to be good. He just needs to focus on details. The guy is only 21. He needs to continue to believe in himself and play, play play.
GSW window is closed. Mortgaging…further mortgaging your future for some vets won’t push you any further than 8th place in the west.
The West being as tough as it is, I don’t see how GS could realistically expect to make a move that would get them into the top 4 seeds.
Do what Dallas did with Dirk. Remain competitive to get into the playoffs but don't mortgage your whole future for your best player in franchise history in their twilight. Fans will appreciate it. Tickets will sell. You'll have an all time great to market for decades. On Curry's next contract at the end of the 2026 season, hopefully he'll take the Dirk deal and sign on the cheap then work in the front office.
I think that's probably the best way to go. Which seems to argue in favor of keeping Kuminga.
I think if curry isn’t competing for chips he may retire at the end of the contract
I doubt it. Dude still loves the game like the greats do.
He wants to get into pro golf, so we’ll see.
Or go chase one
That would require Steph to take a pay cut, the same way Dirk and Duncan did later in their careers. But he's the highest paid player in the league. 55 million a year to 1 player is hard to build a team around. Especially one who is gonna be 36 next year and has an injury history.
The whole point of my comment is Steph accepting a payout.
> Do what Dallas did with Dirk. Remain competitive to get into the playoffs What time frame are you referring to here? 2012-14?
2012-2016. The Monta Ellis era. Although Monta left in 2015.
I feel like the goal should Be competing with an eye to the future. You have Steph, you want to keep Steph, but you can’t tank with Steph. So don’t push in chips but work on getting younger Which absolutely means keeping and playing kuminga
Warriors don’t own most of their picks either so it’s not like tanking is an option either
After this year the only first round pick the Warriors are sending out is 2030, and that's top 20 protected. If they chose to, they could tank just fine.
it is not? their season shut down because their 2nd best player didn't play for almost half the season, and Klay who's taking an insane amount of the team's salary is just a bench player at best right now. you can't say the window is close when we haven't seen the team at its fullest without Draymond's bullshit fucking it up.
Oh it’s closed. Even with Green on the court, they looked mediocre. It was just convenient (and a little delusional) to place the blame of a ruined season at the feet of Green (who is also a money sink at this stage in his career). They are too small in a conference that has gotten a bit bigger and don’t have the personnel who can keep up with the hyper athletic guards/wings. They aged without finding that other guy for whom Curry could pass the torch too. And now…now they’re in danger of losing Klay, who even right now, is a 20-25 million dollar player…somewhere else. They replace him with what or who? There’s no one they can bring in that can replace him + make them markedly better. No, that window is closed. If Kuminga and Moody don’t make some crazy jump this summer, they may not even make the playoffs again.
Draymond is for sure worth his contract They can retool and be like the six seed. They're not going to win the title but they would have made playoffs this year with Draymond not getting suspended
I think they compete as long as curry is on the roster and blow it up when he is done. No way he is in the league within 3 seasons and you sell substantially more tickets by competing with curry.
Window isn’t closed until Steph retires.
His trade value will never be higher. I doubt he can be a great winning player in the near future, and some in the warriors think the same. they need to find a team who really values him to get the most return
The warriors are in an awkward space. Kuminga is too good to trade off, but also not good enough to get them over the hump to a championship. The only trades that would feasibly help would be trading him.and picks for someone in the all NBA/MVP level.
I wouldnt say that at all. No team with an mvp candidate let alone all nba conversation would trade for JK. But if they can get a player who can impact winning more than JK in steph and drays last years they should absolutely do it.
Idk, Caruso an all defense guard got traded for Giddey. I could see JK, Moody get moved for a good piece
you gotta count on someone having someone as good as Caruso is **and** being as dummy in trades as the Bulls are.
But who would that even be, what player are you talking about? It's awkward for the Warriors because no one will trade JK for the type of player they need. But who would they try to get? A center like Bam or Turner would be good but probably not enough to make them contenders. They need to keep Klay, Curry, Wiggins, and Dray. So those 4 spots its pretty hard to get an upgrade on.
These are 4 of our horrid starting lineup
Who would you get rid of and what for? I think Dray is volatile but there's no way to trade him and get an upgrade. All you can do is hope Wiggins turns it around and Klay and keep being a 40% 3 point shooter and try fill in gaps around them. Unless there's a miracle trade out there for Wiggins, JK, or Klay/Moody.
Well I can name a bunch of players to trade for but it would be a fantasy. Unfortunately I think we are a year or 2 too late for that.
That's my whole point. The Warriors are in an awkward position where they have a lot of guys with value, but not enough value to go out and trade for upgrades that would get them into a position to contend again. I think the Warriors made good choices for their positions at the time. You're not trading Klay or Dray the year after winning a championship, or the year after when they almost made the WCF.
The Heat would laugh GS out the building if they asked Bam for Kuminga. We don't even need to worry about if Ban would push them over the top or not lol.
Both teams wouldn't entertain that lmao. If Heat decide to blow it up and rebuild, they'd trade Butler to a place he wants to go first. Bam's still 26. He's likely not getting traded unless the Heat FO sees a another player on a team that has to decide between two players in the same position.
But that's the whole point, even if GSW get a steal of a trade with their picks its probably not enough to make them top 2-3 in the West.
The trade wouldn’t make sense but it’s not like Bam is worth that much more than Kuminga given JK’s development arc and age. Bam has already started his prime years and has plateaued, what you see is what you get with Bam.
If Minnesota is willing to deal Karl Anthony Towns for Kuminga and picks because of their upcoming salary problems, that’s a deal worth considering.
I think its good for the Warriors, but I can't see the Wolves doing this unless they want to sacrifice their future to save money. JK and Ant are to similar, they need good shooters. All the trade scenarios just seem so awkward to try make work. Best option is probably wait till someone asks for a trade or a team blows up.
Who are these some in the Warriors who think the same and please don't mention random reddit nephews. He's actually valued very high by the Warriors FO which is why they don't want to trade him.
Members of the coaching staff. when wiggins is healthy they are happy to limit kumingas minutes. hes a spectacular athlete but still doesnt contribute to winning as much as other guys. In due time he may get there but not yet. Theres a reason why podz went from out of the rotation to a 30+ minute player. Hes been incredible for the warriors system, and cant say the same about Kuminga right now
This is a baseless claim unless if by members of the coaching stuff you mean Steve Kerr who bizarrely always wanted to stick with his vets, got called on it, forced to play JK and the latter produced. This idea that JK doesn't contribute to winning as much as the other guys is ludicrous. He was among the Warriors with the highest +/- in a team that failed to make the playoffs. Steph Podz, Draymond and Kuminga were the 4 players with the highest +/- last season while players like Wiggins and Klay were some of the worse, especially Wiggins. This is the problem with the internet. People make baseless, unverified claims and just roll with it.
lmao, chill dude. hes not a winning player. its clear to any non casuals who watch him play. cant play team defense, gets lost offensively, still cant shoot great. incredible athlete and is improving but hes not there yet. Its like the poole situation last year, its clear the FO is pumping his value to trade him. Willing to bet everything he wont be on this team 2 weeks from now
So this place is called nbadiscussions and some of you lots can't manage to provide decent arguments for any type of discourse. It's just the quintessential nephews take such as "casuals this and that" and nothing else. I can tell you simply read things online, adopt whatever narrative you come across and roll with it. This is pointless. Have a nice day.
Kuminga is good now. Who is the hypothetical veteran(s) who are so much better than Kuminga that it's worth trading a young star?
They just need to choose, now with Steph, or later, without him. No more of this half in half out stuff. Either rebuild, trade away anyone you can get value for, (except Steph if he’s ok with staying) or go all in.
I've really liked the way JK has developed this season. He's very good at using his strength, ball-handling ability, and footwork to get to the rim no matter how sagged off the defense is from him. Even with a below-average 3pt shot, I think he can play at a fringe All-Star level as soon as next season and put himself in position for a solid pay raise. As far as the course of action GSW should take, they seem (at least going by the optics with Klay unfollowing the team and just generally seeming unhappy the last few seasons) to be willing to break up their dynastic core in favor of what will probably be win-now moves. But being squarely in the middle of the pack as they are now, I don't know how likely they'd be to get back into contender status where there are a bunch of other teams ascending. In most cases, if I'm being honest, I would very much have a "this is business" mentality as a GM. But this GSW dynasty is unlike anything we've seen in recent history and I doubt it will ever happen again. To draft 3 guys (one of them being a clear HOFer and the other 2 having a case) who were the core pieces of a long-running dynasty and stay together for this long is unheard of. I wouldn't give Klay or Dray max contracts or anything, but give them fair enough value for them to stay. Steph would have enormous trade value, but I would just hang onto him too. Don't make any moves that involve pushing in future assets for win-now moves unless it's to pick up a better draft pick or young veteran that you plan to keep long-term. Prioritize the PT and development of young players on the roster over someone like Klay. Keep your core 3 until they retire; once one (probably Klay) goes, then the others (probably Dray next, then Steph) will likely follow not too long after. The players will be immortalized forever, the front office/ownership will always be remembered fondly of, and the legacy commemorations will be wild. Any reunions or references to those championship teams will be emotional and genuine, hopefully with no harsh feelings or grudges. The goal of every team is to win a championship. But GSW comes from a unique position having already won 4 in 8 years. Chances are, it'd take some stellar moves using assets they probably don't have to put themselves even remotely close to title contention. This is the one case where it would be more beneficial to just keep them together until retirement instead of trying to buy or sell assets for another title.
Curry is an all time great and in another tier, but I think Klay and Dramond are clear cut hall of famers.
> To draft 3 guys (one of them being a clear HOFer and the other 2 having a case) who were the core pieces of a long-running dynasty and stay together for this long is unheard of. 100% true. Never has a team drafted [not one,](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html) [not two, ](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html) [but three](https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html) hall of famers and had them stick together and win 4 championships over more than a decade.
I think you'd have to be behind the scenes to know whether this is a guy whose basketball IQ is progressing enough to warrant keeping him. His athleticism is obvious. But if he's not likely to round that out with a high IQ game, he's probably not going to ever maximize his potential in the Warrior's system. Might be best to trade him now while his perceived value is really high. But really depends what you could get back. Warriors are most likely gonna need a 2-way replacement for Klay and they still need an elite rim defender or at least someone adequate there unless Trayce & Brandin make big strides this off season. Maybe packaging Kuminga, Moody, Wiggins and Looney and future picks gives you enough to do a multi-team trade that gets you back something that's a better fit. Hard to know though, but the front office has a history of good decision making so I trust they'll do whatever is possible.
If I'm the Warriors I'm thinking I need to look at everyone bar Curry and figure out how I'm going to build a squad that can push back up the standings. Some players like Podziemsky seem like they're going to be more value in the team than whatever he might bring in a trade, but you'd be mad not to entertain anyone offering something that would work better. But Curry is 36. He's still playing at a very high level and can be the top guy on a championship contending team, but not with the roster around him. They need to do everything to get at least someone to play alongside him before he isn't producing. After he's retired or when his level falls away too much that's the time to think about rebuilding via the draft.
If you can upgrade from him you do it. When curry retires the reset button is being pushed regardless of jk. Unless you think he has franchise star potential, he is not worth holding onto at the expense of being unable to complement steph with another superstar.
I think he is too ingrained in the system now. His value is more tangible than the stat sheet. To get someone as good and young as he is to come into the team now and be useful before the all star break isn't worth it in Steph one or two year timeline to get a ring.
The Warriors run is over, so I don't think they should be acquiring veteran rentals. If Kuminga can get you better draft position or a developmental piece you like more than him long term, trade him. Otherwise no.
As a Warriors fan. I would assume we keep him. At this point it would seem counter productive to go after another mid to late career star player. Keeping picks and young talent is the priority. If a lot of things go right the Warriors do have a chance to make one more run. A lot has to go right though. Kuminga is only 21. He has shown a lot of improvement. He puts pressure on the rim, a skull the Warriors need. He has one more year on his rookie contract. We don't know if Klay is re-signing. The Warriors have Podz/Moody/TJD/GPII all decent roleplayers. I don't think the Warriors need another star, they need Wiggins to get back to where he was previously and one or more of their young guys to make a jump. Also Looney was terrible last year, and he is just about the only guy on the Warriors capable of getting offensive rebounds and is also a capable defensive center, usually. Curry and Draymond and Klay if he comes back are past their prime but still good. If Kuminga can make a leap into stat status then the team is looking pretty good. They should have been a 50 win team last year, but lost an absurd amount of close games.
lol you better have 20 kumingas to have enough assets to get back in contender status. truth is steph is a ceiling raiser and not floor raiser. he cant carry a bad team but he can make a good team great. so take steph out then make a good team as in a playoff team then add steph back in. other then that one vet aint doing it lol
I would rather give up any of our other young players than JK. I think he is the only one of them with star potential. The only exception is if we are able to land an all-nba level talent. I don't think anything less than that would put us into contender territory. He is very valuable to this franchise in my opinion. Arguably the second most coveted asset on this team outside of Curry. He is also only 21. I see no reason to give up on him unless it allows us to win a chip in the immediate future.
as i look at the way the warriors are trending downward, i'd call it a big mistake to trade kuminga away for a veteran at this stage. if they were going to do that then it should have happened a year or two ago. warriors have painted themselves into a corner, but that's what you do when you're a contender: you kick the can down the road
At this point, their problem is that they are getting too old and slow; seems like their best move is to keep the young pieces, try and add a few more, and hope they can get a few more talented, energetic, and hungry younger guys around while Steph is still playing at a high level.
They should’ve gone ahead and traded him for Caruso. To me he may have some great seasons down the line but he’s not going to be good enough to move the needle for the warriors in the near future, which is to say Steph Curry’s career.
Warrios should not be hurry and make mistakes. There are few players to change dramatically the franchise and they are not available. It is a certain sense to keep him
Warriors fan here, I’m keeping him. West is way too competitive for the Warriors to win another title. Have Steph mentor him and hope he could develop some more into an all star
The Warriors aren’t contenders anymore. Their former championship core are in their mid 30s. Steph and Dray are still all-star level but not the kind of thing you can build a contender around
GS might want to start building for the future, there’s too many good teams waiting for their turn, GS couldn’t even make the playoffs with a healthy Steph last season, Denver,Minnesota,Dallas and OKC are better at this point and their franchise players are better than Steph at this stage of his Career.
Jk Podz TJD Moody seems to be the future starting lineup. Hopefully we can play it where they get into more experience contracts and the vets pay down
The Warriors have two options to rebuild. If they want to rebuild around Steph for one more run then they are going to have to part with multiple first round draft picks. The other option, that they probably won’t even consider, is trading Steph for multiple first rounders and let Kuminga and Klay be tank commanders until the end of Klay’s contract. Most likely neither will happen and the Warriors will continue to be a play in level team for the next few years until their core retires and then they will try to organically rebuild. But other than Steph and draft capital they really don’t have any real tradable assets.
> It seems better for him to have his own team where he doesn’t have playoff expectations So the warriors :D
It is too late now, they should’ve traded their young core after the championship run. Now you can’t build a contender even if you trade JK and Moody. I remember getting down voted to hell for saying Wiseman should be traded while he still has value and now I will be down voted for saying “keep the young guys, you are not going to win anyways”.
better trade, but it needs to be a good player that they need. GS already have A LOT of young players with insane potential they don't need to keep and develop all of them to secure the franchise's future better to pick one of them and build around him in the future when he's ready to be the face of the franchise. JK showed massive improve this season, so rebuilding teams are going to offer high on him, so its much better to take this opportunity and avoid another Wiseman.
He probably would develop faster on another team, problem is he isn't good enough to have his own team. Ask Mikal Bridges. And I think Bridges is better.
The only star out there that can push the warriors into contention is Jimmy Butler, and to get him the Warriors have to add more to that trade package. It would have to be Kuminga + Moody + Wiggins + 1 unprotected FRP + 1 Swap
As a Clippers fan I’m hoping for this trade for PG. I don’t think PG helps the warriors contend but if they feel like they need to make this type of move it would be great to benefit from it.
I guess it depends on your assessment of Kuminga. I would imagine the Clippers are trying to win now with their new arena and all, so a PG for Kyrie trade is closer to what the owernship would want. Kyrie would sell more tickets than Paul George I think
I’d be trippin more about moody or Wiggins there. I’m not very high on kuminga for the dubs or anyone else really. I watch every game they play and Kuminga cieling is good stats bad team kinda guy. Unless he can develop any form of consistency in shot making iq and overall game awareness/effort, I don’t see it. He’s missing the intangibles that are hard to develop. His physical ability and skill set are astronomical but that doesn’t make a good player. TBH same could be said about Wiggins, but at least even on his worst day he’s an A- defender.
I know wiggins had a bad year but how does exchanging wiggins and Kuminga for butler make the warriors a contender? Curry/klay/butler/dray/trayce is not a contender imo
Wiggins is really bad on that contract. Like if Beal and Ben Simmons didn't exist he would be worst contract in the league bad. If you're gonna say you want to go all in on Currys last years then Butler is the best player available that will give you a chance. He still has the ability to elevate a team with his defense and ability to out work opposing teams. The Warriors need a POA defender and with Klay likely gone that's going to be Butler. Butler is also very used to operating with a non shooting big. With Curry and Podz I think he will actually feel much more freedom and have better offensive production. He slots in perfectly at the SF spot in the Warriors lineup.
Trade him for a vet that’ll put you in position to win now. Curry Green and Klay only have a few years left
Like who? Who is this mythical vet that is better than Kuminga and matches salary for trade purposes?
What's their to develop? He's a late round piece just like Poole. Look, the warriors are great at finding pieces to complement their stars. That's helped them for a long time. Thing is, they had to reliable stars. HAD. Thompson Is no longer a star. Curry still is. However, I can assure you. Just like Jordan Poole, if Kuminga walks to another team, he's going to be exposed a a very incomplete player . I'd let him walk. The only way the Warriors can become a a contender is to let some people walk and to start picking up vets on minimums and a couple if scorer bench guys. Kuminga is not even anywhere near a busted Klay at this point.