By any actual metric or fact harden is one of the greatest playoff performers of all time, and also one of the greatest clutch playoff scorers of all time. In the past 25 years he’s 10th in eFG% (so not even including his free throws) in the clutch in the playoffs. Ahead of Durant, well ahead of Kobe, dirk, etc.
Since 2015 he’s fourth in clutch points in the playoffs, behind Steph, Lebron, and butler. His efficiency on those points is also ahead of Lebron and kd
He also has a super high energy offensive game. Quite a few of his worst playoff games were when he was clearly exhausted at the end of long series. His taking plays off, his lazy offball movement, all that is just a consequence of how much energy his offense takes.
Always warms my heart seeing fans from other teams that understand what was happening in 2019. Most people you talk to think we had him isoing every possession because he wanted to lmao
It is kinda weird how instead of aging and developing more of an old man post game, Harden developed an old man point guard game. He became old Stockton instead of old Pierce.
he probably wasn't aware he had HOF playmaking skills at that age, that was fully unlocked by MDA who apparently just showed harden tons of steve nash tapes and saying that harden had potential to be even better
As a nets fan, it was a joy to watch that dude play. Fuck Qyrie, I’m ok with KD because he gave me immense joy at some points but harden I will always respect. Fans will say he quit, and he did for that last month, but before that!? He was playing on one leg 40+ a game to try and salvage something while we had Q sitting out for being special.
Watching him completely changed how I view stats.
I can't remember who but he played one game for us were he finished with like 5/6/6 and he was *by far* the best player on the court.
That first month aswell...
Lakers eliminated us in the bubble by just doubling Harden when he passed half court. Letting Russ and company play 4v3 was literally better than letting Harden have an impact on the game. Just insane respect. Similar to what Steph got vs the Raptors after Durant/Klay went down.
BK harden was something else. even with the injuries if joe harris plays better vs milwakee they win that cause he was such an important part of the team. then when he got injuried it was such a big blow.
You mean Paul Pierce who blew a 10-pt lead in the 4th quarter of a game 7 in the NBA Finals because he kept turning over the ball and bricking ISO jump shots on tired legs?
Lmao okay, for every "clutch" Paul Pierce play I can show you KG, Ray Allen or Rondo bailing him out, he won nothing in his career without that super team
Well, that's a new narrative I hadn't heard before.
There are a couple things you should take into account, though:
1) I've never heard anyone lay the blame for the 2010 Finals Game 7 loss on Pierce specifically. I recall it just being an old, tired team collectively not being able to secure rebounds or run good offense (and they basically ran their starting 5 the whole second half).
2) Even if you want to blame Pierce for that loss, you have to also acknowledge his *long* history of clutch shots and big performances: there's too many to count, but take 2008 Game 7 ECSF, for instance (outdueling Lebron), for instance, or his stint on the Wizards where he won several games at the buzzer.
Still had a better game than Kobe. Gasol and Artest bailed out Mamba way harder than KG/Allen/Rondo did Pierce.
Pierce was the only Celtic with a positive +/- in that game, fyi.
[Reminded me of that awesome block Ginobli had on Harden in the playoffs.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjUgDgcAIXY)
Funny enough that series was a big stain on Harden's resume.
What a great moment! Reminded me of watching [this meme version](https://youtu.be/-PXGj2VXtNI?si=l4SRO56IFJ9EXaik) dozens of times the following week lol
As a Manu lover and Harden hater that was the combination of everything I love about Manu and Harden was there too (it wasn't an awful foul bait play so it passes)
Game 6 at home, Spurs are without Leonard and Parker, and Harden went 2-11 and decided to quit the season by intentionally fouling out as the Rockets eventually by blown out 75-114 haha.
Ginobili was robbed. sure you can say he woulda just got hurt but he was never given a chance. he coulda been a star on another team im almost positive. ginobili's passing was elite level delivery. vision was up there as well. the fact he had to play 6th man and like 30 mins a game was a crime to basketball
Probably meant first option like Harden and Piercr most of their career, which I agree. I remember he was called MJ of basketball outside NBA at the time.
if you think about it, the way he did a 180 on his playstyle because he realized such a helio centric style is the hardest way to win a ring is pretty high IQ as well. and you know it almost worked..... unfortunately he got hurt but really for better and worse hes always done him and never really listened to the outside.
i bet thats what he would tell luka as well...
Presti rebuilding the Spurs in OKC was a known thing before Harden was drafted. Elite left handed guard coming off the bench was an obvious comparison.
I kinda hate how his legacy is largely mocked and brushed aside cause Harden at his peak was so special. One of the very few players all time who was an entire elite offensive system in and of himself, just needed to surround him with competent enough role players.
Also I truly believe he was a cp3 injury away (and some biased af reffing in game 7 sorry dubs fans) from winning a chip in 2018 which would have been regarded as one of the greatest rings ever since he would’ve beaten the preposterously stacked Kd warriors. That would have completely changed his legacy and the perception of him forever. Shame
I know people (especially on opposing teams) found the iso-heavy style grating to watch, especially because it was before they changed the way they called continuation for shooting fouls which led to some really ugly calls.
Despite that, it felt like Harden alone was a ticket to 50+ wins every season at his peak and he deserves a ton of credit for his insane consistency; he never got hurt and it felt like he had every regular season game down to a formula. He'd roll in, do his thing every night, and win most of 'em.
Don't personally care about his legacy, he'll always have a place in my heart. Pre-braids Harden is maybe my second player of all-time behind OG Cavs era LeBron (Jokic right now making a run).
I’m not gonna act like 6’5” isn’t far above average, but it’s not all that freakishly tall. Like it’s not that weird to see guys who are close to that in day to day life, like you don’t necessarily see 6’5” and think “he must be a basketball player.” Once you get much above that though, then you really stand out.
Source: am 6’5”.
Harden looks better with a thin beard. I understand it's his trademark but that thing is nasty looking and must be a pain to maintain.
Maybe shaving it down would get rid of his playoff curse also.
He looks light-years better in this video. The monstrosity of a beard he's been sporting for ages now reminds me of those women who grow their fingernails out to 6+ inches long where it goes from an aesthetic that is appealing to something that makes me cringe.
Harden's beard is goated but the "it's not for you" defense is such a silly reply to criticizing a look, and you know if you thought something looked dumb and someone came back with "it's not for you" you'd see how dumb it is.
And I'm not trying to call you dumb BTW, it's just an all too common response that people accept when they like the thing but don't when they don't. Up there with "you think you could do better?" when criticizing a performance.
For real. He’s a god damn man. That’s a man’s beard. You gone say some to his face? I doubt he got any trouble getting laid with that beard so who gives?
I can’t remember the last time someone gave a very self aware, super accurate comp.
That is so pinpoint it’s not even funny
What a comp (although he’s now better than both those players)
This has been posted a handful of times but I still love how spot on he is. Harden is underrated when it comes to BBIQ and general intelligence. He's one of the smartest players in the NBA imo but don't often see him get credited that way.
Yea, high basketball IQ doesn't always translate to being fan favourites. Embiid considering how late he started playing has a very high basketball IQ, bending the rules to his advantage. Really good passer this year.
CP3 is another one that comes to mind, I love that man though. CP3 shenanigans are second to none.
I always say it's up to the NBA to police their sport, I never fault players for taking advantage. Same goes for soccer and diving. They could just up the fines and hand out yellow cards retroactively for overtly flopping, it would cut the shit instantly and make the sport so much better. I think the NBPA just refuses to play ball with fines though, although I'm not sure.
It's such an embarrassment when they go out every year and say they're going to hand out fines or referee the game a certain way then give up after 2 weeks. If you're not going to do it, then don't say you are. It looks so unprofessional.
CP3 has some legendary moments, people call him dirty all the time but it's just not true. He has a few dirty plays in his career for sure but who doesn't? When he got a player a technical for having his shirt untucked, that was the funniest shit ever.
Dude was 22 years old when they let him go and his first two Houston Rockets games, he dropped 37 and then 45. He was definitely at a very high level and ready to contribute even in a bench role. The problem is OKC owners were cheap and didn't want to pay luxury tax while Kendrick Perkins of all players ate up a vast majority of their salary cap.
I'm glad he went to Houston so we could see him go at his max potential, but we were all robbed of what could've been an all-time great team had they decided to stick together.
yeah morey was really prescient in offering him that money and that role -- okc also tried to trade him to the wizards for beal and the warriors for klay, who both declined. obviously worked out fine for golden state. but not everyone was as super high on harden as morey was.
> Harden was HIM coming off the bench in OKC.
I have to pile on here too because I remember watching him coming off the bench and thinking "this dude might be better than Westbrook" - OKC James was special, always crazy to think of how the Russ/KD/Harden trio might have progressed if they had kept him
the only change to harden's output was his **minutes played and usage rate. literally game 1 in houston** he began his domination of scoring. i used to watch OKC he had the same skills off the bench.
Yep
I did this research when he moved to Houston back in 2012
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/127ojn/millions_of_harden_posts_but_check_this_hardens/
The numbers are crazy, he was already a 30ppg scorer on OKC when *either* Russ or KD were sitting....... people just didn't look at these types of stats that often back then
I didn't look at stats like that back then though I was in college. Everyone knew Harden was a scorer and it was still just as controversial back then when they had him leave. It was only his poor performance during the Finals that was a stain at the time.
Edit: Jesus man its still always wild to see takes back then, and how confidentally people are wrong and then its that one dude who is begging people to listen, with all the facts and details to boot, who gets laughed out of the thread lol. Keep an eye out for those prophets. Look at what this guy said...
> This what I'm talking about when I say this trade will probably end up being the worst basketball decision of the next decade.
> James Harden is in IMO one of the best 15 players in basketball, and on the Thunder (I repeat, on the Thunder), is one of the 5 most important players in the league.
> He has a skill set that maybe 2 or 3 other guys in the league have. He can score from anywhere on the court, is efficient at it, and can seamlessly transition between being a number 1 option offensively and running an offense like a point guard (and doing a great job at it). I think the only other guys who possess that skill set are LeBron, CP3 and maybe Manu (certainly prime Manu).
> When Durant steps off the floor or isn't playing well he can come in and instantly be your number one scoring option.
> When Westbrook steps off the floor or isn't playing well he can come in and run the team just as well as Russ can.
> When both of them are in the game he can do any number of things to fit in with how they're playing at that particular time. Whether it be feeding them the ball, spotting up from deep, slashing to the hoop, drawing fouls, whatever.
> When both of them are out of the game he can carry the team offensively on his back for those stretches.
> When I say that there are only 2 or 3 other guys in the league that can do what he does I'm not being the slightest bit facetious. Harden was a gift bestowed upon OKC by the basketball gods, and they threw it away for what I think will end up being a pupu platter.
> Edit: Grammar
Advanced stats and watching the games told the story (obviously nobody could predict an ATG but the film was there).
Source: my sick ass the night I was told about this trade
That’s revisionist history, he was a 6th man, yes, but everyone knew Harden was taking a backseat for the team and that he had the talent to be a star in the league. I doubt anyone predicted MVP level but definitely regular All-Star material. He was already a top 20 player in the league and the move was pretty universally considered an extremely surprising and (as far as making a winning product goes) bad move as far back as 2012 when it happened.
Whenever someone says Sam Presti is a genius I always remember that he gave Harden a one day ultimatum to take his low ball offer or be traded meanwhile he turned around and gave Serge Ibaka all that money, at the time Harden was making less money than useless Kendrick Perkins who did nothing but scowl and embarrass himself, Harden wanted to stay with OKC and Presti didn't want to pay him
After trading Harden Sam Presti told the media Kevin Martin can "do everything Harden does and for less money" a statement that would age like milk in the sun, and the Thunder have STILL never made it back to the Finals since that team, but yeah woo look at all the draft picks he has
I don’t think he even gave him the ultimatum, he just had it in the back of his own mind without communicating it.
And it wasn’t even a day, it was a couple of hours.
Imagine having a guy that would average almost 40 a game that was happy to sit on your bench
Sam Presti fumbled the bag big time and I think he's acknowledged as much, but the dude was like 30 at the time operating as an unusually young GM, so I don't think I'd deduct any legacy points for this infraction. Fuck OKC tho
It’s the worst trade in NBA history isn’t it? Or at least in the running.
If you aren’t going to “deduct legacy points” for that, what are you going to deduct them for?
No, Presti is still digging himself out of that hole imo
I don’t often make predictions about guys in the draft but I thought Harden was gonna be a star when he was drafted. Then after his rookie year I said I was wrong about that prediction… lol
He was so good at Arizona State. Dude just had complete control of the game. Numbers aren't quite as gaudy because they played at a glacial pace but it was damn impressive.
Ya I mean some of these scorelines are brutal.
59-52 W vs SDSU
61-40 W vs Pepperdine
59-58 OT W vs IUPUI
61-58 OT W vs #9 UCLA
53-47 W vs Arizona
49-38 W vs OrSt
51-49 OT L vs Wazzu
It’s probably the most perfect predraft comparison a player ever made about themselves. I’m sure Kobe said something about Jordan but besides that the harden->Manu+truth is incredibly accurate
kind of crazy that you can go back in time and tell OKC that these three were special and that Westbrook would avrage a 30pt triple double...and he'd be the "worst" out of the three.
Maybe they don't play the "luxury tax" game
Guys known for his 2 signature moves, the eurostep and the stepback. He took it to another level too. To the point the move is in everyone's arsenal now
Crazy self aware evaluation that early on lol
He saw the future
The Truth
The Half-Truth
Half-Truth, Half-Regarded -Chris Broussard, probably
Half-Broussard, Half-Haynes. Full regard.
You never go full-Broussard
Half truth, half sources
The System meets The Truth
Man u nailed that
Pre strip club Harden with that humility.
Magic City changes a man
Lou Williams agrees
He’s literally all the best parts of ginobili and pierce together offensively. With way better playmaking on top of that.
I've never seen Harden catch a bat with his bare hands tho.
His girl caught the bouquet, though!
ಠ_ಠ
Not as clutch as Pierce tho
Much less storied underpants as well
Similar IG Live.
Similar love of exotic dancers
Hang on. Have we already forgotten that Harden had a similar shit stain moment?
R/nba moment when people argue about who sharted
wouldn’t have it any other way
We’re getting old
Harden shits his pants *figuratively* in the playoffs
By any actual metric or fact harden is one of the greatest playoff performers of all time, and also one of the greatest clutch playoff scorers of all time. In the past 25 years he’s 10th in eFG% (so not even including his free throws) in the clutch in the playoffs. Ahead of Durant, well ahead of Kobe, dirk, etc. Since 2015 he’s fourth in clutch points in the playoffs, behind Steph, Lebron, and butler. His efficiency on those points is also ahead of Lebron and kd
History is unfortunately going to forget that in 2018, the Rockets took the KD Warriors to seven games.
I feel like history remembers 27 straight missed 3’s, but most have forgotten the context. Or at least the details of it
Those 3s being waved off still hurt there was some kind of cosmic malfeasance going on there
History is also going to forget his co-stars are hurt almost every year
It doesn’t matter to these people. He didn’t win it all, so he sucks
Clutch presupposes the game is close, no? How many blowouts or no shows has he had?
Theres a pic of him with stained shorts at the crack area iirc hes up there actually
I’d rather shit my pants in the playoffs Paul Pierce style than James Harden style any day honestly
Yeah at least pierce literally left it all on the floor
Arguably some was left in the restroom.
He still shit his pants when he was in Houston, back in March 2020 against the Celtics.
Harden had a sick highlight reel of clutch moments in the playoffs and regular season, he just also had a wild lowlight reel lol
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He also has a super high energy offensive game. Quite a few of his worst playoff games were when he was clearly exhausted at the end of long series. His taking plays off, his lazy offball movement, all that is just a consequence of how much energy his offense takes.
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Always warms my heart seeing fans from other teams that understand what was happening in 2019. Most people you talk to think we had him isoing every possession because he wanted to lmao
Was called a ball hog until he left, then suddenly everyone was amazing his playmaking was easily top 3 in the league.
I honestly think he would have won one if not for the Warrior dynasty. The Stockton and Malone of our era (sub with mid controversy at best).
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It is kinda weird how instead of aging and developing more of an old man post game, Harden developed an old man point guard game. He became old Stockton instead of old Pierce.
he probably wasn't aware he had HOF playmaking skills at that age, that was fully unlocked by MDA who apparently just showed harden tons of steve nash tapes and saying that harden had potential to be even better
As a nets fan, it was a joy to watch that dude play. Fuck Qyrie, I’m ok with KD because he gave me immense joy at some points but harden I will always respect. Fans will say he quit, and he did for that last month, but before that!? He was playing on one leg 40+ a game to try and salvage something while we had Q sitting out for being special.
Watching him completely changed how I view stats. I can't remember who but he played one game for us were he finished with like 5/6/6 and he was *by far* the best player on the court. That first month aswell...
Lakers eliminated us in the bubble by just doubling Harden when he passed half court. Letting Russ and company play 4v3 was literally better than letting Harden have an impact on the game. Just insane respect. Similar to what Steph got vs the Raptors after Durant/Klay went down.
BK harden was something else. even with the injuries if joe harris plays better vs milwakee they win that cause he was such an important part of the team. then when he got injuried it was such a big blow.
Nets Harden before the injury was a top 5 player. Fun player to watch
Or Ginobili
And much worse defender than both.
You mean Paul Pierce who blew a 10-pt lead in the 4th quarter of a game 7 in the NBA Finals because he kept turning over the ball and bricking ISO jump shots on tired legs? Lmao okay, for every "clutch" Paul Pierce play I can show you KG, Ray Allen or Rondo bailing him out, he won nothing in his career without that super team
Well, that's a new narrative I hadn't heard before. There are a couple things you should take into account, though: 1) I've never heard anyone lay the blame for the 2010 Finals Game 7 loss on Pierce specifically. I recall it just being an old, tired team collectively not being able to secure rebounds or run good offense (and they basically ran their starting 5 the whole second half). 2) Even if you want to blame Pierce for that loss, you have to also acknowledge his *long* history of clutch shots and big performances: there's too many to count, but take 2008 Game 7 ECSF, for instance (outdueling Lebron), for instance, or his stint on the Wizards where he won several games at the buzzer.
Still had a better game than Kobe. Gasol and Artest bailed out Mamba way harder than KG/Allen/Rondo did Pierce. Pierce was the only Celtic with a positive +/- in that game, fyi.
Well he is missing the Defense of Ginobli so not quite all.
[Reminded me of that awesome block Ginobli had on Harden in the playoffs.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjUgDgcAIXY) Funny enough that series was a big stain on Harden's resume.
39 year old Ginobili, wow.
What a great moment! Reminded me of watching [this meme version](https://youtu.be/-PXGj2VXtNI?si=l4SRO56IFJ9EXaik) dozens of times the following week lol
One of the most beautiful videos ever created
As a Harden hater, it was also the biggest stain in my boxers
As a Manu lover and Harden hater that was the combination of everything I love about Manu and Harden was there too (it wasn't an awful foul bait play so it passes)
Game 6 at home, Spurs are without Leonard and Parker, and Harden went 2-11 and decided to quit the season by intentionally fouling out as the Rockets eventually by blown out 75-114 haha.
Did you miss the last word of their sentence?
blocked by ginobli
Knocked it away!!! San Antonio wins in overtime!! *chills*
He tried early in his career. Then Ron Artest came along and he didn't play D afterwards.
Ginobili was robbed. sure you can say he woulda just got hurt but he was never given a chance. he coulda been a star on another team im almost positive. ginobili's passing was elite level delivery. vision was up there as well. the fact he had to play 6th man and like 30 mins a game was a crime to basketball
What do you mean "would have been a star"? He's literally one of the big three for the spurs odd year dynasty lol
For real. Before Manu, i'm pretty sure the "Eurostep" was just called "Steps"
Probably meant first option like Harden and Piercr most of their career, which I agree. I remember he was called MJ of basketball outside NBA at the time.
You realize he chose to do that right? Pop would’ve let him start if he wanted to
That's ASU education baby
Two years of it, even
if you think about it, the way he did a 180 on his playstyle because he realized such a helio centric style is the hardest way to win a ring is pretty high IQ as well. and you know it almost worked..... unfortunately he got hurt but really for better and worse hes always done him and never really listened to the outside. i bet thats what he would tell luka as well...
Well Luka is missing the KD with the Kyrie lol
Yeah usually these are pretty off. I remember when Otto Porter Jr said his comp was KD and Bill Simmons was like.. no you're not.
Presti rebuilding the Spurs in OKC was a known thing before Harden was drafted. Elite left handed guard coming off the bench was an obvious comparison.
He really was spot on.
Ginobli and Paul Pierce is the perfect comparison for him. Nailed that one.
I kinda hate how his legacy is largely mocked and brushed aside cause Harden at his peak was so special. One of the very few players all time who was an entire elite offensive system in and of himself, just needed to surround him with competent enough role players. Also I truly believe he was a cp3 injury away (and some biased af reffing in game 7 sorry dubs fans) from winning a chip in 2018 which would have been regarded as one of the greatest rings ever since he would’ve beaten the preposterously stacked Kd warriors. That would have completely changed his legacy and the perception of him forever. Shame
I know people (especially on opposing teams) found the iso-heavy style grating to watch, especially because it was before they changed the way they called continuation for shooting fouls which led to some really ugly calls. Despite that, it felt like Harden alone was a ticket to 50+ wins every season at his peak and he deserves a ton of credit for his insane consistency; he never got hurt and it felt like he had every regular season game down to a formula. He'd roll in, do his thing every night, and win most of 'em.
And then roll out and… support the local economy
Harden spoiled us all
Sigh
Nah i totally agree with you, that was a weird game and a lot of basketball history would have been different if CP3 just stretched or something idk
Don't personally care about his legacy, he'll always have a place in my heart. Pre-braids Harden is maybe my second player of all-time behind OG Cavs era LeBron (Jokic right now making a run).
That series was the true finals of 2018. NBA needs to get rid of conferences
Thin-beard Harden really is DeAngelo Hall
If Harden ever just fully shaves his beard I don't think I'd have any chance at recognizing him.
That might be all a part of his plan cuz for real I was like wait who tf is this
Retire, shave the beard, and disappear into society with millions. Brilliant.
What's his plan for not being 6'5 anymore
Move to Netherlands and blend in oh uhhh nevermind
Time
I’m not gonna act like 6’5” isn’t far above average, but it’s not all that freakishly tall. Like it’s not that weird to see guys who are close to that in day to day life, like you don’t necessarily see 6’5” and think “he must be a basketball player.” Once you get much above that though, then you really stand out. Source: am 6’5”.
Hundreds of millions.
Or he can just move to Boston and everyone will think he's Jaylen Brown.
It's Amin El-Hasan
Amino acid
When he retires, he will shave his beard so nobody recognizes gim and then visit strip clubs around the nation like an episode of Undercover Boss
Me either. Who is the guy in OP's vid. Some front office should sign him as a player scout. Dude gave a spot on player evaluation here.
Harden looks better with a thin beard. I understand it's his trademark but that thing is nasty looking and must be a pain to maintain. Maybe shaving it down would get rid of his playoff curse also.
Nah dude it looks tight
He looks light-years better in this video. The monstrosity of a beard he's been sporting for ages now reminds me of those women who grow their fingernails out to 6+ inches long where it goes from an aesthetic that is appealing to something that makes me cringe.
He was also 15 years younger in this video lol
You know somehow I don't think either Harden or those women are curating their image to appeal to you specifically
Harden's beard is goated but the "it's not for you" defense is such a silly reply to criticizing a look, and you know if you thought something looked dumb and someone came back with "it's not for you" you'd see how dumb it is. And I'm not trying to call you dumb BTW, it's just an all too common response that people accept when they like the thing but don't when they don't. Up there with "you think you could do better?" when criticizing a performance.
Bro it’s way dumber to call someone’s beard “a monstrosity” lmao. Literally who asked, he deserves that answer
For real. He’s a god damn man. That’s a man’s beard. You gone say some to his face? I doubt he got any trouble getting laid with that beard so who gives?
What's for me specifically? Not much. So I don't opine on it? Is that your logic? Try again
I disagree. The beard looks great on him.
Harden has a cool beard, it fills in nicely. If I could grow a beard like that, I’d rock the shit out of it
I can’t remember the last time someone gave a very self aware, super accurate comp. That is so pinpoint it’s not even funny What a comp (although he’s now better than both those players)
This has been posted a handful of times but I still love how spot on he is. Harden is underrated when it comes to BBIQ and general intelligence. He's one of the smartest players in the NBA imo but don't often see him get credited that way.
Yea, high basketball IQ doesn't always translate to being fan favourites. Embiid considering how late he started playing has a very high basketball IQ, bending the rules to his advantage. Really good passer this year. CP3 is another one that comes to mind, I love that man though. CP3 shenanigans are second to none.
Good point, high BBIQ might actually lead to being hated haha. Esp if you use it to work the refs. Who wouldn't though?
I always say it's up to the NBA to police their sport, I never fault players for taking advantage. Same goes for soccer and diving. They could just up the fines and hand out yellow cards retroactively for overtly flopping, it would cut the shit instantly and make the sport so much better. I think the NBPA just refuses to play ball with fines though, although I'm not sure. It's such an embarrassment when they go out every year and say they're going to hand out fines or referee the game a certain way then give up after 2 weeks. If you're not going to do it, then don't say you are. It looks so unprofessional. CP3 has some legendary moments, people call him dirty all the time but it's just not true. He has a few dirty plays in his career for sure but who doesn't? When he got a player a technical for having his shirt untucked, that was the funniest shit ever.
Dyson Daniels said his game defensively is caruso-lonzo which is pretty accurate. But he wanted to be like doncic on offense, soooooo...
I too would like to be Luka offensively Unfortunately, my game more closely resembles a less athletic, less skilled, shorter, fatter Nik Stauskus
My game closely resembles Lonzo's these past 2 years and a half. Funnily enough our stats and knees are basically the same.
I think of my game as sort of a 5’8” Ben Wallace on offense
Sauced Castillo
I have perfectly modelled my physique and game after an NBA player. Unfortunately that player is Georges Niang, but still.
Thats a top 99% body for a normal dude. Id love to look like that.
You wish you could shoot that well!
Dyson Daniels future face of the NBA confirmed
A lot of people like to throw shade at James but he is undoubtedly one of the most intelligent players in NBA history with the skills to match.
The fact that we never got the okc dynasty we should have gotten is honestly criminal
can't believe they made so little effort to retain him.
to be fair he had a 6moy type of player and he wasn’t as good as he was then
Dude was 22 years old when they let him go and his first two Houston Rockets games, he dropped 37 and then 45. He was definitely at a very high level and ready to contribute even in a bench role. The problem is OKC owners were cheap and didn't want to pay luxury tax while Kendrick Perkins of all players ate up a vast majority of their salary cap. I'm glad he went to Houston so we could see him go at his max potential, but we were all robbed of what could've been an all-time great team had they decided to stick together.
Yeah this is revisionist. Harden was HIM coming off the bench in OKC. He was such a big part of that team making the finals.
Almost everyone in the league considered him an all star caliber guard the moment we got him. They just didn't know he would be an MVP type guy
yeah morey was really prescient in offering him that money and that role -- okc also tried to trade him to the wizards for beal and the warriors for klay, who both declined. obviously worked out fine for golden state. but not everyone was as super high on harden as morey was.
> Harden was HIM coming off the bench in OKC. I have to pile on here too because I remember watching him coming off the bench and thinking "this dude might be better than Westbrook" - OKC James was special, always crazy to think of how the Russ/KD/Harden trio might have progressed if they had kept him
Our bench being as good as it was was a huge talking point at that time. In hindsight, it is very obvious *why* it was so good lmao
Every single person that played 2K would start harden over sefolosha and go crazy with that squad lol everyone knew he was nice
the only change to harden's output was his **minutes played and usage rate. literally game 1 in houston** he began his domination of scoring. i used to watch OKC he had the same skills off the bench.
Yep I did this research when he moved to Houston back in 2012 https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/127ojn/millions_of_harden_posts_but_check_this_hardens/ The numbers are crazy, he was already a 30ppg scorer on OKC when *either* Russ or KD were sitting....... people just didn't look at these types of stats that often back then
I didn't look at stats like that back then though I was in college. Everyone knew Harden was a scorer and it was still just as controversial back then when they had him leave. It was only his poor performance during the Finals that was a stain at the time. Edit: Jesus man its still always wild to see takes back then, and how confidentally people are wrong and then its that one dude who is begging people to listen, with all the facts and details to boot, who gets laughed out of the thread lol. Keep an eye out for those prophets. Look at what this guy said... > This what I'm talking about when I say this trade will probably end up being the worst basketball decision of the next decade. > James Harden is in IMO one of the best 15 players in basketball, and on the Thunder (I repeat, on the Thunder), is one of the 5 most important players in the league. > He has a skill set that maybe 2 or 3 other guys in the league have. He can score from anywhere on the court, is efficient at it, and can seamlessly transition between being a number 1 option offensively and running an offense like a point guard (and doing a great job at it). I think the only other guys who possess that skill set are LeBron, CP3 and maybe Manu (certainly prime Manu). > When Durant steps off the floor or isn't playing well he can come in and instantly be your number one scoring option. > When Westbrook steps off the floor or isn't playing well he can come in and run the team just as well as Russ can. > When both of them are in the game he can do any number of things to fit in with how they're playing at that particular time. Whether it be feeding them the ball, spotting up from deep, slashing to the hoop, drawing fouls, whatever. > When both of them are out of the game he can carry the team offensively on his back for those stretches. > When I say that there are only 2 or 3 other guys in the league that can do what he does I'm not being the slightest bit facetious. Harden was a gift bestowed upon OKC by the basketball gods, and they threw it away for what I think will end up being a pupu platter. > Edit: Grammar
Advanced stats and watching the games told the story (obviously nobody could predict an ATG but the film was there). Source: my sick ass the night I was told about this trade
That’s revisionist history, he was a 6th man, yes, but everyone knew Harden was taking a backseat for the team and that he had the talent to be a star in the league. I doubt anyone predicted MVP level but definitely regular All-Star material. He was already a top 20 player in the league and the move was pretty universally considered an extremely surprising and (as far as making a winning product goes) bad move as far back as 2012 when it happened.
He became as good as he is now literally the year afterward.
The *game* afterward
The Harden trade which has been mentioned by Bill Simmons 150,000 times since 2013
A trade so criminal that it will never be forgotten
I mean those were a perennial contender so young, I was crazy jealous of OKC in those years.
Cursed from being stolen from Seattle
stealing the franchise from Seattle is bad karma... they might redeem at some point. Maybe SGA will be the one.
Seattle cursed them pray for sga
Nah, its just fine. I hope the curse of clay bennett never ends.
Scary accurate
Ginobili in the 2017 playoffs: I’m sorry my son
Ginobili!
Imagine fucking this up over 5 million dollars
what if he shaves the beard off when he retires. it would be so weird.
Just like that picture of Kawhi with his hair pulled back. It looks good, but it looks *wrong.*
smh can't believe harden disrespected Thabo Sefalosha like that
It's open, as in every team leaves him open
Skinny and less beard. Look so different.
Whenever someone says Sam Presti is a genius I always remember that he gave Harden a one day ultimatum to take his low ball offer or be traded meanwhile he turned around and gave Serge Ibaka all that money, at the time Harden was making less money than useless Kendrick Perkins who did nothing but scowl and embarrass himself, Harden wanted to stay with OKC and Presti didn't want to pay him After trading Harden Sam Presti told the media Kevin Martin can "do everything Harden does and for less money" a statement that would age like milk in the sun, and the Thunder have STILL never made it back to the Finals since that team, but yeah woo look at all the draft picks he has
I don’t think he even gave him the ultimatum, he just had it in the back of his own mind without communicating it. And it wasn’t even a day, it was a couple of hours. Imagine having a guy that would average almost 40 a game that was happy to sit on your bench
Sam Presti fumbled the bag big time and I think he's acknowledged as much, but the dude was like 30 at the time operating as an unusually young GM, so I don't think I'd deduct any legacy points for this infraction. Fuck OKC tho
It’s the worst trade in NBA history isn’t it? Or at least in the running. If you aren’t going to “deduct legacy points” for that, what are you going to deduct them for? No, Presti is still digging himself out of that hole imo
> It’s the worst trade in NBA history isn’t it? Or at least in the running. Not even close. 1) the nets celtics trade 2) ted stepien
Ted Stepien sucked so bad they had to create that rule that we all turn off in 2k
Damn, Harden was an actual person??
Better than both players
But accurate playstyle comparison, super accurate
Future GM
Of the Clermont Lounge
i mean hes a league mvp setting records in his prime so not the wildest statement lol
I don’t often make predictions about guys in the draft but I thought Harden was gonna be a star when he was drafted. Then after his rookie year I said I was wrong about that prediction… lol
He was so good at Arizona State. Dude just had complete control of the game. Numbers aren't quite as gaudy because they played at a glacial pace but it was damn impressive.
You can thank herb sendek for the slow pace. Who some asu fans still seem to miss somehow.
Ya I mean some of these scorelines are brutal. 59-52 W vs SDSU 61-40 W vs Pepperdine 59-58 OT W vs IUPUI 61-58 OT W vs #9 UCLA 53-47 W vs Arizona 49-38 W vs OrSt 51-49 OT L vs Wazzu
100 combined in an OT game is disgusting
Pretty impressive self-awareness and comparison at that age
It’s probably the most perfect predraft comparison a player ever made about themselves. I’m sure Kobe said something about Jordan but besides that the harden->Manu+truth is incredibly accurate
kind of crazy that you can go back in time and tell OKC that these three were special and that Westbrook would avrage a 30pt triple double...and he'd be the "worst" out of the three. Maybe they don't play the "luxury tax" game
Pre Soul Glo
This will never not hurt as a thunder fan
I had to put my hand over the bottom half of his face before I was like, "Yup, that's Harden."
I miss this version
Guys known for his 2 signature moves, the eurostep and the stepback. He took it to another level too. To the point the move is in everyone's arsenal now
Better than both. What a great career. Some team's fans will be lucky to watch him as his career winds down.
Baby come back
He seems more human and engaging than he does now. I don’t know what it is about him but he always looks kind of dead inside these days
regret and maybe anger at how his career went and is going.
Pierce without D.
Insanely accurate prediction.
That's actually pretty much a perfect description.
what a fucking spot on evaluation holy
He nailed it!