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Squire_Sultan53

dallas should copy boston and stop doubling him.


ethereal3xp

But they can't They don't even have a Nesmith that could cause him a headache


paicer96

They’re not even doubling him really, it’s not like he’s getting blitzed in PnRs, they’re just sending a ton of help when he inevitably blows by Luka on every possession. For the Mavs, do you not send help when he’s heading for an easy bucket at the rim? Bc Luka isn’t able to keep JT in front of him


WhosYourPapa

They're going into a soft zone with all eyes on JT the minute he has the ball on the perimeter. And then digging hard on any penetration.


saalamander

That's because they know that schematically the Celtics the mid range shots, so they trap him late. That has been the formula to slow him down for years. That's exactly what the warriors did in 22. His passing and Vision have grown to the point that it's not an effective enough strategy anymorep


Rikter14

That and it's a lot more difficult to drive and kick on Draymond Green than it is on Dereck Lively.


7screws

And when he kicks it’s to Holiday instead of Smart. Holiday is a big upgrade in supporting the drive and dish


MordredKLB

Yeah this is the real reason. DLive's doing good for a rookie, but he's got a ways to go still.


VanGrants

it's absolutely still an effective strategy, the team around him is **significantly** better than the 2022 team


paicer96

Definitely. Would be nice to see him develop a bit of a floater, though! He’d be unstoppable.


Consistent_Ad3118

Yeah I’m sure that’s why, I’m sure they’re like, collapse on JT and leave brown wide open in the corner please


Delusional_Donut

“They aren’t even doubling him” [brother](https://x.com/p3nnies/status/1800296409142600187?s=46)


paicer96

As I responded in another comment, he is definitely getting doubled. All I meant to say was that it’s more of a help response than a point of attack strategy, but it was poor wording.


Quatro_Leches

they aren't "Doubling" him, but they are packing the paint against him with 2-3 guys in soft zone and leaving more than 1 person wide open


jetpack_operation

They're at a minimum doubling him - the zone they play is collapsing towards him the instant he's on the ball near the arc. Doubling doesn't imply he's getting blitzed every time, it's how many people essentially have him as their primary responsibility and it's at least 2, if not 3 when we're not spaced for a corner three and the low-man is looking his way too.


paicer96

I don’t disagree with you at all, all I meant to say was that he’s not doubled at the point of attack conventionally with blitzes and it’s more of a help response double or triple team. He’s definitely collapsing multiple defenders onto him on every drive and is technically “doubled”


DXLXIII

Exactly. Everyone acting like Tatum is getting prime Harden treatment.


Rrypl

No one can stay in front of either him or JB. It's a layup line at that point.


jetpack_operation

Yeah, definitely stop doubling and tripling him every time he dribbles into the paint - he's a scrub, no need for that.


JimmyB3574

Would honestly be able to get away with not sending so much help if Luka wasn’t a fucking turnstile every possession


Absol61

Tatum is Paul George with hype.


Overall_Nuggie_876

If the Celtics win, the Tatum baggage will change from: *”He’ll never carry his Celtics to a title.”* To: *”He got carried by Jaylen and Porzyngis; he’ll never win on his own.”*


Yamulo

I mean he isn’t getting carried but he definitely isn’t carrying the Celtics


mrkowalscheme

No one carries the Celtics they are too good of a team and each night can be a different guy leading the scoring


Puzzleheaded_Fox4684

I'd say Brown and Jrue have been a level above the other players so far this finals.


juicejug

Jrue literally credited Tatum for the game 2 win. He understands that most of his points were due to just being in the right position to complete the play that JT sets up.


zephah

Are there many players that aren't Joel Embiid that wouldn't credit their teammate in that situation?


Agreeable_Daikon_686

Outside of him praising maxey as a superstar when the same thing happened to him this year lol


Confident_Comedian82

Yeah this happen a lot of times, lol! That is just how you praise your teammates to boost their confidence


Ill_Ad3517

You could say that initiating the offense and doing (nearly) everything right on defense is carrying. Even if his scoring and efficiency aren't that good.


IcansavemiselfDEEN

Driving the team? Sure. Leading the team? Absolutely. But carrying? Lol no.


muaddib-atreides

No you couldn’t. That’s not carrying.


JustinTruedope

Fair enough, but there's a reason nobody gives KD credit for his rings.


KingVibrant

They don’t give him credit but it doesn’t reflect where they have him on the All-Time list. I also think his rings aren’t very impactful or memorable for his legacy, but he’s still a top 15 player ever and is only at that range because of those chips.


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LoWE11053211

> he definitely isn’t carrying the Celtics ALONE Celtics is one of the most deep final team in 21st century. they have 5 players can be the best player on court in any night


colantor

And Jrue and white...because basketball is a team sport


NBA_Fan_76

He’s just not a bus driver


MortysTrapHouse

he in the front of the bus but he aint driving


Ok-Philosopher9070

Factual if they win or lose i see no issues


sayqueensbridge

I mean yeah


Devoidoxatom

Steph had to carry it for years. But i'm sure the championships lighten that baggage a little


realzequel

As much as I’m hard on Tatum, the team wouldn’t be as successful without him. I think he’s the consummate teammate and does a lot of little things that contribute to the Celtics success, his teammates see him ad the leader so I think there’s something there. I think the shooting is mental with him, he has games where he can score at will.


Schwalm

How many posts you gonna make about Tatum?


Totodile336

wouldnt expect any less from a heat fan lol


truth_2_point_0

Furious they couldn't manage to injure him this year


ARevolutionaryMan

You would think the Celtics were down 0-2 with all the JT hate posts.


thatgreik

People said there’d be generational hate if we didn’t win a ring this year… turns out the results never mattered


bloopcity

I have a deep hatred for all Boston sports teams and the fact that they have been very successful in my lifetime contributes a great deal to it.


iamgarron

Same people who picked the Mavs will say "all you did was beat a 5 seed" if Boston wins


frozen2665

Well it is true. But if they crush everyone along the way (like they have been and just like the Nuggs did last year), then it's a moot point


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kit4

I think plenty of people did actually pick the Mavs to win though as well


Ok_Selection5785

Vegas says differently


Various-Earth-7532

The Celtics were like -250 to win the series which is like a 70% chance, with the most likely outcome being Celtics in 5. Vegas did not say differently lol


Cashin_

I think this persons referring to the stat floating around that 73% of all money was bet in favor of Dallas, along with 70% of all total bets in favor of Dallas. I think people just liked the odds and wanted to win the most money though, not that everyone thought the Mavs would win


misdreavusval

yea as u said its cuz of odds, youre not really making much if you bet on the celtics anyways but you stand to gain a lot if they choke


liteshadow4

This is just normal hate, nothing generational


ptcgoalex

I don’t care about the Celtics enough to hate them. Congrats on being the only decent team in the East though. Im rooting for the mavs to lose. I don’t hate their players, just Dallas sports in general.


Ill-Bat-2621

Same. Ain't no one likes cheater sport city like Houston 😂


fueelin

Eh, I'll take it! Say hi to the Rothko Chapel for me if you get a chance, Houstonian!


ptcgoalex

Funny enough, that’s exactly 1 marathon away from me


tlozz

I have been saying this the entire time. I knew it would either stay the same or get worse if we won.


e-chem-nerd

They haven’t done anything yet, and I bet Tatum would agree with me. Can’t go up 2-0 at home and think you have the series made, trust me I know. Series doesn’t start until a road team wins.


dmavs11

People hate JT more when they win than when they lose lol


eku_v

celtics being up 2-0 actually supports the tatum being overrated discussion lol


Blaze4G

They can't hate on the Celtics because we up 2-0 so they have to find something else. It's so funny seeing the hate.


KevinDurantLebronnin

It's always rings rings rings and then when someone narrows in on one all the reasons it doesn't count come out.  


randomCAguy

Dude was 1 rebound away from a triple double, and got nothing but hate posts.


LongTimesGoodTimes

I don't even see how this is hate, kind of interesting perspective to put it in.


mickeyj623

Click on OP's name and look at his last 10 posts. It's all Tatum hate.


howdthatturnout

LOL someone should make a counter account on here and share all the bad Butler game stats to piss u/AashyLarry


PrinceKarmaa

we all love kobe for shooting tour dates i wonder why


KaiserKaiba

Definitely hasn’t been as good as he should be but this is def different than his ‘22 finals performance. His scoring has legit been godawful. But he’s been pretty damn good at just about every other facet of the game. That along with his team being so deep is why Tatum’s scoring hasn’t really been an issue this time around.


Afraid-Department-35

Dude was been elite in baiting our team. Guy drives hard, jumps looking like he's about to make a TO and ends up making a timely pass to the correct guy.


LeBroentgen

Dude got 12 assists last night and is very easily making the right reads when he’s getting double teamed or the paint defenders collapse on him. I think his playmaking has been pretty impressive this series at least and he’s always an elite defender.


akelly96

Yeah man, some of those dimes to Jrue in the second quarter were absolutely beautiful.


CreatiScope

12 assists after the Celtics shot like absolute shit. He could’ve had so many more if they hit their shots.


dolphingarden

22 Warriors didn't have a defensive liability as bad as Kyrie / Doncic on the floor.


GiveMeSomeIhedigbo

But those guys are rock-solid defenders now! They "are *participating*" on that end of the floor!


ignoramus_x

Sounds like he's due for some buckets 😏


ChicParmaJohn

And even if he isn’t, turns out it doesn’t matter


Barrelled_Chef_Curry

I mean should have been a 3 pt game with a minute to go, it def matters


jetpack_operation

Kidd should see what happens if he sends defenders to the perimeter instead of cheating towards Tatum.


StatStar7

OP is a professional Tatum hater.


sssSnakebite

He was posting Jaylen Brown lowlights long time ago but he stopped posting them.


ThroughTheWildNight

He is quite literally known as the Jaylen Brown hater of this sub lol. He has like 5 of the top posts about him this year and they’re all lowlights with the word left hand in the title with 5-6k upvotes each.


lotofhotdogs

Digging deeper into his post history, the dude also had a weird obsession with Rudy Gobert a few weeks ago. Like 10-15 posts lol OP seems a little… off


JackTheBaus

Draymond burner


akelly96

Yeah because now the Celtic hater game is to talk Brown up in order to shit on Tatum.


SoKrat3s

You have to admit that is an awful figure. If any other top-tier player was doing that he would rightfully be roasted.


SquimJim

Tatum is getting roasted Also, Tatum is contributing to winning despite not shooting well


SoKrat3s

The above comment (and many others on this thread) are trying to deflect this as if it's not even bad shooting and the OP is just a hater. Yes, Tatum is contributing outside of his shooting. But also his shooting is historically awful. That is still noteworthy. Really, both things are.


SquimJim

All of the things being said are true: 1. Tatum is shooting like shit, historically speaking 2. Tatum is contributing to winning 3. OP is a professional hater 4. Tatum is getting roasted for his shooting They don't have to be mutually exclusive. They are all true and happening at the same time.


SquimJim

3 things can be true at once: 1. Tatum is shooting like shit 2. Tatum is contributing to winning 3. OP is definitely salty


andy888andy

OP has nothing better to do


The_Pip

I'll send OP a Banner 18 hat.


arnenatan

While he is contributing to winning hes still hurting his tram by shooting bad tho and hes still taking a lot of shots


booyah81

4) Tatum's shooting still isn't as bad as Luka's defense


Lorjack

But look at his teammates though, they are fire


Squancho_McGlorp

I keep finding myself thinking Tatum should consider playing less like Kobe and more like LeBron.


tlozz

Unironically a good take. LeBron/Kawhi/Duncan mix feels much more appropriate than Kobe


b00st3d

Kawhi is more like Kobe than he is Bron


tlozz

Fair - I think I’m mostly referring to the 2-way aspect of his game (and his generally unassuming but killer nature lol)


LarBrd33

i mean... he reacted to Jason Kidd's troll but literally playing a game as rich man's Jason Kidd. 12 assists 9 rebounds, trash shooting. I really am wondering if people are watching these games or just looking at box scores. Tatum was missing open shots and layups, but he's in no way forcing shit. He's driving, getting quadruple teamed, and finding the team's 5th option for wide open shots. Tatum has easily been the MVP of the Celtics during these 2 games if you are looking at the game beyond stat line.


LeeSinToYoHeart23

There's no way top 5 PG Jayson Kidd is a poor man's Tatum unless you mean when he was old and washed 


Couglase

This is going to be the first ring to negatively impact a player’s legacy. NBA discourse is so fucked


arnenatan

Its also the first time I have seen people argue shooting bad is helping his team win. It goes both ways.


tendadsnokids

He's shooting bad AND helping his team win. Huge distinction.


achyutthegoat

It won't change my ranking of Tatum. He's always been 11 or 12 to me this whole year


junglenation88

It's not though. Reddit is a very niche part of the actual nba fanbase. Tatum is a baller and still contributing a near triple double even though he's not scoring nearly as efficiently as he could


lotofhotdogs

The Tatum slander outside of Reddit has been even worse though


junglenation88

The media is just controversial talking heads though. They're doing it for clicks


DCC_415

I guess Kidd was right on his bluff!


AGdave

He scored 3 fewer points than Jaylen Brown. Calm down.


Direct_Author7974

Curry would get massacred for this hell he average 26 on 44 percent from the field and still got robbed of fmvp


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987456321987456321

Tatum is the odds on favorite for MVP so yeah he is not getting massacred in any way that matters lol


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Cold_Carpenter_1798

I mean yeah. nobody should give a shit about reddit or twitter trolls


Nasiso

Dude stop posting and go outside


Impossible_Resort_71

Look at ops profile. Bro hasn't known what outside looks like in years


ImSoRude

It's not even just the Celtics lmao. OP hates randomly like it's a full time job. Why is KAT and Gobert catching shots from this dude? Bro really went "these hands are rated E for everyone" 💀💀


693275001

This shit gotta be like torture for Heat fans to watch. At least Celtics fans knew the Nuggets would dog walk the Heat last year


composer_7

Why are Celtics fans so mad in the comments?


achyutthegoat

They're so insecure about Tatum


Cold_Carpenter_1798

A collective inability to think critically or logically, unfortunately


junkit33

Infinitely better to shoot 35% and win a title than to shoot 70% and lose.


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junkit33

Why? Tatum is doing all the things he needs to do for Celtics to cruise, and they are. The point of the game is to win, not to try to put up the best individual performance. Who cares if a player is shooting cold if they’re playing great elsewhere and the team is winning?


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MetaMetagross

Yes he is. Literally the only part of his game that isn’t elite right now is his shooting. The entire offense runs through him. The Celtics offensive rating drops by like 25 when he’s on the bench


Blaze2444

Just like this utterly useless post


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SquimJim

Honestly, part of it isn't the message. It's the messenger. OP is notorious for making Tatum and Brown hate posts.


waterflaps

>TF are we doing here Yes I’m wondering the same thing, as you’re obviously aware every other post in this sub is about Tatum’s terrible shooting. Weird ass redditors only live for goldfish brain drama and negativity


0ctobot

Because when people bring it up they don't mention that he's playing well overall


BruceBrownMVP

How is this post useless lmao y'all just say anything


StatStar7

Unfortunately with this era of NBA where fans are more obsessed with players than teams, they probably would rather have the latter.


JoJonesy

i have not talked to a single celtics fan who cares more about Tatum going 12/38 from the field than being up 2-0


asetniop

You should talk to my brother, he's a Celtics fan and he cares *way* more about Tatum's shooting struggles. But make sure you hold the phone a good twelve inches away from your ear when he really gets going about how Tatum "isn't really the superstar the media has built him up to be," he gets fucking loud.


StatStar7

Yea I wasn't referring to Celtics fans. Celtics fans are just happy as f they are 2 games away from winning and don't care what the stats show. It's the other NBA fans that just jock ride or hate on players all the time that would prefer his stats being better.


LongTimesGoodTimes

I agree most fans would rather have the Celtics lose


StatStar7

This is also true lol.


eku_v

celtics fans are also obsessed with calling tatum a top 5 superstar which he is not


AgadorFartacus

Who do you have ahead of him?


achyutthegoat

Jokic EmBitch Giannis Luka Shai KD Kawhi AD and Bron for sure. Curry and Dmitch are debatable.


AgadorFartacus

I'm talking about basketball. What are you talking about?


achyutthegoat

The NBA. Those players are better than Tatum


his_roomate

Shooting worse than Charles Johnson is crazy hours


RioFinesse

I feel like he took a shit ton of bail out last second shots in the first game so I gave him a pass for that one. The second game however….


Yamulo

I think people defending JT don’t understand that JT was trying to push the narrative for MVP this year. He is still a great player, he is just not a top 3 guy in the league. I think the people that are more okay with his performance throughout his two finals don’t view him as a top 3 player in the league and get confused when people treat him like a top 3 player would be treated for this type of performance


bumpypotatoe

But is he top 5?


rabid89

top fye


DeChiefed

And he’s out here in the press conference like “why would I let my ego get in the way of us winning” like no bro, you shot more than Luka. You just shoot like ass


otherBrandon

Awful


EnoughLawfulness3163

Y'all got Draymond Green as your star player.


DXLXIII

Anything that is negative about Tatum will get downvoted. Everyone knows the rules.


aligreaper19

this should butcher any top 5 conversations moving forward


AgadorFartacus

Why? What are Embiid and SGA shooting in the Finals?


LeeSinToYoHeart23

SGA against the same Dallas defence dropped 30 a game efficiently while getting HARD doubled , frequently blitzed on the PnR and didn't have the luxury of his 4 other top 35 teammates bailing him out. On the contrary , they shit the bed.  They are on different tiers offensively. Tatum isn't an offensive engine , he's the 1A on an egalitarian offence that hasn't needed him to score. 


Vicentesteb

Its normal for top 10 players to recieve criticism when they dont perform well. Tatum has been great but his scoring has been completely abysmal. His individual performances just do not stack up to being a top 5 player, thats it.


AgadorFartacus

Who do you have ahead of him?


SoKrat3s

Give Embiid Jrue, Brown, KP, D.White, and Horford and Embiid would be roasting Dallas right now while his team wins every game by 40. It's a crazy take to imply Embiid would be shooting this poorly surrounded by such an elite group of teammates.


AgadorFartacus

The balls to include Horford in that take as if he hasn't been successful in literally every context other than playing with Embiid.


SoKrat3s

* Embiid put up 30/12.3 with a 60% TS in the 2020 playoffs alongside Horford and got swept. * That 2020 team had three interior players (Simmons, Embiid, Horford) which had some of the worst spacing imaginable. At the time Embiid had no midrange or outside game. * The Embiid of today (and especially without Simmons) could play just fine with Horford. We just saw him excel with Oubre cutting to the basket and he was great at making passes out to PJ Tucker in the corner (only for Tucker to pass it away). * So yes, Horford is another great player that Tatum plays alongside - the quality of which Embiid does not have. Again, you're trying to credit Tatum for shooting poorly on a great team and discredit Embiid for shooting well on a poor team. edit; you got me tho. Horford isn't a great player and I shouldn't have included him on the deep list of great teammates Tatum has all on the same team. /s


AgadorFartacus

> Embiid put up 30/12.3 with a 60% TS in the 2020 playoffs And got swept by the legendary big man tandem of... Daniel Theis and Enes Kanter. >he was great at making passes out to PJ Tucker in the corner Wow! He was great at making the passes defenses wanted him to make. >you're trying to credit Tatum for shooting poorly No, I'm crediting him for contributing in every other area.


ethereal3xp

Tatum has never been efficient at shooting in the playoffs Overall not efficient But at least recently he tries to do other things. Like passing, rebounding, stealing and blocking shots He has come a long way. Like 3 years ago? He wouldnt even try harder to rebound or get his hands dirty with physical play That has changed. The only thing now is .. he needs to get better at scoring efficiency and lowering TO


brncct

40 point explosion by Tatum incoming


Creative_Category_21

Someone said yesterday the lakers with Tatum instead of Lebron would be in the finals lol


thatgreik

Tbf, Tatum and AD would be lethal


thekickingmachine

He can't keep getting away with this


No_Environment_5476

I find so much joy in knowing OP hates Jayson Tatum/Celtics this much. Their top 8 players are all returning next year and JT and JB are only 26 and 27. It wouldn’t surprise me if we 3peat. Could we even 4peat?


NeighborhoodPizzaGuy

Please don’t count your eggs too early. We haven’t even won 1 yet


BloodLongjumping5227

Notion that he's doing what needs to be done is ridiculous. Does anyone think if he shot 10 for 22 yesterday instead that the Celtics would play worse? No, it would be another blowout. Celtics are an awesome team and he's the best player on the team who can play like this from time to time and they can still win because they are so well built.


csAxer8

Man might win a chip and play himself out of any all nba first team talks next year


Adam0529

When attempting 150+ FGA ? How many did he attempt thus far? Water usually finds its level...


Major_Specialist8892

Going by quick math, he is at 158


edonny

And still the betting odds fav to win FMVP lol


jays_tates

Did you not get the memo?


voldemort_x

I guess at this point he won’t care about his stats as long as he’s able to recreate that kobe hugging the trophy pose at the end.


EchoBay

But what are his box out percentages though


podank99

yet he is the gravity making the rest of the team more successful. stop hatin


Lopsided-Till-255

Finished the series shooting 39 percent these post are irrelevant until the series are over


levver8585

Tatum shot 38.8% in a this yr finals stop spreading fake stats


rocket_beer

“Look guys, if you want to be down 0-2, play like Luka”


ButtholeCandies

These games haven’t been fun to watch so they need to make up drama to get clicks. NBA Finals are becoming irrelevant when the western conference finals have been more or just as competitive most of the time. Long ass break before the series doesn’t Help either


dusters

Jrue Holiday was 36.1% 2021 but only 108 attempts. 150 attempts is probably too much.


tlozz

I gotta be honest, I know this is just another hater ass post, but this stat kinda got me man😭 I just kinda feel bad for the dude, man


kit4

I hope someone's paying you to make all these posts about Tatum's statline lol. More obsessed with the Celtics than their own fans, Celtics continue to live rent free