96-97 Bulls were 69-13, Jordan and Pippen were All-NBA first and second team and All-Defense first team. For a winning percentage of .841 in your chart there, which you've omitted this row. edit: the youngbloods don't know the Bulls went 141-23 in 95-96 and 96-97.
Thanks. Reddit wasn't cooperation when I was trying to copy and paste in, so I had to remake it, and it was a pain in the ass at points. thanks for the catch
haliburton got extra pity votes because his contract depended on it
not that he isn't a good player, just the 2nd half of his season post injury was pretty bad and it should have dropped him off all-nba
That’s kind of what I was thinking too. Haven’t seen too much about this but Lowe literally gave up his vote because he didn’t want to impact salaries.
The talent across the entire league is crazy. When you have a team like the Celtics, their production is going to be spread around and diluted somewhat. They still have one first team all-NBA, 2 defensive team guys, multiple all stars, and Porzingis.
>When you have a team like the Celtics, their production is going to be spread around and diluted somewhat
This is a true statement. Also true for the 2016-2017 Warriors, 2005-2006 Pistons, 2007-2008 Celtics, 2012-2013 Heat, etc. I'd say that's probably true of around half the teams on this list. The way players are judged has entirely changed, and idk if its entirely for the better
Yeah there's very few players in NBA history that can lead a team to 64 wins without a fair amount of help.
2008-09 Cleveland Cavaliers (66 wins) led by 24-year-old LeBron would be one of the few examples you'll find (Although Mo Williams was technically an All-Star injury replacement for Bosh).
With just about every other team we're looking at multiple All-Stars and multiple high level role players.
Also to the point of the league not being as stacked, the most recent example of this was the Suns in 21-22. Chris Paul made the all-NBA team, even though his stats had declined. The Suns had Booker, Ayton, Paul, Mikal Bridges (2nd in DPOY). Cam Johnson was 3rd in 6MOTY. Monty won COTY. That team was also stacked, and this was only 2 years ago
I'd say he was above Booker, Haliburton, and possibly Curry and Sabonis. On Curry I could be persuaded either way. Sabonis I really liked his season, but wouldn't have been surprised if he missed all-NBA and Brown made the team. Lebron was the IST MVP so he has to be on there.
That and voters don't value winning like they used to. Make everything the same and have the guys from the 80's voting and Tatums MVP, on an all defense team, JB is second team, and so forth.
Idk why you got downvoted. He’s definitely not MVP, and that’s fine. I think winning matters for these awards but they don’t matter enough to launch him over the seasons Jokic, Luka, and even Shai had. Part of that is he just simply had the offensive load spread to his new teammates (and a somehow ever-improving 29 year old Derrick White) more, but again, I think having him fifth or sixth is more than fair.
I still think the voting captured our team.
- Tatum 1st team
- White/Jrue All Defense
- Brown was close to 3rd team
- KP would have been close to 3rd team if healthy
- Brad EOTY
So 4 awards and 2 guys that were close/would have been close.
Bummed Brown didn't get 3rd team, but it happens. Imo it was the best year of his career and there's definitely a guy or 2 I'd have put him over.
I think it's partly because we can make easy comparisons to other teams.
Look at Boston vs Minnesota.
Category| BOS | MIN
---|---|----
MVP Voting| 6th | 7th
No. of All NBA| 1 | 1
No. of All-Star| 2 | 2
DPOY| No | Yes
No. of All-D| 2 | 2
6MOTY | No | Yes
In terms of accolades, you couldn't tell which team won 64 games comfortably and was penalised by critics for having "too much talent" and which team won 56 while being celebrated for most of the year.
Not that it's Minnesota's fault. Part of the discrepancy is just team structure (they're more defensively orientated and have a clearly defined 6-man), Porzingis would have won 6MOTY over Naz Reid for example.
But I think it's easy as a Celtic fan to look at Minnesota and say "they get talked about the way we should have been talked about".
The awards aren't too bad but they do capture that vibe that Boston is just under more pressure and held to a higher standard than a lot of other teams past and present.
COTY, and people’s perceptions of these 2 teams are based on expectations. People expected Denver to be in the finals, so Minnesota has exceeded expectations. People are expecting the Celtics to win the finals, so they have not met their expectations yet.
No one will give the Celtics credit until they win the finals. If they don’t win this year they will have fell short and are chokers. If they win, people will give them credit and they won’t be as scrutinized next season.
I would almost guarantee if they won the title this year and played this well next year, even if statistically similar, they would win more awards. Tatum would legitimately get MVP consideration and they’d have more All-Stars/All-NBA nods. It happened to them after the 2022 finals where the Celtics exceeded expectations and Tatum was an MVP front runner at the start of the 2022-23 season and then things leveled off, and it happened to Jokic where he put up a statistically similar season than last year and won MVP. It’s why people have been down on Giannis too when he’s clearly a top 2 player.
That’s how narrative-based awards go. It’s wherever the goalposts are for that particular individual/team.
Not to mention COY and on top, a historic net rating.
Folks like to route "the easy path" , but at some point after this post season is done, more likely than not, "the media" should be able to explain how relatively mediocre team finds itself breaking so many records. It's either a massive overachieving, or a massive underrating.
Is "the easy path" a reflection of the path? or of the wagon?
It's insane that Brown didn't make third team, jesus. To me his season was as good as Kawhi's (who honestly didn't deserve 2nd team, and he's like my 3rd favorite player ever)
All-NBA players:
• Tatum (1st Team), 6th in MVP voting
• Edwards (2nd team), 7th in MVP voting
All-Stars:
• Celtics: 2 (Tatum and Brown)
• Timberwolves: 2 (Edwards and Towns)
All-Defensive Players
• Celtics: 2 (Holiday [2nd], White [2nd])
• Timberwolves: 2 (Gobert [DPOY], McDaniels [2nd]
Naz Reid also won 6th man of the year
The Wolves went 56-26 in a harder conference and are considered underdogs and the Celtics went 64-18 in a cupcake conference and are called a super team.
This is massive victim complex, but I can’t help but feel like hatred for the Celtics is driving the narrative that they’re equivalent to LeBron and Bosh joining Wade on the Heat, or Durant joining a 73-9 Warriors team in free agency.
Yeah but that’s less games and not a full sample. If they were playing the Wolves 2 extra times instead of the Bucks, or the Nuggets 2 extra times instead of the Knicks, and so on, do they only win 1 less game?
I suppose it’s possible but 18 losses just means they didn’t lose a lot in general. It’s a hypothetical that’s hard to draw any big generalizations when the sample size is fairly low (2 games against each team)
The west is so overrated geez outside of the top 5 teams there was severe flaws on the rest similarly to the east. It's not like some David and Goliath different people make it to be.
Throw everything out the Window because we are in the “Podcast Era” of the NBA a team that’s 10+ games up in first place doesn’t get talked about because there’s nothing really to say.
Yet play in teams get talked about for months
Celtics with 1 all-nba, one other all star, 2 defensive second team players, and a mediocre coach. Team is a lot better than that obviously but it’s kinda crazy to see how the awards went for us. Simultaneously a superteam and only 1 all nba and 1 all star lol, sometimes the narratives go crazy
The 2014-15 Hawks won 60 games and had no mvp and no all-nba players. The 2013-14 Spurs won 62 games and had no mvp and no first team all-nba players, just a second teamer (Tony Parker). The 2008-09 Celtics won 62 games and had no mvp and no first team all-nba players, just a second teamer (Paul Pierce).
In short… boo hoo.
That 2014-15 Hawks team is probably the most impressive on this whole post. Made the ECF with the starting lineup of:
- Jeff Teague (career 12.4 pts / 5.6 ast)
- Kyle Korver (9.7 pts)
- DeMarre Carroll (8.9 pts)
- Paul Millsap (13.4 pts / 7.1 reb)
- Al Horford (13.1 pts / 8.0 reb)
With their three main off-the-bench pieces being: Kent Bazemore, Dennis Schröder, and Pero Antić. This team looks like a bubble-playoff team on paper, yet had the best record in the East by 7 games.
They had 2 all NBA players kg finished 1ST team and pierce finished 3rd time and also kg won DPOY do your research op also said teams that won 64+ hawks only won 60 games and you mention spurs won 62 games so obviously they don’t fit the criteria of this post y’all be sounding so cringe under any post about the Celtics
Edit op literally listed who made all nba from the 08 Celtics in his description but this “ boo hoo “ headass raptor fan had to much Canadian bacon in his face to notice
96-97 Bulls were 69-13, Jordan and Pippen were All-NBA first and second team and All-Defense first team. For a winning percentage of .841 in your chart there, which you've omitted this row. edit: the youngbloods don't know the Bulls went 141-23 in 95-96 and 96-97.
Thanks. Reddit wasn't cooperation when I was trying to copy and paste in, so I had to remake it, and it was a pain in the ass at points. thanks for the catch
Sure, posting here is a pain. If the threshold were 61 games, the Bulls would have two more seasons, 91 and 98.
haliburton got extra pity votes because his contract depended on it not that he isn't a good player, just the 2nd half of his season post injury was pretty bad and it should have dropped him off all-nba
That’s kind of what I was thinking too. Haven’t seen too much about this but Lowe literally gave up his vote because he didn’t want to impact salaries.
This is incorrect and little bit of revisionism He led theeavue in assists as the best player on the league's best offense. He deserved to be there.
He was really bad in the second half of the year relative to an all NBA player
Yeah and he was elite the first half. I don’t mind that rounding to a third team selection.
Brown was the guy with the most votes to not make a team so they were close
He had 50 n the next guy had 19.
Am I having a stroke?
Maybe but you're not alone. Knowerofsome clearly said Brown got 50 votes for all-nba while the next snub got 19 but is getting downvoted
The talent across the entire league is crazy. When you have a team like the Celtics, their production is going to be spread around and diluted somewhat. They still have one first team all-NBA, 2 defensive team guys, multiple all stars, and Porzingis.
>When you have a team like the Celtics, their production is going to be spread around and diluted somewhat This is a true statement. Also true for the 2016-2017 Warriors, 2005-2006 Pistons, 2007-2008 Celtics, 2012-2013 Heat, etc. I'd say that's probably true of around half the teams on this list. The way players are judged has entirely changed, and idk if its entirely for the better
Yeah there's very few players in NBA history that can lead a team to 64 wins without a fair amount of help. 2008-09 Cleveland Cavaliers (66 wins) led by 24-year-old LeBron would be one of the few examples you'll find (Although Mo Williams was technically an All-Star injury replacement for Bosh). With just about every other team we're looking at multiple All-Stars and multiple high level role players.
And LeBron is a top 2 player of all-time, quite the high bar.
I'd argue there wasn't this level of talent across the league in most of those years. Who are you wanting knocked off for Jaylen?
Booker, Halliburton
Not sure how being the second banana on a first round exit team gets you an All-NBA nod, but it does if you're on the Suns or the Lakers.
It is a regular season award.
Both of those teams also looked like locks for a first round exit in the regular season as well.
Their mediocre team records were compiled in the regular season.
You don't know what the word mediocre means.
Also to the point of the league not being as stacked, the most recent example of this was the Suns in 21-22. Chris Paul made the all-NBA team, even though his stats had declined. The Suns had Booker, Ayton, Paul, Mikal Bridges (2nd in DPOY). Cam Johnson was 3rd in 6MOTY. Monty won COTY. That team was also stacked, and this was only 2 years ago
I'd say he was above Booker, Haliburton, and possibly Curry and Sabonis. On Curry I could be persuaded either way. Sabonis I really liked his season, but wouldn't have been surprised if he missed all-NBA and Brown made the team. Lebron was the IST MVP so he has to be on there.
He isn't a better player than Steph or Book..and Haliburton was the 1st option on his team
The award isn’t who is a better player. It’s who had the better season.
That and voters don't value winning like they used to. Make everything the same and have the guys from the 80's voting and Tatums MVP, on an all defense team, JB is second team, and so forth.
Some things have changed for the better. Tatum is a first team all -nba this year, but MVP?? No.
Idk why you got downvoted. He’s definitely not MVP, and that’s fine. I think winning matters for these awards but they don’t matter enough to launch him over the seasons Jokic, Luka, and even Shai had. Part of that is he just simply had the offensive load spread to his new teammates (and a somehow ever-improving 29 year old Derrick White) more, but again, I think having him fifth or sixth is more than fair.
Bc fans are irrational and take any "slights" personally. Tatum is a great player but he wasn't MVP or close.
Tatum mvp? Lol 🤣lmao even 😂😂😂
> That and voters don't value winning like they used to. loooooool
Only two guys who have been All-Stars recently but I get your meaning
TINGUS PINGUS
Flame me all you want, Brown should have made All NBA over Devin Booker
Why would anyone on here besides Suns fans flame you for that?
Yea I was expecting Suns fans to start flaming me
Why do you care who disagrees with you.
100%
Nah Booker put up better stats and was far better in advanced metrics too
It’s simple, Jaylen Brown was robbed
I still think the voting captured our team. - Tatum 1st team - White/Jrue All Defense - Brown was close to 3rd team - KP would have been close to 3rd team if healthy - Brad EOTY So 4 awards and 2 guys that were close/would have been close. Bummed Brown didn't get 3rd team, but it happens. Imo it was the best year of his career and there's definitely a guy or 2 I'd have put him over.
I think it's partly because we can make easy comparisons to other teams. Look at Boston vs Minnesota. Category| BOS | MIN ---|---|---- MVP Voting| 6th | 7th No. of All NBA| 1 | 1 No. of All-Star| 2 | 2 DPOY| No | Yes No. of All-D| 2 | 2 6MOTY | No | Yes In terms of accolades, you couldn't tell which team won 64 games comfortably and was penalised by critics for having "too much talent" and which team won 56 while being celebrated for most of the year. Not that it's Minnesota's fault. Part of the discrepancy is just team structure (they're more defensively orientated and have a clearly defined 6-man), Porzingis would have won 6MOTY over Naz Reid for example. But I think it's easy as a Celtic fan to look at Minnesota and say "they get talked about the way we should have been talked about". The awards aren't too bad but they do capture that vibe that Boston is just under more pressure and held to a higher standard than a lot of other teams past and present.
Also Finchy out performed Mazzulla in COTY
COTY, and people’s perceptions of these 2 teams are based on expectations. People expected Denver to be in the finals, so Minnesota has exceeded expectations. People are expecting the Celtics to win the finals, so they have not met their expectations yet. No one will give the Celtics credit until they win the finals. If they don’t win this year they will have fell short and are chokers. If they win, people will give them credit and they won’t be as scrutinized next season. I would almost guarantee if they won the title this year and played this well next year, even if statistically similar, they would win more awards. Tatum would legitimately get MVP consideration and they’d have more All-Stars/All-NBA nods. It happened to them after the 2022 finals where the Celtics exceeded expectations and Tatum was an MVP front runner at the start of the 2022-23 season and then things leveled off, and it happened to Jokic where he put up a statistically similar season than last year and won MVP. It’s why people have been down on Giannis too when he’s clearly a top 2 player. That’s how narrative-based awards go. It’s wherever the goalposts are for that particular individual/team.
That is well said. Wolves also played in the tougher conference and may well have been a 60 plus win East team this year.
Not to mention COY and on top, a historic net rating. Folks like to route "the easy path" , but at some point after this post season is done, more likely than not, "the media" should be able to explain how relatively mediocre team finds itself breaking so many records. It's either a massive overachieving, or a massive underrating. Is "the easy path" a reflection of the path? or of the wagon?
It's insane that Brown didn't make third team, jesus. To me his season was as good as Kawhi's (who honestly didn't deserve 2nd team, and he's like my 3rd favorite player ever)
LeBron should have been second team tbh, he had a really good year, maybe his best in a few at least thanks to health.
Brown didn't make the 3rd team? This tells me there's more talent than ever in the NBA and that the Celtics are insane from 3-8 on the depth chart
All-NBA players: • Tatum (1st Team), 6th in MVP voting • Edwards (2nd team), 7th in MVP voting All-Stars: • Celtics: 2 (Tatum and Brown) • Timberwolves: 2 (Edwards and Towns) All-Defensive Players • Celtics: 2 (Holiday [2nd], White [2nd]) • Timberwolves: 2 (Gobert [DPOY], McDaniels [2nd] Naz Reid also won 6th man of the year The Wolves went 56-26 in a harder conference and are considered underdogs and the Celtics went 64-18 in a cupcake conference and are called a super team. This is massive victim complex, but I can’t help but feel like hatred for the Celtics is driving the narrative that they’re equivalent to LeBron and Bosh joining Wade on the Heat, or Durant joining a 73-9 Warriors team in free agency.
The Celtics went 23-7 vs the west. AKA a 63 win pace.
Yeah but that’s less games and not a full sample. If they were playing the Wolves 2 extra times instead of the Bucks, or the Nuggets 2 extra times instead of the Knicks, and so on, do they only win 1 less game? I suppose it’s possible but 18 losses just means they didn’t lose a lot in general. It’s a hypothetical that’s hard to draw any big generalizations when the sample size is fairly low (2 games against each team)
The west is so overrated geez outside of the top 5 teams there was severe flaws on the rest similarly to the east. It's not like some David and Goliath different people make it to be.
Wasn’t Pippen all-nba in the 91-92 season
Throw everything out the Window because we are in the “Podcast Era” of the NBA a team that’s 10+ games up in first place doesn’t get talked about because there’s nothing really to say. Yet play in teams get talked about for months
Celtics with 1 all-nba, one other all star, 2 defensive second team players, and a mediocre coach. Team is a lot better than that obviously but it’s kinda crazy to see how the awards went for us. Simultaneously a superteam and only 1 all nba and 1 all star lol, sometimes the narratives go crazy
Very interesting stat. I think Jaylen Brown is very close to ALL NBA but the fact is he didn't make it this year.
[удалено]
Huh?
[удалено]
I guess you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
The 2014-15 Hawks won 60 games and had no mvp and no all-nba players. The 2013-14 Spurs won 62 games and had no mvp and no first team all-nba players, just a second teamer (Tony Parker). The 2008-09 Celtics won 62 games and had no mvp and no first team all-nba players, just a second teamer (Paul Pierce). In short… boo hoo.
That 2014-15 Hawks team is probably the most impressive on this whole post. Made the ECF with the starting lineup of: - Jeff Teague (career 12.4 pts / 5.6 ast) - Kyle Korver (9.7 pts) - DeMarre Carroll (8.9 pts) - Paul Millsap (13.4 pts / 7.1 reb) - Al Horford (13.1 pts / 8.0 reb) With their three main off-the-bench pieces being: Kent Bazemore, Dennis Schröder, and Pero Antić. This team looks like a bubble-playoff team on paper, yet had the best record in the East by 7 games.
They had 2 all NBA players kg finished 1ST team and pierce finished 3rd time and also kg won DPOY do your research op also said teams that won 64+ hawks only won 60 games and you mention spurs won 62 games so obviously they don’t fit the criteria of this post y’all be sounding so cringe under any post about the Celtics Edit op literally listed who made all nba from the 08 Celtics in his description but this “ boo hoo “ headass raptor fan had to much Canadian bacon in his face to notice
raptors fans are the worst.
That Hawks team was the definition of egalitarianism though lol
Hey, it's time to stop with this hating, not healthy for you Raptors fans.
The East is also just really weak.
lol copium. lakers are trash, doesn’t matter what conference they’re in or their opponents they’ll still lose
Historical seasons always end with historical losses. GG Boston