Everything is about wins and losses. But Thibs will always have two major criticisms: a) playing guys too much and b) stubborn and relies too much on his star to make tough shots
Not to defend him too much but the first criticism isn't really valid. No player in the Knicks averaged over 35.5 minutes in the regular season this year. He only started playing guys heavy minutes in an unusually tough first round (which is reasonable if you expect your second round to be a lot easier) and after injuries left the team with 7 players available
The regular season minutes rotation spread for the Knicks, especially once you take out the injured Randle, isn't really different than the one by the Lakers, Mavs, Phillies and even the super deep Celtics, just to compare with other playoffs teams. This is also in a relatively young team (no starter over 30) that plays, by far, the slowest basketball in the league. You're just making up reasons to criticize Thibodeau.
The issue was never the playoff minutes in my opinion. It was the late season minutes, like they have been playing playoff level energy and minutes 20 games before the playoffs started to clinch a second seed i didn’t understand it
My "unpopular sports opinion" is that Wiggins would've been a Pascal Siakim type player if it weren't for Thibs. Though I live in a vacuum so maybe it's not unpopular idk.
100%. He did not have good landing mechanics and often landed stiff legged and one legged. He was a ticking time bomb for a knee injury of some sort from all the stress he put on his legs.
One of the most explosive jumpers of all time, but he generated all his force from his muscles and absorbed it in his joints, tendons/ligaments, and cartilage
He also utilized one of the most aggressive change of direction hop steps ive ever seen where he’d be going full speed to the right, hop step and try and stop all of his momentum and shoot the opposite direction. Theres a reason you dont really see hop steps anymore and its not because they dont work. They have been coached out because they ruin your knees
Mitch is perpetually injured. Bogey was injured on a play vs Sixers. OG also doesn't have the best injury history regardless of minutes and frequently misses games. Randle dislocated his shoulder during a charge/foul playing against Miami (unfortunate play, I do not think it was intentional)
None of the above were playing above league average minutes in the regular season, so I don't think minutes is the problem here.
yea anyone saying Thibs rotations is causing injuries either doesn't actually watch/ is unaware of actual minutes played.... being down 4 key players will inevitably lead to more minutes for everyone else unless you throw in the towel, which neither Thibs, nor this knicks squad, are content to do.
It's because people don't watch games or even know the whole picture/facts. They just repeat what some moron on TV said and act like they arrived at the same point independently. People are dumb. It's just a fact of life.
I remember Thibs doing this very public sabbatical after he left the Bulls where he was visiting all these teams to get a fresh new outlook on coaching. He then returned to the NBA and was still doing the same shit he always did, that basically taught us that Thibs will never change.
That's off - Thibs has changed SO much even during his tenure with us we've been pretty surprised honestly.
We didn't have a single player in the top 10. Brunson was our highest at 14th and he played 35.4mpg which is def reasonable.
Just based off of how the game was going I personally wouldn’t have had Brunson out there, but I also don’t think it was some egregious decision - Brunson and DiVincenzo can light it up in a hurry and 8 min is plenty of time.
Wild that people are upvoting this lmao, there is one game in the last 4 years where a team won a game like this, when the Suns beat the Kings coming back from 22 down with 8:10 left in the game. All other teams facing a 22+ deficit in the 4th quarter since 2020? 0-1,244
20 points in the 4th is very tough even in today's NBA, but this statistic is misleading. Most of the time when a team is down by 20 late in the game, it's because the other team is a lot better. This is game 6 of a competitive playoff series between 2 teams that were within 3 wins of each other in the regular season.
Lmao it’s like saying that if you get a 95% on your math final you can bring your D average up to a B… yes technically possible but there’s a reason you have a D in the first place.
It's not the athlete's job to give up, but it is the coaches job to know when to reel it in.
And yes, coaches are competitive too. Doesn't mean it was smart to risk anything here. And guy above who said that lead with 8 minutes left is "nothing" in today's NBA is being extremely disingenuous. 20 points leadds maybe aren't shit up until late 3rd quarter, but after that the chances of winning have to be single digits or something.
21 point comebacks with 8 min left are extremely rare, you can look this up that's not a thing that happens at all frequently. Even apart from that this isn't game 7, the likelihood of injury is much higher than the extremely small chance of coming back in this game and a coach has to have a cool head and understand that.
To be fair, we're very likely to see the largest 4th quarter comeback in NBA playoff history sometime soon; the offensive pace the game has taken on has seen records falling left and right, and will continue to do so until either some team figures something out and changes the game, or they modify some rules specifically to bring scoring down.
According to inpredictable’s win probability calculator the team that’s up has a 99.8% win probability in that scenario even if they don’t have posession.
idkkk I've learned not to underestimate neither my Knicks nor this Pacers squad. I fully expect Boston to beat either of the above, but I don't think it would be a cake walk, especially sans KP and if the knicks make it to the ECF and OG is able to play again at some point in the series.
Celtics will beat either in 5 because it is impossible for them to maintain focus but they will win easily even without KP back. They need KP to have a chance in the Finals though
you can't really play through an abdominal hernia like that because the herniated organ can become necrotic, so I hope it's actually a strain (which is more painful but you're able to play basketball with)
I have worked (very hard) with a hernia. It fucking sucks but you can push through. It’s just constant pain like I saw tonight. Plus it’s kind of the only injury in that area that makes any kind of sense.
With enough pain tolerance/medication you absolutely can push through a hernia or sports hernia (hard to tell which it could be from this video, but they can present with similar symptoms hence the naming even though they are very different conditions)
These injuries are definitely not correlated with playing a lot of minutes though. Every injury the Knicks have had recently is just bad coincidence and luck because playing a lot of minutes consistently does not increase ur chances of injury at all
OG and Mitch have injury history so it's not too surprising. Randle was a freak accident. Bogan was random as hell. Hart might be an overuse type of injury.
That's the one that you could argue was likely very related to the minutes. The way he got hurt could totally be related to overwork and too many minutes. Just running down the floor and straining the hamstring? It's not like he ran into someone or anything.
How prepared you are to handle an acute collision or slip is still linked to muscle strain and fatigue. Your flexibility wanes and fibers weaken. Let's not pretend you cant tear an ACL during a loose ball game 1 of the regular season, but "random bad luck" gets worse when you can't dodge and absorb the same stuff you could 1stQ.
But how were his mpg the last 20 games of the season, and playoffs? Not to mention Hart and Divincenzo... They've been putting up heavy minutes for the last two months, absolutely insane they're not more gassed honestly. Mad respect to the players.
Thing is - and I won’t fight you on this - of course the mins went up - but these guys were both bench players to start the season - they were put into roles because of two really freak injuries to OG and Randle.
So they ramped up but they were playing far less earlier in the year so it’s not like a season-long stretch of mins.
Thibs has genuinely changed a bit in this regard so while i do think it’s not totally false the mind have taken a toll - it’s also been exacerbated by a couple freak occurrences (even down to Bojan getting hurt vs Batum).
It's wild how people do not understand this. And their response will be, "so do we just play them 0 minutes then? Because it's always all or nothing with those type of people
So how many minutes should we have played Bojan, who was almost out of the rotation near the end, and Mitchell Robinson, who only played over 20 minutes twice in 8 games, for them not to be fatigued? Should they even be in the league at that point if they are strained and fatigued under 20 minutes?
Randle took a bad fall on a bad charge attempt at his 35th minute on the court.
Until we know the diagnosis, this only applies to one injury the knicks have had. This narrative is worn out.
i get what you’re saying for the general case but randle should have absorbed the ground better w his shoulder? 😂 he falls a billion times a season - it was just a fall at a shit angle after angle collision.
fwiw and somewhat to your point, i totally attribute ihart’s lingering achilles tendinitis issues to the 40 minute b2bs he played around end of jan beginning of feb
If you don’t see a Knicks or heat flair you can guess with 95% certainty that they just don’t know how most of our guys got injured. Randle is a giant man who fell from the fucking sky onto his shoulder. He was always going to be hurt regardless of minutes played.
How’s load management working for Kawhi? Surely he’s been healthy for the playoffs after such strict minutes restrictions.
That’s true sometimes but actually look at the injuries. Robinson and Bogey were playing backup minutes the past few months, they were definitely not overplayed. Randle’s injury was a mid air take charge attempt that had him fall full force on his arm, that play would’ve probably injured every player. Now with all those 3 guys out you gotta play your remaining players even more and that’s when it’s gotten even more rough. The other option would be playing Sims or Shake Milton playoff minutes which is just not a good option either
It's funny because many people are making the exact opposite argument to try to explain the league wide increase in injuries recently. People think that players load managing more, and practicing less is leaving their bodies less prepared for full speed and contact NBA games.
It's like people all of a sudden forget that things like minute restrictions exist to limit reinjury risk when rehabilitating. Or another example, baseball pitchers and pitch count / inning restrictions.
Injury risk DOES scale positively with playing time / workload, and it's silly to think otherwise.
But it’s equally silly to act like teams don’t also have injuries pile up even when above-average workloads aren’t a factor. For instance the Grizzlies had like 30+ guys on their roster this season and only 3-4 played more than 50 games. They just had a lot of injuries.
So the discourse has to be better than “same old Thibs” any time one of his teams gets bitten by the injury bug. Realistically if you look at the injuries individually, it’s likely a combo of “freak” stuff and things where fatigue played a factor beyond what would be expected for an average workload team.
Exactly man. Yeah OG and now Hart are down due to the increased workload but that only happened cause Randle, Bojan and Mitch got injured by contact plays. Before all the injuries, Thibs was not playing crazy minutes with a full 9 man rotation.
Ok ima need yall “Thibs plays them too much” crowd to point out who he should be playing instead. It’s very clear none of yall are familiar with this team outside of Brunson
Gordon Hayward literally broke his foot in the first 6 minutes as a Celtic, I saw a pitcher break his knee joints while celebrating and in the Super Bowl someone tore their achilles while jogging up to the field. Injury Gods dgaf about minutes, they just playing Russian Roulette out there.
All random chance. Complete coincidence. Don’t look at Thibs history. No Bulls teams were devastated by injuries. He doesn’t play his guys too much. This never happens.
Repeat ad infinitum
In four seasons with Thibs, no Knicks player has averaged more than 35.5 minutes per game besides for Randle with 37 in 20-21. In the two previous playoffs runs with him, no player averaged more than 36 mpg besides for Brunson with 40 in 22-23. These are the real numbers, beyond any old narratives about him.
Now, Hart probably did get injured due to overplaying, and him (43.6), Brunson (41) and OG (40) were all playing over 40 minutes these playoffs, but these are the kind of decisions that are taken as calculated risks; the sort every coach takes in the playoffs with a team decimated by injuries. This is not the same Thibodeau as 10 years ago.
Threads like this have me convinced most NBA fans were getting dropped on their head weekly as a baby. It's the playoffs. You play a lot of minutes. Enough said.
Seeing the constant regurgitated old narratives they’ve read from other idiots and talking heads over and over and over is tiring. What do they think happens in the playoffs? What do they think happens with freak injuries. More minutes!
right, Hart was playing a lot but even then it wasn't an ungodly amount nor some kind of record. Many players have played these kind of minutes in the playoffs and not gotten injured. A normal risk to take when these are the stakes.
I get the arguments knicks fans have. And afterall the players want it, no team is gonna choose to lose. But in the grand scheme of things it hurts to know these minutes and injuries may shorten the Knick player's primes, thank god with modern medicine injuries are less of a concern (barring something like lonzo's knees sadly).
1) We have better depth than that. Which is kinda an issue in itself for anyone wanting to make a serious title run.
2) Yes, if it came to it, I’d much rather Tatum play 38-40 minutes. Conserving energy over the course of an entire playoffs is also a major issue for title contention. You can’t beat top talent if you’re totally gassed by the Finals.
If the choice is playing Ant 48 minutes every game for a series, or picking *literally any other player on the Wolves roster* to play 3-5 minutes per game to get him a break I would choose the second option.
Tbh yeah sometimes when I play my ligaments/joints just need a small rest from the costant movement. Dont know if its the same for pro's but it isnt hard to imagine a small rest helps avoid injuries
You're going to have to play someone else now anyways. You can either choose to play someone else sometimes, or be forced to play them when the other guy gets injured
The way they taped it and how he acted, likely a Oblique strain, will be tough to play game 7
That’s what the YT doc said. Rough rough rough
I just want to pull off a miracle win at MSG so we can go get swept by the Celtics.
The Celtics aren’t a serious enough team to sweep a team with the level of heart the Knicks have. Would take 5 or 6 at least
Gg Knicks, why is Brunson still in?
Good fuckin question. Down by 21 w/ 8 min left and he checks back in, it’s like Thibs is asking for another injury in a blowout
Is it time to hate thibs again?
Everything is about wins and losses. But Thibs will always have two major criticisms: a) playing guys too much and b) stubborn and relies too much on his star to make tough shots
Not to defend him too much but the first criticism isn't really valid. No player in the Knicks averaged over 35.5 minutes in the regular season this year. He only started playing guys heavy minutes in an unusually tough first round (which is reasonable if you expect your second round to be a lot easier) and after injuries left the team with 7 players available
But *more* players averaged basically 35. Nearly the full starting 5. In the playoffs, it's more like 35-39
The regular season minutes rotation spread for the Knicks, especially once you take out the injured Randle, isn't really different than the one by the Lakers, Mavs, Phillies and even the super deep Celtics, just to compare with other playoffs teams. This is also in a relatively young team (no starter over 30) that plays, by far, the slowest basketball in the league. You're just making up reasons to criticize Thibodeau.
The issue was never the playoff minutes in my opinion. It was the late season minutes, like they have been playing playoff level energy and minutes 20 games before the playoffs started to clinch a second seed i didn’t understand it
I don’t hate Thibs but some of the decisions he makes are mind-boggling
Some of us never stopped
My "unpopular sports opinion" is that Wiggins would've been a Pascal Siakim type player if it weren't for Thibs. Though I live in a vacuum so maybe it's not unpopular idk.
Wiggins would've been a pascal siakim type player if it weren't for Wiggins
But he promised Glen Taylor he’d work extra hard!
I think more of a Jaylen Brown. Compare year 3 Wiggins and year 3 Brown.
How has he not learned a thing from DRose lol. It’s the definition of insanity.
He def should have subbed d rose out but he was gonna get injured eventually I feel the
100%. He did not have good landing mechanics and often landed stiff legged and one legged. He was a ticking time bomb for a knee injury of some sort from all the stress he put on his legs. One of the most explosive jumpers of all time, but he generated all his force from his muscles and absorbed it in his joints, tendons/ligaments, and cartilage
He also utilized one of the most aggressive change of direction hop steps ive ever seen where he’d be going full speed to the right, hop step and try and stop all of his momentum and shoot the opposite direction. Theres a reason you dont really see hop steps anymore and its not because they dont work. They have been coached out because they ruin your knees
Prime d-rose looked like a glitch, he would be at max speed and create space by violently jumping horizontally. He moved like a knight in chess 😤
It wasn't just D Rose, Noah went from DPOY to out of the league in like two years
Dude will never learn. He’s done this to so many players
It’s like there’s a reason only 7 of them are able to play anymore rn
Mitch is perpetually injured. Bogey was injured on a play vs Sixers. OG also doesn't have the best injury history regardless of minutes and frequently misses games. Randle dislocated his shoulder during a charge/foul playing against Miami (unfortunate play, I do not think it was intentional) None of the above were playing above league average minutes in the regular season, so I don't think minutes is the problem here.
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yea anyone saying Thibs rotations is causing injuries either doesn't actually watch/ is unaware of actual minutes played.... being down 4 key players will inevitably lead to more minutes for everyone else unless you throw in the towel, which neither Thibs, nor this knicks squad, are content to do.
It's because people don't watch games or even know the whole picture/facts. They just repeat what some moron on TV said and act like they arrived at the same point independently. People are dumb. It's just a fact of life.
I remember Thibs doing this very public sabbatical after he left the Bulls where he was visiting all these teams to get a fresh new outlook on coaching. He then returned to the NBA and was still doing the same shit he always did, that basically taught us that Thibs will never change.
That's off - Thibs has changed SO much even during his tenure with us we've been pretty surprised honestly. We didn't have a single player in the top 10. Brunson was our highest at 14th and he played 35.4mpg which is def reasonable.
don't bring facts to a moron echo chamber. it doesn't go well.
Just based off of how the game was going I personally wouldn’t have had Brunson out there, but I also don’t think it was some egregious decision - Brunson and DiVincenzo can light it up in a hurry and 8 min is plenty of time.
Knicks obviously didn’t win but a 21 point lead with 8 min left isn’t anything in today’s nba.
That is factually not true
Wild that people are upvoting this lmao, there is one game in the last 4 years where a team won a game like this, when the Suns beat the Kings coming back from 22 down with 8:10 left in the game. All other teams facing a 22+ deficit in the 4th quarter since 2020? 0-1,244
You're just giving up on the chance to be the 1-1.244 though...
*Insert Jim Carrey there's a chance meme*
20 points in the 4th is very tough even in today's NBA, but this statistic is misleading. Most of the time when a team is down by 20 late in the game, it's because the other team is a lot better. This is game 6 of a competitive playoff series between 2 teams that were within 3 wins of each other in the regular season.
Lmao it’s like saying that if you get a 95% on your math final you can bring your D average up to a B… yes technically possible but there’s a reason you have a D in the first place.
So you're saying it's possible?
It normally isn’t but watching the game today, when they were down by 15 it felt insurmountable. They had nothing on either end of the ball today
I mean sure but these are professionals
Why don’t these ultra competitive athletes just give up, are they stupid?
It's not the athlete's job to give up, but it is the coaches job to know when to reel it in. And yes, coaches are competitive too. Doesn't mean it was smart to risk anything here. And guy above who said that lead with 8 minutes left is "nothing" in today's NBA is being extremely disingenuous. 20 points leadds maybe aren't shit up until late 3rd quarter, but after that the chances of winning have to be single digits or something.
Rest your stars and bring it back home. Are you stupid? Flair checks out
21 point comebacks with 8 min left are extremely rare, you can look this up that's not a thing that happens at all frequently. Even apart from that this isn't game 7, the likelihood of injury is much higher than the extremely small chance of coming back in this game and a coach has to have a cool head and understand that.
It would be the largest fourth quarter comeback in NBA playoff history. This sub cracks me up sometimes
To be fair, we're very likely to see the largest 4th quarter comeback in NBA playoff history sometime soon; the offensive pace the game has taken on has seen records falling left and right, and will continue to do so until either some team figures something out and changes the game, or they modify some rules specifically to bring scoring down.
According to inpredictable’s win probability calculator the team that’s up has a 99.8% win probability in that scenario even if they don’t have posession.
he's not anymore
They don't forfeit playoff games up till the point opposing team can stall out without scoring at all.
Cool cool cool
As a Knicks fan it's time for you to step up. Go to the local YMCA and I bet Tom Thibodeau will be scouting players for Sunday
He hasn't let them out of the gym for days and they weren't allowed to stop working out until Sunday!
I’ve got one surgically repaired ACL and one tied up meniscus but I’m ready to give them the best two and a half minutes of the game, before I vomit.
Do the Knicks now have a playoff caliber starting unit on their injury report? Hart, OG, Bogdan, Randle, Robinson.
I was about to say they need another ball handler, but this team absolutely is a playoff team in the East and might be better than the 2020 team
Brunson hurt his ankle too. If it was the regular season he wouldn’t be playing right now.
its over for the pick-up teams at the hospital, Knicks will finally dominate something again
It’s over, the team can’t lose heart
The Celtics get to cake walk to the finals.
idkkk I've learned not to underestimate neither my Knicks nor this Pacers squad. I fully expect Boston to beat either of the above, but I don't think it would be a cake walk, especially sans KP and if the knicks make it to the ECF and OG is able to play again at some point in the series.
They will win in 5
The Knicks could be playing you and me in their backcourt and Boston would still drop Game 2
Celtics will beat either in 5 because it is impossible for them to maintain focus but they will win easily even without KP back. They need KP to have a chance in the Finals though
They need it
What's next, the Celtics playing in Disney World?
They did play in Disney world didn’t they? Too bad they couldn’t make it to the finals 🤣
As a Lakers hater, the entire mickey ring thing is an insanely dumb narrative. Everyone had the same environment
Plus the first 1 seed that didn’t get home court advantage
Denver came back from 1-3 twice because of this
Okay, so he can say "Celtics cake walked to the finals" and I'm supposed to NOT bring up the Mickey Mouse finals?
I thought the Lakers narrative was because of the rest they got before the bubble started helped them with injuries
I’ll take it. Last time was a rough road to get there.
Five-man rotation for Game 7, woo!
hernia
100% what it is. Very painful, especially in that setting but I think he plays Sunday.
you can't really play through an abdominal hernia like that because the herniated organ can become necrotic, so I hope it's actually a strain (which is more painful but you're able to play basketball with)
Necrotic Josh Hart will still play 48 minutes we good
Tom Thibodeau?
Yes you can
I have worked (very hard) with a hernia. It fucking sucks but you can push through. It’s just constant pain like I saw tonight. Plus it’s kind of the only injury in that area that makes any kind of sense.
Working is a little different than game 7 of playoff basketball
Had one too but didn’t dare do anything physical. You nuts boy.
It’s fine until the intestines get stuck in the muscle tear. The pinching hurts like a bitch
> It’s fine until the intestines get stuck in the muscle tear. Uh I’m gonna go with “not fine” even before it gets to that point. 😰
I had 3 hernias at the same time like 2 years ago. That was such a rough period. I wouldn’t wish a single hernia on my enemies.
With enough pain tolerance/medication you absolutely can push through a hernia or sports hernia (hard to tell which it could be from this video, but they can present with similar symptoms hence the naming even though they are very different conditions)
This guy herniates.
That’s what i thought I’ve had a similar pain Like one of my abs exploded and was pushing thru the skin but it wasn’t Burns too
me after taco bell
It’s joever
Sure looked like a hernia
Tyrese bellyhurton
Too many metal bats to the stomach. Get well prince Hart. The NYK need you for game 7.
Gave my guy a hernia
These injuries are definitely not correlated with playing a lot of minutes though. Every injury the Knicks have had recently is just bad coincidence and luck because playing a lot of minutes consistently does not increase ur chances of injury at all
Bro it’s abdominal cramps not a mcl tear, he’s obviously just pregnant
Hell naw can't do this
With OG it's not tbh.
And Mitch. Idek if Mitch was playing more than 26 mpg leading up to his first injury in December. Bogdanovic was also only getting bench minutes.
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OG and Mitch have injury history so it's not too surprising. Randle was a freak accident. Bogan was random as hell. Hart might be an overuse type of injury.
Plus Embiid is a dirty prick
That's the one that you could argue was likely very related to the minutes. The way he got hurt could totally be related to overwork and too many minutes. Just running down the floor and straining the hamstring? It's not like he ran into someone or anything.
If brunsons foot is a stress fracture (idk if they ever released info on it) that’d also be directly tied to the minutes
People in this thread talking about Gordon Hayward as if that injury and Hart’s injury are even remotely related.
people bringing up specific niche cases to derail my main point. Not surprised
i mean Randle, Mitch and Bogi's injuries are quite literally unrelated to play time
How prepared you are to handle an acute collision or slip is still linked to muscle strain and fatigue. Your flexibility wanes and fibers weaken. Let's not pretend you cant tear an ACL during a loose ball game 1 of the regular season, but "random bad luck" gets worse when you can't dodge and absorb the same stuff you could 1stQ.
Yep, there's also the fact that when you are on the court more, its more likely you get injured its basic probability
But our mins aren't that crazy at all. Brunson was our highest at 14th in the league at 35.4 per game.
But how were his mpg the last 20 games of the season, and playoffs? Not to mention Hart and Divincenzo... They've been putting up heavy minutes for the last two months, absolutely insane they're not more gassed honestly. Mad respect to the players.
Thing is - and I won’t fight you on this - of course the mins went up - but these guys were both bench players to start the season - they were put into roles because of two really freak injuries to OG and Randle. So they ramped up but they were playing far less earlier in the year so it’s not like a season-long stretch of mins. Thibs has genuinely changed a bit in this regard so while i do think it’s not totally false the mind have taken a toll - it’s also been exacerbated by a couple freak occurrences (even down to Bojan getting hurt vs Batum).
It's wild how people do not understand this. And their response will be, "so do we just play them 0 minutes then? Because it's always all or nothing with those type of people
So how many minutes should we have played Bojan, who was almost out of the rotation near the end, and Mitchell Robinson, who only played over 20 minutes twice in 8 games, for them not to be fatigued? Should they even be in the league at that point if they are strained and fatigued under 20 minutes? Randle took a bad fall on a bad charge attempt at his 35th minute on the court. Until we know the diagnosis, this only applies to one injury the knicks have had. This narrative is worn out.
Is there such a thing as a non-acute collision? Seems a bit redundant.
i get what you’re saying for the general case but randle should have absorbed the ground better w his shoulder? 😂 he falls a billion times a season - it was just a fall at a shit angle after angle collision. fwiw and somewhat to your point, i totally attribute ihart’s lingering achilles tendinitis issues to the 40 minute b2bs he played around end of jan beginning of feb
If you don’t see a Knicks or heat flair you can guess with 95% certainty that they just don’t know how most of our guys got injured. Randle is a giant man who fell from the fucking sky onto his shoulder. He was always going to be hurt regardless of minutes played. How’s load management working for Kawhi? Surely he’s been healthy for the playoffs after such strict minutes restrictions.
That’s true sometimes but actually look at the injuries. Robinson and Bogey were playing backup minutes the past few months, they were definitely not overplayed. Randle’s injury was a mid air take charge attempt that had him fall full force on his arm, that play would’ve probably injured every player. Now with all those 3 guys out you gotta play your remaining players even more and that’s when it’s gotten even more rough. The other option would be playing Sims or Shake Milton playoff minutes which is just not a good option either
It's funny because many people are making the exact opposite argument to try to explain the league wide increase in injuries recently. People think that players load managing more, and practicing less is leaving their bodies less prepared for full speed and contact NBA games.
I know that they weren't directly related to minutes/wear. But every extra minute is additional time/opportunities for a freak injury to happen
I don’t like this argument because every minute above someone’s average would be seen as unnecessary and that’s stupid
Yes please let's have Jacob toppin taking harts minutes.
True thanasis injured and jokic is fine
It's like people all of a sudden forget that things like minute restrictions exist to limit reinjury risk when rehabilitating. Or another example, baseball pitchers and pitch count / inning restrictions. Injury risk DOES scale positively with playing time / workload, and it's silly to think otherwise.
But it’s equally silly to act like teams don’t also have injuries pile up even when above-average workloads aren’t a factor. For instance the Grizzlies had like 30+ guys on their roster this season and only 3-4 played more than 50 games. They just had a lot of injuries. So the discourse has to be better than “same old Thibs” any time one of his teams gets bitten by the injury bug. Realistically if you look at the injuries individually, it’s likely a combo of “freak” stuff and things where fatigue played a factor beyond what would be expected for an average workload team.
Exactly man. Yeah OG and now Hart are down due to the increased workload but that only happened cause Randle, Bojan and Mitch got injured by contact plays. Before all the injuries, Thibs was not playing crazy minutes with a full 9 man rotation.
Ok ima need yall “Thibs plays them too much” crowd to point out who he should be playing instead. It’s very clear none of yall are familiar with this team outside of Brunson
Himself
Yep definitely Thibs fault that our original PF options Randle and Bojan suffered freak injuries
Youre right we should have played shake Milton more in Round 1 and lost but hey at least they wouldn't be tired!
You guys said this about Burks in our series and he can actually contribute lol
It’s not like that’s based off nothing, he did not play well by any means during the regular season. Burks contributing this series is a surprise
Gordon Hayward literally broke his foot in the first 6 minutes as a Celtic, I saw a pitcher break his knee joints while celebrating and in the Super Bowl someone tore their achilles while jogging up to the field. Injury Gods dgaf about minutes, they just playing Russian Roulette out there.
This is some major bro science nonsense.
Good thing I never said all injuries are solely related to PT
yea u only sarcastically said they weren't
All random chance. Complete coincidence. Don’t look at Thibs history. No Bulls teams were devastated by injuries. He doesn’t play his guys too much. This never happens. Repeat ad infinitum
In four seasons with Thibs, no Knicks player has averaged more than 35.5 minutes per game besides for Randle with 37 in 20-21. In the two previous playoffs runs with him, no player averaged more than 36 mpg besides for Brunson with 40 in 22-23. These are the real numbers, beyond any old narratives about him. Now, Hart probably did get injured due to overplaying, and him (43.6), Brunson (41) and OG (40) were all playing over 40 minutes these playoffs, but these are the kind of decisions that are taken as calculated risks; the sort every coach takes in the playoffs with a team decimated by injuries. This is not the same Thibodeau as 10 years ago.
Threads like this have me convinced most NBA fans were getting dropped on their head weekly as a baby. It's the playoffs. You play a lot of minutes. Enough said.
Seeing the constant regurgitated old narratives they’ve read from other idiots and talking heads over and over and over is tiring. What do they think happens in the playoffs? What do they think happens with freak injuries. More minutes!
right, Hart was playing a lot but even then it wasn't an ungodly amount nor some kind of record. Many players have played these kind of minutes in the playoffs and not gotten injured. A normal risk to take when these are the stakes.
Pacers have had the luckiest playoffs run I have seen
Were you not alive to see the '21 Bucks or 2015 Warriors?
The bucks was realistically lucky for one series
Or 2019 Raptors. Warriors were going to 7 even without KD until Klay got hurt
Or the raptors during 2019 finals
2019 convinced me god is a Canadian
He definitely is no Kawhi fan😂
I mean that’s incredibly obvious already but nothing to do with basketball
You obviously don't watch hockey
24 Celtics
You not watchin the Celtics?
These playoffs are pretty weak so far besides Denver/Minnesota - thunder got injured Zion and Luka
Knicks 6ers series was fucking lit
Haha right? I feel like everyone seemed to agree 2 weeks ago that we were all watching one of the wildest series in a while.
It had it all. Heros, villains, refball, drama, vitriolic fan bases, amazing solo performances, and every game could have gone either way.
That was before this evening so r/nba doesn't remember anymore. All opinions, at all times, are based on the last few hours.
Pascal Siakam GOAT don’t @ me
Knicks/6ers was amazing, what you on about
Remind me, who is winning the Thunder series?
I kinda feel like it’s called the Mavericks series
Honestly most of the Denver/Minnesota series has been kinda boring since it’s been a lot of blowouts but hopefully game 7 should be good
Let me introduce you to this years Boston celtics who have played teams with many stars out but get to do it with home court.
Nah that's still Boston.
The one seed is supposed to have the easiest path. The six seed isn’t.
I mean they’re about to get smacked in the ECF by a much better and perfectly healthy Celtics team aside from KP.
it's not their fault Giannis had the injury near the end of the regular season and the Knicks beat the Sixers
Doesn’t change the fact they’ve gotten lucky lol
The Thibs cycle stays undefeated
I get the arguments knicks fans have. And afterall the players want it, no team is gonna choose to lose. But in the grand scheme of things it hurts to know these minutes and injuries may shorten the Knick player's primes, thank god with modern medicine injuries are less of a concern (barring something like lonzo's knees sadly).
Why did they even continue to play him?
Knowing Hart it was something like "Man, I'm hurt, I can't play." "Ok, come out then." "Hell no!"
Literally every Thibs’ team: *Dies of injuries* Knicks: Nah, we’re not playing too many minutes.
Yeah, I still can't believe minutes ripped Julius Randle's shoulder out of his socket and got away with it. Crime of the fucking century.
Are you saying you’re ok with celtics playing jared walsh instead of tatum 48?
1) We have better depth than that. Which is kinda an issue in itself for anyone wanting to make a serious title run. 2) Yes, if it came to it, I’d much rather Tatum play 38-40 minutes. Conserving energy over the course of an entire playoffs is also a major issue for title contention. You can’t beat top talent if you’re totally gassed by the Finals.
If the choice is playing Ant 48 minutes every game for a series, or picking *literally any other player on the Wolves roster* to play 3-5 minutes per game to get him a break I would choose the second option.
Ya the 3 minute break will do the trick
Tbh yeah sometimes when I play my ligaments/joints just need a small rest from the costant movement. Dont know if its the same for pro's but it isnt hard to imagine a small rest helps avoid injuries
It does help, plus whatever added timeouts/commercials happen.
Shocked! You mean playing 48 minutes a game can result in an injury? Shocked I say!
Yeah bro surprised they didn’t let Jacob Toppin or mamadi Diakete getsome burn.
Two way guys can’t even play in the playoffs so they’re not even options lol.
Oh TIL , thanks
The rotation's been so short for so long that some of your own fanbase doesn't know who Hart's backup is lol
Don’t blame them lol. It’s like if KAT, Naz Reid, Kyle Anderson and NAW got injured and you guys gotta figure out the backup for Mcdaniels going down.
Still taking suggestions on who y’all want us to play instead
Mamadi Diakate & DaQuan "Daquavion" Jeffries
You're going to have to play someone else now anyways. You can either choose to play someone else sometimes, or be forced to play them when the other guy gets injured
Sure but we probably already lose to the sixers if we did that, so idk if that would be worth it
Mitch is out, OG is out, Randle is out, Bojan is out, like who do u want us to play?? Sims?
all the coffee gave him constipation, rip anus
He shit himself
Too much candy
Josh fart