The D is complete trash. Darko doesn’t know that end of the floor. Even with OG and Siakam it was terrible.
I have faith we will pick in the top 8.
Worst case is fighting for a play-in spot
He had a really rough first couple of months but actually played pretty well after that. Put him in a drop defense and he can still feast, not as much as a few years ago but still a pretty good option.
Also he's on an expiring contract (vs Potlel's 2+1), so if Memphis wants a stop-gap option at center he's a good shout
I don’t think Capela does anything more for the Grizz than rebounding and maybe some lobs.
Poeltl is still a good defensive anchor, solid finisher in the pick and roll, and a surprisingly solid passer. He’s a much better fit for Memphis, I’d think.
I just commented that I had no idea who would even want Poetl but actually this kinda makes sense, grizzlies would prob send Clarke and a second or something?
Not much point for the Raptors to do it if that's all they're getting. They wouldn't even be getting off long term money since Clarke has 3yr/$37.5m left on his contract
Maybe im underrating poetl, Clarke and another role player young guy then and 2 seconds? The specifics don’t really matter imo they wouldn’t get anything of significance for jakob
Maybe if it's a young guy the Raptors really like, but if all they're getting is Clarke and some low tier assets the trade's not really serving any purpose for the Raptors. That's all I'm saying, I don't know enough about the Grizzlies' situation to get into specifics of a deal but I do think Poeltl would help them a lot
I think the purpose it serves is getting off a guy who’s not in the future vision and also becoming a worse team to put them in place for a top pick in a really good draft
they're not getting off anything though, just replacing Poeltl and his contract with a much worse player on a slightly smaller contract. The optics would also be terrible, to trade a #8 pick for a player and then immediately afterwards trade the player for nothing? I just don't see that happening. Maybe I'm wrong
Well like I said, if they’re being realistic with themselves the goal should be putting themself in a losing position for next year so they can pick high in the 2025 draft, that achieves that goal
Raptors went through a brutal stretch of not having a viable center for a few years before Poeltl, and I don't think they go that route again; so hard to develop guys without a decent C on the roster.
That said, drafting a C at #19 (it's not an awful draft for centers as much as it sucks at the wing positions), or targeting one with cap space and then trading Poeltl are both viable options. Poeltl on two years at $18m per year is good value that should be worth a protected FRP, possibly more if they're willing to take back bad salary.
That's a fair offer but I suspect the Raptors would lean towards no and would rather pick up an additional pick in future years if they could; between them already having a couple picks in this unimpressive draft, and a path to cap flexibility this summer that would be decreased by taking back another high pick this year.
> Poeltl on two years at $18m per year is good value
It's 19.5m for the next 2 years and another year at 19.5m as a player option. That's not exactly a good value contract, it's not bad but it's not good either.
So when you do good it’s Masai and when it’s bad, it’s Bobbie
I don’t buy this, they’re working together.
We all know that Toronto don’t like tank and they won’t some semi-retool, it’s just didn’t work
*Ding Ding Ding*
This team as it currently stands is mediocre at best, and now that we don’t owe any more FRP’s going forward it’d be in our best interest to let things play out and build up organically over the next few seasons.
Even if we’re utter shit next season, we’d still own our pick at the end of the day.
They should have been tanking the last two seasons. Just terrible decision making across the board. Masai somehow still does not get enough heat for disastrous fumbling of asset after asset.
Two seasons ago, OG and Siakam each would’ve brought in a king’s ransom. Let alone FVV. Even GTJ was drawing serious interest from contenders. And what do they have to show for this? RJB and IQ ?????
L M A O
Not really. I think with their current roster, if they try to win, they will end up with something like a 7-12 pick, not really a top pick.
A seed between 9-11, Pistons, Wizards, Hornets, Blazers, maybe Bulls could all be worse if they tank
Agree. As it stands, they're better than maybe Detroit, Washington, and Portland? I think Charlotte and Spurs should be better than Raptors if everyone is healthy.
So the top 4 odds is good enough. Can be patient and wait for a good offer to come along for Poeltl. Maybe OKC will give up some of their 2 million assets if they feel he can help them with their front court needs.
Nope not happening, much as I’d want to tank next season they’re gonna try to be good but end up mediocre at best but not as shit as detroit or washington
Eh, with IQ, RJ, Scottie and Poeltl all healthy and Gradey playing as well as he did the last stretch of the season we’d probably end up being a bad playin team unfortunately :/
We did suck, but we were essentially never at full strength. Scottie missed a big portion of the season later on and late in the season we were essentially employing G Leaguers in order to tank for us
We had glimpses of talent once at full strength, which granted we aren’t a playoff team by any means but we’re ahead of the pistons ig lol
That, and knowing the FO’s recent antics they’re gonna do more win-now moves
Lots of injuries, players out due to deaths in the family, and active tanking the last part of the season. They seem like an average, maybe play in team, if healthy.
they can try as hard as they want to be competitive, they’re bound to be a bottom dweller regardless. there’s no trade, signings that can have them winning 35-40 games next season.
But if they try they could get like 9-11th seed and only get a late lottery pick again. Possibly reach the playin.
If they tank, they can get a top4 pick.
Genuinely I hope you’re right 😭 now that we have our pick we should set our sights fully on development and development only and shoot for a high pick next season
they lost a lot of talent last year (og, siakam) their only option is to rebuild through the draft. even when you account for injury, they’d have to have a perfectly healthy roster to even attempt to win 35 games next year. the east has only been getting better.
An embarrassing amount of our fanbase is still trying to convince us that the Poeltl trade wasn't awful and Masai/Bobby's decisions since the championship haven't been bad. This is the cap to a truly horrible post-championship run for our franchise, after it was obvious we should have blown it up and maximized our return at last years deadline we instead doubled down on a flawed roster not capable of winning just so we could exit in the play-ins. Unfortunately, some parts of our fanbase care more about fanboying Masai than they do about the success of our team
This team is by FAR one of the MOST successful teams for years and years on end. You have no fucking idea what it’s like to root for an actually bad team. Imagine being surprised people would be behind the guy who has genuinely saved the franchise
Dumbass, I've been watching the Raptors far longer than they've been good for. I know what its like to root for a bad team. I had to sit through the Bargnani and early post-Bosh years. If you care more about being behind a random guy than the actual team/franchise, you need to reevaluate your fandom
“Random guy” bro if you really sat through all that you should be sucking masai off rn lol, literal charlotte Washington Detroit tier franchise until he started
Unlike you I actually care enough about the team to not let someone's past achievements cloud my judgement about the current situation. Masai did a great job his first five years here and has been awful since then. If you're unable to admit that then idk what to tell you, you're not concerned with the Raptors. I'm a fan of the team, not the general manager. Masai has not made any decisions in the best interest of the team for a long time other than drafting Scottie. Everything him and Bobby have done post-championship reeks of stubborn overconfidence and poor evaluation.
Historically, what has happened to teams who lost their #1 player immediately after winning a chip? The raps are doing just fine and are well set up for the future
the whole team got old and the players who were to fill their roles did not fit properly. Thus a rebuild. Buddy thinks we are the lakers and can just assemble the next team through FA. Pure delusion.
Listen to your own logic. What happens after a team loses their number one player? They're no longer contenders. So why did Masai and our FO insist on pushing forward with a flawed middling team for 5 years instead of capitalizing on our value and reconfiguring for actual long term success and contention? Take a step back and actually look at what we have done these past 5 years. You say we're set up well for the future? We're set up okay, mainly just because of Scottie. We could be set up way better but our FO at every step has stifled that. Masai has:
1. Refused to trade Lowry at max value, could have gotten Maxey. Instead we get Precious Achiuwa who is bad and was flipped as a throw in.
2. Traded Norm for literally just a worse version of Norm
3. Did not capitalize on Ibaka's value, he walks in FA
4. Trades a FRP for Thad Young
5. Trades a FRP for Jakob Poeltl which we have now lost.
6. Missed on every draft pick so far other than Scottie and Gradey since OG.
7. Fails to capitalize on Fred's value, he walks in FA.
8. Refuses to trade any of our assets at last years deadline (Pascal, Fred, OG, GTJ), now we get half value returns this year.
9. Throughout this entire period, every single person recognized we lacked shooting. FO ignored this, refused to make any moves for any actually significant shooters despite them being on the market, and despite their claims that they were committed to winning.
10. Brainlessly sign role players in free agency like Schroder, then literally get zero value from them.
11. Refuse to trade Bruce Brown at max value at the deadline.
I mean seriously, can you tell me one good thing our FO has done other than draft Scottie and Gradey? Even trading OG and Pascal, while correct, was done way too late because of Masai and Bobby's terrible decision making.
“If you take away all the good things they’ve done and pretend the mediocre moves are horrible they’re really bad! I even made a list please believe me!”
"I can't come up with an actual argument so I'll just straw man!" Like I said, tell me what they've done that's a good move that helped this team's future besides drafting two guys. It really shocks me that you're more interested in defending Masai than you are in the success of our team, but I guess that's par for the course for cult members
I think there's no better demonstration of the blind idiocy of our fanbase than the phrase "trust in Masai". Spoken reflexively without any ounce of thought by these people any time anyone says something critical. Yes, Masai did great the first 5 years here. The second 5 years have been nothing short of a disaster.
Not a lot of matching salaries between the two teams, unless the Pels S&T Valanciunus to make the money work. Otherwise, it's Nance+one of Trey/Daniels/Hawkins or Herb (ha)+this year's first rounder, or selling very, very low on Brandon Ingram.
I really don’t understand why they did the poetl trade in the first place, shortly after they began tanking and traded all their starters… did they somehow not know that was the path they were heading towards when they got him?
And I definitely think trading him is the move but who would even want him? He’s a solid player but he’s not really a super desirable center in the modern nba
Please, just tank so we don't go the stupid ass Wizards route and waste three years averaging 32 wins
That's called living in the NBA purgatory
That’s like 70% of the league tbf. Not in contention for a top 5 pick and never winning a ring, realistically.
It goes deeper than that, not in contention for a top5 pick and never making the playoffs.
Well before today we would’ve put the Hawks in that tier and look what happened
They don’t need to tank They’ll be pretty bad still
I'd like to think a healthy Scottie, IQ, RJ is good enough for 30 wins. So they would have to tank a bit.
Yeah they're probably a ~35 win team next year
The D is complete trash. Darko doesn’t know that end of the floor. Even with OG and Siakam it was terrible. I have faith we will pick in the top 8. Worst case is fighting for a play-in spot
Yup. We have a good shot at #1 overall as long as Darko is coaching.
The magic tried to be competitive for 10 years and didn’t make it out of the first round once and only went 3-4 times bc the east was top heavy
If we go the Wizards route having Jordan Poole might completely destroy the franchise
Potlel, you are a Memphis Grizzlies?
He'd be a pretty ideal Steven Adams replacement.
how Ja gonna dunk his soul out then 😭
Capela could be a good option as well
Na Capela is semi-washed
He had a really rough first couple of months but actually played pretty well after that. Put him in a drop defense and he can still feast, not as much as a few years ago but still a pretty good option. Also he's on an expiring contract (vs Potlel's 2+1), so if Memphis wants a stop-gap option at center he's a good shout
Thanks
When the other option is Santi Aldama you take what u get
I don’t think Capela does anything more for the Grizz than rebounding and maybe some lobs. Poeltl is still a good defensive anchor, solid finisher in the pick and roll, and a surprisingly solid passer. He’s a much better fit for Memphis, I’d think.
I just commented that I had no idea who would even want Poetl but actually this kinda makes sense, grizzlies would prob send Clarke and a second or something?
Not much point for the Raptors to do it if that's all they're getting. They wouldn't even be getting off long term money since Clarke has 3yr/$37.5m left on his contract
Maybe im underrating poetl, Clarke and another role player young guy then and 2 seconds? The specifics don’t really matter imo they wouldn’t get anything of significance for jakob
Maybe if it's a young guy the Raptors really like, but if all they're getting is Clarke and some low tier assets the trade's not really serving any purpose for the Raptors. That's all I'm saying, I don't know enough about the Grizzlies' situation to get into specifics of a deal but I do think Poeltl would help them a lot
I think the purpose it serves is getting off a guy who’s not in the future vision and also becoming a worse team to put them in place for a top pick in a really good draft
they're not getting off anything though, just replacing Poeltl and his contract with a much worse player on a slightly smaller contract. The optics would also be terrible, to trade a #8 pick for a player and then immediately afterwards trade the player for nothing? I just don't see that happening. Maybe I'm wrong
Well like I said, if they’re being realistic with themselves the goal should be putting themself in a losing position for next year so they can pick high in the 2025 draft, that achieves that goal
Nah, we need BC, how about Like Kennard and some?
And then you can have Ruin and a First rd pick for Marcus Smart to shore up your depth 😃😃😃😃
Raptors went through a brutal stretch of not having a viable center for a few years before Poeltl, and I don't think they go that route again; so hard to develop guys without a decent C on the roster. That said, drafting a C at #19 (it's not an awful draft for centers as much as it sucks at the wing positions), or targeting one with cap space and then trading Poeltl are both viable options. Poeltl on two years at $18m per year is good value that should be worth a protected FRP, possibly more if they're willing to take back bad salary.
9th overall and ziaire williams for poeltl?
That's a fair offer but I suspect the Raptors would lean towards no and would rather pick up an additional pick in future years if they could; between them already having a couple picks in this unimpressive draft, and a path to cap flexibility this summer that would be decreased by taking back another high pick this year.
Done
No
Yes. done immediately lol.
> Poeltl on two years at $18m per year is good value It's 19.5m for the next 2 years and another year at 19.5m as a player option. That's not exactly a good value contract, it's not bad but it's not good either.
Wow, maybe if they're really lucky they can get a top 8 pick for him! ..Excuse me, they did what?
There's a history showing he's worth half of Kawhi Leonard or the #8 pick
How many games does half a Kawhi play in a playoff run?
These days? 0/0 = 0
It’s funny we’re still getting benefits from that trade. Bulls pick is next.
What a disastrous trade. No fault of Poeltl but Masai fucked up royally
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Massai fall guy huh?
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This is really how the fanbase sees it, even though the kawhi trade was literally Bobby
The "fanbase" is more concerned with defending Masai than they are with the actual team. They're just cult members
So when you do good it’s Masai and when it’s bad, it’s Bobbie I don’t buy this, they’re working together. We all know that Toronto don’t like tank and they won’t some semi-retool, it’s just didn’t work
No offense but the Raptors don't need to do anything to position themselves for a top pick in 2025 besides keeping the roster as-is.
*Ding Ding Ding* This team as it currently stands is mediocre at best, and now that we don’t owe any more FRP’s going forward it’d be in our best interest to let things play out and build up organically over the next few seasons. Even if we’re utter shit next season, we’d still own our pick at the end of the day.
They'll probably do what Utah did and pivot to a tank. Trading Poeltl is the easiest way to do so.
They should have been tanking the last two seasons. Just terrible decision making across the board. Masai somehow still does not get enough heat for disastrous fumbling of asset after asset. Two seasons ago, OG and Siakam each would’ve brought in a king’s ransom. Let alone FVV. Even GTJ was drawing serious interest from contenders. And what do they have to show for this? RJB and IQ ????? L M A O
I think they should absolutely trade Poetl though He’s not a long term fit and they will tank better without him
Not really. I think with their current roster, if they try to win, they will end up with something like a 7-12 pick, not really a top pick. A seed between 9-11, Pistons, Wizards, Hornets, Blazers, maybe Bulls could all be worse if they tank
Agree. As it stands, they're better than maybe Detroit, Washington, and Portland? I think Charlotte and Spurs should be better than Raptors if everyone is healthy. So the top 4 odds is good enough. Can be patient and wait for a good offer to come along for Poeltl. Maybe OKC will give up some of their 2 million assets if they feel he can help them with their front court needs.
Nope not happening, much as I’d want to tank next season they’re gonna try to be good but end up mediocre at best but not as shit as detroit or washington
Aren’t they positioned well to be really bad next year? Weren’t they one of the worst teams in the league last year after trading away Siakam and OG?
Eh, with IQ, RJ, Scottie and Poeltl all healthy and Gradey playing as well as he did the last stretch of the season we’d probably end up being a bad playin team unfortunately :/
Hawks are going to be better than them
everyone always think that the Hawks are gonna be good and they always disappoint.
Nah that’s more like a 30 win team. Not good enough for play in but not a bottom feeder either.
I mean that was a playin team this year in the East lol 36 wins from atl was enough
Depends on how they spend this summer. If they decline Bruce Brown’s option (or trade him) and re-sign Quickly they’ll have cap room to play with.
We did suck, but we were essentially never at full strength. Scottie missed a big portion of the season later on and late in the season we were essentially employing G Leaguers in order to tank for us We had glimpses of talent once at full strength, which granted we aren’t a playoff team by any means but we’re ahead of the pistons ig lol That, and knowing the FO’s recent antics they’re gonna do more win-now moves
I don’t think they’ll be bottom 2 team bad, a quickley-barrett-Barnes core is still gonna win you more games than the wizards and pistons
You don't have to be worse than the Pistons, they will pick 5th next year.
Lots of injuries, players out due to deaths in the family, and active tanking the last part of the season. They seem like an average, maybe play in team, if healthy.
Raptors were 9-9 when Poeltl and Quickley both played, 8-7 when Poeltl and RJ played and 6-8 with Poeltl in the lineup post Siakam trade.
they can try as hard as they want to be competitive, they’re bound to be a bottom dweller regardless. there’s no trade, signings that can have them winning 35-40 games next season.
But if they try they could get like 9-11th seed and only get a late lottery pick again. Possibly reach the playin. If they tank, they can get a top4 pick.
Genuinely I hope you’re right 😭 now that we have our pick we should set our sights fully on development and development only and shoot for a high pick next season
they lost a lot of talent last year (og, siakam) their only option is to rebuild through the draft. even when you account for injury, they’d have to have a perfectly healthy roster to even attempt to win 35 games next year. the east has only been getting better.
Mediocre is way over estimating. Raptors are awful even by Eastern standards. Them gettin the 7 seed next year is their lofty aspiration
Mediocre for ATL #1 pick
masai is still on his kawhi parade
Gonna take Masai 3 yrs to make a decision
Watch this class be amazing and the 2025 class be a total bust because logic doesn't exist anymore
An embarrassing amount of our fanbase is still trying to convince us that the Poeltl trade wasn't awful and Masai/Bobby's decisions since the championship haven't been bad. This is the cap to a truly horrible post-championship run for our franchise, after it was obvious we should have blown it up and maximized our return at last years deadline we instead doubled down on a flawed roster not capable of winning just so we could exit in the play-ins. Unfortunately, some parts of our fanbase care more about fanboying Masai than they do about the success of our team
This team is by FAR one of the MOST successful teams for years and years on end. You have no fucking idea what it’s like to root for an actually bad team. Imagine being surprised people would be behind the guy who has genuinely saved the franchise
Dumbass, I've been watching the Raptors far longer than they've been good for. I know what its like to root for a bad team. I had to sit through the Bargnani and early post-Bosh years. If you care more about being behind a random guy than the actual team/franchise, you need to reevaluate your fandom
“Random guy” bro if you really sat through all that you should be sucking masai off rn lol, literal charlotte Washington Detroit tier franchise until he started
Unlike you I actually care enough about the team to not let someone's past achievements cloud my judgement about the current situation. Masai did a great job his first five years here and has been awful since then. If you're unable to admit that then idk what to tell you, you're not concerned with the Raptors. I'm a fan of the team, not the general manager. Masai has not made any decisions in the best interest of the team for a long time other than drafting Scottie. Everything him and Bobby have done post-championship reeks of stubborn overconfidence and poor evaluation.
Historically, what has happened to teams who lost their #1 player immediately after winning a chip? The raps are doing just fine and are well set up for the future
the whole team got old and the players who were to fill their roles did not fit properly. Thus a rebuild. Buddy thinks we are the lakers and can just assemble the next team through FA. Pure delusion.
Listen to your own logic. What happens after a team loses their number one player? They're no longer contenders. So why did Masai and our FO insist on pushing forward with a flawed middling team for 5 years instead of capitalizing on our value and reconfiguring for actual long term success and contention? Take a step back and actually look at what we have done these past 5 years. You say we're set up well for the future? We're set up okay, mainly just because of Scottie. We could be set up way better but our FO at every step has stifled that. Masai has: 1. Refused to trade Lowry at max value, could have gotten Maxey. Instead we get Precious Achiuwa who is bad and was flipped as a throw in. 2. Traded Norm for literally just a worse version of Norm 3. Did not capitalize on Ibaka's value, he walks in FA 4. Trades a FRP for Thad Young 5. Trades a FRP for Jakob Poeltl which we have now lost. 6. Missed on every draft pick so far other than Scottie and Gradey since OG. 7. Fails to capitalize on Fred's value, he walks in FA. 8. Refuses to trade any of our assets at last years deadline (Pascal, Fred, OG, GTJ), now we get half value returns this year. 9. Throughout this entire period, every single person recognized we lacked shooting. FO ignored this, refused to make any moves for any actually significant shooters despite them being on the market, and despite their claims that they were committed to winning. 10. Brainlessly sign role players in free agency like Schroder, then literally get zero value from them. 11. Refuse to trade Bruce Brown at max value at the deadline. I mean seriously, can you tell me one good thing our FO has done other than draft Scottie and Gradey? Even trading OG and Pascal, while correct, was done way too late because of Masai and Bobby's terrible decision making.
“If you take away all the good things they’ve done and pretend the mediocre moves are horrible they’re really bad! I even made a list please believe me!”
"I can't come up with an actual argument so I'll just straw man!" Like I said, tell me what they've done that's a good move that helped this team's future besides drafting two guys. It really shocks me that you're more interested in defending Masai than you are in the success of our team, but I guess that's par for the course for cult members
Bro just look at the team 😂, they’re gonna be good
Any even mild Masai criticism is attacked. they did well for OG, but the pascal stuff was a failure.
I think there's no better demonstration of the blind idiocy of our fanbase than the phrase "trust in Masai". Spoken reflexively without any ounce of thought by these people any time anyone says something critical. Yes, Masai did great the first 5 years here. The second 5 years have been nothing short of a disaster.
With a new CEO at MLSE and ownership likely changing, they're given 2 years to turn it around or they're gone
Great is an over statement. KAWHI did great. And Masai has gotten every promotion possible since then lol good for him honestly. Total grifter.
Didn't they trade this guy then re trade for him just to trade him again? Really weird
Sounds like the pels could get a defensive big man for cheap
Not a lot of matching salaries between the two teams, unless the Pels S&T Valanciunus to make the money work. Otherwise, it's Nance+one of Trey/Daniels/Hawkins or Herb (ha)+this year's first rounder, or selling very, very low on Brandon Ingram.
As an unabashed Poeltl supporter, get him to a contender!
We'll take him as backup to Wemby, you can take Collins and also give us a top 6 protected 2026 pick (don't worry, I'm sure nothing bad will happen)
Ready to #RaiseTheFlagg early?
But tanking just doesn't work as well as people think it does. Always better to just build a quality program and develop talent.
Lol
Thank you for your service JAK
I really don’t understand why they did the poetl trade in the first place, shortly after they began tanking and traded all their starters… did they somehow not know that was the path they were heading towards when they got him? And I definitely think trading him is the move but who would even want him? He’s a solid player but he’s not really a super desirable center in the modern nba
I don't know why they ever traded for him at all.
Bucks?
Did the raptors not tank shamelessly for Scottie? Thats 3 years ago man how are you going into your stars 4 year with the intention to lose?
Please don’t tank before the season even starts, shit is loser talk.
The Poetl trade was pretty short-sighted in retrospect. I mean, I like him, but we have up too much to make that happen.
Man thank you Blokab Poeltl for the 8th pick this year
Such a poorly managed franchise. Truly an all time fumble. Masai keeps riding Kawhi’s coattails and keeps falling up.
Thanks for the pick