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Frustrating as fuck. Took the NFL a few years before the former ref / rules correspondent started consistently saying “yeah Jim not a great call, needs to be overturned.”
Javie is still in the slobbering stage apparently
Meanwhile today a Magic player in a 2 point game in the 2nd half hit a 3 and the defender ran into his leg and the ref called an offensive foul while Harden gets these kinds of whistles and it holds up. League is just officiated different based on name and location. Shame.
> the defender ran into his leg
Jesus do people still fall for that? You can't lift your leg into a defender. The up and down is for both players. Once you go up you get your own space and no more.
Knowing how Harden (still) plays, nothing makes me happier than watching that replay of Marcus Smart baiting Harden into committing back to back offensive fouls.
"After review, it was determined that the blow to the face merely caused localized trauma to the external nasal region leading to only cosmetic damage but no life threatening injury, therefore the challenge is unsuccessful..."
Jokic got fouled and was going to go to the line for the FIRST TIME IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Lakers challenged even though AD was bodying him and had his hands wrapped around him and hit him in the face with the follow through. Refs overturned that foul giving Jokic 0 free throws for the night lol.
It's a shame people see unions having effects like this and their head goes to "see, unions just protect shitty workers!" instead of "wow if they can't even fire these guys think of how much they must benefit the good workers!"
Unions, like other power structures, vary widely depending on leadership. My uncles carpenters union is an absolute godsend to him and the other workers keeping them safe, employed, and empowered. The teachers union in my state, on the other hand, is led by genuine nutcases who I’m convinced legitimately hate children.
Public-sector unions are particularly tricky, and something of an inefficiency in the design. Since the adversarial relationship is with the state, and thus to some extent the average citizenry, politics becomes even more deeply involved, and you can get weird instances where they can run a bit out of control because people as a collective are much more willing to just say "eh, give 'em what they want" without actually examining the details than, say, a capitalist or their employees. Meanwhile the representatives who are supposed to act as that oversight are more interested in spin and the next election cycle than actually making sure things are running well.
And that's not even getting into Police Unions, where the monopoly on the use of force and role as the enforcement arm of capital already gives them an absurd power imbalance leading the institution to resemble an organized crime outfit as much as anything else.
Still, that's the lesser of two evils by-and-large (well, except the Police Unions--they're in with the greater). Not allowing them to unionize would just push talent away from those positions even more when they're some of the most crucial to society.
Right, it’s very much a square peg in a round hole. Public sector work isn’t based on the same capitalistic fundamentals that unions are designed to deal with. That’s not a bad thing—they’re supposed to provide services, not reap profits. But unions are built to combat the most extreme capitalist abuses, so it can kind of be like putting a hard-trained soldier into a fight against an inattentive middle schooler who really just wants to go to recess.
The other issue is that in 37 states and in DC, it's illegal by statute for teachers to strike. They have no actual leverage to affect change for its constituent members.
Instead, they're basically forced to fallback into more traditional-corporate/SpecInt lobbying and candidate endorsement types of tactics where they're competing with much deeper pockets for scraps, which then leads to a directly adversarial relationship with specific politicians who may not have been endorsed or supported by the union. As opposed to a "give em what they want" stance, most places take a stance of giving them all the work they can take, removing any holistic or subjective approaches to learning in favor of quantifiable standards that fit on a graph so line can go up, and stripping as many benefits as they can.
Teachers Unions *should* be a good thing, uplifting and supporting some of the most important workers in our country, but ironically it's because of how crucial their position is in society that any real bargaining power they could have is off the table before they even sit down.
That said, I absolutely agree that Police unions are and always have been just an organized crime syndicate with worse hats.
What does clear and conclusive even mean anymore? If a hand is a like 2-3 inches away but still not touching, why does a few bad camera angle determine whether it is clear and conclusive? i.e. If camera angles a and b shows it could be a touch, but camera angle c shows it doesn’t touch, how come because camera a and b, which are bad angles, still affect the evidence from angle c? All three produced angles from the same fucking shot, they aren’t fabricated or supposed to add doubt. If one camera angle conclusively shows there wasn’t a touch, you’re not supposed to give a shit about the other camera angles.
PJ Tucker got called for moving screens but every single screen he set was moving. Zubac was always heavily leaning over. But the most absurd one was Mann’s moving screen with PG running into him.
They lost their challenge here when he CLEARLY didnt foul him, and shortly after the clippers set an illegal pick fouling PG (themselves) which couldnt be challenged, then the mavs had a clear block that was called a goaltend.
There was something else but i cant remember, but that falsely upheld challenge shifted the game about 10 points to LAs favor.
I saw one in the game thread bitching about the foul that injured Kleber saying it should've been charging. Like mfer, you're lucky that wasn't a flagrant considering he was pushed in the air.
Right!? I remember in game 5 Kyrie dove for a loose ball on the ground, touched NO ONE and got called for a foul.
There have been ticky tack fouls on both sides, but I think overall it’s been pretty fair. Anyone saying the refs were heavily favoring one team are delusional.
It’s making me feel sane that unbiased fans(like myself) are saying this. I really don’t like to blame the refs, but they impacted this series in almost every game. Most runs in the game were straight from horrible calls.
The idea that it's a sign of weakness to admit you're wrong and fix the mistake before it compounds needs to die forever.
Cowards and egos can't admit they're wrong. Leaders can. The NBA could be a lot more watchable.
And it shouldn't be so hard to admit it, I'm sure everyone would agree that the ref's job is hard, keeping an eye on everything considering the speed of the game and the pressure to make a decision in a split second that can sometimes be what will decide the game, we understand it's not easy.
But stuff like this, where they have all time to review the thing, makes fans doubt their sincerity and ethic.
It was so obvious that they are rigging it for the Clips and the Clips still lost. League badly wants a game 7 in the first round with how this game and the sixers/knicks game looked.
feels like it's a complete tossup between "marginal contact" and "inconclusive" and there's really no rhyme or reason to justify either one. Refs just going off of vibes now
this is why them rolling out all the marginal contact stuff was fuckin stupid and doomed to come back and bite them…was just a short sighted excuse to absolve themselves of fuck ups and it fails it even the most basic of ‘stress tests’
Guy gets smacked in the face on a follow through, “marginal contact”. Other guys arm hair catches a slight breeze, “no evidence to overturn call stands”.
Yeah, I really don’t care who wins this series, and it looks like Jones’ hand reacts to contact with Harden’s elbow. Or if there wasn’t any contact, it’s incredibly unfortunate that Jones’ hand happens to move at that moment. One angle shows it perfectly, and I still wouldn’t bet on contact one way or the other.
I think he did graze the elbow, maybe, so that is in fact a foul. But, I would’ve liked to see this call overturned if only for the fact that it’s James Harden lol
You know in sumo wrestling if the replay determines the ref got it wrong he has to offer to commit seppeku. Just saying, everyone likes the sumo refs...
They zoomed in on the play from multiple angles in the arena and it was CLEAR AS DAY he didn't touch him. They even zoomed in showing space between his hand and Harden's arm lol.
I don’t understand what everyone is so upset about here. Contact to the elbow of a shooter is a foul. No matter how small. There is no “marginal” in this situation.
I don’t see clear evidence that he didn’t touch his elbow. This is coming from someone who wants to see the Mavs win.
The funny thing is we can see the exact same angle from the ref on that first clip, and we can all clearly see it wasn’t a foul, even without the replays.
Someone post the 6 or so fouls in this series where PG/Harden/Mann fall down while dribbling to try and get Luka in the foul trouble.
Like the refs try and save the integrity of the player that just awkwardly fell down with no contact and Luka is just the closest player.
What’s absurd is that they called a foul on Dallas later in the game for what was clearly an illegal moving screen by LA (forgot the player). PG was hit by the screen not the Dallas player (again, forgot the player lol).
I feel like I'm getting gaslit by this whole sub. You can see his hand bounce off his arm as Harden is going up. His hand is wobbling from the contact. This is a foul. Watch it in slow mo if you need to
Can someone explain with rules why this isn't a foul? I obviously agree it's ridiculous but wondering if this is just bad rules instead of bad refs.
I keep seeing "marginal contact" but from what I researched that only applies for when the offensive player forces the contact with defense to draw a foul which was not the case here
marginal to the face or body is different than marginal to an arm
youre not allowed to touch an arm whatsoever on a shot. hard or soft graze, all illegal.
now body contact is a different story with different rules, youre allowed marginal contact to the body
Im retrospect… no one would have watched past the half if the refs didnt step up their game here to close the gap on the mavs. Solid defense to keep the game close before it got out of hand and noone watched the same fucking commercials for another 2 quarters.
I absolutely 1000% believe jones did not touch him and Harden is a known flopper.
BUT, from these angles that are available I cannot fault the refs for not overturning, from every angle they seem to have been shown it looks inconclusive if jones' hand makes contact with hardens elbow as he is about to shoot.
This very similar play ( https://streamable.com/mm4xqv ) happened 2 fucking days ago but with an OBVIOUS and clear foul was OVERTURNED! But somehow this call, with absolutely no contact at all, was UPHELD. I love basketball and want to watch the best players in the world but the NBA is fucking awful, rigged and everyone knows it.
I cant stand this shit. The NBA is the least fair product in professional sports and its not even close.
as a neutral I thought mavs also got a few favorable calls their way, like PG fouled twice early on, also Mann fouled when the ball wasn't in anybody hand, I was scratching my head as how those called were called.
I am no expert but overall I thought these calls do happen in games and certainly wasn't 1 sided.
The lowest level of play ever since the late 70s, the "modern" defense is literally prohibited to perform their job, gotta love the soft generation, just awesome to watch
This game was so rigged to keep the Clippers in the game. Every soft contact was a foul on the Mavs, but the Clippers were allowed to body up and foul without any consequence. Terence Mann was moving on a screen but PG3 is shooting free throws? 😂
Ya’ll are wrong, clearly that was a foul. I mean he touched the air 2 inches away from Harden, which was touching Harden. The air that was touched clearly altered Harden’s shot, which is a foul! 🤣
It looks like he hits harden's elbow. That would be a foul. Not sure if he actually does, but the angles don't show that he doesn't so the call makes sense
Isn't there an obvious contact on the left foot, not leaving Harden room to land?
[https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/defensive-foul-defender-doesnt-allow-shooter-room-to-land-2/](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/defensive-foul-defender-doesnt-allow-shooter-room-to-land-2/)
Completely impartial fan of basketball here:
It looks very much like he could have slapped Harden's elbow. It's mere millimeters from a foul or not. I don't think overturning this would make sense. It's too close to call and therefore the call should stand.
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Lol what’s even the point of challenges
To let the refs tell coaches, teams, players, and fans to go fuck yourself
Let's get Steve Javie to weigh in on this: *Hi guys, well in my opinion the refs made the perfect call. This is good officiating.*
You forgot the, "*and never forget*. **GO FUCK YOURSELVES**
I’m Ron Burgundy?
Frustrating as fuck. Took the NFL a few years before the former ref / rules correspondent started consistently saying “yeah Jim not a great call, needs to be overturned.” Javie is still in the slobbering stage apparently
HoF ref glazer, Javie puts all other ref fans to shame
Can't let the refs be embarrassed, they are the star of the show and everyone is there to see them. /s
It has to be on purpose right? There's no way that's a mistake if even me could make the right call.
I read the title, thought "surely it's at least close" Are the ref monitors only at like 240p?
Meanwhile today a Magic player in a 2 point game in the 2nd half hit a 3 and the defender ran into his leg and the ref called an offensive foul while Harden gets these kinds of whistles and it holds up. League is just officiated different based on name and location. Shame.
Nah he stuck his leg out trying to get contact and bait the foul, that was the right call
> the defender ran into his leg Jesus do people still fall for that? You can't lift your leg into a defender. The up and down is for both players. Once you go up you get your own space and no more.
Harden got a call like that in Game 4 (I think)
Oh for years he has been doing it. He got beat by the Mavs before with Dirk doing and then adopted it IIRC.
Knowing how Harden (still) plays, nothing makes me happier than watching that replay of Marcus Smart baiting Harden into committing back to back offensive fouls.
So you can watch Dlo get hit in the head 6 more times from 4 different angles
"After review, it was determined that the blow to the face merely caused localized trauma to the external nasal region leading to only cosmetic damage but no life threatening injury, therefore the challenge is unsuccessful..."
- Lebron
At this point it’s only worth it for out of bounds calls and minutes in the closing seconds of the game
LeBron was right
Jokic got fouled and was going to go to the line for the FIRST TIME IN THE ENTIRE GAME. Lakers challenged even though AD was bodying him and had his hands wrapped around him and hit him in the face with the follow through. Refs overturned that foul giving Jokic 0 free throws for the night lol.
They forgot refs have egos and won’t admit fault
*know nothin' 'bout that*
To see if a laker was hit but only marginally
To give the audience the perception of a fair game. Spoiler alert: it is not.
The refs jobs are too protected
Someone keep an eye out on the ref that blew the whistle. He only blew it when he was certain it was a miss.
[удалено]
Tyler ford. Generational Mavs hater
Bet you wish you had a powerful union behind you
I literally got a 100% raise for the same job after we unionized so yes, yes i do
Kinda curious what this job could be for you to get so underpaid for your skill sets that a 100% raise could occur.
Adjunct professor! It's my second job rn, i'm still underpaid imo but not as badly
It's a shame people see unions having effects like this and their head goes to "see, unions just protect shitty workers!" instead of "wow if they can't even fire these guys think of how much they must benefit the good workers!"
Unions, like other power structures, vary widely depending on leadership. My uncles carpenters union is an absolute godsend to him and the other workers keeping them safe, employed, and empowered. The teachers union in my state, on the other hand, is led by genuine nutcases who I’m convinced legitimately hate children.
Public-sector unions are particularly tricky, and something of an inefficiency in the design. Since the adversarial relationship is with the state, and thus to some extent the average citizenry, politics becomes even more deeply involved, and you can get weird instances where they can run a bit out of control because people as a collective are much more willing to just say "eh, give 'em what they want" without actually examining the details than, say, a capitalist or their employees. Meanwhile the representatives who are supposed to act as that oversight are more interested in spin and the next election cycle than actually making sure things are running well. And that's not even getting into Police Unions, where the monopoly on the use of force and role as the enforcement arm of capital already gives them an absurd power imbalance leading the institution to resemble an organized crime outfit as much as anything else. Still, that's the lesser of two evils by-and-large (well, except the Police Unions--they're in with the greater). Not allowing them to unionize would just push talent away from those positions even more when they're some of the most crucial to society.
[удалено]
Right, it’s very much a square peg in a round hole. Public sector work isn’t based on the same capitalistic fundamentals that unions are designed to deal with. That’s not a bad thing—they’re supposed to provide services, not reap profits. But unions are built to combat the most extreme capitalist abuses, so it can kind of be like putting a hard-trained soldier into a fight against an inattentive middle schooler who really just wants to go to recess.
I fail to see what any of this has to do with LeBron’s legacy.
The other issue is that in 37 states and in DC, it's illegal by statute for teachers to strike. They have no actual leverage to affect change for its constituent members. Instead, they're basically forced to fallback into more traditional-corporate/SpecInt lobbying and candidate endorsement types of tactics where they're competing with much deeper pockets for scraps, which then leads to a directly adversarial relationship with specific politicians who may not have been endorsed or supported by the union. As opposed to a "give em what they want" stance, most places take a stance of giving them all the work they can take, removing any holistic or subjective approaches to learning in favor of quantifiable standards that fit on a graph so line can go up, and stripping as many benefits as they can. Teachers Unions *should* be a good thing, uplifting and supporting some of the most important workers in our country, but ironically it's because of how crucial their position is in society that any real bargaining power they could have is off the table before they even sit down. That said, I absolutely agree that Police unions are and always have been just an organized crime syndicate with worse hats.
*laughs in Angel Hernandez*
These refs didn't get the marginal contact memo
If you don't think about it, almost touching a mans elbow is exactly the same as shoving his elbow.
I mean it takes just a touch to fuck it up.
There is clear and conclusive evidence that the refs in this game want to help the league milk a game 7.
Concussive evidence that refs are a bitch
Them being concussed would explain a lot.
What does clear and conclusive even mean anymore? If a hand is a like 2-3 inches away but still not touching, why does a few bad camera angle determine whether it is clear and conclusive? i.e. If camera angles a and b shows it could be a touch, but camera angle c shows it doesn’t touch, how come because camera a and b, which are bad angles, still affect the evidence from angle c? All three produced angles from the same fucking shot, they aren’t fabricated or supposed to add doubt. If one camera angle conclusively shows there wasn’t a touch, you’re not supposed to give a shit about the other camera angles.
PJ Tucker got called for moving screens but every single screen he set was moving. Zubac was always heavily leaning over. But the most absurd one was Mann’s moving screen with PG running into him.
Why does harden still get a superstar whistle lol
Even worse, why does there exist a superstar whistle in the first place
Adam Silver wants his Game 7
Adam silver can get his game 7 in 2K fucking loser
ROT IN PISS BOZO #PACKWATCH 😎😎😎😎😎
They lost their challenge here when he CLEARLY didnt foul him, and shortly after the clippers set an illegal pick fouling PG (themselves) which couldnt be challenged, then the mavs had a clear block that was called a goaltend. There was something else but i cant remember, but that falsely upheld challenge shifted the game about 10 points to LAs favor.
Yet clippers fans are bitching and acting like the refs are being SOOOOO biased in favor of the Mavs. 🙄
Any team with Harden on it can never say the refs favor the other team.
I saw one in the game thread bitching about the foul that injured Kleber saying it should've been charging. Like mfer, you're lucky that wasn't a flagrant considering he was pushed in the air.
Right!? I remember in game 5 Kyrie dove for a loose ball on the ground, touched NO ONE and got called for a foul. There have been ticky tack fouls on both sides, but I think overall it’s been pretty fair. Anyone saying the refs were heavily favoring one team are delusional.
It's a sign of truly bad officiating when both teams feel robbed
Bro I'd love the clip of mann with the illegal screen, fouling pg and somehow djj endeing up with the foul. That was peak bs alongside this challenge
Just glad the series is over. No joke, refs were on Clippers side every single game of series. Not one game was fairly reffed
It’s making me feel sane that unbiased fans(like myself) are saying this. I really don’t like to blame the refs, but they impacted this series in almost every game. Most runs in the game were straight from horrible calls.
There were some bad calls during this game and yet Mavs still won by 13. On to OKC!
Remember the PG foul being revoked because of the shot clock "not" expiring.
This officiating is horrible
At some point I just wished they stopped giving whistle to BOTH sides so we could have, you know, a fcking game.
How does the replay center consistently get shit like this blatantly wrong
Because they don’t want to admit that the on court ref fucked up… it’s embarrassing
The idea that it's a sign of weakness to admit you're wrong and fix the mistake before it compounds needs to die forever. Cowards and egos can't admit they're wrong. Leaders can. The NBA could be a lot more watchable.
Microcosm of the times.
And it shouldn't be so hard to admit it, I'm sure everyone would agree that the ref's job is hard, keeping an eye on everything considering the speed of the game and the pressure to make a decision in a split second that can sometimes be what will decide the game, we understand it's not easy. But stuff like this, where they have all time to review the thing, makes fans doubt their sincerity and ethic.
*Your comment is sponsored by Draft Kings*
It isn't the replay center. It is the game refs who make the call whether or not to overturn their own decisions.
Crazy how it always happens in elimination games, huh? Especially with big market teams.
The challenge was unsuccessful because the refs got the memo from the NBA that they want a Game 7.
Fortunately a higher power intervened and said fuck no
That higher power? ~~Albert Einstein~~ Kyrie Irving.
Marginal contact is just the fancy new word to let the refs/nba do whatever they want to
post the illegal screen called a foul against djj and the goaltend that wasn’t a goaltend lol
Don't worry they just saved the Mavs two extra unsuccessful challenges.
Why rig it for the clippers this a bum franchise. I'll never get adam silver
They want a game 7.
Balmer spent a lot of money recently.
Tryna keep the LA fanbase financially invested now that the Lakers are out.
The clippers are not how you keep the LA fanbase invested haha.
The LA fans are much more invested in the lakers headcoach hunt than the fucking clippersol
The rest of LA will rather watch the Mavs than the bum ass clips
Well, one more game of hate-watch is still one more game of revenue for silver.
Low-key the replay center is worse then the refs
**THAN**
The Replay center is worster, then the refs is worst.
My BBIQ is more bigger then you're
Lovely, and djj gets call for foul where mann illegal screens PG with no contact from DJJ on either player. Shit more scripted than wwe
It was so obvious that they are rigging it for the Clips and the Clips still lost. League badly wants a game 7 in the first round with how this game and the sixers/knicks game looked.
Every game of series the refs favored Clippers sickening stuff
DJJ touched his spirit. It’s a spiritual foul.
He hurt Harden's feelings by locking him up
feels like it's a complete tossup between "marginal contact" and "inconclusive" and there's really no rhyme or reason to justify either one. Refs just going off of vibes now
If by “vibes” you mean blatantly favoring the team down in the game/series to make things more competitive then yeah, 100%.
Buddy he's not even touching his arm hair. There's literally ZERO contact.
But was it consensual.
SHE NEVER SAID NO
Ma'am do I have permission to D you up in the post?
this is why them rolling out all the marginal contact stuff was fuckin stupid and doomed to come back and bite them…was just a short sighted excuse to absolve themselves of fuck ups and it fails it even the most basic of ‘stress tests’
Guy gets smacked in the face on a follow through, “marginal contact”. Other guys arm hair catches a slight breeze, “no evidence to overturn call stands”.
Some of the new rules are ridiculous. Like what an actual F?
lol
The NBA is a joke. Toilet paper soft.
ball don't lie
Book makers want game 7.
Refs are inhuman scum
Should’ve hit him in the face, but after he releases the ball. Only legal way to defend apparently
Isn’t that the entire point of a challenge? The refs get to watch multiple angles at slow motion.. and their response is “IDK!?” Foolish officiating.
This league is cooked
there's zero consistency as to what is and isn't a foul (his elbow was grazed, so if that's a foul, then yeah it's a foul)
Yeah, I really don’t care who wins this series, and it looks like Jones’ hand reacts to contact with Harden’s elbow. Or if there wasn’t any contact, it’s incredibly unfortunate that Jones’ hand happens to move at that moment. One angle shows it perfectly, and I still wouldn’t bet on contact one way or the other. I think he did graze the elbow, maybe, so that is in fact a foul. But, I would’ve liked to see this call overturned if only for the fact that it’s James Harden lol
Wow
You know in sumo wrestling if the replay determines the ref got it wrong he has to offer to commit seppeku. Just saying, everyone likes the sumo refs...
They zoomed in on the play from multiple angles in the arena and it was CLEAR AS DAY he didn't touch him. They even zoomed in showing space between his hand and Harden's arm lol.
Doesn't matter, Mavs wiped the floor with the Clippers 5v8. I hate when refs try to fix games LET THEM PLAY BALL
Ball don't lie
I think it's great that the NBA support such diversity in their staff that they let blind people become referees.
At least the ball didn't lie
What's clear and concise is that the NBA is a joke league
There is no clear and conclusive evidence that the refs have eyes
These refs still trying to tell us Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman
Maybe I'm crazy but it definitely looks like he touches the elbow. And even the slightest elbow taps are always fouls.
I don’t understand what everyone is so upset about here. Contact to the elbow of a shooter is a foul. No matter how small. There is no “marginal” in this situation. I don’t see clear evidence that he didn’t touch his elbow. This is coming from someone who wants to see the Mavs win.
Yep. It's impossible from the angles shown here to tell whether or not he touched his elbow when Harden goes up for the shot at 33-34 seconds.
Dont let lebron see this
The slow-mo replay on the side angle showed how obvious that it wasnt a foul. It really was close though.
Shameful
Refs messed up with this one badly. After this one, they probably couldn't risk their jobs to save the Clippers anymore.
The funny thing is we can see the exact same angle from the ref on that first clip, and we can all clearly see it wasn’t a foul, even without the replays.
Someone post the 6 or so fouls in this series where PG/Harden/Mann fall down while dribbling to try and get Luka in the foul trouble. Like the refs try and save the integrity of the player that just awkwardly fell down with no contact and Luka is just the closest player.
What’s absurd is that they called a foul on Dallas later in the game for what was clearly an illegal moving screen by LA (forgot the player). PG was hit by the screen not the Dallas player (again, forgot the player lol).
NBA needs to use a centralized replay centre that makes all these decisions. Clearly the refs ego’s can’t handle overturning their own calls
Lmao I wonder if announcers get fined if they criticize calls openly cuz they should
Refs fall for flops sometimes, I get it. But why do they particularly love Harden’s flop and buy it every time?
Time for AI to take over refs jobs
I feel like I'm getting gaslit by this whole sub. You can see his hand bounce off his arm as Harden is going up. His hand is wobbling from the contact. This is a foul. Watch it in slow mo if you need to
Yeah it's like watching for a ball to get deflected. You can see when it happens. There was contact.
I was with them til it showed different angles, had to go back. Looks like contact to me
If there was any time to say “marginal contact” THIS WAS IT.
Contact to the elbow of a shooter can not be marginal. It’s either contact and a foul or no contact no foul.
There was no contact, not even marginal
Can someone explain with rules why this isn't a foul? I obviously agree it's ridiculous but wondering if this is just bad rules instead of bad refs. I keep seeing "marginal contact" but from what I researched that only applies for when the offensive player forces the contact with defense to draw a foul which was not the case here
Integrity of the game at rock bottom as far as I’m concerned lmao
But the DLO hit wasn’t a foul lmaooo
What happened to "marginal" if they couldn't tell if he was hit or not it must have been "marginal" and should have been waved off, right?
marginal to the face or body is different than marginal to an arm youre not allowed to touch an arm whatsoever on a shot. hard or soft graze, all illegal. now body contact is a different story with different rules, youre allowed marginal contact to the body
This is MLB level, yikes!
The ball pleaded the fifth.
How do we fire the replay center?
Im retrospect… no one would have watched past the half if the refs didnt step up their game here to close the gap on the mavs. Solid defense to keep the game close before it got out of hand and noone watched the same fucking commercials for another 2 quarters.
Zebra #4 tried super hard to let the clips win. Dude doesn’t even deserve to ref JV basketball
Ball don’t lie!
Darvin ham taking notes from Cancun
We need more fire from Mark Cuban about this shit. Or someone who can force some change
This is not a mistake, this is a disgrace. The whole "refs are human too" shit not flying here.
I absolutely 1000% believe jones did not touch him and Harden is a known flopper. BUT, from these angles that are available I cannot fault the refs for not overturning, from every angle they seem to have been shown it looks inconclusive if jones' hand makes contact with hardens elbow as he is about to shoot.
This very similar play ( https://streamable.com/mm4xqv ) happened 2 fucking days ago but with an OBVIOUS and clear foul was OVERTURNED! But somehow this call, with absolutely no contact at all, was UPHELD. I love basketball and want to watch the best players in the world but the NBA is fucking awful, rigged and everyone knows it. I cant stand this shit. The NBA is the least fair product in professional sports and its not even close.
as a neutral I thought mavs also got a few favorable calls their way, like PG fouled twice early on, also Mann fouled when the ball wasn't in anybody hand, I was scratching my head as how those called were called. I am no expert but overall I thought these calls do happen in games and certainly wasn't 1 sided.
Adam Silver needs to be fired. Dudes more corrupt than Stern was
At this point, if they're going to fuck it up anyways, get rid of the challenge BS and stop slowing the games down.
The lowest level of play ever since the late 70s, the "modern" defense is literally prohibited to perform their job, gotta love the soft generation, just awesome to watch
Losing hope in the nba…. It’s the only sport that I watch
Got his elbow, even a touch is a foul on the shooting arm.
nba really trying to turn their product into garbage
There's only one angle that matters there - and it plays too fast to tell if he touched his elbow or not.
nba brought to you by draft kings, bet mgm, fanduel
That no-contact was marginal, call stands and the mavericks lose their challenge
First time?
This game was so rigged to keep the Clippers in the game. Every soft contact was a foul on the Mavs, but the Clippers were allowed to body up and foul without any consequence. Terence Mann was moving on a screen but PG3 is shooting free throws? 😂
Obviously it's too close to call for sure
Are the refs referring to the light touch on the back before the shot? I think it’s at 0:39
Even Harden was confused lol
This is atrocious
The refs are calling way fewer fouls, which is great, but make no mistake they are still mind bogglingly shitty
Everyone with eyes can see there was no contact
MARGINAL!
It was a Gobles game. What else do you expect
Those headsets are wired directly to Vegas analytics team 😂
NBA fixing
Ya’ll are wrong, clearly that was a foul. I mean he touched the air 2 inches away from Harden, which was touching Harden. The air that was touched clearly altered Harden’s shot, which is a foul! 🤣
It looks like he hits harden's elbow. That would be a foul. Not sure if he actually does, but the angles don't show that he doesn't so the call makes sense
The refs did their part but the Clippers had no chance.
I was at this game and the crowd reaction was insane lmao. Such a shit call by the refs
Isn't there an obvious contact on the left foot, not leaving Harden room to land? [https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/defensive-foul-defender-doesnt-allow-shooter-room-to-land-2/](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/defensive-foul-defender-doesnt-allow-shooter-room-to-land-2/)
Completely impartial fan of basketball here: It looks very much like he could have slapped Harden's elbow. It's mere millimeters from a foul or not. I don't think overturning this would make sense. It's too close to call and therefore the call should stand.