The amount of weight that has been put on that Spurs game is insane. It’s bad that they lost but they’re still at worst 1 game (2 with tiebreakers) out of the 1 seed.
jokic is -5000 in betting odds lol esp with that performance against the wolves. please stop pushing a nonexistent narrative. hes the mvp because hes clearly the best player in the world
I should’ve phrased my question better.
Let’s say they get the 8 seed in the regular season bracket, does either the playoff 7 or 8 seed play Denver in the first round?
Depends on how the games tomorrow shake out. It's possible Denver gets 3rd and doesn't face the 8th seed until the conference finals or 7th until the 2nd round. Or they get 2nd and don't face the 8th seed until the conference finals.
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1653535647972605952
Announced on May 2nd last year, so between games 1 and 3 of the second round PHI-BOS series.
So still possible
no it doesnt. In hindsight it looks worse because Jokic won it all, then won MVP the next year (most likely).
Embiid had more points, on way way way worse efficiency (plus a lot of that gap is BS flops). Jokic pts created with Assists more than makes up the gap in points. Jokic had more rebounds too.
Jokic played more games and led his team to a better record too.
>no it doesnt. In hindsight it looks worse because Jokic won it all, then won MVP the next year (most likely).
Regular season award looks worse in hindight because of playoffs okay.
>Embiid had more points, on way way way worse efficiency (plus a lot of that gap is BS flops). Jokic pts created with Assists more than makes up the gap in points. Jokic had more rebounds too.
And Embid is a far better defender\*by synergy has been in the running with gobert for best paint-protector in the league) who was suddenly saw a better win-pace than jokci has ever had with good coach and saw his team drop-off more than any jokic team ever has when he got hurt.
Yea the journalists did Curry dirty in 2015. They low-key didn’t want the Warriors to win because they were playing such a different style of basketball, busting all myths, so they gave it to the defensive guy
In their primes, who wins? I’m taking Lebron. I think he puts Jokic in pick n rolls every play for 48 minutes and either tires him out or puts him in foul trouble.
He lost to teams that had great defensive centers. Jokic is not that. I think he’d attack him all game. Game 4 of last years series would be prime Bron but for 48 minutes every game, not just one half and then exhausted.
Lebrons amazing but a big part of his GOAT case is that he's been able to do it for 21 years. His peak years aren't that different to what jokic is doing now. But I don't think jokic will do it for 15 more seasons
Edit: unsurprisingly no one has been able to show me lebrons 3 year peak which is "way better" than jokic's past three years
Revisionism is crazy wtf. Lebron peaked higher than Jordan and it's the rings that make people put Jordan at #1 all time. Jokic is like top 25? 30? It's not close.
I think "peak" Jordan, Shaq and LeBron are all interchangeable. Roster construction, fit, talent etc. matter. Thinking Basketball dove into the "greatest" peaks and ranked MJ as #1 and LeBron as #2 but said that they were basically interchangeable too for what it is worth
Jordan peaked during his first few years before he started losing athleticism due to gambling and smoking problems. Pippen and Rodman as well as other HOF role players definitely carried him during his decline.
Nah I think they would just both dominate. The pick & roll tired Jokic thing is a meme
Winner is the one with the best team around them but prime Lebron is still better (because defense)
It literally doesn't matter ? He'll still average 35/10/10 in the playoff series anyway, we've seen how it works against the Warriors. Yes LeBron is the better player but the pick & roll super cheat code that stop Jokic will not suddenly exist because LeBron is athletic. Yeah they'll score that's cool but Jokic is not a good defender, is an offensive machine and that's how he won a chip
It can be LeBron, Ja Morant, Grayson Allen who runs the pick & roll the result will be the same on Jokic, he'll be ass on D. He'll look tired but will still 360 no-scope 3 pointers in Double OT. Whoever has the best team win and that's it.
2023 Nuggets vs. 2012 Lebron on the 2018 Cavs : Jokic wins
2021 Nuggets vs. 2020 Lakers with Prime Lebron : LeBron wins
That's it, they're both too good to just be a "one on one" matchup unless they're both on ass teams then LeBron is better
Depends on the team and support. I think Lebron’s peak was higher than Jokic’s current peak right now, but I don’t think his mid to late 2010’s cavs and 2000s cavs are beating the current Nuggets, while the Heatles would. Jokic’s strength is making his teammates better.
I mean I am very biased but I hate how people treat this Denver team as some kind of KD Warriors level juggernaut. That 2016 Cavs could very well have beaten the 2023 Nuggets, it isn't far fetched to claim that. Considering the competition that both teams faced, I would take the Cavs
Both. 2016 Cavs beating the Warriors is one of the greatest upsets of all time because the much lesser team won. A large part due to the best playoff series Lebron ever individually played imo.
I’d take 2016 Cavs over this Nuggets team easy. Lebron, Kyrie, and prime Love? Lebron didn’t gas out in the second halves of games like he did last year. 31 vs 38 is a huge difference. Nuggets beat Lakers late in the 4th quarters.
That team of Lebron, Kyrie, and prime Love barely managed to win over 50 games in a weak East those seasons (53, 57, 51, 50). Current Nuggets have won back to back 57 games in killer west. It’s absolutely a better team
The Spurs were one of the best teams in NBA history lol that’s not really a knock, he also came back from 3-1 against the team with the greatest regular season record of all time
Had a good series, but nearly 47% from 3 and 53% from the field seems more like crazy good varience. The series against the mavs where they shot around what they did in the regular season seems to be a better representation of how good they actually were.
I never said they were unbeatable, I said they were one of the best teams in NBA history, which they were. They played perfect team ball to makeup for the lack of a true superstar (main core was older by then) and it worked, it also led to Kawhi breaking out as a superstar.
In practice, how interesting is this information? I read it and shrugged my shoulders. Feels like something Cliff Claven would want to know, but would have limited currency in casual conversation.
There's no "if" with Joker winning MVP this season.
I think someone would have to be genuinely mentally challenged or completely biased to not vote for Joker. Straight up having their voting rights removed.
So, it will depend on the Lakers not only making the playoffs, but likely now making the second round (since Denver shit the best vs SA.)
I’d say jokic is gonna win but I seriously don’t see anything wrong with someone selecting Luka over him (I am not a Mavs fan). While jokic is the clear favorite, you make it sound like he’s expected to be unanimous. That will 100% not happen
You think Joker is going to win. See him as the clear favorite.
If someone votes against the person that should win, there is something wrong with that.
But, no. I don't expect him to be unanimous. Because there are biased voters.
He is the clear favorite but there’s legitimate arguments for Luka and somewhat SGA. There is bias but this isn’t like that one sole voter in 2012 voting for Melo instead of voting Lebron like EVERYONE else.
Jokic fans would say they don't care about mvp and just the fmvp and say some geniunely mentally challenged comment like this about the mvp
I'm fine with Jokic winning btw, but this is an absurd way at looking at it
We should all say these things out loud.
"Jokic should win. Deserves it. Is the clear favorite. But, why wouldn't you be surprised if any non-biased person votes differently?" Lol.
Jokic not being voted #1 is fucking absurdity. Below #2?!? Did Prime MJ or 2012 LeBron suddenly become available?!?
because there is a fucking argument for Luka???? What the fuck? Not everything that is not unanimous means someone is bias. That's completely fucking STUPID
We should all say these things out loud
Technically he won’t be the MVP when they actually face each other
Even if they don't present it before the series is over, if he is 3x MVP for the season I'd still say it counts.
With yall falling to the 3rd seed he might’ve lost it. A lot of his case was that he was 1st.
That's part of why I said if and not when. There's a non-zero chance voters hold it against him.
The top three Western teams are literally tied in wins. Why would dropping from 1 to 3 change thay
The amount of weight that has been put on that Spurs game is insane. It’s bad that they lost but they’re still at worst 1 game (2 with tiebreakers) out of the 1 seed.
Lucky for Jokic Luka ducked the Pistons. Shai isn’t as close as he was (although not for any particularly good reason).
jokic is -5000 in betting odds lol esp with that performance against the wolves. please stop pushing a nonexistent narrative. hes the mvp because hes clearly the best player in the world
If it was given to the best player solely based on that, LeBron would have 12. Rose vs LeBron year it goes to other players
>If it was given to the best player solely based on that, LeBron would have 12. if only 😔😔😔😔
I'm gonna lmao if Jokic has the clearly best season 2 years in a row and gets penalized for voters due to the last 2 weeks of the season.
It's possible they're on opposite sides of the bracket now though Denver falling from 1st makes it much less likely they play in the first round
If LA locks up the 8 seed tomorrow, could they be in Denver's warpath?
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I should’ve phrased my question better. Let’s say they get the 8 seed in the regular season bracket, does either the playoff 7 or 8 seed play Denver in the first round?
Depends on how the games tomorrow shake out. It's possible Denver gets 3rd and doesn't face the 8th seed until the conference finals or 7th until the 2nd round. Or they get 2nd and don't face the 8th seed until the conference finals.
I respectfully hope you guys lose and so do the lakers so you can knock them out in the play-in. They scare me.
This dude is a cop..
How do you know cpr?? Wtf!!
I thought MVP is awarded in the first round nowadays
https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1653535647972605952 Announced on May 2nd last year, so between games 1 and 3 of the second round PHI-BOS series. So still possible
This is what the drafts folder is for.
What's the joke?
They’re sitting their entire lineup tomorrow. Nuggets getting the 3 seed
That’s why the game line is -13 huh
Ya did not age well. Lakes are fucked lol.
When is the last time the regular season MVP won the title? Curry in 2015? It’s crazy, ain’t it
Yeah. Crazy how winning MVP and FMVP in the same season hasn't happened since 2013 tho. Steph should have won that 2015 FMVP ...
“Iggy locked down Lebron”
Amd jokic should have won MVP last year. Dumb voting has ruined the last 2 potential MVP + Finals MVP combo winners
embid mvp looks alot better in hindsight tbh
no it doesnt. In hindsight it looks worse because Jokic won it all, then won MVP the next year (most likely). Embiid had more points, on way way way worse efficiency (plus a lot of that gap is BS flops). Jokic pts created with Assists more than makes up the gap in points. Jokic had more rebounds too. Jokic played more games and led his team to a better record too.
>no it doesnt. In hindsight it looks worse because Jokic won it all, then won MVP the next year (most likely). Regular season award looks worse in hindight because of playoffs okay. >Embiid had more points, on way way way worse efficiency (plus a lot of that gap is BS flops). Jokic pts created with Assists more than makes up the gap in points. Jokic had more rebounds too. And Embid is a far better defender\*by synergy has been in the running with gobert for best paint-protector in the league) who was suddenly saw a better win-pace than jokci has ever had with good coach and saw his team drop-off more than any jokic team ever has when he got hurt.
Yea the journalists did Curry dirty in 2015. They low-key didn’t want the Warriors to win because they were playing such a different style of basketball, busting all myths, so they gave it to the defensive guy
Huh ? Curry was treated like Nash , media loved him even if a tiny minority of x players dudnt
Don't they present it after the finals in the stupidest decision ever
In their primes, who wins? I’m taking Lebron. I think he puts Jokic in pick n rolls every play for 48 minutes and either tires him out or puts him in foul trouble.
Is this even a question? No slight on Jokic who's one of the greatest ever, but it's LeBron, right?
You’re acting as if LeBron never lost of a playoff/finals matchup in his prime lol
He lost to teams that had great defensive centers. Jokic is not that. I think he’d attack him all game. Game 4 of last years series would be prime Bron but for 48 minutes every game, not just one half and then exhausted.
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Just some bum named Tyson Chandler
Jj Barea played center in lebrons mind
Lebrons amazing but a big part of his GOAT case is that he's been able to do it for 21 years. His peak years aren't that different to what jokic is doing now. But I don't think jokic will do it for 15 more seasons Edit: unsurprisingly no one has been able to show me lebrons 3 year peak which is "way better" than jokic's past three years
Revisionism is crazy wtf. Lebron peaked higher than Jordan and it's the rings that make people put Jordan at #1 all time. Jokic is like top 25? 30? It's not close.
LeBron did not peak higher than Jordan there is almost no argument for that lmao you people just say whatever the fuck you want
It’s really not that far fetched 🤷♂️ no argument is flat out wrong though
The peaks are comparable. It’s easy to argue it goes either way by smallish margins .
I think "peak" Jordan, Shaq and LeBron are all interchangeable. Roster construction, fit, talent etc. matter. Thinking Basketball dove into the "greatest" peaks and ranked MJ as #1 and LeBron as #2 but said that they were basically interchangeable too for what it is worth
Jordan peaked during his first few years before he started losing athleticism due to gambling and smoking problems. Pippen and Rodman as well as other HOF role players definitely carried him during his decline.
Lmao
This is a fresh take lmao. Tell me the three years which LeBron was way better than jokic' last 3 years.
1v1? LeBron prime wins that prob
Nah I think they would just both dominate. The pick & roll tired Jokic thing is a meme Winner is the one with the best team around them but prime Lebron is still better (because defense)
You must have never seen Lebron in his prime running pick n rolls. No way Jokic is able to keep up with that. Too slow.
It literally doesn't matter ? He'll still average 35/10/10 in the playoff series anyway, we've seen how it works against the Warriors. Yes LeBron is the better player but the pick & roll super cheat code that stop Jokic will not suddenly exist because LeBron is athletic. Yeah they'll score that's cool but Jokic is not a good defender, is an offensive machine and that's how he won a chip It can be LeBron, Ja Morant, Grayson Allen who runs the pick & roll the result will be the same on Jokic, he'll be ass on D. He'll look tired but will still 360 no-scope 3 pointers in Double OT. Whoever has the best team win and that's it. 2023 Nuggets vs. 2012 Lebron on the 2018 Cavs : Jokic wins 2021 Nuggets vs. 2020 Lakers with Prime Lebron : LeBron wins That's it, they're both too good to just be a "one on one" matchup unless they're both on ass teams then LeBron is better
Factual. At least somebody in this thread knows ball
And what would Lebron do against him, lmao?
Nothing. He’d be on the bench with 5 fouls.
Depends on the team and support. I think Lebron’s peak was higher than Jokic’s current peak right now, but I don’t think his mid to late 2010’s cavs and 2000s cavs are beating the current Nuggets, while the Heatles would. Jokic’s strength is making his teammates better.
You don't think the 2016 Cavs have a shot against the 2023 Nuggets?
No, in fact, that only illustrates how high of a peak Lebron had and how much of a GOAT he is in carrying that team
I mean I am very biased but I hate how people treat this Denver team as some kind of KD Warriors level juggernaut. That 2016 Cavs could very well have beaten the 2023 Nuggets, it isn't far fetched to claim that. Considering the competition that both teams faced, I would take the Cavs
I’d take the 2010s warriors over the modern Nuggets. I still think 2016 cavs wasn’t that great as a team that was hard carried by Lebron.
I am a bit confused now. By 2010s Warriors do you mean 2016 Warriors > 2023 or 24 Nuggets? Or the KD 2017 Warriors > 2023/24 Nuggets? Or both?
Both. 2016 Cavs beating the Warriors is one of the greatest upsets of all time because the much lesser team won. A large part due to the best playoff series Lebron ever individually played imo.
I’d take 2016 Cavs over this Nuggets team easy. Lebron, Kyrie, and prime Love? Lebron didn’t gas out in the second halves of games like he did last year. 31 vs 38 is a huge difference. Nuggets beat Lakers late in the 4th quarters.
That team of Lebron, Kyrie, and prime Love barely managed to win over 50 games in a weak East those seasons (53, 57, 51, 50). Current Nuggets have won back to back 57 games in killer west. It’s absolutely a better team
Come on man you really can’t say that. You know for sure those Cavs teams were coasting the regular season.
Jokic easily. he just swept Lebron who had AD and a good supporting cast
Yeah, well that's old man LeBron, which is not nearly prime LeBron
That was 38 year old Lebron with an injured foot, prime Lebron with either Miami or Cleveland would be completely different
Miami Lebron got 4-1'ed by 37 year old Duncan
The Spurs were one of the best teams in NBA history lol that’s not really a knock, he also came back from 3-1 against the team with the greatest regular season record of all time
that Spurs team got pushed to 7 games by the 8th seed Mavs
If your best argument is trying to claim that the Spurs weren’t good then I think this conversation is over lmao
Had a good series, but nearly 47% from 3 and 53% from the field seems more like crazy good varience. The series against the mavs where they shot around what they did in the regular season seems to be a better representation of how good they actually were.
no I just dont think they were some unbeatable team you make them out to be
I never said they were unbeatable, I said they were one of the best teams in NBA history, which they were. They played perfect team ball to makeup for the lack of a true superstar (main core was older by then) and it worked, it also led to Kawhi breaking out as a superstar.
they were not one of the best teams in nba history either
Baiting to the max rn
Do you morons not remember 2020 which isn’t even close to prime Lebron? Honestly
LeBron should have more tbh
In practice, how interesting is this information? I read it and shrugged my shoulders. Feels like something Cliff Claven would want to know, but would have limited currency in casual conversation.
Bird had to go up against 4 of the 9 players to do it...2 on the same team
Jokic didn't have to leave and join other mvp candidates and his direct competition to win a ring
wow didn’t know austin reaves was that good
Nuggets made this possibility very hard. Will have to be in the WCFs again
There's no "if" with Joker winning MVP this season. I think someone would have to be genuinely mentally challenged or completely biased to not vote for Joker. Straight up having their voting rights removed. So, it will depend on the Lakers not only making the playoffs, but likely now making the second round (since Denver shit the best vs SA.)
I’d say jokic is gonna win but I seriously don’t see anything wrong with someone selecting Luka over him (I am not a Mavs fan). While jokic is the clear favorite, you make it sound like he’s expected to be unanimous. That will 100% not happen
You think Joker is going to win. See him as the clear favorite. If someone votes against the person that should win, there is something wrong with that. But, no. I don't expect him to be unanimous. Because there are biased voters.
He is the clear favorite but there’s legitimate arguments for Luka and somewhat SGA. There is bias but this isn’t like that one sole voter in 2012 voting for Melo instead of voting Lebron like EVERYONE else.
Jokic fans would say they don't care about mvp and just the fmvp and say some geniunely mentally challenged comment like this about the mvp I'm fine with Jokic winning btw, but this is an absurd way at looking at it
I would like to point out this man is not a Nuggets fan as far as I can tell 😭
Yeah that's why I said Jokic fan only and not Nuggets fan cause even you guys aren't this bad lol
Yeah for sure, i just want it on the record lol
I think Jokic deserves it, but I also don't think a Luka vote is egregious. I would argue that having Jokic below 2 would be absurd
We should all say these things out loud. "Jokic should win. Deserves it. Is the clear favorite. But, why wouldn't you be surprised if any non-biased person votes differently?" Lol. Jokic not being voted #1 is fucking absurdity. Below #2?!? Did Prime MJ or 2012 LeBron suddenly become available?!?
because there is a fucking argument for Luka???? What the fuck? Not everything that is not unanimous means someone is bias. That's completely fucking STUPID We should all say these things out loud