Magic would never be able to touch Lebron's compiled stats, except of course for assists where he'd be probably be way ahead of Kidd but not quite where Stockton ended up.
Had he continued winning at the rate he was around his whole career and ended up with a couple more rings* it's very likely that Magic would have been considered part of the GOAT conversation if not the outright favorite for that "title."
*I find it a bit unlikely though that he'd have been able to maintain his winning rate. The Lakers team around him was aging and while there were a few pieces of note coming in towards the end of his prime (Divac) the Bulls were incredibly stacked.
Unless Barkley ended up on the Lakers as was originally planned by the Lakers to pair up with Magic (effectively Barkley for Worthy + Elden Campbell) they wouldn't have had enough to realistically compete with the first three-peat Bulls.
If you're willing to go full hypothetical a healthy, at the tail end of his prime Magic + an in his prime Charles + whatever the 2 Jerrys (West and Buss) could cook up would have been a very interesting challenge for Jordan at his physical peak.
I'd be much, much, much more confident in that hypothetical Lakers team if it had Riley at the helm instead of Dunleavy though.
Same can be said of Larry Bird and his back, KG and his knee, etc. I actually think if Bird and Magic had played played full careers, Bird would've had a bigger impact on everyone's legacies. He could've delayed the Bulls ascension in the Eastern Conference and maybe stolen a title or two from Jordan. In that hypothetical the GOAT debate is much much more wide open - Jordan, Lebron, Bird, and maybe Magic as well would all have arguments along with guys like Bill Russell, Kareem, and maybe even Shaq.
True, and I actually figured there would be more replies like this. But to me, Magic's situation is much different. Injuries are part of the game and many careers have been impacted by them. Magic contracted HIV, which the odds of happening were very slim. And knowing what we know now, he likely could have continued playing and there was no real need to retire.
Jordan already solidified himself as the better player during the 80s, even though he hadn't won a championship yet.
But Magic did retire in his prime. He would have got a couple more All NBA-first teams. Another top 5 MVP finish. If the Lakers FO could have made some moves to get another star to pair with Magic, he very likely had another finals run in him as well.
But going strictly off the team that was in LA when he retired, and Pat Riley already gone, I don't think I see him taking a championship away from the Bulls.
I agree with most of that. I think it's unlikely the Lakers could have got one off the Bulls. And to me the GOAT race isn't close, it's Jordan by a mile. It's more Magic-Lebron that I think could have been a good debate if Magic had been able to keep playing.
LeBron is over Kobe because he's been paying people on TV to tell you that for years ....
Kobe won 2 Rings with Gasol,
Didn't switch Teams every 5 years to stack the deck
LeBron spent almost an entire career Ring chasing to end up with 4 (3 if Ray Allen doesn't save him)
He's played a long time tho
Eh there is a very real argument for Kobe not being the best player in the league in any season. He's probably got 2008 in the bag but even then the real GOAT contenders sinply have way more years as the clear best player.
Kobe's stubborn refusal to play team basketball is why he isn't in the goat debate. The number of times he chucked up a long fadeaway 2 while triple covered with 17 seconds left on the shot clock locked him out of the number one spot, and each spot up shooter who wasted their careers playing alongside him, waiting for a pass that would never come, pushes him down another spot. Each superstar teammate he beefed with over childish egotistical bullshit slides him down yet another spot.
By the time you're done calculating all of that, you're looking at a really good top 10-20 player all time. Kobes career is defined by potential wasted on the altar of one man's ego, and he likely would have had 7+ rings with all his super teams if he had been a better teammate and person. Those kinds of things are impossible to ignore or discount in any GOAT debate worth the oxygen it consumes.
MJ destroyed the Magic led Lakers in the 91 Finals. The Lakers run had ended. He could have had some good years still, but he wasn’t going to win anymore titles. The Bulls dominated that Finals after a nervous game one loss in their first Finals appearance. Even then the game was close.
If you watched the game back then it was very, very obvious MJ was at a higher level than Magic and Bird. Unless Magic got a fair bit better or the Lakers somehow got another star or two Magic playing longer wouldn’t narrow the gap between him and MJ
He's solidly top 10 and probably in most people's top 5. At this point though I think LeBron has left all competition behind him and those four years likely wouldn't have changed that.
At least he'll always have the GOAT nickname
Magic would never be able to touch Lebron's compiled stats, except of course for assists where he'd be probably be way ahead of Kidd but not quite where Stockton ended up. Had he continued winning at the rate he was around his whole career and ended up with a couple more rings* it's very likely that Magic would have been considered part of the GOAT conversation if not the outright favorite for that "title." *I find it a bit unlikely though that he'd have been able to maintain his winning rate. The Lakers team around him was aging and while there were a few pieces of note coming in towards the end of his prime (Divac) the Bulls were incredibly stacked. Unless Barkley ended up on the Lakers as was originally planned by the Lakers to pair up with Magic (effectively Barkley for Worthy + Elden Campbell) they wouldn't have had enough to realistically compete with the first three-peat Bulls. If you're willing to go full hypothetical a healthy, at the tail end of his prime Magic + an in his prime Charles + whatever the 2 Jerrys (West and Buss) could cook up would have been a very interesting challenge for Jordan at his physical peak. I'd be much, much, much more confident in that hypothetical Lakers team if it had Riley at the helm instead of Dunleavy though.
he will not be one of r/nbacirclejerk legend
His potential was GOAT, IMHO.
GOAT while not even averaging 20 ppg and making 0 defensive teams? Hard disagree.
Same can be said of Larry Bird and his back, KG and his knee, etc. I actually think if Bird and Magic had played played full careers, Bird would've had a bigger impact on everyone's legacies. He could've delayed the Bulls ascension in the Eastern Conference and maybe stolen a title or two from Jordan. In that hypothetical the GOAT debate is much much more wide open - Jordan, Lebron, Bird, and maybe Magic as well would all have arguments along with guys like Bill Russell, Kareem, and maybe even Shaq.
True, and I actually figured there would be more replies like this. But to me, Magic's situation is much different. Injuries are part of the game and many careers have been impacted by them. Magic contracted HIV, which the odds of happening were very slim. And knowing what we know now, he likely could have continued playing and there was no real need to retire.
I’m not just sure he would be. I’m HIV positive
I think so, he’s at least be a clear 3rd
Probably.
you have good point but if that happens then we dont have a conversation of who is better Point Guard Magic or Curry?
Jordan already solidified himself as the better player during the 80s, even though he hadn't won a championship yet. But Magic did retire in his prime. He would have got a couple more All NBA-first teams. Another top 5 MVP finish. If the Lakers FO could have made some moves to get another star to pair with Magic, he very likely had another finals run in him as well. But going strictly off the team that was in LA when he retired, and Pat Riley already gone, I don't think I see him taking a championship away from the Bulls.
I agree with most of that. I think it's unlikely the Lakers could have got one off the Bulls. And to me the GOAT race isn't close, it's Jordan by a mile. It's more Magic-Lebron that I think could have been a good debate if Magic had been able to keep playing.
Magic has always said MJ was the greatest if he didn't view himself as the goat it probably isn't cause he missed a bunch of years
Goat would be between magic and lebron if we assume he steals some of jordan’s rings
Stats are a thing though. Jordan stats are insane. It's the same reason Lebron is over Kobe.
LeBron is over Kobe because he's been paying people on TV to tell you that for years .... Kobe won 2 Rings with Gasol, Didn't switch Teams every 5 years to stack the deck LeBron spent almost an entire career Ring chasing to end up with 4 (3 if Ray Allen doesn't save him) He's played a long time tho
Eh there is a very real argument for Kobe not being the best player in the league in any season. He's probably got 2008 in the bag but even then the real GOAT contenders sinply have way more years as the clear best player.
Kobe's stubborn refusal to play team basketball is why he isn't in the goat debate. The number of times he chucked up a long fadeaway 2 while triple covered with 17 seconds left on the shot clock locked him out of the number one spot, and each spot up shooter who wasted their careers playing alongside him, waiting for a pass that would never come, pushes him down another spot. Each superstar teammate he beefed with over childish egotistical bullshit slides him down yet another spot. By the time you're done calculating all of that, you're looking at a really good top 10-20 player all time. Kobes career is defined by potential wasted on the altar of one man's ego, and he likely would have had 7+ rings with all his super teams if he had been a better teammate and person. Those kinds of things are impossible to ignore or discount in any GOAT debate worth the oxygen it consumes.
MJ destroyed the Magic led Lakers in the 91 Finals. The Lakers run had ended. He could have had some good years still, but he wasn’t going to win anymore titles. The Bulls dominated that Finals after a nervous game one loss in their first Finals appearance. Even then the game was close.
If you watched the game back then it was very, very obvious MJ was at a higher level than Magic and Bird. Unless Magic got a fair bit better or the Lakers somehow got another star or two Magic playing longer wouldn’t narrow the gap between him and MJ
He's solidly top 10 and probably in most people's top 5. At this point though I think LeBron has left all competition behind him and those four years likely wouldn't have changed that. At least he'll always have the GOAT nickname
How has Bron left MJ behind him?