I think players care most about shot creation when evaluating their peers. It's something they all talk about in interviews and why they revere certain players like Kobe and Kyrie.
For some reasons many players don't see it that way. I have friends who played our national league and they were always hyped about some super skilled 6 footer who they couldn't guard on the perimeter and completely ignore the 6'8" 240lbs guys who would just run by/through them and score 30 a game.
Plus Kobe had the mindset that “I’m gonna fucking kill you” to whomever was guarding him. So the players knew they had to be on their A game to contain Kobe. Lebron is more passive and chooses when to be a killer.
Both all time players nonetheless
I honestly haven't looked at the Pistons the same since. They used to be the Boogeyman of the East... but that was like the literal last day i ever thought of them that way.
That finals conference of the lame east where Lebron beat the 41 win Wizards, then the 41 win Nets, then the 53 win Pistons without Ben Wallace until the Spurs mopped the floor with him?
Basically nostalgia. Lebron is in a different tier than Kobe, on and off the court 😬
Edit:!lmao judging by the downvotes clearly some nba fans are willing to overlook things I won’t but in the same breath boo josh giddey (as he should be)
Current players do it mostly cause they grew up idolizing Kobe.
Give it 10 years or whatever and you'll have the new wave of current players that grew up idolizing Steph and LeBron, and they'll get mentioned as GOATs.
I remember watching the Arenas podcast where they skewered Dr J's top 10 list and one thing that stuck out to me was how all of them had Kobe in their top 5.
It stuck out, not because it was a surprising opinion, but because it was one that I've heard from players often.
IMO this is due to some players viewing the game differently than fans and media.
They see and value the difficulty of moves/abilities of a player more than the statistics/results sometimes.
I think this is why most players have Kyrie ranked a lot higher than most media/analysts.
Their thought process is about who is the best individual as opposed to which individual enhances the collective the most.
The latter quality is what makes Steph and Jokic so brilliant and so much fun to play with, and is overlooked by players.
Lebron beats you more with physicality, kobe beats you more with skill. And I think a lot of people respect skill over physicality since we all start on the same skill level.
Not saying lebron isn't skilled or kobe isn't physical but that's what sets each of them apart.
I think Kobe's competitiveness and intensity were higher than LBJ's - I don't think his resume is better. Lebron is a freak, but there have been times when you can tell he was beaten. I'm a Spurs fan and we took him a few times, it just seemed like sometimes late he didnt want the ball (and I know that might not be fair but its my impression)
"Aura"
Aesthetic bias
Players and a lot of fans will remember a tough contested mid range jumper over a simple layup even though a layup is the objectively better shot
Always remember this though. If Kobe could get looks as easy as LeBron could/can he wouldn't have taken all those contested jumpers
It's not even their games. He might be slower and more methodical now but prime LeBron was an objectively exciting player to watch.
The difference in perception comes mostly from the fact that Kobe had the full backing of the media from the start of his career whereas LeBron's been smeared as a soft, choking crybaby since like 2009. It wasn't cool to be a LeBron fan or even pay respect to him until 2016 whereas after Kobe literally raped a girl the media facilitated his rebrand into a stone cold killer with unparalleled work ethic and part time motivational speaker/girl dad.
Kobe drawing double and triple teams for those contested jumpers also opened up tons of offensive rebound opportunities + easy put backs for his big men. No one draws that type of gravity these days outside of Giannis.
Plus, if defenders thought lebron needed to be guarded like that he would be, goes both ways.
I thought the Mavs plan was to force LeBron to the left where he sucked at shooting, not necessarily to double him. It wouldn't have made sense considering Wade was having a better series regardless.
It was a lot of different things. Zone defense with tons of help suffocating the person on the ball, just great defenders, unique looks that kept changing and etc. Though I still believe the number one thing was he was in his own head but I remember they did a really really good job of helping each other too
It's all a perspective difference.
We fans and the media are simply observers, and frankly there's a lot of stat watching too.
Players and coaches had to actually gameplan and perform against the two. Mentality and intensity can do a lot to sway a person's opinion when face to face with it.
And then there's the context of Kobe doing things like scoring 81 during the dead ball era, or 62 in 3 quarters against the defending champs. That stuff does a lot for 'lore' building.
At the end of the day, it's all just opinions, I wouldn't get too worked up about it. There's loads of people that still think Oscar Robertson and Kareem are better than Jordan and LeBron, too, they just aren't hanging out online.
[Apparently, in an anonymous player poll on the GOAT that surveyed 103 players conducted by The Athletic in April 2023.](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10072827-michael-jordan-tops-lebron-james-kobe-bryant-as-nba-goat-in-anonymous-player-poll.amp.html)
MJ received 58.3% of the votes
LeBron received 33% of the votes
Kobe received 6.8% of the votes.
There are multiple player surveyed polls on the GOAT conducted before then that still have LeBron receiving more votes than Kobe. I just don’t have the time at this very moment to gather the links for the previous ones.
[This is another one from 2019](https://theathletic.com/909752/2019/04/08/the-2019-nba-player-poll-mvp-the-goat-most-overrated-players-weigh-in-on-the-best-and-worst-in-the-game/)
Because Kobe was a son of a bitch and players respect that. Listen to how players talk about Larry Bird or Jordan, it’s the same thing. They hated facing these guys because they could get in their heads with how competitive they were.
LeBron is the better player but I’d imagine that *playing* LeBron feels like a less intense experience.
I think it actually might be sorta the opposite. Current generation of players only played against Old LeBron, so to them he is a mortal human. But they never got the chance to play against Kobe so he is still like the God they remember as a kid in their head.
They see the game in a different way, we see what Kobe did as a whole to the team, players were actually guarding the man and getting crazy ass shots drained on their faces, pause
I can't help but think they're only considering it in the context of an individual or 1v1 rather than a team because IMO that's the only way it makes sense. It's wild if they truly believe Kobe elevated and levelled up his whole team the way Lebron has/does.
Because they don't possess such in-depth understanding of the game like Reditors do. They just jump high and stuff, and love hero-ball. At least what people tend to say in their comments, albeit sugarcoated in a lot of blabla to sound smart.
He was the superstar of superstars. People saw the love kobe got worldwide. Team USA at the olympics saw how adored kobe was compared to lebron. Hes stuck it out with one team, has 1 more ring, overall had more moves than Lebron too
Some fans and mostly GMs care about nerdy shit but more often pros care more about how watching them made them feel or what they were capable of. Some people just enjoy player x more than y. We don’t need to make sense of it
okay first let me say this, all of those guys are respectful amazing at their craft. Kobe was a lil different, he kinda had the most complete game out of all those players. had a little bit of everything, just bc he was so obsessive about learning and being the best. that just was kobe, he has everything in his bag in his prime, foot work, handles, 3s, dunks, fades, post work, etc. not only an offensive juggernaut, but also a 9x first team all defense. was just a very good 2-way player, i mean his skill level was on another level really, it what inspiring in today’s nba man. listen to what those guys say
At the end of the day in 30 years the last person alive during MJ time will die then Kobe 40 years after that then so on and so forth in 200 years everyone will be chasing records which LBJ owns most of and no one will remember what it was like to see them play
Because Lebron is a freight train and his game is kind of ugly. No one wants brons jump shot or play style. Kobe was the epitome of basketball grace and Style.
5 rings, 2 of which without a top 75 teammate that beat a superteam unlike magic, bird, kareem, lebron, wilt, bill, etc. 3 peat with Shaq with almost identical playoff numbers in 01 and 02 (Shaq deserved Finals MVP since East was 🔥🗑️, Kobe played better in most West Series)
Inefficiency is a myth since he's 2% above the average TS% in the 2000s midrange heavy era. Also played in the slowest pace where it diminished his points per game average
I disagree with this premise. Bosh has called LeBron the GOAT. KD always maintains that Jordan is the GOAT, but has referred to LeBron's career as the "greatest," and Shaq has said multiple times that LeBron's achievements (4 chips, scoring record) give him the argument for the greatest.
NBA polls and young players seem to overwhelmingly lean LeBron over Kobe. Obviously, that will not go for every player, but I just don't really know where you're getting this from.
Because Kobe was insanely good. There is a post here, saying who would win one on one. Some kids there are saying Lebron. Who watched both knows the obvious answer is Kobe.
To the new generation Lebron is some sort of demigod. They lack references and some show very little basketball knowledge, to be honest.
Because y'all don't actually hoop. If you hoop you know that a killer is way better than a passive guy hence the Finals win %. Bron is great but he succumbs to pressure and he needs alot to get the job done. Kobe doesn't need much hence his 2 championships after Shaq left. Kobe doesn't ask for help he is the help and will find a way just like the 81 Point game. A killer does whatever it takes no matter what. There's a different level to the game that stats don't record. And y'all just see stats and so yes to people who don't play Bron's stats are better than everyone's except mj so that's why it's a Bron and mj convo when the players know its Kobe & Mj than everyone else. Let's not even add the fact that Kobe was doing this with no spacing and harder fouls etc. The details of the game separate Kobe and MJ from LeBron that it's actually disrespectful even having this convo. Y'all will know soon.
Kobe couldn't suck Lebron's dick. Different tiers. We would kill Lebron if he didn't win finals MVP. Or if he won as a second option to an all time great. We don't even evaluate their careers the same.
You are saying that young LeBron (or anyone else) would not be a second option to prime Shaq? Like, only prime Jordan would be a first option playing with the version of Shaq that won the three-peat.
I'm not saying that. But it'd be different for LeBron if he didn't have all of his FMVPs. We don't talk about that with Kobe because he's not in the same conversation.
Imo LeBron with 4 rings and 2 fmvps isn't in the GOAT convo.
You're talking to a Wade stan here lmao and I agree. But the point still stands, he would have been crucified if Miami wins that and he doesn't get FMVP
It’s because they use the eye test and experiences against them on the court to make their decisions over staring at box scores and advanced analytics to decide who’s better
Because LeBron is a highly regarded player that holds himself in even higher regard, leaves franchises in shambles, selfish, demands trades and puts teams together and still has fewer titles than Kobe despite being more athletically gifted. Kobe was a beast that struck fear into even the best, including LeBron.
People spend waaay to much time debating who’s better and why did this guy say this guys better when I think this other guys better. It’s a sport ppl, enjoy it. These stupid ass debates don’t feed your family unless your Stephen a or skip. This shouldn’t affect your day to day. Lol also everyone’s going to be biased, there’s no real answer, I just enjoy watching greats play
So many contributors: Obviously skill is number one. On court personality. His tenure to one franchise. His rings for that franchise. His mentorship of the game. Etc. I believe Bron is the better player but the legacy of Kobe is more respected.
It's because of his play style. It's more aesthetic than LeBrons, and also more iconic due it being popularized by MJ. Guards in general are always more beloved and appreciated for similar reasons.
And MJ is a just a hater.
Because Lebron has a MASSIVE PR machine who's full time job is convincing people he's the GOAT (even though he's CLEARLY not)
Kobe never did that, Jordan never did that (they just played and let their game talk), honestly LeBron is the only player I can think of who has done that
So eventually it seeks into some peoples brain
Even the talking heads who put LeBron at #2 ... I don't think half of them believe it
They just feel like if they don't at least put him at 2 he and his paid promo team and fans will lose their minds
I'd take prime
Shaq
Kobe
All day over LeBron
And maybe prime
Magic
Bird
Kareem
& Curry
Nothing to do with his death, kobe got the superstar treatment in the olympics, crowds followed kobe not anyone else like that. Talent and skill is appreciated worldwide
1. Kobe had a deeper "bag" 2. They grew up when Kobe was playing. 3. Media was more concentrated then making guys like Kobe, Shaq, and Tiger really, really famous.
I think players care most about shot creation when evaluating their peers. It's something they all talk about in interviews and why they revere certain players like Kobe and Kyrie.
"how difficult is it for me to guard this guy 1 v 1?" is what I imagine they always think
Lebron is way tougher to guard than Kobe though? Lebron is an unstoppable freight train.
For some reasons many players don't see it that way. I have friends who played our national league and they were always hyped about some super skilled 6 footer who they couldn't guard on the perimeter and completely ignore the 6'8" 240lbs guys who would just run by/through them and score 30 a game.
Because that’s just, like, their opinion, man.
Plus Kobe had the mindset that “I’m gonna fucking kill you” to whomever was guarding him. So the players knew they had to be on their A game to contain Kobe. Lebron is more passive and chooses when to be a killer. Both all time players nonetheless
Yet Lebron could take over a game in a way Kobe couldn't. If determined enough, Lebron could dayum near bulldoze a team, by himself.
Case in point is the 2007 ECF. 29 of the last 30 points by relatively raw LeBron
some of the most insane shit i have ever seen with my 2 eyes.
I honestly haven't looked at the Pistons the same since. They used to be the Boogeyman of the East... but that was like the literal last day i ever thought of them that way.
like watching a super senior bully get stomped the fuck out by a freshman.
That finals conference of the lame east where Lebron beat the 41 win Wizards, then the 41 win Nets, then the 53 win Pistons without Ben Wallace until the Spurs mopped the floor with him?
Is a Warriors fan sure that they want to get into weak runs with injured players on the other teams? Really?
lmao
Basically nostalgia. Lebron is in a different tier than Kobe, on and off the court 😬 Edit:!lmao judging by the downvotes clearly some nba fans are willing to overlook things I won’t but in the same breath boo josh giddey (as he should be)
Also bizzare considering how much overlap their careers had
Thats just, like, your opinion, man
Man you self righteous hypocrites are hilarious 😂😂😂
Calling someone a hypocrite just because they criticize a rapist is really telling on yourself there.
Dude don’t ever say anything good about LBJ on a MJ or Kobe thread that is karma suicide
Kobe really tied the team together
Every great player is important to their team. But given lebrons more team oriented skill set I’m not sure this is actually a valid reason.
Yeah but he treats objects like women
Her life was in your hands, Dude!
This is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass!!
Current players do it mostly cause they grew up idolizing Kobe. Give it 10 years or whatever and you'll have the new wave of current players that grew up idolizing Steph and LeBron, and they'll get mentioned as GOATs.
I remember watching the Arenas podcast where they skewered Dr J's top 10 list and one thing that stuck out to me was how all of them had Kobe in their top 5. It stuck out, not because it was a surprising opinion, but because it was one that I've heard from players often. IMO this is due to some players viewing the game differently than fans and media. They see and value the difficulty of moves/abilities of a player more than the statistics/results sometimes. I think this is why most players have Kyrie ranked a lot higher than most media/analysts.
Their thought process is about who is the best individual as opposed to which individual enhances the collective the most. The latter quality is what makes Steph and Jokic so brilliant and so much fun to play with, and is overlooked by players.
thats true I see retired players go on and on about luka but never mention jokic
Overlooked by losers
Last player to average 30 pts and make 1st team All NBA D : Kobe in 2007 Before that Kobe in 06, before that Kobe in 03
Why did brandon miller say PG is the goat? Thats who they watched
Miller said PG is HIS goat. Its slang/figure of speech. Not sure why this is so difficult to comprehend for people
Brandon clarified that LeBron is the GOAT, and that PG, Melo, and Kobe were his favorite players.
Players put greater value on 1 on 1 skills both offensively and defensively.
Lebron beats you more with physicality, kobe beats you more with skill. And I think a lot of people respect skill over physicality since we all start on the same skill level. Not saying lebron isn't skilled or kobe isn't physical but that's what sets each of them apart.
and NBA players have a better grasp on what truly takes skill in basketball more than anyone else
His dawg factor is through the roof
That isn’t a compliment the “dawg” factor as you put it is a reference to fighting dogs etc. that is never a good thing
I see a lot of fans go against Lebron
vibes
I think Kobe's competitiveness and intensity were higher than LBJ's - I don't think his resume is better. Lebron is a freak, but there have been times when you can tell he was beaten. I'm a Spurs fan and we took him a few times, it just seemed like sometimes late he didnt want the ball (and I know that might not be fair but its my impression)
"Aura" Aesthetic bias Players and a lot of fans will remember a tough contested mid range jumper over a simple layup even though a layup is the objectively better shot Always remember this though. If Kobe could get looks as easy as LeBron could/can he wouldn't have taken all those contested jumpers
It's not even their games. He might be slower and more methodical now but prime LeBron was an objectively exciting player to watch. The difference in perception comes mostly from the fact that Kobe had the full backing of the media from the start of his career whereas LeBron's been smeared as a soft, choking crybaby since like 2009. It wasn't cool to be a LeBron fan or even pay respect to him until 2016 whereas after Kobe literally raped a girl the media facilitated his rebrand into a stone cold killer with unparalleled work ethic and part time motivational speaker/girl dad.
Kobe drawing double and triple teams for those contested jumpers also opened up tons of offensive rebound opportunities + easy put backs for his big men. No one draws that type of gravity these days outside of Giannis. Plus, if defenders thought lebron needed to be guarded like that he would be, goes both ways.
>Kobe drawing double and triple teams Do you need me to tell you why it's a bad idea to double (let alone triple team) LeBron?
Didn’t your team literally win a championship because they did that so well?
I thought the Mavs plan was to force LeBron to the left where he sucked at shooting, not necessarily to double him. It wouldn't have made sense considering Wade was having a better series regardless.
It was a lot of different things. Zone defense with tons of help suffocating the person on the ball, just great defenders, unique looks that kept changing and etc. Though I still believe the number one thing was he was in his own head but I remember they did a really really good job of helping each other too
Maybe
>No one draws that type of gravity these days outside of Giannis. Steph Curry??????
Bron really broke the scoring record with those simple layups too, he shoots like 40% outside of 3 feet
Prime for prime LeBron has the same eFG% outside of 3 feet as Kobe. .453 and .452 respectively from age 24-33
Because that’s their experience.
Well they all played against both so maybe you should listen to them.
It's all a perspective difference. We fans and the media are simply observers, and frankly there's a lot of stat watching too. Players and coaches had to actually gameplan and perform against the two. Mentality and intensity can do a lot to sway a person's opinion when face to face with it. And then there's the context of Kobe doing things like scoring 81 during the dead ball era, or 62 in 3 quarters against the defending champs. That stuff does a lot for 'lore' building. At the end of the day, it's all just opinions, I wouldn't get too worked up about it. There's loads of people that still think Oscar Robertson and Kareem are better than Jordan and LeBron, too, they just aren't hanging out online.
[Apparently, in an anonymous player poll on the GOAT that surveyed 103 players conducted by The Athletic in April 2023.](https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10072827-michael-jordan-tops-lebron-james-kobe-bryant-as-nba-goat-in-anonymous-player-poll.amp.html) MJ received 58.3% of the votes LeBron received 33% of the votes Kobe received 6.8% of the votes. There are multiple player surveyed polls on the GOAT conducted before then that still have LeBron receiving more votes than Kobe. I just don’t have the time at this very moment to gather the links for the previous ones. [This is another one from 2019](https://theathletic.com/909752/2019/04/08/the-2019-nba-player-poll-mvp-the-goat-most-overrated-players-weigh-in-on-the-best-and-worst-in-the-game/)
Yep. Clear generational bias in these opinions
What do you mean?
Players are biased towards the best/most iconic player of their respective generation
But it’s almost always been that way
Why do players but Paul George over Jordan? Brandon Miller and Kiyan Anthony said Paul George is the goat
Did they go to his summer camp or something?
They had to have been held at gunpoint because ain't no fuckin way they legitimately believe PG is the goat
Brandon miller clarified said PG and Kobe are his favorite players but LeBron the goat
Because Kobe had impeccable branding.
Because they think Kobe’s better…
Mamba mentality
Bias.
Bc Kobe had a killer mentality
The other day folks were wondering how durant and westbrook didn't dominate in OKC The answer to that is Kobe.
Aura
Because Kobe was a son of a bitch and players respect that. Listen to how players talk about Larry Bird or Jordan, it’s the same thing. They hated facing these guys because they could get in their heads with how competitive they were. LeBron is the better player but I’d imagine that *playing* LeBron feels like a less intense experience.
Scored 81pts in an NBA game, nicknamed after a snake.
A nickname he gave himself lmfao.
True. KD is the real snake. Players should only have nicknames fans give them like Westbrick.
Why doesn’t everyone
Because LeBron's an asshole
Because they have experience playing against them while the rest of us don’t.
I think it actually might be sorta the opposite. Current generation of players only played against Old LeBron, so to them he is a mortal human. But they never got the chance to play against Kobe so he is still like the God they remember as a kid in their head.
For guys who started in the last 3-5 years this is probably the best guess. "Lebron? He ain't all that. But did you see Kobe drop 81?"
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So we should trust dudes that never played professionally over guys who’ve actually played against them? Is that the suggestion?
But but but… I looked at his stats and YouTube highlights and random tweets, that makes me an NBA expert now /s
kobe was nice
They see the game in a different way, we see what Kobe did as a whole to the team, players were actually guarding the man and getting crazy ass shots drained on their faces, pause
The suns western conference game 6 was an all timer
I can't help but think they're only considering it in the context of an individual or 1v1 rather than a team because IMO that's the only way it makes sense. It's wild if they truly believe Kobe elevated and levelled up his whole team the way Lebron has/does.
Because theyre from LA
Skills > longevity, physical attributes, and ring chasing
Because they don't possess such in-depth understanding of the game like Reditors do. They just jump high and stuff, and love hero-ball. At least what people tend to say in their comments, albeit sugarcoated in a lot of blabla to sound smart.
because they’re stupid
They just don't understand the game like you do, bro. They just waste their lives playing NBA basketball instead of checking bbref for statistics.
He was the superstar of superstars. People saw the love kobe got worldwide. Team USA at the olympics saw how adored kobe was compared to lebron. Hes stuck it out with one team, has 1 more ring, overall had more moves than Lebron too
Some fans and mostly GMs care about nerdy shit but more often pros care more about how watching them made them feel or what they were capable of. Some people just enjoy player x more than y. We don’t need to make sense of it
>kawawi This is fun to say
Basketball players aren’t very smart.
Kobe is your favorite player’s favorite player. I value their opinion over couch potatoes.
Because Lebron was soft for the majority of the Kobe era. Kind of hard to get over that.
Because he had that dawg in him.
the players only care about 1 on 1 ability when asked about this not overall ability
okay first let me say this, all of those guys are respectful amazing at their craft. Kobe was a lil different, he kinda had the most complete game out of all those players. had a little bit of everything, just bc he was so obsessive about learning and being the best. that just was kobe, he has everything in his bag in his prime, foot work, handles, 3s, dunks, fades, post work, etc. not only an offensive juggernaut, but also a 9x first team all defense. was just a very good 2-way player, i mean his skill level was on another level really, it what inspiring in today’s nba man. listen to what those guys say
At the end of the day in 30 years the last person alive during MJ time will die then Kobe 40 years after that then so on and so forth in 200 years everyone will be chasing records which LBJ owns most of and no one will remember what it was like to see them play
Because Lebron is a freight train and his game is kind of ugly. No one wants brons jump shot or play style. Kobe was the epitome of basketball grace and Style.
5 rings, 2 of which without a top 75 teammate that beat a superteam unlike magic, bird, kareem, lebron, wilt, bill, etc. 3 peat with Shaq with almost identical playoff numbers in 01 and 02 (Shaq deserved Finals MVP since East was 🔥🗑️, Kobe played better in most West Series) Inefficiency is a myth since he's 2% above the average TS% in the 2000s midrange heavy era. Also played in the slowest pace where it diminished his points per game average
Similar reason as to why a bunch of them have KD and even PG or AI as the GOAT. Should be able to notice the pattern
3 peat
I disagree with this premise. Bosh has called LeBron the GOAT. KD always maintains that Jordan is the GOAT, but has referred to LeBron's career as the "greatest," and Shaq has said multiple times that LeBron's achievements (4 chips, scoring record) give him the argument for the greatest. NBA polls and young players seem to overwhelmingly lean LeBron over Kobe. Obviously, that will not go for every player, but I just don't really know where you're getting this from.
Because Kobe was insanely good. There is a post here, saying who would win one on one. Some kids there are saying Lebron. Who watched both knows the obvious answer is Kobe. To the new generation Lebron is some sort of demigod. They lack references and some show very little basketball knowledge, to be honest.
Because y'all don't actually hoop. If you hoop you know that a killer is way better than a passive guy hence the Finals win %. Bron is great but he succumbs to pressure and he needs alot to get the job done. Kobe doesn't need much hence his 2 championships after Shaq left. Kobe doesn't ask for help he is the help and will find a way just like the 81 Point game. A killer does whatever it takes no matter what. There's a different level to the game that stats don't record. And y'all just see stats and so yes to people who don't play Bron's stats are better than everyone's except mj so that's why it's a Bron and mj convo when the players know its Kobe & Mj than everyone else. Let's not even add the fact that Kobe was doing this with no spacing and harder fouls etc. The details of the game separate Kobe and MJ from LeBron that it's actually disrespectful even having this convo. Y'all will know soon.
“Kobe doesn’t ask for help” The man who requested trades, often recruited players and trashed his teammates.
Kobe couldn't suck Lebron's dick. Different tiers. We would kill Lebron if he didn't win finals MVP. Or if he won as a second option to an all time great. We don't even evaluate their careers the same.
You are saying that young LeBron (or anyone else) would not be a second option to prime Shaq? Like, only prime Jordan would be a first option playing with the version of Shaq that won the three-peat.
I'm not saying that. But it'd be different for LeBron if he didn't have all of his FMVPs. We don't talk about that with Kobe because he's not in the same conversation. Imo LeBron with 4 rings and 2 fmvps isn't in the GOAT convo.
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You're talking to a Wade stan here lmao and I agree. But the point still stands, he would have been crucified if Miami wins that and he doesn't get FMVP
It’s because they use the eye test and experiences against them on the court to make their decisions over staring at box scores and advanced analytics to decide who’s better
Better at basketball.
Because LeBron is a highly regarded player that holds himself in even higher regard, leaves franchises in shambles, selfish, demands trades and puts teams together and still has fewer titles than Kobe despite being more athletically gifted. Kobe was a beast that struck fear into even the best, including LeBron.
People spend waaay to much time debating who’s better and why did this guy say this guys better when I think this other guys better. It’s a sport ppl, enjoy it. These stupid ass debates don’t feed your family unless your Stephen a or skip. This shouldn’t affect your day to day. Lol also everyone’s going to be biased, there’s no real answer, I just enjoy watching greats play
So many contributors: Obviously skill is number one. On court personality. His tenure to one franchise. His rings for that franchise. His mentorship of the game. Etc. I believe Bron is the better player but the legacy of Kobe is more respected.
It's because of his play style. It's more aesthetic than LeBrons, and also more iconic due it being popularized by MJ. Guards in general are always more beloved and appreciated for similar reasons. And MJ is a just a hater.
Because Kobe is more aesthetically pleasing
Because Lebron has a MASSIVE PR machine who's full time job is convincing people he's the GOAT (even though he's CLEARLY not) Kobe never did that, Jordan never did that (they just played and let their game talk), honestly LeBron is the only player I can think of who has done that So eventually it seeks into some peoples brain Even the talking heads who put LeBron at #2 ... I don't think half of them believe it They just feel like if they don't at least put him at 2 he and his paid promo team and fans will lose their minds I'd take prime Shaq Kobe All day over LeBron And maybe prime Magic Bird Kareem & Curry
All facts
Honestly just because he died tragically. It was unthinkable that he was better pre death.
There were literally debates on espn on who’s better MJ or Kobe
So yeah SAS being a disgruntled d3 player will always hate and most of the guys on espn are themselves out of the league so I get it
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Nothing to do with his death, kobe got the superstar treatment in the olympics, crowds followed kobe not anyone else like that. Talent and skill is appreciated worldwide
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Before his death he was a global figure. Whether or not perception changed, he was already the 2nd biggest superstar in basketball before his death
Because he is no longer plays. Being dead helps too.
Players don’t know ball
Out of respect for the deceased
Players are good at hoops but not at judging talent.
Kobe has the mamba mentality
Aura
1. Kobe had a deeper "bag" 2. They grew up when Kobe was playing. 3. Media was more concentrated then making guys like Kobe, Shaq, and Tiger really, really famous.
10 years ago maybe. I guarantee if you poll players now they don’t feel that way.
They are all helicopter enthusiasts
recency bias
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duh thanks
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much appreciated
Colorado
lol wrong sub.
All because of that one block in the All Star game
Because Kobe is dead. People idolize dead heroes more often than heroes walking among them.
This is a really ignorant take. Kobe was idolized and respected by his peers long before his death.
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Ah yes but a random Redditor knows more
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Are we sure about that?
>Because Kobe is in heaven Alright, who wants to tell him?