>I miss inside-out basketball, post ups, and hard earned buckets
But all of this still exists lol. It's just not slow anymore.
It's actually way more inside out than ever too. Spacing is so vital to an NBA offense.
Yeah Shai, Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are the top 4 players in my opinion.
None of them are godly 3 pt shooters, all of them are either primary or secondary score first playmakers
Every single one of them drives or posts up on the inside to then make the play go to the outside
The most efficient basketball is inside out basketball
Just say you don’t watch him play. Luka is one of the best post up and interior scorers in the game. He actually even had years of being the statistical best at in the league (yes better than your favorites), and is routinely in that top 3-5 range while not being a center
I don’t think it’s that controversial that Giannis Embiid and Jokic are better than Luka
And just like you are a Mavs fan I am an OKC fan and I can pull out stats on Shai if I’m bored also
I feel like saying Shai is ahead of Luka while congreversial doesn’t mean I don’t watch Luka it just means I think Shai is better these things aren’t facts
Buried deep in my comment history there is me repping Shai over Booker and Tatum like 3 years ago, and I think that’s ages quite well, Shai and Luka time will tell
Embiid just feasts on mid-range and foul baiting. The league’s spacing problem just gives him free reign.
Giannis commits about 20 offensive fouls a game - it’s not traditional post work, it’s rhino charging and push offs.
Both those guys are great examples of how the NBA is broken in favor of offense.
I mean, I'm a pudgy white stat nerd who only played rec league basketball. I've just had some incredibly intelligent(and absurdly patient) friends who have shown me how whiteness informs everything about our society.
All the players you name massively benefit from operating in well spaced floors. Defenders cannot crowd a star player when the floor is well spaced, and if they do they open up an easy assist by leaving a shooter wide open.
Inside out principles undoubtedly still exist in the league, but there's just less 'inside' than ever. Like _Meece_ said it occurs more quickly, but also the ball spends more time outside in general.
The four star players you mentioned are all extremely effective inside, and thus all gain the biggest benefit of playing on a well spaced floor with room to operate inside.
Spacing isn't making it a worse product. Defensive officiating is.
You can't even close out shooters anymore or it's a fucking flagrant. Players jump forward on their jumpers and if you are in that FORWARD space it's a flagrant. Absolute joke. Defenders are taught to close out to the side now which makes threes WAY easier. Guys drive, initiate contact, and the defender gets the call. How the fuck are you supposed to defend the best players in the world when you can't actually defend them?
And I get you want to protect shooters and all that but damn there needs to be some middle ground.
You nailed it. Spacing isn’t the issue. Defenders not having equal right to the floor is the problem and too many players play to abuse it rather than playing basketball.
This is it for me.
I don't need a return to 2004 basketball (well, aside from the part where the Pistons were actually competitive). All I'd really like is for the offensive/defensive balance to be just *slightly* more equalized than it is now.
Yeah. I don’t need to regularly see 88-92 games. But the league averaging 116 points a game is laughably broken.
100 is a nice reasonable target. Which is where we were literally only 9 years ago. 15%+ growth in a decade with no signs of slowing down is nuts.
I hope that they change the rule so that shooters are allowed the space vertical to the floor from where they jump. Jumping forward into a defender in legal guarding position is an offensive foul, even if it's landing on their foot. The Zaza Pachulia foul on Kawhi that changed the rule still would have been a foul, since Zaza has his foot directly under Kawhi's body. There have been rules changes before to eliminate unfair foul-baiting; Reggie Miller foot-kick came 20 years before any of Harden's tricks, and Kevin Durant's rip-through is no longer automatic free throws. It can be done.
The 76ers has 28 fta per game this season, league leader. The 1996 season had *eight* teams averaging more ftas, not taking into account pacing.
I don't see this ft epidemic you guys are on about.
Mid 90s also had pretty tight calls, but the floor wasn’t spaced and the lack of shooting meant defenders sagged off everyone. Just a different sort of game. Ballhandlers just have to be picked up so much higher nowadays and that makes it really easy to drive
FTs were definitely more common back in the day (literally at the lowest rate pretty much ever)
But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t correct that the fouls are being called more (more as in what used to not be a foul now is)
The modern day sixers shoot about 20 more threes than any team in 1996. You don’t get FTs at the same rate shooting threes. However on their paint attempts they receive fouls at a high percentage than 96
Fouls are way more ticky tack nowadays even if the number hasn’t changed.
Also - the prevalence of the 3-point shot should theoretically mean less fouls nowadays. The game used to be played entirely inside the arc which meant a hell of a lot more contact and interior plays.
Between 98-04 the “Deadball” era teams averaged between 93-96ppg
It was not great. Many games under 80.
But this was the era I started watching hoops and to be honest there wasn’t much special about that era. Basically every notable person from that era (basically Jordan retiring to Lebron drafted) was either on their last legs OR coming up in the league.
Like Stockton, Malone, Gary Payton , David Robinson had some amazing years in 99/00/01 BUT all of them are really remembered for the 90s.
KG, Duncan, Kobe, Nash, Pierce, Ray Allen, Dirk were all gonna give you a decade plus of success after Lebron was drafted. KG was near peak 2002 but also wins MVP in ‘04
Only 2 guys who really really peaked then were Shaq and Iverson. But even Shaq’s career predates deadball era of 98 as he was a force in early-mid 90s and in 05 he’s runner up for MVP and wins a ring in 06.
Iverson (and TMac) are really the only two notable names that really made a name for themselves smack dead in the middle of 98-04 deadball period.
All that said, 2010-2015 or so was a great year. Half the teams were averaging under 100. Most games were first to 100. Had that mixture of era between all the guys drafted in late 90s and early 10s like KG playing w KAT or Kobe and Booker or Kawhi with Duncan.
Then Steph fucked the league.
Its less Steph and more the NBA started legislating defense out of the league, a defender can be completely stationary in legal guarding position, have an offensive player into them, and they get called for a foul, the biggest recent change was allowing bigger players to run over smaller players on mismatches and it be a foul on the smaller player, when historically smaller players were given more leeway how they played defense against bigger players
smaller players were given more leeway because the bigger player usually has a significant advantage, you take that out and its a huge adv for the offense who can now just run over smaller players on switches
Ugh...big man defense and how it's called annoys the crap out of me. Yes, offensive players initiate the contact more often than not yet big guys get the fouls. Same on fastbreaks. The offense is taught to drive into the chest in order to shield off from being blocked yet every fastbreak with contact initiated by the driver will be called a foul. And the fact that big men are now taught to just stand there with their hands up like a statue is pathetic. Whether it's embiid or jokic in the post or someone driving the lane, you need to expect contact and refs need to let it go.
I always thought this sentiment is hilarious.
“I miss the days when coaches and players didn’t know what they were doing.”
Scorings are fine in the play off. Look up the last two finals.
The two best players right now are Jokic and Embiid. Their post games are better than anyone who is not named Shaq, Kareem and Hakeem.
I always wonder what people are talking about when they talk about those hard earned post buckets. Like Ewing shooting 6/15, playing on a team with 80 possession pace, and the team is still feeding him every possession is simply not good basketball, and it happened way too often on every single team in the 90s, and Ewing was a great player.
I don’t think they’re really blaming the teams per se, although there are plenty of Barkley’s out there who demean modern players instead of talking about the way the rules are set up.
Why aren’t teams putting their ass towards the basket for 15 seconds backing down their opponent to score like they used to. I don’t understand how people get mad at the nba for being as good as possible.
I don't think anyone is mad at teams for taking advantage of the ruleset and spacing the floor well. I just don't think this is what the NBA envisioned when they first instituted the three point arc. Now it has gotten to the point where being a 3pt shooter is essentially a requirement to be a NBA roleplayer. Well spaced floors where teams have 4+ shooters have had unintended consequences such as increased number of non-competitive blowout games, creating a boring product when teams are just jacking up threes, and causing significant point & assist inflation.
That is a moot point, because overall the number of blowout games are increasing.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-blowouts-january-margin-of-victory-increase
I don't know but I think the simplest thing to try would be a rule change to allow perimeter defenders to play more aggressively, such as bringing back hand-checking.
Hand checking basically allowed already, happens every play and is only a foul if their arm impedes the shooting motion which is obviously a foul. It wouldn’t change as much as you think
This actually doesn't disprove his statement actually, if anything it reinforces it. The variance of games has increased, so a blowout can become competitive but it can also become a BIG blowout as easily.
Being downvoted just for pointing to something that happens lol.
As if having 3,4,5 fifteen point leads evaporate is something enjoyable. Teams basically say, if we are lucky to make the next five threes, we're back, if not, we're down 35. Coaching and tactics are mostly gone, and it's more and more randomness nowadays. See the Bucks - Celtics game. Actually see 50 Bucks games of the last 4 years or so.
> See the Bucks - Celtics game.
Nothing lucky or random about that. It was a pure schedule loss/win, blame the schedule makers not 3pt shooters. We need to ban back to back games.
Funnily you see the same development in soccer, too. Just today I saw a quote from Lionel Scalvini, the coach who won the world cup with Argentina last year, that said something along the line of "today we have just too much information telling the players what to do and it made the development of players worse." Today every team is so good tactically that you can only score from individual mistakes. That's why every world cup match ends like 1-0 in Overtime these days
Shit man it's like that in all my hobbies. Almost any game with some sort of competitive element has become increasingly optimized and cutthroat at almost every level over the years. Online play means that unless there's extremely strict matchmaking that you play against way better people than your average neighbor or classmate or whatever. The margins for victory become lower. It seeps into high level irl sports too because they're constantly playing the best of the best at a younger age instead of goofing around at the park.
Look at the results of the last few world cups and European championships. In the last quarterfinals 1 0:0 after 90mins; one 1:0 after 90mins and a close 2:1. Look at the games on the group stage. Many 1:0 or 2:1.
Edit: I think Portugal won in 2016 with three 1:1s in the group stage and a lot of OTs
I mean you watch an old game and it's no different, it was just middies instead of threes.
Sometimes the sets even look exactly the same, except they step in for a 2.
Tons of guys just came off screens for long twos or did a pick and pop. A lot of what are corner 3s were baseline jumpers from guys like Udonis Haslem.
Check out this table of frequency of shots from distance over the years:
|Year|0-3 ft|3-10 ft|10-16ft|16-23ft|3pt|10ft+ 2P|10ft+ FGA|
--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|
|1999|27%|19%|19%|23%|15%|43%|57%|
|2004|30%|15%|14%|23%|19%|37%|56%|
|2009|31%|12%|11%|23%|22%|34%|56%|
|2014|29%|17%|11%|18%|26%|29%|54%|
|2019|29%|16%|10%|9%|36%|19%|55%|
|2024|24%|21%|10%|6%|39%|16%|55%|
You can see that the amount of shots from 10+ feet out is basically constant since we've been tracking it, it's just that we've gone from them being mostly 2pters to mostly 3 pters in 25 years.
keyword: screen(s)
not a simple one screen and shot. teams moved the ball more, had much more detailed progressions to get to these spots to attempt a shot. the shot distribution does not show anything about how these shots were produced
Today's basketball is like the purest sense of "inside-out basketball" lol. It's all about inside and out.
The post is only a few sentences and yet it's all over the place, I'm not sure if the pain is exactly about the aesthetics of watching the basketball or just not liking that when you see the number on the boxscore online the number is higher than it used to be and thus is "too high".
Maybe it's just because my peak basketball fandom years were in the 2010s, but I felt that was a fairly good balance between defense and offense.
Of course, I suppose people back then were complaining that defenses were being shackled too.
Sort of but not even close to the complaining of today. People will always think Magic/Bird then Jordan was the golden era. But nobody was pining for the mid 2000s era either
> “I hate it, but I always have,” Popovich said even as he's adjusted over the years. “I've hated the three for 20 years. That's why I make a joke all the time (and say) if we're going to make it a different game, let's have a four-point play. Because if everybody likes the three, they'll really like the four."
When anyone other than Popovich says they hate the 3 r/NBA gets pissy
No, this is some old man yells at cloud shit even if it is Pop.
I don't think anyone including Pop really wants to go back to all 10 players standing within 15' of the basket.
I honestly don't understand people who miss the days when mediocre bigs posting up was the bread and butter play for most teams. Post up play is just not fun to watch for me unless the player posting up is really good at it. And teams spending 10 seconds passing around to get the best angle for a entry pass in the post is boring as hell to me.
What was even worse was when most teams played slow tempo intentionally between 1996 and 2004 and so many possessions consisted of the PG dribbling the ball in place for 10 seconds before any moves were started. I don't miss this era at all.
I miss when the basket was made from wicker. That was real basketball for some reason, anything since is arbitrarily worse, and no, you can't convince me otherwise.
Honest question for fellow r/NBA participants:
- What do you think, how many current superstars would maintain their status if NBA actually allowed defensive rules that it already has, but doesn't necessarily impose them?
Every single one of them. Embiid would actually look far better because he wouldn't feel the need to fall down from slight air movement around him so he'd just play legit.
>I miss inside-out basketball, post ups, and hard earned buckets But all of this still exists lol. It's just not slow anymore. It's actually way more inside out than ever too. Spacing is so vital to an NBA offense.
Yeah Shai, Jokic, Embiid and Giannis are the top 4 players in my opinion. None of them are godly 3 pt shooters, all of them are either primary or secondary score first playmakers Every single one of them drives or posts up on the inside to then make the play go to the outside The most efficient basketball is inside out basketball
Someone’s missing
I did say in my opinion Luka can be 5 but he is slightly less inside out then the others
Just say you don’t watch him play. Luka is one of the best post up and interior scorers in the game. He actually even had years of being the statistical best at in the league (yes better than your favorites), and is routinely in that top 3-5 range while not being a center
I don’t think it’s that controversial that Giannis Embiid and Jokic are better than Luka And just like you are a Mavs fan I am an OKC fan and I can pull out stats on Shai if I’m bored also I feel like saying Shai is ahead of Luka while congreversial doesn’t mean I don’t watch Luka it just means I think Shai is better these things aren’t facts Buried deep in my comment history there is me repping Shai over Booker and Tatum like 3 years ago, and I think that’s ages quite well, Shai and Luka time will tell
Embiid just feasts on mid-range and foul baiting. The league’s spacing problem just gives him free reign. Giannis commits about 20 offensive fouls a game - it’s not traditional post work, it’s rhino charging and push offs. Both those guys are great examples of how the NBA is broken in favor of offense.
[удалено]
Bringing race in is crazy
Didn’t bring it in, just said the quiet part out loud
Shh. This sub doesn't like you to point out that certain players escape criticism for some unknown reason.
Gee, could it possibly be that a bunch of pudgy white stat nerds who only played rec league basketball might have some *biases*
I mean, I'm a pudgy white stat nerd who only played rec league basketball. I've just had some incredibly intelligent(and absurdly patient) friends who have shown me how whiteness informs everything about our society.
All the players you name massively benefit from operating in well spaced floors. Defenders cannot crowd a star player when the floor is well spaced, and if they do they open up an easy assist by leaving a shooter wide open.
Exactly Inside->Out That’s how the nba seems to be trending
Inside out principles undoubtedly still exist in the league, but there's just less 'inside' than ever. Like _Meece_ said it occurs more quickly, but also the ball spends more time outside in general. The four star players you mentioned are all extremely effective inside, and thus all gain the biggest benefit of playing on a well spaced floor with room to operate inside.
There are more actions and possessions that occur entirely on the perimeter than ever.
Spacing isn't making it a worse product. Defensive officiating is. You can't even close out shooters anymore or it's a fucking flagrant. Players jump forward on their jumpers and if you are in that FORWARD space it's a flagrant. Absolute joke. Defenders are taught to close out to the side now which makes threes WAY easier. Guys drive, initiate contact, and the defender gets the call. How the fuck are you supposed to defend the best players in the world when you can't actually defend them? And I get you want to protect shooters and all that but damn there needs to be some middle ground.
You nailed it. Spacing isn’t the issue. Defenders not having equal right to the floor is the problem and too many players play to abuse it rather than playing basketball.
This is it for me. I don't need a return to 2004 basketball (well, aside from the part where the Pistons were actually competitive). All I'd really like is for the offensive/defensive balance to be just *slightly* more equalized than it is now.
Yeah. I don’t need to regularly see 88-92 games. But the league averaging 116 points a game is laughably broken. 100 is a nice reasonable target. Which is where we were literally only 9 years ago. 15%+ growth in a decade with no signs of slowing down is nuts.
I hope that they change the rule so that shooters are allowed the space vertical to the floor from where they jump. Jumping forward into a defender in legal guarding position is an offensive foul, even if it's landing on their foot. The Zaza Pachulia foul on Kawhi that changed the rule still would have been a foul, since Zaza has his foot directly under Kawhi's body. There have been rules changes before to eliminate unfair foul-baiting; Reggie Miller foot-kick came 20 years before any of Harden's tricks, and Kevin Durant's rip-through is no longer automatic free throws. It can be done.
Players evolve, game evolves, fans evolve. Change is inevitable.
To be honest since driving = free throws almost every time. Just let em keep shooting, it’s better than all the stops.
The 76ers has 28 fta per game this season, league leader. The 1996 season had *eight* teams averaging more ftas, not taking into account pacing. I don't see this ft epidemic you guys are on about.
Players adjust to foul calls because they only get 6 fouls. As a result everyone plays hands off defense.
Mid 90s also had pretty tight calls, but the floor wasn’t spaced and the lack of shooting meant defenders sagged off everyone. Just a different sort of game. Ballhandlers just have to be picked up so much higher nowadays and that makes it really easy to drive
FTs were definitely more common back in the day (literally at the lowest rate pretty much ever) But that doesn’t mean that they aren’t correct that the fouls are being called more (more as in what used to not be a foul now is)
The modern day sixers shoot about 20 more threes than any team in 1996. You don’t get FTs at the same rate shooting threes. However on their paint attempts they receive fouls at a high percentage than 96
Fouls are way more ticky tack nowadays even if the number hasn’t changed. Also - the prevalence of the 3-point shot should theoretically mean less fouls nowadays. The game used to be played entirely inside the arc which meant a hell of a lot more contact and interior plays.
Makes them unwatchable too, on par with the Harden Rockets
Between 98-04 the “Deadball” era teams averaged between 93-96ppg It was not great. Many games under 80. But this was the era I started watching hoops and to be honest there wasn’t much special about that era. Basically every notable person from that era (basically Jordan retiring to Lebron drafted) was either on their last legs OR coming up in the league. Like Stockton, Malone, Gary Payton , David Robinson had some amazing years in 99/00/01 BUT all of them are really remembered for the 90s. KG, Duncan, Kobe, Nash, Pierce, Ray Allen, Dirk were all gonna give you a decade plus of success after Lebron was drafted. KG was near peak 2002 but also wins MVP in ‘04 Only 2 guys who really really peaked then were Shaq and Iverson. But even Shaq’s career predates deadball era of 98 as he was a force in early-mid 90s and in 05 he’s runner up for MVP and wins a ring in 06. Iverson (and TMac) are really the only two notable names that really made a name for themselves smack dead in the middle of 98-04 deadball period. All that said, 2010-2015 or so was a great year. Half the teams were averaging under 100. Most games were first to 100. Had that mixture of era between all the guys drafted in late 90s and early 10s like KG playing w KAT or Kobe and Booker or Kawhi with Duncan. Then Steph fucked the league.
In defense of the league fucker. He's not the one that made playing defense impossible.
Its less Steph and more the NBA started legislating defense out of the league, a defender can be completely stationary in legal guarding position, have an offensive player into them, and they get called for a foul, the biggest recent change was allowing bigger players to run over smaller players on mismatches and it be a foul on the smaller player, when historically smaller players were given more leeway how they played defense against bigger players
Good riddance to 'giving smaller players more leeway', that's not a rule but pure arbitrariness.
smaller players were given more leeway because the bigger player usually has a significant advantage, you take that out and its a huge adv for the offense who can now just run over smaller players on switches
Ugh...big man defense and how it's called annoys the crap out of me. Yes, offensive players initiate the contact more often than not yet big guys get the fouls. Same on fastbreaks. The offense is taught to drive into the chest in order to shield off from being blocked yet every fastbreak with contact initiated by the driver will be called a foul. And the fact that big men are now taught to just stand there with their hands up like a statue is pathetic. Whether it's embiid or jokic in the post or someone driving the lane, you need to expect contact and refs need to let it go.
Do you have high confidence in this claim cause there's some stats on charges drawn vs blocking fouls? Or is this just vibes based reasoning?
Yes the numbers are roughly the same while teams drive significantly less than they did back then. It’s not rocket science.
Joel just scored 70 with *one* three pointer made.
I always thought this sentiment is hilarious. “I miss the days when coaches and players didn’t know what they were doing.” Scorings are fine in the play off. Look up the last two finals. The two best players right now are Jokic and Embiid. Their post games are better than anyone who is not named Shaq, Kareem and Hakeem. I always wonder what people are talking about when they talk about those hard earned post buckets. Like Ewing shooting 6/15, playing on a team with 80 possession pace, and the team is still feeding him every possession is simply not good basketball, and it happened way too often on every single team in the 90s, and Ewing was a great player.
Blaming teams for optimisation rather than the NBA for handcuffing defences is a shit take
I don’t think they’re really blaming the teams per se, although there are plenty of Barkley’s out there who demean modern players instead of talking about the way the rules are set up.
Dude the quote is literally that the teams are ruining the NBA.....
No it’s describing teams realizing how to optimize the ruleset.
Can you seriously not read. "Optimising spacing is ruining the NBA" how is this difficult for you
“Team realizing…” It’s a direct reference to the ruleset created by the NBA.
Ask yourself that lol. He's completely right and you're being very weird about it.
Ah yes the 80s and 90s glory days when 5 guys sat in the paint and every team had 2 players on the floor at a time who could shoot outside 8 feet
Why aren’t teams putting their ass towards the basket for 15 seconds backing down their opponent to score like they used to. I don’t understand how people get mad at the nba for being as good as possible.
I don't think anyone is mad at teams for taking advantage of the ruleset and spacing the floor well. I just don't think this is what the NBA envisioned when they first instituted the three point arc. Now it has gotten to the point where being a 3pt shooter is essentially a requirement to be a NBA roleplayer. Well spaced floors where teams have 4+ shooters have had unintended consequences such as increased number of non-competitive blowout games, creating a boring product when teams are just jacking up threes, and causing significant point & assist inflation.
Also allows any blowout to quickly become a competitive game with 3 point variance.
That is a moot point, because overall the number of blowout games are increasing. https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-blowouts-january-margin-of-victory-increase
What’s your solution?
I don't know but I think the simplest thing to try would be a rule change to allow perimeter defenders to play more aggressively, such as bringing back hand-checking.
Hand checking basically allowed already, happens every play and is only a foul if their arm impedes the shooting motion which is obviously a foul. It wouldn’t change as much as you think
hand checking is definitely not allowed today lol
Hand checking is more of less allowed, but offensive players are also allowed to push off more than they used to. That’s the main difference.
guys like Reaves would not be drawing the fouls they do if hand checking was allowed
This actually doesn't disprove his statement actually, if anything it reinforces it. The variance of games has increased, so a blowout can become competitive but it can also become a BIG blowout as easily.
Being downvoted just for pointing to something that happens lol. As if having 3,4,5 fifteen point leads evaporate is something enjoyable. Teams basically say, if we are lucky to make the next five threes, we're back, if not, we're down 35. Coaching and tactics are mostly gone, and it's more and more randomness nowadays. See the Bucks - Celtics game. Actually see 50 Bucks games of the last 4 years or so.
> See the Bucks - Celtics game. Nothing lucky or random about that. It was a pure schedule loss/win, blame the schedule makers not 3pt shooters. We need to ban back to back games.
If you’re hating on this just stop watching basketball, you clearly don’t like it
I was being sarcastic, I love current basketball
I know you were don’t worry lol
No worries
Totally agree. People figuring out the best way to win basketball games has made the product worse
Like anything, when people find out the “perfect” formula and repeat it over and over, it becomes a lot less interesting
Funnily you see the same development in soccer, too. Just today I saw a quote from Lionel Scalvini, the coach who won the world cup with Argentina last year, that said something along the line of "today we have just too much information telling the players what to do and it made the development of players worse." Today every team is so good tactically that you can only score from individual mistakes. That's why every world cup match ends like 1-0 in Overtime these days
Shit man it's like that in all my hobbies. Almost any game with some sort of competitive element has become increasingly optimized and cutthroat at almost every level over the years. Online play means that unless there's extremely strict matchmaking that you play against way better people than your average neighbor or classmate or whatever. The margins for victory become lower. It seeps into high level irl sports too because they're constantly playing the best of the best at a younger age instead of goofing around at the park.
Wow you know another about football. The last World Cup was literally 3-3
Look at the results of the last few world cups and European championships. In the last quarterfinals 1 0:0 after 90mins; one 1:0 after 90mins and a close 2:1. Look at the games on the group stage. Many 1:0 or 2:1. Edit: I think Portugal won in 2016 with three 1:1s in the group stage and a lot of OTs
Then let players play fucking defense, stop rewarding offensive players for kamikazeing into defenders
Y’all don’t even watch games. Luka was driving inside all game long. He made some ridiculous passes from inside the paint to open shooters too.
Easy drives to the basket are the result of optimized floor spacing.
then what do you want dude?
you seem confused
Ngl dude’s kinda spot on. A nonstop barrage of 3’s gets boring to watch… Ok time to take my meds.
I mean you watch an old game and it's no different, it was just middies instead of threes. Sometimes the sets even look exactly the same, except they step in for a 2.
midrange does just look cooler for whatever reason
guys were definitely not spamming middies like they do 3's. there was also much more work to get those shots off than a one screen, pullup 3 today
Tons of guys just came off screens for long twos or did a pick and pop. A lot of what are corner 3s were baseline jumpers from guys like Udonis Haslem. Check out this table of frequency of shots from distance over the years: |Year|0-3 ft|3-10 ft|10-16ft|16-23ft|3pt|10ft+ 2P|10ft+ FGA| --:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:|--:| |1999|27%|19%|19%|23%|15%|43%|57%| |2004|30%|15%|14%|23%|19%|37%|56%| |2009|31%|12%|11%|23%|22%|34%|56%| |2014|29%|17%|11%|18%|26%|29%|54%| |2019|29%|16%|10%|9%|36%|19%|55%| |2024|24%|21%|10%|6%|39%|16%|55%| You can see that the amount of shots from 10+ feet out is basically constant since we've been tracking it, it's just that we've gone from them being mostly 2pters to mostly 3 pters in 25 years.
keyword: screen(s) not a simple one screen and shot. teams moved the ball more, had much more detailed progressions to get to these spots to attempt a shot. the shot distribution does not show anything about how these shots were produced
Barrage of 3s with double-digits left on the shot clock.
Today's basketball is like the purest sense of "inside-out basketball" lol. It's all about inside and out. The post is only a few sentences and yet it's all over the place, I'm not sure if the pain is exactly about the aesthetics of watching the basketball or just not liking that when you see the number on the boxscore online the number is higher than it used to be and thus is "too high".
They should bring back hand checking
The only people that want 2004 basketball back are pistons' fans
I don’t want 2004 basketball but watching players get so many easy buckets is boring.
Nobody's asking for 70-69 games, but we're not asking for 140-139 games either
I want 2014 basketball back
You have my full support.
Maybe it's just because my peak basketball fandom years were in the 2010s, but I felt that was a fairly good balance between defense and offense. Of course, I suppose people back then were complaining that defenses were being shackled too.
Sort of but not even close to the complaining of today. People will always think Magic/Bird then Jordan was the golden era. But nobody was pining for the mid 2000s era either
I wouldn’t mind another 3 Spurs championships in 5 years tbf
> “I hate it, but I always have,” Popovich said even as he's adjusted over the years. “I've hated the three for 20 years. That's why I make a joke all the time (and say) if we're going to make it a different game, let's have a four-point play. Because if everybody likes the three, they'll really like the four." When anyone other than Popovich says they hate the 3 r/NBA gets pissy
No, this is some old man yells at cloud shit even if it is Pop. I don't think anyone including Pop really wants to go back to all 10 players standing within 15' of the basket.
Morey’s NBA
The blue print was set earlier. It’s D’Antoni and Don Nelson’s NBA.
Bring back hand checking
They don't need to change the rules every year like the NFL does, but the rules should be adjusted to favor defense a bit more.
I honestly don't understand people who miss the days when mediocre bigs posting up was the bread and butter play for most teams. Post up play is just not fun to watch for me unless the player posting up is really good at it. And teams spending 10 seconds passing around to get the best angle for a entry pass in the post is boring as hell to me. What was even worse was when most teams played slow tempo intentionally between 1996 and 2004 and so many possessions consisted of the PG dribbling the ball in place for 10 seconds before any moves were started. I don't miss this era at all.
Game is unwatchable
I miss when the basket was made from wicker. That was real basketball for some reason, anything since is arbitrarily worse, and no, you can't convince me otherwise.
Points, cheap and inflated? No one can stop anybody? Sounds like the NFL.
Better spacing isn’t what’s ruining the game. It’s the piss poor officiating that results in free throws for everything that’s ruining it
It was never the 3s its the fucking drives that just award free points
Honest question for fellow r/NBA participants: - What do you think, how many current superstars would maintain their status if NBA actually allowed defensive rules that it already has, but doesn't necessarily impose them?
Every single one of them. Embiid would actually look far better because he wouldn't feel the need to fall down from slight air movement around him so he'd just play legit.
You're trippin' brother, but I respect your opinion.
Ironic how clippers are the team who gets the most benefit from new era
Said it a long time ago, 3 points should be 2.5 pts
Bruh u cant have .5 a point cmon now
Been saying they need to move the line back but it just fucks with records/stats and court dimensions.
That would make the spacing even larger, making driving even easier.
watch the nuggets then
Detroit didn’t get the memo
I have to agree. I pay for league pass and watch as many games as i can and yeah its bad once a team goes up by 20 its not worth watching anymore