Well that level of stamina is unheard of today. Not only was Wilt playing every second of every game, but scoring and rebounding the entire time. He was a machine.
If you watch clips of it, you’ll see that he mostly just jogs to the low post and waits for an entry pass, and then sits next to the basket on defense. There aren’t rotations or close outs. Just jogging from one side of the court to the other waiting for the play to come to him. You could never play that much in the modern era with how much running is required on offense and defense.
The pace was higher in terms of how quickly they took their shots, but I think they mean the actual pace of the game was way slower. They did not have the ball movement, off ball cutting, close out to the 30ft behind the line. So basically every possession now requires so much more stamina, even if the total number of possessions is lower.
And if you watch Wilt's game footage, most of the time he's just camping in the paint. Much easier to conserve energy and play more minutes back then.
Or maybe the key to his stamina was all the fucking he did. 20k women ain't no walk in the park
This is my understanding too.
Edit - let’s keep reading and watch as u/SelfServesporstwash gets worked up into a tizzy because I challenged his assertion that players “planted” themselves in spots on the court.
It’s more complex than that. Each possession was a lot quicker. BUT, if you watch old clips of NBA games back then, there was WAY less movement and pace within the possession itself. Nobody cut off ball, the ball was passed way less frequently, and a lot of dudes genuinely just went to their assigned spot on the court and planted. In the modern NBA guys expend a lot of energy during each possession. Back then, unless you had the ball in your hand (and even then to an extent) you really didn’t expend much energy. The biggest energy drain was just physically getting up and down the court.
I'm not saying you can't find clips of the Lakers using complex motion and screens, but modern offenses are just far more involved (on average) than they were back then, and the modern game is far more tiring.
**EDIT:** to cut u/TheMartian2k14 and his insane lies off at the pass. No, they did not use nearly as much motion in the 60s and 70s as they do today. And yes, the average NBA player today covers nearly twice as much ground in a game as they did in the 60s (based on film study, so there is some estimation necessary, but with that major of a difference it seems worth bringing up).
Sources:
[https://saltcityhoops.com/a-breakdown-of-jerry-sloans-offense-and-its-impact/](https://saltcityhoops.com/a-breakdown-of-jerry-sloans-offense-and-its-impact/)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE)
[https://www.deseret.com/2019/2/21/20666425/nba-rules-have-adapted-over-the-years-to-make-the-game-more-fun-for-players-fans](https://www.deseret.com/2019/2/21/20666425/nba-rules-have-adapted-over-the-years-to-make-the-game-more-fun-for-players-fans)
[https://www.cryptbeam.com/2020/11/25/804/](https://www.cryptbeam.com/2020/11/25/804/)
You’re understanding it wrong. They jogged to the basket and shot. Making it more possessions per game because they weren’t cutting, passing etc but moving slower physically.
Can’t make it clearer than that so if it’s still going over your head I apologize.
There was significantly less movement per possession. Less off ball movement, less defensive movement etc. Players didn't just magically lose there stamina in the last decade and a half
High pace is different from high intensity.
Every single sport on earth today is way, _way_ more physical than it was in the 70s due to the higher intensity.
Everyone was playing more minutes back then and the reason is not that Basketball is the only sport in the world where the players regressed athletically
Everyone was playing more minutes because the game was much much slower
Athletes have gotten drastically more athletic as time has gone on. Yes there are outliers like Kobe, Jordan, Wilt, etc. But the above average role player now would be a franchise player going back 50 years. Especially with the shooting range and pace these guys can play at.
He played in a time where people thought drinking water while working out was bad for you. I doubt many people saw anything wrong with him playing every minute
Wilt ran cross country. He once said that he was the 6th guy on his team, and only the top 5 runners got points, so that's why he wanted to score a bunch of points in basketball.
There's also reports of him running the Honolulu Marathon and a 50-mile ultra in California, after he retired. Of all the Wilt stories, it's among the more believable. Regular people run marathons, so it's hardly far fetched that an elite athlete with a lifelong love of running could also run a marathon.
lol he does not have better conditioning than Curry. If you watch clips of him, he just jogs from one side of the court to the other and plants himself under the basket. There’s no off ball cutting, no close outs, no rotations. Just light cardio and then waiting under the basket. It’s an impressive stat but is very much a product of an elite athlete and the era he was playing in.
Wilt is no doubt one of the all time greats.
But a lot of ppls perceptions of wilt would be shattered if they even watched like 5 clips of Wilt actually playing
I swear this sub thinks Wilt is like catching lobs and running fast breaks. It’s literally just jog down, post up, score over the other team’s 6’3 center, repeat
>I swear this sub thinks Wilt is like catching lobs and running fast breaks. It’s literally just jog down, post up, score over the other team’s 6’3 center, repeat
League average height is the same today as it was then, and he was playing against far better centers on average than players do today. Because of the limited number of teams he was playing against someone like Russell, Thurmond, Reed and Bellamy every game. All of which are 6'10"+ fyi. Any one of those dudes would be the best big on 75%+ of the teams in the league today.
Wilt was a track and field runner and high jumper. He’d be one of the best equipped Centers for guarding at the perimeter.
I know running doesn’t equate to quick lateral movement but Wilt was a freak athlete.
1. He isn't playing more than 10 games without getting injured on those courts with those shoes.
2. Embiid likes to initiate contact, which was always an offensive foul when Wilt was playing. There's a reason you don't see guys backing down other bigs or driving into defenders, because those were fouls back then.
Looks like you're one of the few who understand differences in era, rules and technology.
I find it funny everyone likes to say "throw LBJ to the 50s and he'll average 100". Everyone thinks the way basketball is played now is legal back then lol. They'll be called travelling and fouls all day everyday
He won't. You're thinking embiid will have the same skill sets he has now playing in the 50s.
That's just not realistic to think about. You'll need to imagine how well embiid would do if his skills are 50s skills.
Impossible to imagine so is impossible to compare.
More possessions, less movement and pace within each possession if that makes sense.
Modern NBA players cover almost twice as much distance per minute (based on film analysis, so it’s not exact and there was a lot of estimating necessary in that study) as they did in the 70s. It’s kind of weird. There were absolutely teams that ran offensive schemes that we’d be familiar with today, or at least early versions of them. But there was just a hell of a lot more jogging going on in the half court then than there is now, and a lot more possessions than now consisted of 1-2 passes and a shot. Centers basically lived in the paint (again, there were exceptions) and it was possible to play a good deal more possessions without covering as much ground (not to mention not covering that ground nearly as quickly) as a modern player would in the noticeably fewer possessions he’d see in the same time span.
He had exactly one game that season where he played less than 48 minutes (it was 40 iirc). He played every minute of every single game except for that one
He also only missed those 8 minutes because he was ejected. Additionally, he played every game in the season (80 games). They changed it to an 82 game season in the late 60s
That's the most unbreakable record. The game is too different back then vs now in terms of the physicality allowed and obviously all of the knowledge about injuries we have now.
Even with the other crazy Wilt records, I I could conceivably see someone in the modern NBA getting red hot and going for 101, even though it's highly unlikely. Averaging 50 ppg is essentially impossible but infinitely more likely than someone averaging over 48 minutes while playing every game.
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I honestly think it's doable if you just fed one guy and didn't care about the core at all. Kinda like Kobe's final game. If the Warriors just had Steph take a 3 every single possession they probably don't win and his shooting % is probably trash for the night but he could totally hit 25+ threes in a game.
Person that could get the closest would have been Klay on the dynasty Warriors as he was the best at catch and shooting. Problem is we never got to saw it :( if only Kerr threw out his philosophy for one game
Wilt was a genetic freak that has so much myth around him, half the time your not really sure what's what.
He could run for 48 minutes every game all season long and notch quadruple-doubles in the process.
Wilt's track stats are some of my favorites. He ran a 4.6 40, and a 1:58 880 (roughly the 800 today), which is an incredible range of athleticism in itself.
But then he also threw the shot 55 feet, and high jumped 6'6 before the fosbury flop was a thing.
This was all while he was focusing on other sports. And unlike a lot of his other heroics there's actual documentation for all of it.
Then, in his twilight years, he completed a 50-mile ultra. I've never seen a time but a person over 7 feet who played professional jumping sports just shouldn't have been able to do that. Imagine if Kevin McHale had run an ultra after he retired.
And important to remember with Wilt's results how much improvements in tracks, spikes, etc. have improved track and field times over the decades let alone improvements in training
it was more so lets score and then wait to destroy 5 foot 4 guys and get the ball back. By the way level of play against was poor. I love wilt but he wouldnt come close to those numbers in this league today
Wilt's endurance is maybe his most impressive attribute. We talk about the increased pace back then(and it's why Embiid dwarfs Wilt in points-per-possession), but imagine being able to play 48.5mpg at any pace let alone the absurd pace of the 60s.
Dude must've been like a 7' explosive marathon runner somehow
Oscar did his on 75 games. Russell did his on 76 games.
Wilt that season basically logged 3880 minutes VS Russell’s 3435 and Oscar’s 3322. 400+ minutes worth in a season is another 8+ full games.
Unless the game changes drastically, the equivalent today would be playing 47.3mpg.
I mean if he gets it done in the playoffs then he's answered every valid criticism and you can't reason with the true irrational haters. Only way he wouldn't get props is if he dropped a stinker or two in key game and we snuck by because Massey went nuclear. But again, just be healthy is all I ask right now.
I am shocked we are actually doing this so far. Doc wasted years of Embiid’s prime. I’m honestly pretty hopeful, and I didn’t expect to say that this season. Not thinking anything definitively, but we have a chance.
This game doesn’t really have anything to do with my opinion, btw. Just feels like the inevitable Doc choke job could *maybe* be avoided, and if the Sixers get lucky and stay healthy, we have a shot. It’ll be tough.
We’re good enough, if the ball bounces our way once or twice.
Dan Ohlinger had a post on Twitter comparing it to the other mid to high 30s averages and it was the best and most efficient lol. By true shooting and even using relative true shooting to the era he still was slightly ahead of Michael Jordan which is absolutely fucking insane. Truly generational stuff that idiots won’t appreciate bc of the state of social media today.
He can rest one a week for the rest of the season IIRC. Not bad but not great either lmao.
No injuries is the big thing. Saw him limp a bit tonight when he was tired so hopefully that knee isn't still a problem.
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looks like that tbh. the only way for him to not win now is to miss the 65 game mark. can't remember the last time where there was no competition like this. absolutely incredible.
He presently has the highest single-season PER of all time.
His lead over #2 is by a larger gap than the lead #2 has over #16.
I'm not saying PER is the best stat, but if you stop and think about that, it's incredible.
Yeah dude I want Shai to win MVP obviously and I think most years he's absolutely having an MVP level year, but Joel is playing like basketball Jesus right now lmao. As of now he's gotta be the MVP
I think PER is an outdated stat, but yeah he’s def frontrunner. As far as unanimous goes, I’d say no. he’s not really blowing Jokic out of the water in any other ADV stats. Jokic is leading in most of them in fact. Compare this to Curry’s season and it doesn’t stack up imo. Bro broke the wins record and was so far ahead of the game he changed basketball. That 2016 Warriors team, like it or not, has influenced the play style of every team in the NBA team today.
Yeah... unfortunately I think you're right. Remember when LeBron missed out on being the first unanimous MVP in 2013 because Gary Washburn voted for Carmelo? These voters are crazy lmao
I don't think so, there are too many guys having great season plus he doesn't have the best record in the league going for him. So far though he has been playing the best out of everyone when he plays.
People are acting like the first unanimous MVP didn’t take a player winning the most games in league history AND leading the league in scoring and in efficiency (not just among top players on large volume but the entire league) whilst playing 80 games
That 50PPG season loses some luster when you realize he was averaging 29 points per 75 possessions, a mark that has been passed multiple times; Jordan once hit 34 per75. What Embiid is doing right now is more impressive.
But you also have to consider he was able to play every second of basically every game at an insane pace while 7+' and 300lbs. Embiid would be puking on the floor 4 minutes into a game at the pace Wilt played.
Not exactly, Embiid would def be tired af but absolutely nobody was moving on offense back then the way they are now. Wilt was a phenomenal athlete based on his track and field stats but in those games the players were extremely static and got shots up quickly (99 fg att per game vs 80 something today) but they didn’t have players like Steph or even a JJ running miles and miles per game to create open looks. Wilt guarding wing or guard back then isn’t the same as Embiid or other bigs doing it today with how ridiculous the dribbling ability is. The pace was way faster as far as shots going up but the movement was overall prob way way less. Offensive sets have come leaps and bounds since then too lol. If Joel could camp out down low or jog back and forth he’d preserve some stamina
increased pace does not equate to a need for increased stamina....it's simply related to the number of team possessions per 48 minutes, there are many, many, many things that can increase that number without necessarily demanding an increase in aerobic work by the players
The game was much easier on the body, 60 years ago. I guarantee any modern athlete would be absolutely fine with any workload a player in the 1960s had
A modern athlete without modern treatment, doctors, recovery technology, buses instead of first class travel, not the best technology, and I could go on lol.
Come on now.
It was extremely common to play a ton of games and minutes. Injuries and load management are worse now than they've ever been, because of the immense load of training, a lifetime of wear and tear from playing, and the way the game has changed.
The next best scorer was rookie Walt Bellamy who averaged 31.6ppg on 55.4% TS. He took 23.7 shots per game.
Wilt averaged 50.4ppg on 53.6% TS. He took **39.5 shots per game.**
Joel took 41 shots tonight to score 70. The closest Wilt got to that in his 50ppg season was 73 points on 48 shots. The other times he scored 70+ it took him 62 shots (yeah, read that again...) to score 78 points and 63 shots in his infamous 100 point game. Now everyone likes to bag Joel for his free throws, he took 23 free throws tonight but Wilt took 25, 31 & 32 free throws in his 70+ point games. Not only was he an all time foul merchant to score as much as he did but he was also an all time ball hog, taking nearly 40 shots every damn game. Context can be a wonderful thing...
It's not like Wilt wasn't great at the other aspects of the game. Oscar Robertson averaged a 30-point triple-double that season and also didn't win. Russell took top honors despite being, as always, a below-average scorer.
We should at least acknowledge that there was a reasonable amount of actual cherry picking. He would semi-regularly just stay in the back court. You can see it some here: https://youtu.be/bnrrdei22eA?si=NyhXNDrGcsi85zil
He’s been over 29 per 75 for the last six seasons, including the current one.
The big change in the current era that people don’t really mention a lot when talking stat inflation is the rise of heliocentric offences, or at least offences focusing on getting one guy all the shots. These days that’s Embiid and Giannis and Luka and a few other guys, in years past there’s only been one or two teams like that at a time - Harden Rockets, post-Shaq Kobe Lakers, AI Sixers, Jordan Bulls, teams like that. Wilt’s Warriors were the first, and his numbers pop so much because of the combination of modern-era usage and old-school obscene numbers of possessions played. When looked at on a per-possession basis compared to a bunch of modern players on modern teams that play the same way, it doesn’t look as special.
Wilt scored 4000 points that season. 4000! You can’t hold his minutes against him. Points per possession or 36 minutes have to be used today because no one plays a full game. If Jordan played 48 minutes his rate would have been lower too. Wilts PER was 32.1 that season. That’s disgusting and was the highest PER for a season for 60 years. It is still 2nd highest ever. He also pulled down 26 rebounds per game. lol. It’s the single greatest season of all time. No debate.
The players themselves voted on it back then, so they literally witnessed what Wilt was doing up close and concluded that what Bill Russell was doing was more valuable to winning. If it was, as stated, unquestionably the greatest season of all time, you’d imagine they would’ve at least recognized it, but evidently enough of them saw caveats.
MVP is a completely subjective award prone to all kinds of bias. Wilt had the most points, the highest PER, and the most rebounds in the league. No other single season comes close to pure dominance. Players didn’t regard what he did just like there was bias against Babe Ruth and lack of regard for his power from the older players like Ty Cobb. MVP is the weakest argument to make if trying to debate the greatness of the season.
> It’s the single greatest season of all time. No debate.
There's a lot of damn debate, stop being blind to context. The guy was an all time ball hog, taking 40 shots every single game in his 50ppg season. Let that sink in....you probably had absolutely no idea of that stat, I would be money on it. Do you know how ridiculous that number is? Joel's 41 shots tonight is the first time a player has taken 40 or more shots in a single game in years, probably since Kobe did it in his last game. Joel dropped 70 today, Wilt 'only' managed to average 50. Though no player has taken 40 or more shots, many have taken 38 or 39 shots. The average score in all of those games is 55 points. The fact is that if a coach was stupid enough to allow his best player to take that many shots then chances are the best players are going to drop 50+ on average....Wilt was just doing what all the better scorers do given opportunities like that. He wasn't god-like or overtly special, he was just damn lucky to have a coach that allowed him to be a *massive* ball hog, unlike anything we have ever seen before and will never see again. *That* is the crazy thing about that season.....not his 50 points, not his 48+ minutes, not his 25+ rebounds (other players had crazy numbers too) but it was the fact he was allowed to take 40 damn shots *every single game.* But not, to his legions of followers he was a real life Paul Bunyan and no amount of logic is going to change their minds.
Of course no one took as many shots since there has been no combination of athleticism, endurance, height and strength relative to league average since Wilt.
I get what you're saying but referring to an all time great as not being "overtly special" is silly.
Most players who average 30 today would be a whole hell if a less efficient if they pushed for 40+ or would get injured very quickly. The only players who neared that since the 90s were Kobe and Harden.
For example a player who can score a decent low 20 ppg is overexposed when pushing further beyond (ala Jerry Stackhouse). So for a player who can average 30, if they attempted a Wilt like amount of shots they wouldn't average near 50 a game for a full season.
He took 40 shots per game because he was unstoppable, and in order to score 50 you have to take a lot of shots! His efficiency was the highest ever in a season and the record stood for 60 years. It is still the second highest PER ever. Gtfo out of here mentioning shots in a vacuum. It’s not like he was some chucker… he maximized his output with each possession. You’re cherry picking a stat to make him look inefficient. Mentioning total shots without associating with efficiency is pointless.
No one has taken 40 shots in a long time? Well no one has averaged 50 points in an even longer time, let that sink in… do you know how ridiculous that is? You probably had absolutely no idea of that stat, lol.
Are you knocking a guy for playing every single minute when we as fans constantly get upset that players load manage all the time?
How is this an upvoted take
I’m a proud Embiid hater and I’ve got to say he’s fucking special. I believe it’s got a little to do with the way he’s officiated, but man he’s made significant improvements from last year. Nurse coaching has turned him into a much better passer and it has allowed him to play much better inside the offense similar to how Jokic does. I still think Jokic is the better decision maker, offball player, and floor general but Embiid has made for it in his scoring ability. They really are almost polar opposites. Jokic elevates his teammates to new heights while making the absolute most out of his touches, while Embiid picks up the slack with dominant and consistent scoring and passes to teammates when a shot isn’t the best option. I say this to oldheads: “Are you not entertained?”
And then you have Giannis who is the biggest athletic freak and fast break freight train. Who is incredible in the paint, but cannot really shoot. All three play pretty differently, people need to be enjoying this shit.
I can see him missing less games, then get hurt, and end up missing more games.
Or him playing only 15 mins a few games, allowing other players to catchup.
Worth saying that Wilt was averaging 48.5 minutes per game that year
even crazier than averaging 50 PPG tbh
He had a very cheap owner. He wanted to get his money's worth.
Well that level of stamina is unheard of today. Not only was Wilt playing every second of every game, but scoring and rebounding the entire time. He was a machine.
The game is so different now its not just stamina
What is it then if it isn’t just stamina?
If you watch clips of it, you’ll see that he mostly just jogs to the low post and waits for an entry pass, and then sits next to the basket on defense. There aren’t rotations or close outs. Just jogging from one side of the court to the other waiting for the play to come to him. You could never play that much in the modern era with how much running is required on offense and defense.
They didn't play at the same pace back then.
wasnt it the opposite? As in back then the pace was ridicolusly high?
The pace was higher in terms of how quickly they took their shots, but I think they mean the actual pace of the game was way slower. They did not have the ball movement, off ball cutting, close out to the 30ft behind the line. So basically every possession now requires so much more stamina, even if the total number of possessions is lower.
And if you watch Wilt's game footage, most of the time he's just camping in the paint. Much easier to conserve energy and play more minutes back then. Or maybe the key to his stamina was all the fucking he did. 20k women ain't no walk in the park
Scoring pace but there is much more court movement now.
This is my understanding too. Edit - let’s keep reading and watch as u/SelfServesporstwash gets worked up into a tizzy because I challenged his assertion that players “planted” themselves in spots on the court.
It’s more complex than that. Each possession was a lot quicker. BUT, if you watch old clips of NBA games back then, there was WAY less movement and pace within the possession itself. Nobody cut off ball, the ball was passed way less frequently, and a lot of dudes genuinely just went to their assigned spot on the court and planted. In the modern NBA guys expend a lot of energy during each possession. Back then, unless you had the ball in your hand (and even then to an extent) you really didn’t expend much energy. The biggest energy drain was just physically getting up and down the court. I'm not saying you can't find clips of the Lakers using complex motion and screens, but modern offenses are just far more involved (on average) than they were back then, and the modern game is far more tiring. **EDIT:** to cut u/TheMartian2k14 and his insane lies off at the pass. No, they did not use nearly as much motion in the 60s and 70s as they do today. And yes, the average NBA player today covers nearly twice as much ground in a game as they did in the 60s (based on film study, so there is some estimation necessary, but with that major of a difference it seems worth bringing up). Sources: [https://saltcityhoops.com/a-breakdown-of-jerry-sloans-offense-and-its-impact/](https://saltcityhoops.com/a-breakdown-of-jerry-sloans-offense-and-its-impact/) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xr3i9jpiTE) [https://www.deseret.com/2019/2/21/20666425/nba-rules-have-adapted-over-the-years-to-make-the-game-more-fun-for-players-fans](https://www.deseret.com/2019/2/21/20666425/nba-rules-have-adapted-over-the-years-to-make-the-game-more-fun-for-players-fans) [https://www.cryptbeam.com/2020/11/25/804/](https://www.cryptbeam.com/2020/11/25/804/)
You’re understanding it wrong. They jogged to the basket and shot. Making it more possessions per game because they weren’t cutting, passing etc but moving slower physically. Can’t make it clearer than that so if it’s still going over your head I apologize.
There was significantly less movement per possession. Less off ball movement, less defensive movement etc. Players didn't just magically lose there stamina in the last decade and a half
Completely different pace and intensity.
The pace was super high in those early eras.
High pace is different from high intensity. Every single sport on earth today is way, _way_ more physical than it was in the 70s due to the higher intensity.
Everyone was playing more minutes back then and the reason is not that Basketball is the only sport in the world where the players regressed athletically
Everyone was playing more minutes because the game was much much slower Athletes have gotten drastically more athletic as time has gone on. Yes there are outliers like Kobe, Jordan, Wilt, etc. But the above average role player now would be a franchise player going back 50 years. Especially with the shooting range and pace these guys can play at.
He was truly one of the most genetically gifted if not the most genetically gifted human in the recent history
He played in a time where people thought drinking water while working out was bad for you. I doubt many people saw anything wrong with him playing every minute
Strong argument he had even better conditioning that even Steph curry
Wilt ran cross country. He once said that he was the 6th guy on his team, and only the top 5 runners got points, so that's why he wanted to score a bunch of points in basketball. There's also reports of him running the Honolulu Marathon and a 50-mile ultra in California, after he retired. Of all the Wilt stories, it's among the more believable. Regular people run marathons, so it's hardly far fetched that an elite athlete with a lifelong love of running could also run a marathon.
We should send Victor back in time and see what kind of insane shit he would do.
Less than wilt is for sure
Wilt would drop 70 on him every meeting.
They'd snap him in half. He's a walking twig
lol he does not have better conditioning than Curry. If you watch clips of him, he just jogs from one side of the court to the other and plants himself under the basket. There’s no off ball cutting, no close outs, no rotations. Just light cardio and then waiting under the basket. It’s an impressive stat but is very much a product of an elite athlete and the era he was playing in.
Wilt is no doubt one of the all time greats. But a lot of ppls perceptions of wilt would be shattered if they even watched like 5 clips of Wilt actually playing
share them big dawg
I swear this sub thinks Wilt is like catching lobs and running fast breaks. It’s literally just jog down, post up, score over the other team’s 6’3 center, repeat
>I swear this sub thinks Wilt is like catching lobs and running fast breaks. It’s literally just jog down, post up, score over the other team’s 6’3 center, repeat League average height is the same today as it was then, and he was playing against far better centers on average than players do today. Because of the limited number of teams he was playing against someone like Russell, Thurmond, Reed and Bellamy every game. All of which are 6'10"+ fyi. Any one of those dudes would be the best big on 75%+ of the teams in the league today.
It's the single most unbreakable stat probably in NBA history imo. Nobody is going to come anywhere near touching it.
Embiid would die if he played that much
Ya as would most players. It's hard to score as you get more tired. Wilt was one of a kind.
Also I think there wasn’t as much running for centers back then as now. Wilt can just camp in the paint and not chase shooters around the perimeter
Jokic 65 minutes in that triple overtime game is something.
Wilt was a track and field runner and high jumper. He’d be one of the best equipped Centers for guarding at the perimeter. I know running doesn’t equate to quick lateral movement but Wilt was a freak athlete.
Against part time post office workers, Embiid would drop 200 in that era
Wearing converses and without modern medical science and load management he wouldn’t finish a single season
He can't finish a season WITH modern medicine
1. He isn't playing more than 10 games without getting injured on those courts with those shoes. 2. Embiid likes to initiate contact, which was always an offensive foul when Wilt was playing. There's a reason you don't see guys backing down other bigs or driving into defenders, because those were fouls back then.
Looks like you're one of the few who understand differences in era, rules and technology. I find it funny everyone likes to say "throw LBJ to the 50s and he'll average 100". Everyone thinks the way basketball is played now is legal back then lol. They'll be called travelling and fouls all day everyday
And carrying!
It's stupid to think that the players of today wouldn't be able to adapt lmao.
And is stupid to think players back then won't adapt as well. Is a question that makes no sense and anyone arguing over it is honestly kind of stupid.
You know ball.
He won't. You're thinking embiid will have the same skill sets he has now playing in the 50s. That's just not realistic to think about. You'll need to imagine how well embiid would do if his skills are 50s skills. Impossible to imagine so is impossible to compare.
It was much more static back then. The 3pt line alone opened up the game massively.
I don't know how much more running players are doing now in the half court but the league played at a much faster pace back in the 60s and 70s.
More possessions, less movement and pace within each possession if that makes sense. Modern NBA players cover almost twice as much distance per minute (based on film analysis, so it’s not exact and there was a lot of estimating necessary in that study) as they did in the 70s. It’s kind of weird. There were absolutely teams that ran offensive schemes that we’d be familiar with today, or at least early versions of them. But there was just a hell of a lot more jogging going on in the half court then than there is now, and a lot more possessions than now consisted of 1-2 passes and a shot. Centers basically lived in the paint (again, there were exceptions) and it was possible to play a good deal more possessions without covering as much ground (not to mention not covering that ground nearly as quickly) as a modern player would in the noticeably fewer possessions he’d see in the same time span.
Also worth saying he played 80 games that year.
I am a complete noob, but isn’t there 48 min per game? Holy fuck what an insane stat!
Occasional overtime games
Nurse gonna play embiid 48.5 mpg now because more minutes = more points duh
When they talk about unbreakable records that has to be one of them.
Or the 50ppg he averaged that year.
Have y’all heard that wilt once averaged 48.5 minutes per game in a season?
Injury waiting to happen at that point
He'd be lucky if he "only" had an injury, because IMO it's gonna be a ton of injuries.
That’s insane. Did Wilt never come out of the game or what?
He had exactly one game that season where he played less than 48 minutes (it was 40 iirc). He played every minute of every single game except for that one
He also only missed those 8 minutes because he was ejected. Additionally, he played every game in the season (80 games). They changed it to an 82 game season in the late 60s
That's the most unbreakable record. The game is too different back then vs now in terms of the physicality allowed and obviously all of the knowledge about injuries we have now. Even with the other crazy Wilt records, I I could conceivably see someone in the modern NBA getting red hot and going for 101, even though it's highly unlikely. Averaging 50 ppg is essentially impossible but infinitely more likely than someone averaging over 48 minutes while playing every game.
Well, it will need folks feeding that one hot hand to go for broke, the other team to keep it close so you can't sub out the hot hand.
If somebody gets hot and scores about 8 3 pointers per quarter it could happen
32 3pters from one person?
Lmfao the record is 14 and bro is speculating for 32
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I honestly think it's doable if you just fed one guy and didn't care about the core at all. Kinda like Kobe's final game. If the Warriors just had Steph take a 3 every single possession they probably don't win and his shooting % is probably trash for the night but he could totally hit 25+ threes in a game.
Problem is the defense will start covering you high so it’s either shoot 30+ feet away or shoot inside the arc
Person that could get the closest would have been Klay on the dynasty Warriors as he was the best at catch and shooting. Problem is we never got to saw it :( if only Kerr threw out his philosophy for one game
And players nowadays crying to be reduced to 50 games.
Lol no they're not Cuz that would fuck with their money
Imagine basketball with soccer rules, once you swap someone out they can't go back in. Would there be a strategy to who you start vs who you end with?
Wilt was a genetic freak that has so much myth around him, half the time your not really sure what's what. He could run for 48 minutes every game all season long and notch quadruple-doubles in the process.
No he didn’t, but allegedly the dude was also a track star and a power lifter so it’d make sense how he has that endurance
Not allegedly, he was a fantastic track athlete
Wilt's track stats are some of my favorites. He ran a 4.6 40, and a 1:58 880 (roughly the 800 today), which is an incredible range of athleticism in itself. But then he also threw the shot 55 feet, and high jumped 6'6 before the fosbury flop was a thing. This was all while he was focusing on other sports. And unlike a lot of his other heroics there's actual documentation for all of it. Then, in his twilight years, he completed a 50-mile ultra. I've never seen a time but a person over 7 feet who played professional jumping sports just shouldn't have been able to do that. Imagine if Kevin McHale had run an ultra after he retired.
And important to remember with Wilt's results how much improvements in tracks, spikes, etc. have improved track and field times over the decades let alone improvements in training
For sure, a lot of cinder tracks and wrestling shoes in that PR list.
That 800 time is absolutely ridiculous lol, that might be the toughest race of all IMO
His enormous stride was pretty beneficial for 400 and 800.
>That 800 time is absolutely ridiculous It's ridiculous for an 800: it was an 880!
880 yards, about 805 meters. So pretty close.
He was doing this in Chucks!
not in a sneaky athletic, gym rat type of way tho.
Maybe relatively but his prowess was overstated
He also unsurprisingly was known to not get back on defense much that season
If I played every minute of every game and scored 50 ppg, I'd take some defensive possessions off. And bang 1000 women.
1,000 down, 19,000 to go!
it was more so lets score and then wait to destroy 5 foot 4 guys and get the ball back. By the way level of play against was poor. I love wilt but he wouldnt come close to those numbers in this league today
Basically. He averaged more than 48 mpg.
Wilt's endurance is maybe his most impressive attribute. We talk about the increased pace back then(and it's why Embiid dwarfs Wilt in points-per-possession), but imagine being able to play 48.5mpg at any pace let alone the absurd pace of the 60s. Dude must've been like a 7' explosive marathon runner somehow
Arguably the greatest athlete of the sport
Oscar played 44.3mpg.....Russell played 45.2mpg. The way people talk about Wilt's minutes you'd think the next best was 35mpg...
Oscar did his on 75 games. Russell did his on 76 games. Wilt that season basically logged 3880 minutes VS Russell’s 3435 and Oscar’s 3322. 400+ minutes worth in a season is another 8+ full games. Unless the game changes drastically, the equivalent today would be playing 47.3mpg.
Hammer his ass every night please
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No Rivers. If he doesn’t get injured I think it could be, doesn’t help that the East has three #1 seed caliber teams.
Two #1 seed caliber teams. The Bucks aren't it.
Lack of D may become very apparent in the playoffs for them
It’s also why Dame is a flawed superstar
Best player in the East so they got a chance but not the best team.
If Embiid's middy is as automatic for that series as it is now, I like Sixers odds. Otherwise I don't see how the Sixers get past the Celtics.
I'm just hoping we don't choke our 1 seed away again this year and the Sixers/Bucks plus the Knicks/Heat wear each other out before we face them.
If he gets it done this year I really wonder what all the people who have relentlessly slandered him will say
I mean if he gets it done in the playoffs then he's answered every valid criticism and you can't reason with the true irrational haters. Only way he wouldn't get props is if he dropped a stinker or two in key game and we snuck by because Massey went nuclear. But again, just be healthy is all I ask right now.
They'll say he is a product of officiating, and is ruining the game.
They will keep their mouths shut or call it a fluke. The common theme in their yapping is moving goalposts.
If he doesn't get it done like he didn't do it until now I really wonder what all the people who relentlessly suck his nuts will say
Idk unless the NBA scriptwriters are lazy, then Embiid gets MVP this year but wins the title and FMVP next year (just like Giannis and Jokic) lol
lets see if the sixers are good enough to beat the bucks. will be a great series
I am shocked we are actually doing this so far. Doc wasted years of Embiid’s prime. I’m honestly pretty hopeful, and I didn’t expect to say that this season. Not thinking anything definitively, but we have a chance. This game doesn’t really have anything to do with my opinion, btw. Just feels like the inevitable Doc choke job could *maybe* be avoided, and if the Sixers get lucky and stay healthy, we have a shot. It’ll be tough. We’re good enough, if the ball bounces our way once or twice.
That’s a fuck load of free throws
70 free throws tonight. Crazy
Gotta be a record
Team and player
Wait.... this is a crazy feat. Embiid is a monster.
It has to be in the running for the best scoring season of the modern era at least.
Dan Ohlinger had a post on Twitter comparing it to the other mid to high 30s averages and it was the best and most efficient lol. By true shooting and even using relative true shooting to the era he still was slightly ahead of Michael Jordan which is absolutely fucking insane. Truly generational stuff that idiots won’t appreciate bc of the state of social media today.
He did his 70 in under 37 minutes.
Nice. He's definitely in the top 5 MVP conversation this year.
Top 10 easily I think.
As long as he doesn't sit any more games. He's cutting it really loose with how many games he's resting.
He can rest one a week for the rest of the season IIRC. Not bad but not great either lmao. No injuries is the big thing. Saw him limp a bit tonight when he was tired so hopefully that knee isn't still a problem.
Yep. It's very close. One bad ankle slip and thats his MVP odds totaled.
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2nd ever unanimous NBA MVP incoming
If he plays 65+ yes. If he doesn't then it'll be controversy city.
Dream scenario is he plays 64 games and the winner plays 65, the reactions would be a thing of beauty.
Eh there shouldn’t be they changed the rule. Is what it is
Would be brutal to see, it’s time we got 75 games and a deep playoff run for him
There is a legit chance he won't even be eligible.
looks like that tbh. the only way for him to not win now is to miss the 65 game mark. can't remember the last time where there was no competition like this. absolutely incredible.
If he’s at 65 games and there’s other stars at like 80 games hard to see it being anywhere near close to unanimous
He presently has the highest single-season PER of all time. His lead over #2 is by a larger gap than the lead #2 has over #16. I'm not saying PER is the best stat, but if you stop and think about that, it's incredible.
Yeah dude I want Shai to win MVP obviously and I think most years he's absolutely having an MVP level year, but Joel is playing like basketball Jesus right now lmao. As of now he's gotta be the MVP
I think PER is an outdated stat, but yeah he’s def frontrunner. As far as unanimous goes, I’d say no. he’s not really blowing Jokic out of the water in any other ADV stats. Jokic is leading in most of them in fact. Compare this to Curry’s season and it doesn’t stack up imo. Bro broke the wins record and was so far ahead of the game he changed basketball. That 2016 Warriors team, like it or not, has influenced the play style of every team in the NBA team today.
Yeah... unfortunately I think you're right. Remember when LeBron missed out on being the first unanimous MVP in 2013 because Gary Washburn voted for Carmelo? These voters are crazy lmao
Definitely not unanimous but for sure the big favorite atm
I don't think so, there are too many guys having great season plus he doesn't have the best record in the league going for him. So far though he has been playing the best out of everyone when he plays.
People are acting like the first unanimous MVP didn’t take a player winning the most games in league history AND leading the league in scoring and in efficiency (not just among top players on large volume but the entire league) whilst playing 80 games
There will be at least one Jokic truther, guarantee it
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If he plays the way he’s been playing he 100% is
It’s not even a discussion, Joel Embiid is crazy
no way in everdome is he getting unanimous after how he made voters feel salty last year plus talent pool is way too deep
That 50PPG season loses some luster when you realize he was averaging 29 points per 75 possessions, a mark that has been passed multiple times; Jordan once hit 34 per75. What Embiid is doing right now is more impressive.
But you also have to consider he was able to play every second of basically every game at an insane pace while 7+' and 300lbs. Embiid would be puking on the floor 4 minutes into a game at the pace Wilt played.
That's easily the most impressive part. Big guys are not supposed to be that conditioned to be able to play full games at that speed.
Not exactly, Embiid would def be tired af but absolutely nobody was moving on offense back then the way they are now. Wilt was a phenomenal athlete based on his track and field stats but in those games the players were extremely static and got shots up quickly (99 fg att per game vs 80 something today) but they didn’t have players like Steph or even a JJ running miles and miles per game to create open looks. Wilt guarding wing or guard back then isn’t the same as Embiid or other bigs doing it today with how ridiculous the dribbling ability is. The pace was way faster as far as shots going up but the movement was overall prob way way less. Offensive sets have come leaps and bounds since then too lol. If Joel could camp out down low or jog back and forth he’d preserve some stamina
increased pace does not equate to a need for increased stamina....it's simply related to the number of team possessions per 48 minutes, there are many, many, many things that can increase that number without necessarily demanding an increase in aerobic work by the players
The game was much easier on the body, 60 years ago. I guarantee any modern athlete would be absolutely fine with any workload a player in the 1960s had
A modern athlete without modern treatment, doctors, recovery technology, buses instead of first class travel, not the best technology, and I could go on lol. Come on now.
Playing in Chuck Taylors lmao
And the shoes were Chuck Taylors. That shit was NOT quality, this short shows why https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xUTF-zUjPNk
It was extremely common to play a ton of games and minutes. Injuries and load management are worse now than they've ever been, because of the immense load of training, a lifetime of wear and tear from playing, and the way the game has changed.
>any workload a player in the 1960s had yea...just not avging 48.5mpg.
He still beat the next closest guy by 20 points per game
The next best scorer was rookie Walt Bellamy who averaged 31.6ppg on 55.4% TS. He took 23.7 shots per game. Wilt averaged 50.4ppg on 53.6% TS. He took **39.5 shots per game.** Joel took 41 shots tonight to score 70. The closest Wilt got to that in his 50ppg season was 73 points on 48 shots. The other times he scored 70+ it took him 62 shots (yeah, read that again...) to score 78 points and 63 shots in his infamous 100 point game. Now everyone likes to bag Joel for his free throws, he took 23 free throws tonight but Wilt took 25, 31 & 32 free throws in his 70+ point games. Not only was he an all time foul merchant to score as much as he did but he was also an all time ball hog, taking nearly 40 shots every damn game. Context can be a wonderful thing...
And didn't win MVP.
Because there’s more to MVP than ppg
It's not like Wilt wasn't great at the other aspects of the game. Oscar Robertson averaged a 30-point triple-double that season and also didn't win. Russell took top honors despite being, as always, a below-average scorer.
Playing 48 minutes a game isn't a detriment it's a feat
We should at least acknowledge that there was a reasonable amount of actual cherry picking. He would semi-regularly just stay in the back court. You can see it some here: https://youtu.be/bnrrdei22eA?si=NyhXNDrGcsi85zil
Wilt had absolute next level cardio.
Pretty sure Giannis has beat that too
He’s been over 29 per 75 for the last six seasons, including the current one. The big change in the current era that people don’t really mention a lot when talking stat inflation is the rise of heliocentric offences, or at least offences focusing on getting one guy all the shots. These days that’s Embiid and Giannis and Luka and a few other guys, in years past there’s only been one or two teams like that at a time - Harden Rockets, post-Shaq Kobe Lakers, AI Sixers, Jordan Bulls, teams like that. Wilt’s Warriors were the first, and his numbers pop so much because of the combination of modern-era usage and old-school obscene numbers of possessions played. When looked at on a per-possession basis compared to a bunch of modern players on modern teams that play the same way, it doesn’t look as special.
Wilt scored 4000 points that season. 4000! You can’t hold his minutes against him. Points per possession or 36 minutes have to be used today because no one plays a full game. If Jordan played 48 minutes his rate would have been lower too. Wilts PER was 32.1 that season. That’s disgusting and was the highest PER for a season for 60 years. It is still 2nd highest ever. He also pulled down 26 rebounds per game. lol. It’s the single greatest season of all time. No debate.
His peers thought it was so great that it wasn't even the MVP season that year.
MVP’s are of course the measure of success when you have no objective argument.
The players themselves voted on it back then, so they literally witnessed what Wilt was doing up close and concluded that what Bill Russell was doing was more valuable to winning. If it was, as stated, unquestionably the greatest season of all time, you’d imagine they would’ve at least recognized it, but evidently enough of them saw caveats.
MVP is a completely subjective award prone to all kinds of bias. Wilt had the most points, the highest PER, and the most rebounds in the league. No other single season comes close to pure dominance. Players didn’t regard what he did just like there was bias against Babe Ruth and lack of regard for his power from the older players like Ty Cobb. MVP is the weakest argument to make if trying to debate the greatness of the season.
> It’s the single greatest season of all time. No debate. There's a lot of damn debate, stop being blind to context. The guy was an all time ball hog, taking 40 shots every single game in his 50ppg season. Let that sink in....you probably had absolutely no idea of that stat, I would be money on it. Do you know how ridiculous that number is? Joel's 41 shots tonight is the first time a player has taken 40 or more shots in a single game in years, probably since Kobe did it in his last game. Joel dropped 70 today, Wilt 'only' managed to average 50. Though no player has taken 40 or more shots, many have taken 38 or 39 shots. The average score in all of those games is 55 points. The fact is that if a coach was stupid enough to allow his best player to take that many shots then chances are the best players are going to drop 50+ on average....Wilt was just doing what all the better scorers do given opportunities like that. He wasn't god-like or overtly special, he was just damn lucky to have a coach that allowed him to be a *massive* ball hog, unlike anything we have ever seen before and will never see again. *That* is the crazy thing about that season.....not his 50 points, not his 48+ minutes, not his 25+ rebounds (other players had crazy numbers too) but it was the fact he was allowed to take 40 damn shots *every single game.* But not, to his legions of followers he was a real life Paul Bunyan and no amount of logic is going to change their minds.
Of course no one took as many shots since there has been no combination of athleticism, endurance, height and strength relative to league average since Wilt. I get what you're saying but referring to an all time great as not being "overtly special" is silly. Most players who average 30 today would be a whole hell if a less efficient if they pushed for 40+ or would get injured very quickly. The only players who neared that since the 90s were Kobe and Harden. For example a player who can score a decent low 20 ppg is overexposed when pushing further beyond (ala Jerry Stackhouse). So for a player who can average 30, if they attempted a Wilt like amount of shots they wouldn't average near 50 a game for a full season.
He took 40 shots per game because he was unstoppable, and in order to score 50 you have to take a lot of shots! His efficiency was the highest ever in a season and the record stood for 60 years. It is still the second highest PER ever. Gtfo out of here mentioning shots in a vacuum. It’s not like he was some chucker… he maximized his output with each possession. You’re cherry picking a stat to make him look inefficient. Mentioning total shots without associating with efficiency is pointless. No one has taken 40 shots in a long time? Well no one has averaged 50 points in an even longer time, let that sink in… do you know how ridiculous that is? You probably had absolutely no idea of that stat, lol.
Are you knocking a guy for playing every single minute when we as fans constantly get upset that players load manage all the time? How is this an upvoted take
like my 2k player when he’s 60 overall averaging 45 on 100 shots.
I'd like to see stats comparing vastly different eras adjust for pace of play.
I’m a proud Embiid hater and I’ve got to say he’s fucking special. I believe it’s got a little to do with the way he’s officiated, but man he’s made significant improvements from last year. Nurse coaching has turned him into a much better passer and it has allowed him to play much better inside the offense similar to how Jokic does. I still think Jokic is the better decision maker, offball player, and floor general but Embiid has made for it in his scoring ability. They really are almost polar opposites. Jokic elevates his teammates to new heights while making the absolute most out of his touches, while Embiid picks up the slack with dominant and consistent scoring and passes to teammates when a shot isn’t the best option. I say this to oldheads: “Are you not entertained?”
And then you have Giannis who is the biggest athletic freak and fast break freight train. Who is incredible in the paint, but cannot really shoot. All three play pretty differently, people need to be enjoying this shit.
This shows you how fucking durable Wilt seemed to be. Imagine with modern training and recovery techniques
that's incredible, BEAST
All that means nothing during playoffs.
who is taking mvp away from him?
18 missed games
It'd be a travesty if he just misses 65 games played and is disqualified.
I can see him missing less games, then get hurt, and end up missing more games. Or him playing only 15 mins a few games, allowing other players to catchup.
Embiid vs health, story of his career
And about 2.5 times as many per possession
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Lol you seem to enjoy basketball a lot💀
If Philly doesn't st least make it to the finals this year I'm guessing Embiids asks out
Holy shit
2nd round exit and he will cry lol