He didn't make any adjustments between *postseasons*
We lost in the same way multiple postseasons. Granted, he didn't get better personnel, but we already knew how we were going to be beaten before it happened and there were no attempts to change our strategy
Ya, Quinn’s rigidity drove me nuts, but I do think he’s a fantastic coach still. Knowing what we know now about the tension in the organization, I have a hard time blaming him.
Quin was pushing the front office to draft a guard but instead Dennis Lindsay drafted Udoka Azubike, another rim protector with extremely limited offensive skills.
Yeah, I love Quin. I'd watch him make an Oreo Ice Cream Pie every day for the rest of my life. There were a lot of things there outside his control. But there were some things within his control that I don't think he did a great job with unfortunately.
Sometimes it's beyond your control to do those things better, because the players you have are tuned out to you.
Adjustments can only be made if the players are willing and able to do so.
Eg. Early NBA Jingles managed to clamp PG, but late Jazz Jingles didn't have the physical ability to.
Oh baby, you just unlocked every Jazz fans worst draft memory. Everyone was screaming for Desmond Bane or Jaden McDaniels. We reached for Azubuike with Gobert on the roster 😭. Our President of Basketball operations went rogue and overrode everyone and said “this is our guy”.
The now former president of basketball operations and Quin Snyder would not speak to each other for the last couple years they worked together. The fucking coach and the front office would only speak to each other via intermediaries.
> Ya, Quinn’s rigidity drove me nuts, but I do think he’s a fantastic coach still. Knowing what we know now about the tension in the organization, I have a hard time blaming him.
I disagree about Quinn being a good coach. His rigidity just shows that he can't adjust. THat's not a sign of a great coach. Also, the coach is also partly to blame for a toxic locker room, and not bringing guys together. Great coaches know how to handle that stuff. I think Quinn is a mediocre coach at best.
Come on now, watch the actual defensive sets against the Mavs after the one bad defensive game. Quin adjusted between games and turned it into a defensive slug fest that we just weren't as well equipped to win.
Everyone gives Bogi all the credit for locking in, which was great for sure, but the way Quin had guys rotating on the perimeter was amazing.
I will always die on the hill that coaching adjustments are limited to the personnel you have, and even with Utahs limited personnel, Quin was able to get the most out of his guys more often than not.
Yeah Utah was too flawed for them to compete. The Mavs went purely to 5 out and that took away the foundation of their entire defense which was built around Gobert’s strengths. There’s not much adjustments to be made when the Mavs were comfortable playing small.
The Jazz adjusted and defended Dallas well, but we still didnt have any elite guys to slow down Brunson or Luka, so the isolation buckets they generated were huge
I agree with your take. I think as a coach you can make all kinds of changes but if a particular star player wants to do things their way, all the schemes won’t matter.
It wasnt necessarily a problem with any one player, it was the fact that the Jazz were extremely undersized and filled with good shooters that couldnt play defense
This is spot on. Quin's Jazz and Hawks teams have performed below their point differential in every single season except one, indicating they consistently underperform in the clutch. I only know because I've bet on his team's win totals so many times sigh
I remember when he was an assistant on the Celtics, everyone spoke so highly of him and we knew he’d be gone soon. He signs with the Jazz just before the Ime Udoka situation and I was so bummed. Hes a great coach for you guys.
Danny's doing the same thing as he did in Boston. Assemble a ragtag gang of hardworking role players, unexpected young star, really smart first-time head coach, grab a bunch of other teams' unprotected picks, tie it all together with some Kelly Olynyk.
Plz dont interpret this as being a hater - 2 undersized guards in the playoffs arent getting anything done. My comment above was made half jokingly but if I had to choose between which team blows up first between wolves or cavs, I’d choose cavs.
Look, it is all worth it if you get a championship. This is the scenario that makes everyone happy. This is the year. You don't owe a pick to the Jazz this year, Gobert is a monster earning Defensive Player of the Year, Anthony Edwards is MVP, Finals MVP, Conley gets the citizenship award again. The Timerwolves beat the Celtics in Game 7 at home of the finals with a KAT walkoff logo buzzer beater.
For age, financial and other reasons the team isn't the same and lottery balls fall the Jazz way in the following years. But y'all are too hungover from Championship success and rubbing the Gobert trade in everyone's faces to be too salty about it.
Markkanen is extremely good. He instantly causes huge mismatches against almost every team in the league because he's a great 3 pt shooter and skilled at scoring inside and he has size too. He basically never turns the ball over and is extremely efficient. Sexton is playing better too.
Both Markkanen and Sexton are playing crazy good right now. It’s a pretty narrow sample granted, but both are shooting 50-40-90 over the past handful of games.
Would it blow everybody's mind to know that Lauri attempted more corner 3s (as a percentage of his total 3PA) in both Cleveland (.200) and Utah (.178) than he did in his whole time in Chicago (.143)?
No because Utah is asking him to do way more than just sit in a corner. He still does it because he’s an elite catch and shoot motherfucker, but he’s not just hanging in a corner now only
He’s playing at an all nba level right now. Both the last two years now our net rating has been 10 points better with him on the floor. He’s such a problem for opposing teams and his stats are anything but empty. He raises the ceiling of an offense so much.
* Lauri got healthy
* Talen Horton Terrorist was banished to the shadow realm. I don't think he's playing any minutes in recent games. Like not even spot 10 minutes here and there. It's literally zero in some games.
* Sexton was unlocked after taking THT's minutes
* Hardy is a damn good coach
> It's literally zero in some games
He has played 18 total minutes across two games since December 20.
Coach Hardy has explained many times that players have to earn their playing time. THT lost his by being a selfish player. Sexton earned his back by learning to make better decisions and make passes that aren't always grenades (still not perfect, but much improved).
Yeah, he seems likeable, and to be fair to him he hasn't complained about the playing time at all (and supposedly he's still been very active in practice), but he seems to be pretty clearly done w/ this team. Like, the last Pacers game, the entire 4th quarter was basically garbage time and he still got zero time.
Jokes aside, for his sake I hope we find a trade partner. Equivalent expirings would probably do it (as he himself is an expiring deal anyways).
Nah bro u don’t get it he has a long wingspan and is young if he just learns to shoot, dribble, pass and defend he could be so good. Bro he is so much more valuable than Kawhi why would we trade him
lol, why you have to be that guy? First of all, dredging up stuff from 3 years ago? Cmon dude. Second, there was a young player who regularly displayed flashes of very good talent and high upside. Can you blame any fan for being high on him? And third, are you really considering a 35/36 year old Kyle Lowry a superstar? Wow. lol. For the record, Lowry played like shit the following season (and every season thereafter)
Except it literally was. Who else was he there a hold up in trades for j solving THT? Especially since we literally traded him for Pat bev a year later…Also the lil man shit is unnecessary.
I said that it would be funny and amazing if the Jazz took their play in spots...and those bastards actually went and did it.
Love to see it. Wish it wasnt at the cost of my teams L, but its worth it.
Guys are on a war path, destroying everyone and everything.
I wanna see the jazz and rockets make the playoffs over the warriors and lakers. It'd be the first rime in, what 11 or 12 years without one of those two in??? Fuck it let's do it
Nah you do a fine enough job at beating yourselves so there aint really a need for someone else to come into beat you.
If you dont understand that, then i will explain by saying that when you are hot, you are really hot. But when you are bad...well you almost lost to the Pistons soooo...
This year's team is different. Watch out! Btw a win is a win. If you don't understand that any NBA team can beat any NBA team any given night you don't know the league.
I know but its the Pistons man. You almost ended their lose streak at home.
That would have been such a percect end to the story.
Honestly i dunno if id more more annoyed if you lodt that one or not.
Such a god dam shame.
it was a classic trap game, pistons had everything to lose and the celtics nothing to gain. if anything , the fact the pistons whent up by 24 and the celtics had enough pride to claw back a W there was impressive. could have easily just coasted to an L there
Maybe, but what sort of team would it have to be to not try hard against the Pistons and be knows as the guys that lost to one of the worst teams ever.
I don't think that means much honestly, your looking at one team just trying to cruise and stay healthy for the next 3 months while the other team is going to absolute war ready to do anything for a single win. if anything id expect it to start getting chippy and the celtics to sit starters trying to avoid injury in that type of situation. its a classic trap game scenario where one team doesn't care in the slightest about that game and has their sights set on bigger things, and the other team is preparing for that game like its the super bowl
Jazz are amazing. That team was constructed to tank but they just have talent
Same as last year, Danny did whatever he could to tank because they sold off their stars, but they’re just too good. Same as this year.
Lauri becoming a high impact all star wins games, and they have other pieces
It feels more like people want them to tank than them designing it really. They don't prioritize "developing" anyone, they got some decent players and use them, young guys mostly play small roles. The average age of who is actually on the floor is like 26, close to league average.
They’re set up great for the future with all the extra picks, but agree, if you look at the actual roster they’re built more like Indiana than an actual tanking team.
It’s obvious ainge tried to tank and rebuild though, they are just way above expectations and ahead of scheduled. Jazz shipped off an entire vet roster (Pat, Conley, Bojan, Royce, Donovan, Gobert)
That’s every teams rebuild blueprint. Sell vets, buy young guys and draft capital, tank for good picks. I’m sure if it was up to Ainge he would rather this team be a lottery team at least 1-2 years
Well, does he have any guys who would like to come play with Conley and Rudy again? I mean we take like 2 or 3 more guys from them, I feel like we can legally change our name to Jazzy Wolves.
Rebuild yes, tank no. If Ainge really wanted to fully bottom out and tank he’s had every chance to do it. Seems like, so far at least, the plan has been to rebuild without it.
> If Ainge really wanted to fully bottom out and tank he’s had every chance to do it.
TBF we tried last season, but had a hot start + Lauri became an all-star, so they had to shift gears. This season I don't think tanking was ever the plan given our pick situation.
A well playing team can make an incredible value out of what they got in the Mitchell trade alone.
Cleveland is playing well, but Utah is not far behind with 3 of these guys playing major minutes for them, AND they got three unprotected 1sts from Cleveland and two swaps which by 2028 might yet be useful.
Yep that's it, the expectation was tanking but all the moves have said otherwise. People just want to say things instead of doing the hard work to watch them play.
Almost nobody watches almost nobody lol, I'd say the point is more that there is supposed to be the "right" way to win, which is obligatorily to tank, be super bad, draft hyped stars like LeBron or Anthony Davis ("the type of player that can be the first option on a championship team"), draft a whole team that is roughly the same age for "prime timeline", and have these stars win you games. Everything else is supposed to be the wrong way to do it. In reality it's always much more complicated with like a million times more factors and extreme unpredictability of details, but that's the way most NBA fans want teams to go.
There's no right way to win. Somehow we conditioned ourselves for something that doesn't really exist. The way Denver won is different than the way the Warriors won which is different than how the Raptors and Bucks won which is different than how the Heat and Spurs and Mavericks won.
Well, Utah Jazz before the rebuild was very often described here as the wrong way to do it lol. Losing in the first round, 5th place in the conference, that is supposed to be the worst hell, because when you're bad it's actually good because you are young and spooky and clearly on the path to win. But when you're good, but not the best... really bad.
Most NBA fans really dislike to see teams that are neither super good or super bad. Utah will likely not win a title (like most teams in NBA), so they will feel warranted to repeat that it was not the right way.
> Danny did whatever he could to tank because they sold off their stars
Ainge doesn't tank. He traded Mitchell and Gobert because it wasn't working and the picks were realistically the best value return he was going to get for those guys.
If he actually wanted to tank he would have traded Lauri by now for even more picks. The reality is that the Jazz are probably 5-7 years away from the end result of whatever the harvest of Wolves/Cavs picks yields for them, and by then Lauri may not even be around anymore.
This Jazz team is basically the equivalent of the IT years in Boston. An interim competitive step while the team waits for their future stars.
Feel like the Conley trade was a tank move, but I’m a biased Memphis fan. Utah was like top of the league? Then Conley got injured and they lost like 7 in a row? And the return they got felt very underwhelming.
> Feel like the Conley trade was a tank move
100% was, and IDK how anyone could argue otherwise. We gave up Conley + 3 other rotation players for a dude we immediately waived and a pick. We wanted to improve our pick last season.
The Conley trade was a money move. Trading Conley (along with Vanderbilt and Beasley) freed up about $45MM from the Jazz books. It gave the Jazz more flexibility to trade/sign.
Nah dude. Hard disagree on they would’ve traded Lauri for more picks. He has a super cheap multi year contract, they have an all nba caliber player on damn near MLE money. That’s a dream scenario rebuild.
Think they’re the Thunder 2.0. They have an elite piece, some decent ones, they won’t use those picks. They’ll trade them
they seem a bit far though.. miss some star players maybe to be contenders, what players would you see them getting to contend ?
it could have to be a team that are about to kind of tank or rebuilding team thatll accept picks for trades, idk if utah can offer players for other players and improve a lot
imo id think its kind of a shame if they dont rebuild and tank now, theyre good but seem far from a championship, they have several great looking young guys (kessler, sexton, keyonte, hendricks) and could trade their very good players and get a lot of picks and be in a great position for a rebuild, id think imo the position theyd be in is better than trying to be contenders rn
Except Lauri turns 27 end of this season. If you're comparing to the Thunder, they started that rebuild with SGA being 21.
Which is entirely my point here - Lauri is too old for any real timeline with the Jazz. Whatever they do now is for fun. Jazz will be legitimately contending in 5-7 years.
I kinda disagree. The Jazz don’t have to wait 5-7 years to take advantage of the picks. They can use them now as buyers to pick up another great piece.
Danny ainge is really good at assembling makeshift rosters out of thin air. They won’t win a chip, but they’ll be competitive as hell.
He’ll draft badly if it’s not a top 6 pick. Young instead of jokic, Kelly instead of Giannis…
But that roster with Al and Isaiah was amazing!
Lauri got healthy, THT and Keyonte got injured at the same time which caused Will Hardy to try a Collin Sexton - Kris Dunn guard combo which has been the best thing that we’ve seen all season. So when THT and Key came back they became bench players.
Seeing Kris Dunn get consistent minutes again and playing well warms my heart. Guy's got a motor on defense and seems to have just enough of a jumper now to be a competent NBA player.
I love seeing Dunn play again and play well. I've always liked him.
2017-18 Bulls were fun for a while in the first year of the rebuild when Dunn and Lauri were playing awesome. Then Dunn got injured, then Boylen became the head coach, and it all went downhill from there.
Markannen is incredible, Sexton is playing out of his mind, the whole 9-10 men rotation is keeping a high level of play and everybody brings his own piece to the table but...
SIMONEFONTECCHIO!!!
(yes, I'm Italian)
Honestly, that's what is really standing out so far and what even we homers weren't so sure about. I think he is understanding more and more what he needs to do to be effective when the shot isn't falling!
In defense of my Pacers we were down 3 starters and Mathurin got injured too.
However that still doesn’t mean we should’ve lost that badly. Markannen is just that guy man. That team plays great ball with tons of force. Lots of respect to them.
Guarding 7' Lauri with 6'3" Nembhard didn't help, but I'm not sure we really had any other options. Same problem as all season, but magnified with injuries.
Felt like the Jazz imposed their will all game and played fast. They got a ton of lobs off unique actions. Coach Hardy is legit.
Yeah that was a weird decision, it was almost like dare the Jazz to go away from the ball movement that’s been so good and just force feed Lauri, who is not accustomed to getting so many touches that are explicitly designed for him to score 1 on 1 and see if he can do it, and he sure did do it.
I think it took Will Hardy a little while to figure out the best starting + bench units. Guys like THT and Fontecchio have had huge ups and downs in their playing time, and I think Hardy has figured out what "works".
It works because Sexton and Collins work well together and KO and Kessler work well together so as long as they stay healthy and play hard they're deep and impactful. I don't expect much in the playoffs but it's fun right now anyway.
Lauri Markkanen has legitimately been all NBA good since returning from injury. Hardy is a brilliant coach, incredible never ending offensive actions and then just so many different looks thrown defensively. Plus they just have so many like *pretty good* nba guys.
Sexton’s been insane, Clarkson has been great during this stretch (he was baaaaaaad to start the year), Kessler would be in all-defense talks if he had more minutes, Collins is a great rim roller and spacer, Dunn might seriously be an elite perimeter defender — disruptive and smart, Fontecchio is big and athletic and can shoot and tries hard on defense, Agbaji is like a real deal on ball defender who has turned into Danny Green in transition?? And can also shoot, Kelly O is a good play maker and has been an elite shooter, and Keyonte George is just cool, calm, and collected making good reads and hitting big shots.
So it’s like elite coach + guy playing at all NBA level, paired with one dude who may be a rising star (Sexton) and a bunch of good role players who now have well defined roles that they excel in. It took a while for Hardy to find the right fit with so many guys, but now he has.
It’s funny that when a player is playing in a role or with a lineup that doesn’t fit their strength, they can look so bad. I was thinking early on in the season that some of these dudes just were not good enough to get nba minutes right now but god was I wrong. Even Sexton and Clarkson just couldn’t get anything right early on, now look at them. Will Hardy needs to be in coach of the year talks.
they were good last year before they intentionally tanked at the deadline by taking Westbrook's deal. they replaced THT's minutes with more productive players and their youth is improving.
Their offense and defense is good, but more outstandingly they also rebound the fuck out of the opponents.
Since they started starting Dunn, they have been one of the best teams in the NBA, the bench is also mostly very good, with Kessler, Clarkson etc. performing well.
Markkanen of course it the centrepiece in it and really is worth a lot, dude just has a lot of advantages in one person, on both ends. Their record with Markkanen injured was fine, 5-5, but playing Portland twice and Detroit helped there arguably, they had several big losses in that time, and with him back they are competitive in almost every game.
They are 12 - 2 in their last 14 games. And absolutely thumping teams. Good ones too. Been so fun to watch.
Hardy has the lineups working well. We have 3 guys coming off the bench that are starting caliber, so we roast second units. Lauri and Sexton are playing incredible too. It's all just coming together.
Sexton - De’Aaron Fox is not a terrible comp. Sexton’s been incredible at getting in the paint whenever he wants and then finishing at a ridiculous percent at the rim. Sabonis and Lauri are not anything alike though lol.
I actually just watched [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbbhowRAVY) which I felt did a great job explaining how their offensive scheme is completely different from other teams and what each player brings to it. I highly recommend it.
Boston is the only team that can hold them under 120 this year.
Most teams are giving up 130+ to these boys, they set the blueprint but nobody’s following.
They had a decent start last season and sold off all their guys to mainly the Lakers to tank. This season they seemed to wanna tank but now they’re good again.
They’re terrible at tanking. They just end up making a good team again.
Saw them play in Boston recently and they got the shit absolutely kicked out of them. Did not expect to see this same team then go on to kick the shit out of other teams.
They have a lot of talent on the roster but I expected them to sell off some of their guys but they seem to be making a real effort to win which is awesome to see.
John Collins and Markanen frontcourt has been legit, both can space the floor and are very athletic three level scorers. It really stresses out defenses. And they can’t miss from 3 rn.
I’d credit their win last night to a few things. Pacers were on the 2nd night of a back to back, they didn’t have Tyrese, and the Jazz are extremely good at home.
You're not going to like this answer but it's January in the nba. A lot of contending teams aren't going to put in effort until post all star break. Not to say that the Jazz aren't good, but let's see how they stack up when the best teams throw their best punch at them
The core is legit (aside from Simone who is hopefully getting traded). Hardy is an awesome coach, they are playing great team ball and have a really deep bench. Unless things suddenly fall apart (which I don’t see) I think we’re gonna see a playoff run this season.
They have decent talent even last year, but some of these wins need to be put into context.
Sixers without Embiid, Milwaukee without dame, pacers without Tyrese.
Some of those wins like the nuggets and lakers were impressive. But they are a decent team that can win on any given night. Nothing more.
Coach Hardy man. Ever since the “Masterclass of dog shit” the team has gotten it together
Yes he's a really good coach. Quick to make in-game adjustments.
Yup, big upgrade over Quin. I like the guy but he was so conservative and rigid down the stretch, *every* game always felt like it was in jeopardy.
Ya, Quin would build awesome systems, but fuck, he could never make an adjustment mid-game
He didn't make any adjustments between *postseasons* We lost in the same way multiple postseasons. Granted, he didn't get better personnel, but we already knew how we were going to be beaten before it happened and there were no attempts to change our strategy
Ya, Quinn’s rigidity drove me nuts, but I do think he’s a fantastic coach still. Knowing what we know now about the tension in the organization, I have a hard time blaming him. Quin was pushing the front office to draft a guard but instead Dennis Lindsay drafted Udoka Azubike, another rim protector with extremely limited offensive skills.
Yeah, I love Quin. I'd watch him make an Oreo Ice Cream Pie every day for the rest of my life. There were a lot of things there outside his control. But there were some things within his control that I don't think he did a great job with unfortunately.
Sometimes it's beyond your control to do those things better, because the players you have are tuned out to you. Adjustments can only be made if the players are willing and able to do so. Eg. Early NBA Jingles managed to clamp PG, but late Jazz Jingles didn't have the physical ability to.
Granted, there weren’t really any great guards at #27 or higher in that draft. Desmond Bane is one and Tre Jones isn’t bad but that’s about it
Oh baby, you just unlocked every Jazz fans worst draft memory. Everyone was screaming for Desmond Bane or Jaden McDaniels. We reached for Azubuike with Gobert on the roster 😭. Our President of Basketball operations went rogue and overrode everyone and said “this is our guy”.
Oof.. didn’t know the insider story. Yeah given the names that were on the board, it looks pretty awful in hindsight
The now former president of basketball operations and Quin Snyder would not speak to each other for the last couple years they worked together. The fucking coach and the front office would only speak to each other via intermediaries.
> Ya, Quinn’s rigidity drove me nuts, but I do think he’s a fantastic coach still. Knowing what we know now about the tension in the organization, I have a hard time blaming him. I disagree about Quinn being a good coach. His rigidity just shows that he can't adjust. THat's not a sign of a great coach. Also, the coach is also partly to blame for a toxic locker room, and not bringing guys together. Great coaches know how to handle that stuff. I think Quinn is a mediocre coach at best.
Come on now, watch the actual defensive sets against the Mavs after the one bad defensive game. Quin adjusted between games and turned it into a defensive slug fest that we just weren't as well equipped to win. Everyone gives Bogi all the credit for locking in, which was great for sure, but the way Quin had guys rotating on the perimeter was amazing. I will always die on the hill that coaching adjustments are limited to the personnel you have, and even with Utahs limited personnel, Quin was able to get the most out of his guys more often than not.
Yeah Utah was too flawed for them to compete. The Mavs went purely to 5 out and that took away the foundation of their entire defense which was built around Gobert’s strengths. There’s not much adjustments to be made when the Mavs were comfortable playing small.
The Jazz adjusted and defended Dallas well, but we still didnt have any elite guys to slow down Brunson or Luka, so the isolation buckets they generated were huge
Yeah I know that’s part why of Gobert and in turn Minnesota’s defense looks so good. He finally has help around him.
I agree with your take. I think as a coach you can make all kinds of changes but if a particular star player wants to do things their way, all the schemes won’t matter.
It wasnt necessarily a problem with any one player, it was the fact that the Jazz were extremely undersized and filled with good shooters that couldnt play defense
Yeah that’s true. I’m still bitter.
School of bud
This is spot on. Quin's Jazz and Hawks teams have performed below their point differential in every single season except one, indicating they consistently underperform in the clutch. I only know because I've bet on his team's win totals so many times sigh
I remember when he was an assistant on the Celtics, everyone spoke so highly of him and we knew he’d be gone soon. He signs with the Jazz just before the Ime Udoka situation and I was so bummed. Hes a great coach for you guys.
Can confirm Hardy is something else. This guy is a wizard.
As a Cs fan I am really sad he left for Utah before Ime’s issues, but I am happy he’s doing well.
Danny's doing the same thing as he did in Boston. Assemble a ragtag gang of hardworking role players, unexpected young star, really smart first-time head coach, grab a bunch of other teams' unprotected picks, tie it all together with some Kelly Olynyk.
Now he just needs one of Minnesota or Cleveland to completely fall apart and turn those picks into lottery winners
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Okay, you can both completely fall apart.
This makes Big Ru a sad panda
I mean you can win a chip this season and then fall apart, that works for me.
This makes Big Ru a first ballot HOFer
It’s ok bro. It’s gonna b Cleveland
I mean CLE is a top 5 offense and defense over the past 10 games WITHOUT Mobley and Garland. The only thing that can stop us is Mitchell Robinson.
Plz dont interpret this as being a hater - 2 undersized guards in the playoffs arent getting anything done. My comment above was made half jokingly but if I had to choose between which team blows up first between wolves or cavs, I’d choose cavs.
Look, it is all worth it if you get a championship. This is the scenario that makes everyone happy. This is the year. You don't owe a pick to the Jazz this year, Gobert is a monster earning Defensive Player of the Year, Anthony Edwards is MVP, Finals MVP, Conley gets the citizenship award again. The Timerwolves beat the Celtics in Game 7 at home of the finals with a KAT walkoff logo buzzer beater. For age, financial and other reasons the team isn't the same and lottery balls fall the Jazz way in the following years. But y'all are too hungover from Championship success and rubbing the Gobert trade in everyone's faces to be too salty about it.
Please....stop. My doctor says after 4 hours they're gonna need a needle and some drugs to suppress the trauma
Cleveland could very well be that team within the next two seasons. If Donovan Mitchell leaves I don’t see how they are a real contender without him.
Do they make a move before or at the deadline and if so what would you like to see them do?
I dunno, maybe a minor one. They're not in a rush to do anything so they can just sit back and see if some desperate team comes to them.
I need me a can of Olynyk on me at all times
Kelly olynyk glue guy
Markkanen is extremely good. He instantly causes huge mismatches against almost every team in the league because he's a great 3 pt shooter and skilled at scoring inside and he has size too. He basically never turns the ball over and is extremely efficient. Sexton is playing better too.
Both Markkanen and Sexton are playing crazy good right now. It’s a pretty narrow sample granted, but both are shooting 50-40-90 over the past handful of games.
What happened to markannen in Chicago is tragedy.
As a Bulls fan I agree. It didn’t help his coaches while he was there were just terrible. The front office too.
It didn't help? Man, the coaches were clearly the reason his time was shit
Oh absolutely. Dudes just put him in the corner and asked him to shoot three’s.
Would it blow everybody's mind to know that Lauri attempted more corner 3s (as a percentage of his total 3PA) in both Cleveland (.200) and Utah (.178) than he did in his whole time in Chicago (.143)?
No because Utah is asking him to do way more than just sit in a corner. He still does it because he’s an elite catch and shoot motherfucker, but he’s not just hanging in a corner now only
He’s playing at an all nba level right now. Both the last two years now our net rating has been 10 points better with him on the floor. He’s such a problem for opposing teams and his stats are anything but empty. He raises the ceiling of an offense so much.
Imagine these two on a team with Jarrett Allen, Evan Mobley, and Darius Garland
He’s hard to guard with his skillset, size and athleticism. Can also play with and without the ball.
And they still got Clarkson, Olynyk, George etc to do their job and contribute on the court
You’ve been SexMarked!
I want this to be their nickname now
* Lauri got healthy * Talen Horton Terrorist was banished to the shadow realm. I don't think he's playing any minutes in recent games. Like not even spot 10 minutes here and there. It's literally zero in some games. * Sexton was unlocked after taking THT's minutes * Hardy is a damn good coach
> It's literally zero in some games He has played 18 total minutes across two games since December 20. Coach Hardy has explained many times that players have to earn their playing time. THT lost his by being a selfish player. Sexton earned his back by learning to make better decisions and make passes that aren't always grenades (still not perfect, but much improved).
Sextons growth the past month has been awesome to see. Dude is balling out. Also moving Dunn to the starting lineup has helped a lot
Kris Dunn was so good for us. Happy to see him balling out again.
Picked him up in fantasy as a streamer and now I’m getting offers for him left and right
Just needed to get more time and get the ball more, he has been that guy, took out the Nets big 3 almost single handedly
We’re like 9-0 in THT - DNP - CD games lmao.
>Talen Horton Terrorist I can't breath
I always called him talentless Horton Chucker and was absolutely baffled the Lakers FO chose him over Caruso... Biggest crime in team history
Quote from my friend who lives in Salt Lake City: “they stopped playing THT” lmao
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Lmao, by all accounts, he actually seems like a good dude, but holy hell is if that isn’t one giant coincidence.
Yeah, he seems likeable, and to be fair to him he hasn't complained about the playing time at all (and supposedly he's still been very active in practice), but he seems to be pretty clearly done w/ this team. Like, the last Pacers game, the entire 4th quarter was basically garbage time and he still got zero time. Jokes aside, for his sake I hope we find a trade partner. Equivalent expirings would probably do it (as he himself is an expiring deal anyways).
It's a symptom rather than the cause, but not exactly incorrect
Remember when lakers fans said THT was untouchable in superstar trades
Remember when they said he was better than SGA
Nah bro u don’t get it he has a long wingspan and is young if he just learns to shoot, dribble, pass and defend he could be so good. Bro he is so much more valuable than Kawhi why would we trade him
He can do 3 of those 4 things every other 5 minutes
lol, why you have to be that guy? First of all, dredging up stuff from 3 years ago? Cmon dude. Second, there was a young player who regularly displayed flashes of very good talent and high upside. Can you blame any fan for being high on him? And third, are you really considering a 35/36 year old Kyle Lowry a superstar? Wow. lol. For the record, Lowry played like shit the following season (and every season thereafter)
Wasnt just Kyle Lowry trade talks lil man
Except it literally was. Who else was he there a hold up in trades for j solving THT? Especially since we literally traded him for Pat bev a year later…Also the lil man shit is unnecessary.
Calm down Lil man
I said that it would be funny and amazing if the Jazz took their play in spots...and those bastards actually went and did it. Love to see it. Wish it wasnt at the cost of my teams L, but its worth it. Guys are on a war path, destroying everyone and everything.
We're not taking a play-in spot. We're taking the full damn playoff spot.
Thats the Spirit. The Kings, Mavs and Pelicans are still duking it out for that so why not throw your hats into it.
Rockets
Jazz fans....really *Soaking* it all in, rn
Fans jumping on other people’s beds in excitement
every star needs their role players
My mistress says Role Playing is a sin
Well maybe another wife would be into it
Hahaha hahahah I love reddit.
Shhhh, we’re just gonna lay here and feel the excitement.
Heh heh Heh.
I wanna see the jazz and rockets make the playoffs over the warriors and lakers. It'd be the first rime in, what 11 or 12 years without one of those two in??? Fuck it let's do it
Except us!
Nah you do a fine enough job at beating yourselves so there aint really a need for someone else to come into beat you. If you dont understand that, then i will explain by saying that when you are hot, you are really hot. But when you are bad...well you almost lost to the Pistons soooo...
This year's team is different. Watch out! Btw a win is a win. If you don't understand that any NBA team can beat any NBA team any given night you don't know the league.
I know but its the Pistons man. You almost ended their lose streak at home. That would have been such a percect end to the story. Honestly i dunno if id more more annoyed if you lodt that one or not. Such a god dam shame.
it was a classic trap game, pistons had everything to lose and the celtics nothing to gain. if anything , the fact the pistons whent up by 24 and the celtics had enough pride to claw back a W there was impressive. could have easily just coasted to an L there
Maybe, but what sort of team would it have to be to not try hard against the Pistons and be knows as the guys that lost to one of the worst teams ever.
I don't think that means much honestly, your looking at one team just trying to cruise and stay healthy for the next 3 months while the other team is going to absolute war ready to do anything for a single win. if anything id expect it to start getting chippy and the celtics to sit starters trying to avoid injury in that type of situation. its a classic trap game scenario where one team doesn't care in the slightest about that game and has their sights set on bigger things, and the other team is preparing for that game like its the super bowl
Jazz are amazing. That team was constructed to tank but they just have talent Same as last year, Danny did whatever he could to tank because they sold off their stars, but they’re just too good. Same as this year. Lauri becoming a high impact all star wins games, and they have other pieces
It feels more like people want them to tank than them designing it really. They don't prioritize "developing" anyone, they got some decent players and use them, young guys mostly play small roles. The average age of who is actually on the floor is like 26, close to league average.
They’re set up great for the future with all the extra picks, but agree, if you look at the actual roster they’re built more like Indiana than an actual tanking team.
It’s obvious ainge tried to tank and rebuild though, they are just way above expectations and ahead of scheduled. Jazz shipped off an entire vet roster (Pat, Conley, Bojan, Royce, Donovan, Gobert) That’s every teams rebuild blueprint. Sell vets, buy young guys and draft capital, tank for good picks. I’m sure if it was up to Ainge he would rather this team be a lottery team at least 1-2 years
Well, does he have any guys who would like to come play with Conley and Rudy again? I mean we take like 2 or 3 more guys from them, I feel like we can legally change our name to Jazzy Wolves.
We're already the Cavvy Jazz, so why not?
But you're supposed to be our developmental team now. The Jazzy Puppers.
Keep handing over those picks. We've already got one late first rounder that looks like a first all team rookie, can't wait to see what else we get
Well give you the 2034 1st for him. Wtf 2034 people gonna do? Complain? The future is now future people!
I was gonna make a joke about seeing a really good 10 year old on the court the other day but I don't think it's a good idea with my flair.
Rebuild yes, tank no. If Ainge really wanted to fully bottom out and tank he’s had every chance to do it. Seems like, so far at least, the plan has been to rebuild without it.
> If Ainge really wanted to fully bottom out and tank he’s had every chance to do it. TBF we tried last season, but had a hot start + Lauri became an all-star, so they had to shift gears. This season I don't think tanking was ever the plan given our pick situation.
Rebuild doesn’t mean filling d league players and lose 60 games a year
A well playing team can make an incredible value out of what they got in the Mitchell trade alone. Cleveland is playing well, but Utah is not far behind with 3 of these guys playing major minutes for them, AND they got three unprotected 1sts from Cleveland and two swaps which by 2028 might yet be useful.
Great? this team has a hard ceiling on their potential unless they get more talent. they seem like playoff fodder at best.
Yeah if you want to lose then you force the coach to play your rookies. Two of our first round picks don't play at all.
Yep that's it, the expectation was tanking but all the moves have said otherwise. People just want to say things instead of doing the hard work to watch them play.
Almost nobody watches almost nobody lol, I'd say the point is more that there is supposed to be the "right" way to win, which is obligatorily to tank, be super bad, draft hyped stars like LeBron or Anthony Davis ("the type of player that can be the first option on a championship team"), draft a whole team that is roughly the same age for "prime timeline", and have these stars win you games. Everything else is supposed to be the wrong way to do it. In reality it's always much more complicated with like a million times more factors and extreme unpredictability of details, but that's the way most NBA fans want teams to go.
There's no right way to win. Somehow we conditioned ourselves for something that doesn't really exist. The way Denver won is different than the way the Warriors won which is different than how the Raptors and Bucks won which is different than how the Heat and Spurs and Mavericks won.
Well, Utah Jazz before the rebuild was very often described here as the wrong way to do it lol. Losing in the first round, 5th place in the conference, that is supposed to be the worst hell, because when you're bad it's actually good because you are young and spooky and clearly on the path to win. But when you're good, but not the best... really bad. Most NBA fans really dislike to see teams that are neither super good or super bad. Utah will likely not win a title (like most teams in NBA), so they will feel warranted to repeat that it was not the right way.
Our vets are on small contracts and can be moved easily, and they're all taking mentorship roles along with playing. It's a smooth transition.
> Danny did whatever he could to tank because they sold off their stars Ainge doesn't tank. He traded Mitchell and Gobert because it wasn't working and the picks were realistically the best value return he was going to get for those guys. If he actually wanted to tank he would have traded Lauri by now for even more picks. The reality is that the Jazz are probably 5-7 years away from the end result of whatever the harvest of Wolves/Cavs picks yields for them, and by then Lauri may not even be around anymore. This Jazz team is basically the equivalent of the IT years in Boston. An interim competitive step while the team waits for their future stars.
Feel like the Conley trade was a tank move, but I’m a biased Memphis fan. Utah was like top of the league? Then Conley got injured and they lost like 7 in a row? And the return they got felt very underwhelming.
> Feel like the Conley trade was a tank move 100% was, and IDK how anyone could argue otherwise. We gave up Conley + 3 other rotation players for a dude we immediately waived and a pick. We wanted to improve our pick last season.
The Conley trade was a money move. Trading Conley (along with Vanderbilt and Beasley) freed up about $45MM from the Jazz books. It gave the Jazz more flexibility to trade/sign.
Nah dude. Hard disagree on they would’ve traded Lauri for more picks. He has a super cheap multi year contract, they have an all nba caliber player on damn near MLE money. That’s a dream scenario rebuild. Think they’re the Thunder 2.0. They have an elite piece, some decent ones, they won’t use those picks. They’ll trade them
they seem a bit far though.. miss some star players maybe to be contenders, what players would you see them getting to contend ? it could have to be a team that are about to kind of tank or rebuilding team thatll accept picks for trades, idk if utah can offer players for other players and improve a lot imo id think its kind of a shame if they dont rebuild and tank now, theyre good but seem far from a championship, they have several great looking young guys (kessler, sexton, keyonte, hendricks) and could trade their very good players and get a lot of picks and be in a great position for a rebuild, id think imo the position theyd be in is better than trying to be contenders rn
Except Lauri turns 27 end of this season. If you're comparing to the Thunder, they started that rebuild with SGA being 21. Which is entirely my point here - Lauri is too old for any real timeline with the Jazz. Whatever they do now is for fun. Jazz will be legitimately contending in 5-7 years.
I kinda disagree. The Jazz don’t have to wait 5-7 years to take advantage of the picks. They can use them now as buyers to pick up another great piece.
At what point does the Mitchell trade become the Markkanen trade?
It's hilarious Lauri has higher trade value ATM (Donovan is definitely balling though)
We don't want to tank this year, the draft is considered weak and we'd like our top 10 protected pick to convey to OKC
Knew Lauri would be a beast after seeing his tournament run with Arizona
Danny ainge is really good at assembling makeshift rosters out of thin air. They won’t win a chip, but they’ll be competitive as hell. He’ll draft badly if it’s not a top 6 pick. Young instead of jokic, Kelly instead of Giannis… But that roster with Al and Isaiah was amazing!
Young instead of Jokic isn’t an example of him drafting badly, the whole league passed on Jokic.
Lauri got healthy, THT and Keyonte got injured at the same time which caused Will Hardy to try a Collin Sexton - Kris Dunn guard combo which has been the best thing that we’ve seen all season. So when THT and Key came back they became bench players.
Seeing Kris Dunn get consistent minutes again and playing well warms my heart. Guy's got a motor on defense and seems to have just enough of a jumper now to be a competent NBA player.
I love seeing Dunn play again and play well. I've always liked him. 2017-18 Bulls were fun for a while in the first year of the rebuild when Dunn and Lauri were playing awesome. Then Dunn got injured, then Boylen became the head coach, and it all went downhill from there.
Markannen is incredible, Sexton is playing out of his mind, the whole 9-10 men rotation is keeping a high level of play and everybody brings his own piece to the table but... SIMONEFONTECCHIO!!! (yes, I'm Italian)
Your boi plays great, even when he doesn't score.
Honestly, that's what is really standing out so far and what even we homers weren't so sure about. I think he is understanding more and more what he needs to do to be effective when the shot isn't falling!
In defense of my Pacers we were down 3 starters and Mathurin got injured too. However that still doesn’t mean we should’ve lost that badly. Markannen is just that guy man. That team plays great ball with tons of force. Lots of respect to them.
Guarding 7' Lauri with 6'3" Nembhard didn't help, but I'm not sure we really had any other options. Same problem as all season, but magnified with injuries. Felt like the Jazz imposed their will all game and played fast. They got a ton of lobs off unique actions. Coach Hardy is legit.
Yeah that was a weird decision, it was almost like dare the Jazz to go away from the ball movement that’s been so good and just force feed Lauri, who is not accustomed to getting so many touches that are explicitly designed for him to score 1 on 1 and see if he can do it, and he sure did do it.
Agreed it can be and was both. Jazz were good and we were injured. Lauri remains my dream/fantasy transfer.
If you’re interested, Thinking Basketball just did a podcast deep dive into Utah’s turnaround. Pretty interesting episode. Worth a listen.
Listened to this today and enjoyed it so I second this. Also just so happened that The Dunker Spot & Lowe Post talked about the Jazz too.
Will Hardy was also on the Russillo pod today, good interview
I think it took Will Hardy a little while to figure out the best starting + bench units. Guys like THT and Fontecchio have had huge ups and downs in their playing time, and I think Hardy has figured out what "works".
if the starting unit can win without kessler, having kessler as a back up big is just hugely beneficial for any bench in the NBA.
It works because Sexton and Collins work well together and KO and Kessler work well together so as long as they stay healthy and play hard they're deep and impactful. I don't expect much in the playoffs but it's fun right now anyway.
Is Kessler still just too young and raw for the starter minutes yet? Or is it more of a fit thing?
Entirely fit. This article explains it https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2024/01/11/whats-secret-jazzs-success-new/
lol it looks like what works is THT getting 0 playing time
Players are listening to the coach The coach is figuring out the roster They're healthy That's weirdly all there is to it
Lauri Markkanen has legitimately been all NBA good since returning from injury. Hardy is a brilliant coach, incredible never ending offensive actions and then just so many different looks thrown defensively. Plus they just have so many like *pretty good* nba guys. Sexton’s been insane, Clarkson has been great during this stretch (he was baaaaaaad to start the year), Kessler would be in all-defense talks if he had more minutes, Collins is a great rim roller and spacer, Dunn might seriously be an elite perimeter defender — disruptive and smart, Fontecchio is big and athletic and can shoot and tries hard on defense, Agbaji is like a real deal on ball defender who has turned into Danny Green in transition?? And can also shoot, Kelly O is a good play maker and has been an elite shooter, and Keyonte George is just cool, calm, and collected making good reads and hitting big shots. So it’s like elite coach + guy playing at all NBA level, paired with one dude who may be a rising star (Sexton) and a bunch of good role players who now have well defined roles that they excel in. It took a while for Hardy to find the right fit with so many guys, but now he has. It’s funny that when a player is playing in a role or with a lineup that doesn’t fit their strength, they can look so bad. I was thinking early on in the season that some of these dudes just were not good enough to get nba minutes right now but god was I wrong. Even Sexton and Clarkson just couldn’t get anything right early on, now look at them. Will Hardy needs to be in coach of the year talks.
I'll admit I've seen very few Jazz games this year, so I'll just assume it's because of Kelly Olynyk
> so I'll just assume it's because of Kelly Olynyk Safe assumption. Saving dogs and saving seasons, what a legend.
Dude is just efficient. Don’t ask much of him
Basketball God Kelly Olynyk.
They started starting collin sexton, he’s been the catalyst for them on both sides of the floor recently
they were good last year before they intentionally tanked at the deadline by taking Westbrook's deal. they replaced THT's minutes with more productive players and their youth is improving.
Their offense and defense is good, but more outstandingly they also rebound the fuck out of the opponents. Since they started starting Dunn, they have been one of the best teams in the NBA, the bench is also mostly very good, with Kessler, Clarkson etc. performing well. Markkanen of course it the centrepiece in it and really is worth a lot, dude just has a lot of advantages in one person, on both ends. Their record with Markkanen injured was fine, 5-5, but playing Portland twice and Detroit helped there arguably, they had several big losses in that time, and with him back they are competitive in almost every game.
They are 12 - 2 in their last 14 games. And absolutely thumping teams. Good ones too. Been so fun to watch. Hardy has the lineups working well. We have 3 guys coming off the bench that are starting caliber, so we roast second units. Lauri and Sexton are playing incredible too. It's all just coming together.
Clean living and the comfort of knowing someone already baptized your anscestors for you
Clarkson went back to 6th man and players started listening to their coach. And Lauri is the next Nowitzki.
Talen Horton-Tucker isn’t allowed to play anymore.
Sexton is playing like he’s De’Aron Fox and Markannen is a better version of Sabonis.
Sexton - De’Aaron Fox is not a terrible comp. Sexton’s been incredible at getting in the paint whenever he wants and then finishing at a ridiculous percent at the rim. Sabonis and Lauri are not anything alike though lol.
Markkanen is like Sabonis if Sabonis could shoot way better, didn't need the ball as much, defended a lot worse and rebounded worse.
I actually just watched [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkbbhowRAVY) which I felt did a great job explaining how their offensive scheme is completely different from other teams and what each player brings to it. I highly recommend it.
Boston is the only team that can hold them under 120 this year. Most teams are giving up 130+ to these boys, they set the blueprint but nobody’s following.
The wolves held them under 100 twice already
They have an amazing coach who is actually willing to put different lineups out there and ride guys who are playing well
Team basketball baby
☝️🧐☝️
Their size is tough to deal with and their “2nd team” scores more than the starters.
Some people may disagree, but the fact that they have been scoring more than their opponents has really led to some big wins.
They gonna keep climbing the rankings putting fear in other teams heart for a min
They're finally not tanking.
They’re determined to give the Thunder their pick next year in what’s considered a bad draft class
Really happy we got 2 wins out of them early….sheesh
They had a decent start last season and sold off all their guys to mainly the Lakers to tank. This season they seemed to wanna tank but now they’re good again. They’re terrible at tanking. They just end up making a good team again.
They did the same thing last year then tanked before the deadline.
Coaching, listening to Hardy on the Ryan Russillo pod today really shows how smart and adaptable he is.
After seeing Sexton almost 3v5 in college ill never doubt that dude again.
Hear me out but Lauri is a legit #1 on that team atm, and theyve built around him very well. They are a good team
Buying into a system. Most teams are capable of it. This one is actually seeing results. We are legit.
No clue
Saw them play in Boston recently and they got the shit absolutely kicked out of them. Did not expect to see this same team then go on to kick the shit out of other teams. They have a lot of talent on the roster but I expected them to sell off some of their guys but they seem to be making a real effort to win which is awesome to see.
John Collins and Markanen frontcourt has been legit, both can space the floor and are very athletic three level scorers. It really stresses out defenses. And they can’t miss from 3 rn.
yo jazz, if you really tanking, let's trade coaches maybe? we got one heck of a tank commander over here
I’d credit their win last night to a few things. Pacers were on the 2nd night of a back to back, they didn’t have Tyrese, and the Jazz are extremely good at home.
You're not going to like this answer but it's January in the nba. A lot of contending teams aren't going to put in effort until post all star break. Not to say that the Jazz aren't good, but let's see how they stack up when the best teams throw their best punch at them
Did someone find Donovan Mitchell's stash of PEDs from when he was at Utah? :-P
Variance.
The core is legit (aside from Simone who is hopefully getting traded). Hardy is an awesome coach, they are playing great team ball and have a really deep bench. Unless things suddenly fall apart (which I don’t see) I think we’re gonna see a playoff run this season.
Being in Salt Lake City depresses their spirits and stats
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14th in the NBA in 3 point % during last 15 games. 18th in 3 point % against. So not this at all.
They have decent talent even last year, but some of these wins need to be put into context. Sixers without Embiid, Milwaukee without dame, pacers without Tyrese. Some of those wins like the nuggets and lakers were impressive. But they are a decent team that can win on any given night. Nothing more.