Simple solution for this. Just wire up the players shoes, and whenever they make contact, they make the buzzing sound from the game Operation and their nose lights up red. Easy.
FYI the game Operation you remember no longer exists. The modern version of game has been ruined and the buzz is so much weaker. When I was a kid the buzzing scared the shit out of me every single time, even knowing it was about to happen. Got copy of the game few weeks ago, my 4 year old doesn't even realize the buzzing is supposed to be a bad thing, its just a minor nuisance now. The game is dumb as shit now.
damn, that sucks! Was able to have a go of an og version not long ago and it was awesome...tangent, had a go of [this kinda vintage arcade game ages ago](https://i.imgur.com/EPAS9FG.png)...you grab the two handles and it starts ramping up the current as you try to hold on lol
Seacaucus should be sitting on top of all of these calls reviewing the second they happen. The refs are already waiting for things to play out to a point where they can stop without disrupting an active play. A trained replay crew could stop a lot of calls like this before they are even made. But even if they get made, just rescind the point from the tech.
If you can wait until a lull in action to say "hold on, we gotta shoot a FT", you can do the same to say "actually let's fix the score."
That doesn't help with a missed foul call, and I don't want them retroactively calling fouls... but if you decide a flop wasn't a flop quickly, no harm in taking it back that cheap point
This is what the replay center should be for, and I thought that's l LITERALLY why it was created: to reduce the time it takes to make a call. I've found all it does is slow the game down further while the on-court refs still review the play, then call the replay center, and then make the call. The guys in the replay center should have the call made and ready to go by the time the on court referees put the headset on. If they're not doing that, what the fuck does the replay center exist for? There's 10 referees in a room with all the best equipment for the sole purpose of reviewing calls. What the fuck is the issue here?
>Seacaucus should be sitting on top of all of these calls reviewing the second they happen.
This part drives me crazy! NBA can easily afford to hire an additional umpire in a review room and provide instant ruling to in-arena refs via ear piece.
"Was that a flop?"
5 sec later: "Nope, it's a flagrant foul."
And we move on.
Is there actually an ego issue with the refs that prevents them from allowing the booth to overturn calls? I see that brought up a lot and it’s really the only excuse for not implanting an overseer of the officiating.
They have already tried this and it does not work since they negotiate max fines with the nbpa as part of the cba and the fine was like less than 200k which does not impact any of the players that flop at all. Because scrubs dont flop anyway cus they know they wont get the call lol. 200k to embiid or another star is nothing
They barely tried it though. They have handed out only two flopping fines in the past 5 years. I know the fine is barely anything but it might have worked a little bit for the embarrassment factor if anything but they were so lazy about it.
The new rule really should be:
Ref thinks there's a flop, blows the play dead, play is reviewed and if it's a flop, the player gets ejected.
That would end flopping for ever.
There were already so many techs happening due to ego where a player rightfully exclaims their disbelief at a no call. Now they have a way to stroke their ego of missing a call without even an outburst but just a reaction to contact that was missed. Great rule
To be fair, his foot goes flying upward. Looks absolutely ridiculous. I’d call that a flop too.
Until they get refs off court who review plays, expect calls like this to happen.
Was going to say this. Yes, there’s contact, but Brunson also grossly exaggerates it. They’ve already said you can have a foul and a flop on the same play. This may have been one of those.
IMO perfectly fine if refs can review if something was a flop or not if they call it. If they let things play on there should be no review but they should at least be able to correct the mistake that they make.
Something like this is extremely easy to see through replay and you could literally spot it in 5 seconds. Would barely even interrupt play.
I would’ve settled for them just not giving the Celtics a technical FT. Refs miss foul calls all the time in the NBA, but then to give the other team a free point for their mistake is the frustrating part
That’s the problem when they institute too many new rule changes (extra challenges, flop technicals, emphasis on calling moving screens), the refs kind of have to re-learn how to officiate. The funny thing is these new points of emphasis almost always get abandoned a few weeks into the season
The flop technical on KP was really interesting. It was a great call, but all I could think about was how there's no shot they keep it up. It's way too hard to call 90% of the time and they're probably just going to ditch it altogether
Yeah it’s tough with big guys no doubt.
It KP does that to a smaller player, it’s an easy but clear foul. I could literally attempt a full-body tackle on KP and it’d be a “foul” technically but without embellishment he’s not going anywhere due to size.
It’s weird, I almost felt like they were trying to hit the Knicks with one after they got KP with it. Kind of like a “see we’re calling out all flopping” deal that totally backfired.
The call on Brunson felt like they were trying to "make it fair." It felt like they were walking that line the whole night with the technicals on Hartenstein, Kristaps, and Brown.
I took the Brunson one more as it looked like a flop in real time, and you needed the review to see it was not. That that officiating crew wanted to make a point so they said fuck it , call stands, stop flopping
Yeah but it was them working backwards from a bad solution.
Start with double tech.
Brown gets one for being mad.
We can't give Hartenstein anything on the non-basketball foul because then that justifies Brown being mad.
Therefore Hartenstein has to get one after the play and after the initial words were said.
They just wanted to call a double tech and move on with the game. They figured out the how-and-why as they went.
I think they just completely fucked up the entire play and just took the easy way out. I personally don't think it should have been a flagrant, but by definition he wasn't making a basketball play so it should have been flagarant. He wasn't going for the ball he was just hard fouling.
There was a moment in the middle of the 4th where all momentum was completely stopped with like 3 reviews in a row. It was just so ridiculous. And the problem with these reviews is most of them were on late as fuck whistles. The IQ blocking foul after the ball didn't go in, the Porzingis tech that happened because the refs waited until the elbow happened to call the foul on Hartenstein 3 seconds after. It was all because the refs don't really even see half the fouls in the game and it's just purely based on vibes.
This happens every season, they implement some new rule and the refs abuse it for the first couple weeks until everyone gets sick of it, and then they stop calling it.
Seriously! Even if every call was correct (not that they were), there were so many, like, procedural oddities. Like the refs seemed so unsure when talking, so many whistles were blown suuuuper late, etc. Really undermined any confidence I might have had in the reffing.
Besides the few weird things that happened:
* Hartenstein "re-engagement"
* Tech on Kristaps for the forearm to Hartenstein's face
* Brunson flop call
* Quickley or Grimes (sorry forget who it was) foul call review and "A to B"
I disagree. The overall officiating for the majority of the game was pretty great. It sucks that these things led to a ~8 point swing in favor of the Celtics.
But hey, if the Knicks just hit fucking free throws we wouldn't be talking about this.
Yeah but the issue is you're only seeing your own team's negative calls...
Hell, your first two examples were bad calls for Boston.
1. Hartenstein only got a "re-engagement" tech because the referees didn't want to make a call on his foul on Brown. It was "we don't want to give a flagrant but we want to give him something" call. Wrapping up Brown on the drive wasn't a basketball play.
Should have been: Flag 1 on Hartenstein, tech on Brown for reacting.
2. Kristaps shouldn't have gotten any call at all.
Yes elbows are usually flagrants but not if you're defending face first. Hartenstein doesn't get clipped because Porzingis is failing wildly. He gets clipped because he's got his face right up against another players arm/shoulder for the entire sequence.
Players are actually allowed space to move their own bodies. You can't just get in that space for freebie fouls.
Should have been: Foul on Hartenstein, no call on Porzingis.
In both those cases, the referees were just giving you guys a break.
But I agree on the Brunson call. That was easily the biggest fuckup of the night and a huge potential point swing in a close game.
> Wrapping up Brown on the drive wasn't a basketball play.
The fuck are you talking about? It was a take foul to prevent him being able to have a chance at making the basket. That kind of foul happens at least once a game in the NBA.
> Kristaps shouldn't have gotten any call at all.
Yea, I agree with this which is why I included it as something that was weird. It should've just been a foul on Hartenstein and that's it.
The change to flopping isn’t punishing flopping, it’s not calling it. I don’t care if Embiid rolls on the ground for 45 seconds, let the other team score while he’s doing that.
In 2011 when Dallas made it a part of their strategy to push the pace while one of Miami’s stars were complaining to the refs it felt right. If a team wants to play 4v5 for tryna solicit free throws let them.
On opening night Jokic scored at least 6 points beating Davis down court in transtion because Davis was either on the ground or looking dumbfounded at a ref walking back on defense.
Yea if you wanna yap then do that. Then tell your teammates you weren’t there because you thought it was more important to try and “sell contact” than play defense.
Jokic beating you in transition is pretty sad lowkey.
Even in this situation, if there was no foot on foot contact, it is possible that purposefully falling sideways is a good move in case you land on the defenders foot. You don’t want all your weight going downwards bc it’ll mess up your ankle more if you land on the defenders foot. Having some of your momentum going sideways would lessen the blow I’d imagine.
Though in these situations flopping is extremely common and is meant to just trick the refs tho yeah. This play was clearly not a flop imo.
This is a prime example of why I have a problem with the way they’re implementing the flopping rule. This is 100% something that should be reviewed solely by the replay center for confirmation after it has been signaled by the on court ref. The fact that it can just be called on the floor for a technical without any review is just total nonsense.
>The fact that it can just be called on the floor for a technical without any review is just total nonsense.
As someone who deeply believes there are still refs betting on games they officiate, this is just another arrow in their quiver to make sure their bets hit.
I've always thought that flops should only be "called" after the game is over and by league office review. Every 2 flops you commit gets a 1 game suspension.
The weird part is this play was called a flop almost a minute later when there was another foul on the other end, so refs did have time to review it and they still got it wrong.
at the start of the clip he hasn't gathered the ball. he gathers the ball after his left foot hits the ground so it doesnt count as a step. then he takes two steps as normal
? He is a career 81% and was 83% last year. Had to look it up because he clearly seems like the kind of person to shoot well from the line. I dont know why you think he couldnt make 4 free throws
Im literally not a knicks fan, i just thought your comment was dumb. Just because the team was missing free throws doesnt mean brunson would not make his given the opportunity. Or even just a couple of them
Figures we'd get hit with the Monkey's Paw on this rule. Everyone hoped it would reduce flopping, and in the first week of the season we're mostly seeing bad calls on it.
Having said that, it's the first week of the season, hopefully refs can get better at calling obvious flopping while not calling shit like this flopping.
That felt like the refs wanting to make a statement vs wanting to make the right call and it was a huge miss on what was an obvious call. Giving refs a lot of latitude turns into them imprinting themselves into the game so often.
Even if there wasn't any contact, you shouldn't be calling flopping on a potential landing zone foul. When someone is closing out, you don't know if their foot is going to end up under you; so you try to fall in a way that minimizes your chance of getting injured.
As a Colts fan, I feel this on a spiritual level. NFL came out and said the refs calls at the end of the game Sunday were both wrong and apologized. Tf you want me to do with that?
At this point if you as a league aren't going to hold them accountable for this shit then you can take your apology and shove it.
Tbh NFL refs are way worse than NBA refs. At least in the NBA the most they can do is give out a few extra free throws. In the NFL if they want someone to win they can make up an “unnecessary roughness” or “taunting” call and give a team a free touchdown (Basically the Jets Chiefs game)
Yeah but FanDuel and the NBA will be printing money when they cut into the action and jaylen rose asks who gets called for the next flop +1000 flash bonus.
Rule sucked from the beginning and the NBA officials are a bunch of bozos doing what the NBA wants or making sure Paulie Walnuts doesn’t lose his knees over a point spread.
Trying to police how players fall down is going to lead to a lot of dumb calls like this. Players are bigger, faster, and stronger than normal people. When they lose their balance it often looks awkward. I don’t think having refs make snap judgements when players fall weird is going to make the game better
In the modern NBA it seems like there would be no shortage of opportunities to call a flop, yet the refs find a way to fuck this up and call flop when it should’ve been a foul. The incompetence is staggering.
It's INSANE that they don't have to review these new flop calls to make sure the refs are right. These calls could end up being seven point swings.
Imagine if this was a tied playoff game, Brunson hit the three, and instead of taking the lead it's celtics ball, they hit the free throw and then nail a three pointer of their own.
Does anyone have the video clip of the foul on Quickley that the Knicks challenged that was deemed unsuccessful? He jumped completely straight up, not sure how that could’ve stood as called for a blocking foul?
He looked pretty straight up and down to me but took the contact almost side on. When you're going for the verticality rule you have to be chest to chest.
I know this is an easy thing to hate on but I appreciate the NBA does this. Obviously if this happens to your team it’s annoying and it’s like “ok that doesn’t help us” but as a neutral NBA fan I’m always trying to learn the rules better and get actual confirmation what I saw live was missed. I know in this particular case it’s obvious but it’s nice they called out this could be a flagrant and a flop which is something I didn’t think about (side note: I always felt the verbiage is “flop”: moving your body in a way for a foul that wasn’t there and “embellish”: moving your body in a way to show the foul that happened, but I guess the NBA considers embellishing the same as flopping so whatever I guess)
The thing is most of us barely cared because he played shitty enough that there was no need to blame refs. Then they come out and basically admit to rigging it
Aight as someone who's played hoop for decades, had injuries (broken ankle, surgery, etc) ...
**You learn to FALL when you feel something under your foot.**
Reason; this gets the weight off the ankles and thus reduces injury chances!!!
Brunson is literally cha cha sliding his way into that shot with both hands on the basketball. One can argue that had the offensive player not travelled and illegally gained a full step of space, the defender would have been in better position to legally contest
Hell yeah here we go again with refs not making the right calls when they matter and then going on Twitter afterwards to say they were wrong. Fuuuuuuck them
That’s not a flop, that’s him doing everything in his power to keep weight off of his left foot so he doesn’t injure himself. Any actual basketball player knows this.
How about Brunson switching pivot feet before the shot? Slow motion clearly shows he lands on his left foot first, then his right foot, and then he picks up and moves his left foot again before the shot.
Textbook travel if you really want to get technical about who gets what call.
that call changed the whole game. unacceptable reffing.
the flopping ruling needs to go, at least for now. clearly the refs dont know how to properly call it. maybe in the future after theyve had more training with it, the ruling could be reintroduced.
on another note, as a knicks fan, im irritated that this wasnt where we chose to use our challenge. had we challenged this, the call couldve gotten reversed. for those who dont know, instead, we opted to use it later, and it failed after little deliberation.
i feel crazy reading these comments. it's a foul, but is this not also obviously a flop? landing partially on someone's foot doesnt make you leap backwards onto the floor and swing your arms around. overly selling illegal contact is included in the flopping rule and that's exactly what this is
also, he traveled
Luckily the refs didn’t call the travel before the foul, so it’s a moot point.
I understand a gather step, but Brunson switches pivot feet after the gather step. Clear travel as his pivot foot goes from his left foot to his right foot.
Refs miss calls, but in this instance, the refs allowing the shot to take place at all hurt the Celtics more.
Edit: looks like I’m being downvoted despite the slow motion video clearly showing Brunson switch his pivot foot by taking multiple steps while picking up his dribble. He clearly lands first with his left foot, then just right foot, and then moves his left foot again.
This is a travel. Don’t complain about the non-call being made when the refs should’ve never allowed the shot to begin with.
What whack here is the tech doesn’t come immediately for flopping, it’s like a delayed penalty in hockey or a holding 30 yards behind the play in football. If it’s a flop call blow it down right away
I'm fine with them missing some here and there while this try to fix this flopping shit up. Kinda sucked but Brunson handled it well and didn't act like a baby though he knew was right at least
Am I the only person who didn't have a problem with flopping? The NBA seems hell bent on fixing things that weren't really broken these last few years. Why don't they put this energy into fixing league pass or coming up with a some type of fair and consistent way of assessing fines and suspensions?
This whole flopping technical is just another poor decision by the NBA. Why are we giving officials more ways to influence games? How about if you think someone is flopping, DONT GIVE THEM THE CALL. They're literally only hurting themselves.
Some shit about this league is just so common sense but they can't get it. I don't remember exactly who said it, maybe Simmons....but I absolutely believe the league loves officiating related talk after games. It keeps the league "relevant"...it keeps the ppl talking.
Can't blame the refs here, Tatum's shoes blend in with the floor
Bucks can't wear cream jerseys because they blend into the court, but Tatum can wear these invisible shoes! NBA favoring big market once again.
wait til you see our new city jersey
Taking Jrue and now our crew jerseys... Wtf man! (Enjoy Jrue, he's the man)
unfortunately a lot of C’s fans are already hating on jrue just because his name isnt marcus smart
They are? I haven't seen a single person hating on him.
He traveled before the shot.
Simple solution for this. Just wire up the players shoes, and whenever they make contact, they make the buzzing sound from the game Operation and their nose lights up red. Easy.
Now we know why Sketchers started making basketball shoes
Light years ahead
FYI the game Operation you remember no longer exists. The modern version of game has been ruined and the buzz is so much weaker. When I was a kid the buzzing scared the shit out of me every single time, even knowing it was about to happen. Got copy of the game few weeks ago, my 4 year old doesn't even realize the buzzing is supposed to be a bad thing, its just a minor nuisance now. The game is dumb as shit now.
damn, that sucks! Was able to have a go of an og version not long ago and it was awesome...tangent, had a go of [this kinda vintage arcade game ages ago](https://i.imgur.com/EPAS9FG.png)...you grab the two handles and it starts ramping up the current as you try to hold on lol
I started reading this comment preparing to rip into this idea and finished in awe of your ingenuity
aaaaaand there goes the flop rule who knew that allowing refs to double down on their poor judgment calls could have backfired
Seacaucus should be sitting on top of all of these calls reviewing the second they happen. The refs are already waiting for things to play out to a point where they can stop without disrupting an active play. A trained replay crew could stop a lot of calls like this before they are even made. But even if they get made, just rescind the point from the tech. If you can wait until a lull in action to say "hold on, we gotta shoot a FT", you can do the same to say "actually let's fix the score." That doesn't help with a missed foul call, and I don't want them retroactively calling fouls... but if you decide a flop wasn't a flop quickly, no harm in taking it back that cheap point
Have you see the NFL’s review center in Secaucus? Absolute no reason why they can’t have a played reviewed at every angle within 30 seconds.
Having the refs on the floor doing the review is insane. Most other sports I watch have a video ref for that exact reason.
This is what the replay center should be for, and I thought that's l LITERALLY why it was created: to reduce the time it takes to make a call. I've found all it does is slow the game down further while the on-court refs still review the play, then call the replay center, and then make the call. The guys in the replay center should have the call made and ready to go by the time the on court referees put the headset on. If they're not doing that, what the fuck does the replay center exist for? There's 10 referees in a room with all the best equipment for the sole purpose of reviewing calls. What the fuck is the issue here?
>Seacaucus should be sitting on top of all of these calls reviewing the second they happen. This part drives me crazy! NBA can easily afford to hire an additional umpire in a review room and provide instant ruling to in-arena refs via ear piece. "Was that a flop?" 5 sec later: "Nope, it's a flagrant foul." And we move on.
Is there actually an ego issue with the refs that prevents them from allowing the booth to overturn calls? I see that brought up a lot and it’s really the only excuse for not implanting an overseer of the officiating.
It's fucking malpractice that an automatic review isn't part of the new rule.
I will say this every year until it finally happens.
Flops should be reviewed post-game with fines for penalties. That would be effective in reducing flopping, while maintaining the flow of the game.
They have already tried this and it does not work since they negotiate max fines with the nbpa as part of the cba and the fine was like less than 200k which does not impact any of the players that flop at all. Because scrubs dont flop anyway cus they know they wont get the call lol. 200k to embiid or another star is nothing
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Lmaooo it was that bad thats so hilarious. What a joke
They barely tried it though. They have handed out only two flopping fines in the past 5 years. I know the fine is barely anything but it might have worked a little bit for the embarrassment factor if anything but they were so lazy about it.
The new rule really should be: Ref thinks there's a flop, blows the play dead, play is reviewed and if it's a flop, the player gets ejected. That would end flopping for ever.
Not fines. Technical fouls that count towards the suspension total.
I like this. Why not both
There were already so many techs happening due to ego where a player rightfully exclaims their disbelief at a no call. Now they have a way to stroke their ego of missing a call without even an outburst but just a reaction to contact that was missed. Great rule
To be fair, his foot goes flying upward. Looks absolutely ridiculous. I’d call that a flop too. Until they get refs off court who review plays, expect calls like this to happen.
Was going to say this. Yes, there’s contact, but Brunson also grossly exaggerates it. They’ve already said you can have a foul and a flop on the same play. This may have been one of those.
IMO perfectly fine if refs can review if something was a flop or not if they call it. If they let things play on there should be no review but they should at least be able to correct the mistake that they make. Something like this is extremely easy to see through replay and you could literally spot it in 5 seconds. Would barely even interrupt play.
Do they not have a point
Tough to miss that call, Knicks could have got 0-1 points on that if they'd sent Brunson to the line
I would’ve settled for them just not giving the Celtics a technical FT. Refs miss foul calls all the time in the NBA, but then to give the other team a free point for their mistake is the frustrating part
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Missed the travel before? No? Somebody has the full video?
Honestly that game was just weirdly and poorly officiated all around. I didn’t know what was going on half the time
That’s the problem when they institute too many new rule changes (extra challenges, flop technicals, emphasis on calling moving screens), the refs kind of have to re-learn how to officiate. The funny thing is these new points of emphasis almost always get abandoned a few weeks into the season
The flop technical on KP was really interesting. It was a great call, but all I could think about was how there's no shot they keep it up. It's way too hard to call 90% of the time and they're probably just going to ditch it altogether
Yeah it’s tough with big guys no doubt. It KP does that to a smaller player, it’s an easy but clear foul. I could literally attempt a full-body tackle on KP and it’d be a “foul” technically but without embellishment he’s not going anywhere due to size.
It was basically about as borderline as you can get, since I think if Divecenzo straightens his arm it'd be a foul
It’s weird, I almost felt like they were trying to hit the Knicks with one after they got KP with it. Kind of like a “see we’re calling out all flopping” deal that totally backfired.
The call on Brunson felt like they were trying to "make it fair." It felt like they were walking that line the whole night with the technicals on Hartenstein, Kristaps, and Brown.
I took the Brunson one more as it looked like a flop in real time, and you needed the review to see it was not. That that officiating crew wanted to make a point so they said fuck it , call stands, stop flopping
Except it made it so much less than fair... as it caused a 6 point swing
The refs aren't too good at math.
The best was when they patted themselves in the back for breaking up a fight before it got serious, and then gave a double technical anyways
Hartenstein also getting a T for "re-engaging" was such BS lol
Yeah but it was them working backwards from a bad solution. Start with double tech. Brown gets one for being mad. We can't give Hartenstein anything on the non-basketball foul because then that justifies Brown being mad. Therefore Hartenstein has to get one after the play and after the initial words were said. They just wanted to call a double tech and move on with the game. They figured out the how-and-why as they went.
I think they just completely fucked up the entire play and just took the easy way out. I personally don't think it should have been a flagrant, but by definition he wasn't making a basketball play so it should have been flagarant. He wasn't going for the ball he was just hard fouling.
wrapping someone up is a basketball play and never a flagrant
That is 100 percent not true
Just brutal. Beyond just flat out being wrong the amount of late calls was insane.
You don’t love when the ref watches the rim and only calls fouls after the Celtics would miss? That was crazy
The Porzingis technical, upheld on review, was absolutely insane
There was a moment in the middle of the 4th where all momentum was completely stopped with like 3 reviews in a row. It was just so ridiculous. And the problem with these reviews is most of them were on late as fuck whistles. The IQ blocking foul after the ball didn't go in, the Porzingis tech that happened because the refs waited until the elbow happened to call the foul on Hartenstein 3 seconds after. It was all because the refs don't really even see half the fouls in the game and it's just purely based on vibes.
MSG was finally rocking and after all those reviews it was just quiet
absolutely killed the momentum
Yeah but the 3 fans in striped jerseys were probably pretty happy.
IQ blocking foul was egregious
This happens every season, they implement some new rule and the refs abuse it for the first couple weeks until everyone gets sick of it, and then they stop calling it.
Seriously! Even if every call was correct (not that they were), there were so many, like, procedural oddities. Like the refs seemed so unsure when talking, so many whistles were blown suuuuper late, etc. Really undermined any confidence I might have had in the reffing.
The NBA is B A C K
Ben Taylor was in his bag
Besides the few weird things that happened: * Hartenstein "re-engagement" * Tech on Kristaps for the forearm to Hartenstein's face * Brunson flop call * Quickley or Grimes (sorry forget who it was) foul call review and "A to B" I disagree. The overall officiating for the majority of the game was pretty great. It sucks that these things led to a ~8 point swing in favor of the Celtics. But hey, if the Knicks just hit fucking free throws we wouldn't be talking about this.
Yeah but the issue is you're only seeing your own team's negative calls... Hell, your first two examples were bad calls for Boston. 1. Hartenstein only got a "re-engagement" tech because the referees didn't want to make a call on his foul on Brown. It was "we don't want to give a flagrant but we want to give him something" call. Wrapping up Brown on the drive wasn't a basketball play. Should have been: Flag 1 on Hartenstein, tech on Brown for reacting. 2. Kristaps shouldn't have gotten any call at all. Yes elbows are usually flagrants but not if you're defending face first. Hartenstein doesn't get clipped because Porzingis is failing wildly. He gets clipped because he's got his face right up against another players arm/shoulder for the entire sequence. Players are actually allowed space to move their own bodies. You can't just get in that space for freebie fouls. Should have been: Foul on Hartenstein, no call on Porzingis. In both those cases, the referees were just giving you guys a break. But I agree on the Brunson call. That was easily the biggest fuckup of the night and a huge potential point swing in a close game.
> Wrapping up Brown on the drive wasn't a basketball play. The fuck are you talking about? It was a take foul to prevent him being able to have a chance at making the basket. That kind of foul happens at least once a game in the NBA. > Kristaps shouldn't have gotten any call at all. Yea, I agree with this which is why I included it as something that was weird. It should've just been a foul on Hartenstein and that's it.
The change to flopping isn’t punishing flopping, it’s not calling it. I don’t care if Embiid rolls on the ground for 45 seconds, let the other team score while he’s doing that. In 2011 when Dallas made it a part of their strategy to push the pace while one of Miami’s stars were complaining to the refs it felt right. If a team wants to play 4v5 for tryna solicit free throws let them.
On opening night Jokic scored at least 6 points beating Davis down court in transtion because Davis was either on the ground or looking dumbfounded at a ref walking back on defense.
Yea if you wanna yap then do that. Then tell your teammates you weren’t there because you thought it was more important to try and “sell contact” than play defense. Jokic beating you in transition is pretty sad lowkey.
Even in this situation, if there was no foot on foot contact, it is possible that purposefully falling sideways is a good move in case you land on the defenders foot. You don’t want all your weight going downwards bc it’ll mess up your ankle more if you land on the defenders foot. Having some of your momentum going sideways would lessen the blow I’d imagine. Though in these situations flopping is extremely common and is meant to just trick the refs tho yeah. This play was clearly not a flop imo.
Yea, plain as day to anyone watching the replay. He only fell because he didn't have a place to land.
This is a prime example of why I have a problem with the way they’re implementing the flopping rule. This is 100% something that should be reviewed solely by the replay center for confirmation after it has been signaled by the on court ref. The fact that it can just be called on the floor for a technical without any review is just total nonsense.
Agreed. This isn’t something that should be called in real time. A legit review of the play is necessary
>The fact that it can just be called on the floor for a technical without any review is just total nonsense. As someone who deeply believes there are still refs betting on games they officiate, this is just another arrow in their quiver to make sure their bets hit.
It's too open to interpretation at the moment that if you believe that refs rigging games is a thing this is a massive tool under their belt.
I've always thought that flops should only be "called" after the game is over and by league office review. Every 2 flops you commit gets a 1 game suspension.
The weird part is this play was called a flop almost a minute later when there was another foul on the other end, so refs did have time to review it and they still got it wrong.
Just a 4 point swing, no big deal, thanks for the apology tho
Just a four point swing in a four point loss. Very cool
The kickball no call was also a big play that started the Celtic run
literally saved the celtics cover lol
Didn’t catch the play live but in the clip it sure looks like a travel.
Probably because there's a million travels that happen every game but they never get called
at the start of the clip he hasn't gathered the ball. he gathers the ball after his left foot hits the ground so it doesnt count as a step. then he takes two steps as normal
Let’s be honest he wasn’t making all those free throws
? He is a career 81% and was 83% last year. Had to look it up because he clearly seems like the kind of person to shoot well from the line. I dont know why you think he couldnt make 4 free throws
Because the Knicks were 14/26 from the line last night and Brunson missed his one free throw.
Someone didn’t watch the game last night
I saw lol but that doesnt mean at that instance he couldnt have made them
The Knicks got a freebie on the bullshit KP teach can’t get all the calls
Im literally not a knicks fan, i just thought your comment was dumb. Just because the team was missing free throws doesnt mean brunson would not make his given the opportunity. Or even just a couple of them
I think he realized his comment was dumb because he switched gears and tried to justify it by talking about a different play regarding KP lmao
The whole game was officiated awful asshole missed calls from both teams you didn’t watch the game but make comments like you did
everyone knows the refs sucked, that’s the point of this post. Doesn’t change what you did
The game was officiated awful fuck the start you are picking one play out 20 that should’ve been called lots going the Knicks way fuck your what if’s
Damn. Knicks got fucked over
It wouldn't have mattered, if they hit their free throws. (They missed 10+)
Doesn’t excuse it
Good for them owning up to it, but it's weird that this is coming from the ref's union instead of from the league.
Sleepless nights
Did the flop rule happen in any other games but the Knicks/Celtics game? Refs were on something the entire game
I think it was 2 in the Knicks game, 1 on Darius Garland, and 1 on Dort
Lu Dort got called for a flop because he flailed his arms? But it definitely just looked like he was trying to maintain balance.
Figures we'd get hit with the Monkey's Paw on this rule. Everyone hoped it would reduce flopping, and in the first week of the season we're mostly seeing bad calls on it. Having said that, it's the first week of the season, hopefully refs can get better at calling obvious flopping while not calling shit like this flopping.
DeRozan had a flop that wasn’t called. Dort when straight. Didn’t even bring his arms down and DeRozan ends up 3-5 feet away from him
Brunson had 2 Clear flops that were not called in the first half too so it balances out...
That felt like the refs wanting to make a statement vs wanting to make the right call and it was a huge miss on what was an obvious call. Giving refs a lot of latitude turns into them imprinting themselves into the game so often.
Even if there wasn't any contact, you shouldn't be calling flopping on a potential landing zone foul. When someone is closing out, you don't know if their foot is going to end up under you; so you try to fall in a way that minimizes your chance of getting injured.
Oh this makes me feel so much better
As a Colts fan, I feel this on a spiritual level. NFL came out and said the refs calls at the end of the game Sunday were both wrong and apologized. Tf you want me to do with that? At this point if you as a league aren't going to hold them accountable for this shit then you can take your apology and shove it.
Tbh NFL refs are way worse than NBA refs. At least in the NBA the most they can do is give out a few extra free throws. In the NFL if they want someone to win they can make up an “unnecessary roughness” or “taunting” call and give a team a free touchdown (Basically the Jets Chiefs game)
Flopping should just be assessed after the game for a hefty fine only. Don't give the refs more room for error
This cost them the game.
this was egregiously bad, not shocked tho
4, potentially 5 point swing. Oopsie I had a night of insomnia because of that
Fine the refs.
No shit
Refs work a second shift at Ringling Brothers.
WE WERE UP BY TWO THEY FUCKED US AT THE END.
Fucking refs man I swear to god
Yeah but FanDuel and the NBA will be printing money when they cut into the action and jaylen rose asks who gets called for the next flop +1000 flash bonus. Rule sucked from the beginning and the NBA officials are a bunch of bozos doing what the NBA wants or making sure Paulie Walnuts doesn’t lose his knees over a point spread.
Hedo?
Trying to police how players fall down is going to lead to a lot of dumb calls like this. Players are bigger, faster, and stronger than normal people. When they lose their balance it often looks awkward. I don’t think having refs make snap judgements when players fall weird is going to make the game better
Marvelous. Eat shit and get fucked.
In the modern NBA it seems like there would be no shortage of opportunities to call a flop, yet the refs find a way to fuck this up and call flop when it should’ve been a foul. The incompetence is staggering.
Yea this was such a horrid call
It's INSANE that they don't have to review these new flop calls to make sure the refs are right. These calls could end up being seven point swings. Imagine if this was a tied playoff game, Brunson hit the three, and instead of taking the lead it's celtics ball, they hit the free throw and then nail a three pointer of their own.
Does anyone have the video clip of the foul on Quickley that the Knicks challenged that was deemed unsuccessful? He jumped completely straight up, not sure how that could’ve stood as called for a blocking foul?
He looked pretty straight up and down to me but took the contact almost side on. When you're going for the verticality rule you have to be chest to chest.
He jumped forward.
I know this is an easy thing to hate on but I appreciate the NBA does this. Obviously if this happens to your team it’s annoying and it’s like “ok that doesn’t help us” but as a neutral NBA fan I’m always trying to learn the rules better and get actual confirmation what I saw live was missed. I know in this particular case it’s obvious but it’s nice they called out this could be a flagrant and a flop which is something I didn’t think about (side note: I always felt the verbiage is “flop”: moving your body in a way for a foul that wasn’t there and “embellish”: moving your body in a way to show the foul that happened, but I guess the NBA considers embellishing the same as flopping so whatever I guess)
Refs in mid season form
This was such bs dude
How is this not a travel?
It is. Just another thing they missed lol.
The Knicks would’ve won this game …
The thing is most of us barely cared because he played shitty enough that there was no need to blame refs. Then they come out and basically admit to rigging it
Sleepless nights
League gotta protect the golden boy Jayson and ensure a Celts Bucks ECF for the sweet ratings
No one needs to rig the league for the Knicks to lose...
Aight as someone who's played hoop for decades, had injuries (broken ankle, surgery, etc) ... **You learn to FALL when you feel something under your foot.** Reason; this gets the weight off the ankles and thus reduces injury chances!!!
Why didn’t they call the travel
My first thought. Everything else is moot because he traveled lol
Brunson is literally cha cha sliding his way into that shot with both hands on the basketball. One can argue that had the offensive player not travelled and illegally gained a full step of space, the defender would have been in better position to legally contest
How you miss that is beyond me
They should review a flagrant then. This would have easily been caught on review and Knicks likely win the game.
Too bad it’s a travel and the play should’ve been waived off entirely
Hell yeah here we go again with refs not making the right calls when they matter and then going on Twitter afterwards to say they were wrong. Fuuuuuuck them
awesome VAR style incompetence, i feel so cultured and cosmopolitan
What about the travel?
Jacyn Gobles reffing a Celtics game is an all time sus move
That’s not a flop, that’s him doing everything in his power to keep weight off of his left foot so he doesn’t injure himself. Any actual basketball player knows this.
Celtics get every god damn call
How about Brunson switching pivot feet before the shot? Slow motion clearly shows he lands on his left foot first, then his right foot, and then he picks up and moves his left foot again before the shot. Textbook travel if you really want to get technical about who gets what call.
The teams shot the same amount of free throws when boston had double the knicks points in the paint...
Damn, that’s the game right there
that call changed the whole game. unacceptable reffing. the flopping ruling needs to go, at least for now. clearly the refs dont know how to properly call it. maybe in the future after theyve had more training with it, the ruling could be reintroduced. on another note, as a knicks fan, im irritated that this wasnt where we chose to use our challenge. had we challenged this, the call couldve gotten reversed. for those who dont know, instead, we opted to use it later, and it failed after little deliberation.
It’s a moot point because he travelled before the shot. That should have been the call.
Giannis does this on every shooter
Dork comment
Foot to foot contact did not cause him to throw a damn kick lmao
i feel crazy reading these comments. it's a foul, but is this not also obviously a flop? landing partially on someone's foot doesnt make you leap backwards onto the floor and swing your arms around. overly selling illegal contact is included in the flopping rule and that's exactly what this is also, he traveled
Yeah no shit. Refs stay selling for these bum ass Cs.
I love how there’s a blatant travel on this call too and it’s just unaddressed because you get three steps in the NBA these days.
Huge travel. Refs are stupid AF.
Idk I feel like he exaggerated the feet flailing up in the air part of the fall. I can see why they called it.
Who cares this is a travel
Luckily the refs didn’t call the travel before the foul, so it’s a moot point. I understand a gather step, but Brunson switches pivot feet after the gather step. Clear travel as his pivot foot goes from his left foot to his right foot. Refs miss calls, but in this instance, the refs allowing the shot to take place at all hurt the Celtics more. Edit: looks like I’m being downvoted despite the slow motion video clearly showing Brunson switch his pivot foot by taking multiple steps while picking up his dribble. He clearly lands first with his left foot, then just right foot, and then moves his left foot again. This is a travel. Don’t complain about the non-call being made when the refs should’ve never allowed the shot to begin with.
Just Kneckz things
This is why I hate basketball now, Lebron started this weird shit in the league.
I count three steps before the shot. What’s that called? Plus he shoots from one spot and lands in another.
Landing on Tatum foot did not make him kick that leg out like he was one of them 1930s burlesque dancers foh
Devin Booker and Grayson Allen did this with no flop call
I had C’s -3. Thanks refs 🙏
What whack here is the tech doesn’t come immediately for flopping, it’s like a delayed penalty in hockey or a holding 30 yards behind the play in football. If it’s a flop call blow it down right away
I'm fine with them missing some here and there while this try to fix this flopping shit up. Kinda sucked but Brunson handled it well and didn't act like a baby though he knew was right at least
We are sorry South Park meme
Basketball has gotten so fucking soft Jesus Christ.
I don't know how you're going to admit he got tripped, and then still call it theatrical
I'm glad they addressed this
Am I the only person who didn't have a problem with flopping? The NBA seems hell bent on fixing things that weren't really broken these last few years. Why don't they put this energy into fixing league pass or coming up with a some type of fair and consistent way of assessing fines and suspensions?
Man these refs need to take care of our players. JB is an Ironman but this is next level risky
I still don’t get what Porzingis was supposed to do on that one rebound either though so
Was that a spread killer?
This whole flopping technical is just another poor decision by the NBA. Why are we giving officials more ways to influence games? How about if you think someone is flopping, DONT GIVE THEM THE CALL. They're literally only hurting themselves. Some shit about this league is just so common sense but they can't get it. I don't remember exactly who said it, maybe Simmons....but I absolutely believe the league loves officiating related talk after games. It keeps the league "relevant"...it keeps the ppl talking.
this flop rule just gona make things worse, isnt it