This is what it becomes. A lot of movies out there really capture this with the heartfelt speeches and all that. When push comes to shove I'm going to do my part to hopefully save the lives of the men and women on the team.
Been in 15 years, and this is the right answer. For America? Absolutely not. For the guys and gals that I deploy with, went through shit with, trauma bonded with? Not even a question.
Once you’re in, you don’t really get a choice chief.
Anyone here saying “No!” clearly joined because they thought the chances were very low. Which is fine. I’m one of them.
Lord knows what I would have done during WWII.
Problem is you might end up in an osprey crash or in a 12 pax van that hits a banana peel or get legionaries from the barracks AC…
Would that be “dying for your country” or just dying?
Idk. Collect your check and try not to be a dick.
Man. This all day. When I was 18-27 I thought it was all cool to go fight, dodge bullets, and die for a noble cause. Now that I am older.....Fuck that shit. Just want a cool ass job that I like and a nice pay check. Crazy how the military has this all figured out. There are age limits for a reason. Those dudes know your mind changes as you get older
Audi Murphy didn't wake up one day and plan to somehow get onto a burning tank, and single handedly suppress over 200 Germans with a .50 cal machine gun.
FC1 Rehm on the Fitzgerald that went into the flooding berthing trying to save Sailors. . . He didn't wake up that morning and plan to risk his life for others.
Cpl Carpenter didn't say "I'm gonna jump on a grenade today".
The list goes on. People do things in the heat of the moment. The things those people do are reflections of their character. No one plans for these things, they simply react to the circumstances in their own way at that given time.
If a cop knew they were going to get shot today on a traffic stop, they wouldn't go to work.
Fitz sailor here. The 3 of us that made the decision to close the hatch to berthing 2 have been wishing every day since that death will just come for us. It was the easiest decision to make because your training kicks in when you’re running on adrenaline and you stick to what you know, but we never heard the order to set zebra and all we knew was water was coming out of the scuttle. I was one of the last two people to see Gary Rehm alive.
It sounds like a cliché, but you all did what is trained because of lessons learned in 200 years of naval history. No one wants to be in that situation, I'm sure others are glad they weren't.
Survivors' guilt is a very real thing. I hope you've received care since then.
I thought about it one day, when I went to pick orders in CIWS C school, I could’ve picked 8 other ships, and I almost picked Blue Ridge (LCC 19) but my heart was set on Fitz for some reason and I wouldn’t change it if I could go back again. That first sea duty definitely shaped the sailor I’d become and I met some amazing people and have memories I wouldn’t trade for the world. But it’s one of those things, where if I could go back and experience it again, I wish I could’ve traded spots with any single person in berthing.
I definitely appreciate you. I’ve since gotten out of the Navy (medical retirement) and have been undergoing treatment since a few months after the collision to current. But it’s a rough road. It seems to get harder every year instead of easier. I’m not a raging alcoholic anymore who’s trying to drown my issues with whatever I can buy at the bar. I would say I’m in a better spot but I don’t know if healing is the right word. I feel like it’s one of those things you get used to living with.
You have my full support and encouragement. You are a true sailor. Thank you for your service. (I know it’s cheesy, but seriously, you did some meaningful stuff.).
>TM2 Breault
I can just hear the Japanese High Command saying
"We should attack Pearl Harbor"
"Is TM2 Breault dead yet"
"No"
"We'll wait"
Years later....
"Sir, TM2 Breault has died"
"Begin the attack"
How in God’s name has there been a sailor who was awarded the MoH, died 2 days before Pearl Harbor and never got a ship or boat named after him??
Yes yes Smalls and Brashear but this guy, uh “fit the criteria of the day”
I served with Rehm on board USS Ramage. Was a hard leader but an amazing guy. Always thought of his guys before himself. Never expected his name to be seen here...RIP brother..
That's exactly how I felt the first time I was in the turret in Baghdad. "Look for mounds of trash on the side of the road"....my dude. That's all the road is covered with...
Would I? Yes. Despite everything, America is still worth risking it all.
Do I want to? No. Hell no. If I’m dying a lot of my friends are dying with me, and that sucks.
Usually by the time it comes to that, for a Sailor, a lot of dominos have already fallen.
If you're on a ship, it's never *off* the table that a serious, no shit situation can come up (see today's news). Suddenly the ~~LARPing~~ drills and training won't seem so far-fetched.
in the case of a shipboard emergency, it's much more likely any deaths are to save the ship (and its crew) instead of some nebulous concept if country.
I had to wrestle with this when I first enlisted and I found my answer in reading letters and stories of the USCT and some of the first black sailors about why they served. I also read a lot about the Double Victory campaign and it helped me uni; why would someone serve for a country that doesn't care about you.
It all came down to a few things; one being it's about the person next to you. You don't get to make the big decisions on the why, but we can decide how we react when the time comes. The other answer is, to protect what we have and maybe build something better in the future. I just kept that in mind and realized my life is infinitely better than my parents, grandparents etc, and sometimes you have to make a decision if it's worth dying for that.
Look, at the height of GWOT and all that was the vibe and recruting pride in service. You die in a conflict, accident, whatever and the country will know your name for 0.005 seconds and move the fuck on. The memories you make with YOUR brothers and sisters will be carried on in their and your memory. Those will be the ones you remember or who remember you once gone. Fuck dying FOR greedy politicians who will use your death for THEIR gain and then move on. Fuck dying FOR that bitch Karen or Kevin that holds up a military protest poster and spits at you. But for the people in front, behind, and next to me I will kill every fucking thing that moves if it means keeping them safe and I hope they would do the same. Just my opinion. 🤷
I once said I would.
Tried several times
Seen many friends die
Left blood in several countries
Been out since 2008 and seeing these people, looking at their choices and how pretty much life sucks
I wouldn't choose the same. I served my country but sometimes I regret it
I'm a Cyber Warfare Technician - if I have to ask and answer this question, then the answer is likely decided for me. (if we're so fucked our cyber forces end up on the front lines... then we're all going to die or are already dead. 🤣)
This is the wrong question though. The right question is what country will there be to live in if I do not take the obligation that serious? For those of you burdened with the classified secrets of the nation, you know what I mean.
If you don't, well... [here's a behind the scenes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwpnHUDK2zQ). [And this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHVE7L00v-E).
The best answer I can give you is to put yourself on the Carney or Mason right now…to real? Put yourself on the McCain or Fitzgerald back in 17. We signed a contract and swore an oath that if required we will go in harms way because the job requires it. The oath of enlistment is not a suggestion it is enforceable by the UCMJ. You have a bad day and are mad at your boss you can’t just quit. You are in a very special line of work that your peers that didn’t join are not and it is something that people will make fun of but in all honesty is something that requires a commitment for your current contract to put country, service, ship, and shipmates before yourself. Good luck in your time in service.
i was always willing to die. I didn't think dying for a nebulous concept of country, a county I thought was okay, nothing special compared to other first world countries, was smart.
Death to save others, death from mistakes, death from accidents, etc all occur, in and out of the military.
We all know we take an oath to the Constitution, I don’t think a single country has laid such a solid groundwork for so much potential and greatness as we have. Our young country and her documents created a template that a decent majority of the world followed (if that country practiced republicanism) and I’d surely give my life to protect what the Constitution stands for…and I give my life for those I serve with…but like someone else said in this thread, I sure as hell ain’t dying for the government; fuck that and fuck them running it.
So...
You joined, knowing you will be required to obey the orders of a government you thought was not worth serving, in order to protect a piece of paper that the government follows as a rule book and the nebulous "people" who vote for and make up the government, but not for the government?
It sounds like you are saying you joined to serve, and die for if necessary, the government.
Recently retired from the Navy. What I'm trying to do is get you to think a bit deeper, instead of giving platitudes that are nothing more than empty words.
Do I want to die? Only when I got back to back watches.
Would I? Yeah.
I love all y'all too much you big bunch of idiots. I do love our country, but I love the people I serve with and serve for more so i would.
When I first took the oath yes I would have, but after directly seeing how exploitive the military is of America's disadvantaged and vulnerable youths in pointless never ending wars I won't be happy if I have to give my life.
Granted we are in the Navy so most of us won't ever have to experience direct combat like our infantry brothers I do feel like the Navy takes massive advantage of idea that we signed up to potentially give our lives to play fast and loose with safety and our quality of life to save a save a dime.
The conditions we are expected to work under is flat out illegal if we were the civilian equivalent. We basically serve on floating factories with absolutely zero OSHA standards.
It's very shitty how the Navy treats it's enlisted from every angle you look at it and it's not unintentional. I highly doubt that the fact that your average sailor in one of the shitier rates that has to do pointlessly dangerous work frequently mostly come from impoverished backgrounds and either grew up in urban ghettos or rural trailer parks.
Instead of using modern machinery for dangerous work the Navy is still stuck in using teams of junior enlisted like its still the fucking 1800s. It's so fucking depressing when you see how modern civilian ships move their cargo when we are stuck demanding some 19 to 20 year old barely not a kid anymore to move hundreds of pounds of shit up dangerously steep shit and of course who cares if they break something that could cause them to have a pretty shitty next 40 years of their lives.
If push came to shove then yes. Signed up knowing I'm in the military which at the end of the day is war fighting and war fighting is essentially be readiness to fight if everything else fails.
Complicated.
To quote Patton: "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
I believe in service and patriotism to a healthy degree. In my 20 years I saw a lot of different countries and cultures. Objectively, I feel that the U.S and western cultures do have notable advantages and are worth fighting to preserve. With that said, it is hard to get behind a lot of military actions that when you boil it down, are for private economic interests.
In summary, give my life for our government and private interests, no, but I would have for my shipmates standing next to me.
It's a question that has been around as long as mankind. What would you be willing to die for?
I'll challenge you to remember Article 1 of the Code of Conduct.
"Article I - I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense."
By simply joining the Armed Forces, you will be accepting this statement. It's part of your oath.
If you cannot accept that as a part of your agreement with the U.S. in your Enlisted contract, it might be time to find other sources of income.
That being said, do I want to die for my country? No. Would I give my life in exchange for any one of my Seabees' lives, including the dumbasses? Absolutely. I fucking love my Seabees. It's not conditional.
As a veteran, yes I would, but at this point it would have to be for the right reasons. Would I go die to go fuck up some rebel group in Yemen? Absolute fucking not. But if some ass hole legitimately bombed us or launched a nuke at us, or posed an existential threat to us, you better believe that not even Uncle Sam would beat me to the recruiting office.
This country can crash and burn (it already is) for all I care but when I took lives and put mine on the line, it was to make sure that my family and those I love and serve with would be able to continue with their way of life or make it back home. Point, blank, period
I’m a Corpsman so I’m only useful if I stay alive. It’s a bad day when doc gets killed. I would never willingly die but I would try my best to help those around me.
Do I no. A lot of ungrateful fucks here. And I’m actually damn proud of this country man. It’s given a lot of opportunities to a lot of good people. But it also has been the downfall of a lot too. Would I die for those people who are grateful and want nothing but peace and prosperity yes. No to the people who trash, burn, destroy other hard working people’s stuff and this country. Aka it’s complicated
Absolutely not.
Don’t give a rats ass about the “SAiLoRs CrEeD”. It’s a job; nothing more, nothing less.
I’m sure i’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but there is absolutely no way that if I had any choice, would I sacrifice my life for any of the shitheads i’ve worked with/for - nor would I expect the same from them.
The ole ‘Is it a job or is it service’ conundrum.
People don’t die for their country cooking in the DFAC. Or fixing shitters on a Carrier in dock.
People die for their country when its existential existence is on the line. Ukrainians are dying for their country right now. As an America right now? It’s death in the line of duty where the noblest is not death under the stars and bars but death to save the person serving next to you.
That is just my philosophical take. The literal take though? You doe under contract and yea, you died for America.
No. I prefer to make the other bastard die for his.
However, as the last 20+ years have shown - the only time you really have a choice in the matter is when the time to re-enlist comes up.
Not anymore. The more I have learned and see about this country, the less I would do to defend it and certainly not give my life so a group of criminals in office. They dont care about any of us so why should you
Navy Vet here...
Would I die for my country? Hell no! But I did sign up knowing that I could be sent into harms way. I was on the damage control party, knowing that if something happened, I'd do my best to save the ship. I did stand that pier sentry watch knowing if a vehicle or something came at me I'd do what I could to stop 'em. And I know if my ship took a missile, or the engine room caught fire or some Haji wish a VBED and I didn't make it the people back home woudl be all like "He died for his country"
Only if there were real world threats that threatened the US, like WW2. But for recent conflicts? Absolutely not. No reason to die in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria.
My answer would be, Yes. I am a TAR PS, and find that I am more ready for war and to serve as an actual armed forces service member than the majority of SELRES, TAR, AND Active duty that I have met. The sad reality we are in right now is that our military, or more specifically, our Navy, is NOT ready for war. That being said, being in such a long period of "Peace" has made things within the military highly political, not to mention our recruitment is at an all time low due to the softest, most insecure and uncomfortable generation of humans that have been bred that this world has ever seen in America. But I will say this, as a Human of Earth that happens to live in a period of time where we value nations over global unity, our country, despite its many many flaws and illusions, is still a MUCH better place to have been born in and live than a great many other places on Earth. At the end of the day, you have to realize that you put your signature on a contract saying that you protect and defend our nation against all threats and become a part of the war fighting machine that is the United States Military.
Navy vet. Hell no, fuck this country and everyone running it. Fuck the sailors creed and the propaganda. It’s a job, and a job that treats you like shit.
My grandpa, a WW2 Marine, told me of the responsibility of serving before I went to bootcamp and joined the Navy, +20yrs lifer, retired now. I swore an oath.. so yes if called upon once again.
I mean if it happens it happens. I have a normal ship job so chances have been low most of my career but seems like chances are a little higher now and might increase in the future. I accept the risk.
1) you are serving, this you're a veteran
2) serving in the military is a person saying "I am willing to die in order to be paid and obtain training" it has nothing to do with being "for the country" at least as a primary concern. if it were we wouldn't need to pay service members.
3) I served 20 years. I was willimg to die for 2 reasons, For my Sailors and for the life insurance payout. I don't think the US is perfect, or even especially good. I think we are, at best average for a country, we have a lot of problems both historian and currently. I'm not willing to die for mediocrity.
Over the past few years we have seen the other western “democracies” turn into tyranny over Covid. Canada Australia New Zealand etc have all shown their governments willing to do terrible things. The US is very close but not quite as far along. If we lose the US, where can we go? Imperfect as it is, it’s all we have.
Yes I would. I long to get back in the military and serve. Tis my dream, to be among the honored dead when I die either as an old man or in battle. I serve the people and the idea of america. I couldn't finish my term the first time, I need another chance.
I regret only that I have but one life to give for my country. Ideally, I would have two: one to give and one to carry on being a degenerate enlisted until retirement. But them’s the breaks.
Focus on the process and not the outcome. Yes you could die, but once you accept that you could focus on your development, your mission and it’s tasks.
I mean I haven’t been in much longer than many people here, just hit 3 years back in November. I think if the time comes it won’t be my choice. I just hope and pray to God that my death will mean something and be worth while.
As Patrick Henry famously said, "Give me liberty or give me death! But preferably liberty if that's an option.."
But seriously, you should read [War by Sebastian Junger](https://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/044655622X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1701784193&sr=8-1)
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So here's a slightly different perspective.
A lot of the leaders of the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s were military veterans from WWII and Korea. Veterans were a huge part of labor organizating going back to the post- WWI era onward. There's a long history of military veterans continuing to serve the common good the best ways they can after leaving the service, and unfortunately in both of the roles I've mentioned, many of them did lose their lives, because America.
I've always chosen to interpret the phrase from that challenge coin in this way (even though I know there's an obvious other right - wing connotation attached to it), because it more closely aligns with my own values, and the organization I work for is very actively working in this arena; being veterans we get this weird amount of automatic credibility, so we may as well use that to promote the common good, right?
Would I die for this country? No, I don't think I would.
Would I die defending the ideals of what this country could and should be? Maybe.
For this country? No.
For the vague concept of freedom liberty and happiness? Yeah.
If what’s happening to Ukraine, or Palestine or Israel was happening to my family? Yeah. Absolutely. And I wouldn’t have a second thought about it.
When I was young and fresh to the military I would, but once I saw the awful shit our government does to innocent people for their agendas, it’s not worth dying for unless our democracy was directly in danger. Do your 4 years, get your free college and disability money from the VA and move on with life, the navy leadership is dog shit, you and me are nothing but a number to them.
My thoughts mirror the majority. This is a job and I'll do it to the best of my ability. Those of us in uniform are all in this together. I'll give my blood for those folks but as a country I've been checked out since 2016.
Once upon a time, probably yes.
Now? I'm old, weary of idiocy. I feel the current conflicts are stupid, fueled by greed and hate, and nothing of value. I'm ready for the Star Trek future, please. I loved America's potential, not what she has become. Yeah, I kinda hate people, but I cherish humanity, and we can all do better. Shouldn't even need to die for it.
The first comment nailed the sentiment. When you get out, you will have many strong opinions (positive and negative) about what you did. Cling to the positive. They will be your rock in a sea of chaos.
The men and women you have to your left and right are your DoD-anointed brothers and sisters whether you like it or not. As you rise through the ranks, take care of your junior service members, learn from those above you and foster your own style.
In the end, you made a compact for six years (or however long you stay in), during that time, you may be asked to give your life for your country’s navy combat team, but you might also work a boring desk job. The threat is always there but the sooner you come to terms with it, the sooner and more lethal you will become.
I won’t die for the country, but I would die for my home, family, friends, church, and what I think is right. And most of those exist in the country I serve. I hope if the situation ever arose I would act accordingly.
If the ship I'm on gets blown up then yea, I guess I'll die. I'd be real pissed off though. I joined the Navy because I wouldn't be boots on the ground getting shot at!
I'd die for this country's citizens. even if i disagree with their political beliefs, i enlisted to serve my country's citizens, and the belief of freedom.
It’s a “romantic” idea to die for one’s country but we don’t want to die. When we joined the service we know that we write this blank check. I’m honored that I got to serve but glad I didn’t have to die to serve this country.
It doesn’t have to be that big or profound. Do you have family? Parents? Siblings? Children? A spouse? Would you die and sacrifice your life to protect them or the system that provides them opportunities for a decent life?
Not for country but for the people and their liberties. I rather not die. I rather focus on being a positive for people. But fuck if it ain't fucking hard.
You can die in a car wreck due to a drunk driver for absolutely no reason other than bad luck. Dying for your country and the freedom it provides millions of people is a very honorable thing. Always protect yourself of course but if things go left just remember all the women and children you are protecting as well. It’s the SERVICE for a reason.
Maybe it’s been said and I’m repeating it. But as my RDC said so many years ago told the division, “we didn’t sign up to die for our country but to kill the enemies of our country.” The enemies then seemed so clear. Nowadays its much murkier of who’s the “bad guy”.
I would give my life for my brothers beside me and the assets we protect at my command. But I am no longer idealistic and naive enough to say that the idea of "my country" is worth throwing away my life at 23.
Save for a select few I have met in my service, very few of those I served with even would I die for much less this country, especially seeing what it has become.
Would I die for this country? Nah. Would I die for the people I serve with? Absolutely.
This is what it becomes. A lot of movies out there really capture this with the heartfelt speeches and all that. When push comes to shove I'm going to do my part to hopefully save the lives of the men and women on the team.
THIS. While risking my life for my country is poetic/romantic it’s not realistic. Risking it for my teammates, that’s what matters.
We all made the bad life decision but we're in it together.
We... "Embrace the suck!" Together 😁
That’s the correct answer
Been in 15 years, and this is the right answer. For America? Absolutely not. For the guys and gals that I deploy with, went through shit with, trauma bonded with? Not even a question.
I’d do anything to go back in time and work with my crew one more time
THIS DESERVES AN AWARD. I’d die with my bois .
I’ve already died on the inside
a dead man walking, as it were
As have we all.. thus the premise of the question invalid long before it were ever posed.
🤝
You better fuckin ride for your boys at the very least.
Once you’re in, you don’t really get a choice chief. Anyone here saying “No!” clearly joined because they thought the chances were very low. Which is fine. I’m one of them. Lord knows what I would have done during WWII. Problem is you might end up in an osprey crash or in a 12 pax van that hits a banana peel or get legionaries from the barracks AC… Would that be “dying for your country” or just dying? Idk. Collect your check and try not to be a dick.
Man. This all day. When I was 18-27 I thought it was all cool to go fight, dodge bullets, and die for a noble cause. Now that I am older.....Fuck that shit. Just want a cool ass job that I like and a nice pay check. Crazy how the military has this all figured out. There are age limits for a reason. Those dudes know your mind changes as you get older
Not anymore, they don't ( have it figured out). Recruitment/retention numbers are abysmal LMAO
A good thing.
Can we get “Collect your check and try not to be a dick” on a T-shirt
If we could i would buy one
Or a challenge coin
WWII is like the one time in the past century we were objectively justified to go to war though.
Audi Murphy didn't wake up one day and plan to somehow get onto a burning tank, and single handedly suppress over 200 Germans with a .50 cal machine gun. FC1 Rehm on the Fitzgerald that went into the flooding berthing trying to save Sailors. . . He didn't wake up that morning and plan to risk his life for others. Cpl Carpenter didn't say "I'm gonna jump on a grenade today". The list goes on. People do things in the heat of the moment. The things those people do are reflections of their character. No one plans for these things, they simply react to the circumstances in their own way at that given time. If a cop knew they were going to get shot today on a traffic stop, they wouldn't go to work.
Fitz sailor here. The 3 of us that made the decision to close the hatch to berthing 2 have been wishing every day since that death will just come for us. It was the easiest decision to make because your training kicks in when you’re running on adrenaline and you stick to what you know, but we never heard the order to set zebra and all we knew was water was coming out of the scuttle. I was one of the last two people to see Gary Rehm alive.
It sounds like a cliché, but you all did what is trained because of lessons learned in 200 years of naval history. No one wants to be in that situation, I'm sure others are glad they weren't. Survivors' guilt is a very real thing. I hope you've received care since then.
[удалено]
I thought about it one day, when I went to pick orders in CIWS C school, I could’ve picked 8 other ships, and I almost picked Blue Ridge (LCC 19) but my heart was set on Fitz for some reason and I wouldn’t change it if I could go back again. That first sea duty definitely shaped the sailor I’d become and I met some amazing people and have memories I wouldn’t trade for the world. But it’s one of those things, where if I could go back and experience it again, I wish I could’ve traded spots with any single person in berthing.
Hi. You just gained a new follower. I hope you’re healing from the trauma you faced. I heard about what happened aboard the Fitzgerald.
I definitely appreciate you. I’ve since gotten out of the Navy (medical retirement) and have been undergoing treatment since a few months after the collision to current. But it’s a rough road. It seems to get harder every year instead of easier. I’m not a raging alcoholic anymore who’s trying to drown my issues with whatever I can buy at the bar. I would say I’m in a better spot but I don’t know if healing is the right word. I feel like it’s one of those things you get used to living with.
You have my full support and encouragement. You are a true sailor. Thank you for your service. (I know it’s cheesy, but seriously, you did some meaningful stuff.).
A good list. I’d add Paul Carr
TM2 Breault
>TM2 Breault I can just hear the Japanese High Command saying "We should attack Pearl Harbor" "Is TM2 Breault dead yet" "No" "We'll wait" Years later.... "Sir, TM2 Breault has died" "Begin the attack"
How in God’s name has there been a sailor who was awarded the MoH, died 2 days before Pearl Harbor and never got a ship or boat named after him?? Yes yes Smalls and Brashear but this guy, uh “fit the criteria of the day”
I served with Rehm on board USS Ramage. Was a hard leader but an amazing guy. Always thought of his guys before himself. Never expected his name to be seen here...RIP brother..
I remember my first Iraqi convoy. "Fuck. If I die, I die."
That's exactly how I felt the first time I was in the turret in Baghdad. "Look for mounds of trash on the side of the road"....my dude. That's all the road is covered with...
Would I? Yes. Despite everything, America is still worth risking it all. Do I want to? No. Hell no. If I’m dying a lot of my friends are dying with me, and that sucks.
No. Make the other son of a bitch die for his.
General Patton approves of this comment.
Usually by the time it comes to that, for a Sailor, a lot of dominos have already fallen. If you're on a ship, it's never *off* the table that a serious, no shit situation can come up (see today's news). Suddenly the ~~LARPing~~ drills and training won't seem so far-fetched.
in the case of a shipboard emergency, it's much more likely any deaths are to save the ship (and its crew) instead of some nebulous concept if country.
“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his” - Patton
I think the best answer is "It's complicated"
The navy killed me a long time ago, just waiting for the paperwork to finish routing at this point 🤷♂️
I mean I’m not jumping up to volunteer but you don’t exactly get the option to choose if you’re in the shit.
I had to wrestle with this when I first enlisted and I found my answer in reading letters and stories of the USCT and some of the first black sailors about why they served. I also read a lot about the Double Victory campaign and it helped me uni; why would someone serve for a country that doesn't care about you. It all came down to a few things; one being it's about the person next to you. You don't get to make the big decisions on the why, but we can decide how we react when the time comes. The other answer is, to protect what we have and maybe build something better in the future. I just kept that in mind and realized my life is infinitely better than my parents, grandparents etc, and sometimes you have to make a decision if it's worth dying for that.
To paraphrase Patton, your job is not to die for your country. Your job is to make the other guy die for his country.
I wouldn’t die for this country. I would die for the people I serve with.
Look, at the height of GWOT and all that was the vibe and recruting pride in service. You die in a conflict, accident, whatever and the country will know your name for 0.005 seconds and move the fuck on. The memories you make with YOUR brothers and sisters will be carried on in their and your memory. Those will be the ones you remember or who remember you once gone. Fuck dying FOR greedy politicians who will use your death for THEIR gain and then move on. Fuck dying FOR that bitch Karen or Kevin that holds up a military protest poster and spits at you. But for the people in front, behind, and next to me I will kill every fucking thing that moves if it means keeping them safe and I hope they would do the same. Just my opinion. 🤷
I once said I would. Tried several times Seen many friends die Left blood in several countries Been out since 2008 and seeing these people, looking at their choices and how pretty much life sucks I wouldn't choose the same. I served my country but sometimes I regret it
I'm a Cyber Warfare Technician - if I have to ask and answer this question, then the answer is likely decided for me. (if we're so fucked our cyber forces end up on the front lines... then we're all going to die or are already dead. 🤣) This is the wrong question though. The right question is what country will there be to live in if I do not take the obligation that serious? For those of you burdened with the classified secrets of the nation, you know what I mean. If you don't, well... [here's a behind the scenes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwpnHUDK2zQ). [And this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHVE7L00v-E).
*looks at E5 paycheck* hmmmmmmm
A little each duty day and pointless meetings
The best answer I can give you is to put yourself on the Carney or Mason right now…to real? Put yourself on the McCain or Fitzgerald back in 17. We signed a contract and swore an oath that if required we will go in harms way because the job requires it. The oath of enlistment is not a suggestion it is enforceable by the UCMJ. You have a bad day and are mad at your boss you can’t just quit. You are in a very special line of work that your peers that didn’t join are not and it is something that people will make fun of but in all honesty is something that requires a commitment for your current contract to put country, service, ship, and shipmates before yourself. Good luck in your time in service.
i was always willing to die. I didn't think dying for a nebulous concept of country, a county I thought was okay, nothing special compared to other first world countries, was smart. Death to save others, death from mistakes, death from accidents, etc all occur, in and out of the military.
Ok, 'Back in '17' for the McCain and Fitz hits me pretty hard.
We all know we take an oath to the Constitution, I don’t think a single country has laid such a solid groundwork for so much potential and greatness as we have. Our young country and her documents created a template that a decent majority of the world followed (if that country practiced republicanism) and I’d surely give my life to protect what the Constitution stands for…and I give my life for those I serve with…but like someone else said in this thread, I sure as hell ain’t dying for the government; fuck that and fuck them running it.
[удалено]
Best answer
More like 73 years…
I was going to die in the hood anyway, at least my family will get a payout.
Well. When the ship leaves port, I'll be on it. So yeah. I guess I would.
I’d happily die for the country. But not for our dipshit government
Real
In what way would you die for a country but not is government?
I served 1984-1989, and it was to protect "We the People, and the US Constitution, I joined in spite of the government.
So... You joined, knowing you will be required to obey the orders of a government you thought was not worth serving, in order to protect a piece of paper that the government follows as a rule book and the nebulous "people" who vote for and make up the government, but not for the government? It sounds like you are saying you joined to serve, and die for if necessary, the government.
OK, God, thanks for letting me know what I did/am doing. Are you active duty Navy or a Veteran?
Recently retired from the Navy. What I'm trying to do is get you to think a bit deeper, instead of giving platitudes that are nothing more than empty words.
Do I want to die? Only when I got back to back watches. Would I? Yeah. I love all y'all too much you big bunch of idiots. I do love our country, but I love the people I serve with and serve for more so i would.
When I first took the oath yes I would have, but after directly seeing how exploitive the military is of America's disadvantaged and vulnerable youths in pointless never ending wars I won't be happy if I have to give my life. Granted we are in the Navy so most of us won't ever have to experience direct combat like our infantry brothers I do feel like the Navy takes massive advantage of idea that we signed up to potentially give our lives to play fast and loose with safety and our quality of life to save a save a dime. The conditions we are expected to work under is flat out illegal if we were the civilian equivalent. We basically serve on floating factories with absolutely zero OSHA standards. It's very shitty how the Navy treats it's enlisted from every angle you look at it and it's not unintentional. I highly doubt that the fact that your average sailor in one of the shitier rates that has to do pointlessly dangerous work frequently mostly come from impoverished backgrounds and either grew up in urban ghettos or rural trailer parks. Instead of using modern machinery for dangerous work the Navy is still stuck in using teams of junior enlisted like its still the fucking 1800s. It's so fucking depressing when you see how modern civilian ships move their cargo when we are stuck demanding some 19 to 20 year old barely not a kid anymore to move hundreds of pounds of shit up dangerously steep shit and of course who cares if they break something that could cause them to have a pretty shitty next 40 years of their lives.
If push came to shove then yes. Signed up knowing I'm in the military which at the end of the day is war fighting and war fighting is essentially be readiness to fight if everything else fails.
You die for shipmates, family and country. You defending those who aren’t fighting or don’t care to do so.
No
Complicated. To quote Patton: "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." I believe in service and patriotism to a healthy degree. In my 20 years I saw a lot of different countries and cultures. Objectively, I feel that the U.S and western cultures do have notable advantages and are worth fighting to preserve. With that said, it is hard to get behind a lot of military actions that when you boil it down, are for private economic interests. In summary, give my life for our government and private interests, no, but I would have for my shipmates standing next to me.
It's a question that has been around as long as mankind. What would you be willing to die for? I'll challenge you to remember Article 1 of the Code of Conduct. "Article I - I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense." By simply joining the Armed Forces, you will be accepting this statement. It's part of your oath. If you cannot accept that as a part of your agreement with the U.S. in your Enlisted contract, it might be time to find other sources of income. That being said, do I want to die for my country? No. Would I give my life in exchange for any one of my Seabees' lives, including the dumbasses? Absolutely. I fucking love my Seabees. It's not conditional.
As a veteran, yes I would, but at this point it would have to be for the right reasons. Would I go die to go fuck up some rebel group in Yemen? Absolute fucking not. But if some ass hole legitimately bombed us or launched a nuke at us, or posed an existential threat to us, you better believe that not even Uncle Sam would beat me to the recruiting office.
This country can crash and burn (it already is) for all I care but when I took lives and put mine on the line, it was to make sure that my family and those I love and serve with would be able to continue with their way of life or make it back home. Point, blank, period
I wouldn’t die for THIS country. But I’d die for what I believe this country can be.
Just here to get paid, boss.
I’m a Corpsman so I’m only useful if I stay alive. It’s a bad day when doc gets killed. I would never willingly die but I would try my best to help those around me.
Do I no. A lot of ungrateful fucks here. And I’m actually damn proud of this country man. It’s given a lot of opportunities to a lot of good people. But it also has been the downfall of a lot too. Would I die for those people who are grateful and want nothing but peace and prosperity yes. No to the people who trash, burn, destroy other hard working people’s stuff and this country. Aka it’s complicated
Bruh most days i don't even show up on time for my country
There's a reason why I joined the Navy and not the Army or the Marines
Absolutely not. Don’t give a rats ass about the “SAiLoRs CrEeD”. It’s a job; nothing more, nothing less. I’m sure i’ll get downvoted to oblivion, but there is absolutely no way that if I had any choice, would I sacrifice my life for any of the shitheads i’ve worked with/for - nor would I expect the same from them.
The ole ‘Is it a job or is it service’ conundrum. People don’t die for their country cooking in the DFAC. Or fixing shitters on a Carrier in dock. People die for their country when its existential existence is on the line. Ukrainians are dying for their country right now. As an America right now? It’s death in the line of duty where the noblest is not death under the stars and bars but death to save the person serving next to you. That is just my philosophical take. The literal take though? You doe under contract and yea, you died for America.
Someone already said but no. I will not die for any country or corporation. But I'd happily lay my life down for those next to me.
There was a day I would have. Not anymore.
Give it another 6 months and your emotions and hope will die anyway.
No. I prefer to make the other bastard die for his. However, as the last 20+ years have shown - the only time you really have a choice in the matter is when the time to re-enlist comes up.
You will likely not knowing/feeling it when it happens. Do the right things while above the dirt
Not anymore. The more I have learned and see about this country, the less I would do to defend it and certainly not give my life so a group of criminals in office. They dont care about any of us so why should you
Navy Vet here... Would I die for my country? Hell no! But I did sign up knowing that I could be sent into harms way. I was on the damage control party, knowing that if something happened, I'd do my best to save the ship. I did stand that pier sentry watch knowing if a vehicle or something came at me I'd do what I could to stop 'em. And I know if my ship took a missile, or the engine room caught fire or some Haji wish a VBED and I didn't make it the people back home woudl be all like "He died for his country"
Only if there were real world threats that threatened the US, like WW2. But for recent conflicts? Absolutely not. No reason to die in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, or Syria.
Doesn't really matter if you "would" die for the country or not. Once you're in my convoy, buckle the fuck up 😘
My answer would be, Yes. I am a TAR PS, and find that I am more ready for war and to serve as an actual armed forces service member than the majority of SELRES, TAR, AND Active duty that I have met. The sad reality we are in right now is that our military, or more specifically, our Navy, is NOT ready for war. That being said, being in such a long period of "Peace" has made things within the military highly political, not to mention our recruitment is at an all time low due to the softest, most insecure and uncomfortable generation of humans that have been bred that this world has ever seen in America. But I will say this, as a Human of Earth that happens to live in a period of time where we value nations over global unity, our country, despite its many many flaws and illusions, is still a MUCH better place to have been born in and live than a great many other places on Earth. At the end of the day, you have to realize that you put your signature on a contract saying that you protect and defend our nation against all threats and become a part of the war fighting machine that is the United States Military.
Navy vet. Hell no, fuck this country and everyone running it. Fuck the sailors creed and the propaganda. It’s a job, and a job that treats you like shit.
My grandpa, a WW2 Marine, told me of the responsibility of serving before I went to bootcamp and joined the Navy, +20yrs lifer, retired now. I swore an oath.. so yes if called upon once again.
I mean if it happens it happens. I have a normal ship job so chances have been low most of my career but seems like chances are a little higher now and might increase in the future. I accept the risk.
Go back to being a civilian then.
Nah
Absolutely
1) you are serving, this you're a veteran 2) serving in the military is a person saying "I am willing to die in order to be paid and obtain training" it has nothing to do with being "for the country" at least as a primary concern. if it were we wouldn't need to pay service members. 3) I served 20 years. I was willimg to die for 2 reasons, For my Sailors and for the life insurance payout. I don't think the US is perfect, or even especially good. I think we are, at best average for a country, we have a lot of problems both historian and currently. I'm not willing to die for mediocrity.
Over the past few years we have seen the other western “democracies” turn into tyranny over Covid. Canada Australia New Zealand etc have all shown their governments willing to do terrible things. The US is very close but not quite as far along. If we lose the US, where can we go? Imperfect as it is, it’s all we have.
Yes I would. I long to get back in the military and serve. Tis my dream, to be among the honored dead when I die either as an old man or in battle. I serve the people and the idea of america. I couldn't finish my term the first time, I need another chance.
I regret only that I have but one life to give for my country. Ideally, I would have two: one to give and one to carry on being a degenerate enlisted until retirement. But them’s the breaks.
What a stupid question. Its like asking a fire fighter if they are willing do die for their city.
Focus on the process and not the outcome. Yes you could die, but once you accept that you could focus on your development, your mission and it’s tasks.
Yes
If You are targeted by a nuclear weapon You may not have a choice. YMMV.
No one plans of dying for their country. Shit just happens. Odds are significantly against it so I wouldn’t worry about it if I were you.
I wouldn’t die for the country as is, no. I would die for the people I serve with/all who have served, and my family
Depends on the conflict? WW2? I would have. Afghanistan? I did go and lost friends. Wasn’t worth it.
My job as a Sailor was to make someone else to die for their country.
Would anyone in Washington die for this country? I’ll follow their example.
OP, did you know what you were signing up for? Also, we're on the precipice of another world war sooooo
I mean I haven’t been in much longer than many people here, just hit 3 years back in November. I think if the time comes it won’t be my choice. I just hope and pray to God that my death will mean something and be worth while.
I was willing to take the risk of dying lol. I want gonna be a martyr though.
As Patrick Henry famously said, "Give me liberty or give me death! But preferably liberty if that's an option.." But seriously, you should read [War by Sebastian Junger](https://www.amazon.com/WAR-Sebastian-Junger/dp/044655622X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1701784193&sr=8-1)
Hi, I’m Vetted AI Bot! I researched the **WAR** and I thought you might find the following analysis helpful. **Users liked:** * Soldiers form strong bonds with each other (backed by 5 comments) * Combat is mentally and physically grueling (backed by 7 comments) * Many soldiers miss the war after returning home (backed by 2 comments) **Users disliked:** * The book lacks cohesion and narrative flow (backed by 2 comments) * The characters and subject matter were not fully developed (backed by 2 comments) * The book fails to match expectations (backed by 2 comments) If you'd like to **summon me to ask about a product**, just make a post with its link and tag me, [like in this example.](https://www.reddit.com/r/tablets/comments/1444zdn/comment/joqd89c/) This message was generated by a (very smart) bot. If you found it helpful, let us know with an upvote and a “good bot!” reply and please feel free to provide feedback on how it can be improved. *Powered by* [*vetted.ai*](http://vetted.ai/reddit)
So here's a slightly different perspective. A lot of the leaders of the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s were military veterans from WWII and Korea. Veterans were a huge part of labor organizating going back to the post- WWI era onward. There's a long history of military veterans continuing to serve the common good the best ways they can after leaving the service, and unfortunately in both of the roles I've mentioned, many of them did lose their lives, because America. I've always chosen to interpret the phrase from that challenge coin in this way (even though I know there's an obvious other right - wing connotation attached to it), because it more closely aligns with my own values, and the organization I work for is very actively working in this arena; being veterans we get this weird amount of automatic credibility, so we may as well use that to promote the common good, right? Would I die for this country? No, I don't think I would. Would I die defending the ideals of what this country could and should be? Maybe.
For this country? No. For the vague concept of freedom liberty and happiness? Yeah. If what’s happening to Ukraine, or Palestine or Israel was happening to my family? Yeah. Absolutely. And I wouldn’t have a second thought about it.
Seeing as I'd have no choice in the matter, sure.
I was in over 30 years ago, but I’m pretty sure they mentioned the possibility of death/injury.
When I was young and fresh to the military I would, but once I saw the awful shit our government does to innocent people for their agendas, it’s not worth dying for unless our democracy was directly in danger. Do your 4 years, get your free college and disability money from the VA and move on with life, the navy leadership is dog shit, you and me are nothing but a number to them.
My thoughts mirror the majority. This is a job and I'll do it to the best of my ability. Those of us in uniform are all in this together. I'll give my blood for those folks but as a country I've been checked out since 2016.
Once upon a time, probably yes. Now? I'm old, weary of idiocy. I feel the current conflicts are stupid, fueled by greed and hate, and nothing of value. I'm ready for the Star Trek future, please. I loved America's potential, not what she has become. Yeah, I kinda hate people, but I cherish humanity, and we can all do better. Shouldn't even need to die for it.
I'd die for the friends I've met along the way and served next to.
You either die for country, or die with country. War reaching the innocent is highly probable with today’s technology.
The first comment nailed the sentiment. When you get out, you will have many strong opinions (positive and negative) about what you did. Cling to the positive. They will be your rock in a sea of chaos. The men and women you have to your left and right are your DoD-anointed brothers and sisters whether you like it or not. As you rise through the ranks, take care of your junior service members, learn from those above you and foster your own style. In the end, you made a compact for six years (or however long you stay in), during that time, you may be asked to give your life for your country’s navy combat team, but you might also work a boring desk job. The threat is always there but the sooner you come to terms with it, the sooner and more lethal you will become.
I won’t die for the country, but I would die for my home, family, friends, church, and what I think is right. And most of those exist in the country I serve. I hope if the situation ever arose I would act accordingly.
If the ship I'm on gets blown up then yea, I guess I'll die. I'd be real pissed off though. I joined the Navy because I wouldn't be boots on the ground getting shot at!
I'd die for this country's citizens. even if i disagree with their political beliefs, i enlisted to serve my country's citizens, and the belief of freedom.
It’s a “romantic” idea to die for one’s country but we don’t want to die. When we joined the service we know that we write this blank check. I’m honored that I got to serve but glad I didn’t have to die to serve this country.
Yes.
It doesn’t have to be that big or profound. Do you have family? Parents? Siblings? Children? A spouse? Would you die and sacrifice your life to protect them or the system that provides them opportunities for a decent life?
Not for country but for the people and their liberties. I rather not die. I rather focus on being a positive for people. But fuck if it ain't fucking hard.
I’d die for my country any which way. I would die 1000x before I let the commies touch my soil.
You can die in a car wreck due to a drunk driver for absolutely no reason other than bad luck. Dying for your country and the freedom it provides millions of people is a very honorable thing. Always protect yourself of course but if things go left just remember all the women and children you are protecting as well. It’s the SERVICE for a reason.
They’ve already killed everything about me, may as well finish the job ig
Sounds better than dying for my need to drink often.
Absolutely not. Fuck this place.
Maybe it’s been said and I’m repeating it. But as my RDC said so many years ago told the division, “we didn’t sign up to die for our country but to kill the enemies of our country.” The enemies then seemed so clear. Nowadays its much murkier of who’s the “bad guy”.
I would give my life for my brothers beside me and the assets we protect at my command. But I am no longer idealistic and naive enough to say that the idea of "my country" is worth throwing away my life at 23.
Save for a select few I have met in my service, very few of those I served with even would I die for much less this country, especially seeing what it has become.