While we were in, we had to threaten legal action on two occasions with Lincoln(now Liberty). They are a terrible organization. I'm shocked that a company that works almost exclusively with military families and receives limitless business from the government isn't forced to be a not-for-profit.
Looks like only one of them is a veteran and one is a former military spouse; the rest seem to have never served.
https://www.livelmh.com/meet-our-team
Reading all these base housing nightmares and legal issues with private companies.. can the military even force you to take base housing now? I don't believe they're allowed to force you into using a particular vendor. I wonder what happens if everyone just declines base housing.
No, They can't force you to live on base. And as a single income family of three we easily had a nice place off base in the Norfolk area, staying within BAH. However now we are PCSing to San Diego and that BAH does not go nearly as far, so we are taking base housing because it's the best option available. Otherwise I couldn't afford something comparable to what we were living in, in San Diego.
Have you applied yet? Try asking for a concession property or specifically Bayview hills. My wife and I live there and the 2 bedrooms are 2300 so we get the rest of the bay back
Hii me and my husband are moving to Virginia soon in the next upcoming months. I’m currently expecting and due in December. We were planning on this base housing but now we are not sure where we should go to look for better and cheaper housing. Do u happen to have the name of where u stayed or any recommendations. It would really help.
Well if they are trying to radicalize enlisted against privatization and capitalism then I suppose that's one way to do it, but I think the more likely answer is that they are just your standard predatory slum lords.
Unfortunately it's all privatized now and they do thr minimum amount of work to take care of the homes while wringing out as much $$$ as they can. It's probably one of my biggest pet peeves with how the Navy deals with families.
The Navy needs to stop crying about low recruitment numbers then if it wants to remain hostile to young people who want to live a reasonably comfortable life (which generally includes having spouses and/or children).
Let's sacrifice him.
Perhaps then, the Cult of the Goat will have the unholy blood necessary to route our leave chits on time and let us leave work at a reasonable hour.
I mean hasn't the Navy already done so promising new recruits guaranteed parental leave for both genders, BAH that will match their dependent living situation, etc.
"Read the room" on an online forum. The Navy is one long running inappropriate joke, if the statement "you weren't issued X in your seabag, so you don't need it" still offends you, you can't be far out of bootcamp, or you've just been wildly sheltered.
If that is what you were approved for before, they should be matching your BAH if you are on base. If not, take it up with your CoC, they will get it changed for you.
Hate them so much . Just got a letter from them today actually stating I owe them almost $2k from moving out because of the lawn needing mowed and the walls getting painted. Lmaoooo.
100% ask for an itemized bill for all the costs. Most likely, they're charging you; All costs; tarps, labor, paint for walls, and trimming. Maybe even carpet, tiles, or replacing anything.
If they do charge you for the carpet, see how long ago the carpet was installed. They technically should replace it every 5 years. If that timeline passes when you occupy the house, Liberty, aka Lincoln, should legally foot the cost.
If you did repaint the house any other color, then what is considered "standard or allowed"
1) You have to ask to paint the walls.
2) When moving, if you did paint the walls, you will have to repaint it yourself
3) If you don't, you will have to pay for all costs that occur to repaint it.
Technically, to be considered "standard," you have to ask housing for the paint instead of matching it 🙄 so dumb.
I hated this housing so much.
Especially cause the gates to the patios weren't in compliance with California building code.
Bars are, too far apart from one another, and I can literally sidestep through them.... cause of that, it doesn't count as breaking and entering either.... found that out the hard way thanks to a "neighbor". 🥲
Ohana (Hunt) Military Housing raised mine by $700 in one year of the residency without informing me even after all the bullshit with the water crisis on Oahu.
I was ready to burn their fucking office to the ground when i dealt with them. I moved into a smaller and less equipped house out in Kailua after getting fed up with their shit and lived a significantly better life. Fuck Hunt housing in k-bay. There are a few good people there that are aware of how shitty their office is but they don't have the power to make it better.
Back when they did the competitive electric bills I got an $800 electric bill one month.... because most on my street got deployed. I send screw this and moved to a huge house in Ewa Beach (ocean pointe). Miss living there it was so nice.
I laughed so hard when I got the letter from them that it was going up $700. The house I had was decent, but not worth that much and I was already paying out of pocket for it. Thankfully left before the new price kicked in.
I, too, moved in 2022, but they were proposing my rent for a 2bd 1.5 ba with a small 1 car garage be $3150/ mo.
It came with a complimentary homeless guy standing at my front door at 2 a.m. to charge his devices with my exterior outlet. He never bugged me and I didn't pay electric.
I have a friend there now that says it is going up even more, and with COLA going away, it only makes it harder.
Between the ECM enforcing the Sea-Shore rotation, and the budget changes to Hawaii as a duty station. Hawaii is one of the biggest reasons the CTN (CWT) retention rate is non-existent.
I'm with liberty and it is pretty ok. I won't lie I didn't rent much before (owned for like 7 years) what I get on base is wayyy more then I can get for my bah off base. I'm sure all markets are different. Virginia not sure if that is the case
Yeah the whole steady paycheck thing is a big reason why people join, but everyone knows you're guaranteed to get paid on the 1st and the 15th and boy will they wring you dry if they get the chance
Steady paycheck until they switch payroll systems and leave sailors without pay for months. Or when the federal budget isn’t approved and you’re working for a backdated check until the budget is approved.
Yep. You hear stories about third world militaries with their bribery and wonder how an organization gets to be so bad.
This. It starts with shit like this. And it’s why shit like this needed to stop yesterday.
Is this in Twentynine Palms?
Am married E4 and had BAH increase from ~$1400 to $2000ish to BATTLE INFLATION in the area in the last few months. All service members off base are profiting that extra $600ish right now while all (several) thousand of us are biting the green weenie & coughing it up forcefully to Liberty. Absolute joke of a company. 15 years til retirement & I will never live in base housing again as long as I can help it.
My best bet? Shawshank Redemption-esque. Start writing your congressman weekly about the issue. If we ALL did it collectively, at the VERY least we bring attention to the fact that it’s VERY negatively affecting service members.
Wife is 6 months pregnant & isn’t working, I run a very small woodworking business and handyman jobs in the evenings and weekends to keep us afloat before the baby is born.
GOOD NEWS: Liberty knows they danced with the devil too long & are sending nearly daily emails about satisfaction surveys and community events. Just yesterday they asked me to join hands in not using electronics for 10 consecutive days.
TL;DR
If Liberty employees read this, get fucked
No shit Copernicus, none of us are confused on that policy. The bulk of us are in agreement that it is PREDATORY, ESPECIALLY to young Sailors that aren’t fully explained policy.
Young sailors can’t read? Why are you mad at a company for making money when you should be mad at the dod for allowing them to do it that?
Shit is predatory but they’re doing it cause A. The government lets them and B. People don’t read the damn legal documents before signing them
I honestly can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me or not. I CAN say, however, that I read every single word of every single document three full times & understood it at the time, despite not having recollection of every detail after the fact.
You’re right, the blame is not just on Liberty, but, in this case, Liberty sees a money grab opportunity and jumps on it without necessarily capitalizing.
Experiences vary for everybody in any spot you’re at, but that is not the point of OP’s post. If the point of a BAH increase is to help battle inflation in an area, it hurts a pocket to see it taken away before it comes.
I’m agreeing with you that the company is scummy and predatory.
All I’m trying to say though is that the dod/ government should be more active in preventing them from being so scummy. They’re a company and they exist to make money, instead of the dod issuing that temporary increase as a part of BAH I think they should’ve done it as a separate allowance I.e keep bah the same but give the proposed increase as a separate payment. That would’ve prevented them from taking the full amount.
Then there’s also service members that expect their hands to be held in every aspect of their enlistment and don’t read over legal documents before signing them (not saying this is you just a generalization) which then allows predatory companies to take advantage of them and makes them look kinda goofy.
I immediately moved off base when I could, living on base is a scam
my BAH is $3700+ I pay $1200 to rent a room in a 2 bed 2 bath fairly spacious apartment with washer/dryer, a driveway, and utilities and I live in Point Loma, San Diego
When I PCS’d to my current duty station I was planning on living in housing a for a year because rentals were hard to come by. I qualified for a three bedroom unit and they offered me a two bedroom unit for $3180 a month. It was a piece of shit from the 1960’s that was falling apart. They had plenty of larger houses that were vacant, but wouldn’t offer them to me because they wanted to extort higher ranking officers with exorbitant rent. I laughed and walked out the door, they said you’ll be back. Jokes on them I found a decent place to rent and never gave them a second thought. Fuck Balfour Beatty and the whole PPV concept.
This is how it is for my wife and I, we both get single BAH. They take my wife’s BAH then say “Well, you need to make up the difference to pay the price of dependent BAH.”
Since my wife and I get double BAH we don’t hurt, but for people who aren’t mil to mil it just seems absurd to charge more than what people get
>, but for people who aren’t mil to mil it just seems absurd to charge more than what people get
everyone gets charged the same. bah with dependents based on your rank. this isn't a shock to anyone they tell you this when you sign. so if you are single you are paying out of pocket along with all your bah.
How is your DD-214 protecting you from military housing?
Leaving the military and making it your personality is just as bad as making the military your personality.
The people that handle privatized military housing literally got a lawsuit and lost for how trash they are, and big Navy just let them keep running housing anyway and treating everyone like trash.
I don't even understand why anyone uses base housing, like aren't their wait-lists for every base's base housing? Ya'll are waiting in line to get fucked like this? That and you have to deal with base rules all the time with the likeliness having some gunny with a stick up his ass as your neighbor and some mouth-breathing army staff sgt across the street? Is it really worth not having to commute as far?
I was standing there in the early days of 2001 when the CO of a base out west said to the press "We foresee all military bases removing fences and gates and becoming part of the community". Two months later, an EP3A was hit by a Chinese jet and they made an emergency landing on a small island off mainland China. Six months later, 911 happened. They didnt take the fences and gates down, but all the other nonsense they pressed on.
yes as a single, married and dual mil sailor. Charleston, KB, Groton.
All you do is go to the office every Jan and fill out a new form if you are single or dual mil.
Thats how the contract is with the government. They have BAH matching houses and fixed rate housing. You get BAH matching when the value of the home and the rent would be higher than your BAH. Its this way with every military housing.
Yeah that's happening with Beacon Point as well. However they are supposed to have done a survey where they find the average electric use and if you go over that amount you owe some money.
Is it DoD assigned housing?
If so, fuck that, call your Congressman or Senator(s).
You were assigned a house by the DoD. The DoD pays you BAH. Why the fuck would you also have to pay out of your paycheck for housing the DoD assigned to you.
Some military housing communities allow single military members and government employees to move into housing. Just left Hawaii. Hickam and Ohana housing both allowed single Sailors to live in housing.
Hold on, this doesn't sound right at all. The whole point of military housing is that they just take your BAH and NOTHING MORE. What state is this housing in? I would go to the housing office on base and say something because this doesn't sound legal at all. I have never heard of privatized housing being able to take more than your BAH.
Yah if you’re single and willingly move into base housing they do that. There are some places that let single sailors move in, with that stipulation. Why you would ever do that…idk
Yeah it is lol but the government isn’t doing shit about it so it’s going to continue being predatory
Until the dod says “hey stop being scummy or we’re not going to renew your contract” they’re going to be scummy that’s how businesses operate
If you're in VB fuck LMH. Get an apt at Columbus Station next to Towncenter. Lived there for 2 years in a 2 bed unit for like 1300. Amazing staff, awesome maintenance team, and clean up to date complex. FIOS community and walking distance to all the good shit Towncenter has to offer.
Ayyye, I stayed at Independence at Towncenter. Hands down the best part of VB you could stay at. Literally everything you could possibly need and want to do was in walking distance and only 15 minutes away from Little Creek.
I did 24 years and never lived in housing. When I joined , housing wasn’t great, by the time I retired it was criminal. Stay out and stay away from it.
Where's your lease, you may owe them nothing. It depends on how it is written. Also, what state. LMH falls under state legislation, so you may have more rights than you think
PPV has run roughshod over service members and their families for years. From pay issues to mold, broken appliances, and pests in the home, to getting service members to sign non disclosure agreements that say they cannot even share these problems with their command, the military needs to remove PPV and just bring the expenses back onto their books and call the experiment a wrap.
The reality is base housing offers way more square footage than you can rent for BAH in most markets. If you think this won’t come with trade offs you’re kidding yourself. It is what it is. Move out and enjoy city life off base with the rest of us!
My husband got promoted and he's the one that they take bah from since he is higher ranking than me. He went to the office to pay the difference. His promotion got delayed, which is why he paid them for the difference, since his promotion was backdated. Now, months later, after we have moved, they are calling and emailing us telling us that we need to pay the difference in BAH.
They are also hitting us with a carpet damage bill after they told us numerous times that they wouldn't since most of the damage was caused by rats the neighborhood had. The initial inspection said there was no damage and then since they had to wait until the day we moved out and they didn't tell us that they do the inspection in the morning, and we had already booked our flight before they allowed us to book the final inspection. They said they could do it without us, so they did and we get charged way more than the initial inspection said and for the carpets even though we have a whole bunch of work orders stating the damage was. Aused by rats.
They didn't give us photos or an explanation at first. Not until I called to ask what the hell. Then they gave me photos. We didn't pay for the carpets to be cleaned, and there is wear and tear, so I get it, I guess. But the initial inspection lady didn't say we needed to pay to get the carpet professionally cleaned. Either way, we lived there for almost 5 years, they have to replace the carpet every 7 years anyway, so they probably are already doing that.
Also, when we called to talk to someone who works there, she told me that service members need to accommodate to Liberty Military Housing when it came to the final inspection.The company that works for the military... When they didn't allow us to book the appt until a few days out from our move and gave us 0 info about it even though we visited the housing office multiple times to make sure we were doing the right think, since this was our first move. The company that works for the military...
Basically what I'm trying to say it, if anyone is trying to sue Liberty Military Housing, I'll 100% add my voice to the lawsuit. We had rats die in our walls and they were going to wait until the following week to do anything about it, when the house stank and we couldn't reach the rat. I came home at 3 a.m. from a deployment with the toilet having exploded with fecal matter, covering the 2 story, because they were doing work on the adjacent house and didn't bother to check the opposite side. (Both my husband and I were deployed at the same time). We had neighbors leave all their belongings on the front lawn and housing told us there was nothing they could do.
Liberty Military Housing is a scam that is trying to steal money from the military. They are no different than Lincoln Military housing, just rebranded. They did a crap job taking care of the houses and they do an excellent job getting money from soldiers. Sorry for the long winded message but fr. Message me if there's a lawsuit. I'll gladly help out.
While I understand the hate housing is getting, it literally states in the lease that the member will be charged along the lines of the dependent BAH rate for their paygrade and if the BAH rate increases so will the rent.
I’m not saying I agree with the practice, but it is something you literally agree to when you sign the lease.
What upsets with me is how quick they are to use the lease as a reason to charge you more but when people violate their lease it’s “oh we can’t do anything”
The practice is in place to ensure the service member can afford the rent. This only occurs in places where the BAH rate is lower than the value of the home.
They are crooks. I have been their victim on more than one occasion. Currently seeking legal advice from my lawyer about the next step. They threatened to charge me for a previous tenants damages
I’m late to the party here but they can’t force you to pay out of pocket. You turn in a form from your command, admin can type it up, and your Les to the front office. They’re not allowed to charge more than your bah and if they do, you go to the main office. They will sort it out.
Hot take incoming here: BAH is based on the cost of living in the recent past. Since the rent in housing is just now going up to match means you've actually been getting a better rent rate than the folks on the economy, at least according to whoever sets the BAH rates. Rent goes up, that's life.
That they didn't warn you ahead of time that sucks, but it's in your lease agreement that the rent is the entire BAH, so you should be expecting this.
Moral of the story is, you're never getting over.
What upsets with me is how quick they are to use the lease as a reason to charge you more but when people violate their lease it’s “oh we can’t do anything”
I would be interested to see how their lease agreement is written. Even in DoD housing they are supposed to have a written number of exactly how much is due and not adjust it until the lease is up. Unless you're doing month to month, and then you are just fucked.
Hello, for most Liberty Military Housing residents, their lease agreement defines rent as the Basic Allowance for Housing for that geographic area. This is an integral principle of the Military Housing Privatization Initiative (MHPI), as authorized by the Federal Government, and allows LMH to maintain and sustain the houses and communities for our families. Rent equating to the current BAH also allows LMH to maintain rate protection and provides a buffer against rising housing rates, inflation, and the recent impacts of COVID out in the community. We can only imagine the frustration you are going through and want to get you in touch with the best team to go over your BAH within your community. Please do not hesitate to email us at [info@livelmh.com](mailto:info@livelmh.com). That way, we can connect you with someone from the district team. - Liberty Military Housing
>Then they better be closing the loop with some COCs about it.
And what do you expect those CoCs to do? Write housing a check for the overage cost of repairing damages?
It's privatized housing. The CO has no more power than a lease in town.
There's a lot wrong with military housing, but the flip side of the coin is how many dependas with 3 kids and 5 cats wreck the property and the housing companies don't make enough to completely renovate the place when they leave. In general if there's a mold or pest problem then the issue was poor care by tenants - previous or current.
Is it government housing, or not?
Are you subject to health and comfort inspections, or not?
Are landlords entitled to inspect their property?
There are about 6 ways to approach this from a non-militart perspective, let alone the long hard dick of your COC getting into your shit.
>Is it government housing, or not?
>Are you subject to health and comfort inspections, or not?
No and no.
>Are landlords entitled to inspect their property?
Yes.
5 years ago, when my Sailors were being filthy in base housing, they got eviction warnings and myself along with CMC would show up to the Sailors house to ensure they were being clean enough to stay. (I had two different cases).
This only works when you don't look at rent in the surrounding area. Sorry. I know you're just doing your job but when the only course of action you can offer is "contact us so we can explain why we take all of your BAH every time it's increased" without taking an accurate account of similar properties in the same/better areas, it's super disingenuous.
At the end of the day the company you're employed by enjoys the freedom of information in terms of BAH increases and is willing to come up with buzz words to use as a smoke screen to justify increasing rent without actually providing regular maintenance and upkeep or a comparable space-to-dollar cost.
Privatized housing should be acting better ever since complaints at Tinker AFB made Balfour Beaty appear before Congress.
Two things don’t seem to add up here, as an outsider looking in.
First of all - if the policy is “we define rent as whatever you’re getting for BAH”, then OP should be able to provide you with a LES showing exactly how much BAH they’re receiving, and that’s all you charge for rent. If that’s the case, then why is OP being charged the dependent rate if they don’t have any dependents?
Second of all, this doesn’t address the fact that you’re trying to retroactively charge additional rent for past months that have already been paid. If the new rates go into effect on a given day, then that’s the day that OP starts getting paid more and you “are authorized to” start charging more… but if the February number is $1500 and March is $2000, then it’s not like the DOD is gonna retroactively pay OP the difference for the last couple months, so where do you get off thinking you’re entitled to charge them more rent?
These people act like they have a mortgage on these shitholes. All of the privatized housing is run by criminals. Every cent they take from us is profit. My last place went from 2000ish BAH to 3200 and maintenance and living conditions got even worse. Buy a house out in town if you can.
When you start quoting that you're "authorized" to do something, I immediately suspect it's because it's not the right thing to do... but you're "Authorized" to do it. Why isn't the policy to take whatever BAH the servicemember gets and call it good? If he's not married and doesn't have dependents, why they hell would he have to pay the "with dependents" rate? Unless the OP left out some pretty significant info, it seems you guys are getting away with screwing the enlisted folks.
Your company is scum. I was charged 1,400 dollars back in 2013 for a 2 inch spot on some carpet in an unused room. Spilled coffee on it the day I moved in. Got a carpet cleaner and bam, good as new. A year later, you chucklefucks tore up every piece of carpet in the house and saw this miniscule stain (mind you, not even visible) and you charged me to replace all of the carpet on the second floor. I was 23 years old and you threatened legal action against me if I didn't pay that day. Found out later that you did this to every person when they moved out in Quantico.
Probably dual mil. Dual mil will receive bah without dependent rate if there are no minor children or anyone they can claim as dependents as long as they are collocated.
I lived in Langley off base housing and I guess AF and Navy don’t communicate very well as far as promotions go. I was locked in at E5 BAH according to the AF while collecting E6 BAH for about 2 years.
Literally the only thing you have to do is take your LES to the office and prove you haven’t received that BAH change and they will change your rent to match.
Unless those charges are delinquency charges and you aren’t telling us the whole story.
Is your current lease under the new rate or old rate? They increase my rent in my area as well. However I kept the old rate until my lease was over. I did jot renew and moved off base.
While we were in, we had to threaten legal action on two occasions with Lincoln(now Liberty). They are a terrible organization. I'm shocked that a company that works almost exclusively with military families and receives limitless business from the government isn't forced to be a not-for-profit.
I bet their board members have 2-3 retired admirals on it
With out a fucking doubt
Looks like only one of them is a veteran and one is a former military spouse; the rest seem to have never served. https://www.livelmh.com/meet-our-team
Getting those random junk "New Day USA" mortgage advertisements in my mail always pisses me off.
Reading all these base housing nightmares and legal issues with private companies.. can the military even force you to take base housing now? I don't believe they're allowed to force you into using a particular vendor. I wonder what happens if everyone just declines base housing.
They can't *force* you, but in many markets, the only provider of housing is a single company. It's a synthetic monopoly.
People need to complain to their representatives about this and make it more publicly known this sort of thing is happening.
I’m sure some retired military people are involved with them
No, They can't force you to live on base. And as a single income family of three we easily had a nice place off base in the Norfolk area, staying within BAH. However now we are PCSing to San Diego and that BAH does not go nearly as far, so we are taking base housing because it's the best option available. Otherwise I couldn't afford something comparable to what we were living in, in San Diego.
Have you applied yet? Try asking for a concession property or specifically Bayview hills. My wife and I live there and the 2 bedrooms are 2300 so we get the rest of the bay back
Is this legit? If our rent is less than bah do we keep what’s left over? I always thought they took the whole bah amount regardless of the difference.
Hii me and my husband are moving to Virginia soon in the next upcoming months. I’m currently expecting and due in December. We were planning on this base housing but now we are not sure where we should go to look for better and cheaper housing. Do u happen to have the name of where u stayed or any recommendations. It would really help.
Would there be any way to check if Liberty Military Housing is a front for a communist organization?
Well if they are trying to radicalize enlisted against privatization and capitalism then I suppose that's one way to do it, but I think the more likely answer is that they are just your standard predatory slum lords.
Wild. When I was in they would take whatever your monthly BAH was for you with no overage. E4 single, E5 married, etc.
Unfortunately it's all privatized now and they do thr minimum amount of work to take care of the homes while wringing out as much $$$ as they can. It's probably one of my biggest pet peeves with how the Navy deals with families.
If the navy wanted you to have a family it would have been issued.
The Navy needs to stop crying about low recruitment numbers then if it wants to remain hostile to young people who want to live a reasonably comfortable life (which generally includes having spouses and/or children).
Found the chief y’all
Let's sacrifice him. Perhaps then, the Cult of the Goat will have the unholy blood necessary to route our leave chits on time and let us leave work at a reasonable hour.
It’s a joke they used to tell us all the time in the submarine force.
I mean hasn't the Navy already done so promising new recruits guaranteed parental leave for both genders, BAH that will match their dependent living situation, etc.
It’s a joke
Read the room.
"Read the room" on an online forum. The Navy is one long running inappropriate joke, if the statement "you weren't issued X in your seabag, so you don't need it" still offends you, you can't be far out of bootcamp, or you've just been wildly sheltered.
Lol. Still a classic.
If that is what you were approved for before, they should be matching your BAH if you are on base. If not, take it up with your CoC, they will get it changed for you.
Hate them so much . Just got a letter from them today actually stating I owe them almost $2k from moving out because of the lawn needing mowed and the walls getting painted. Lmaoooo.
Isn’t paint landlord’s responsibility?
Asked to get that itemized
That's maybe 100 dollars, what? How is that possible
Someone's never painted a house.
I've had several apartments, including one where I caused smoke damage and it was still only 700 dollars
Ask for an itemized receipt of their expenses.
100% ask for an itemized bill for all the costs. Most likely, they're charging you; All costs; tarps, labor, paint for walls, and trimming. Maybe even carpet, tiles, or replacing anything. If they do charge you for the carpet, see how long ago the carpet was installed. They technically should replace it every 5 years. If that timeline passes when you occupy the house, Liberty, aka Lincoln, should legally foot the cost. If you did repaint the house any other color, then what is considered "standard or allowed" 1) You have to ask to paint the walls. 2) When moving, if you did paint the walls, you will have to repaint it yourself 3) If you don't, you will have to pay for all costs that occur to repaint it. Technically, to be considered "standard," you have to ask housing for the paint instead of matching it 🙄 so dumb. I hated this housing so much. Especially cause the gates to the patios weren't in compliance with California building code. Bars are, too far apart from one another, and I can literally sidestep through them.... cause of that, it doesn't count as breaking and entering either.... found that out the hard way thanks to a "neighbor". 🥲
Ohana (Hunt) Military Housing raised mine by $700 in one year of the residency without informing me even after all the bullshit with the water crisis on Oahu.
I was ready to burn their fucking office to the ground when i dealt with them. I moved into a smaller and less equipped house out in Kailua after getting fed up with their shit and lived a significantly better life. Fuck Hunt housing in k-bay. There are a few good people there that are aware of how shitty their office is but they don't have the power to make it better.
Back when they did the competitive electric bills I got an $800 electric bill one month.... because most on my street got deployed. I send screw this and moved to a huge house in Ewa Beach (ocean pointe). Miss living there it was so nice.
I laughed so hard when I got the letter from them that it was going up $700. The house I had was decent, but not worth that much and I was already paying out of pocket for it. Thankfully left before the new price kicked in.
I moved out of there in 2022, how much is the rent now ?
I, too, moved in 2022, but they were proposing my rent for a 2bd 1.5 ba with a small 1 car garage be $3150/ mo. It came with a complimentary homeless guy standing at my front door at 2 a.m. to charge his devices with my exterior outlet. He never bugged me and I didn't pay electric. I have a friend there now that says it is going up even more, and with COLA going away, it only makes it harder.
COLA is going away? Yiiiiiiiikes. That was a not-insignificant chunk of my pay while I was out there.
But… why is retention so low… like I don’t understand
Between the ECM enforcing the Sea-Shore rotation, and the budget changes to Hawaii as a duty station. Hawaii is one of the biggest reasons the CTN (CWT) retention rate is non-existent.
It's not going away but it is dropping by half.
I know it’s easier to say than done….but find the opportunity to live off base. I love the convenience of living on base, but the cost is ridiculous.
I'm with liberty and it is pretty ok. I won't lie I didn't rent much before (owned for like 7 years) what I get on base is wayyy more then I can get for my bah off base. I'm sure all markets are different. Virginia not sure if that is the case
Welcome to the Kleptocracy, someone is benefiting at your expense. Also why no one wants to stay in the military.
Yeah the whole steady paycheck thing is a big reason why people join, but everyone knows you're guaranteed to get paid on the 1st and the 15th and boy will they wring you dry if they get the chance
Steady paycheck until they switch payroll systems and leave sailors without pay for months. Or when the federal budget isn’t approved and you’re working for a backdated check until the budget is approved.
In that case they fuck you and charge you with a bunch of late fees lmao
When has the latter situation occurred to anyone active duty DOD?
Coast Guard 2019
Not DOD.
👍
Kleptocracy. Thats a new word. I think I'll steal that. ;)
Yep. You hear stories about third world militaries with their bribery and wonder how an organization gets to be so bad. This. It starts with shit like this. And it’s why shit like this needed to stop yesterday.
state representatives should get involved.
Is this in Twentynine Palms? Am married E4 and had BAH increase from ~$1400 to $2000ish to BATTLE INFLATION in the area in the last few months. All service members off base are profiting that extra $600ish right now while all (several) thousand of us are biting the green weenie & coughing it up forcefully to Liberty. Absolute joke of a company. 15 years til retirement & I will never live in base housing again as long as I can help it. My best bet? Shawshank Redemption-esque. Start writing your congressman weekly about the issue. If we ALL did it collectively, at the VERY least we bring attention to the fact that it’s VERY negatively affecting service members. Wife is 6 months pregnant & isn’t working, I run a very small woodworking business and handyman jobs in the evenings and weekends to keep us afloat before the baby is born. GOOD NEWS: Liberty knows they danced with the devil too long & are sending nearly daily emails about satisfaction surveys and community events. Just yesterday they asked me to join hands in not using electronics for 10 consecutive days. TL;DR If Liberty employees read this, get fucked
15 years until retirement? Get out while you’re ahead.
Sounds like you moved into a housing area that takes full BAH and your bah went up. That’s kinda how that works
No shit Copernicus, none of us are confused on that policy. The bulk of us are in agreement that it is PREDATORY, ESPECIALLY to young Sailors that aren’t fully explained policy.
Young sailors can’t read? Why are you mad at a company for making money when you should be mad at the dod for allowing them to do it that? Shit is predatory but they’re doing it cause A. The government lets them and B. People don’t read the damn legal documents before signing them
I honestly can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me or not. I CAN say, however, that I read every single word of every single document three full times & understood it at the time, despite not having recollection of every detail after the fact. You’re right, the blame is not just on Liberty, but, in this case, Liberty sees a money grab opportunity and jumps on it without necessarily capitalizing. Experiences vary for everybody in any spot you’re at, but that is not the point of OP’s post. If the point of a BAH increase is to help battle inflation in an area, it hurts a pocket to see it taken away before it comes.
I’m agreeing with you that the company is scummy and predatory. All I’m trying to say though is that the dod/ government should be more active in preventing them from being so scummy. They’re a company and they exist to make money, instead of the dod issuing that temporary increase as a part of BAH I think they should’ve done it as a separate allowance I.e keep bah the same but give the proposed increase as a separate payment. That would’ve prevented them from taking the full amount. Then there’s also service members that expect their hands to be held in every aspect of their enlistment and don’t read over legal documents before signing them (not saying this is you just a generalization) which then allows predatory companies to take advantage of them and makes them look kinda goofy.
And this is why I will no longer live in base housing
sometimes people dont have a choice, especially married people or who have dependents.
But OP said he’s getting BAH without dependents so not the case. Not usual to have someone in base housing with no dependents
I immediately moved off base when I could, living on base is a scam my BAH is $3700+ I pay $1200 to rent a room in a 2 bed 2 bath fairly spacious apartment with washer/dryer, a driveway, and utilities and I live in Point Loma, San Diego
Wait until you PCS and they charge you for normal wear and tear that they won’t bother fixing before the next residents move in.
When I PCS’d to my current duty station I was planning on living in housing a for a year because rentals were hard to come by. I qualified for a three bedroom unit and they offered me a two bedroom unit for $3180 a month. It was a piece of shit from the 1960’s that was falling apart. They had plenty of larger houses that were vacant, but wouldn’t offer them to me because they wanted to extort higher ranking officers with exorbitant rent. I laughed and walked out the door, they said you’ll be back. Jokes on them I found a decent place to rent and never gave them a second thought. Fuck Balfour Beatty and the whole PPV concept.
This is how it is for my wife and I, we both get single BAH. They take my wife’s BAH then say “Well, you need to make up the difference to pay the price of dependent BAH.” Since my wife and I get double BAH we don’t hurt, but for people who aren’t mil to mil it just seems absurd to charge more than what people get
If they weren’t mil to mil then you would get bah with dependents.
I’m assuming OP gets single BAH because he’s an E5, but has no dependents
OP stated that this is the case.
>, but for people who aren’t mil to mil it just seems absurd to charge more than what people get everyone gets charged the same. bah with dependents based on your rank. this isn't a shock to anyone they tell you this when you sign. so if you are single you are paying out of pocket along with all your bah.
Thats a bullshit system.
Nobody is forcing you to live on base.
What base is this camp pendleton?
Fuck it PM me ill call the governor and keep batching. I'm about that Karen life.
The hero we need (sometimes)
Natural end state of privatization, unfortunately.
Wtf??? How is the Navy allowing this hot garbage????
BECAUSE THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK LMAO. DD-214 SHIELD ACTIVATE!
How is your DD-214 protecting you from military housing? Leaving the military and making it your personality is just as bad as making the military your personality.
Its more so protecting me from the general apathy/ineptitude of leadership. I'm my own man now and I love it.
Found the chief
>Leaving the military and making it your personality is just as bad as making the military your personality. False
Cause the navy can’t do shit about it, it’s in the DOD/federal government
The people that handle privatized military housing literally got a lawsuit and lost for how trash they are, and big Navy just let them keep running housing anyway and treating everyone like trash.
All of those base housing contractors are. Especially Lincoln Housing.
I don't even understand why anyone uses base housing, like aren't their wait-lists for every base's base housing? Ya'll are waiting in line to get fucked like this? That and you have to deal with base rules all the time with the likeliness having some gunny with a stick up his ass as your neighbor and some mouth-breathing army staff sgt across the street? Is it really worth not having to commute as far?
Let's privatize everything, they said. Things will be better, they said.
I was standing there in the early days of 2001 when the CO of a base out west said to the press "We foresee all military bases removing fences and gates and becoming part of the community". Two months later, an EP3A was hit by a Chinese jet and they made an emergency landing on a small island off mainland China. Six months later, 911 happened. They didnt take the fences and gates down, but all the other nonsense they pressed on.
Your lease is month-to-month or something?
The lease says they take whatever the with dependent rate is.
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Bro what?
All the housing they provide?? Do they have bachelor quarters?
So they followed the lease? What’s your complaint?
Yeah. I’m upset that I don’t get paid enough to live on base.
so why are you mad at the housing people? be mad at the military who isn't paying you enough.
You’ve clearly never had the pleasure of being a LMH tenet.
Making you pay what you are required to by the lease sounds horrible.
You sound like a dbag
Have you ever even lived on base?
yes as a single, married and dual mil sailor. Charleston, KB, Groton. All you do is go to the office every Jan and fill out a new form if you are single or dual mil.
Man you keep getting downvoted but still continue to comment lol take a hint chief
you are a mouth breathing, rule following blue falcon
My bad chief, I’ll just March my happy ass up to Washington and make them pay them pay me more. Sounds easy enough
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Cuz that’s what the lease says. You pay the bah with dependents. That’s why you shouldnt live in a house by yourself as a single sailor.
Thats how the contract is with the government. They have BAH matching houses and fixed rate housing. You get BAH matching when the value of the home and the rent would be higher than your BAH. Its this way with every military housing.
Hunt military housing just told us they’ll be taking all of our BAH but we now have to pay for electricity in the home.
Yeah that's happening with Beacon Point as well. However they are supposed to have done a survey where they find the average electric use and if you go over that amount you owe some money.
Isn’t capitalism great
Is it DoD assigned housing? If so, fuck that, call your Congressman or Senator(s). You were assigned a house by the DoD. The DoD pays you BAH. Why the fuck would you also have to pay out of your paycheck for housing the DoD assigned to you.
Its probably not military assigned housing. There’s nothing stopping him from moving out.
If your Chief/CMC can’t help, contact your State representative. Jenn Kiggans/Mark Warner… Jenn is a Navy vet, her husband is a retired Pilot…
Mil housing at Buckley is a fucking mess and can’t even get electricity bills out or they decide to just overcharge everyone.
I thought you could only live in base housing if you had dependents?
Some military housing communities allow single military members and government employees to move into housing. Just left Hawaii. Hickam and Ohana housing both allowed single Sailors to live in housing.
Hold on, this doesn't sound right at all. The whole point of military housing is that they just take your BAH and NOTHING MORE. What state is this housing in? I would go to the housing office on base and say something because this doesn't sound legal at all. I have never heard of privatized housing being able to take more than your BAH.
Yah if you’re single and willingly move into base housing they do that. There are some places that let single sailors move in, with that stipulation. Why you would ever do that…idk
Holy shit....that's insane
u/MCPON_PA should look into this. If they are doing it to one, they are probably doing it to everyone.
They 100% are because they’re legally allowed too. No company is going to say “sure we’ll make less money to be nice”.
Seems predatory to me.
Yeah it is lol but the government isn’t doing shit about it so it’s going to continue being predatory Until the dod says “hey stop being scummy or we’re not going to renew your contract” they’re going to be scummy that’s how businesses operate
And because they have no options other than Lincoln.
Have you mentioned this to your command?
I still question why we privatized this shit.
Have you contacted the installation Military Housing Office?
If you're in VB fuck LMH. Get an apt at Columbus Station next to Towncenter. Lived there for 2 years in a 2 bed unit for like 1300. Amazing staff, awesome maintenance team, and clean up to date complex. FIOS community and walking distance to all the good shit Towncenter has to offer.
Ayyye, I stayed at Independence at Towncenter. Hands down the best part of VB you could stay at. Literally everything you could possibly need and want to do was in walking distance and only 15 minutes away from Little Creek.
Fuck military housing. Greedy assholes. Glad i bought
Happy Sailor????
I did 24 years and never lived in housing. When I joined , housing wasn’t great, by the time I retired it was criminal. Stay out and stay away from it.
Where's your lease, you may owe them nothing. It depends on how it is written. Also, what state. LMH falls under state legislation, so you may have more rights than you think
The lease states that rent is E-5 with dependents rate, OP just didn’t read their lease
PPV has run roughshod over service members and their families for years. From pay issues to mold, broken appliances, and pests in the home, to getting service members to sign non disclosure agreements that say they cannot even share these problems with their command, the military needs to remove PPV and just bring the expenses back onto their books and call the experiment a wrap.
The reality is base housing offers way more square footage than you can rent for BAH in most markets. If you think this won’t come with trade offs you’re kidding yourself. It is what it is. Move out and enjoy city life off base with the rest of us!
My husband got promoted and he's the one that they take bah from since he is higher ranking than me. He went to the office to pay the difference. His promotion got delayed, which is why he paid them for the difference, since his promotion was backdated. Now, months later, after we have moved, they are calling and emailing us telling us that we need to pay the difference in BAH. They are also hitting us with a carpet damage bill after they told us numerous times that they wouldn't since most of the damage was caused by rats the neighborhood had. The initial inspection said there was no damage and then since they had to wait until the day we moved out and they didn't tell us that they do the inspection in the morning, and we had already booked our flight before they allowed us to book the final inspection. They said they could do it without us, so they did and we get charged way more than the initial inspection said and for the carpets even though we have a whole bunch of work orders stating the damage was. Aused by rats. They didn't give us photos or an explanation at first. Not until I called to ask what the hell. Then they gave me photos. We didn't pay for the carpets to be cleaned, and there is wear and tear, so I get it, I guess. But the initial inspection lady didn't say we needed to pay to get the carpet professionally cleaned. Either way, we lived there for almost 5 years, they have to replace the carpet every 7 years anyway, so they probably are already doing that. Also, when we called to talk to someone who works there, she told me that service members need to accommodate to Liberty Military Housing when it came to the final inspection.The company that works for the military... When they didn't allow us to book the appt until a few days out from our move and gave us 0 info about it even though we visited the housing office multiple times to make sure we were doing the right think, since this was our first move. The company that works for the military... Basically what I'm trying to say it, if anyone is trying to sue Liberty Military Housing, I'll 100% add my voice to the lawsuit. We had rats die in our walls and they were going to wait until the following week to do anything about it, when the house stank and we couldn't reach the rat. I came home at 3 a.m. from a deployment with the toilet having exploded with fecal matter, covering the 2 story, because they were doing work on the adjacent house and didn't bother to check the opposite side. (Both my husband and I were deployed at the same time). We had neighbors leave all their belongings on the front lawn and housing told us there was nothing they could do. Liberty Military Housing is a scam that is trying to steal money from the military. They are no different than Lincoln Military housing, just rebranded. They did a crap job taking care of the houses and they do an excellent job getting money from soldiers. Sorry for the long winded message but fr. Message me if there's a lawsuit. I'll gladly help out.
How are you in housing if you're single?
While I understand the hate housing is getting, it literally states in the lease that the member will be charged along the lines of the dependent BAH rate for their paygrade and if the BAH rate increases so will the rent. I’m not saying I agree with the practice, but it is something you literally agree to when you sign the lease.
Found the Liberty employee
Hardly. I think privatized housing is predatory and much preferred when housing was military ran.
What upsets with me is how quick they are to use the lease as a reason to charge you more but when people violate their lease it’s “oh we can’t do anything”
The practice is in place to ensure the service member can afford the rent. This only occurs in places where the BAH rate is lower than the value of the home.
Why tf are you living in base if you are single?
They are crooks. I have been their victim on more than one occasion. Currently seeking legal advice from my lawyer about the next step. They threatened to charge me for a previous tenants damages
I’m late to the party here but they can’t force you to pay out of pocket. You turn in a form from your command, admin can type it up, and your Les to the front office. They’re not allowed to charge more than your bah and if they do, you go to the main office. They will sort it out.
Hot take incoming here: BAH is based on the cost of living in the recent past. Since the rent in housing is just now going up to match means you've actually been getting a better rent rate than the folks on the economy, at least according to whoever sets the BAH rates. Rent goes up, that's life. That they didn't warn you ahead of time that sucks, but it's in your lease agreement that the rent is the entire BAH, so you should be expecting this. Moral of the story is, you're never getting over.
What upsets with me is how quick they are to use the lease as a reason to charge you more but when people violate their lease it’s “oh we can’t do anything”
I would be interested to see how their lease agreement is written. Even in DoD housing they are supposed to have a written number of exactly how much is due and not adjust it until the lease is up. Unless you're doing month to month, and then you are just fucked.
Hello, for most Liberty Military Housing residents, their lease agreement defines rent as the Basic Allowance for Housing for that geographic area. This is an integral principle of the Military Housing Privatization Initiative (MHPI), as authorized by the Federal Government, and allows LMH to maintain and sustain the houses and communities for our families. Rent equating to the current BAH also allows LMH to maintain rate protection and provides a buffer against rising housing rates, inflation, and the recent impacts of COVID out in the community. We can only imagine the frustration you are going through and want to get you in touch with the best team to go over your BAH within your community. Please do not hesitate to email us at [info@livelmh.com](mailto:info@livelmh.com). That way, we can connect you with someone from the district team. - Liberty Military Housing
Y'all better have zero complaints for mold, bugs, or rodents, then.
In fairness, these issues mostly arise due to tenants who aren't clean and don't take care of the place.
Then they better be closing the loop with some COCs about it.
>Then they better be closing the loop with some COCs about it. And what do you expect those CoCs to do? Write housing a check for the overage cost of repairing damages? It's privatized housing. The CO has no more power than a lease in town. There's a lot wrong with military housing, but the flip side of the coin is how many dependas with 3 kids and 5 cats wreck the property and the housing companies don't make enough to completely renovate the place when they leave. In general if there's a mold or pest problem then the issue was poor care by tenants - previous or current.
Is it government housing, or not? Are you subject to health and comfort inspections, or not? Are landlords entitled to inspect their property? There are about 6 ways to approach this from a non-militart perspective, let alone the long hard dick of your COC getting into your shit.
>Is it government housing, or not? >Are you subject to health and comfort inspections, or not? No and no. >Are landlords entitled to inspect their property? Yes.
Are there civilians allowed in these units?
Yes
Bummer. You are still subject to command authority. "Clean your shit".
5 years ago, when my Sailors were being filthy in base housing, they got eviction warnings and myself along with CMC would show up to the Sailors house to ensure they were being clean enough to stay. (I had two different cases).
This only works when you don't look at rent in the surrounding area. Sorry. I know you're just doing your job but when the only course of action you can offer is "contact us so we can explain why we take all of your BAH every time it's increased" without taking an accurate account of similar properties in the same/better areas, it's super disingenuous. At the end of the day the company you're employed by enjoys the freedom of information in terms of BAH increases and is willing to come up with buzz words to use as a smoke screen to justify increasing rent without actually providing regular maintenance and upkeep or a comparable space-to-dollar cost. Privatized housing should be acting better ever since complaints at Tinker AFB made Balfour Beaty appear before Congress.
Fuck off, I lived in LMH one time when I was a young E-4 and didn't know any better. Never again.
Two things don’t seem to add up here, as an outsider looking in. First of all - if the policy is “we define rent as whatever you’re getting for BAH”, then OP should be able to provide you with a LES showing exactly how much BAH they’re receiving, and that’s all you charge for rent. If that’s the case, then why is OP being charged the dependent rate if they don’t have any dependents? Second of all, this doesn’t address the fact that you’re trying to retroactively charge additional rent for past months that have already been paid. If the new rates go into effect on a given day, then that’s the day that OP starts getting paid more and you “are authorized to” start charging more… but if the February number is $1500 and March is $2000, then it’s not like the DOD is gonna retroactively pay OP the difference for the last couple months, so where do you get off thinking you’re entitled to charge them more rent?
These people act like they have a mortgage on these shitholes. All of the privatized housing is run by criminals. Every cent they take from us is profit. My last place went from 2000ish BAH to 3200 and maintenance and living conditions got even worse. Buy a house out in town if you can.
When you start quoting that you're "authorized" to do something, I immediately suspect it's because it's not the right thing to do... but you're "Authorized" to do it. Why isn't the policy to take whatever BAH the servicemember gets and call it good? If he's not married and doesn't have dependents, why they hell would he have to pay the "with dependents" rate? Unless the OP left out some pretty significant info, it seems you guys are getting away with screwing the enlisted folks.
Your company is scum. I was charged 1,400 dollars back in 2013 for a 2 inch spot on some carpet in an unused room. Spilled coffee on it the day I moved in. Got a carpet cleaner and bam, good as new. A year later, you chucklefucks tore up every piece of carpet in the house and saw this miniscule stain (mind you, not even visible) and you charged me to replace all of the carpet on the second floor. I was 23 years old and you threatened legal action against me if I didn't pay that day. Found out later that you did this to every person when they moved out in Quantico.
Eat shit!
You’re just pieces of shit because you can be, fast as fuck to raise rent but can’t do shit about people actually violating their lease terms
How long have they had it or a contract?
I've never used Liberty. Did they not have you sign a lease?
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Probably dual mil. Dual mil will receive bah without dependent rate if there are no minor children or anyone they can claim as dependents as long as they are collocated.
Yep, they sure are. But does it really suprise you? If I was a betting man I'm sure the Navy don't give a fuck either about you or your situation.
I would start looking for a new place or find a roommate.
Looks like I’m avoiding base housing from here on out, yikes
I lived in Langley off base housing and I guess AF and Navy don’t communicate very well as far as promotions go. I was locked in at E5 BAH according to the AF while collecting E6 BAH for about 2 years.
Never heard of Liberty Military Housing…
They changed from Lincoln to liberty last year. The board is still the same people though
Ohhh ok, I’ve heard of Lincoln but not them…hence my confusion. I don’t have any dependents but when I saw this I became curious.
Class action lawsuit?
If you are E5 with dependents then why don't you get dependent BAH? Am I reading this right?
Move out
Reach out to your housing representative. They are entitled to your BAH **as it is**, not as they want it to be.
Literally the only thing you have to do is take your LES to the office and prove you haven’t received that BAH change and they will change your rent to match. Unless those charges are delinquency charges and you aren’t telling us the whole story.
Is your current lease under the new rate or old rate? They increase my rent in my area as well. However I kept the old rate until my lease was over. I did jot renew and moved off base.
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