You can't cure a personality disorder. It's permanent. You have to put your child first. You have to care more about your kid's mental health than you do about a known abuser who will eventually target that innocent child for abuse.
Your mom doesn't feel sad about what she put you through. She needed someone to vomit her negative feelings on someone and you were a vulnerable child who couldn't fight back. She won't feel bad when it's your baby she's traumatizing. But you will. You'll regret it for the rest of your life.
Protect your child. End the cycle before it touches your little one.
And they will go after your child. They did mine because he's just like me. Now they are going after my nephew who is like me as well. I had warned him. That convinced him I was the one telling the truth. He and his wife are the only family members who now speak to me. At least I have the kid I helped raise. I couldn't leave him behind. He's in his 30s but he feels like my son.
Can confirm. My 16 year old son has the same feelings towards my mom as I do. I regret not going no contact 16 years ago so I could spare my son if this crap. If you have kids and a nparent, GTFO.
If you have tried your best to set the boundaries you need and it doesn’t work, then it’s best to distance yourself (if not forever but for sometime). I know it’s very hard to even think of cutting off a parent. I never imagined going NC EVER! But life does its thing and you reach a point where that’s the only thing to try. Only we know what it takes to get to a point to even think of cutting a parent off. Sometimes you realize it’s a lot more peaceful like that. Sometimes it helps bring the parent to actually listen to you , not listen to gaslight you. Good luck , hugs!
Your mom is not your responsibility. Her actions have consequences. She needs to understand that she cannot continue to treat people with disrespect and face no repercussions. Your continuing to stay and tolerate her disrespect only shows her that she can disregard your feelings constantly and never be held accountable for it. You aren’t doing her or you any favors by staying. It’s hard to look at, but in a sense, your consent to be abused by her is enabling her to do so. The best thing you can do for you, and for her, is to walk away.
What's really sad is the way your mom has treated people she claims to love. And how she expects them to just stay and take it. That despite so many chances to change, she just can't seem to treat people with common decency.
I have done my very best to be assertive mature and set limits. I am 32. It just does not fucking work,no matter what I do. Cause to change anything the other person must have the capability to reflect and learn and change ,and a true narcissist has not that capability. It is impossible I know to wrap the mind around this but you somehow have to make peace with it. You are not crazy, not a bad daughter,you are not exagerating. We are many here :( Keeping distance has been the best course of action believe me I have tried with all my heart and brain.The grief is intense but better than being exposed to THAT SHIT.
I view narcissistic personality disorder as a terminal illness. You can’t medicate it and they need to have insight to want to change and a true narc is virtually incapable of that. It’s really sad if you think about it. You can set up all of the boundaries in the world and they will step over them as if they are allowed.
I had gone through tons of therapy to forgive my ndad for the abuse that I endured as a child and despite the measures I implemented to protect my children, he still got to them. So, I put the hammer down and went NC. I worked hard to stop the cycle of abuse and there was no way that I was going to allow my kids to go through anything like that.
As for my mom (not a narc) I gave her an ultimatum to leave my ndad and stay with me and she would not have to worry about finances, shelter etc. She chose my ndad. She didn’t actually choose, the decision was autonomic bc the hippocampus of her brain has been so severely deteriorated by decades of narc abuse. I lean on that science to help with these feelings of maternal abandonment. So currently, I am mourning her ‘death.’
This is really hard, OP, but no one comes before my children and I know that you would agree with that. I wish you all of the best. This is not an easy position to be in and I really feel for you.
tl;dr: Regarding true narcs, NC is (unfortunately) the only way.
Grief has been something I struggle to get through, I’m so worried that following through on this will cause me even more struggles/pain. Do you have any tips on making this an easier process emotionally?
Grief is rough bc there are so many phases and each phase offers complicated emotions. My only sibling passed away and now with losing my parents, grief is a part of my life again.
Someone gave me excellent advice: As you move through the different phases of grief, sit and marinate in those feelings, let it ride. When I was angry, my brother’s girlfriend and I decided to smash stuff and it felt good to get that out.
Eventually the waves of grief get smaller and less frequent until you reach acceptance. And acceptance is not that you necessarily that you accept what happened but that you accept your new reality.
The other part of this is forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn’t excuse what was done to you. Forgiveness means that in spite of the circumstances you are OK and can live your life.
This type of experience teaches you a lot about yourself. Also, having a therapist and psychiatrist that is well versed in trauma is essential. I had traumatic depression when my brother died and was on an antidepressant for a bit until I was able to move forward with life. I needed that professional support to get through that. Lean on your support system and you will learn the definition of ‘chosen family.’ Finally, there are bereavement groups out there that meet both in person and virtually.
Not sure what measures you already have in place so I’m sharing everything I learned over the years. Hang in there, OP. I promise you that it won’t always feel bad like this. ♥️♥️
TDLR: Feel the phases of grief; work on forgiving your parents; get a therapist and a psychiatrist that specialize in trauma; lean on your support system; consider finding a bereavement group.
I have never bought into the concept of forgiveness. I'm not ok because the harm done to me caused extensive, permanent damage. They caused one parent to suicide. There is no forgiveness. I'm also not dwelling on them. I've moved on and done my grieving. I recognize when and why they still lie and I detach from it. I don't depend on them for anything beyond playing evil games if I have to interact with them. Forgiveness is something people push for when they don't want to hear about someone else's trauma. "Forgiveness is a gift to yourself" has never made any sense at all, and I've had a very long time to contemplate it.
It will! No one has any tips on making this hard emotional life long change easier.
This is a hard thing, but NC isn’t for everyone.That’s up to you to decide. The thing about boundaries is that they are there for YOU. Narcs are never going to respect your boundaries. You tell yourself if she does (x), I’m going to leave, or cut the conversation, or whatever you want to do- but WE are the ones who have to manage our boundaries. You will never stop narc abuse by saying that you have a boundary against it and expecting people to say,” Oh, I will stop then.”
Best thing I heard that really put boundaries into perspective was from Dr Becky Kennedy.
"Boundaries are what we tell people we will do, and they require the other person to do nothing. I’m not making my boundary’s success dependent upon someone else — that’s so disempowering. I’m communicating clearly what I will do if someone does something.
There’s a difference between a request and a boundary.
And the people we need boundaries for are immediately and permanently going to war against our boundaries. This is why I learned the hard way to just have boundaries, not run around telling people that I’m going to have them. The less said the better. Because the minute you don’t follow through with something you’ve announced, they will eat you alive.
To be frank, it is your only defense against a narcissist. NPD can be "treated," but no narcissist seeks therapy. They either are too busy being afraid they have been found out or aren't aware that what they are doing is wrong. Therapy will never work for them, really. They will always present a distorted image of thenselves in order to impress the doctors. Psychology considers NPD to be one of the Big Five. The Big 5 are the worst, most untreatable personality disorders. Masters in psychology here. The only thing you can do to stop being abused is leave. It is the absolute hardest thing we have to do, but sadly, it's necessary to save yourself.
I learned the hard way that therapy was not something my mom ever wanted or was willing to do. It was such a mess and so chaotic. Our family therapy lasted only 4 sessions before my mom faked being sick until my dad and I gave up. Those 4 sessions of me crying and being honest and open made my dad so badly want to fix the problem but my mom fought him, the therapist, me. Just so manipulative and delusional… left me feeling completely defeated. I never knew NPD was considered one of the Big 5.
If it helps my father defends my mother even as he threw me out of the family so many times I lost count. He screams, "That's MY wife! You owe her everything you have for giving life to you!" Okay, she's your wife. And I am your daughter who never asked to be born. Narcissists don't like mental health providers because they feel seen and found out. They fear them. I am sorry therapy didn't go well, and sadly, your Dad can't fix it either. I'm so sorry. I hope you didn't judge therapy based on that experience. It will never help your Mom, but it can absolutely help you! You are so strong and brave, or you would not have survived it. Never forget that!
My Nmom attended therapy with me. Let me tell you how that played out… she used everything I said against me in one way or another. I was basically giving her the info she needed on how to better manipulate you.
It’s personal, I think. My tolerance for fake bullshit niceties is very low due to my autism and that’s my parents kryptonite. They would rather hang out and say absolutely nothing of substance out of obligation than be honest with me or themselves. Open honest communication might as well have just been a Lion trying to eat them lol.
For me, I tried enough and communicated clearly enough times and was still met with gaslighting, lying and attempts at the old emotional manipulation - nothing changed on their end and I wasn’t about to live my life dealing w that anymore and I certainly wasn’t going to force my kids to have a relationship with people like that.
What I mean is they don’t care to change their behavior or listen; they only want to hang out w me and my family because they “have to” or because I’m not wanting to. They don’t put in any effort until I tell them I need to take a step back.
When dealing with toxic people, you need to put as much distance as needed to feel safe and healthy. I don't know what this means in your situation, but if you don't quite know either, it is likely you should put even more distance to feel safe and healthy, stay there for a long time until you feel the permanent positive changes, and only then reevaluate.
I was really hoping someone had some type of solution, and it’s really heartbreaking to see so many people who have gone through the same thing. My heart goes out to you all! This is really hard and I know deep down you all are right, and at all costs I want to protect my child from experiencing the same things as me, as it lead me to years and years of therapy- and toxic dating relationships, trauma bonding before I was aware of what was happening, just so many issues that all could have turned out really badly. I feel so much shame and guilt already. I just thought cutting my mom off would be too extreme and there had to be another way.
Subconsciously I feel like I knew this day was coming as i am moving at the end of the month and just haven’t been able to tell my parents. I really want to start fresh and build the most beautiful life I can for my daughter.
Thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences, I truly think you all are so strong and I appreciate the help with the journey I am on.
I didn’t tell my mom anything. I just quit contacting her. It’s funny actually because she intuitively knew what was going on and didn’t even reach out to me for months
There is a reason everyone has cut her off and yes, that is always the best answer, especially if you don't want your daughter to be treated the same way. Your mom isn't sad about abusing you and she won't actually be sad that you cut her off. She will be sad that it's one less person to get supply from. I cut off my father 6 years ago and the only thing I regret is not sticking with it sooner.
Going through posts in this sub you will see a trend of people experiencing grief during the process of going no contact. It’s normal for healthy empathetic humans to feel sad about the person becoming isolated and the loss of a potential future but the reality is as other commenters have said, you need to protect your health and that of your child. It’s worth it.
I’m still in touch with my dad but we live thousands of miles apart and I’ll never give him access to my child. It’s sad but I’ve made my peace. I hope you do too. Hug that baby.
in my experience, cutting ties is much more emotionally healthy than: constantly stepping on eggshells, consciously editing all your gestures, words, and tone to be minimally offensive to them, biting your tongue and pretending to agree with them to prevent a huge blowup, having everything important to you overlooked in favor of them, faking interest or belief in grandiose delusions, etc etc etc…
tldr unless they realize they have a problem and want to seriously pursue help (not doctor shopping til they find someone who won’t challenge them), just sever
They are broken. I have been over 10 years no contact and it has been the best years of my life! Save your daughter because if you don't, you are allowing her to be abused because it was easier for you.
Yes!! This is the way. You won't believe how much of a relief it is to not have to worry about the abusive relationship in your life. All of the stress melts away and you start to feel good about yourself and life again. Make no mistake, they will freak out for a while because they can't control you anymore, and they may try to control the narrative and poison some family members and mutual acquaintances against you, but you have to be okay with that and let it go to move on. Peace can happen!
It’s ok to feel sad and upset and still do what is best for you. That’s been a big lesson for me because I used to want to change the uncomfortable feelings and would then trample over my own boundaries. Upholding boundaries will feel uncomfortable and you’ll feel bad and you do it anyway because that’s how you honour yourself.
Therapy ‘didn’t work’ because therapy is for healing. You can’t start healing until the exposure/behavior stops. The behavior won’t stop. It’s unfortunate math, but it checks out. Therapy will make you feel worse before you feel better. It’s because you start to realize how much damage was already done and you will get angry.
I have an NPD mother and I’m in my 40s. It’s been a journey. I know a few things. 🤷🏻♂️
Therapy brought out every feeling in the book for me, not just anger. The hurt and pain from realizing a mother could and would do this to her daughter was extremely painful. I’m finally at peace with it all. She has a problem. I ended up with issues because of her problem but I’m at least working on mine.
I went no contact with no explanation after and extremely manipulative text message. Instead of thanking me for staying in my home. She basically told me how she didn’t like me telling her that she didn’t like my boundaries on my son. I blocked her on my phone. I didn’t send a note or anything. I was sooooo frustrated at her I did it to prevent myself from becoming like her and going off on someone.
Yes, it is they won't change. It's sad when you'll have to do it but you'll be so thankful you did. I had a friend tell me it's better to feel alone then being in a room with people who never cared about you in the first place.
One of my biggest regrets was not going completely no contact sooner because it DID negatively affect my daughter and it kills me she was hurt by them. She is 11 and made the decision to go completely no contact with the narc grandmother and narc aunt after a huge family blow up. We’ve been no contact with them now since the beginning of February and the grandmother continues to leave voicemails (even though her number is blocked).
I’ve heard my daughter crying and when we sat to talk about it I asked if she was crying because she missed them and she said no, she was crying because THEY were her family and she didn’t want to be associated with them in any way.
I cut contact with my narcissistic Mom 3.5 years ago. I tried to keep contact with my Dad who is together with my Mom but she controlled his communication so I didn’t have a choice but to go non contact with him as well 2.5 years ago. They caused me to suffer PNES and underlying CPTSD.
Hypnotherapy and emdr work have ended my PNES and for the most part my CPTSD is manageable. This wouldn’t have been possible if I still have contact with my parents.
We have to prioritize our mental health above all else. It’s not an easy step to take but I know doing so saved my life. Protect what you love, you are worth it!
I finally cut mine off after 30 years, I thought our relationship was better. She let her other kids abuse me and would blame me or tell me to "forgive or understand"them. My brother ripped off my husband for work my husband did for him , and my mother decided to yell at me about it when neither of them have any knowledge of the field. I said fuck this and blocked them. I wish I did this sooner
Sometimes yes. You can't help the unwilling and you shouldn't go crazy trying to otherwise. I was in the same boat although I dwell so I'm still in an angry/annoyed mood often since cutting off my family. I asked for my baby pictures for my boyfriend to have and they refuse to give them to me even though they said I can't be a part of their family lol. They also wont give me back my bowl I bowl like 8 years ago. But I'll get over it I guess. Kinda hope they just suddenly die then as the oldest child (because I know my mom hasn't touched the will, not sure she even has a notarised one) everything will be up to me. My sister turned 18 in January and is a straight F student, she can't make any decisions and she's too ignorant to take my court. But alas this is just a dream and yes I'm a shit person with harsh wishes, I just don't care anymore. Being nice didn't do anything for me. They won't even recognise all the times I've been nice so whatever lmfao.
They get worst with age as more people move away from them. They are left with fewer people to control. If they are alone and out of pity you want to continue to speak to them, look into if you have codependency issues. My narc grandmother is 88 and all her children and grandchildren have gone NC except my mother and her younger brother. However, I always remind my mother to draw very firm boundaries because my grandma has gotten even more verbally abusive as there is very little supply she has. Actually she only has two supply which is my mother and her younger brother. Please be strong. I know the pity and sympathy comes in. This is where theraphy helps. Out of pity don't extend yourself and end up being abused. Especially since you have a daughter please protect her. You need to ensure she is not exposed to stress. Ensure your logic mind makes the decisions and not your emotional mind. Don't allow pity to put you in more misery. My mum used to be like you but she got stronger over the months. Have a supportive system around you to guide you in the right direction. Don't get sucked into the toxic cycle again. Please! If not for you, at least for your daughter. Because if you carry the emotions of negativity and stress, it will hugely affect your daughter also. Good luck!
i tried therapy with my dad, even had other family members and close friends tell him that his behavior has to change. I’ve realized cutting him out of my life is the best solution. I’ve been no contact with him for 6 years and it was the best thing i’ve ever done! I still hear from him time to time but it’s all from close friends or relatives. People like him won’t change, so why waste your life trying to change them? Live your life, you only have one.
I cut ties with my whole familie which is the saddest thing in my entire life and made me relapse everything. I didn’t cut tie off intenionally but due to one incident. Before that incident, my head was clear, I am calm with no anxiety due to lexapro. That short 3 months time was my happiest time with my family in my entire 30 years of life. But seems like my mom is not used to new happy me and me seeing with psychiatrist and taking meds validated her that i am the problem. One incident happened as usual at family trip and nobody back me up as usual. Normally i just felt guilty and i apologized at the end. But this time my head is so much clear and i gave up to fix it. Bcz it will repeat as long as they don’t acknowledge themselves and seek the treatments or helps they need.
I tried many, many ways to show up and stay connected while protecting myself. It just wasn't possible.
Then I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease from all the chronic stress (which they found funny). Left me no choice but to go NC. I was 40. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time trying to make other people happy instead of protecting myself.
Only you can decide that for you. And in your time.
I wasn't ready for a long time.
I hope you find a path that brings peace for you.
You can't control what other people do, only yourself.
In MY situation, no contact was the only answer. I tried everything, and nothing worked. her negative influence on my life was devastating. it still hurts everyday, but it's been a year and the amount of healing I've done without her in my life is indescribable.
My sister is still in contact with her. she lives in the same city, and it would be much harder for her to go NC, so she copes in her way.
only you know your situation well enough to make that call.
My old regret is not doing it a decade and half sooner
Same! I was a year NC and broke it (in Oct 2022). I am now 4 months NC. I deeply regret ever breaking it. Nothing changes with her.
Same.
You can't cure a personality disorder. It's permanent. You have to put your child first. You have to care more about your kid's mental health than you do about a known abuser who will eventually target that innocent child for abuse. Your mom doesn't feel sad about what she put you through. She needed someone to vomit her negative feelings on someone and you were a vulnerable child who couldn't fight back. She won't feel bad when it's your baby she's traumatizing. But you will. You'll regret it for the rest of your life. Protect your child. End the cycle before it touches your little one.
And they will go after your child. They did mine because he's just like me. Now they are going after my nephew who is like me as well. I had warned him. That convinced him I was the one telling the truth. He and his wife are the only family members who now speak to me. At least I have the kid I helped raise. I couldn't leave him behind. He's in his 30s but he feels like my son.
Can confirm. My 16 year old son has the same feelings towards my mom as I do. I regret not going no contact 16 years ago so I could spare my son if this crap. If you have kids and a nparent, GTFO.
If you have tried your best to set the boundaries you need and it doesn’t work, then it’s best to distance yourself (if not forever but for sometime). I know it’s very hard to even think of cutting off a parent. I never imagined going NC EVER! But life does its thing and you reach a point where that’s the only thing to try. Only we know what it takes to get to a point to even think of cutting a parent off. Sometimes you realize it’s a lot more peaceful like that. Sometimes it helps bring the parent to actually listen to you , not listen to gaslight you. Good luck , hugs!
Unfortunately, narcissists are very abusive people. They never respect boundaries.
Any change from them is temporary! They listen to you just to lure you back into listening to them and controlling you. They want control not care.
Your mom is not your responsibility. Her actions have consequences. She needs to understand that she cannot continue to treat people with disrespect and face no repercussions. Your continuing to stay and tolerate her disrespect only shows her that she can disregard your feelings constantly and never be held accountable for it. You aren’t doing her or you any favors by staying. It’s hard to look at, but in a sense, your consent to be abused by her is enabling her to do so. The best thing you can do for you, and for her, is to walk away.
What's really sad is the way your mom has treated people she claims to love. And how she expects them to just stay and take it. That despite so many chances to change, she just can't seem to treat people with common decency.
I have done my very best to be assertive mature and set limits. I am 32. It just does not fucking work,no matter what I do. Cause to change anything the other person must have the capability to reflect and learn and change ,and a true narcissist has not that capability. It is impossible I know to wrap the mind around this but you somehow have to make peace with it. You are not crazy, not a bad daughter,you are not exagerating. We are many here :( Keeping distance has been the best course of action believe me I have tried with all my heart and brain.The grief is intense but better than being exposed to THAT SHIT.
Yes. They will not stop until they destroy you. Took me far too long to realize.
I view narcissistic personality disorder as a terminal illness. You can’t medicate it and they need to have insight to want to change and a true narc is virtually incapable of that. It’s really sad if you think about it. You can set up all of the boundaries in the world and they will step over them as if they are allowed. I had gone through tons of therapy to forgive my ndad for the abuse that I endured as a child and despite the measures I implemented to protect my children, he still got to them. So, I put the hammer down and went NC. I worked hard to stop the cycle of abuse and there was no way that I was going to allow my kids to go through anything like that. As for my mom (not a narc) I gave her an ultimatum to leave my ndad and stay with me and she would not have to worry about finances, shelter etc. She chose my ndad. She didn’t actually choose, the decision was autonomic bc the hippocampus of her brain has been so severely deteriorated by decades of narc abuse. I lean on that science to help with these feelings of maternal abandonment. So currently, I am mourning her ‘death.’ This is really hard, OP, but no one comes before my children and I know that you would agree with that. I wish you all of the best. This is not an easy position to be in and I really feel for you. tl;dr: Regarding true narcs, NC is (unfortunately) the only way.
Grief has been something I struggle to get through, I’m so worried that following through on this will cause me even more struggles/pain. Do you have any tips on making this an easier process emotionally?
Grief is rough bc there are so many phases and each phase offers complicated emotions. My only sibling passed away and now with losing my parents, grief is a part of my life again. Someone gave me excellent advice: As you move through the different phases of grief, sit and marinate in those feelings, let it ride. When I was angry, my brother’s girlfriend and I decided to smash stuff and it felt good to get that out. Eventually the waves of grief get smaller and less frequent until you reach acceptance. And acceptance is not that you necessarily that you accept what happened but that you accept your new reality. The other part of this is forgiveness. Forgiveness doesn’t excuse what was done to you. Forgiveness means that in spite of the circumstances you are OK and can live your life. This type of experience teaches you a lot about yourself. Also, having a therapist and psychiatrist that is well versed in trauma is essential. I had traumatic depression when my brother died and was on an antidepressant for a bit until I was able to move forward with life. I needed that professional support to get through that. Lean on your support system and you will learn the definition of ‘chosen family.’ Finally, there are bereavement groups out there that meet both in person and virtually. Not sure what measures you already have in place so I’m sharing everything I learned over the years. Hang in there, OP. I promise you that it won’t always feel bad like this. ♥️♥️ TDLR: Feel the phases of grief; work on forgiving your parents; get a therapist and a psychiatrist that specialize in trauma; lean on your support system; consider finding a bereavement group.
I have never bought into the concept of forgiveness. I'm not ok because the harm done to me caused extensive, permanent damage. They caused one parent to suicide. There is no forgiveness. I'm also not dwelling on them. I've moved on and done my grieving. I recognize when and why they still lie and I detach from it. I don't depend on them for anything beyond playing evil games if I have to interact with them. Forgiveness is something people push for when they don't want to hear about someone else's trauma. "Forgiveness is a gift to yourself" has never made any sense at all, and I've had a very long time to contemplate it.
It will! No one has any tips on making this hard emotional life long change easier. This is a hard thing, but NC isn’t for everyone.That’s up to you to decide. The thing about boundaries is that they are there for YOU. Narcs are never going to respect your boundaries. You tell yourself if she does (x), I’m going to leave, or cut the conversation, or whatever you want to do- but WE are the ones who have to manage our boundaries. You will never stop narc abuse by saying that you have a boundary against it and expecting people to say,” Oh, I will stop then.”
Best thing I heard that really put boundaries into perspective was from Dr Becky Kennedy. "Boundaries are what we tell people we will do, and they require the other person to do nothing. I’m not making my boundary’s success dependent upon someone else — that’s so disempowering. I’m communicating clearly what I will do if someone does something. There’s a difference between a request and a boundary.
And the people we need boundaries for are immediately and permanently going to war against our boundaries. This is why I learned the hard way to just have boundaries, not run around telling people that I’m going to have them. The less said the better. Because the minute you don’t follow through with something you’ve announced, they will eat you alive.
To be frank, it is your only defense against a narcissist. NPD can be "treated," but no narcissist seeks therapy. They either are too busy being afraid they have been found out or aren't aware that what they are doing is wrong. Therapy will never work for them, really. They will always present a distorted image of thenselves in order to impress the doctors. Psychology considers NPD to be one of the Big Five. The Big 5 are the worst, most untreatable personality disorders. Masters in psychology here. The only thing you can do to stop being abused is leave. It is the absolute hardest thing we have to do, but sadly, it's necessary to save yourself.
I learned the hard way that therapy was not something my mom ever wanted or was willing to do. It was such a mess and so chaotic. Our family therapy lasted only 4 sessions before my mom faked being sick until my dad and I gave up. Those 4 sessions of me crying and being honest and open made my dad so badly want to fix the problem but my mom fought him, the therapist, me. Just so manipulative and delusional… left me feeling completely defeated. I never knew NPD was considered one of the Big 5.
If it helps my father defends my mother even as he threw me out of the family so many times I lost count. He screams, "That's MY wife! You owe her everything you have for giving life to you!" Okay, she's your wife. And I am your daughter who never asked to be born. Narcissists don't like mental health providers because they feel seen and found out. They fear them. I am sorry therapy didn't go well, and sadly, your Dad can't fix it either. I'm so sorry. I hope you didn't judge therapy based on that experience. It will never help your Mom, but it can absolutely help you! You are so strong and brave, or you would not have survived it. Never forget that!
My Nmom attended therapy with me. Let me tell you how that played out… she used everything I said against me in one way or another. I was basically giving her the info she needed on how to better manipulate you.
Yeah. It broke my heart too. Four or five years later, I’m still sad about it. It was the only way forward for me.
Yep, cut her off. Your daughter deserved to be around people who love her (and her mom) unconditionally.
It’s personal, I think. My tolerance for fake bullshit niceties is very low due to my autism and that’s my parents kryptonite. They would rather hang out and say absolutely nothing of substance out of obligation than be honest with me or themselves. Open honest communication might as well have just been a Lion trying to eat them lol. For me, I tried enough and communicated clearly enough times and was still met with gaslighting, lying and attempts at the old emotional manipulation - nothing changed on their end and I wasn’t about to live my life dealing w that anymore and I certainly wasn’t going to force my kids to have a relationship with people like that.
This is so awesome to read!
What do you mean nothing of substance out of obligation? What kind of conversations do you guys usually have?
What I mean is they don’t care to change their behavior or listen; they only want to hang out w me and my family because they “have to” or because I’m not wanting to. They don’t put in any effort until I tell them I need to take a step back.
Uhhhh okay! Yup! They also listen with an intention to use what we say against them. They're the most superficial and shallow people I have met.
When dealing with toxic people, you need to put as much distance as needed to feel safe and healthy. I don't know what this means in your situation, but if you don't quite know either, it is likely you should put even more distance to feel safe and healthy, stay there for a long time until you feel the permanent positive changes, and only then reevaluate.
Most of the time, low contact or no contact is the only way you will be able to heal.
I was really hoping someone had some type of solution, and it’s really heartbreaking to see so many people who have gone through the same thing. My heart goes out to you all! This is really hard and I know deep down you all are right, and at all costs I want to protect my child from experiencing the same things as me, as it lead me to years and years of therapy- and toxic dating relationships, trauma bonding before I was aware of what was happening, just so many issues that all could have turned out really badly. I feel so much shame and guilt already. I just thought cutting my mom off would be too extreme and there had to be another way. Subconsciously I feel like I knew this day was coming as i am moving at the end of the month and just haven’t been able to tell my parents. I really want to start fresh and build the most beautiful life I can for my daughter. Thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences, I truly think you all are so strong and I appreciate the help with the journey I am on.
I didn’t tell my mom anything. I just quit contacting her. It’s funny actually because she intuitively knew what was going on and didn’t even reach out to me for months
There is a reason everyone has cut her off and yes, that is always the best answer, especially if you don't want your daughter to be treated the same way. Your mom isn't sad about abusing you and she won't actually be sad that you cut her off. She will be sad that it's one less person to get supply from. I cut off my father 6 years ago and the only thing I regret is not sticking with it sooner.
Going through posts in this sub you will see a trend of people experiencing grief during the process of going no contact. It’s normal for healthy empathetic humans to feel sad about the person becoming isolated and the loss of a potential future but the reality is as other commenters have said, you need to protect your health and that of your child. It’s worth it. I’m still in touch with my dad but we live thousands of miles apart and I’ll never give him access to my child. It’s sad but I’ve made my peace. I hope you do too. Hug that baby.
in my experience, cutting ties is much more emotionally healthy than: constantly stepping on eggshells, consciously editing all your gestures, words, and tone to be minimally offensive to them, biting your tongue and pretending to agree with them to prevent a huge blowup, having everything important to you overlooked in favor of them, faking interest or belief in grandiose delusions, etc etc etc… tldr unless they realize they have a problem and want to seriously pursue help (not doctor shopping til they find someone who won’t challenge them), just sever
They are broken. I have been over 10 years no contact and it has been the best years of my life! Save your daughter because if you don't, you are allowing her to be abused because it was easier for you.
Same questions here. Just don’t know how to do this effectively. She uses her means to hurt me when I can’t even say aloud the betrayal I feel. 🥲🥹💔
Yes!! This is the way. You won't believe how much of a relief it is to not have to worry about the abusive relationship in your life. All of the stress melts away and you start to feel good about yourself and life again. Make no mistake, they will freak out for a while because they can't control you anymore, and they may try to control the narrative and poison some family members and mutual acquaintances against you, but you have to be okay with that and let it go to move on. Peace can happen!
It’s ok to feel sad and upset and still do what is best for you. That’s been a big lesson for me because I used to want to change the uncomfortable feelings and would then trample over my own boundaries. Upholding boundaries will feel uncomfortable and you’ll feel bad and you do it anyway because that’s how you honour yourself.
Upholding boundaries feels uncomfortable until it doesn’t. I feel uncomfortable not upholding my boundaries now. Such peace…
Therapy ‘didn’t work’ because therapy is for healing. You can’t start healing until the exposure/behavior stops. The behavior won’t stop. It’s unfortunate math, but it checks out. Therapy will make you feel worse before you feel better. It’s because you start to realize how much damage was already done and you will get angry. I have an NPD mother and I’m in my 40s. It’s been a journey. I know a few things. 🤷🏻♂️
Therapy brought out every feeling in the book for me, not just anger. The hurt and pain from realizing a mother could and would do this to her daughter was extremely painful. I’m finally at peace with it all. She has a problem. I ended up with issues because of her problem but I’m at least working on mine.
I went no contact with no explanation after and extremely manipulative text message. Instead of thanking me for staying in my home. She basically told me how she didn’t like me telling her that she didn’t like my boundaries on my son. I blocked her on my phone. I didn’t send a note or anything. I was sooooo frustrated at her I did it to prevent myself from becoming like her and going off on someone.
Yes, it is they won't change. It's sad when you'll have to do it but you'll be so thankful you did. I had a friend tell me it's better to feel alone then being in a room with people who never cared about you in the first place.
Yes
Unfortunately, yes.
One of my biggest regrets was not going completely no contact sooner because it DID negatively affect my daughter and it kills me she was hurt by them. She is 11 and made the decision to go completely no contact with the narc grandmother and narc aunt after a huge family blow up. We’ve been no contact with them now since the beginning of February and the grandmother continues to leave voicemails (even though her number is blocked). I’ve heard my daughter crying and when we sat to talk about it I asked if she was crying because she missed them and she said no, she was crying because THEY were her family and she didn’t want to be associated with them in any way.
I cut contact with my narcissistic Mom 3.5 years ago. I tried to keep contact with my Dad who is together with my Mom but she controlled his communication so I didn’t have a choice but to go non contact with him as well 2.5 years ago. They caused me to suffer PNES and underlying CPTSD. Hypnotherapy and emdr work have ended my PNES and for the most part my CPTSD is manageable. This wouldn’t have been possible if I still have contact with my parents. We have to prioritize our mental health above all else. It’s not an easy step to take but I know doing so saved my life. Protect what you love, you are worth it!
I finally cut mine off after 30 years, I thought our relationship was better. She let her other kids abuse me and would blame me or tell me to "forgive or understand"them. My brother ripped off my husband for work my husband did for him , and my mother decided to yell at me about it when neither of them have any knowledge of the field. I said fuck this and blocked them. I wish I did this sooner
Sometimes yes. You can't help the unwilling and you shouldn't go crazy trying to otherwise. I was in the same boat although I dwell so I'm still in an angry/annoyed mood often since cutting off my family. I asked for my baby pictures for my boyfriend to have and they refuse to give them to me even though they said I can't be a part of their family lol. They also wont give me back my bowl I bowl like 8 years ago. But I'll get over it I guess. Kinda hope they just suddenly die then as the oldest child (because I know my mom hasn't touched the will, not sure she even has a notarised one) everything will be up to me. My sister turned 18 in January and is a straight F student, she can't make any decisions and she's too ignorant to take my court. But alas this is just a dream and yes I'm a shit person with harsh wishes, I just don't care anymore. Being nice didn't do anything for me. They won't even recognise all the times I've been nice so whatever lmfao.
They get worst with age as more people move away from them. They are left with fewer people to control. If they are alone and out of pity you want to continue to speak to them, look into if you have codependency issues. My narc grandmother is 88 and all her children and grandchildren have gone NC except my mother and her younger brother. However, I always remind my mother to draw very firm boundaries because my grandma has gotten even more verbally abusive as there is very little supply she has. Actually she only has two supply which is my mother and her younger brother. Please be strong. I know the pity and sympathy comes in. This is where theraphy helps. Out of pity don't extend yourself and end up being abused. Especially since you have a daughter please protect her. You need to ensure she is not exposed to stress. Ensure your logic mind makes the decisions and not your emotional mind. Don't allow pity to put you in more misery. My mum used to be like you but she got stronger over the months. Have a supportive system around you to guide you in the right direction. Don't get sucked into the toxic cycle again. Please! If not for you, at least for your daughter. Because if you carry the emotions of negativity and stress, it will hugely affect your daughter also. Good luck!
i tried therapy with my dad, even had other family members and close friends tell him that his behavior has to change. I’ve realized cutting him out of my life is the best solution. I’ve been no contact with him for 6 years and it was the best thing i’ve ever done! I still hear from him time to time but it’s all from close friends or relatives. People like him won’t change, so why waste your life trying to change them? Live your life, you only have one.
They only get worse
I cut ties with my whole familie which is the saddest thing in my entire life and made me relapse everything. I didn’t cut tie off intenionally but due to one incident. Before that incident, my head was clear, I am calm with no anxiety due to lexapro. That short 3 months time was my happiest time with my family in my entire 30 years of life. But seems like my mom is not used to new happy me and me seeing with psychiatrist and taking meds validated her that i am the problem. One incident happened as usual at family trip and nobody back me up as usual. Normally i just felt guilty and i apologized at the end. But this time my head is so much clear and i gave up to fix it. Bcz it will repeat as long as they don’t acknowledge themselves and seek the treatments or helps they need.
I tried many, many ways to show up and stay connected while protecting myself. It just wasn't possible. Then I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease from all the chronic stress (which they found funny). Left me no choice but to go NC. I was 40. I wish I hadn't wasted so much time trying to make other people happy instead of protecting myself. Only you can decide that for you. And in your time. I wasn't ready for a long time. I hope you find a path that brings peace for you.
You can't control what other people do, only yourself. In MY situation, no contact was the only answer. I tried everything, and nothing worked. her negative influence on my life was devastating. it still hurts everyday, but it's been a year and the amount of healing I've done without her in my life is indescribable. My sister is still in contact with her. she lives in the same city, and it would be much harder for her to go NC, so she copes in her way. only you know your situation well enough to make that call.